Official Feedback Thread for Enchanting

ZOS_GinaBruno

This is the official feedback thread for Enchanting. We’ve removed the Potency Runestones from nodes, and put them on the Enchanting vendors instead. Specific feedback that the team is looking for includes the following:

• Is it easy to tell where to get these now?
• Does it feel easier to start from scratch to make a rune?
• How does it feel to put lower-level enchants on higher-level gear?
• Do you have any other general feedback?

Enodoc

I know you don't like getting feedback before things have actually been tested... but I really don't like the fact that you are now forced to spend gold (or waste glyphs on deconstruction) to obtain Potency Runes. It's a real kick in the face for people who enjoy the gathering aspect of crafting; crafting is supposed to be a mechanic you use in-game primarily to gain gold by selling the things you have made from the world's resources. There is no other level-dependent crafting material in the game that you are forced to buy and cannot gather from the world.
@MissBizz @Epona222 I noticed you commenting on this in the Patch Notes thread. Come along over here and help me explain to ZOS why Potency runes should remain collectable in the world.

MissBizz

Enodoc wrote: »

I know you don't like getting feedback before things have actually been tested... but I really don't like the fact that you are now forced to spend gold (or waste glyphs on deconstruction) to obtain Potency Runes. It's a real kick in the face for people who enjoy the gathering aspect of crafting; crafting is supposed to be a mechanic you use in-game primarily to gain gold by selling the things you have made from the world's resources. There is no other level-dependent crafting material in the game that you are forced to buy and cannot gather from the world.
@MissBizz @Epona222 I noticed you commenting on this in the Patch Notes thread. Come along over here and help me explain to ZOS why Potency runes should remain collectable in the world.

I was just writing my feedback here when I saw the little popup that you tagged me @Enodoc

I am in the PTS right now. I am not happy about this change at all. As well, the pricing is ridiculous. Most of the runes are available for 30-100 gold. Even Jehade and Rejera (both level 10) are available for 111 gold, but Repora and Itade (level 10) are 2508 gold EACH? That's outrageous.

No other craft requires you to purchase items. I'm not sure if potency runes will come in hireling mails or not - but even if they do - that is not acceptable. Part of crafting is harvesting, and you are completely removing that and forcing players to pay.

As well, what is being done to stop what is already a rampant problem with harvesting? Currently MANY people leave lower worth items behind when they are harvesting runes. Am I going to run around on the live server and find nothing but Ta's because people chose to take the essence rune but not the TA - as ta's are essentially worthless once you have been around awhile.

I'm going on a crafting binge here soon to test out some other things, so I will leave feedback on how scaling runes up feels later on.

Epona222

@Enodoc - thanks for tagging me, I hadn't seen this thread.

My download has only just finished, but I can say categorically that I am opposed to this change, even before having played. People need to be able to gather the mats they need from the wilds of Tamriel. It is fundamental to crafting that I should be able to gather the items I need, NOT have to pay gold for them from an NPC vendor. I do not particularly mind if that is an option, as long as the option to gather what I need from the environment at a time/effort rather than gold cost remains.

I have it in my head that this was implemented because of the removal of vet ranks, but given that all vet level characters can now (since TG) go to any zone to gather mats rather than have to go through Cadwell's Silver to get to the higher ranked zones, it is an unnecessary and unwelcome change.

MissBizz

Epona222 wrote: »

@Enodoc - thanks for tagging me, I hadn't seen this thread.

My download has only just finished, but I can say categorically that I am opposed to this change, even before having played. People need to be able to gather the mats they need from the wilds of Tamriel. It is fundamental to crafting that I should be able to gather the items I need, NOT have to pay gold for them from an NPC vendor. I do not particularly mind if that is an option, as long as the option to gather what I need from the environment at a time/effort rather than gold cost remains.

I have it in my head that this was implemented because of the removal of vet ranks, but given that all vet level characters can now (since TG) go to any zone to gather mats rather than have to go through Cadwell's Silver to get to the higher ranked zones, it is an unnecessary and unwelcome change.

@Epona222 If it had to do with vet ranks, don't you think they would have done the same thing with alchemy waters?

Also @Joy_Division should know this thread exists.

Epona222

MissBizz wrote: »

Epona222 wrote: »

@Enodoc - thanks for tagging me, I hadn't seen this thread.

My download has only just finished, but I can say categorically that I am opposed to this change, even before having played. People need to be able to gather the mats they need from the wilds of Tamriel. It is fundamental to crafting that I should be able to gather the items I need, NOT have to pay gold for them from an NPC vendor. I do not particularly mind if that is an option, as long as the option to gather what I need from the environment at a time/effort rather than gold cost remains.

I have it in my head that this was implemented because of the removal of vet ranks, but given that all vet level characters can now (since TG) go to any zone to gather mats rather than have to go through Cadwell's Silver to get to the higher ranked zones, it is an unnecessary and unwelcome change.

@Epona222 If it had to do with vet ranks, don't you think they would have done the same thing with alchemy waters?

Also @Joy_Division should know this thread exists.

You're right, I was just struggling to find some sort of warped logic (however incorrect) to this decision. I can't think of any good reason why this has been done.

ZOS - we need to be able to harvest all crafting mats in some way - whether from nodes or animal/monster drops, we need to be able to harvest stuff ourselves. Really unhappy about this.

bloodenragedb14_ESO

i dont like that potency nodes have been removed, i enjoy obtaining mats from nodes, i dont want to have to sink gold into enchanting when EVERY OTHER material can be obtained free. its irritating

Vyle_Byte

It just doesn't make sense. Why would you do this? I consider this a neutering. Not a needed or wanted change by us that actually do the harvesting. Please enlighten us on why this change was implemented. Why should I waste my gold on something that I used to be able to pick up for free? Its not like that gold is going anywhere important, no you just took money OUT of the hands of people who work for materials and now it just vanishes into thin air. Makes no sense.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

Have to say this is silly. Nothing like adding 25k to the cost of creating a set of glyphs for no reason.

Enodoc

MissBizz wrote: »

Also @Joy_Division should know this thread exists.

Aye, I was just looking for more people to tag. I also found @Nestor, @Maotti_Nor and @lordrichter.

Maotti

Thanks for the tag @Enodoc

Yes, this is one of those changes by Zenimax that are neither needed nor wanted from many players. So why do this? It doesn't make any sense! And it severely devalues a big aspect of enchanting.

To add on this Zenimax, You yourself have said you don't want do do this and that because it will harm the in game economy. Guess what? This does it quite well. Why this change? Some people actually make lots of gold on farming potency runes.

Another addition, if you need to make goldsinks, at least make something new to spend gold on, not remove something that's been in game since probably beta and make it a decon/goldpurchase/hireling thing only!

That's my thought on the matter!

MissBizz

Just received hireling mail on the PTS. Did receive a Potency rune.

As well. If you find runes and they have only Ta. I may be trolling.

staracino_ESO

I also want to chime in and say that blue runes need to be found in the wild. If you want to make some crazy change to enchanting:
Make all nodes contain 1 potency, 1 essence, and 1 Ta. Jejota, Denata, Rekuta, and Kuta do not drop, but you combine Ta's to upgrade them. 5 Ta = 1 Jejota, 4 Jejota = 1 Denata, 3 Denata = 1Rekuta, 2 Rekuta = 1 Kuta. That makes 120 Ta per Kuta, which seems like a fair amount to me, maybe even a little too many. But this solves the problems of people leaving behind Ta, and the current issue with blues runes needing to be bought. Although with current stockpiles floating around, this would result in a huge amount of Kutas being produced, so maybe it will be too much.

smacx250

There are aspects of the game that are "too hard" to keep the interest of many players. I can see that Enchanting is one of them - this isn't the first time the skill has been made easier. Unfortunately with this change, along with making it "easier", I think it also makes it more boring. We go from three kinds of nodes to one - is that fun? Presumably I get 3x the aspect stones! Oh, wait, that means I'll sell my excess (of which I'll have more than 3x of) for probably less than 1/3, as nobody will need any. Oh yeah - I can just buy those hard to get v16 potency stones! Oh, that is a nice one! Wait a sec - no more "yea!" chant when I actually loot one! Hmmm - I guess I don't see how this is a fun change?

As for allowing lower lvl runes work on higher lvl gear - I have no issue with that.

Dagonthir

When I read in the patch notes that you don't need to harvest potency runes anymore, I thought that they meant that you now have the option of buying them from the vendors if you want to. That I'd be ok with. But if you really can no longer harvest them at all, then I am absolutely opposed to hat change.

On another point, I do like being able to put lower level enchantments on higher level gear. Sometimes you may just not have an available potency rune for the level of something you want to enchant, so being able to use a lower level rune to make a lower level glyph for the item is a nice option. I'm not sure I'd do it very often, but being able to do it is nice.

Epona222

smacx250 wrote: »

As for allowing lower lvl runes work on higher lvl gear - I have no issue with that.

Agreed, I think that is a good change, but would actually make infinitely more sense if we were still able to harvest potency runes - so if I had harvested a lot of 70-90 (old VR7-9) runes but didn't have any 100-140 yet I could use a 70-90 on a 100/120 piece of gear, that would be great and actually make some kind of sense.

Panth141

Why not just make them purchasable and make each node drop one potency as well as an essence and aspect?

I get the issue with farming potency runes is a bit of a pain due to zoning levels (which may be a reason for the node removal) so I will be buying them. Nonetheless, just plonk them in the nodes, too.

Elephant42

This is a very bad move ZOS. I have no problem with potency runes going to the vendors, even at the high L10 price, but they need to stay in the nodes as well. What on earth is the reasoning behind this move???

ZOS you seem to have some sort of vendetta against crafting with some of the changes starting with IC, although you did fix nearly all of the IC crafting problems with TG.

Remaining crafting problems as of the current DB patch:

• Ridiculous mat requirements for V16
• Hakeijo runes
• Potency runes

NewBlacksmurf

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

This is the official feedback thread for Enchanting. We’ve removed the Potency Runestones from nodes, and put them on the Enchanting vendors instead. Specific feedback that the team is looking for includes the following:

• Is it easy to tell where to get these now?
• Does it feel easier to start from scratch to make a rune?
• How does it feel to put lower-level enchants on higher-level gear?
• Do you have any other general feedback?

Yes but other than the table, I never went to town for these after leveling up past 10 or so.
No because potency isn't an issue at the start, it's just having runes in general that make it hard and the rediculous reasoning that making runs you eve already made don't really progress your progress.
-seems like a big waste for existing enchanters. The time and pain to level up and now to just apply lower to any (shouldn't the effect be less if it's lower or no?) it's great for new enchanters
-
With these changes please give 200% more exp for crafting any and DE glyphs since you're making it open to apply up, it should
Logically progress up rediculously faster too cause it's expensive for the runes we buy now
-

Joy_Division

It's going to have to take a *very* convincing explanation for me to believe the loss of the ability to harvest potency runes and forcing enchanters to buy them is a positive addition to the game.

NewBlacksmurf

Joy_Division wrote: »

It's going to have to take a *very* convincing explanation for me to believe the loss of the ability to harvest potency runes and forcing enchanters to buy them is a positive addition to the game.

This without changing the exp crawl because now it's even worse as you lost the third time that would help if unknown.
So I gotta but it just to level up but it's still slow

At least they coulda given some boosts or something

ZoM_Head

Now crafters specializing in enchanting have to purchase mats instead of finding them in the world.

Makes no sense.

barrrt

Is it easy to tell where to get these now?

Yes, because I read the patch notes. I would guess most players do not, and will be wondering why they are not finding potency runes.


Does it feel easier to start from scratch to make a rune?

Not sure if it’s any different.


How does it feel to put lower-level enchants on higher-level gear?

Not sure why I would do that, perhaps with an exception of C150 on C160 gear if I am short of C160 runes. Even on lower level toons, I do not ever remember having a shortage of potency runes.


Do you have any other general feedback?

Regarding removal of Potency nodes, like others, I have absolutely no idea why this change is happening. It seems like trying to solve a problem that does not exist (at least I do not remember seeing any complaints about it on the forums, which I read daily).

The only problem with Enchanting is that it takes too long to master… it should be possible to do so with the same speed as the toon leveling, so that first time player can make their own glyphs if they choose to specialize in enchanting. On my enchanter, I was around V7 when I got enchanting to level 50. That’s the problem that needs to be solved.

As to putting lower level glyphs on gear… I am not seeing myself doing this, but if this is possible, I’d like to have an indicator, when looking at gear, as to what level glyph had been applied to it. Even better the Aspect used should be shown too.

Epona222

I think I may have already said this, but I have no issue with potency runes being available at a vendor AS WELL as in the world for harvesting. The fact that grocers sell provisioning mats does not impact on me in any way and never has done, as I am still able to go and collect my own mats, and there is still a market for my excess mats via my guild stores. If someone wants to go pay 150g for an apple because it is more convenient than looking for an apple basket or checking a guild store to find them at 4g each, it doesn't affect me at all.

Removing a crafting mat from the world so that I can no longer gather it myself *does* affect me negatively, and will affect a great many players. Add them to a vendor for those people who would rather have the convenience of buying one from an NPC at an inflated price, fine, but leave them in the world for harvest too.

AzraelKrieg

Well, if anyone wants my enchanting services should this go live better expect to pay me. I'm not going to shell out over 2.5k for CP160 potency runes without getting reimbursed for it.

Beardimus

I agree they should still be in the world, as well as vendor. Just like writ recipes are.

I'm not sure why the harder crafts to learn / level are being made easier, like provisioning now you can just buy the writ recipes. Don't get me wrong enchanting and provisioning have really frustrated me at times but you put the effort it and it feels great when you finally crack it.

Also with scaled areas it's easy to farm potency, you just respec the skill point level and go on a tour, or writ for a week and you have plenty! That's the joy of the scaled zones.

Intrigued to know the logic behind this?

Epona222

Beardimus wrote: »

Also with scaled areas it's easy to farm potency, you just respec the skill point level and go on a tour, or writ for a week and you have plenty! That's the joy of the scaled zones.

What I've always (well since Orsinium at least) done up til now is have my main maxed on everything so they collect the highest level mats for everything from scaled zones, and another character that I am bringing up have a lower rank in crafting so they can collect the level of mats 1 higher than they need right now - send them off on a trip round wrothgar or hew's bane on the way back to town after each bout of questing or whatever and by the time they hit the next mat level, they have collected enough stuff for themselves and a bit extra.

Slurg

Allowing these for optional purchase for people who want that convenience is great. Taking them out of the nodes and forcing people to purchase them - did someone actually ask for this? Why? Who does this benefit? Did we not have enough gold sinks or something? Were the potency runes causing lag in Cyrodiil? This makes no sense to me to intentionally inconvenience your customers this way.

NewBlacksmurf

overall feedback: because of the change doesn't help, it makes the hardest crafting line even harder.

-enchanting....Just make enchanting work like alchemy since you've made the change.
Runes do any level now as they apply up and not at level which is the only good change.
If you wanted to help potency, you just needed to give 4 or 5 per node.

-drastically reduce the amount of runes cause what's the point of having tiered runes if potency is now in the vendor. Because the potency is what we want and glyphs apply up,....remove all the other tiers. Base the enchant power on our enchanting skill level and be done with it. KISS

This then makes it user friendly and not frustrating to still have to level up as there wasn't a need for a gold sink here. It was already super expensive to buy player made glyphs if we didn't level up and to level up you had to buy another players glyphs or make some and swap with another player and do a lot of harvesting and shopping

No idea what the concept is here unless your setting up spell crafting.
If so....just make a sweeping change now in preparation for it (see above)

OldManJim

My 2 cents: Forcing us crafters to purchase potency runes is absolute garbage. If Rejera are 2500gp, then why should I have to pay ~25,000 gp to craft enchantments for a v16 character, when I would previously get them essentially for free (nodes or writs)?

You should give people the option to purchase them, not force them to do so.

Also, with the massive changes to the equipment writs, there's going to be plenty of recrafting gear sets. Now all requiring us to purchase new potency runes.

Ever heard the old adage that if it ain't broke, then don't fix it?

This feels like change for the sake of change.

One very, very unhappy master enchanter here.

Epona222

It's going to make leveling enchanting so much worse for those who haven't already maxed it too.

Enchanting is the most difficult crafting skill to level, but not impossible, and didn't need to cost anything. I have 8 characters on my primary account, and 7 of them are at enchanting level 50, the 8th is at level 46 or 47 or thereabouts. I didn't do this by buying glyphs, I didn't spend a single gold on it - I did it by collecting every rune I come across, and using all the stuff I didn't immediately need for gear to level characters in pairs, 1 character making glyphs and passing them to another character to decon, then that character making a load and passing them back to the first for decon. Probably took me about 5 hours and a good stock of collected (ie. cost me nothing in terms of gold) runes to get it done on most of my characters.

Now if anyone wants to do that, they'll have to buy potency runes for it, anyone who hasn't maxed enchanting by the time this goes live is basically stuffed unless they spend a huge amount of gold buying high level potency runes or glyphs to decon (and the price of crafted glyphs is going to go through the roof, no more buying cheap crafted ones for decon inspiration).