Companions should be more useful by having jobs... SUCH AS DOING OUR CRAFTING SURVEYS!

SilverBride · February 2024

TaSheen wrote: »

*shrug* The campanions are for what anyone who bothers with them wants to do with them. Within, of course, the parameters provided by the devs.

I don't have any use for sidekicks at all. But if the devs decide to allow them to do surveys, well, some of you will obviously jump right on that - and some of you won't. At this point there's absolutely no point to arguing over semantics.

There is a point in defending against a suggestion that goes against the entire purpose of the Companions for a feature that can be done in a much better way.

If someone chooses not to use them to aid in combat that's their choice, but that doesn't mean they should be turned into anything a player wants them to be.

TaSheen · February 2024

N'ev mind. I don't need any more reports of "baiting".

And to actually address the most egregious point - so it's okay if they add another assistant which costs 5k crowns?

spartaxoxo · February 2024

I personally don't really understand why them doing a survey would mean they're a servant.

Nobody would call The Karate Kid or Luke Skywalker servants, but they had master/apprentice relationships. The servants only role is to do that, they aren't there to learn, just to make some cash. The companions would still be fighting alongside us.

SilverBride · February 2024

The Companions are not a Master/Apprentice relationship. Nowhere does it say anything about us taking them in to teach them. It says they are our allies who will fight along side us in combat.

What I don't understand is why an NPC created for the purpose of trading our surveys for a lesser amount of mats isn't acceptable. Especially when we already have Bankers and Merchants and the Ragpicker, so this isn't a new concept. Why the push to change an established feature instead?

TaSheen · February 2024

Because you're saying paying for an assistant is just fine. But people have already paid for the companions. Why should they want to pay a lot more for another assistant, instead of being able to leveraga the companions they've already paid for (several times....) to do minor tasks for the characters?

Your RP stuff is fine - for you. Just don't try to force it on others who don't agree, and don't want to pay twice (or three or four times) for a minor change to companions.

SilverBride · February 2024

The Companions were a new feature added to the game and there is no additional charge for accessing them. They have storylines and their own quests and they fight along side us. They are a feature, not a utility, and were not paid for separately.

Assistants such as the banker and the merchant and the Ragpicker that we can access pretty much anywhere were created specifically for the purpose of providing services for us.

So if a player is looking for an NPC to help them with surveys then an assistant is the most logical solution.

Erickson9610 · February 2024

I don't think Companions should be collecting Surveys, or even other related "treasure hunting" things like Treasure Maps, Antiquities, or Tribute Card Upgrades. I'd rather see a different NPC, like another Assistant or a Hireling take care of these things, if there ought to be an NPC to do these things for players at all. As it's been said, these "treasure hunting" activities motivate players to revisit old zones, which does have an impact on new players who are questing through these zones for the first time.

Companions, as they're designed, aid in combat, offer a questline with a self-contained story, have a Houseguest version of themselves, and offer a Keepsake which provides some account-wide buff. It's been said that Companions may eventually get romance options, but even that feels outside the scope of what a Companion should be able to do.

Further, the argument that "we paid for access to them" may not always hold — consider that 2024's Companions are being added in Update 44, rather than with the Chapter release in Update 42. This suggests that these two new Companions will not be part of the Gold Road Chapter, and thus will not be "pay to access" in the same sense as with the previous 6 Companions. What happens if we start getting Companions who are accessible in the base game for free?

spartaxoxo · February 2024

SilverBride wrote: »

The Companions are not a Master/Apprentice relationship. Nowhere does it say anything about us taking them in to teach them. It says they are our allies who will fight along side us in combat.

What I don't understand is why an NPC created for the purpose of trading our surveys for a lesser amount of mats isn't acceptable. Especially when we already have Bankers and Merchants and the Ragpicker, so this isn't a new concept. Why the push to change an established feature instead?

Being an ally doesn't exclude being an apprentice. It's fine that you don't see them that way. It's perfectly valid and definitely reinforced by positive rapport. But the negative rapport voice lines are equally valid in determining how someone views the relationship between themselves and their companion.

And I don't think it's invalid to view a companion that says a voice line like this as being in my service. This is Isobel btw.

"I will continue on in your service, of course. But given your actions I'd rather not engage in idle talk."

In the end, I think we should just agree to disagree on that.

As for why companions. It's because the companions are already part of the game. I wouldn't mind it if was some other assistant if bothers some so much for it to be a companion, but I don't want to pay a separate fee. I am tired of paying for constant separate fees for inventory management.

Edited to add Isobel's quote.

SilverBride · February 2024

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Being an ally doesn't exclude being an apprentice. It's fine that you don't see them that way. It's perfectly valid and definitely reinforced by positive rapport. But the negative rapport voice lines are equally valid in determining how someone views the relationship between themselves and their companion.

And I don't think it's invalid to view a companion that says a voice line like this as being in my service. This is Isobel btw.

"I will continue on in your service, of course. But given your actions I'd rather not engage in idle talk."

In the end, I think we should just agree to disagree on that.

As for why companions. It's because the companions are already part of the game. I wouldn't mind it if was some other assistant if bothers some so much for it to be a companion, but I don't want to pay a separate fee. I am tired of paying for constant separate fees for inventory management.

It bothers me a lot for it to be a Companion. I see them as allies, as is in their description, and use them when I need help with combat which their description says they will aid us in.

Honestly I think players should just get in the habit of doing a few of these every day and not letting them build up. But taking into consideration that it is harder for those on console to do these then I completely understand why this could be a problem for them and why help with this would be desirable.

I know players may not want to have to purchase an assistant, but why not have our hirelings collect them for us? That would also make sense and would not cost anything, since by their name "hireling" we already hired them to work for us.

spartaxoxo · February 2024

SilverBride wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Being an ally doesn't exclude being an apprentice. It's fine that you don't see them that way. It's perfectly valid and definitely reinforced by positive rapport. But the negative rapport voice lines are equally valid in determining how someone views the relationship between themselves and their companion.

And I don't think it's invalid to view a companion that says a voice line like this as being in my service. This is Isobel btw.

"I will continue on in your service, of course. But given your actions I'd rather not engage in idle talk."

In the end, I think we should just agree to disagree on that.

As for why companions. It's because the companions are already part of the game. I wouldn't mind it if was some other assistant if bothers some so much for it to be a companion, but I don't want to pay a separate fee. I am tired of paying for constant separate fees for inventory management.

It bothers me a lot for it to be a Companion. I see them as allies, as is in their description, and use them when I need help with combat which their description says they will aid us in.

Honestly I think players should just get in the habit of doing a few of these every day and not letting them build up. But taking into consideration that it is harder for those on console to do these then I completely understand why this could be a problem for them and why help with this would be desirable.

I know players may not want to have to purchase an assistant, but why not have our hirelings collect them for us? That would also make sense and would not cost anything, since by their name "hireling" we already hired them to work for us.

I also think that hirelings would be fine. I don't care who does it so long as the experience is improved, especially since I'm on console.

SilverBride · February 2024

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I also think that hirelings would be fine. I don't care who does it so long as the experience is improved, especially since I'm on console.

I hope they take all our suggestions and feedback into consideration and find a solution that would be best for all.

Vaughndaunted · February 2024

This has really become a deep conversation. I like it a lot. I hope everyone feels supported in their opinion and heard. I like both arguments as to why we shouldn’t have companions do surveys and why we should.

Something does have to be done about the survey overload on console… hopefully a viable solution can come forward.

Amottica · February 2024

derkaiserliche wrote: »

The problem is that surveys drop from "easy" crafting dailys, that are already very rewarding and fast to handle with mods.

Some people already use like 16 characters to do the daily crafting quests and then they would get even more out of them by just spending 2 minutes on each character.

This summs things up very well.

I do wits on multiple characters as many do. I work to do my surveys in bulk once a week or every other week. If I get behind on the surveys. I what makes sense, slow down on doing the writs.

I see it as it comes down to doing proper maintenance and controlling how much I try to do. It is simple and works.

LalMirchi · February 2024

Something that is very often ignored in similar discussions is that surveys are designed by the developers to be a time sink and probably will never be changed into fast or convenient methods.

Vaughndaunted · February 2024

LalMirchi wrote: »

Something that is very often ignored in similar discussions is that surveys are designed by the developers to be a time sink and probably will never be changed into fast or convenient methods.

ZOS looks at a lot of things. For example; Skills, they look at how much players use them in whatever activities and if it has little to no use… they change the skill to make it more usable.

In that case, if something is not getting done such as surveys… it would behoove ZOS to look into ways to make certain things a little better to get more out of those things.

ZOS absolutely wants us to craft… but there’s one little issue is players start to hoard surveys. They don’t want that. They want us to have less inventory issues. So… they have to see the issue and understand why it’s happening.

LalMirchi · February 2024

Vaughndaunted wrote: »

LalMirchi wrote: »

Something that is very often ignored in similar discussions is that surveys are designed by the developers to be a time sink and probably will never be changed into fast or convenient methods.

ZOS looks at a lot of things. For example; Skills, they look at how much players use them in whatever activities and if it has little to no use… they change the skill to make it more usable.

In that case, if something is not getting done such as surveys… it would behoove ZOS to look into ways to make certain things a little better to get more out of those things.

ZOS absolutely wants us to craft… but there’s one little issue is players start to hoard surveys. They don’t want that. They want us to have less inventory issues. So… they have to see the issue and understand why it’s happening.

While I found surveys to be tedious in the beginning I soon found a way to make them relatively painless. Storing my surveys in my house storage I then wait for my jewelry surveys accumulate to my trigger number (20), then I collect all surveys for that zone, fire up some lightly entertaining show on the TV and off I go.

There are usually opportunities to collect other nearby materials and occasionally leads. I use the Ring of the Wild Hunt to avoid mounting & dismounting as that is tedious. I'm sure many other players have similar strategies.

SilverBride · February 2024

I don't understand why players don't just do them the same day they get them.

I have a routine with my 7 characters of doing daily writs and placing everything I get from them in a housing chest.
The last character to do them gathers all these things and does the consumable master writs and turns them in. (I sell the others.)
I then go out and collect all the surveys I got that day, then head to town to deconstruct and clear my bag.

The whole thing takes less than an hour.

Vaughndaunted · February 2024

@SilverBride I figured out a way, but at some point, it’s monotonous. You try managing 20 characters daily. You don’t have to want extra functionality, but you shouldn’t go out of your way to knock the idea.

@LalMirchi I turn the iPad on and I usually get myself situated for the event. At times it’s relaxing, but it’s also still a lot of work to do. A game that’s 10 years old could use some updates to modernize and compete with new MMOs that offer what I’m asking in a much more efficient way. Due to me being loyal to ESO, a little customer service would be nice.

TaSheen · February 2024

I don't worry about them accumulating. I don't want to do them every day - a couple times a week is sufficient, or when I'm actually out of something. Otherwise I just let them accrue on my mains so I always have them for endeavors.

SilverBride · February 2024

Vaughndaunted wrote: »

@SilverBride I figured out a way, but at some point, it’s monotonous. You try managing 20 characters daily. You don’t have to want extra functionality, but you shouldn’t go out of your way to knock the idea.

I may not understand why players don't just do them, and I do not want the Companions reduced from combat allies to chore helpers, but I do support an assistant or having the hirelings help with gathering surveys.

Players may not want to spend the crowns for an assistant but convenience isn't free. And having someone else do something the player can do themselves is a convenience, not a necessity.

spartaxoxo · February 2024

Inventory management has gotten completely out of hand for most of the playerbase. So much so the devs are actively in the process of trying to fix it and have stated as much.

I understand that some people don't have this issue. But not everyone has an hour each play session to devote purely to managing inventory. It also isn't good game design.

While this idea isn't necessarily a necessity, it should not be dismissed as just some convenience either imo. It's a big issue with the enjoyment of the game.

SilverBride · February 2024

I'll never understand inventory management issues. I do surveys and maps as I find them, and never put them in storage to build up. It only takes minutes to do this every day.

Regardless I do support an assistant or hirelings helping out because I know not everyone has the desire to do these every day. But they are doable so it is a convenience.

[Edited to shorten and clarify.]

Pixiepumpkin · February 2024

SilverBride wrote: »

I'll never understand inventory management issues. I do surveys and maps as I find them, and never put them in storage to build up. It only takes minutes to do this every day.

1. Because different people play differnently and have different things going on in life which segues into #2.
2. Because people have different things going on in life and may not be able to play like you do.

If the game was not designed to clutter inventory with a myriad of things (goal is to drive players to ESO+), then inventory would be less of an issue.

For example. In WOW, I NEVER had inventory issues and I saved all kinds of stuff. I have things in my inventory from 2004 and still not out of space, and I don't use mules.

Collectable parts, maps, surveys, museum pieces, trash (some of which is useful for quests for example the crow quest in clockwork city), multiple gear sets (because Tanking, Solo, PVP, DPS all require different sets), consumables, furniture furniture furniture...the list goes on and on all add up to serious inventory issues and it seems that a large portion of the player base has these issues, which means the game needs redesinged to a degree becasue the issue of inventory management can not solely rest on the player shoulders.

NordSwordnBoard · February 2024

How would adding a feature to your companions detract from your enjoyment of them? You can continue to collect surveys as you see fit, as well as using your companions as you see fit. You could ignore the companion collection system if it does not suit you. Just like I've ignored the companion system entirely.

SilverBride · February 2024

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I'll never understand inventory management issues. I do surveys and maps as I find them, and never put them in storage to build up. It only takes minutes to do this every day.

1. Because different people play differnently and have different things going on in life which segues into #2.
2. Because people have different things going on in life and may not be able to play like you do.

This is why I am agreeable to an assistant or hirelings to help players out with their surveys. But I will never agree to using the Companions, who are our combat allies, to become free chore helpers.

Andromea · February 2024

I see there are some strong opinions about companions doing our surveys... or not. But then again, if I, the all powerful hero of Tamriel who has won battles, saved the world and so on... so if I can do surveys why wouldn't it be ok for my friend / companion / apprentice or how ever you see them ? It just makes sens to me that they help me in all circonstances, wouldn't that be the real friendship ? In the end of the day I might use that gold to buy a nice piece of equipment to them or may be even build a house.

In any case, I do not mind actually if it is another pnj who does it. And usually I do just as was suggested. Daily quests, writs, surveys... every day I play and in that order so I don't have huge stock. But even on PC it takes time. Clearly more than an hour for me. And clearly I do it only because I need the gold for ... housing purposes

. But I do happen to have a family, a job and some other activities I love so there are days I only have this one hour to play ESO. And frankly, if I could do something else than managing my inventory I wouldn't mind

Pixiepumpkin · February 2024

SilverBride wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I'll never understand inventory management issues. I do surveys and maps as I find them, and never put them in storage to build up. It only takes minutes to do this every day.

1. Because different people play differnently and have different things going on in life which segues into #2.
2. Because people have different things going on in life and may not be able to play like you do.

This is why I am agreeable to an assistant or hirelings to help players out with their surveys. But I will never agree to using the Companions, who are our combat allies, to become free chore helpers.

I was not addressing that part of your quote, I was explaining to you why people have inventory managment issues, I was replying to (as I quoted) "I'll never understand inventory management issues."

Vaughndaunted · February 2024

@SilverBride the reason I prefer companions do it is because I want this to be something that can be done with any and all houseguests. The thing is I’d like it to tie into companions as a function that helps them make their own armor/gear through doing surveys and gaining apprentice skills.

The companions being around us shouldn’t be simple. They can do more. They should do more. In Final Fantasy side characters have specific gear… why can’t companions?

SilverBride · February 2024

Andromea wrote: »

I see there are some strong opinions about companions doing our surveys... or not. But then again, if I, the all powerful hero of Tamriel who has won battles, saved the world and so on... so if I can do surveys why wouldn't it be ok for my friend / companion / apprentice or how ever you see them ? It just makes sens to me that they help me in all circonstances, wouldn't that be the real friendship ?

Because surveys are the player's chore. The Companions are stated to be our allies that aid us in combat, not in everything we do.

And I would never expect a real friend to go to my place of business and do my work for me, or do my grocery shopping or my laundry or any of my own personal obligations. That is not the role of a friend.

UGotBenched91 · February 2024

SilverBride wrote: »

UGotBenched91 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Taking the Companions that are here to fight by our side and turning them into servants is exactly what is being proposed.

No, I’m putting something into a video game that allows npcs to do writs for you for a fee is being proposed. No slavery or servitude is being suggested. That’s just dramatizing someone making a post suggesting adding additional features to fictional npcs characters.

That is not what the Companions are for. Ask for a new NPC helper, like the Ragpicker for example, to help with surveys, but the Companions are part of the story and NOT servants.

Alright, we are walking in circles here so we will just call it and quit bumping this thread.