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ESO Needs Small Scale PvP.
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golfer.dub17_ESO✭✭✭✭If Cyrodil PVP is so bad that having small scale PVP would kill it, then Cyrodil PVP is not what the customers want and it should die.
Seems unlikely to happen in any case. Even if all the campaigns were merged into one, there would be enough people to run it.
Sound logic, not even being sarcastic.
They say they don't want to add arenas because it would split the population.
If you have to basically force people to play AvAvA...perhaps you're doing something wrong.3 -
Nijjion✭✭✭✭ESO already has small scale PvP... you just need to find it or create it... stop being lazy.
/hipster clothes on - back in my day in DAoC we made the PvP we wanted in RvR(AvA) we didn't just sit on our asses and did nothing but whine.
On serious note (even though was serious before), look at GW2 and the 2 PvP communities... do not want to do that with ESO.
However... if we do have to have arenas/battleground, only make them guild vs guild... random arenas are just plain bad and waste of time... and if you dare implement a ELO ranking system to a random arena... well hows cancer in your game, as that's what it is. Just look at how toxic LoL community is because of it and how Counter Strike GO has changed (for the worst in a way) since they added that in from CS/CSS.NijjijjioN - DK - AR27NijjioN - NB -Daggerfall CovenantThe Nice Guys GuildEverQuest -> Dark Age of Camelot -> Ragnarok Online -> Cabal Online -> Guild Wars 1 -> Warhammer Online -> Vindictus -> SWTOR -> Tera -> Guild Wars 2 -> Elder Scrolls Online ->
Eagerly awaiting Camelot Unchained.0 -
inMorsAeterna✭✭✭@Nijjion we certainly are not whining, we are rallying the community and discussing the important aspects of implementing this kind of pvp platform. That being said it would be hugely beneficial to have a more detailed breakdown of your opinion on what ESO could do the implement this kind of PvP without it being toxic to the rest of the game and community.3 -
newtinmpls✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭inMorsAeterna wrote: »@newtinmpls I love some of your ideas. But lets be honest, you are taking a simple thing (putting in a ranked and unranked arena/bg) and making it extremely complicated. I do think its a great idea, but one step at a time.
Okay, point taken that I don't know how hard it would be to do things.
What do you mean by a ranked and unranked arena?Tenesi Faryon of Telvanni - Dunmer Sorceress who deliberately sought sacrifice into Cold Harbor to rescue her beloved.
Hisa Ni Caemaire - Altmer Sorceress, member of the Order Draconis and Adept of the House of Dibella.
Broken Branch Toothmaul - goblin (for my goblin characters, I use either orsimer or bosmer templates) Templar, member of the Order Draconis and persistently unskilled pickpocket
Mol gro Durga - Orsimer Socerer/Battlemage who died the first time when the Nibenay Valley chapterhouse of the Order Draconis was destroyed, then went back to Cold Harbor to rescue his second/partner who was still captive. He overestimated his resistance to the hopelessness of Oblivion, about to give up, and looked up to see the golden glow of atherius surrounding a beautiful young woman who extended her hand to him and said "I can help you". He carried Fianna Kingsley out of Cold Harbor on his shoulder. He carried Alvard Stower under one arm. He also irritated the Prophet who had intended the portal for only Mol and Lyris.***Order Draconis - well c'mon there has to be some explanation for all those dragon tattoos.
House of Dibella - If you have ever seen or read "Memoirs of a Geisha" that's just the beginning...
Nibenay Valley Chapterhouse - Where now stands only desolate ground and a dolmen there once was a thriving community supporting one of the major chapterhouses of the Order Draconis0 -
inMorsAeterna✭✭✭newtinmpls wrote: »What do you mean by a ranked and unranked arena?
Ranked arena would keep track of all your victories and losses, compiling a score on leaderboards; this would be for competitive teams and guilds. While Unranked arena would be for pick-up matches for pugs or single players wanting to get auto-placed into a match for fun.
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newtinmpls✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭inMorsAeterna wrote: »
Ranked arena would keep track of all your victories and losses, compiling a score on leaderboards; this would be for competitive teams and guilds. While Unranked arena would be for pick-up matches for pugs or single players wanting to get auto-placed into a match for fun.
I'm not thinking "Arena" at all ... I"m thinking small mini battle areas within Cyrodiil that are accessible similar to the daily writs or repeatable quests. You would gain Alliance points if you succeeded in freeing/recapturing the farm/village/area and it would be part of your overall rank within your alliance.Tenesi Faryon of Telvanni - Dunmer Sorceress who deliberately sought sacrifice into Cold Harbor to rescue her beloved.
Hisa Ni Caemaire - Altmer Sorceress, member of the Order Draconis and Adept of the House of Dibella.
Broken Branch Toothmaul - goblin (for my goblin characters, I use either orsimer or bosmer templates) Templar, member of the Order Draconis and persistently unskilled pickpocket
Mol gro Durga - Orsimer Socerer/Battlemage who died the first time when the Nibenay Valley chapterhouse of the Order Draconis was destroyed, then went back to Cold Harbor to rescue his second/partner who was still captive. He overestimated his resistance to the hopelessness of Oblivion, about to give up, and looked up to see the golden glow of atherius surrounding a beautiful young woman who extended her hand to him and said "I can help you". He carried Fianna Kingsley out of Cold Harbor on his shoulder. He carried Alvard Stower under one arm. He also irritated the Prophet who had intended the portal for only Mol and Lyris.***Order Draconis - well c'mon there has to be some explanation for all those dragon tattoos.
House of Dibella - If you have ever seen or read "Memoirs of a Geisha" that's just the beginning...
Nibenay Valley Chapterhouse - Where now stands only desolate ground and a dolmen there once was a thriving community supporting one of the major chapterhouses of the Order Draconis1 -
inMorsAeterna✭✭✭Yes but like I said, you are taking a simple idea (Arenas and Battleground) and making it incredibly difficult (Small scale instances inside Cyro.) Also a closed Arena / Battleground offers the ability to make it competitive and ranked, which is what so many of us want.
I really like your idea, but thats not what we are advocating here.0 -
newtinmpls✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I'm not clear on what's so complicated about it.
Cyrodiil already has delves and group content. I'm just suggesting they have PvP/ranked delves and group content that counts toward alliance points/ranks.
Please help me to understand the differences in what you would like to see.Tenesi Faryon of Telvanni - Dunmer Sorceress who deliberately sought sacrifice into Cold Harbor to rescue her beloved.
Hisa Ni Caemaire - Altmer Sorceress, member of the Order Draconis and Adept of the House of Dibella.
Broken Branch Toothmaul - goblin (for my goblin characters, I use either orsimer or bosmer templates) Templar, member of the Order Draconis and persistently unskilled pickpocket
Mol gro Durga - Orsimer Socerer/Battlemage who died the first time when the Nibenay Valley chapterhouse of the Order Draconis was destroyed, then went back to Cold Harbor to rescue his second/partner who was still captive. He overestimated his resistance to the hopelessness of Oblivion, about to give up, and looked up to see the golden glow of atherius surrounding a beautiful young woman who extended her hand to him and said "I can help you". He carried Fianna Kingsley out of Cold Harbor on his shoulder. He carried Alvard Stower under one arm. He also irritated the Prophet who had intended the portal for only Mol and Lyris.***Order Draconis - well c'mon there has to be some explanation for all those dragon tattoos.
House of Dibella - If you have ever seen or read "Memoirs of a Geisha" that's just the beginning...
Nibenay Valley Chapterhouse - Where now stands only desolate ground and a dolmen there once was a thriving community supporting one of the major chapterhouses of the Order Draconis0 -
Nijjion✭✭✭✭inMorsAeterna wrote: »@Nijjion we certainly are not whining, we are rallying the community and discussing the important aspects of implementing this kind of pvp platform. That being said it would be hugely beneficial to have a more detailed breakdown of your opinion on what ESO could do the implement this kind of PvP without it being toxic to the rest of the game and community.
Well no game is without toxic players but you can minimize it by not implementing systems that would bring those sort of mentalities.
Something like only having arenas that are GvG (organised Guilds and groups) rather than random team arenas. Look at Guild Wars 1 GvG (forgetting the random arenas with that).Edited by Nijjion on April 16, 2015 11:11PMNijjijjioN - DK - AR27NijjioN - NB -Daggerfall CovenantThe Nice Guys GuildEverQuest -> Dark Age of Camelot -> Ragnarok Online -> Cabal Online -> Guild Wars 1 -> Warhammer Online -> Vindictus -> SWTOR -> Tera -> Guild Wars 2 -> Elder Scrolls Online ->
Eagerly awaiting Camelot Unchained.0 -
Valymer✭✭✭✭✭inMorsAeterna wrote: »@Nijjion we certainly are not whining, we are rallying the community and discussing the important aspects of implementing this kind of pvp platform. That being said it would be hugely beneficial to have a more detailed breakdown of your opinion on what ESO could do the implement this kind of PvP without it being toxic to the rest of the game and community.
Well no game is without toxic players but you can minimize it by not implementing systems that would bring those sort of mentalities.
Something like only having arenas that are GvG (organised Guilds and groups) rather than random team arenas. Look at Guild Wars 1 GvG (forgetting the random arenas with that).
You have only to read the Alliance War forum to quickly realize that toxic players are already here in this game. You are scared of something that has already come to fruition.
If anything, small-scale structured PVP would draw some of those types of players out of Cyrodiil, making it better for the rest of us.0 -
bloodenragedb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Nivzruo_ESO wrote: »sarttsarttsarttub17_ESO wrote: »Then you would destroy Cyrodiil pvp.
If small scale pvp destroys cryodiil, then it's because everyone likes small scale better then lag zerg/ run sim.. Add area, also BG/WZs
Depends on how they do it. Everyone could love large scale battles better but if they make short, small instant matches more efficient at earning AP or PvP gear, then people have a habit of taking the path of least resistance.
That said; my big problem with small scale PvP remains in being that balance issues are more magnified the smaller you go. Once they become clear, you then begin to have clear favorites in cookie cutter builds and rude behavior toward anyone who doesn't conform from those who then take it very seriously in order to win. Then the next phase is some people will want ranked and that then becomes the focus and attitudes become even more serious and vile.
People always say they want this stuff but I only ever see a shrinking and more derogatory PvP community with it
your correct, the other day i saw a heated battle 1v1 in bruma last well over 15 min, and thats with adds from the dolmen. The balance issues get worse the smaller the scale pvp goes.
Honestly, id rather have more content at this point than the constant and pointless quest to balance things. This mmo has had the least content releases as its competitors, and im pretty certian its because of all this "nerf this, nerf that" talk0 -
inMorsAeterna✭✭✭bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »Honestly, id rather have more content at this point than the constant and pointless quest to balance things. This mmo has had the least content releases as its competitors, and im pretty certian its because of all this "nerf this, nerf that" talk
That is absolutely incorrect, the lack of content is because of the Console releases coming up. The vast majority of Dev time has been focused on a clean release for both platforms. No doubt a monumental task.
Additionally this game is getting more and more balanced every patch. (If you played since release you would see this.)
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I still have no seen a single reason to not put in Arena/Bg. Granted there have been a few good points towards the fact that it needs to be implemented with care and foresight.Edited by inMorsAeterna on April 17, 2015 12:46AM1 -
inMorsAeterna wrote: »I still have no seen a single reason to not put in Arena/Bg. Granted there have been a few good points towards the fact that it needs to be implemented with care and foresight.
I'm still trying to wrap around this "BG" idea, we already have Cyrodiil, I don't see how a BG plays into the content that already exists, would people be phased into some sort of instance or something? Arena would be a nice feature, but I think the word "Arena" doesn't fit, maybe something like "Fighters Ring", something that fits into the ESO atmosphere.
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Valymer✭✭✭✭✭Dukegaming wrote: »inMorsAeterna wrote: »I still have no seen a single reason to not put in Arena/Bg. Granted there have been a few good points towards the fact that it needs to be implemented with care and foresight.
I'm still trying to wrap around this "BG" idea, we already have Cyrodiil, I don't see how a BG plays into the content that already exists, would people be phased into some sort of instance or something? Arena would be a nice feature, but I think the word "Arena" doesn't fit, maybe something like "Fighters Ring", something that fits into the ESO atmosphere.
Even though The Elder Scrolls: Arena was the name of the first Elder Scrolls game?
In all fairness though I don't care what they call it or how they set it up lore-wise, they just need to add something other than Cyrodiil ASAP.1 -
Aerieth✭✭✭ESO already has small scale PvP... you just need to find it or create it... stop being lazy.
/hipster clothes on - back in my day in DAoC we made the PvP we wanted in RvR(AvA) we didn't just sit on our asses and did nothing but whine.
On serious note (even though was serious before), look at GW2 and the 2 PvP communities... do not want to do that with ESO.
However... if we do have to have arenas/battleground, only make them guild vs guild... random arenas are just plain bad and waste of time... and if you dare implement a ELO ranking system to a random arena... well hows cancer in your game, as that's what it is. Just look at how toxic LoL community is because of it and how Counter Strike GO has changed (for the worst in a way) since they added that in from CS/CSS.
ESO doesn't have small scale PvP in the sense we want it.@Aerieth - PC EU Megaserver
Ilatria Shadowcore - Lv 50 Nord Vampire Nightblade - Tank / Stam DPS - Daggerfall CovenantMaiine Shadowcore - Lv 50 Breton Vampire Nightblade - Magicka DPS - Daggerfall CovenantAerieth Shadowcore - Lv 50 Imperial Vampire Nightblade - Healer - Daggerfall Covenant
From patch notes long forgotten:
"Fixed an issue if you had a summoned pet, it could potentially be grabbed by an invisible Molag-Bal and get stuck in a floating posture."
"Dogs can no longer teleport while chasing cats (much to the disappointment of the dogs)."1 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭As long as it doesn't grant AP, or not very much anyway, it'd be great to see this. That way the best teams couldn't farm noobs and playing in Cyrodiil would be necessary if you want to gain ranks or ap to spend. It would actually be a decent place to try out all the niche builds I have in my head. Hey Atla =P
LOL, what? Why shouldn't small scale PvP grant AP? If it doesn't grant AP, I won't even bother.
"That way the best teams couldn't farm noobs and playing in Cyrodiil would be necessary"
Your statement contradicts itself. Being "farmed" as AP fodder by organized teams is THE #1 REASON people like me hate the current PvP scene so much. The only time I ever earn any AP is when I just stumble onto a lone enemy by dumb luck. Most of the time what happens is that I get crushed by a rolling, lagging zerg before I even get a second shot off!
The way PvP works in Cyrodiil now is MASSIVELY biased in favor of large groups. It would be great if there was also a 1v1 duelling arena so that solo players could have a fair fight. However, the whole exercise will be pointless if there is no AP to be earned... none of the PvE masses will even try it once if they don't have a way to earn those Light of Cyrodiil rings they've been dreaming about.
#CAREBEARMASTERRACE0 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ESO already has small scale PvP... you just need to find it or create it... stop being lazy.
/hipster clothes on - back in my day in DAoC we made the PvP we wanted in RvR(AvA) we didn't just sit on our asses and did nothing but whine.
On serious note (even though was serious before), look at GW2 and the 2 PvP communities... do not want to do that with ESO.
However... if we do have to have arenas/battleground, only make them guild vs guild... random arenas are just plain bad and waste of time... and if you dare implement a ELO ranking system to a random arena... well hows cancer in your game, as that's what it is. Just look at how toxic LoL community is because of it and how Counter Strike GO has changed (for the worst in a way) since they added that in from CS/CSS.
Ha ha ha... so small scale PvP is OK (according to you) if guild snobs are the only players who get to do it?
I'm sorry, but I don't have a response to this that wouldn't get [snipped] by a moderator!
#CAREBEARMASTERRACE0 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭inMorsAeterna wrote: »newtinmpls wrote: »What do you mean by a ranked and unranked arena?
Ranked arena would keep track of all your victories and losses, compiling a score on leaderboards; this would be for competitive teams and guilds. While Unranked arena would be for pick-up matches for pugs or single players wanting to get auto-placed into a match for fun.
I don't understand this mentality. Why can't there be leaderboards and ranks for talented 1v1 gladiators?#CAREBEARMASTERRACE0 -
newtinmpls✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Okay, if I understand this right, I'm seeing folks interested in several different approaches to small-scale PvP for some specific reasons:
1-Zerg avoidance. The idea that for some people, the zerg-fest is off-putting and that a more controlled environment would be a place to test skills as opposed to getting run over like grass under a mower.
2-Introduction to PvP. A time and/or opponent limited situation as a less overwhelming/ more tempting intro.
3-Harking back to the small scale "arena" combat that has appeared in several of the ES games/universe (Arena, Oblivion).
4-Making the Cyrodiil 'writs' more interesting and allowing for 3-way small scale structured contests for resources (possibly war without the zergs - see above).
5-Allowing small groups and individuals to participate in the war without being "farmed"
I'm sure I'm missing someTenesi Faryon of Telvanni - Dunmer Sorceress who deliberately sought sacrifice into Cold Harbor to rescue her beloved.
Hisa Ni Caemaire - Altmer Sorceress, member of the Order Draconis and Adept of the House of Dibella.
Broken Branch Toothmaul - goblin (for my goblin characters, I use either orsimer or bosmer templates) Templar, member of the Order Draconis and persistently unskilled pickpocket
Mol gro Durga - Orsimer Socerer/Battlemage who died the first time when the Nibenay Valley chapterhouse of the Order Draconis was destroyed, then went back to Cold Harbor to rescue his second/partner who was still captive. He overestimated his resistance to the hopelessness of Oblivion, about to give up, and looked up to see the golden glow of atherius surrounding a beautiful young woman who extended her hand to him and said "I can help you". He carried Fianna Kingsley out of Cold Harbor on his shoulder. He carried Alvard Stower under one arm. He also irritated the Prophet who had intended the portal for only Mol and Lyris.***Order Draconis - well c'mon there has to be some explanation for all those dragon tattoos.
House of Dibella - If you have ever seen or read "Memoirs of a Geisha" that's just the beginning...
Nibenay Valley Chapterhouse - Where now stands only desolate ground and a dolmen there once was a thriving community supporting one of the major chapterhouses of the Order Draconis0 -
SanderBuraas✭✭✭✭✭The arenas should also permit players of all alliances, even of the same one, to fight. I have many friends of my alliance I would like to challenge, as well as those from other alliances.
I totally see how the arenas would work, with a lobby area for players to walk around, chat and have a look at challengers - where there are interactive boards where you can host or join arena matches. All arenas would be instances, but the lobby would be a place you could walk to or fast travel to in each alliance, similar to the Undaunted Enclaves.0 -
MornaBaine✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Dueling (with the ability to ignore duel invitations so as not to be spammed) is a must. Arenas with 1v1 up to 24v24 (full large group size) would be fantastic. Enable spectating and in game gold betting. Establish leaderboards for arena fighting. It would also be cool if the PvE crowd could form groups for the arenas and fight various monsters that they could choose from. Group fighters need to have temporary tabards assigned to them so spectators can easily tell the 2 combatant groups apart.
PvP gear as rewards would be nice.
Oh...and need I say that arena PvP should be cross faction also???Edited by MornaBaine on April 19, 2015 3:12PMPAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!1 -
Mr.Turtlesworth✭✭✭✭Agreed, there is no doubt in my mind that if this game wants to succeed for more than a couple years, it MUST add small scale PvP ( and dueling! )
And honestly, I would enjoy Cyrodil so much more knowing that I actually had options when it came to PVP... Right now Cyrodil feels like a chore.I r robot
hear me roar1 -
golfer.dub17_ESO✭✭✭✭ESO already has small scale PvP... you just need to find it or create it... stop being lazy.
I.e. you're lazy if you don't want to run across Cyrodiil to meet some guy, hope no one interrupts either of you, die, then run all the way back to do it again.
Fail to see what's wrong with having an arena.However... if we do have to have arenas/battleground, only make them guild vs guild... random arenas are just plain bad and waste of time... and if you dare implement a ELO ranking system to a random arena... well hows cancer in your game, as that's what it is. Just look at how toxic LoL community is because of it and how Counter Strike GO has changed (for the worst in a way) since they added that in from CS/CSS.
As far as I know most CSGO players enjoy the ranking system...all the people I play it with sure seem to.
Don't want to deal with ranks? No problem. I'm sure they could add a social, unranked version of the arena as well. Just like CSGO has casual unranked playlists, which no one plays shockingly even though they must all surely hate ranks like you imply they do.Edited by golfer.dub17_ESO on April 19, 2015 4:54PM1 -
Lhorion✭✭✭✭✭
Arguments against smallscale?joshisanonymous wrote: »No.joshisanonymous wrote: »FFS already, no arenas! You can literally play any other MMO if what you want is arenas. They're a balancing nightmare, both for skills and population.
GW2 made PvP almost literally a different game because they couldn't make skills that worked PvE, WvW, and PvP at the same time. Warhammer Online constantly had to switch which type of PvP gave the best rewards because people would just ditch one or the other then those who were left in the empty portion would complain until it got switched again. When we already have issues with balancing Cyrodiil populations, is this really what should be added to the game?
What's perhaps most ironic about this request is that EOS is possibly the easiest persistent PvP game to solo in ever because of sneak. It's ridiculously easy to avoid zergs and the map is huge with tons of nooks and crannies so that even if you're in the middle of a fight you will most likely be passed over by zergs. ZoS clearly went to great lengths to ensure that small scale PvP would be available in Cyrodiil, and it is, and yet people still beg for arenas.
At the moment ESO pvp can be defined like this:
- Bug
- Lag
- Zerg
- More Lag
- More Zerg
The only way to get lagfree (well... sometimes, not always) smallscale pvp is fighting in quest villages. Two disadvantages here:
1. Most enemies don't want to fight so they are just pve scrubs -> no fun
2. Often groups of more than 4 people are questing so solo pvp can be hard there, too.
But yes.... Once in 1-2 hours you have nice fights there against other good players.2 -
Nijjion✭✭✭✭ESO doesn't have small scale PvP in the sense we want it.[/url]
Does for me and many others.Emma_Eunjung wrote: »
Ha ha ha... so small scale PvP is OK (according to you) if guild snobs are the only players who get to do it?
I'm sorry, but I don't have a response to this that wouldn't get [snipped] by a moderator!
Yes arenas are a lot better when done competitively... nothing competitive about random team arenas.NijjijjioN - DK - AR27NijjioN - NB -Daggerfall CovenantThe Nice Guys GuildEverQuest -> Dark Age of Camelot -> Ragnarok Online -> Cabal Online -> Guild Wars 1 -> Warhammer Online -> Vindictus -> SWTOR -> Tera -> Guild Wars 2 -> Elder Scrolls Online ->
Eagerly awaiting Camelot Unchained.0 -
Rottley✭After they think to put in some small scale PvP they new to BALANCE the class, or u just gonna see 4 Dks vs 4 DKs.0 -
Rottley✭
Dude Small scale pvp and Big scale pvp like Cyrodill is too much different. In Cyrodill Sorcs had a lot of space to use BoL and run. We are talking about small spaces, like Arena types and Dk can 1 vs 1 all the other 3 class with a good build.0 -
Lhorion✭✭✭✭✭
They can, but good stam NBs and good sorcs can 1v1 everyone, too. The sorc that uses BoL more than one time against a DK is not good
Dude Small scale pvp and Big scale pvp like Cyrodill is too much different. In Cyrodill Sorcs had a lot of space to use BoL and run. We are talking about small spaces, like Arena types and Dk can 1 vs 1 all the other 3 class with a good build.
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