Pausekey wrote: »

You are correct, many are inactive. But 95% never hit vet ranks. They quit because of poor class balance, lag, character resets, gold spam, bot saturation in dungeons, lost items, character rollbacks, getting locked out of characters, skill lag/delay, login issues, erroneous sweeping bans that ZOS admitted were mistakes. And I probably missed a few.

Two guild members quit after achieving V12. One because of lag in Cyrodil, and the other because his main was a Templar healer, and he felt useless in Trials because Sorcerers can heal it.

They have quit for various reasons. But it's unreasonable speculation to assume that none of them or even a small % of them quit due to difficulty. For one thing, all you see on the roster is the last character that person was logged in to. So for many casual gamers, they hit VR, decide they don't care for it, roll an alt, play that alt for a while, then quit.

There are many reasons people are leaving and difficulty is way up there. People just don't want to admit it because they don't want to get ridiculed.

Dayv wrote: »

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

Dayv wrote: »

This is an issue that keeps coming up on these forums again and again. If it isn't the biggest make or break issue this game has, it's certainly up there. There are people deserting because of it. I also acknowledge that there are some players seem to like this difficulty (I can't fathom why) but it's really about time ZoS addressed it. Either saying they intend to keep things this level of difficulty or they're going to make it more accessible for average players and tone it down. They know that this is an issue but keep sitting on the fence by alluding to upcoming changes to VR but mention nothing about the difficulty level. I just can't see this working on consoles the way it is now. It's about time ZOS gave us some feedback.

So you don't want any challenge just faceroll everything?

@martinhpb16_ESO, if by faceroll you mean do I find having to spec dress and stick and approaching every single trash fight as something that needs utmost concentration tedious, then yes just like loads of other people I want to faceroll everything. Let's be honest, I might as well just tell you that I want to faceroll it, because unless I tell you "Oh no! I was wrong to think there's anything wrong with the level of VR difficulty. You're completely correct", you aren't going to accept that I want to do anything other than faceroll everything. That opinion of yours is so implicit in your ever so eloquently-worded question.

Well I'm doing the content in vet zones and as a medium armour NB I'm certainly not wearing a dress and stick. When the going gets tough I team up wit random people and have a different experience of the game.

World bosses and dolmens I call out in zone and people arrive within five minutes.

It's been a nice way to meet people and share the experience.

I've learnt new skills and actually enjoyed the fights.

Would I prefer to just rock-up and blast everything and move on - no. It's a bit like the quest dialogues, would I prefer one liner quests or what we have now? I prefer what we have, its deeper and richer.

I'm finding it all very do-able without too much effort and I'm teaming when I need too. Finding people to do the content with has been no problem. Yes I die and thank goodness. Having come from LOTRO where all the content has been made so easy, its just plain boring. So judging from your comments I would say, yes you do just want to faceroll everything because as the game stands it is easily achieved with available resources.

However that isn't to say that I don't find vet levelling to be overly long and tedious having to do all those quests in the other zones.

Arundo wrote: »

Dayv wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

This is tried and true:

Dungeons - Challenging.
Heroic Dungeons - Very Challenging
Raids - Very Challenging
Group objectives in general - Challenging/Very Challenging
Trash mobs and solo quest mobs - low to moderate challenge

And if you want people to "L2P", this is a much better environment for it.

No it isnt people will just stop playing. What remains is a select group of hardcore gamers. The tip of the pyramid, which will not be enough to valid two megaservers and regular content. Then the hardcore gamers leave due to lack of new stuff as hardcore gamers burn through content much quicker. There wont be any new content due to lack of funds.

Game dead.

Vet areas are not hardcore gaming by any means.

Arundo wrote: »

mad.ferretb16_ESO wrote: »

I actually agree with the person who said that 1-50 should be scaled to VR content. That would probably be more my level of difficulty. Isn't it supposed to be difficult is t that what end-game is?

Why do a few keep saying the VR level 1-12 are end game ? Name me one MMO where leveling to max level was end game. I bet you cant find any.

End game is raiding, trials and veteran dungeons tuned to the highest level like in WOW. Not leveling your toon to max level.

Agreed. And that's problem. You get to max level and you want to do those things, but instead you get handed another, even longer, harder and more boring level grind.

Sakiri wrote: »

Best part about these "let the casuals leave" types...

It will bite them.

Enough badmouthing and a game wont recover. Even the "hardcore" raiders wont be able to get replacements.

Older games have this issue. Need new players but cant get them. Sloggy games too.

I guess its okay if all you do is log in, raid, log out and thats it.

Most of us dont do that. Sorry.

There is nothing but casual content. Sure it gets hard but it's just numbers not mechanics.

LonePirate wrote: »

I have said it before and I will say it again.

VR mobs of all varieties need to be nerfed 20-50%.

VR quest and delve bosses need to be buffed 10-20%.

I have grown tired of epic battles throughout a VR quest only to have a much easier time against the final boss than the unnamed lackeys that dot the landscape. I fear the mobs more than the bosses and that experience is exactly the opposite of what should happen.

100% agree. I seriously don't understand how the designers can think it makes any sense at all for the trash mobs you have to cut through to get to the boss the to be this difficult only to get to a boss that is often trivially unchallenging.

Nobody is asking for Dungeons or Raids or any group content to be toned down. What needs to be toned down are VR Trash mobs. Even ditching the 3 mob encounters for just 2 would be a huge difference maker. Or at least tweaking them so there isn't so much CC. A mob of 3 that consists of 2 melee swinging 2H swords that both knock you down for 750 damage and a mage in the background casting spells that hit for 1000 damage is ridiculous.

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

GreySix wrote: »

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

Arundo wrote: »

Dayv wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

This is tried and true:

Dungeons - Challenging.
Heroic Dungeons - Very Challenging
Raids - Very Challenging
Group objectives in general - Challenging/Very Challenging
Trash mobs and solo quest mobs - low to moderate challenge

And if you want people to "L2P", this is a much better environment for it.

No it isnt people will just stop playing. What remains is a select group of hardcore gamers. The tip of the pyramid, which will not be enough to valid two megaservers and regular content. Then the hardcore gamers leave due to lack of new stuff as hardcore gamers burn through content much quicker. There wont be any new content due to lack of funds.

Game dead.

Vet areas are not hardcore gaming by any means to me.

Fixed for accuracy.

Smart move but no way that is hardcore gaming lol.

Two or three people can blast through it with no need for tactics, teamspeak, respecs, theorycrafting, walkthroughs, wipes, high-end gear, or anything.

If its so hardcore where are the online guides, Utube videos, or halls of fame of those that did it in less than 20 mins?

Its just the same quest content we had earlier, notched up to encourage grouping and for those that don't want to do real hardcore gaming have a flavour of something a little more serious.

Its healthy for an mmo to have some quests areas that actually offer up a challenge.

Just find a random pal and you can do it no problem.

Jees be thankful that Zeni is even giving you a challenge.

Try a vet dungeon on level then you see hardcore.

Have you been to higher vet zones? Tell me, honestly, how many "random pals" have you seen in the open world? If you don't want to admit there is indeed a problem, you...well, let's say you're not seeing the whole picture for whatever reason. Yes, several people(ideally 3(+), 2 actually often isn't enough as I found out) can easily do all the content. Except that it'd take hours to gather random people, and most of my friend list is inactive by now. Also excluding the part that many people want to play solo.There're Trials and group dungeons and publics and Craglorn and PvP and overall plenty of stuff you can and should do with others. This is good and fun. But after lvl 1-50 was supereasy and almost all solo, and we got used to playing solo, and a lot of us just LIKE playing mostly solo, why the heck are we suddenly forced to group to do TRASH mobs? Bosses, anchors, I understand. But trash? It's easier to solo some world bosses than trash, you really think that's the way it SHOULD be? I don't want to wait for the few of my still active friends to get online before I can have a chance against mob of 3.

Also, I have tried vet dungeons. I've run Spindle(without skipping the Gargoyle, mind you) and Banished as vet 4-5 with other members being vet 2. Guess what? I died LESS in BC than I die on average long quest with lots of trash. Boss twin harvesters in BC did NOT oneshoot me, they barely took half of my health with their special attack. Trash harvesters oneshoot me.
Spindle was more difficult but this is 90% due to ads of boss 3 who reset every time we died, that took us...a while.
But overall, aside from said ads(that was hell. Seriously), vet dungeons feel more rewarding and much less frustrating than current vet trash mobs.

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

Vet areas are not hardcore gaming by any means.

You don't get to tell other people if they find it boring and/or hard.

@Hilgara, most of us don't want to be able to to faceroll on the keyboard in order to win, but you don't think the contrast between normal and vet is too much? It doesn't make sense, and if this is the way they intended it, it's just stupid. I hate to say it, but if they want this game exclusively for hardcore players who like EVERY trash encounter to be a challenge(I'm not saying this is bad. But I think such players are a minority), then buff EVERYTHING from lvl 1 included and advertise the game as "the challenge you've been waiting for", not "play the way you want"(after which I and thousands of others will just unsub, but at least it'd be honest). So ppl know as soon a they log in for the very first time what it is they're up against. This way? You steamroll thru 1-50 and then you can suddenly be killed by 3 rats in vet. Amazing numbers of ppl seem to quit soon as they reach vet, because it's like you're suddenly playing a whole different game, difficulty-wise.

If this is not the way it is intended(it doesn't seem to be to me, too many things don't make sense - bosses being easier than trash, for one), then nerf them already. Or better yet, find a way to adjust/choose difficulty so that everyone can be happy, tho I'm not entirely sure how that'd work in a MMO.

Hilgara wrote: »

I pray ZoS doesn't make game difficulty to suit those that refuse to adapt.

Then I pray you enjoy F2P because that's what it'll be if it doesn't adapt I fear. I'm sorry - I play to have fun. This is not The Army, this is not a job, it's a game. It does not offer a reasonable challenge at VR, it offers a ridiculous level at every step that sucks the fun right out of the game.

If it can thrive on people who enjoy that then fine but you cannot cajole or stealth-insult people into enjoying what does not come within a country-mile of being enjoyable for them.

People know when they are having fun or not.

Who knows what the future will be but I wouldn't take a bet on this being a thriving game in 12 months they way it is going.

Iceman_mat wrote: »

People complained game was to easy, they made it harder, now you complain it's to hard. #irony #internet

-cheers

Wow. Very useful comment. When come back bring proof that the same people were involved in the same number.

#makingcrapup

In the end people can assert all they want. This just does not look or feel like a thriving game, especially as each patch makes it worse in many respects. I was a big fan of ESO but now I just despair.

@Hilgara, you seem to be missing most of the point(no offence). If you play that well as a NB, that's really great. And I'm glad you enjoy the challenge, really. At least someone is happy:) But this is not single player, this is MMO, there are - or SHOULD be - other people aside from you, too. Surely you've noticed how deserted vet zones are? People are leaving. Because they're lazy and don't want to adapt, because they have better things to research than their skill lines and their effect on trash mobs, whatever. Clearly, the majority is not enjoying this level of challenge from trash mobs. And they're leaving. They're unsubbing. Do you think this is good or bad for the game if it stays with a few hundred dedicated great players such as yourself and NO ONE else? Do you think they'll keep supporting the game(granted, their support already sucks now, but just imagine how much worse it can become when they stop getting money for it)?

Alphashado wrote: »

Yes all of that would apply wonderfully if we were talking about Dungeons or Raids or group content. We are talking about trash mobs.

I have said this before in this thread and I will say it again. It isn't that people can't do it, it's that we are tired of being forced to do it all the time.

Me and countless other people just want to be able to quest in peace sometimes and not be required to exert 100% effort and concentration just to navigate the roads.

You didn't read what I said. The trash mobs are no more difficult in vet content than they are 1 to 50 with the right build and skills. They may require a different approach than just dashing in and AOE'ing everything but that's to be expected. CC the caster, slow the melee hit the archer. it soon becomes instinctive but you cannot just ignore a group. it may need a different approach for each group depending on the make up of the group. Some group make up's will cause you much more trouble that others but that all adds interest to the game. I don't want to be able to slot 5 skills and march into any group of mobs spamming a couple of buttons because then the mobs just become scenery.