MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »Toxic_Hemlock wrote: »snip...
Reaching ones personal limits in combat IS in fact all EA is about. That's why it's endless.
If someone isn't interested in this, fine. Others aren't interested in ToT, groups, PvP and whatnot.
The solution is always the same: If you aren't interested in a specific part of a game, don't use it.
There a enough people out there, which are interested in this gamemode. There are also a lot of casuals, which are working on better builds and are looking for chances to improve their combat skills. EA offers exactly these chances. It's a place where everyone is able to progress if they are willing to.
It's not a place solely for seasoned veterans and experienced raiders but indeed for the whole playerbase.
And there is absolutely no reason to destroy that.
Taking one point at a time here..
1) Many of us don't want to see what our personal limit is. As a matter of fact many of us IMO just want to have fun and not be stressed out in a game.
2) Yes there are many other game modes, ToT being a non starter IMO as it is not what the subject here is. The others PvP, Trails, Arenas etc. are for more the elites players hence why they have a leaderboard (competition). Overland does not have a leaderboard, hence it is for casuals (non-competitive).
3) Not playing a certain aspect of the game is fine, but as this was and still is advertised as for everyone, it falls flat there.
4) Yes, some will adapt and try different builds, but IMO those are the players that already enjoy this type of gameplay, the rest of us casuals will just go back to overland leaving it un-played.
Finally, nobody wants to destroy it, on the contrary we want it to be playable by everyone, and as it sits now it is not. All I have seen here is suggestions to make it better. Yes, many say it is too easy at early levels and others say the bosses are too difficult for early arcs, but none of us want it destroyed, just improved to be accessible for everyone.
Bottom line. If they want it to be accessible to everyone (as was advertised) they have to decrease the difficulty, that will make the elites upset as they want the challenge. If they keep it as is, or make it more difficult it makes yet another activity some of us will never touch. Splitting normal/vet is the best option, but they don't seem to want to do that. So the only other option (if they want it be be accessible to everyone) is to make it easier at the start. The elite may complain that they NEED to go though multiple arcs of braindead content to get to the good stuff, but at least they can do the braindead stuff, some of us can't even get to the last boss of the first arc.
Very well then, let's see into your arguments:
1) I already told you the solution to that: Simply don't participate in content you aren't interested in. If you aren't interested in experiencing combat with steadily raising difficulty up to your personal limit, you simply aren't interested in EA. That's ok. For other people reaching those limits and testing theirselves isn't stressing, but relaxing and enjoyable. There is enough place for both aspects in this game: Overland is relaxing, something to walk in it and enjoy the atmosphere. EA is a place where you can go if you are looking for a more active sort of gameplay. You can even switch between those places freely at any time.
2) Why is ToT a non-starter? It's a part of the game, as any other (unless EA not open for all players tho, as it's chapter content). Many enjoy it, others despise it. Exactly like EA and any other content (from overland to housing, from PvP to trials, from fishing to trading). Your exclusion is flawed.
3) Yes, EA was advertised for everyone and in fact EA is for everyone. It's free2play and all players are invited to fight in there till they reach their personal limit. I can't see any indication for misleading advertizing. If a player decides to being not interested in the offered content by using their free will, doesn't mean there is anything wrong with the offer. You got what you were promised.
4) Sure, not all players will participate. Some will for a time, some will from time to time, some will try to do it endlessly. I fail to see how this differentiates to any part of the game. It's also not a matter of playerskill (I assume you try to refer to this using terms like "casual" vs "elite").
Finally, nerfing EA down to a point, where everyone can complete it without any effort would exactly destroy this content. You couldn't be challenged and reach your personal limit anymore after all.
Bottom line. For the sake of the more casual players it's vital to leave the lower Arcs at their current state. Otherwise they couldn't progress. For years I read in this forums, that the gap between normal and veteran content is far too high and there aren't places around, where players could train their combat skills in their own pace. Well, here it is, EA is the answer to also this concerns. Once again, there is no need for any difficulty chances (most probably for the sake of most easiest farming). On the contrary, they would be harmful.
I'm not interested in the content. I want the class set for my DK. I fully expect to hate the experience and once I've gotten the set never touch it again. At least I hope to never touch it again. In all probability, there will be leads I want stuck in there and I will have to go back. It will be an unpleasant grind. I will do it because I have to, not because I want to.
MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »There is no way The Serpent and Rakkhat should be in aArc 1. Even with a lower HP they are not something the average player can deal with. They are way harder than Tho 'at V1 and even the marauders who only show up at Arc 2.
what is difficult about serpent or rakkhat? serpent you just kill the totems that pop up and heal through the bursts she does every once a while. rakkhat when its doing the machine gun attack you go to the golden circles which gives you resistance to again just heal through it without even blocking. then you move out of the circle cuz its gonna jump there and turn it blue which you should avoid.
well i realize since they are trial bosses most players might not know the mechanics but really there isn't much else to them.
I followed the mechanics. Rakkhat knocked me out of the golden circle off the platform to death repeatedly.
But adjusting Arcs beyond this only makes EA more boring for everybody who can progress beyond Arc 1. The whole point of EA is to find your personal limit and push yourself beyond it. If it takes 30-60 min longer to even get there, then EA isn't a challenge any more, but a chore.
spartaxoxo wrote: »For me (outside of the marauders), Endless Archive already isn't challenging until Arc 4. So I would personally not care if the first three arcs were nerfed so that it would be less time consuming. It's already takes like an hour before I find a challenge.
spartaxoxo wrote: »For me (outside of the marauders), Endless Archive already isn't challenging until Arc 4. So I would personally not care if the first three arcs were nerfed so that it would be less time consuming. It's already takes like an hour before I find a challenge.
Now imagine if EA isn’t challenging until Arc 6, because progression has been adjusted down as the OP I was responding to suggested. Do you want it to take 1.5 hours before you find a challenge?
OP was asking for slower progression. To me that means adjusting down everything to maintain a steady increase in difficulty. I already explained why I think that’s not a good idea.
I think you understand it as only nerfing the first 3 Arcs and leaving everything else the same, which however disrupts the progression and widens the gap thereafter. In this case I indeed see your point.
All in all I want to conclude with some recommendations. Split up the thing into normal and veteran, Casual players would get to at least experience one Arc and normal players could get a couple before it ramped up to veteran levels of difficulty. And the top 20% of players could just jump into veteran mode which would be like the difficulty we have now so they skip some of the ramp up.
SilverBride wrote: »I was hoping that the Endless Archive would be for everyone, but it's looking more and more like it's just going to be another elitist playground. If the very first Arc starts like this then a lot of players will only be able to get up to Tho'at and not progress any further.
All we are asking is that this boss be tuned down some for the first few Arcs but others argue against this because they want the difficulty from the start and don't want to be bored getting to the content they enjoy. But what about the rest of us?
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin Please consider our feedback so more players can enjoy this new feature.
SilverBride wrote: »I like that this is not just another arena where we stand there and wait for waves of mobs.
I like that there are side mini games that are a lot of fun.
I like that there are side quests as well as the daily that give me some objectives besides just killing stuff.
I like that there are achievements with rewards. I got a memento tonight that I acutally used and I don't normally care about mementos. (Summoned Booknado)
I like that every stage we complete we get to choose a verse that helps us as we move through the Archive.
I like that this is not just another arena or another dungeon because of its unique features and it's own currencies and rewards that can be earned or purchased.
...
I liked many of those things too. Past tense because I learned that this fun expires once you're locked into higher difficulties on the portals, account-wide. Meaning more frustration, higher rate of failure, overall fewer rewards. That's the thing I'm most salty about personally.
But re: experiencing more, that's kind of the thing. There isn't more. All of that stuff listed stays exactly the same. Repeat runs in Arc 1 give you everything there is (minus the dye and some titles, if you care about those).
In later arcs it's just interspersed with increasingly tiring combat - AKA the main draw, most enjoyable bit for others. Mostly it really is just waves of mobs, which nobody at either end of the spectrum seems to like, and from what I gather, people on PTS spoke up about to little avail.
Edit: Actually... this made me realize something. I don't have to care about Filer's Wing anymore, that I cannot pass at 4/5. Having seen what else is in EA, I'm good. I don't need that Visions upgrade. So yeah, I'm gonna be walking straight back out the portal next time I see that Watcher boss, who's infinitely disappointed in me. Only sucks that it spawns way more often than the doable ones, replacing chances for rewards.
SilverBride wrote: »Being able to complete Arc 1 successfully has nothing to do with being an elitist.
Why not tweak one boss for the very first Arcs so that a lot more players can enjoy this new feature?It was about time, that zos stopped that gamebreaking nonsense.
What is game breaking is raising the bar too high for the average player to get past even one Arc.
I'm still waiting for proof regarding your claim, that the average player can't proceed beyond Arc 1. All evidence says otherwise.
Besides that: You are already demanding nerfs for several Arcs, not just the first one.
Without even experiencing the content you wanna see nerfed.
SilverBride wrote: »I'm still waiting for proof regarding your claim, that the average player can't proceed beyond Arc 1. All evidence says otherwise.
A lot of players have posted they are having trouble completing Arc 1 because of the Tho'at fight, and I've heard the same in game.Besides that: You are already demanding nerfs for several Arcs, not just the first one.
I have requested and suggested, but have not demanded anything.Without even experiencing the content you wanna see nerfed.
I have experienced the content solo without a Companion, solo with a Companion and duo with 3 different friends. I've also used 4 different characters to see how they each would perform. So I have absolutely experienced the content.
spartaxoxo wrote: »You don't have to have experienced something personally to have an opinion it. If you have read enough testimony to understand to form an opinion, then that's fine.
Like I don't PvP hardly ever, but I have heard enough people over the years say that they performance in Cyrodiil fixed, more meaningful PvP content, etc. So, I hope PvPers gets those things.
SilverBride wrote: »What is game breaking is raising the bar too high for the average player to get past even one Arc.
SilverBride wrote: »I was hoping that the Endless Archive would be for everyone, but it's looking more and more like it's just going to be another elitist playground. If the very first Arc starts like this then a lot of players will only be able to get up to Tho'at and not progress any further.
All we are asking is that this boss be tuned down some for the first few Arcs but others argue against this because they want the difficulty from the start and don't want to be bored getting to the content they enjoy. But what about the rest of us?
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin Please consider our feedback so more players can enjoy this new feature.
Being able to complete Arc 1 successfully has nothing to do with being an elitist, but everything with using the basic game mechanics the game is trying to teach us since the tutorial:
1) Stay out of red fields.
2) Block when told to do so.
3) Interrupt when told to do so.
That's very well doable for an average player.
Nothing more is needed to succeed against the first iteration of Tho'at. Not even dodging.
I think some people now simply get presented the consequences of ignoring every single mechanic in this game for several years while pulling whole trains of enemies after them.
It was about time, that zos stopped that gamebreaking nonsense. Well done!
spartaxoxo wrote: »You don't have to have experienced something personally to have an opinion it. If you have read enough testimony to understand to form an opinion, then that's fine.
Like I don't PvP hardly ever, but I have heard enough people over the years say that they performance in Cyrodiil fixed, more meaningful PvP content, etc. So, I hope PvPers gets those things.
Sure, but it's an uneducated opinion then.
And it definitely doesn't turn a minority into a majority.
If you want to convince me, there has to come something better. Preferably facts.
SilverBride wrote: »I like that this is not just another arena where we stand there and wait for waves of mobs.
I like that there are side mini games that are a lot of fun.
I like that there are side quests as well as the daily that give me some objectives besides just killing stuff.
I like that there are achievements with rewards. I got a memento tonight that I acutally used and I don't normally care about mementos. (Summoned Booknado)
I like that every stage we complete we get to choose a verse that helps us as we move through the Archive.
I like that this is not just another arena or another dungeon because of its unique features and it's own currencies and rewards that can be earned or purchased.
...
I liked many of those things too. Past tense because I learned that this fun expires once you're locked into higher difficulties on the portals, account-wide. Meaning more frustration, higher rate of failure, overall fewer rewards. That's the thing I'm most salty about personally.
But re: experiencing more, that's kind of the thing. There isn't more. All of that stuff listed stays exactly the same. Repeat runs in Arc 1 give you everything there is (minus the dye and some titles, if you care about those).
In later arcs it's just interspersed with increasingly tiring combat - AKA the main draw, most enjoyable bit for others. Mostly it really is just waves of mobs, which nobody at either end of the spectrum seems to like, and from what I gather, people on PTS spoke up about to little avail.
Edit: Actually... this made me realize something. I don't have to care about Filer's Wing anymore, that I cannot pass at 4/5. Having seen what else is in EA, I'm good. I don't need that Visions upgrade. So yeah, I'm gonna be walking straight back out the portal next time I see that Watcher boss, who's infinitely disappointed in me. Only sucks that it spawns way more often than the doable ones, replacing chances for rewards.
Araneae6537 wrote: »Maybe we can complete that one working together? I’m getting better at finding the tomes, but there’s just so much chaos and having NO heal nor health recovery…The goat and the crossing were fun challenges, and the duel too, although I wish I could somehow queue that one more often to work at it… I guess the watcher one too because I’d probably learn faster…
I do enjoy the randomness and whimsy also in the EA, but the lethality ramps up faster than my skill! Sometimes it leaves me feeling frustrated when I haven’t gotten to further stages or defeated more of the side quests, but I try to focus on that I am getting better, and motivated to try different things with my builds and strategies. And the occasional leads and book furnishings are definitely motivating too!
spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »You don't have to have experienced something personally to have an opinion it. If you have read enough testimony to understand to form an opinion, then that's fine.
Like I don't PvP hardly ever, but I have heard enough people over the years say that they performance in Cyrodiil fixed, more meaningful PvP content, etc. So, I hope PvPers gets those things.
Sure, but it's an uneducated opinion then.
And it definitely doesn't turn a minority into a majority.
If you want to convince me, there has to come something better. Preferably facts.
No, it's not. There's more ways to learn than first hand experience. It doesn't turn a minority into a majority, but it does give a good hint as to what is the majority opinion expressed online.