ESO Needs Small Scale PvP.

o_0

I play this game for the large scale PvP that was advertised. If i want smaller scale PVP, i have many other games to chose from.

jmrakasb14_ESO

I love OP's idea, this would add a lot to the game in terms of PVP, I remember the days when I used to play WoW, Arena PVP was amazingly addicting! I am sure they could implement something like this without toooooooo much problem.

Naor_Sarethi

because veteran pvp is so populated. 49 pvp has massive player amounts while veteran groups are scarce to non existent. at 8 pm on a saturday that is. so no the usual arena/ box pvp won't do any good. i love how people want to make this game into one of the games they know just because they can't adapt to a new system.

HeroOfNone

You may like to read through this suggestion on arenas, who's core idea is to add in battlegrounds and offers several mechanics and ideas to do so.

It's a long post, but there is a lot of dialog with a lot of the arguments here already discussed and some research more on possible future battlegrounds.

giff2830_ESO

Naor_Sarethi wrote: »

because veteran pvp is so populated. 49 pvp has massive player amounts while veteran groups are scarce to non existent. at 8 pm on a saturday that is. so no the usual arena/ box pvp won't do any good. i love how people want to make this game into one of the games they know just because they can't adapt to a new system.

Actually with the B2P change, I'm sure we are going to see a huge population swing. I think Daoc type battlegrounds would be a welcome thing. Let's just see how the population really goes.
I love the existing system, but level restricted battlegrounds would be great and shouldn't effect the existing system being most of us know that if you are level 20 you are just cannon fodder.

Rook_Master

Honestly, they just need to create more incentives for people to spread out around Cyrodiil.

Right now, everyone in the server stacks on top of the keep under attack because that's where all the AP is.

If there were small forts and other objectives that were meaningful, that would do a lot to help.

I mean, they can be creative, how about factions can take over the quest towns and the delves? How about small outposts that can be taken that are way out there?

The sky is the limit, yet it always comes down to zerging the same keeps over and over.

Anvos

I agree that we could use skirmishes or whatever you'd call small scale pvp, though I'd also say you could still tie it into Cyrodil by making the skirmishes count for say control of say 3 main trade routes (ADvsDC, DCvsEP, EPvsAD) into Cyrodil.

Control of trade routes would provide say a base points gain and slight discount on alliance goods.

DisgracefulMind

I just want 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, 4v4, etc, all through 12 man groups. I think that would be super fun. Of course, players will still roam around in Cyrodiil, but it would be nice to have something new to do.

Nivzruo_ESO

sarttsarttsarttub17_ESO wrote: »

Then you would destroy Cyrodiil pvp.

If small scale pvp destroys cryodiil, then it's because everyone likes small scale better then lag zerg/ run sim.. Add area, also BG/WZs

Mystikkal

sarttsarttsarttub17_ESO wrote: »

Then you would destroy Cyrodiil pvp.

Sorry, but this is always a poor argument. The overall number of PvPs in the game greatly diminishes when you dont have competitive, organized PvP because many people refuse to play a game that doesn't have that supported. The argument that people will be drawn from Cyrodill to organized play is all the more reason to implement organized play - it shows that thats what people really want to do (assuming rewards are comparable).

If you implement organized play soon, you will still have a strong enough PvP community to support both. This should be a TOP priority. There are so many people that won't play this game because there is no organized play. What do you lose by implementing it? If people leave cyrodill, it's because organized play is more fun - and therefore the overall experience is better for people. I would argue, though, that you would actually grow the world pvp base, because you will grow the overall pvp base.. and those that are now drawn to the game because you have areans/battlegrounds will also world pvp from time to time.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler

Drachenfier

Until the entire population of the game died, Warhammer had strong Realm V Realm pvp and warzone/battlefields, GW2 has strong realm vs realm pvp and has large and small scale instanced pvp....whoever mentioned Illum on SWTOR, that failed on its own merits, and had nothing to do with warzones.

technohic

Nivzruo_ESO wrote: »

sarttsarttsarttub17_ESO wrote: »

Then you would destroy Cyrodiil pvp.

If small scale pvp destroys cryodiil, then it's because everyone likes small scale better then lag zerg/ run sim.. Add area, also BG/WZs

Depends on how they do it. Everyone could love large scale battles better but if they make short, small instant matches more efficient at earning AP or PvP gear, then people have a habit of taking the path of least resistance.

That said; my big problem with small scale PvP remains in being that balance issues are more magnified the smaller you go. Once they become clear, you then begin to have clear favorites in cookie cutter builds and rude behavior toward anyone who doesn't conform from those who then take it very seriously in order to win. Then the next phase is some people will want ranked and that then becomes the focus and attitudes become even more serious and vile.


People always say they want this stuff but I only ever see a shrinking and more derogatory PvP community with it

Obscure

They already built a functioning PvP arena to demo the game at E3 2014, and something they'll only add if they feel it's warranted:

Q&A: 3v3 Arena at E3

Apparently ZOS is allergic to money. Had they implemented it I likely never would've taken a 5 month break from the game.

ader

Bump this thread. 100% agree. It would be awesome if this game implemented ANY small scale pvp ranging from 2v2, 3v3 ("arenas") all the way up to 10v10, 15v15 ("battlegrounds"). It's probably something that will come with time. I personally find small sized pvp one of the most entertaining features in a game, because that's where skills matter most.

BugCollector

Damn straight!

Tandor

Valnas wrote: »

queue's in the last week have exceeded 100 during peak hours, i saw 3 servers not including bwb poplock across 3 factions.

inMorsAeterna wrote: »

The sad truth is that the lag is already destroying Cyrodiil.

I must confess that as a non-PvPer, I am struggling to see through all the constant complaints and get to the truth about PvP in this game. It appears to be so unplayable that people are queuing up to do it!

wrlifeboil

Are you thinking about small scale pvp in instances like battlegrounds or arenas? I think ZOS's idea of small scale pvp is fewer than 10 people fighting somewhere in Cyrodiil. So when the servers are empty during non-prime time or you get ambushed in a Cyrodiil delve, they can say the game already has small scale pvp.

c0rp

The last thing the devs of this game need is "ranked arena pvp QQ' about class and ability balancing. They are having a hard enough time as is.

I'll concede to some "battleground" type gameplay, but NO WAY to "epeen WoW arena". NO.

Athas24

technohic wrote: »

I will say there probably are a lot of PvPers looking for arenas. Because once they get them, then realize that they A: Aren't as god as they thought or B: Realize how poorly balanced an MMO is when it comes to small scale PvP; they quit. Those that don't; go on to whine about said imbalances or demand a ranked version so they can whine with more importance behind it; then whine some more due to win trading, premades vs PUGs, and trolls who tank in ranked one way or the other.

Yep. Sure a lot of them need a new home to pollute all over again.

EDIT: Forgot some of the vile to go with arenas and its players. Whine about someone showing up without what they consider optimal builds or even just using an "underpowered class" at all to ruin their hardcore experience. Then the subsequent other side of this where people whine some more about their underpowered class.

Unfortunately this is true. Smaller Scale PVP allows users to run more accurate numbers, see what is and isn't working properly and what is imbalanced. IT can be a good thing if the designers want to balance it out well but it can be a source of constant gripe if things are left unattended. Outside of balance issues, people are elitist in pve just as much as pvp so you'll have similar issues with classes, skills, builds whatever. That's just life but I think much of it can be overlooked with a good system for queuing and penalties for leaving matches.

lovESOng

Cyrodiil is enough PvP. Small battles, large battles, anything you want.
Also, since this game is B2P now i highly doubt that there will be much development for PvP in the future.

joshisanonymous

No.

Natjur

They would also have to make sure no PVP bonuses INCLUDE emperor bonuses are applied

But small scale PVP 4v4 will just be 4 DK vs 4 DK. Lots of classes are designed to be sneaky or mass vs mass. I don't think small scale PVP would be that much fun with the current skill\class setup.

At the moment, the only real winner in PVP is the lag monster.

QuadroTony

wealready have it now

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/163197/grind-700-750k-exp-h-cracked-wood-cave-with-math#latest

eliisra

c0rp wrote: »

The last thing the devs of this game need is "ranked arena pvp QQ' about class and ability balancing. They are having a hard enough time as is.

I'll concede to some "battleground" type gameplay, but NO WAY to "epeen WoW arena". NO.

I'll agree that we get more QQ related to build- and class balance. That's unavoidable. But still, I feel the game is way more balanced when doing small scale PvP and duelling. Almost feels like that's what developers had in mind when they sat down and looked at skills and combat mechanics.

In small scale you can block and dodge everything reactively instead of pro-actively, no one dies in 1 second, can time CC immunity, use proper counter play and see clearly what every enemy is doing.

In large scale you're like cc'ed from nowhere every 10 second, lagged out, cant see whose attacking and from what direction, people blow up instantly with a TKK being worse than your average shooter, cant focus and properly target players hiding in zergs, mash AoE, cant even see what's friendly and what's enemy half the time, red circles everywhere and so on. It's so messy.

So I do think some kind of battle ground would work, the combat system already supports that kind of game play.

Dudis

I've always been against the concept of instanced pvp. There's plenty of smallscale pvp to be found on cyrodiil if you bother to go looking.

Wow adding game-y instanced BGs with capture the flag and whatnot is the worst thing ever to happen to the MMO genre imo.

That said, I can't say I disagree with everything you're saying, i just think there are better sollutions.



Oh, I never siege or zerg btw.

Lulufia

I would love to have Arena (or even BGs) but the number one thing you need to make sure is NOT to give rewards from these, otherwise you will see the biggest scumbag tactics to emerge like in WoW also people will ignore cyrodiil for arena if the rewards are too great. (best pvp gear, unique mounts, lame fancy titles etc)

Area51Visitor

Dueling needs it's own place. I've seen AD/DC guilds building AP in large groups late at night under the guise of "dueling".

Proscar

I agree, BGs and arena type formats would add a new dimension and would draw more folks in that don't want something as huge as cyrodiil. Games with quick respawns and then back into the fight are more appealing than having to run such great distances just to get back to the battle (and then die and repeat). For those without alot of time per session, it is nice to get a short intense smashface battle in and then log, as opposed to the highly tactical and drawn out fights in cyrodiil.

NewBlacksmurf

Hmmm so bringing back ranks...which seems logical.
No idea why the PvP levels didn't stick with this during closed BETA....

Theosis

Bfish22090 wrote: »

I agree. Right now we can just play on non-busg servers.
Pvp justice system will bring some of that.

I hope that even happens.. pvp justice system