Why haven't you done a dungeon yet?

Enemy-of-Coldharbour · August 2016

What keeps me from doing dungeons (any group content lately) is this damn desto/XP bug that is going around. My sorceress is a liability if she keeps freezing in place every time XP is earned. I could go back to Cyrodiil with my Stamblade but I want to finish leveling my sorceress. So, I'm stuck with spotty solo play for now.

Lysette · August 2016

DenMoria wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

DenMoria wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

AKSb16_ESO2 wrote: »

Ok, and now you are grouping up and the people in your group are french, german and polish, for example.

I do not speak french at all, but I watch Elloa's videos, her ESO news in french, to get a feeling for the language and the context which is familiar to me, helps with understanding and so I hope that over time, even I do not speak the language myself, I get used to how it is spoken and I will understand more and more over time - even I do not speak it myself.

You will. You will.

I guess I will, rather quickly than not - simply, because I never translate, but just get it from the context and so I get used to the words and phrases and understand them without translation - and this is my goal, to understand it directly.

Assuredly, you will. My other 1/2 didn't speak a lick of French not 6 months ago, but, since he's been playing with me on the EU, he's picked up quite a bit. I've never been fluent, but, have always enjoyed foreign films so I understand quite a bit (BTW: wouldn't a US film be a "foreign film" if it's being seen in a country outside the US?).

What is strange to me is, that some folks in the US have a problem with understanding southern dialects or texan - I never really had a problem with that myself - but there are a couple of dialects in England, where I tend to struggle sometimes - I will give you an example

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gi_6SaqVQSw

DenMoria · August 2016

Lysette wrote: »

DenMoria wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

DenMoria wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

AKSb16_ESO2 wrote: »

Ok, and now you are grouping up and the people in your group are french, german and polish, for example.

I do not speak french at all, but I watch Elloa's videos, her ESO news in french, to get a feeling for the language and the context which is familiar to me, helps with understanding and so I hope that over time, even I do not speak the language myself, I get used to how it is spoken and I will understand more and more over time - even I do not speak it myself.

You will. You will.

I guess I will, rather quickly than not - simply, because I never translate, but just get it from the context and so I get used to the words and phrases and understand them without translation - and this is my goal, to understand it directly.

Assuredly, you will. My other 1/2 didn't speak a lick of French not 6 months ago, but, since he's been playing with me on the EU, he's picked up quite a bit. I've never been fluent, but, have always enjoyed foreign films so I understand quite a bit (BTW: wouldn't a US film be a "foreign film" if it's being seen in a country outside the US?).

What is strange to me is, that some folks in the US have a problem with understanding southern dialects or texan - I never really had a problem with that myself - but there are a couple of dialects in England, where I tend to struggle sometimes - I will give you an example

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gi_6SaqVQSw

For me it's deep East London and Welsh. I can handle rural Scottish or Irish, or even Cornwall, but not E. London or Welsh. Weird.

AtmaDarkwolf · August 2016

DenMoria wrote: »

AtmaDarkwolf wrote: »

Bouldercleave wrote: »

AtmaDarkwolf wrote: »

Are you kidding? Do a group dungeon with other people? Seriously? HELL NO, thats not why I play MMOG's.

I play giant social games full of thousands of other people to keep away from them. Duh.

People play social games with thousands of people for many different reasons. Mine may differ greatly from yours.

I personally don't play to do hardcore group content but enjoy the social aspects of guilds, crafting, RPing, and being social in general.

Your attitude alone is a main reason that I despise group content and many of the people in it. Duh.

Thats fine, your attitude (Of deciding what Mine was with my post :P) means i would prob not enjoy you around me either.

I have this thing called humor, and I find it amusing how 95% of people are pretty easy going, willing and able to both learn and teach, and receptive/accepting of mistakes and 'issues' in online games(being the NATURE of online games) yet that 5% who are hardcore elitist tools and those silly RP 'I wanna pretend I'm awesome so won't learn a thing' (Two separate ends of spectrum here, which total prob 5% of all players IF that) can foul the waters for the vast majority who WOULD enjoy the aspects of the game, but come to fear it because of the reactions and 'attitudes' of the above.

Where are these 95% of whom you speak? In my experience over the last couple of years it's been more along the line of 50/50, so, apparently I'm missing an entire 45% of the population. Either that or I'm just such a reprehensible jerk that nobody likes me.

you said it, not I.

Truth is, when going in 'fresh' in any 'social' aspect, so very, very few will be the elitist (they simply can't be, they're too new) or the 'play my way' (Again, have to learn the very basics first, which all must do)

Comes a time when you must look around and think 'is it that everyone else is a big wad, or is it just me?' (IE: when 99 out of 100 get along, but you 'don't' does it mean THEY all hate you just cuz your you, or is it maybe how you act toward them. Like, maybe for example, taking a light hearted humorous post as a directed slight against you and only you.)

Lysette · August 2016

DenMoria wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

DenMoria wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

DenMoria wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

AKSb16_ESO2 wrote: »

Ok, and now you are grouping up and the people in your group are french, german and polish, for example.

I do not speak french at all, but I watch Elloa's videos, her ESO news in french, to get a feeling for the language and the context which is familiar to me, helps with understanding and so I hope that over time, even I do not speak the language myself, I get used to how it is spoken and I will understand more and more over time - even I do not speak it myself.

You will. You will.

I guess I will, rather quickly than not - simply, because I never translate, but just get it from the context and so I get used to the words and phrases and understand them without translation - and this is my goal, to understand it directly.

Assuredly, you will. My other 1/2 didn't speak a lick of French not 6 months ago, but, since he's been playing with me on the EU, he's picked up quite a bit. I've never been fluent, but, have always enjoyed foreign films so I understand quite a bit (BTW: wouldn't a US film be a "foreign film" if it's being seen in a country outside the US?).

What is strange to me is, that some folks in the US have a problem with understanding southern dialects or texan - I never really had a problem with that myself - but there are a couple of dialects in England, where I tend to struggle sometimes - I will give you an example

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gi_6SaqVQSw

For me it's deep East London and Welsh. I can handle rural Scottish or Irish, or even Cornwall, but not E. London or Welsh. Weird.

There you say something - I tried to watch a movie lately which played in east London, in one of the poorer boroughs, but I don't remember which one it was - the language was not just hard to understand but it was disgusting in the choice of words, that I just stopped watching it - hard to understand and overall ghetto-like nasty talk - that is not my kind of movie.

Duxes · August 2016

Hallothiel wrote: »

Just wary of doing them for many of the reasons listed above but also as my nb is not an 'optimal' build but has lots of CP & I don't want people to think I am experienced when I don't have a clue.

Although did do non-vet City of Ash once almost by accident. Was skyshard hunting & saw people lurking outside who asked if I wanted to group. Said yes & then was off on a dizzy manic ride through CoA. Lord knows what we were doing, just seemed to be running around killing what we could, no real plan, no healer, no tank, no way to communicate (PS4) - all died at one point but just rezzed & got on with it. But we did it. And yes, it was fabulous fun.

So maybe the problem is I have now overthought the whole thing....

But also that I am rather shy & so not good with voice chat. Sooooo looking forward to text chat on the PS4.

I'm pretty shy as well and I can't use my mic most of the time. Send me a friend request. I'm down to help if you ever need it or want to try a dungeon. malamute_85

phreatophile · August 2016

I've played since day one and had never done a dungeon until two months ago for most of the reasons I see here. I belong to a casual guild that does weekly dungeon nights, and I finally jumped in on a whim for one and loved it. The two things that made it fun were Teamspeak and laid back players. Don't hop into group finder with strangers and hope for the best, some people really really suck, not at the game, but at being humans. Guild groups are usually a great way to begin.

I can tell you that if you give them a chance, group dungeons are a lot of fun. PUGS can be awful or a lot of fun depending on who's in them. I've had some great ones with people who were really thankful to be grouped with someone who didn't need to do it as an all out forced march.

I've also had some that we laugh about still. I remember one where 2 guys couldn't even wait 10sec for me to change something on my back bar without berating me so both of us DPS bailed, the guy spent the next hour sending us tells about how awesome his run was with whomever groupfinder placed them with. Something about "still waiting for people to wait for you" was all he kept saying. By this time we'd finished another dungeon with some decent folks, but this guy's ego wouldn't let it go. His character name is still synonymous with being a jerk with a few of us.

The point of all that rambling is: don't let jerks keep you from something you might enjoy, that is giving them entirely too much unearned power over you, laugh at them. Listen enough to see if there's any wisdom buried in their antisocial rantings but think of what kind of miserable person gets that nasty to a stranger over a game, and shrug it off.

anitajoneb17_ESO · August 2016

Lysette wrote: »

AKSb16_ESO2 wrote: »

One point that was not mentioned yet. But I guess that's more an european problem: Languages.
European server has lot of different languages. ^^ Teamspeak with 4 different languages is not very effective. ^^
Not everyone can speak english very well. ^^
Text chat is working better, but it's still a thing for people not to do dungeons.

On the other hand, this is the perfect opportunity to learn the language from native speakers.

LOL, I have to strongly disagree with that...

In theory, you're right.
In practice however...
- You have no guarantee that someone speaks properly just because they're native speakers. Many of my french guildies speak (and write) HORRIBLE, and I mean HORRIBLE french.
- While I cannot always identify mistakes, I assume it's the same for english native speakers. Many of them probably speak a horrible english - and many horribly written posts here on this forum prove that many native english speakers write - and probably speak - horribly.
- In EU international guilds do set english as the communication language, but it's a mix of all kinds of people from various nationalities, languages and cultural backgrounds, it results in some sort of soup. So-called "international english" is a soup anyway.

It's enough to communicate for a dungeon or trial, but assuming it's an opportunity to learn is a big, big step.

I try not to be a "grammar ***", but when it comes to learning, I believe that not learning at all is better than learning wrong things. Opinions on this matter usually vary.

Also, I'm not saying that everyone speaks bad. Just that enough people speak bad so that it's quite hazardous to "learn" this way, since we cannot really filter the good from the bad.

Lysette · August 2016

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

AKSb16_ESO2 wrote: »

One point that was not mentioned yet. But I guess that's more an european problem: Languages.
European server has lot of different languages. ^^ Teamspeak with 4 different languages is not very effective. ^^
Not everyone can speak english very well. ^^
Text chat is working better, but it's still a thing for people not to do dungeons.

On the other hand, this is the perfect opportunity to learn the language from native speakers.

LOL, I have to strongly disagree with that...

In theory, you're right.
In practice however...
- You have no guarantee that someone speaks properly just because they're native speakers. Many of my french guildies speak (and write) HORRIBLE, and I mean HORRIBLE french.
- While I cannot always identify mistakes, I assume it's the same for english native speakers. Many of them probably speak a horrible english - and many horribly written posts here on this forum prove that many native english speakers write - and probably speak - horribly.
- In EU international guilds do set english as the communication language, but it's a mix of all kinds of people from various nationalities, languages and cultural backgrounds, it results in some sort of soup. So-called "international english" is a soup anyway.

It's enough to communicate for a dungeon or trial, but assuming it's an opportunity to learn is a big, big step.

I try not to be a "grammar ***", but when it comes to learning, I believe that not learning at all is better than learning wrong things. Opinions on this matter usually vary.

Also, I'm not saying that everyone speaks bad. Just that enough people speak bad so that it's quite hazardous to "learn" this way, since we cannot really filter the good from the bad.

I have experienced this as well, that spelling is not necessarily a strength of native speakers when it comes to english - but I was more thinking of speaking than writing. You cannot learn a language just from it being written, you have to hear it to get the sound and tone of how it is said. And you will find out pretty quickly, if those are people with some educated background or not, if you speak privately with them - about their life and other things - I do not group up with people, where I do not know at least a little about their background - and I avoid those, who have a nasty language as well.

My dad is an english teacher, so I got the writing mainly from him, but I avoided to learn to speak english from him, because he never lost a german accent - and this is unfortunately true for most of german english teachers I know. London was a good way to learn for me, because it was every day's english, from people coming from a lot of cultures, but all more or less adopted the tone of Londoner english - it differs a lot from borough to borough though, but it has a common tone to it, something you just find in London - and so I speak mainly like this, even with this weird way to not pronounce "t" sometimes - like saying "be'er" instead of "better" and "Whah" instead of "what?" or to not pronounce "w" in the middle of words - typical would be Lewisham, a south-eastern borough of London - which is pronounced like "Lousam", neither "w" nor "i" nor "h" is pronounced in it. I guess I adapted well to Londoner english, but I will as well get the flavor of south african english now - even i try to avoid it.

DenMoria · August 2016

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

AKSb16_ESO2 wrote: »

One point that was not mentioned yet. But I guess that's more an european problem: Languages.
European server has lot of different languages. ^^ Teamspeak with 4 different languages is not very effective. ^^
Not everyone can speak english very well. ^^
Text chat is working better, but it's still a thing for people not to do dungeons.

On the other hand, this is the perfect opportunity to learn the language from native speakers.

LOL, I have to strongly disagree with that...

In theory, you're right.
In practice however...
- You have no guarantee that someone speaks properly just because they're native speakers. Many of my french guildies speak (and write) HORRIBLE, and I mean HORRIBLE french.
- While I cannot always identify mistakes, I assume it's the same for english native speakers. Many of them probably speak a horrible english - and many horribly written posts here on this forum prove that many native english speakers write - and probably speak - horribly.
- In EU international guilds do set english as the communication language, but it's a mix of all kinds of people from various nationalities, languages and cultural backgrounds, it results in some sort of soup. So-called "international english" is a soup anyway.

It's enough to communicate for a dungeon or trial, but assuming it's an opportunity to learn is a big, big step.

I try not to be a "grammar ***", but when it comes to learning, I believe that not learning at all is better than learning wrong things. Opinions on this matter usually vary.

Also, I'm not saying that everyone speaks bad. Just that enough people speak bad so that it's quite hazardous to "learn" this way, since we cannot really filter the good from the bad.

Who defines what "proper" speaking is?

There are innumerable different dialects of almost any language (the US has over 300 alone!). We even have specific speech patterns based on race.

I have friends throughout the world and my friends in Paris do not speak as my friends in Marseille or even Normandy do.

Shortcuts and the smattering of profanity in speech is the way of the world nowadays, unfortunately.

Sure it would be nice if everybody spoke their native language in the grammatical and didactic patterns that we were taught in class, but that's not the reality.

Lysette · August 2016

DenMoria wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

AKSb16_ESO2 wrote: »

One point that was not mentioned yet. But I guess that's more an european problem: Languages.
European server has lot of different languages. ^^ Teamspeak with 4 different languages is not very effective. ^^
Not everyone can speak english very well. ^^
Text chat is working better, but it's still a thing for people not to do dungeons.

On the other hand, this is the perfect opportunity to learn the language from native speakers.

LOL, I have to strongly disagree with that...

In theory, you're right.
In practice however...
- You have no guarantee that someone speaks properly just because they're native speakers. Many of my french guildies speak (and write) HORRIBLE, and I mean HORRIBLE french.
- While I cannot always identify mistakes, I assume it's the same for english native speakers. Many of them probably speak a horrible english - and many horribly written posts here on this forum prove that many native english speakers write - and probably speak - horribly.
- In EU international guilds do set english as the communication language, but it's a mix of all kinds of people from various nationalities, languages and cultural backgrounds, it results in some sort of soup. So-called "international english" is a soup anyway.

It's enough to communicate for a dungeon or trial, but assuming it's an opportunity to learn is a big, big step.

I try not to be a "grammar ***", but when it comes to learning, I believe that not learning at all is better than learning wrong things. Opinions on this matter usually vary.

Also, I'm not saying that everyone speaks bad. Just that enough people speak bad so that it's quite hazardous to "learn" this way, since we cannot really filter the good from the bad.

Who defines what "proper" speaking is?

There are innumerable different dialects of almost any language (the US has over 300 alone!). We even have specific speech patterns based on race.

I have friends throughout the world and my friends in Paris do not speak as my friends in Marseille or even Normandy do.

Shortcuts and the smattering of profanity in speech is the way of the world nowadays, unfortunately.

Sure it would be nice if everybody spoke their native language in the grammatical and didactic patterns that we were taught in class, but that's not the reality.

in Germany the city of Hannover is said to have the most high german pronunciation of the german language - but pretty much no one else is speaking like this - it is grammatically and didactically "proper german", but nearly no one else speaks like this - so what is proper german than?- that what most people do NOT speak, or those many dialects, people actually speak.

failkiwib16_ESO · August 2016

@DenMoria proper speaking is when your point/meaning is understood lol

stcairo · August 2016

MopeyHat wrote: »

I keep seeing people say they've never done a dungeon, or only done one or two.
?

First group content I did was the world bosses in Wrothgar, they kill me each time. I'm dodging left and right, but I seem to be dying just from nothing and anything. Needless to say, this is a huge turn-off to doing group content where my fails will actually affect others.

Lysette · August 2016

I once made a test, which was made to tell, where about in the USA you were born and raised - I am neither born there nor raised, but I took the test - and a US friend did it as well. The result was interesting - the test could pinpoint the area pretty well, where my friend was born and raised - whereas my test result basically gave a list of states, where I've actually been, so I have picked up some phrases and idioms from each of those states - there was no state in that list, which I did not visit.

Lysette · August 2016

Patch is complete btw - I am downloading it now. Oh my, it is huge, it will take quite a while to download it.

DenMoria · August 2016

failkiwib16_ESO wrote: »

@DenMoria proper speaking is when your point/meaning is understood lol

Saywa?

Gargath · August 2016

MopeyHat wrote: »

I keep seeing people say they've never done a dungeon, or only done one or two.

What keeps you out of dungeons? Is it the dungeon finder being glitchy? Players turn you off? Does PvP or roleplaying keep you busy?

Usually I just do dungeons with players from the guilds I'm in, not trading guilds, but those without traders, more friendly. I still can't get used to dungeon finder with pugs and this because:
- most random players from dungeon finder are anonymous and want to do it fast, some do not even stop to pick a chest and start a fight alone - very annoying.
- many just do not want to learn on their mistakes and thus I get bored of their ignorance. After first queue and painful play with ignorant people I'm not interested in next queue this day.
- if some random player, who is 100% sure he knows what to do and confirms that every time I ask, then he just keep using light attacks as dps with no aoe and keep dying because he always is first to start first to die, ask me straight to go with him for next dungeon (usually City of Ash, no idea why), I always say no (politely), and usually add him to ignore (once he has left the group). There is no point in doing things with big-headed people who don't want to learn because they know everything and die "because it's your fault".

What was keeping me out of trials? For a long time, I was unable to find a group of both experienced and lenient people willing to help me even without verbal communication tool. Most guild require from players to have TemSpeak or Discord and ability to speak English, or just listen. Personally I understand it's easier, but I don't like to hang on microphone and use spoken English in game, it pulls me off the game and make a mess in playing, I cannot focus. I have friends similarly restrained from doing trials due to TS3/Discord requirement.
But, I may say I already found a guild where I can play trails and dungeons among friends without a.m. issues. It's all that matters.

ZOS_Finn · August 2016

Being that this is a topic near and dear to my heart I appreciate this discussion. There is a lot of good information here. Regarding the difficulty - the normal versions of Dungeons we are pretty happy with difficulty wise, but if the general perception is that they are too difficult we will definitely take a look. For Veteran Difficulty, it may be an issue where a couple of Dungeons skew perception about them as a whole. This is something we are very much looking at for future content and as we adjust older content. Part of the concern players have also stems from the pledge system and how players are rewarded. We hope to have that issue addressed in the future as well

Great discussion folks, keep it coming!

ixie · August 2016

@ZOS_Finn any plans for solo versions of the dungeons in the future?

petraeus1 · August 2016

Finnigan! I still chuckle thinking back to E3. '... dungeon...' 'YEAH!!!'

For me personally it's got to do with what you said about the new dungeons, i.e. experienced crews taking ca. 40 minutes to complete them. I often only have 1-2 hours of game time at a time in the average week, so running a dungeon is always a tight fit, especially considering you gotta find a group and in case of a PUG things might not go smoothly. Actually learning a dungeon or trial is also painful, I actually had to leave a guild group once on a learning run of MOL after 3 hours which just sucks balls. Some are a bit long, is what I'm saying.

code65536 · August 2016

ZOS_Finn wrote: »

Being that this is a topic near and dear to my heart I appreciate this discussion. There is a lot of good information here. Regarding the difficulty - the normal versions of Dungeons we are pretty happy with difficulty wise, but if the general perception is that they are too difficult we will definitely take a look. For Veteran Difficulty, it may be an issue where a couple of Dungeons skew perception about them as a whole. This is something we are very much looking at for future content and as we adjust older content. Part of the concern players have also stems from the pledge system and how players are rewarded. We hope to have that issue addressed in the future as well

Great discussion folks, keep it coming!

@ZOS_Finn There is something that I've touched on before in the forums, and that's the Undaunted introductory quest.

You stumble across the Undaunted in a tavern in the starter city, talk to one of them, and are sent off--with zero preparation--to visit a group dungeon. Once you enter the group dungeon, the quest objective is met and you can complete the intro quest without even killing a single thing.

Make the intro quest a little easier to find. Maybe scatter a few pamphlets around town that can serve as alternate start triggers for this quest?
Compare this to the intro quests for crafting and Cyrodiil. The crafting intro quests (crafting certification) teach you about harvesting, about where to find raw mats (guild stores) if you don't want to harvest, about deconstruction, etc. The Cyrodiil ones have lots of dialog and a couple of hands-on tutorials for siege and repair.
- The Undaunted intro quest should be more than just colorful Undaunted chest-thumping. For starters, add dialog that explain to the player things what the tank, healer, and DD roles even mean. The very first time I did group PvE in this game, I had to ask people what role I was because I knew nothing about the roles in group PvE.
- Let the player select dialog options that provide tips for each of the three roles.
- Explain that tanks need a taunt. A tank without a taunt is not a tank.
- This could be a good place to offer hints about the need for AoE.
- Offer suggestions like Group Finder, guilds, and encourage people to put their contacts list to good use.
I know that there are topics about this in the help section, but people rarely consult that, and in-game dialog is far more useful in getting people to pay attention.
The current intro quest is SO useless that there are players who mistakenly think that the quest completion is a bug, even though it's working as intended.

Honestly, I think the content is fine. There are a few questionable decisions (like making the minimum level for nICP/nWGT 10 even though they are much tougher than Spindle or Fungal), but in many cases, the problems that I see when I PUG are problems with people who don't understand the basics of group PvE.

LMar · August 2016

code65536 wrote: »

ZOS_Finn wrote: »

Being that this is a topic near and dear to my heart I appreciate this discussion. There is a lot of good information here. Regarding the difficulty - the normal versions of Dungeons we are pretty happy with difficulty wise, but if the general perception is that they are too difficult we will definitely take a look. For Veteran Difficulty, it may be an issue where a couple of Dungeons skew perception about them as a whole. This is something we are very much looking at for future content and as we adjust older content. Part of the concern players have also stems from the pledge system and how players are rewarded. We hope to have that issue addressed in the future as well

Great discussion folks, keep it coming!

@ZOS_Finn There is something that I've touched on before in this forums, and that's the Undaunted introductory quest.

You stumble across the Undaunted in a tavern in the starter city, talk to one of them, and are sent off--with zero preparation--to visit a group dungeon. Once you enter the group dungeon, the quest objective is met and you can complete the intro quest without even killing a single thing.
Make the intro quest a little easier to find. Maybe scatter a few pamphlets around town that can serve as alternate start triggers for this quest?

Compare this to the intro quests for crafting and Cyrodiil. The crafting intro quests (crafting certification) teach you about harvesting, about where to find raw mats (guild stores) if you don't want to harvest, about deconstruction, etc. The Cyrodiil ones have lots of dialog and a couple of hands-on tutorials for siege and repair.
The Undaunted intro quest should be more than just colorful Undaunted chest-thumping. For starters, add dialog that explain to the player things what the tank, healer, and DD roles even mean. The very first time I did group PvE in this game, I had to ask people what role I was because I had know idea what any of those terms even meant.

Let the player select dialog options that provide tips for each of the three roles.

Explain that tanks need a taunt. A tank without a taunt is not a tank.

This could be a good place to offer hints about the need for AoE.

Offer suggestions like Group Finder, guilds, and encourage people to put their contacts list to good use.

I know that there are topics about this in the help section, but people rarely consult that, and in-game dialog is far more useful in getting people to pay attention.

The current intro quest is SO useless that there are players who mistakenly think that the quest completion is a bug, even though it's working as intended.

This is spot on. It is not about the difficulty as that people can get over with after a few tries. But a way to introduce the dungeons and the roles will go a long way into making the dungeons easier and more intuitive to get into. Normal dungeons are pretty easy especially now that they can be scaled to level. But a group of 4 DDs (which most new players start as) can mess up the perceptions of people especially if they need a bit of tactical thinking and not just burning things down!

missjackieb14_ESO · August 2016

MopeyHat wrote: »

I keep seeing people say they've never done a dungeon, or only done one or two.

What keeps you out of dungeons? Is it the dungeon finder being glitchy? Players turn you off? Does PvP or roleplaying keep you busy?

Why? I'm too scared the community might be similar to WoW's community. If you're new to the dungeon, they might kick you for not knowing what to do and/or don't have the patience to allow you to learn.

menedhyn · August 2016

I may be in a minority when it comes to how I approach dungeons and how I like to take my time, but please, please don't make the difficulty of normal dungeons easier. I would much rather leave them and come back when I felt I was capable of 'holding my own' than wish for more simplification.

ZOS_Finn · August 2016

tribbsb16_ESO wrote: »

@ZOS_Finn any plans for solo versions of the dungeons in the future?

We have no plans for that right now.

Ghost-Shot · August 2016

missjackieb14_ESO wrote: »

MopeyHat wrote: »

I keep seeing people say they've never done a dungeon, or only done one or two.

What keeps you out of dungeons? Is it the dungeon finder being glitchy? Players turn you off? Does PvP or roleplaying keep you busy?

Why? I'm too scared the community might be similar to WoW's community. If you're new to the dungeon, they might kick you for not knowing what to do and/or don't have the patience to allow you to learn.

I started playing WoW a few months ago and after hitting 100 I started doing some of the Draenor heroics to get my self ready for LFR/normal raids. I had only done one of the normals before this and I have literally never been vote kicked for not knowing what I was doing.

SolarCat02 · August 2016

I think the normal dungeons are fine. Even if you are nervous about dungeons, they still scale down if you feel more comfortable (will that still be a thing with Tamriel One?) and the loot is just standard stuff usually so not missing much when de-leveling. (This is not a complaint).

I remember watching my husband's first dungeon. Entirely composed of new players standing outside Banished Cells looking for the skill point they read they could get from the quest at the end. No tank, no healer, and it was very messy (they wiped twice to the first boss). They all had a blast and added each other to their friends list. I didn't run with him (we only had one Xbox at the time), but I was so excited to be able to find a group to try.

It took a while for me to actually try. I found the group finder confusing (plus it was broken at the time, much like right now). I ended up running Elden Hollow (normal) twice the same day (scaled to v16 both times) as my first dungeon, with two different groups. In one we had a v16 who pretty much carried us but explained the mechanics well enough that I carried the second group through to the giant plant boss. Everyone kept dying except me so we ended up disbanding, but I got the confidence I needed from the experience.

Veteran dungeons... I didn't run any "real ones" until I was v8 because I heard they were so much harder and I was terrified of holding people back. I wanted to hold off until v16, but someone at the undaunted enclave convinced my group of three to run the Banished Cells gold key. (One person in our group just hit v1 and he wanted it scaled down). We succeeded! After wiping three times when the boss was almost dead... It took 2 hours for the final boss fight. I didn't try again until v16.

Now I am confident, and can carry bad groups even through many veteran dungeons. (Not good enough to PUG a few with bad groups, namely Fungal Grotto, City of Ash, and the final boss of Darkshade Caverns, although I can do well if I bring a friend. I won't run White Gold Tower with strangers, and I am still "carried" through Imperial City Prison because I still get confused by some of the boss mechanics, but I just haven't run that one enough for it to be second nature yet, and the group I have run it with rushes through. I will get there! It just hasn't been a priority for my usual dungeon friends, especially since the helm isn't on anyone's wishlist).

We are tackling Trials right now. With the players we are practicing with, they are more mechanics runs than competitive leaderboard practice, but everyone starts somewhere. Tonight is Sanctum Ophidia (normal, most aren't ready for veteran yet, but that's okay! We will get there, and have fun doing it). It's tricky getting a full group of 12 together. It's fun, though! I just wish we had a way to scale up some of our lower levels. We have two players under CP160 who are very sharp at veteran dungeons, and I would love to invite them to our scaled-up Trials too. (The third has run a few Trials with us in spite of his level, but also just hit CP160 this weekend). I don't think a group finder would be good for Trials, but a battle scaling option for the normal Trials would be awesome.

I try to find people who are interested in dungeons but nervous, and show them how doable they can be. Just picked up a tank earlier this week. He made some big mistakes, sure, but it was his first time in veteran Fungal Grotto, and he never made the same mistake twice, ever. We did the gold key conditions just for fun, and he picked up quickly. I was floored when he confessed to me that he was only nine! He is going to be a beast of a tank.

Asmael · August 2016

tribbsb16_ESO wrote: »

@ZOS_Finn any plans for solo versions of the dungeons in the future?

They are already solo'able, except for some mechanics that require having multiple people to pull levers / stand on something at the same time.

ZOS_Finn wrote: »

Being that this is a topic near and dear to my heart I appreciate this discussion. There is a lot of good information here. Regarding the difficulty - the normal versions of Dungeons we are pretty happy with difficulty wise, but if the general perception is that they are too difficult we will definitely take a look. For Veteran Difficulty, it may be an issue where a couple of Dungeons skew perception about them as a whole. This is something we are very much looking at for future content and as we adjust older content. Part of the concern players have also stems from the pledge system and how players are rewarded. We hope to have that issue addressed in the future as well

Great discussion folks, keep it coming!

Finn, that you even consider nerfing vet dungeons yet again is a joke at this point. If you actually want people to do dungeons, prepare them for those, actually tell them what they should be doing, instead of turning pledges into a chore for key farming where you can do it on a naked character. Doing dungeons solo once is fun, but that just shows how ridiculously pointless they have become in regard to preparing players for harder content (read vWGT, vICP as middle ground content, then trials).

I had some really amazing times in some dungeons, and there are some boss mechanics that I'd actually like to see in action. An example? Do any new player knows about the Mad Architect glass move? I'm pretty sure they don't, because this fight, like many others, has turned into a "stack & burn" strategy.

Said Mad Architect move in the spoiler for those who don't know.

If you want to rework old content, I have no issue with this, even better, I'll encourage it, but toning the difficulty down will do nothing more than increase the insane gap between a very easy "run, press 1 AoE ability twice, move on to next room" and a "you need perfect BiS gear, very good positioning, need to block every single AoE, or you'll die instantly".

People would still enter vICP thinking that, because they've been doing good in other dungeons, they'll do fine there, and they would be wrong.

I'd support increasing the health of the vast majority of bosses, as well as introducing tutorials or equivalent as @code65536 mentioned. People would actually have to learn and follow the mechanics. Said mechanics don't have to be extremely punishing in normal dungeons, but somethign definitely needs to be done about it.

On a side note, tell the people who made Maw of Lorkhaj that they did a great job

Best trial by far!

missjackieb14_ESO · August 2016

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

missjackieb14_ESO wrote: »

MopeyHat wrote: »

I keep seeing people say they've never done a dungeon, or only done one or two.

What keeps you out of dungeons? Is it the dungeon finder being glitchy? Players turn you off? Does PvP or roleplaying keep you busy?

Why? I'm too scared the community might be similar to WoW's community. If you're new to the dungeon, they might kick you for not knowing what to do and/or don't have the patience to allow you to learn.

I started playing WoW a few months ago and after hitting 100 I started doing some of the Draenor heroics to get my self ready for LFR/normal raids. I had only done one of the normals before this and I have literally never been vote kicked for not knowing what I was doing.

I haven't either (this was before I hit 100 on my pally). However, I have heard horror stories from people on the forums. But, they could be just anecdotal evidence of the community. I mostly solo on my 100 pally though, since I don't want to be responsible for tanking for people, heh.

AshTal · August 2016

I don't want to stand around shouting - Sorc looking for a group over and over again. If group finder actually found me a group I would like to do a dungeon.