The new respec system absolutely must be restricted in scored content

Artisian0001 · January 12

Gabriel_H wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Artisian0001 wrote: »

The VAST majority of people that do vet trials do not get policed on whether they are gear swapping and completely min maxxing.

The VAST majority of people that do vet HM trifectas do get policed.

And? Vet HM Trifectas are the hardest content in the game; if you want to attempt them, you owe it to the other 11 people that are counting on you to do everything in your power to min-max your build.

Irrelevant to the point I was making, plus a flawed premise. You owe it to your group to be as efficient as you can be. Min/Maxing is done on a spreadsheet to find the maximum potential - it does not mean everyone can meet that potential.

Everyone is different and has different interests and abilties. If someone find a playstyle boring, for example, they won't be as engaged, will likely die more, and won't be outputting at the maximum. A different build that they find more enjoyable and more engaging may yield better efficiency, so while they are below the maximum spreadsheet potential, their real world output is greater than it would be trying to meet that maximum.

You can throw out whatever words you want, you were originally responding to my point, and your response to it was lacking in any logical reasoning. You said people police vet HM trifectas as a response to my saying normal runs don't get policed, even though in the exact same post I said the same thing. This is just fake outrage. Yes, HM trifecta runs get policed, that's how it should be. Your rational is that people don't want to swap their builds to maximize because they may find that playstyle boring. This is completely flawed and is just begging the question. By the same logic they could end up being in a build they like more and actually enjoy running more. Again, if it's for the best groups then you owe it to everyone else to do your best, making up some fake reason of "I might find this build boring" when they may already be in a build they find boring, is completely void of any logic.

Artisian0001 · January 12

Soarora wrote: »

Artisian0001 wrote: »

M0R_Gaming wrote: »

Artisian0001 wrote: »

HatchetHaro wrote: »

Artisian0001 wrote: »

You can already do this, this patch doesn't change anything. Just because you can doesn't mean people will find it to be a requirement. People go through vet trials doing less than 40k dps in 2026, so this is just untrue.

[snip]

[snip]

If you are talking about it from the perspective of the casual playerbase, then wouldn't loosing vitality (or only being able to use respecs at low vitality) or some other punishment be fine? The casual playerbase would still be able to use the QOL systems, while keeping this behaviour out of faster and more competitive content. Also, trials do not have armoury stations in them and never have.

Also, separate from this, but if this respec goes through, can we at least get the armoury assistant subject to the same restrictions as the respecs? Being able to respec but not being able to use an armoury which does the exact same thing in a more convenient way is stupid.

What in your opinion is the actual downside to doing this considering that less than 1% of groups will make you respec like this in a run, and those that do already do similar things and are looking for any way in which they can get a faster clear? The casual people will not be forced into this ever, and the hardcore ones will benefit from it, what is the actual issue? All this would to is make an additional thing to code.

People sure love throwing out the 1% number in arguments. Every time, I read it as minimizing people by saying “it doesn’t matter, because I think you and everyone you play with is insignificant”. 1% is not a statistical number, you’ve pulled it out of nowhere.

It’s not like it’s only scorepushers that require optimization. Casual groups don’t, midgame does (even harder than endgame does, I think), endgame does with some wiggle room for if you know what you’re doing. Besides, don’t people have the right to be concerned over the content they do? It’s not taking anything away to add restrictions to respecs, casual groups aren’t respeccing mid-combat— they’re porting out to do it.

The restrictiveness of trials is enough of a problem that there’s people— casuals and several (but not all) dungeon endgamers alike, who avoid trials entirely. I don’t know where you’re finding these runs that let you do whatever.

You do realize you are doing the exact same thing you are claiming I'm doing right? You are using your own random metrics. I think you don't understand the amount of people that run trials vs. the amount that would make you swap your gear per boss or add pull, it's an extremely low amount. Again, if you are talking about just HM trifecta runs that's a different metric and you should try re reading what I wrote. The percentage of people who make you gear swap is low and this would be just as low if not lower.
[edited to remove quote]

Avran_Sylt · January 12

code65536 wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

ninibini wrote: »

This:

code65536 wrote: »

And the problem with "I don't care what the sweaty people do" is that "what the sweaty people do" absolutely has an impact on you, because trials content has always been balanced around the power levels at the top, and the ever-increasing gap between what people who are optimizing every last detail and most players is what is leading to the newer hard modes becoming increasingly inaccessible to most players.
I.e., this causes balance issues that will affect everyone.

But you can already do this with the In-game Armory Assistant and enough purchased Armory slots.

This makes it not cost IRL money, in addition to no in-game gold.

The armory assistant is disabled once the timer for scored content has started.

Oh, interesting, then there is already a precedent. (And more reason to despise addons that circumvent such)

salander7 · January 12

Artisian0001 wrote: »

What in your opinion is the actual downside to doing this considering that less than 1% of groups will make you respec like this in a run, and those that do already do similar things and are looking for any way in which they can get a faster clear?

The casual people will not be forced into this ever, and the hardcore ones will benefit from it, what is the actual issue?

The fact that it'll end up being another thing to keep in mind to switch around mid trial for any HM since Rockgrove, trifecta progs, and scorepushing (I'd say that's more than 1% of the groups, but none of us has the stats on that), which will widen the gap between a greatly fine tuned setup and an average setup even more than it is right now. On top of that, it may feel tedious, deterring players even more from engaging with that content.

At the same, it'll likely cause an issue in the aspect that content is balanced taking the power ceiling as a consideration. If an abstract group can potentially perform to a X level, then a mediocre group will suffer more because they're further away from that reference.
The cherry on top is that the pug group that goes in vet to farm the set will likely suffer that even more if the content is designed to remain challenging according to the player possibilities.

Gabriel_H · January 12

code65536 wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Personally, I think all re-specs should be locked in trial content - including gear and skills. The content should be designed so that changing sets and skills is not necessary. Possibly have some leeway on the skills, with a limit on the number you can re-slot. I know RLs who require gear/skill changes from mob pack to mob pack, not just boss to boss or trash to boss.

You could balance it to allow for experimentation and progs and random PuGs by still allowing gear/skill changes BUT it bars achieveing speed, no death and trifecta runs.

Edit: Typos

I think what trials need is an "Ironman Mode" toggle. An item in the trial lobby that you can activate and deactivate as long as the trial timer hasn't started (obviously, it shouldn't be changeable once the timer starts).

If enabled, this will disable all respecs, lock down ability and CP bars, and lock down gear. No more changes to ability bars, no more changes to gear, and bring back the vitality cost for leaving the instance if you're in this mode.

In exchange for all those restrictions, you'll get a 40K score bonus (or some other number that's big enough to entice the score-pushing crowd).

This will...
Add a kind of "extra hard mode" that some people have been wanting: being forced to do the entire trial with only one setup.

Reduce some of the over-optimization that we're seeing at the very top (having something like 20 setups in Wizard's Wardrobe for a single trial).

Give people who just want achievements but don't care about competing for score the opportunity to engage with this power to make their life easier and to close the gap between them at the very top.

That will help take the edge off of some of the balance issues that we've been seeing in trials in recent years.

I've actually been expecting ZOS to implement something like this as the next stage above HM. Would be more than happy to run that, presuming the completion goes down the ladder knocking off the lower achievements, like getting a trifecta does.

Soarora · January 12

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Artisian0001 wrote: »

The VAST majority of people that do vet trials do not get policed on whether they are gear swapping and completely min maxxing.

The VAST majority of people that do vet HM trifectas do get policed.

And? Vet HM Trifectas are the hardest content in the game; if you want to attempt them, you owe it to the other 11 people that are counting on you to do everything in your power to min-max your build.

Trifectas, sure. Tri progs being months long with multiple run days a week is crazy. But it’s not just trifectas that are policed. It’s also hard mode. You can’t run older meta or off-meta but viable. I once got yelled at for OVER AN HOUR STRAIGHT (by multiple people!) because my Perfected Saxhleel gear was PURPLE instead of gold. For sanity’s edge hard mode. Of which I was not throwing.

This does not make endgame more accessible, it pushes people away. Every time someone mentions needing more trial tanks I laugh a bit considering that’s what I was doing before I gave up trying to deal with the constant pressure.

Gabriel_H · January 12

Soarora wrote: »

People sure love throwing out the 1% number in arguments. Every time, I read it as minimizing people by saying “it doesn’t matter, because I think you and everyone you play with is insignificant”. 1% is not a statistical number, you’ve pulled it out of nowhere.

To be fair, it may not be that far off the mark, that doesn't mean that the 1% should be ignored. I remember seeing a post about XBox users - the Play system has achievements, unlike Steam, and something like only 3% had completed Veteran dungeons and trials. So if only 3% have done vet, then what % have done HM.

Of course, that is a small sample compared to the number of PC players, but I would love to know the figures.

Soarora · January 12

Artisian0001 wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Artisian0001 wrote: »

M0R_Gaming wrote: »

Artisian0001 wrote: »

HatchetHaro wrote: »

Artisian0001 wrote: »

You can already do this, this patch doesn't change anything. Just because you can doesn't mean people will find it to be a requirement. People go through vet trials doing less than 40k dps in 2026, so this is just untrue.

[snip]

[snip]

If you are talking about it from the perspective of the casual playerbase, then wouldn't loosing vitality (or only being able to use respecs at low vitality) or some other punishment be fine? The casual playerbase would still be able to use the QOL systems, while keeping this behaviour out of faster and more competitive content. Also, trials do not have armoury stations in them and never have.

Also, separate from this, but if this respec goes through, can we at least get the armoury assistant subject to the same restrictions as the respecs? Being able to respec but not being able to use an armoury which does the exact same thing in a more convenient way is stupid.

What in your opinion is the actual downside to doing this considering that less than 1% of groups will make you respec like this in a run, and those that do already do similar things and are looking for any way in which they can get a faster clear? The casual people will not be forced into this ever, and the hardcore ones will benefit from it, what is the actual issue? All this would to is make an additional thing to code.

People sure love throwing out the 1% number in arguments. Every time, I read it as minimizing people by saying “it doesn’t matter, because I think you and everyone you play with is insignificant”. 1% is not a statistical number, you’ve pulled it out of nowhere.

It’s not like it’s only scorepushers that require optimization. Casual groups don’t, midgame does (even harder than endgame does, I think), endgame does with some wiggle room for if you know what you’re doing. Besides, don’t people have the right to be concerned over the content they do? It’s not taking anything away to add restrictions to respecs, casual groups aren’t respeccing mid-combat— they’re porting out to do it.

The restrictiveness of trials is enough of a problem that there’s people— casuals and several (but not all) dungeon endgamers alike, who avoid trials entirely. I don’t know where you’re finding these runs that let you do whatever.

You do realize you are doing the exact same thing you are claiming I'm doing right? You are using your own random metrics. I think you don't understand the amount of people that run trials vs. the amount that would make you swap your gear per boss or add pull, it's an extremely low amount. Again, if you are talking about just HM trifecta runs that's a different metric and you should try re reading what I wrote. The percentage of people who make you gear swap is low and this would be just as low if not lower.

I’ve made no claims with random metrics. I did not claim how big each of the groups are, I’m making a claim of how each group treats trials. I think any and all arguments in any context on this forum over how big or small a community is, is not worthwhile because we simply do not have the data. None of us can accurately tell how big each group is because we only have our own experiences.

And I’m not talking about trifecta runs.
[edited to remove quote]

CaptainRele · January 12

Agreed. Some form of penalty needs to be implemented on the score and/or the trifecta tracker to prevent respeccing mid run from becoming a necessity within trifecta progs or score pushes. No matter what, this will contribute to powercreep. Imagine being able to swap from beam to runeblades between trash and bosses, everyone being able to streak to speed through long runs through trash, get better ulti gen in trash before swapping to a better subclass for bosses.

As others said, it would be a nightmare to set up rosters for different morphs and subclasses between each fight as well. This doesn't need to affect casual players or even those just trying to clear hardmode - just let them swap with a penalty to score or port out to swap. But this cannot go live without some kind of penalty. If not for the sake of complicated rosters, then for the concerns about further powercreep.

salander7 · January 12

Gabriel_H wrote: »

To be fair, it may not be that far off the mark, that doesn't mean that the 1% should be ignored. I remember seeing a post about XBox users - the Play system has achievements, unlike Steam, and something like only 3% had completed Veteran dungeons and trials. So if only 3% have done vet, then what % have done HM.

Of course, that is a small sample compared to the number of PC players, but I would love to know the figures.

All those figures count players that tried the game for free in 2018 too. So take them with a truckload of salt.

If the performance of the x% impacts how content is designed, how challenging it is, and what does it take to clear, then that x% matters. It's irrelevant whether anyone wants to say 1%, 20% or 0.000001%.

Soarora · January 12

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

People sure love throwing out the 1% number in arguments. Every time, I read it as minimizing people by saying “it doesn’t matter, because I think you and everyone you play with is insignificant”. 1% is not a statistical number, you’ve pulled it out of nowhere.

To be fair, it may not be that far off the mark, that doesn't mean that the 1% should be ignored. I remember seeing a post about XBox users - the Play system has achievements, unlike Steam, and something like only 3% had completed Veteran dungeons and trials. So if only 3% have done vet, then what % have done HM.

Of course, that is a small sample compared to the number of PC players, but I would love to know the figures.

I saw that post and I still have the same question about it: how many people have completed the main quest? What about reach level 50?
The % clear rate means nothing in a vacuum, we need context of the overall playerbase to get a sense for how many people didn’t even really start playing to remove them from the pool. I’m sure not a supermajority does trials, partly BECAUSE of the pressure to submit to optimization (thus adding to the point that free respecs at any time will widen the gap), but it’s still true that thousands of people do (Aedra for instance, has over 5,000 members) and even if it’s a small number, they have the right to desire for their content to be enjoyable to them. Much like how people talk about dungeons and trials, I doubt a lot of people play Tales of Tribute. I still want players of Tales of Tribute to get balance suggestions they want. It’s their endgame, let them enjoy it.

JustLovely · January 12

I agree. We shouldn't be allowed to change our builds mid trial/dungeon.

sarahthes · January 12

Artisian0001 wrote: »

HatchetHaro wrote: »

Artisian0001 wrote: »

HatchetHaro wrote: »

Artisian0001 wrote: »

HatchetHaro wrote: »

Artisian0001 wrote: »

You can already do this, this patch doesn't change anything. Just because you can doesn't mean people will find it to be a requirement. People go through vet trials doing less than 40k dps in 2026, so this is just untrue.

[snip]

[snip]

[snip]

Artisian0001 wrote: »

[snip]

[snip]

[snip]

[snip]

Artisian0001 wrote: »

[snip]

[snip]

Artisian0001 wrote: »

[snip]

[snip]

Artisian0001 wrote: »

[snip]

[snip]

[snip]

I have around 50 gryphon hearts can I get a prize too?
[edited to remove quote]

M0R_Gaming · January 12

sarahthes wrote: »

Artisian0001 wrote: »

HatchetHaro wrote: »

Artisian0001 wrote: »

HatchetHaro wrote: »

Artisian0001 wrote: »

HatchetHaro wrote: »

Artisian0001 wrote: »

You can already do this, this patch doesn't change anything. Just because you can doesn't mean people will find it to be a requirement. People go through vet trials doing less than 40k dps in 2026, so this is just untrue.

[snip]

[snip]

[snip]

Artisian0001 wrote: »

[snip]

[snip]

[snip]

[snip]

Artisian0001 wrote: »

[snip]

[snip]

Artisian0001 wrote: »

[snip]

[snip]

Artisian0001 wrote: »

[snip]

[snip]

[snip]

I have around 50 gryphon hearts can I get a prize too?

I have 3 fungal grotto 1 vhm clears. Can I quality as well?
[edited to remove quote]

Artisian0001 · January 12

sarahthes wrote: »

Artisian0001 wrote: »

HatchetHaro wrote: »

Artisian0001 wrote: »

HatchetHaro wrote: »

Artisian0001 wrote: »

HatchetHaro wrote: »

Artisian0001 wrote: »

You can already do this, this patch doesn't change anything. Just because you can doesn't mean people will find it to be a requirement. People go through vet trials doing less than 40k dps in 2026, so this is just untrue.

[snip]

[snip]

[snip]

Artisian0001 wrote: »

[snip]

[snip]

[snip]

[snip]

Artisian0001 wrote: »

[snip]

[snip]

Artisian0001 wrote: »

[snip]

[snip]

Artisian0001 wrote: »

[snip]

[snip]

[snip]

I have around 50 gryphon hearts can I get a prize too?

You don't have it in your signature so no.
[edited to remove quote]

Gabriel_H · January 12

M0R_Gaming wrote: »

I have 3 fungal grotto 1 vhm clears. Can I quality as well?

The real challenge is a FG1 SR/ND, cos you have to kill the other 2 bosses before someone finishes that swim.

Fischblut · January 12

I am casual player who finally got into vet trials only thanks to subclassing... I "raid" with pugs, and 40k DPS from someone in the actual fight is pretty good for us - anything more is like a blessing

Just to show the other opinion on this unexpected (for me) thread. Please, do not take away ability to respec skills/morphs/subclasses while in group content!
I have been mostly unhappy with some upcoming changes, but free simple respec is one of few amazing things about upcoming update for me personally

There were so many times I wanted to change morph or one of my subclass lines in trial - I even used the respec scroll in one runs, because the other morph of one of my skills was absolutely more suitable. Nobody even asked me for such thing, but I wanted the group to have better utility of the better skill morph.

Respec will always be free, so it will remove the reason why someone in the group would not wish to change their skill morph if the group sees that this would help them to progress the trial/complete the fight easier. If person doesn't agree to change some ability morph, or replace subclass skill line to something more suitable, this person never really wanted the group to succeed

Some people in pugs use really bad gear and wrong skills for the same reason - they don't really care about other 11 people around them.
I think I'll always remember one dd who joined for vCR+3 hoping to get trifecta like this: blue gear, green enchantments; damage-over-time skill from Mages Guild, Wall of Elements and light attacks as the only damaging abilities. Thanks to those who provide logs!

If this option will allow organized trial groups who can do awesome score runs achieve even more epic results, more power to them!

I like to watch some crazy good videos of trifecta records on Yotube. vAS+2 in under 1 minute with one healer (and I'm not sure even if there was actual tank in that group)? While I had 2 tanks and 3 healers in my vAS+2 group - it didn't diminish our achievement for me

acastanza_ESO · January 12

100% Agree, respects in leaderboard content, and outside the Cyrodiil Gate/Bases (just like how vengeance perks can't be changed outside the gates)

Radiate77 · January 12

Guys, clean your posts up before someone else does it for you, if you have a personal argument take it private.

Gabriel_H · January 12

Fischblut wrote: »

I like to watch some crazy good videos of trifecta records on Yotube. vAS+2 in under 1 minute with one healer (and I'm not sure even if there was actual tank in that group)? While I had 2 tanks and 3 healers in my vAS+2 group - it didn't diminish our achievement for me

That video is likely showing you the outcome of a macro'd group. Rapidly swapping sets and skills to get as many buffs as possible before the fight starts.

Fischblut wrote: »

If this option will allow organized trial groups who can do awesome score runs achieve even more epic results, more power to them!

As for that. It will allow RLs to impose further restrictions on players, and demands on how they should spec and play. While some may like being told exactly what to do and when, I suspect it will be the straw that broke the camels back for many.

sarahthes · January 12

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Fischblut wrote: »

I like to watch some crazy good videos of trifecta records on Yotube. vAS+2 in under 1 minute with one healer (and I'm not sure even if there was actual tank in that group)? While I had 2 tanks and 3 healers in my vAS+2 group - it didn't diminish our achievement for me

That video is likely showing you the outcome of a macro'd group. Rapidly swapping sets and skills to get as many buffs as possible before the fight starts.

Fischblut wrote: »

If this option will allow organized trial groups who can do awesome score runs achieve even more epic results, more power to them!

As for that. It will allow RLs to impose further restrictions on players, and demands on how they should spec and play. While some may like being told exactly what to do and when, I suspect it will be the straw that broke the camels back for many.

They don't use macros they use add-ons. There's a difference. Add-ons are allowed by the API and TOS. Macros are not.

Prebuffing too much and waiting for stuff to swap actually slows things further. The most optimized groups actually prebuff less than the slightly less fast groups, because waiting to prebuff also kills score.

Gabriel_H · January 12

sarahthes wrote: »

They don't use macros they use add-ons. There's a difference. Add-ons are allowed by the API and TOS. Macros are not.

The skill presses are done by the code - that's a macro.

ZOS_Icy · January 12

Greetings,

After removing some unnecessary back and forth from this thread, we would like everyone to keep posts on the subject at hand, civil, and constructive. If there may be any questions in regards to the rules, please feel free to review them here.

The Elder Scrolls Online Team

tomofhyrule · January 12

One of the big problems here is just the fact that there are very few mid-tier guilds remaining.

Sure, you have the casual groups who won't care. They also struggle to get through normal trials, and really don't have a chance at getting vets done unless they stack the group with sweaty people without telling anyone. I've been in those groups where you have like half of the DPS doing less DPS than the healers. It's fun to bring them through, but those groups are not capable of vets without getting hard carried.

And then on the other side, you have the people who are hypersweats who can't even concieve of doing a standard vet farm run without hyper optimizing every little thing. The roster signups pretty well dictate every skill line that every support needs to have. You are not allowed to think on your own because it could make the group take 0.3 seconds longer.

The problem is ESO lost that middle section - the ones who are fully capable of vet content with the builds they enjoy and without hyperoptimizing. And that's the people who would be able to look at something like this and say "I don't need it, but it's nice that it's there."

As it is, we can just look at Subclassing - how many people are currently able to clear vets without Subclassing? If that number is significantly smaller than the number of people who are clearing with Subclassing, then it implies that there's a reason people are not able to clear things while pureclassed. Because we can see that there are a lot of people who like it and a lot who don't... but if only the people who do it are clearing regularly, that means that there is pressure to engage with the system or to stop running at all.

And that's exactly what this will lead to.

salander7 · January 12

Fischblut wrote: »

I am casual player who finally got into vet trials only thanks to subclassing... I "raid" with pugs, and 40k DPS from someone in the actual fight is pretty good for us - anything more is like a blessing
Just to show the other opinion on this unexpected (for me) thread. Please, do not take away ability to respec skills/morphs/subclasses while in group content!
I have been mostly unhappy with some upcoming changes, but free simple respec is one of few amazing things about upcoming update for me personally
There were so many times I wanted to change morph or one of my subclass lines in trial - I even used the respec scroll in one runs, because the other morph of one of my skills was absolutely more suitable. Nobody even asked me for such thing, but I wanted the group to have better utility of the better skill morph.

Respec will always be free, so it will remove the reason why someone in the group would not wish to change their skill morph if the group sees that this would help them to progress the trial/complete the fight easier. If person doesn't agree to change some ability morph, or replace subclass skill line to something more suitable, this person never really wanted the group to succeed Some people in pugs use really bad gear and wrong skills for the same reason - they don't really care about other 11 people around them.
I think I'll always remember one dd who joined for vCR+3 hoping to get trifecta like this: blue gear, green enchantments; damage-over-time skill from Mages Guild, Wall of Elements and light attacks as the only damaging abilities. Thanks to those who provide logs!

If this option will allow organized trial groups who can do awesome score runs achieve even more epic results, more power to them! I like to watch some crazy good videos of trifecta records on Yotube. vAS+2 in under 1 minute with one healer (and I'm not sure even if there was actual tank in that group)? While I had 2 tanks and 3 healers in my vAS+2 group - it didn't diminish our achievement for me

If your aim is just clearing stuff, you can port out mid trial before each boss as it is right now. OP meant for things like trifectas or scorepushing, which is where porting out mid trial matters because it costs valuable time.

The whole discussion must be understood within that scope, but taking into consideration that if you can perform up to X level with in-instance respecs, content will be adjusted with that possibility in mind. In a similar way Ossein Cage is probably harder with pureclassing, because subclassing extra power was taken into account when designing content. That would hurt not just the enjoyability of sweatier runs, but how feasible future content will be for more "regular" groups

M0R_Gaming · January 12

Gabriel_H wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

They don't use macros they use add-ons. There's a difference. Add-ons are allowed by the API and TOS. Macros are not.

The skill presses are done by the code - that's a macro.

This is incorrect, addons and macros are very clearly defined by ZOS's Addon TOS. Addons are UI mods that interface with the official API, similar to how the base interface does. Addons are limited to what ZOS allows them to do. Macros do not interface with the API and instead directly control a user. They are not the same thing, and macroing is bannable by TOS.

Gabriel_H · January 12

M0R_Gaming wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

They don't use macros they use add-ons. There's a difference. Add-ons are allowed by the API and TOS. Macros are not.

The skill presses are done by the code - that's a macro.

This is incorrect, addons and macros are very clearly defined by ZOS's Addon TOS. Addons are UI mods that interface with the official API, similar to how the base interface does. Addons are limited to what ZOS allows them to do. Macros do not interface with the API and instead directly control a user. They are not the same thing, and macroing is bannable by TOS.

What is incorrect? A macro is something that automates skill presses. That's what the super-fast kill video groups tend to use.

Radiate77 · January 12

100% agree.

Wizards Wardrobe and similar add-ons should also be restricted in trials and other leaderboard content.

ceruulean · January 12

Respecs everywhere would be a huge problem. We should reward players for coming prepared and commiting to their strategies, not for setting up 100 spreadsheets of gear changes and having 2 keyboards to swap between all the possible gear and skill combos.

There's already a distinction between "safe zones" (instant log out) and "unsafe zones" (10 second logout). Fix Leyawiin bank to be a safe zone, and restrict respecs to safe zones, like how Vengeance blocks you from changing perks and loadouts outside of the base. I think this would be the best compromise and it gives players incentives to return to their homes or to town...

code65536 · January 12

tomofhyrule wrote: »

The problem is ESO lost that middle section - the ones who are fully capable of vet content with the builds they enjoy and without hyperoptimizing.

I can't emphasize this enough.