Boss Camping Has To Be Dealt With

kcolasaccob14_ESO · April 2014

Camping bosses has been in games since EQ and in this game, it doesn't actually hurt you that other people are there killing it. The only weird thing is that you're trying to force people to play the way that you want them to.

Here's my suggestion. Find $100 million and make an MMO that's exactly what you like.

DanteYoda · April 2014

Ask them politely if you can kill the boss, if they say no or start to trash talk report the lot of them, the quicker these types are banned the better. no loss really.

If enough report the same few they will get banned sooner or later but more people need to report the scummy players.

Kililin · April 2014

@Zarec‌
your wikipedia link states that it is heavily disputed if something is considered an exploit, but also gives examples like: use of a bug or glitches, rates, hit boxes, or speed, etc. by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game's designers

And your beloved forum post is
a. nothing official, could be made up as well
b. gives no details (could as well be the kind of oneshotting i used as an example for a understandable ban)

so if trolling you won +1 internets
if not please be so kind and point to some official source, afaik we can go where we want to and play how we want to.

Next somebody is banned for repeatedly harvesting the same ressource node, or repeatedly using the same wayshrine, it is just stupid. This is a game you play with other people, if you dont like them standing around your bank, your ressource node or your PUBLIC dungeon boss, maybe you should play skyrim.

Publius_Scipio · April 2014

Campers all I can say is I hope your days are numbered. You all seem to think it is ok to slam a boss over and over and not care about the next player's experience because of your drooling, mouth foaming obsession with loot and whatever else.

My suggestion in the OP makes it so that we are all on the same level as far as getting loot (you will have no disadvantage over anyone else). Secondly it will make it so that everyone can enjoy EVERY DUNGEON RUN THAT IS IN THE GAME SO THEY CHOOSE! And thirdly it will keep everyone circulating around the zones and areas.

You are correct for the time being that it is a game mechanic simply because that's the way it is currently. Well I really do hope that ZOS changes that mechanic.

Boss camping, werewolf/vampire camping and selling an infectious bite for absurd amounts of gold. I really hope this festering dark side of ESO and any MMO for that matter is put to bed in 2014.

Arsenic_Touch · April 2014

Agreed that they need to do something about the boss farming. They should make the spawn point of the boss in every dungeon (random) that way it requires you to move around and bots can't just sit in one spot spamming skills nor can anyone else trying to make a quick buck.

Or they can make it so you only get drops once from the boss once for being there and anytime you want to farm it you have to come back. (IE after completing it once you get moved to a different phase from those who didn't complete it, where you have to run the whole dungeon all over again to get another boss drop.

Or they could just make it so you only get the drop once and never again, either way something needs to be done.

NordJitsu · April 2014

I think that 90% of the problems in this game could be solved by reducing the number of players per Phase.

This is one of them.

Arsenic_Touch · April 2014

NordJitsu wrote: »

I think that 90% of the problems in this game could be solved by reducing the number of players per Phase.

This is one of them.

That's not a solution. That will just make some phases appear like ghost towns.

Soella · April 2014

Interesting to see how ESO players are fighting MMO players. Successful MMO experience includes compromise. Why someone has to stop farming loot they want to give someone else experience they want? Why one is better then another?

BTW, I don't understand campers, I am getting far more loot for deconstruct/research from AoE farming. I do camp boss in first dungeon as soon as I hit 20/30/40 to get some fast free soul gems. I think bot campers has to be dealt with and will, as for active players - they will stop it eventually.

Zarec · April 2014

Kililin wrote: »

@Zarec‌
your wikipedia link states that it is heavily disputed if something is considered an exploit, but also gives examples like: use of a bug or glitches, rates, hit boxes, or speed, etc. by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game's designers

And your beloved forum post is
a. nothing official, could be made up as well
b. gives no details (could as well be the kind of oneshotting i used as an example for a understandable ban)

so if trolling you won +1 internets
if not please be so kind and point to some official source, afaik we can go where we want to and play how we want to.

Next somebody is banned for repeatedly harvesting the same ressource node, or repeatedly using the same wayshrine, it is just stupid. This is a game you play with other people, if you dont like them standing around your bank, your ressource node or your PUBLIC dungeon boss, maybe you should play skyrim.

A. I am assuming you are not illiterate and can in fact read as you are able to understand and follow basic sentence structure so I will lay it out. As you quoted my wikipedia post on what an exploit is in regards to gaming you would notice that itsy bitsy little phrase "not intended by the game's designers".

Now any person with any kind of deductive reasoning would be able to deduct that while exploits are part of the game, what exactly is an exploit is deemed by the games developers and is on a game by game basis. Yes every game has exploits but majority of the time they are not punished when used as majority of exploits are benign in nature. When they start effecting large groups of the player base is when the game developers are forced to act. Here are a couple reasons as to why this exploit has been getting people in trouble.

1. It affects the game economy
2. It hinders regular players from playing the game in the manner intended by the game developers (ie not able to kill the boss themselves, not get loot as the boss is dead before they are able to figure out where the boss is majority of the time).

B. While I myself was skeptical at first, further reading the player in question explained he was not botting and was doing what several players have admitted to on this forum post alone.

What gave further credence to his post of copy/paste of the response he got from support was a mod locking the thread all together. The mods have shown they are able to see the support tickets we file under our names as they have shown they can fast track those without even needing to know the ticket number. SO....yes this player was banned. This player also receives no gain from putting false information about the response received from support in the forums. If he was trolling, he would have had something to gain but considering he was banned at the time, he gained nothing by lying.

C. Players playing the game as intended by the game developers should not be punished nor hindered in playing the game naturally as boss farming does not advance the game in any direction. It actually stagnates as any leveling done in this method is small due to the low xp you gain from it. What you get from boss farming is an over abundance of materials and gold flooding the game economy making a new economy weak to start off with requiring players that play the game naturally unable to purchase things at a reasonable price (inflation if you do not know the word).

In conclusion it would seem the developers are treating this as an exploit and have taken steps currently to cull players who are abusing it until a permanent solution can be implemented. Continue to do it at your own risk. It would seem on this thread alone that the ones who are abusing this mechanic are in the minority and if they were removed, it probably wouldn't hurt the game overall (as long as a final solution can be found).

KevLit0352_ESO · April 2014

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

You farmers ruin dungeons for the rest of us ok. So I hope ZOS implements my suggestion or something similar so that this ends. If you want mats go around the world exploring and collect.

You mean like public dungeons? To be completely honest, it's not that hard to hit the bosses at the end of the public dungeons unless you're playing the game on your toaster, so I don't see your big quarrel with this other than it 'ruining muh immersion.' If you want to stop at every book in the dungeon, go for it. People trying to get the loot from the boss at the end of the dungeon are not hindering you from any of that.

ladywillow15 · April 2014

What really bothers me is that there are achievements for killing these dungeon bosses. But then, I go into a dungeon and there are dudes 10 levels higher than the boss camping it, killing it in one or two hits. I can't even get a hit on it to tag it so I'll get any credit.

I just had to relog about 10 times to get an instance where that wasn't happening so I could kill that damn big bug in the Kwama Mine in Grahtwood and get my achievement.

When farmers are causing that level of disruption... I have a problem with it.

gharms · April 2014

I in no way condone griefing or anything, but are we really saying that if I kill a boss more than one or two times for loot, I'll get banned? Have any of you PLAYED an MMO besides this one? That's sort of the point. You kill something until you get your desired loot, and then you move on. I can see this argument for people who spend all day instagibbing bosses for loot they don't need just to flood the market, but for my personal gain, I should be able to kill that boss as many times as I need to get the loot I wanted from it.

randomaffliction66 · April 2014

Zarec wrote: »

Clotholachesisatropos666b14_ESO wrote: »

Farming instances is part of an mmo, you're going to have to with it, this is nothing new.

Spawn camping has been frowned upon and punishable in most games for a long time. It was usually lumped in as griefing. It is usually pertaining to pvp but lineage 2 and a few other games they viewed it in the pve side as well and punished players. God that made me feel old.

this thread makes me lol

ZOS_JessicaFolsom · April 2014

Hi folks,

We are looking at addressing the concerns expressed in this thread and others about public dungeon boss farming, from the development side. The act of manually farming these bosses, while possibly not very courteous of others who are trying to have a shot at the content too, is not against our Terms of Service. (Purposefully griefing is another story, entirely.) That said, there are some very valid concerns here, and we are looking at ways we can improve upon how public dungeons and the bosses in them work.

If we make any changes to public dungeons and bosses, we'll call them out in patch notes.

Turelus · April 2014

Thanks for posting Jessica, that will put a lot of people at ease I'm sure.
Hopefully if you make changes they're not going to be ones that penalise farmers too much.

nanaki90 · April 2014

Why should i not be allowed to farm bosses for soulstones/potions and the odd item here and there.
Those public dungeon bosses only all have 1 really good drop rest is green/white and 99% junk. A decent way to level crafting skills

If you want that dungeon crawl archievement feeling you can do group dungeons or try to find a boss that isnt camped.

Anzaman · April 2014

After running multiple public dungeons, I agree that something needs to be done.

Almost in every single dungeon there has been several players simply sitting next to the boss spawn spot and they kill it within seconds when it spawns. And thanks to them, I'm "forced" to slay the boss multiple times before the game registers that I'm actually eligible for the loot.

doppis · April 2014

I love camping...reminds me of old school everquest. I really don't like timers setup so I cant kill anything or get loot. I usually kill the names in public dungeons about 3-4 times and then take off. Are these public dungeons really that important to you? They take about 5 minutes to clear. The veteran and grouped dungeons are what I'm interested in.

Atomize · April 2014

what a load of BS this is.

boss camping has been in all MMO for years and to the op if you dont do this and dont like it then all your gonna do is kill the boss ONCE then move on,

so why in the hell is it not OK for the guy next to you to stay there and kill it few more times ? your not gonna be in this zone again cus you dont farm bosses/instance for loot ??? LOL

Farming Bosses is a must for alot of hardcore MMO players its just some thing we do and do we have for many years.

SuperScrubby · April 2014

Good lord this is not an issue. If you can't attack a boss for a drop then whose fault is that? All it takes is 1 good hit. I've done it. Used critical charge on my character and I was not only given completion credit but a shot at loot.

People complaining about boss farming make no sense. Every game has had boss farming, other games make drops even harder and spawn times longer. Even that isn't the best solution.

Bosses offer the best solution for getting potions, soul gems, enchantments, a shot at some usable blue armor, etc. So unless zeni wants to bleed all of that to all the regular mobs at a higher rate making bosses useless for people to "FEEL THE IMMERSION".

So just because you can't adapt to the learning curve that every game has doesn't mean you should try to preach like your solution is amazing and solves the problem. Just like in life, there are winners and losers, no different than in a game. Yes content should be able to be enjoyed by all and have a low barrier to entry, but by lowering the bar so low that even a newborn baby trips on it, is not the solution. Rethink your skill selection if you're going to complain about not getting credit for killing a boss. Maybe not use the resto staff? You do get 2 weapon slots for a reason.

I get that dev's want to make sure everyone is happy, but they also need to keep in mind that most people on the forum are actually the minority with regards to the game population. Most people don't want this. A small handful do because for whatever reason, could be their first real mmo, they could suck at games, but whatever their reason, it punishes everyone else catering to people that want everything "their" way. This is not burger king, you order off the same GD menu as everyone else. Yes there should be tweaks, but overhauling dungeons because of a small few. It ruins the game for the majority of the population, the same majority that actually pays to play longer than 30 days. Not these scrubs that cry for changes and then leave 2 months later. God I thought I was scrubby, but some of the people here take the cake.

Anzaman · April 2014

SuperScrubby wrote: »

Good lord this is not an issue. If you can't attack a boss for a drop then whose fault is that? All it takes is 1 good hit. I've done it.

Most of the time one (1) hit isn't enough for the loot, especially when boss dies in one second from spawning.

Several times I have gotten the public dungeon completed, but been unable to loot anything from the boss due them being overly camped.

SuperScrubby · April 2014

If you use a regular light attack then no it won't work. Use a burst damage spell, ability, etc. There are a lot to choose from. Hence saying 1 good hit, you can't sneeze on something and expect it to die.

Sinoby · April 2014

Thanks Jessica for proper explanation, what you guys are foing is for the best of the game.
I mean people suggesting banning other for farming bosses is just ridiculous.

mrwilson714_ESO · April 2014

Create a 2nd boss in these dungeons for the campers and remove loot from the boss needed to complete the dungeon.

Adernath · April 2014

I totally agree with the OP. In principle I dont have anything against farmers, but this is ridiculous. The current situation is immersion breaking and should be dealt with.

doppis · April 2014

xDJ_DUBST3Px wrote: »

jdkorreckpreub18_ESO wrote: »

Yes, definitely ban the botters, but dont you think the OP's idea is a brilliant one?

There is nothing brilliant about that and its been done before and I hate it lol. There is nothing more frustrating than a game locking me out of things because I killed it once.

Devilfish85 · April 2014

Is there a reason the boss of these dungeons needs to have such a high loot drop rate? Most of said dungeons are incredibly easy, and you're already getting the quest XP. There are better places these loot drops could be moved to, so people can still treasure hunt without being such knobs about it... such as rare spawns in the dungeon, or chests.

Remove the special loot drop rate from single player dungeon bosses, and the problem is solved. I'm okay with missing out on a few blue items that I just deconstruct 20 minutes later anyway.

Ady · April 2014

So people want the servers to be monitored gestapo style? Yeah no thanks. Nothing more I hate then people sitting on their behind reporting everything. Offend your sensibilities? report. Camp a boss? report etc.

Yeah no thanks if they start banning people for every little thing I'll take my cash to other mmos.

SirAndy · April 2014

Legit campers are fine, they can usually be reasoned with.

At the moment, the real problem are all the automated bots that you can find in every boss dungeon. They all need to be identified and banned from the game.
;-)

SuperScrubby · April 2014

The moment they move the loot table to a side boss and people camp those you'll get the same exact threads that then read, "NOT FAIR BECAUSE I CAN'T GET DROPS". At least in this game you have a chance with the public claiming system. Other games that only 1 person or group can claim? So to sit here and complain because you can't attack fast enough or do enough damage for loot is ridiculous. There is no solution because no matter what you do, people will camp that mob and you'll get some carebear, entitled, hipster complain that they should make things easier for them so they don't have to come up with an actual strategy.

Please don't try to force your shortcomings onto the majority of players, just because you struggle. If the game is broken then fix it, but the majority of people are ok with this system because it is better than almost every other system. If the system can be improved, great. But to penalize other people because of your opinions is a terrible thing. I'm all for the minority voice to be heard, but it doesn't always mean that the minority opinion is right. Especially in this case.

Boss farming will always be a thing, otherwise it defeats the purpose of bosses. By making the drops even more rare, then the prices of said items will go up and you'll have more people farming them to make profit, which puts everyone in a similar predicament, tons of people farming an item that barely drops. Law of supply and demand, which works pretty well in games.