Overall Gameplay too difficult?

Mortosk

Pausekey wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

Casual players are quietly leaving, and there are a lot of them. I have seen it myself, talked to them myself, and personally had two very good friends already leave. You won't see very many of them admit that they are leaving because it's too hard for them to enjoy it because they are embarrassed and do not want to get ridiculed.

Failing to miss one block against a trash mob and dying is hardcore gaming man. leave it in the dungeons.

And please quit commenting on how easy this game is then admitting that you haven't played VR content yet.

Casual players aren't dumb or stupid. They aren't asking for tips or tricks or advice. They understand perfectly well what is required to play VR ESO and they don't enjoy it.

Marry just wants to quest her way to lvl cap and enjoy the game. She isn't interested in dungeons or raids or PvP. She has always respected the type of player that enjoyed challenging stuff like dungeons and raids and PvP, but it just wasn't her thing because she knew that it would take a lvl of gaming that she just doesn't enjoy. She doesn't want to die every time she misses a block. She doesn't want to die every time she doesn't dodge roll out of a spell. She wants to have fun and enjoy the game while being imperfect.


Does Marry have a place in ESO? No

And Marry has a lot of friends.

They all pay for subscriptions.

For Marry's sake, toss the casuals a bone. Give them something to do. Or she and her friends will just continue to leave and take their game supporting
money with them.

I think Marry failed to realize what VR content is all about. First, we should call it what it actually is. Veteran Ranks. As in you have completed the mandatory content and are now pursuing something extra, something above and beyond. You don't get skill points from gaining these levels, and most of the advancement comes from steadily gaining better gear. So really, the VR zones are basically a way of giving level capped players (level 50) something to do, with the VR ranks being the slight reward. The mobs are tougher, they hit harder, and in general completing these areas shows a certain persistence and commitment to your character.

Nowhere have i seen it written that players have a right to solo every mob. I skip pulls of three mobs all the time. The reward for killing them isn't great, and it slows me down. And could it be possible that the developers didn't want player characters to be all be Aragorn, mowing down hordes of orcs with ease? So i sneak by these groups(sneak is available to every character btw) and look for easier paths to my goal. Also, some builds really suck. You don't have to use a theory crafted cookie cutter to succeed, just make sure you actually read skill descriptions. Someone earlier mentioned difficulty with skeletons, did you try silver shards? It prones undead and does serious damage, all while using stamina, which most players have in excess.

I don't think Marry has friends, because if she did they would help her out with content she finds difficult. Is Marry an ostrich with her head in the sand? Does she realize she is playing an MMO? Don't get me wrong, I love and prefer to solo when I level. But I don't rage and cry about unfairness is something proves tough. I call for backup.

Now here is the kicker. A lot of us don't care if Marry leaves, because she is the type of player we don't want to deal with. Marry complains until they nerf solo content. Then she complains that she can't do public dungeons, so they nerf those. Then she complains that she can't find another ostrich to run a 4 man dungeon with, so they nerf those. Then she complains that she can't get really good gear because nobody wants to carry her barely thought out character through the trials. So finally, after all the elitist jerks she hates so much are gone, the developers stop making content and instead push out a cash shop that lets everyone have their moment of glory, for the small price of $29.99

Poor Mary. Everyone misspells her name and now you are insulting her and saying she doesn't have any friends. What did Mary ever do to you?

Ysne58

I recently reached Vet level. I finally got past that level 30 main quest harvester. The only boss I cannot beat on a solo basis is a harvester. I have not tried the level 43 forced solo FG harvester since level 45.

You have to complete the main quest to get to 2/3 of the pve content. It is forced solo. There are many people who cannot get past this block without help. This should at the very least allow for grouping of 2 people. This would also meet the needs of those couples that only play mmos so they can enjoy a game together.

I'm just starting Bleakrock at vet level 1 -- I can't say yet whether it will be too difficult for me. It is a challenge.

Merlin13KAGL

@Arundo, sorry, I missed the V7 part of the original post. Thanks for pointing that out to me. (and courteously.)

My recommendations were for the <50 group and those saying they'd had friends <50 having issues.

I think there are either hidden mechanics that aren't obvious or the random factor comes in to play a bit too randomly.

Arundo wrote: »

Maybe I'm a noob but I have been playing MMO's ever since WOW came out, I raided a very long time in WOW.

I doubt you made it to VR7 and maintained NooB status.

Definitely agreed that some things still need balanced and adjusted ~ apparently even more so in the Vet Ranks.

The game should be enjoyable to all levels to get the best of the player base out there. I hate when something with such potential gets people to the point where they even consider about not returning, let alone following through with it.

Good luck.

I've edited my post to reflect the <50 recommendations, as the thread title will draw those below Vet ranks as well. It's also for individuals such as @claytonjhouserb14_ESO ' s friend @ L26 (fifth response in the thread and the original thread poster, I believe?).

Certainly not trying to offend any VR's and not intending to speak about that which I don't know yet.

Hope that clears the water, @Sakiri‌ ...

I'll run along now...

Magdalina

zaria wrote: »

no issue with difficulty on questing in VR, perhaps with the exception of some quest bosses you have to solo.
Delves can be hard, as you can always find a group for them.

However I find the veteran dungeons too hard.
Has many been able to do them at level? I did Banished cells with two VR10 in group, tried again with VR3,4,4 and 5 and was not able to get past the second last boss.
I thought is should be doable with four VR2.

Tried veteran fungal grotto, was unable to get past second boss with the two VR10.

I ran Spindle as vet 4 with 3 vet 2 guys. It took us 2.5 hours, a few dozens death each and a LOT of cursing:) But most of each was due to boss #3 ads, everything else was...doable. I think they might've fixed Spindle's ads full reset on death tho, unsure. People used to farm it.

I also ran BC as vet 5 with same vet 2 people, don't see a big problem there. Could you remind me of "second last boss"? I remember last fight being...interesting and the godzilla daedroth being nightmare dps race, but that's about it.

Have only tried Fungal at vet 1-2 and failed very miserably(we got the first spider boss tho=D), planning to take revenge soon:P

But yes, I have a HUGE issue with trash mobs that I don't have with dungeons. Aside from ads in Spindle. Those must die, or at lest stop resetting every time you die, if they haven't yet.

troymacd

Ill say this as a[person that bought the Imperial Edition 5 days ago and just started playing.......my first character a ranged DK hybrid got waxed all the time. My second character a DPS Sorc not so much he can hang my third a Heavy Armor Templar rolls through everything at the lower levels .I'm not real familiar with the Elder Scrolls games as I mostly only play MMO's..SWTOR RIft WoW way back in the day and Ultima Online way way back in the day. I like the game because its new to me but other than the great graphics so far it seems like the game was made for console players its clunky wayyy to may addons the game should have all those options built in...mini map health bars they are basic stuff....I just found out that having 3 different faction characters limits my PvP but that's not a real problem because when I enter a PvP location I never seen anyone EVER, which is good because Im only level 12 and Im told Im in there with level 49's.....greattttt.......that makes perfect sense. So as I write this Im thinking the $90 bucks I dropped on this game may not have been worth it. Seeing RIFT is FreetoPlay...also the crashes were horrible..after upgrading to WIN 8.1 they have stopped which is nice.

A solid beginners guide would have been nice my guess is they don't want to let the cat out of the bag on a lot of the issues in game play.

Ehh its only money...after the Giant let down of SWTOR this isn't that bad I had no real expectation of the game.

elowan

First off, if you're not at least 2-3 Vet ranks into the content, you truly don't have a sense of what it's like.

Second, whether or not you believe Veteran content is perfectly balanced to give you an enjoyable challenge, insanely difficult to the point of frustration, or a doable-but somewhat boring grind is dependent on a whole variety of factors, from personal skill / ability to class choice, skill choice, and perception of challenge/rewards. For the record, my main is Vet6, and I'm halfway through the first zone of Cadwell's Gold. I'm enjoying seeing the other questline / exploring / collecting achievements, etc. The fights are challenging, but at least thus far, nothing has made me run away screaming (to be fair, my choice [personal choice, not because I theorycrafted it] of class is Sorc, so I'm playing the "easy" sorc/destro/light combo).

But even though I'm personally ok with the difficulty (so far!), that is not, and should not be the point. All you folks saying that you're fine with the "casuals" who "ruin the game" leaving are living in a dream world. You should care about casuals, you need to care about casual players. Aside from the obnoxiousness of saying "screw you and your playing style, go away," the game NEEDS to cater to a wide range of people in order to stay financially viable.

Had ESO been released as an indie-kickstarter hardcore-only game, maybe the financial structure would have been designed to be sustainable with only dedicated, hardcore members. However, it was instead released as a AAA game, with development costs > $200M. Zenimax is not going to be (not should they, given the development costs) satisfied with maintaining only hardcore gamer subs. Cutting off anybody who isn't interested in this kind of difficulty is not just obnoxious - it's not in our own interest as players of this game.

Which brings me to this:

Alphashado wrote: »

It's touted and presented as some kind of end-game content. But it doesn't feel like end-game content. It feels like mandatory progression because the true endgame content is Craglorn.

I came here in part to emphasize exactly this. The two cadwell main quests play like optional "hardcore-if-you-dig-that" quests, but are for all intents and purposes mandatory. Content is being released for post-Cadwell levels already, and there's no indication that L50 content will be released anytime soon (or ever).

You can't simply tell people not to level up their Veteran levels when content is being released for the upper Veteran levels. Telling people to just leave if they don't like it is self destructive and pointless.

Arundo

@Merlin13KAGL

No problem and thanks for clearing your post. Sorry if I might have been a bit too forward and putting my teeth in your post. But the topic has been a constant fight between the two sides on this matter.

Anyway good luck out there while adventuring through Tamriel

Clutch

I like the difficulty curve. It's the only aspect I like WildStar for which, if you mess up - you're practically dead. It's the way it should be, a higher emphasis on player skill and this game is more gravitating towards skilled combat as opposed to hotbars out the wazoo.

Now granted, some AE builds will just perform better than just about any original build you come up with. That's why I like being able to switch on the fly rather than face a cool down like GW2 does to you. I can switch to my tanky greatsword build that has no sustain skill on my bar (except Blur which honestly that 15% chance to evade is kind of lowsy) and immediately switch to Bow for more CC and Boss Kill potential.

This is the one aspect in which I can side with elitists when the common "hand holding" gets thrown around. People have been spoiled by having their hand held in previous MMOs and while ESO still does hold your hand in many situations, it's very easy, if you mess up, for a mob two levels bellow you to suddenly chew you up.

ESO isn't 100% of what I want but it's the combat I love and it's the combat I felt GW2 should have had, right down to the customization and immersion.

Dayv

Clutch wrote: »

I like the difficulty curve. It's the only aspect I like WildStar for which, if you mess up - you're practically dead. It's the way it should be, a higher emphasis on player skill and this game is more gravitating towards skilled combat as opposed to hotbars out the wazoo.

I'd say that it's not so much a curve as gentle slope up through the first 49 level and then a huge ramp up in VR. It's one thing to expect people to learn to play but give them a chance to learn and give them something to enjoy while they are learning.

hamon

SilverWF wrote: »

Overall gameplay is abasolutely NOT difficult to ANY class and spec.

oh well since you wrote this in bold it must be correct eh? move along everyone this guys just pointed out we,re all wrong

Magdalina

SilverWF wrote: »

Overall gameplay is abasolutely NOT difficult to ANY class and spec.

I'm not entirely sure what "abasolutely" means but clearly it's something like "hardly ever", judging by the context.

Shiroro

If VR content is so enjoyable then why are all of the leveling zones empty once you get past VR2? Oh, that's right, it's because it's horribly tedious and unfun.

At least you can look at your VR12 and know that only an extremely skilled player could get there. Oh wait....

EQBallzz

I like that the game is much more challenging than what we have become accustomed to in most MMOs. That being said I do think the vet level stuff (especially VR5+) needs to be toned down a bit. Not a lot. Just a bit. I don't mind that WBs or Dolmens are difficult but it shouldn't be such a mighty struggle to engage run of the mill groups of trash. It's demoralizing, not fun and doesn't even fit into the logic of the game. Oh I can defeat Molog Bal but 3 random casters in a bandit camp destroy me. Makes no sense. It's also probably bad for business if a noticeable number of people are leaving primarily from vet difficulty and I think there are.

Biezenw22eb17_ESO

First of all, i don't concider myself as a casual player just by the time i put into this game. Regarding the difficulty of the veteran zones i'm clearing now (veteran 3-4 and onwards) i do like the need of strict execution of a mix of skills in order to beat the variety of different mobs. My problem so far as a full light armor templar healer/dps (caster) in the veteran areas, are the main story quests of the zone where eventually some of the bosses are CC immune. And this screws my character completely since being a non-sorc caster CC spells were the only thing that kept me alive in the veteran areas to being with. Also there is a difference between hard encounters or impossible ones. I was forced to clear these fights with someone else in the exact quest phasing, fortunately it paid off back then.

Leaving me with the realisation that i was only able to clear this fight solo being a tank orientated templar, and i thought this game evolved around you playing anything you want and succeed. since i'm already both a healer and caster dps i'm now lacking points to also spec for a tank orientated templar. and i feel i'm also forced to specialise in this role for the next veteran zones.

Regarding the veteran dungeons, yeah there are some surprising difficulty differences between the 1-5 veteran dungeons, i don't know if it's intended or not.
But banished cells is either the right difficulty levels and the others harder, or banished cells is somewhat easier regarding the intended difficulty.

Csub

I'm Vr 7 and struggling against vr 2 mobs. No, I don't think I am noob, I had nonproblems till vr zones. I literally die at every third group, and I die more often than not if the group has a healer and/or mage. It is ridiculous.

Just today I had an elite in a quest, Omen of Blood which was supposed to be solo but couldn't get half of her HP down
down. I was about to open a thread here to ask if others struggled too but then luckily someone else appeared and we killed it. But won't always be thus lucky.

And I am a 2H templar in heavy armor, and guess what: I saw a sorcerer, 4 level lower than me, facerolling the groups of mobs I've been dying a lot at.

So yes, the game gets too difficult if you are not a staff and light armor user player.

Blud

Alphashado wrote: »

You are grossly underestimating the number of people who think the VR trash mob difficulty is redundant, tiresome, boring, or just flat out too extreme.

This is the main thing I would like to see fixed.

It's just flat out not fun to quest or travel in VR (especially VR7+) zones because of this.

Woolenthreads

LOL, I don't mind the occasional difficult situation, ie scattered Guard Mobs. It's when you take out the last of the Guard Mob and a frakkin' Mudcrab kills you because it got hit by AoE that annoys me

Varicite

I'm unsure how the gameplay could be "too difficult" when it's already been shown that every single class can solo endgame group content in Craglorn.

Varicite

Csub wrote: »

And I am a 2H templar in heavy armor, and guess what: I saw a sorcerer, 4 level lower than me, facerolling the groups of mobs I've been dying a lot at.

So yes, the game gets too difficult if you are not a staff and light armor user player.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1BhL6SDaOA

Maybe you should be doing something like what this 2h Templar is doing in medium armor?

He seems to be doing pretty well against these groups of VR11 mobs and boss.

Mortosk

Varicite wrote: »

Csub wrote: »

And I am a 2H templar in heavy armor, and guess what: I saw a sorcerer, 4 level lower than me, facerolling the groups of mobs I've been dying a lot at.

So yes, the game gets too difficult if you are not a staff and light armor user player.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1BhL6SDaOA

Maybe you should be doing something like what this 2h Templar is doing in medium armor?

He seems to be doing pretty well against these groups of VR11 mobs and boss.

Ya, a video of some random guy almost dying on every encounter and taking forever to meticulously kill stuff when sorcerers and DK's can pretty much face roll the content is evidence this other random guy is doing it wrong. You are right, sir, he should just L2P.

Csub

I'm at work at the moment, so can't watch the video but my medium armor is very low while heavy is already 50, as well as light (I heal in dungeons), 2h weapon and restoring light/aedric spear tree. I already changed my skill setup, not etirely but 3/5 skills are what I never used before and I find them fun but even with those I cannot manage. It depends on the group, really. My magic resist is already in soft cap, I have 1800-1900 hp and armor cap is not far.I just don't want to go to staff/light armor build because I never switch to an op build/class in mmos, I always have my own build and they work just fine.

For the record, I still don't necessarily think VR should be nerfed, probably a buff/ fix would help a lot.

And I do not wish to seem like I am whining, I like the game and I don't plan on quitting but this is frustrating.

Varicite

Mortosk wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

Csub wrote: »

And I am a 2H templar in heavy armor, and guess what: I saw a sorcerer, 4 level lower than me, facerolling the groups of mobs I've been dying a lot at.

So yes, the game gets too difficult if you are not a staff and light armor user player.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1BhL6SDaOA

Maybe you should be doing something like what this 2h Templar is doing in medium armor?

He seems to be doing pretty well against these groups of VR11 mobs and boss.

Ya, a video of some random guy almost dying on every encounter and taking forever to meticulously kill stuff when sorcerers and DK's can pretty much face roll the content is evidence this other random guy is doing it wrong. You are right, sir, he should just L2P.

It's group content that he's soloing, in medium armor w/ a 2 hander and a bow. Cut it any way that you want, but if the OP is having trouble killing lower VR mobs in solo content, then it could possibly be that he's simply not built in such a way to survive them.

Everybody who does even the most minimum amount of research already knows that the game is harder to play as a stamina-focused build, so I'm really not sure what you're trying to say here.

Yeah, light armor staff wielding DKs and Sorcs can do the content a bit more easily. In fact, pretty much every class would have an easier time soloing that same group content w/ light armor and staves.

But that's not what the OP was talking about, so not sure what you are even on about. If your intent was to tell the OP to just give up because light armor does it better, then... great? I don't think that's what he wants to hear, though.

I linked a video of a player using a similar build to what the OP would like to use, doing something that the OP is saying is too difficult for him. I figured if he watched it, he may pick up a few tips.

/shrug

As for the Heavy Armor, it should still be possible to do this in Heavy, though the stamina regen and crit from the Medium armor passives do make it a bit easier.

Kwas

Varicite wrote: »

Maybe you should be doing something like what this 2h Templar is doing in medium armor?

He seems to be doing pretty well against these groups of VR11 mobs and boss.

Crag mobs are generally on par / easier than v2/3+ mobs...

Fair few of us in this thread do manage vet content. We just don't enjoy it.

It's far too punishing considering latency and all the times when skills simply won't work.

Nevermind the fact that once the attack animation is off you will get hit unless you roll. Doesn't matter there's a wall between you and the attacker. Doesn't matter you're way out of range of that uppercut.

Considering all this, quick attacks from trash mobs hitting 400+ is a bit much I'd think ...

Alphashado

I'm just tired of the level of effort, energy, and attention to detail every single trash mob takes. Maybe if 2/3s of the content didn't require this than I would enjoy it more. It's just getting old fast having to play like I'm in a dungeon when all I'm doing is walking down the path.

I used to have fun killing trash mobs. Now I just dread it. It feels like a chore now. It isn't fun anymore. It's a drag. And why should I continue to pay for something that isn't fun anymore? Well that is the question of the day now isn't it?
Guess we could ask the casual gamers. Oh wait, they are gone. Guess we could ask the average gamer.. oh wait, they are leaving in droves as well. Guess we could ask the hardcore gamer..oh wait, they will just say good riddance and then whine when the game is totally dead.

I don't even enjoy exploring anymore because I am too busy focusing on where the mobs are. Is that one hostile? Is that a mob of two or three? Does that mob of three summon a pet to make it a mob of four? 1-50 fascinated me. I loved exploring new areas. I am VR6 now in a VR7 zone and I just keep finding myself taking shortcuts or doing whatever it takes to get through it fast.

Not because I can't do it, but because I am tired of it.

Sakiri

Clutch wrote: »

I like the difficulty curve. It's the only aspect I like WildStar for which, if you mess up - you're practically dead. It's the way it should be, a higher emphasis on player skill and this game is more gravitating towards skilled combat as opposed to hotbars out the wazoo.

Now granted, some AE builds will just perform better than just about any original build you come up with. That's why I like being able to switch on the fly rather than face a cool down like GW2 does to you. I can switch to my tanky greatsword build that has no sustain skill on my bar (except Blur which honestly that 15% chance to evade is kind of lowsy) and immediately switch to Bow for more CC and Boss Kill potential.

This is the one aspect in which I can side with elitists when the common "hand holding" gets thrown around. People have been spoiled by having their hand held in previous MMOs and while ESO still does hold your hand in many situations, it's very easy, if you mess up, for a mob two levels bellow you to suddenly chew you up.

ESO isn't 100% of what I want but it's the combat I love and it's the combat I felt GW2 should have had, right down to the customization and immersion.

It's not the combat difficulty.

It's the fact that their idea of "veteran" content is mobs that hit like trucks and have a gazillion HP while you hit like a wet noodle and are wearing toilet paper.

Suddenly and for no reason.

It draws out battles into a tiring slogfest of suck. By the time the first two mobs are dead you're out of resources and potions are on cd and you get your facr gangshrredded by the ones leftover.

It's stupid.

Sakiri

the need of strict execution of a mix of skills

Does not belong in a mainstream MMO.

Niche game, sure. Not one with as broad as a target audience as this game has.

Remember, they wanted the TES crowd too. Many of those guys aren't very skilled. Key attributes of TES games: Exploration and variety in build. You could be successful in combat as a strict trade character(personality, mercantile, etc) just by setting the slider down.....

Fiddlesticks

I'm new to this mmo, but so far I'm finding it frustratingly difficult to stay alive, compared to other games. It tires me out running all the way back to a an encounter only to die within seconds of getting there. That's when I log off.

I'm not used to fighting a lower level npc who drains life from me while my attacks seems to do nothing to his health bar. Sure, it might be my lack of skill or dexterity in my fingers, but people like me probably do need a bit more leeway.

I understand that veteran power players need a challenge. But the game needs a generous balance of both, challenge and survivability, while ensuring that everyone can proceed through the levels. Leveling up is important for me, so that I can explore the land to see the work the game artists have created.

Killing and dying are the lowest on my list of preferences. I accept that most games have a good dose of the former, and a fair bit of the latter, but for me a great game has a good dose of character survivability too.

Magdalina

Kwas wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

Maybe you should be doing something like what this 2h Templar is doing in medium armor?

He seems to be doing pretty well against these groups of VR11 mobs and boss.

Crag mobs are generally on par / easier than v2/3+ mobs...

Fair few of us in this thread do manage vet content. We just don't enjoy it.

It's far too punishing considering latency and all the times when skills simply won't work.

Nevermind the fact that once the attack animation is off you will get hit unless you roll. Doesn't matter there's a wall between you and the attacker. Doesn't matter you're way out of range of that uppercut.

Considering all this, quick attacks from trash mobs hitting 400+ is a bit much I'd think ...

This. I haven't played Craglorn much, but I went there to explore some, and guess what. Soloing 6+ trash Craglorn vet 11 mobs(it was in outside world) is MUCH easier than soloing 3 trash vet 3+ mobs. They have generally less health, hit for less and are generally much more forgiving.

Sure, Craglorn also has some nice group bosses in dungeons and in outer world - like I couldn't solo(not like I tried THAT hard, just couldn't solo on first 2 tries) that one big mother lizard, whatever its name was(one that spawns a quadrazillion minilizards), but it was minielite and it made sense that it was harder than trash. Now when vet 3+ trash is harder than minibosses/bosses/vet11 trash, I think it's safe to assume something is wrong there.

Hilgara

silent88b14_ESO wrote: »

So the difficulty looks good to you and, let's say 20% of the player base.

Erm...not according to the poll

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/99207/how-much-trouble-do-you-have-with-veteran-content#latest

I've said all along through this thread. Its the vocal minority having trouble. But you still want to ruin the game for the majority

Hilgara

charles.cavanaughub17_ESO wrote: »

The wave of players that started at launch have passed through already and are either in PvP, end game or have re-rolled as most of my in game friends have.

I don't think that this is exactly true. I've been playing since Beta, and I'm not even close to veteran level. I have about 5 characters, the highest of which is level 32. .

So you aren't exactly representative are you.