PTS Feedback Thread for Nightblade Balance Improvements

C4Bliss · January 2017

f047ys3v3n wrote: »

My first round of hard test data ranged magic toons:

The first thing to say is that when I said this:

f047ys3v3n wrote: »

I'm telling you, I am one of only 2 endgame raiders in the groups I run with still using a magic NB and I have been practicing sorc since the monster proc sets came out because the NB wasn't cutting it and I wanted to stay ranged. You have broken this class with the current change (strife cost increase).

I was mostly wrong. My testing in vMA and in vMoL basically concludes that the change is totally irrelevant for a NB DPS build in PVE. In 12 man raids sustain on the mNB using funnel is still 100% and in vMA the new staff passives more than compensate for the fact that you have to be more serious about hitting siphoning between pulls. You should actually expect your vMA runs to be a bit easier not harder. You will feel the dps gain from the staff passive a lot more than the having to cast siphoning between pulls more. In general, in fact, magica dps is higher than before though, as many have said, a dps increase for all is a dps increase for none and, relative to other magica classes, this is the case for NB.

Dummy testing conditions:
This brings us to round 1 of the dps dummy testing on the new skeleton dummies. For this testing the goal is to approach as closely as possible full raid buffs. As such, a buff toon was created on a friends account for which a macro was written to maintain 100% uptime on the following buffs and debuffs ( engulfing, eled, combat prayer, igneous weapons, infallible, spell power cure.) 100% spell power potion up-time was also used. No alkosh or warhorn was used since alkosh did not fit and warhorn would not be reliable. Rather than writing macros for the dps rotations of the test, which cannot be done for sorc anyway, experts were found for the different classes and the best dps's achieved are the ones here used. The gear used was llambris, BSW, infal, and vMA for this first round which features only ranged magica toons. These sets were previously tested to still be BIS for all 3 ranged builds despite the crit nerf.

Dummy results for round 1, ranged magic single target:
mSorc:
39.81k single target
This build features a 2 bar deep rotation with an infal lightning stave front bar with curse, bound, and inner light and a vMA flame back bar with blockade, liquid, wrath, bound, and inner. It is a light weave build.

mTemplar
32.9k (+3k from raid purifying) = ~35.9k expected single target
So mTemplar cannot really be fully raid buffed in testing because it's best dot, purifying light, stores up damage from all group mates. As such, we have simply added the expected amount here. Obviously mTemplar is usually run melee with sweeps instead of ranged with force pulse but here we illustrate that it can be done ranged with limited efficacy. This build was a medium weave build with 6, 6, 12 rotation featuring unstable wall, purifying, force pulse, and vamp bane on front and radiant oppression on back. Both bars were vMA inferno.

mNB
33.4k dps
First, it should be mentioned that because of the unreliability of mNB funnel builds in procing BSW and llambris dps ranges widely from around 31k to this high of 33.4k. Despite this low proc rate, BSW and llambris are still OP enough to easily be BIS. Proc sets are just much stronger than straight stat sets such as the crafted Julianos or probably even TBS after the warhorn change. This NB was a medium weave 8, 8, 8 rotation with cripple, elemental blockade, funnel, relentless, inner light front bar and sap, imple, blockade, inner light, siphoning on back. A vMA inferno was used both bars. As for using force pulse, to do this gives up the off-heals that are really the only reason for mNB existence now. Testing has also shown a negligible improvement in dps for the switch. You really just become a very bad sorc as a NB running force pulse.

What we can see so far is that even with testing restricted to the pure single target variety and ranged, such that mNB is favored in both cases, mNB still greatly under-performs doing 16% less dps than the leading sorc and almost 10% less than a mTemp build nobody even uses. We tried a variety of different other options for the mNB including a 2 bar light weave scathing build with twisting path but the simpler BSW medium weave build was the most we could get out of it. I expect it will only get much worse for the mNB in the next round of testing because cleave damage is the heart of raids right now and almost all sorc damage skills do this whereas little of what the mNB does.

-47

Would you be so kind to explain me what you mean with medium Weave 8 8 8?

Also if i light weave with kena, scathing, ia, combo inferno lightning i get higher parses.

f047ys3v3n · January 2017

C4Bliss wrote: »

Would you be so kind to explain me what you mean with medium Weave 8 8 8?

Also if i light weave with kena, scathing, ia, combo inferno lightning i get higher parses.

A medium weave is a weave where the left mouse (attack key) is pressed immediately after an ability cast key and released momentarily while the next instant cast ability key is pressed before being immediately pressed and held again. The result of this is that the weapon attacks between abilities are partially charged heavy attacks instead of light attacks and hit for more like 11k than 5k. That heavy attack damage difference as well as significantly lower resource usage (lower abilities / min cast) is the advantage. The disadvantages are that, with a slightly slower time per cast fewer abilities are used. Also, bar swaps truncate the attack charge time and therefore cost dps instead of being essentially neutral as they are with light attack weaves. Back in the pre-1.6 days attacks were more damage relative to skills than they now are and medium weaves were almost universal. Attacks have since been greatly reduced relative to abilities and so light weaves are more common. Still some dinosaur's such as myself do the old way. With mNB I think it is actually still better because you have few good abilities and can front bar them all. With most everything else light weaves are better as it is better for 2 bar deep rotations and easier to deal with on channeled abilities.

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Why is your damage so low? Unbuffed im getting 35k on sorc and NB...wih buffs both should be well over 40k sorc closer to 50k

Guess I just suck and all the players I play with suck. Glad your so OP. I posted all the bars, buffs, and enough rotation detail I really doubt that you are having trouble following and therefore have difficulty taking your question as anything but a troll comment. Now that test dummies are a thing experimenting with rotations will be relatively easy to do perhaps I will find out how to not suck so much. Maybe your numbers are even legit and your not Lance Armstrong in the Tour de France. I can't say that I am confident one way or another. Close to 20% error in my NB build and rotation and Akimbro's sorc rotation is a bit hard for me to swallow though now that I have been able to test in a controlled environment will all raid buffs except warhorn and Alkosh at 100%. Are you really buffing up and pulling 50k on a test dummy with your mSorc or is this what you have done on fights with adds in trials?

HuawaSepp · January 2017

f047ys3v3n wrote: »

Are you really buffing up and pulling 50k on a test dummy with your mSorc or is this what you have done on fights with adds in trials?

I can't imagine someone could get much better results than you, with the same setup.
If someone had 20 guys warhorn spamming and wear the ultimate burst setup you will see higher numbers, but thats not important here.

In lorkaj my dmg is between 25 and 45k cause of good/bad support, rezzing, time and mobs/positioning. So much factors...

You have done a good and legit test, no doubt.

hedna123b14_ESO · January 2017

f047ys3v3n wrote: »

C4Bliss wrote: »

Would you be so kind to explain me what you mean with medium Weave 8 8 8?

Also if i light weave with kena, scathing, ia, combo inferno lightning i get higher parses.

A medium weave is a weave where the left mouse (attack key) is pressed immediately after an ability cast key and released momentarily while the next instant cast ability key is pressed before being immediately pressed and held again. The result of this is that the weapon attacks between abilities are partially charged heavy attacks instead of light attacks and hit for more like 11k than 5k. That heavy attack damage difference as well as significantly lower resource usage (lower abilities / min cast) is the advantage. The disadvantages are that, with a slightly slower time per cast fewer abilities are used. Also, bar swaps truncate the attack charge time and therefore cost dps instead of being essentially neutral as they are with light attack weaves. Back in the pre-1.6 days attacks were more damage relative to skills than they now are and medium weaves were almost universal. Attacks have since been greatly reduced relative to abilities and so light weaves are more common. Still some dinosaur's such as myself do the old way. With mNB I think it is actually still better because you have few good abilities and can front bar them all. With most everything else light weaves are better as it is better for 2 bar deep rotations and easier to deal with on channeled abilities.

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Why is your damage so low? Unbuffed im getting 35k on sorc and NB...wih buffs both should be well over 40k sorc closer to 50k

Guess I just suck and all the players I play with suck. Glad your so OP. I posted all the bars, buffs, and enough rotation detail I really doubt that you are having trouble following and therefore have difficulty taking your question as anything but a troll comment. Now that test dummies are a thing experimenting with rotations will be relatively easy to do perhaps I will find out how to not suck so much. Maybe your numbers are even legit and your not Lance Armstrong in the Tour de France. I can't say that I am confident one way or another. Close to 20% error in my NB build and rotation and Akimbro's sorc rotation is a bit hard for me to swallow though now that I have been able to test in a controlled environment will all raid buffs except warhorn and Alkosh at 100%. Are you really buffing up and pulling 50k on a test dummy with your mSorc or is this what you have done on fights with adds in trials?

Im by no means OP, however the numbers you posted and the analysis you did are interrelated. Your analysis makes claims based on those numbers.
1. mSorc - 39k fully buffed?
http://imgur.com/a/hxbuw <

My Unbuffed Parse (by no means best) note I don't even use frags.

2. mTemplar - Why post a Force Pulse Based build at all since literally no one will ever run it? Here is my unbuffed parse:
http://imgur.com/a/SRcoA I get that you are trying to compare range dps, but neither the DK nor Templar can competitively rDPS...

3. mNB - Has potential, but still lacks behind sorc (Ill agree with you there), but raid buffed dps of 33.4k? Funnel health? NB use Force Pulse...
http://imgur.com/a/R8nav <

Unbuffed (sort of) parse...I had healer use Combat Prayer and I took Merciless off my bars entirely since it slowed down my FP weaves too much...not a legit unbuffed parse since I have Combat Prayer, but I can assure if I had SPC/PA/ and the other buffs it would be 45-50k...

Friend's sorc DPS parses (he is a much better sorc than I) from PTS:
Fully buffed single target - http://i.imgur.com/bew4fA4.png
Unbuffed with a pet - http://i.imgur.com/DgLx8Ro.jpg
Unbuffed without pet - http://i.imgur.com/zp3qrui.jpg

A guildie's Unbuffed NB DPS parse (again a much better NB than I) - http://imgur.com/a/cVICg

Im not here to tell you you suck, but this is the 3rd thread made by you over the past few months with in-depth analysis of classes and their strengths and tbh judging from how severely those parses underperform I dont think you are qualified to make such an analysis regarding those classes. Thats the main issue I have with it. It wouldnt be an issue if you had said that it is your opinion, however you present your findings as fact, which is simply false...

P.S.: You find twisting a DPS loss? Pardon my French but ***??? Its not Ele Blockade or Liquid Lightning, but it does a decent amount of damage...6-7% of DPS single target and 10-16% in AoE...

ZOS_GinaBruno · January 2017

Hey guys, thanks for posting all your thoughts and feedback on the Nightblade changes thus far. We do have some adjustments planned for next week's PTS patch, and look forward to hearing what you think once you have a chance to test them out. We'll be sharing these changes a little later this week so you know what to expect.

VelociousLegend · January 2017

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys, thanks for posting all your thoughts and feedback on the Nightblade changes thus far. We do have some adjustments planned for next week's PTS patch, and look forward to hearing what you think once you have a chance to test them out. We'll be sharing these changes a little later this week so you know what to expect.

@ZOS_GinaBruno great! Hopefully you guys are implementing some of the things we suggested.

C4Bliss · January 2017

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys, thanks for posting all your thoughts and feedback on the Nightblade changes thus far. We do have some adjustments planned for next week's PTS patch, and look forward to hearing what you think once you have a chance to test them out. We'll be sharing these changes a little later this week so you know what to expect.

Looking forward 2 it!

Silver_Strider · January 2017

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys, thanks for posting all your thoughts and feedback on the Nightblade changes thus far. We do have some adjustments planned for next week's PTS patch, and look forward to hearing what you think once you have a chance to test them out. We'll be sharing these changes a little later this week so you know what to expect.

Translation:

Strife increase has been changed to 35%, down from 38%. The damage has been reduced by 5% to compensate.

kaithuzar · January 2017

Something to consider...
It's Lore Breaking & breaking my immersion in game that a "magical assassin" has to use a staff over swords...

Danse_Mayhem · January 2017

Hi Gina, Thankyou in advance for considering feedback from the community. As someone who has played a magicka Nightblade for a long time now, I have some suggestions for the abilities. I don't think Magicka NB is underpowered, and I think a straight up buff to the class would tip the balance too far - Like proximity detonation / Vicious Death did with the thieves guild update.

However I do think some of the abilities need to be looked at. The cost increase to Strife is fair, and the new change to Manifestation or Terror looks lots of fun!

Agony - Great skill, but both morphs do essentially the same thing in practise and could be much more varied / Useful

Soul shred - The healing morph Soul Siphon is extremely useless, perhaps an alternative morph could be looked at? Maybe a morph that gives major protection for allies within range for X seconds, a long heal over time or something.

Shadow Image - I believe this would be much better if it could be placed without needing a target, at the players location.

Assassins will - I saw that the patch notes indicate that this can only scale from max magicka and spell damage now. Will that mean that it no longer benefits from Empower, minor berserk (It's own buff) and stealth passives? With this essentially being a damage nerf, perhaps a better snare could be added to it, such as a knockdown, fear or even a 2-3 second root. The current speed debuff is not great when compared to Crystal fragments on a sorceor which causes a knock down, and almost as much damage in certain situations, but is arguably easier to use.

I don't believe that these changes would ruin the class or make it too powerful in PVE or PVP, but I think it would make better use of some morphs.

Please let me know what you think or if this kind of thing will be looked into,
Kind regards

mr_wazzabi · January 2017

Danse_Mayhem wrote: »

Hi Gina, Thankyou in advance for considering feedback from the community. As someone who has played a magicka Nightblade for a long time now, I have some suggestions for the abilities. I don't think Magicka NB is underpowered, and I think a straight up buff to the class would tip the balance too far - Like proximity detonation / Vicious Death did with the thieves guild update.

However I do think some of the abilities need to be looked at. The cost increase to Strife is fair, and the new change to Manifestation or Terror looks lots of fun!

Agony - Great skill, but both morphs do essentially the same thing in practise and could be much more varied / Useful

Soul shred - The healing morph Soul Siphon is extremely useless, perhaps an alternative morph could be looked at? Maybe a morph that gives major protection for allies within range for X seconds, a long heal over time or something.

Shadow Image - I believe this would be much better if it could be placed without needing a target, at the players location.

Assassins will - I saw that the patch notes indicate that this can only scale from max magicka and spell damage now. Will that mean that it no longer benefits from Empower, minor berserk (It's own buff) and stealth passives? With this essentially being a damage nerf, perhaps a better snare could be added to it, such as a knockdown, fear or even a 2-3 second root. The current speed debuff is not great when compared to Crystal fragments on a sorceor which causes a knock down, and almost as much damage in certain situations, but is arguably easier to use.

I don't believe that these changes would ruin the class or make it too powerful in PVE or PVP, but I think it would make better use of some morphs.

Please let me know what you think or if this kind of thing will be looked into,
Kind regards

Well.......you can still complete content, but the nb is lowest overall in dps. Talk to anyone that does hardcore dps tests on multiple characters.

Main issue is we have the weakest class ground dot in the game, path of darkness. If they buff that to liquid lightning level and adjust some of the crit passives so we're not as affected by the war horn nerf, make relentlezs focus recast on shooting the arrow or work like crystal frag (no cast proc detection, glow when ready to shoot) and also delete the planned strife cost increase nerf, nb will be caught up with the rest.

H4RDFOX · January 2017

Danse_Mayhem wrote: »

Assassins will - I saw that the patch notes indicate that this can only scale from max magicka and spell damage now. Will that mean that it no longer benefits from Empower, minor berserk (It's own buff) and stealth passives? With this essentially being a damage nerf, perhaps a better snare could be added to it, such as a knockdown, fear or even a 2-3 second root. The current speed debuff is not great when compared to Crystal fragments on a sorceor which causes a knock down, and almost as much damage in certain situations, but is arguably easier to use.

This seems like a reasonable thing to look into with grim focus. Fear, root, or knockdown from this ability would be a cool addition but 2-3 seconds would be too long, and having mass hysteria ability may rule out fear. Maybe if there was something like a dot on that target, and every few hits procs the ability, unless it is dispelled.

ScruffyWhiskers · January 2017

I know that a lot of concerns here are for PvE/PvP range magicka nb's with destro but please take a good look at PVP melee magicka nb performance. It feels like we are all being prodded to pick up the magic sticks and I would really like to keep dual swords on my front bar.

Aztlan · January 2017

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Stamblades don't specifically need a nerf. But stealth damage does. The stun and damage bonus on stealth attacks must go.

I disagree with this 100%. Devastating damage from stealth should remain a viable niche build, especially for PvP. This helps keep organized groups and small groups on their toes as they move around the map, and also serves a strategic role in the campaign as gankers help slow reinforcements to keeps under siege, for example.

Aztlan · January 2017

I would love to see the size and range of Lacerate and its morphs increased somewhat. It is difficult to effectively target in a dynamic environment, and so most NBs still prefer Dawnbreaker of Smiting or Shooting Star.

Woeler · January 2017

kaithuzar wrote: »

The plain & simple is that EU is a different animal than NA.
I would almost say it's a morality thing. EU seems to be brought up on the old school "for king/queen & country", while NA is more "Jesus would want me to have a big bank acct/win at any cost"

EU guilds 1574 (colourized)

Upright_man · January 2017

LiquidPony wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

VigilantLance wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Yeah, but we are addresing mageblades here...

That's not what the title thread says.

PTS Feedback Thread for Nightblade Balance Improvements

Stamblades are almost no NBs.. just stam weapons carriers. Just 5 skill morphs and a couple of passives.

If we want to improve classes, we should focus on improving magicka, which is the DNA of every class.

In other words: "I prefer Magicka so let's just ignore Stamina and focus on what I like."

Magblades are just sub-par sorcs. Just play a sorc. How does that sound?

That cracked me up @LiquidPony

@Xvorg what do you mean by magicka being the DNA of every class?
are you saying they should scrap stamina users from the game completely?
It feels kind of like ZoS agrees from a PvE perspective.

damn magic using weapon carriers.. 5 skills morphed + an ulti and a couple passives

Upright_man · January 2017

Footfalls wrote: »

I see this is a 'now mag nb sucks more' thread, but thoughts about grim focus being changed to stam cost for NBs?

I don't like it cause I always have extra magicka on my stam NB so I can always reapply it, but I can see the reasoning that "it's a disease damage ability so it should cost stam"

I thought the same as you @Footfalls. from a PVE perspective. I think @Brrrofski may be talking about PVP.

I need stamina for everything else.. this and siphoning strikes were the only magicka skills and it worked out ok.

Guess we will have plenty of magicka for Siphoning strikes....

HuawaSepp · January 2017

xblackroxe wrote: »

Wait Funnel is considered a DOT.
The ***?

Yeah xD. Maybe cause of the HOT

Brrrofski · January 2017

cpuScientist wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Footfalls wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Footfalls wrote: »

I see this is a 'now mag nb sucks more' thread, but thoughts about grim focus being changed to stam cost for NBs?

I don't like it cause I always have extra magicka on my stam NB so I can always reapply it, but I can see the reasoning that "it's a disease damage ability so it should cost stam"

It is the last nail in the coffin of melee magblade.

Sorry, I meant relentless focus. The stam morph of grim focus now costs stam instead of mag.

I know. Melee magblades used the stamina regen morph as the bow proc is unreliable to proc in melee combat and added stamina regen helped in dodging and general maneuver needed. But if it costs stamina, the regen becomes not worthwhile enough as stamina is an expensive resource for magicka builds.

Unless they also built into stam regen, that bonus rid nothing. So if they were putting stam regen on their jewelry or had armor with it or taking the serpent then this does absolutely nothing.

NB passives

Upright_man wrote: »

Footfalls wrote: »

I see this is a 'now mag nb sucks more' thread, but thoughts about grim focus being changed to stam cost for NBs?

I don't like it cause I always have extra magicka on my stam NB so I can always reapply it, but I can see the reasoning that "it's a disease damage ability so it should cost stam"

I thought the same as you @Footfalls. from a PVE perspective. I think @Brrrofski may be talking about PVP.

I need stamina for everything else.. this and siphoning strikes were the only magicka skills and it worked out ok.

Guess we will have plenty of magicka for Siphoning strikes....

Yeh, I was talking about PvP. It frees magica up for more cloak and fear in PvP.

In PvE I guess it is a nerf.

thankyourat · January 2017

Silver_Strider wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys, thanks for posting all your thoughts and feedback on the Nightblade changes thus far. We do have some adjustments planned for next week's PTS patch, and look forward to hearing what you think once you have a chance to test them out. We'll be sharing these changes a little later this week so you know what to expect.

Translation:

Strife increase has been changed to 35%, down from 38%. The damage has been reduced by 5% to compensate.

Lol

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys, thanks for posting all your thoughts and feedback on the Nightblade changes thus far. We do have some adjustments planned for next week's PTS patch, and look forward to hearing what you think once you have a chance to test them out. We'll be sharing these changes a little later this week so you know what to expect.

Please add some snare and root removal and immunization. I think that would fix most of the PvP issues magblades face

Jaronking · January 2017

thankyourat wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys, thanks for posting all your thoughts and feedback on the Nightblade changes thus far. We do have some adjustments planned for next week's PTS patch, and look forward to hearing what you think once you have a chance to test them out. We'll be sharing these changes a little later this week so you know what to expect.

Translation:

Strife increase has been changed to 35%, down from 38%. The damage has been reduced by 5% to compensate.

Lol

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys, thanks for posting all your thoughts and feedback on the Nightblade changes thus far. We do have some adjustments planned for next week's PTS patch, and look forward to hearing what you think once you have a chance to test them out. We'll be sharing these changes a little later this week so you know what to expect.

Please add some snare and root removal and immunization. I think that would fix most of the PvP issues magblades face

@ZOS_GinaBruno can we have a discussion talking about Gap closer snares and how 3-4 players gap closing you will make you immobilized.

kojou · January 2017

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys, thanks for posting all your thoughts and feedback on the Nightblade changes thus far. We do have some adjustments planned for next week's PTS patch, and look forward to hearing what you think once you have a chance to test them out. We'll be sharing these changes a little later this week so you know what to expect.

I will hold my enthusiasm for when I see the changes, but I am glad these aren't the final "balance changes" for Nightblade on this update.

Please no more gimmicky useless alterations to skills. I just want some plain vanilla stuff like:

- Increased damage for Agony by 30% and changed duration for Prolonged Suffering to 8 seconds.
- Increased duration of Refreshing/Twisting Path to 16 Seconds
- Merciless Resolve now resets its counter upon cast of the spectral arrow.
- Impale now deals 300% damage at 35% of the targets health.

If I can have just one of these I will be a happier Magi-Blade.

olsborg · January 2017

It would be awesome if one morph of either path of darkness or agony got a stamina morph somehow. Also, im curious to see if you guys made cloak a reliable skill with this patch.

Upright_man · January 2017

Paneross wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Paneross wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

This is the official feedback thread for the Nightblade for Update 13. Please let us know how you feel about the changes we made to this class, if you ran into any bugs, and any other feedback you'd like to give.

Why was Incap not adjusted in ANY way. Keep the damage, sure. BUT FOR THE LOVE OF EVERYTHING increase the ultimate cost. Stamblades are using the ult every 5seconds and it's taking 80% of your health in Full Heavy + impen because of procs that come with it.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

For the love of god, how many posts will you on this?

How will non-proc gankers function without it?

Why will a class be nerfed unbalanced proc sets?

Non proc gankers will be fine as they stun from stealth?

Incap is giving too much for it's ult cost. Increase cost to 75 and change the cc to cc's if they are lower and thats it.

Still do the same damage, still have the OP effects on it.

It's just annoying this it's basically part of a nb's dps rotation because it's always up.

For some players like myself this is true because i do not use Fear. Even though Fear is very op for my build id rather not relie on it but instead utilize the stun from surprise attack and incap for combo's. The 50 ult cost lets me chew out incaps rather frequently and id hate to loose this aspect to my build.

I personally think the damage should just be lowered if anything. The healing debuff, increased damage and stun is what really matter in my opinion. If its doing to much damage injunction with proc sets and such just lower its damage.

A honest NB for once. Far from the typical "Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaasaaaaaaaa I should be able to kill anyone in 3 seconds whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Heavy Armor OP because it takes me an extra seconds to kill them WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA"

@Paneross are you seriously doing a sarcastic cry about this while you cry over and over again about incap in this thread?

Bit ironic isnt it...

Not that i give two craps about it, nerf it if itll stop peoples endless tears about getting rekt in pvp by what should be a gank burst class.

Then we can go back to constructive feedback...

Upright_man · January 2017

Brrrofski wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Footfalls wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Footfalls wrote: »

I see this is a 'now mag nb sucks more' thread, but thoughts about grim focus being changed to stam cost for NBs?

I don't like it cause I always have extra magicka on my stam NB so I can always reapply it, but I can see the reasoning that "it's a disease damage ability so it should cost stam"

It is the last nail in the coffin of melee magblade.

Sorry, I meant relentless focus. The stam morph of grim focus now costs stam instead of mag.

I know. Melee magblades used the stamina regen morph as the bow proc is unreliable to proc in melee combat and added stamina regen helped in dodging and general maneuver needed. But if it costs stamina, the regen becomes not worthwhile enough as stamina is an expensive resource for magicka builds.

Unless they also built into stam regen, that bonus rid nothing. So if they were putting stam regen on their jewelry or had armor with it or taking the serpent then this does absolutely nothing.

NB passives

Upright_man wrote: »

Footfalls wrote: »

I see this is a 'now mag nb sucks more' thread, but thoughts about grim focus being changed to stam cost for NBs?

I don't like it cause I always have extra magicka on my stam NB so I can always reapply it, but I can see the reasoning that "it's a disease damage ability so it should cost stam"

I thought the same as you @Footfalls. from a PVE perspective. I think @Brrrofski may be talking about PVP.

I need stamina for everything else.. this and siphoning strikes were the only magicka skills and it worked out ok.

Guess we will have plenty of magicka for Siphoning strikes....

Yeh, I was talking about PvP. It frees magica up for more cloak and fear in PvP.

In PvE I guess it is a nerf.

Yep completely understand your side of the discussion too though.

Now i guess we weigh up if its worth spending that stamina to have the 10% stamina recovery + damage buff.

thats the difficulty isnt it, not killing pve while resolving a pvp issue or vice versa.

Katahdin · January 2017

Stapes wrote: »

Ambush (Teleport Strike morph) - Scale off Magicka

Lotus Fan (Teleport Strike morph) - Scale off Stamina

I that the utility provided by each skill would actually suit and balance the separate classes much better. Removing empower from a stamina nightblade in PvP would reduce their damage slightly as one of the highest burst damage classes but also give magicka nightblades that slight buff for concealed weapon.

Hell no. You can leave these just the way they are for stamina thank you very much.
Ambush works just fine for SNB as it is. It would not suit the classes better, it would neuter SNB to the ground.
Stam NB need to be able to burst damage at the outset to have a chance at downing someone. Its how the class is designed. They have very little survivability and sustain after that initial burst. You take that initial damage away and the chance at getting the kill is reduced dramatically.

I get it that you guys want MNB buffed but lets not destroy SNB in the process.
Lets not make this into a SNB vs MNB arguement.

The problem isnt SNB doing what they were designed to do, The problem is the proc set cancer we have in Cyro right now that needs to be nerfed or removed.

Stapes wrote: »

Concealed Weapon (Veiled Strike morph) - Move to Assassination tree. Increase damage by 5-10% OR change to unresistable damage OR apply major/minor breach.

This does not need to be moved. If you increase it for MNB then SNB needs to have an equal amount of damage.

thankyourat · January 2017

Jaronking wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys, thanks for posting all your thoughts and feedback on the Nightblade changes thus far. We do have some adjustments planned for next week's PTS patch, and look forward to hearing what you think once you have a chance to test them out. We'll be sharing these changes a little later this week so you know what to expect.

Translation:

Strife increase has been changed to 35%, down from 38%. The damage has been reduced by 5% to compensate.

Lol

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys, thanks for posting all your thoughts and feedback on the Nightblade changes thus far. We do have some adjustments planned for next week's PTS patch, and look forward to hearing what you think once you have a chance to test them out. We'll be sharing these changes a little later this week so you know what to expect.

Please add some snare and root removal and immunization. I think that would fix most of the PvP issues magblades face

@ZOS_GinaBruno can we have a discussion talking about Gap closer snares and how 3-4 players gap closing you will make you immobilized.

Katahdin · January 2017

Valwe wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Stamblades don't specifically need a nerf. But stealth damage does. The stun and damage bonus on stealth attacks must go.

I disagree with this 100%. Devastating damage from stealth should remain a viable niche build, especially for PvP. This helps keep organized groups and small groups on their toes as they move around the map, and also serves a strategic role in the campaign as gankers help slow reinforcements to keeps under siege, for example.

I agree with Valwe here. High damage from stealth is the hallmark of the NB and add a new dimension to PvP even though it can be annoying.

Strider_Roshin · January 2017

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys, thanks for posting all your thoughts and feedback on the Nightblade changes thus far. We do have some adjustments planned for next week's PTS patch, and look forward to hearing what you think once you have a chance to test them out. We'll be sharing these changes a little later this week so you know what to expect.

Looking forward to the nerf!