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There is a real problem on Auriel's Bow

shirorxb14_ESO
The campaign is beginning to be quite imbalanced by the hours some alliances operate on. Somehow Aldmeri constantly have 2-3x both other faction's numbers at very very off times for North America (2ame-8am est) which they use to run thru all the campaign at night completely unopposed.

There should be a harder limit imposed on how many more individuals are allowed into a campaign compared to their opponents. Or simply prevent the number of off-continent people allowed to play on NA campaigns.
Raiya Sunrazor - Imperial Sorcerer - Auriel's Bow
  • Mobius0
    Mobius0
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    I agree. I wish limitations were imposed based on current population, and not a static number.
  • RedTalon
    RedTalon
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    Would call it a cleaver tactic, but hey rememer before they switch their times playing they where struggling and things where staying even. But there needs to be some sort of limiting factor, or skill sets to slow zergs and such in general, and to expand tactics would like to be able to dig pit falls and the like.
  • RaZaddha
    RaZaddha
    ✭✭✭
    I would blame the AD players that play during EU and SEa times for this. I seriously don't know why theres so many people at AD, does anyone knows of a alliance of some sorts? It would be very stupid to purposedly stack on a single side. But balancing population is really hard, they need to allow for alliance change and incentives to join the underdogs, otherwise you are screwing people up by punishing them.
  • Zephyr
    Zephyr
    ✭✭
    It should be 4-5 every 4 players we have, they can have 5. 1-1 ratios don't work so well, then choosing a faction doesn't really matter.
    NA Server - Ebonheart Pact - Irisana
  • Fxfighter_ESO
    It was originally even pop until DC & EP started losing during that non-US time period. Since that started happening, less and less EP/DC seem to be in pvp at that time which has only compounded the problem.
  • sSolutionSs
    sSolutionSs
    ✭✭✭
    The campaign is beginning to be quite imbalanced by the hours some alliances operate on. Somehow Aldmeri constantly have 2-3x both other faction's numbers at very very off times for North America (2ame-8am est) which they use to run thru all the campaign at night completely unopposed.

    There should be a harder limit imposed on how many more individuals are allowed into a campaign compared to their opponents. Or simply prevent the number of off-continent people allowed to play on NA campaigns.


    Yea so what I live in CA USA and play in the middle of the night all night and all my friends do to. dont judge me. Dont judge them.
    Edited by ZOS_JuhoJ on April 23, 2014 3:45AM
  • JeffKnight
    JeffKnight
    ✭✭✭
    I commented on this the other day. For whatever reason, there seems to always be enough for 5-6 full AD zergs of 50+. EP and DC can only dream of those kinds of numbers.
    Officer of Exceptional Legion
    http://www.exceptionallegion.com
    Auriel's Bow - NA
  • Sykotik_ESO
    Sykotik_ESO
    ✭✭✭
    How is this a serious complaint? Its like telling the entire world they can't do anything while the US sleeps. In ANY rvr, wvw, massive wars like this there is always off peak hours for the USA which are peak hours for other timezones. If oceanics or Europeans decided to play on the dominion mostly they aren't bad people because of it...it is what they chose.

    This is like the longest running pointless complaint for this type of PvP lol, the limitations may be fine for us, but what happens when the oceanic people all want to play together but they can't because we don't want them having their full members when we don't? That's pretty unfair IMO.
  • JeffKnight
    JeffKnight
    ✭✭✭
    The problem is, Sykotik_ESO, that for whatever reason, the population controls aren't working and allowing a massive amount of 1 faction in when the other factions are low on population. No one faction should be allowed to have more than 2x the amount of the lowest populated side that is currently on. It unbalances the campaign.
    Officer of Exceptional Legion
    http://www.exceptionallegion.com
    Auriel's Bow - NA
  • MrDDT
    MrDDT
    ✭✭✭
    Sykotik, just like any full server, they would have to guest on another server. I'm not going to say which faction or whatever, because the problem is on more than 1 server. It should be the same. If you are playing on a server that has a 3+ to 1 ratio over the other 2 factions combined, it should start putting people in queue. If people are tired of the queue and want to PVP, they can guest on another campaign just like if the PVP campaign was locked.

    Another problem is people are finding ways around the locked number too. So even when lets say EP is locked at 600 people, there is away to still get 100s more in on that side OVER the locks. Again causing the same issue of imbalance.

    I don't mind fighting 2 or even 3 to 1 odds at most fights, but it's bad when you are talking 6 to 10x more at most battles.

    Not sure if you know but there is an addon where you can see how many people are in your current campaign and what faction they are on. So you can clearly see the numbers, you will have 1 faction will wipe the map with little the other factions can do vs those numbers. It's not fun for anyone to be honest.
  • Sykotik_ESO
    Sykotik_ESO
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    Its always the same thing in any ongoing war, there's ups and downs of every side. Like I said how would we feel if half our guild couldn't play because we had to be capped at a certain amount in alliance wars. It'd be unfair to people not to allow them to play because they live on a different side of the world.
  • babanovac
    babanovac
    ✭✭✭
    GW2 had the same problem, with some servers having a combined population from all timezones, while others having only eu or us population.

    Last i know, they didn't really find a solution to this, and they just let the servers balance themselves.
  • ritsuko
    ritsuko
    There is no problem. All 3 factions had full pops almost 24/7 the 2 weeks before, with AD as the weakest faction. The only reason for a drop in population in DC and EP would be players giving up and leaving to PvE instead of fighting. The system is also designed to balance itself out with the dominant faction getting 2v1.
    Edited by ritsuko on April 15, 2014 1:22PM
    Synapse - SEA/Oceanic Hardcore PvP/RvR
    www.synapse-guild.com
  • MrDDT
    MrDDT
    ✭✭✭
    ritsuko wrote: »
    There is no problem. All 3 factions had full pops almost 24/7 the 2 weeks before, with AD as the weakest faction. The only reason for a drop in population in DC and EP would be players giving up and leaving to PvE instead of fighting. The system is also designed to balance itself out with the dominant faction getting 2v1.

    I'm not sure how you can say there is no problem.
    No all 3 factions did not have full pops 24/7 the 2 weeks before. In fact there were only a few times more than 2 factions were at locked. Meaning like I would say well below 75% of the time.

    If the servers were locked 100% of the time, I think the system would be working great as you say, but clearly there is not enough people in PVP to support 10 campaigns.

    The 2 v 1 option would work great other than the fact still that 1 faction still has more than 2x the TOTAL of the other 2 factions. You can clearly see this when 1 faction is locked at 700+ people in the campaign and the other 2 have less than 60 each.

    2 problems are here, that I can see.

    1)The way to get around the lock out number (it should be 666, but I've seen over 1000 in it for 1 faction abusing this system)
    2)Too many campaigns. If the over populated faction had to sit in a queue, people would stop trying to goto the zerg faction due to wait timers. Having said that, if the queue timer is more than 10 to 15mins, it's clearly to long and other compaigns need to open.
  • Reiii
    Reiii
    MrDDT wrote: »
    ritsuko wrote: »
    There is no problem. All 3 factions had full pops almost 24/7 the 2 weeks before, with AD as the weakest faction. The only reason for a drop in population in DC and EP would be players giving up and leaving to PvE instead of fighting. The system is also designed to balance itself out with the dominant faction getting 2v1.

    I'm not sure how you can say there is no problem.
    No all 3 factions did not have full pops 24/7 the 2 weeks before. In fact there were only a few times more than 2 factions were at locked. Meaning like I would say well below 75% of the time.

    If the servers were locked 100% of the time, I think the system would be working great as you say, but clearly there is not enough people in PVP to support 10 campaigns.

    The 2 v 1 option would work great other than the fact still that 1 faction still has more than 2x the TOTAL of the other 2 factions. You can clearly see this when 1 faction is locked at 700+ people in the campaign and the other 2 have less than 60 each.

    2 problems are here, that I can see.

    1)The way to get around the lock out number (it should be 666, but I've seen over 1000 in it for 1 faction abusing this system)
    2)Too many campaigns. If the over populated faction had to sit in a queue, people would stop trying to goto the zerg faction due to wait timers. Having said that, if the queue timer is more than 10 to 15mins, it's clearly to long and other compaigns need to open.

    You've seen over 1000? Probably as accurate as the time you saw our group of 20 and said we had over a 100.
  • MrDDT
    MrDDT
    ✭✭✭
    If I said it was over 100, it was likely joking or reinforcing the fact to pull back. I clearly do not count most of the time when I'm leading groups on the number of people.

    The faction pop does count for me, it gives you a number of people.
  • Sylvanna
    Sylvanna
    I think the real question here is: where did the consistent high pop from EP/DC go to?

    During our Oceanic primetime, both DC/EP in AB had high pops during the start. I believe most of us can attest that we had good fights here and there for the most part of that. I only really started pvping 5 days after headstart (because mad rush to VR), but even then, the populations of all 3 factions were relatively close, and no one had a clear advantage. (This was last week)Total accumulated points were close and PPT gains were pretty close as well.

    Over the past week, we've seen a drastic drop in the Oceanic primetime pop of both EP/DC, dropping to an all-time low of "low" (lol) during the past few days. (Today, both EP/DC were at "medium" though.)

    Thus, the question begets:

    "Was the low pop just due to the fact that people felt underleveled (leveling in Cyrodiil is indeed very slow) and had taken a break to level up in PvE?"

    or was it because people slowly starting giving up on fighting AD?

    We from AD don't know what is going on with the other factions, so we can only guess.
    Edited by Sylvanna on April 15, 2014 2:04PM
  • Tyens
    Tyens
    Well, I do agree AD has a larger population during off-peak hours on weekdays but on weekends it's quite even or at least 2 bar on both EP and DC side which obviously they will 2 vs 1 the leading faction which is AD and that happens also during the weekday. Don't forget during US Primetime DC and EP have a much higher % of population which will push AD all the way to their last 2 keeps.
    Edited by Tyens on April 15, 2014 2:02PM
    Synapse - SEA/Oceanic Hardcore PvP/RvR
    www.synapse-guild.com
  • MrDDT
    MrDDT
    ✭✭✭
    Tyens wrote: »
    Well, I do agree AD has a larger population during off-peak hours on weekdays but on weekends it's quite even or at least 2 bar on both EP and DC side which obviously they will 2 vs 1 the leading faction which is AD and that happens also during the weekday. Don't forget during US Primetime DC and EP have a much higher % of population which will push AD all the way to their last 2 keeps.

    Even at primetime, AD has more pop than DC or EP or tied with one of them. It's only because DC and EP will sorta team up on AD and push them down during prime time.

    Weekend EST mornings AD easy has 5x DC or EP in numbers.

    Also just because you see 2 bars doesnt mean that's 1/2 of locked. You get to 2 bars when you hit 100ish people.

    @Sylvanna‌ , I'm sure there are lots of reasons why DC or EP are no longer putting up the numbers as they did before. To list a few you have, some of the guilds left to goto a dead server to own it up. (Like Wabbajack), also the game just released so you expect more people to be playing on release day and the first few days.
    On this server AD was losing by points for the first few days (almost a week) behind DC and EP, so I doubt people left because they were losing. Now after the last few days, I can understand if people were to leave when they are literally fighting 5 to 10x their numbers.
  • Tyens
    Tyens
    MrDDT wrote: »
    Tyens wrote: »
    Well, I do agree AD has a larger population during off-peak hours on weekdays but on weekends it's quite even or at least 2 bar on both EP and DC side which obviously they will 2 vs 1 the leading faction which is AD and that happens also during the weekday. Don't forget during US Primetime DC and EP have a much higher % of population which will push AD all the way to their last 2 keeps.

    Even at primetime, AD has more pop than DC or EP or tied with one of them. It's only because DC and EP will sorta team up on AD and push them down during prime time.

    Weekend EST mornings AD easy has 5x DC or EP in numbers.

    Also just because you see 2 bars doesnt mean that's 1/2 of locked. You get to 2 bars when you hit 100ish people.

    Thanks for the response, I don't really know the numbers on the bars, maybe they should implement showing the amount of people in each campaign per faction when hovering the bars(maybe?). If not it's hard to tell how many people are there in each faction. Not to mention there are AFKs in keeps, base camps, people doing PvE/hunting skyshards.

    I am also not sure why suddenly there is such an burst of players flocking to Auriel's Bow AD, before we came over the competition was quite even. We only brought less than 30 people into the campaign(well each PvP session).
    Synapse - SEA/Oceanic Hardcore PvP/RvR
    www.synapse-guild.com
  • orangez0630rwb17_ESO
    orangez0630rwb17_ESO
    Soul Shriven
    Maybe I should say something that you might agrees with me, is the quality of players & the organization capability overall.
    There are times where all 3 factions are locked, or AD/DC locked EP at 3bars, if you said you've seen over 1000 in a faction so I guess when DC are locked it has at least 1000players too but the result it produces... well. I believe you seen it too, like 40 men outside a keep but can't do anything or try seige-ing for 20mins or so but no wall is down (where the h___ are they aiming? lol)

    I also don't know how you've seen over 1000 people and yet you clearly do not count when you leading groups of people. (sorry, I can only guess, maybe you are doing some exploration and taking notes of whoever you saw in battlefield with their names takendown, and you rides fast enough to capture all in a short timeframe for a good result)

    How I wish sometimes GM or dev could just post some statistic for us :(
  • Reiii
    Reiii
    @MrDDT‌ , where are you seeing the population numbers for each faction inside the campaign - maybe i'm blind and just haven't noticed it, if so i'd like to know.

    DC and EP had large numbers during the Oceanic timezone when we first moved to Auriel's Bow, and while AD numbers are strong in this timezone the queue does work - if there is an exploit to avoid the queue then i'm not aware of it or have ever heard of one. I can confirm that there's been a noticeable decrease in DC and EP numbers in the last 2 days after the NA weekend was over but i'm not sure why this is the case when DC and EP had better numbers on the weekdays before this last weekend.

    Regardless of the reason i don't think it is fair to blame the AD oceanic players for anything as we are just playing the game. (edit: This part is more of a reply to the thread starter)
    Edited by Reiii on April 15, 2014 2:27PM
  • MrDDT
    MrDDT
    ✭✭✭
    Maybe I should say something that you might agrees with me, is the quality of players & the organization capability overall.
    There are times where all 3 factions are locked, or AD/DC locked EP at 3bars, if you said you've seen over 1000 in a faction so I guess when DC are locked it has at least 1000players too but the result it produces... well. I believe you seen it too, like 40 men outside a keep but can't do anything or try seige-ing for 20mins or so but no wall is down (where the h___ are they aiming? lol)

    I also don't know how you've seen over 1000 people and yet you clearly do not count when you leading groups of people. (sorry, I can only guess, maybe you are doing some exploration and taking notes of whoever you saw in battlefield with their names takendown, and you rides fast enough to capture all in a short timeframe for a good result)

    How I wish sometimes GM or dev could just post some statistic for us :(

    The campaign numbers are in the API, there is an addon for it. So like I said I do not have to count it tells me how me.

    I'm not saying so and so is better, or zerging or whatever. I'm saying overall the system should change not just on AB, but all the servers.

    You goto wabbajack and you will see it the other way than AB. You see like 10x DC vs EP/AD.

    @orangez0630rwb17_ESO‌ ,
    You are 100% correct that numbers are not everything, but there is a factor to numbers and that needs to be at least handled a little. There are some good guilds and groups out there that you can see are very effective vs huge odds. I've seen a 8 to 10 man group of AD Synapse guild, take on 30+ people at once and clean house while fighting off guards/attacking. So there is no doubt that skilled play can beat numbers.
    My point is that when most of the fights is 3x your numbers, you will likely be on the losing end on many of the fights. Also even a bad raid group can take objectives when they are undefended.
  • Tyens
    Tyens
    I agree they have to cut down on the campaigns as most of them are 1 bar population but what about those people currently invested in those campaign or having fun in them.
    Synapse - SEA/Oceanic Hardcore PvP/RvR
    www.synapse-guild.com
  • Sylvanna
    Sylvanna
    MrDDT wrote: »
    @Sylvanna‌ , I'm sure there are lots of reasons why DC or EP are no longer putting up the numbers as they did before. To list a few you have, some of the guilds left to goto a dead server to own it up. (Like Wabbajack), also the game just released so you expect more people to be playing on release day and the first few days.
    On this server AD was losing by points for the first few days (almost a week) behind DC and EP, so I doubt people left because they were losing. Now after the last few days, I can understand if people were to leave when they are literally fighting 5 to 10x their numbers.

    Good point on more people playing on first few days of release. Headstart was almost a week long so I had forgotten that there were people who didn't pre-order like us.

    AD was indeed losing in the first week (we actually rolled on Dawnbreaker but... you know what happened there so we didn't even participate at all) and we were monitoring the situation in AB, hence our decision to join beginning of last week.

    I'd very much like to think that many have chosen to level up in PvE for awhile, rather than that they plain gave up on PvP. We ourselves have not PvPed as an organized group today in hopes of monitoring the situation as well. (but... maintenance!)

    Hopefully the situation will pick up in a couple of days. Having gone through TA/HoD in GW2, we certainly do not want to open the map when we login and see everything yellow.

    Saw your initiative on Tamriel Foundry to rally your faction as well. +1 to that! (although if this continues, it might be a lost cause.)
  • Chusan_ESO
    Question... Where did all the DC and EP players went?
    I'm pretty sure there's a whole lot less players pvping than usual :/
    Edited by Chusan_ESO on April 15, 2014 2:41PM
  • MrDDT
    MrDDT
    ✭✭✭
    Tyens wrote: »
    I agree they have to cut down on the campaigns as most of them are 1 bar population but what about those people currently invested in those campaign or having fun in them.

    I agree, this is an issue. So I think the real fix is simply put an overflow queue. Meaning if any faction has 1.5x the other 2 factions combined (example, DC has 300, AD has 50, DC has 50, then DC has 3x combined AD+EP numbers) it should start a queue.
    So using the example above. For every 1 person that gets in for AD OR EP, 1.5 DC could join. This would still cause an imbalance but it would not be near as great. This could be done at lower than total capped out campaign numbers.

    If your faction is overpopulated, you will have queues. Which would mean you will need to guest on another one to play. Good news is that you could only guest on ones that are underpopulated, or balanced.
  • rwood0604_ESO
    rwood0604_ESO
    ✭✭✭
    The campaign is beginning to be quite imbalanced by the hours some alliances operate on. Somehow Aldmeri constantly have 2-3x both other faction's numbers at very very off times for North America (2ame-8am est) which they use to run thru all the campaign at night completely unopposed.

    There should be a harder limit imposed on how many more individuals are allowed into a campaign compared to their opponents. Or simply prevent the number of off-continent people allowed to play on NA campaigns.
    The campaign is beginning to be quite imbalanced by the hours some alliances operate on. Somehow Aldmeri constantly have 2-3x both other faction's numbers at very very off times for North America (2ame-8am est) which they use to run thru all the campaign at night completely unopposed.

    There should be a harder limit imposed on how many more individuals are allowed into a campaign compared to their opponents. Or simply prevent the number of off-continent people allowed to play on NA campaigns.

    Ugh are you fracking kidding me, it's bad enough that during the other times of day DC & EP double team AD, I do not favor sides but I mean really requesting stupid changes like this will eventually ruin this game when it's not even needed it's called strategy for the love of all that's holy if you don't like the time you play on it there are other campaigns
  • orangez0630rwb17_ESO
    orangez0630rwb17_ESO
    Soul Shriven
    MrDDT wrote: »

    The campaign numbers are in the API, there is an addon for it. So like I said I do not have to count it tells me how me.

    May I know what's the addon name for it ? interested in the statistic too. Thanks in advance! cheers.
  • Shaggygaming
    Shaggygaming
    ✭✭✭
    DAOC late night relic raids anyone? Ha.
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