My main and alt Templars would really appreciate these buffs or any buffs really.

mariuszeb17_ESO5 wrote: »

-Current damage only arouse laughter and pity from other classes.

This made me chuckle lol

zos doesn't like templar class apparently

Billium813 wrote: »

Just FYI, but you should probably rename this thread for a PvP perspective since all your points are obviously aligned with PvP only in mind.

I won't change anything, the topic concerns a slight improvement of the Templar class and doesn't matter perspektive.

"describe how Sun Fire would be buffed rather than trying to make it MORE obsolete."
Here you go -> just add buff Major Breach to skill and make Major Savagery and Major Prophecy passive(when slot on bar).

" If Jabs feels bad in 1v1 PvP, maybe the issue isn't so much Jabs, but rather how you are trying to use an AOE Skill for damage."
Unfortunately, the melee templar doesn't have much choice if he wants to use class skills. Maybe the solution would be to increase the damage provided that the skill only hits a single target.

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

I still believe if Blazing Shield was good offensively, and cost less to cast it, Templar would be in a great spot, at least Stam.

I know Hybrid is extremely strong right now, and that’s probably why they aren’t touching our skills.

What do you mean by "Hybrid" . Do you mean ranged plar? Because if not I genuinely don't know what kind of build you're referring to.

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

Essence thief and deadly, it’s not rocket science. Need that extra bit of damage?
Throw on Sea Serpent.

Does it suck walking around like a snail?
Sure!

But it doesn’t suck being able to absolutely delete anyone that doesn’t run away from you.

Last I checked, StamPlars weren’t using Honor the Dead, Radiant Glory, and an Ice Staff even though MagPlars occasionally slotted dual wield, they surely weren’t using Vigor, Rending Slashes or Biting Jabs.

Well, thats not what I expected it to be. That setup is fine, but the one I had in mind actually hits significantly harder.
I suggest you look into some crit builds my friend. hint hint, its not acuity.
Anyway, this will be the last reply I make because I don't want to change the direction of this thread, as it was not originally made for talking about builds.

To keep this at least somewhat on track:
Adjust the scaling of Backlash
Adjust Blazing shield, because its so bad that I have literally never even unlocked the skill before.
Make it so jabs isnt nerfed by Evasion.

Billium813 wrote: »

Just FYI, but you should probably rename this thread for a PvP perspective since all your points are obviously aligned with PvP only in mind.

mariuszeb17_ESO5 wrote: »

1. Add to Solar Barrage skill - Major Savagery and Major Prophecy buf instead of Empower.
- Sun Fire morphs just useless in PVP,
- Now Camouflaged Hunter IMO still is better option

I agree that Camouflaged Hunter is too good. It's too easy to just slot and forget IMO. I think it's a failure of a skill when many players slot it, yet rarely ever actually use it.

However, I'm not sure I follow how saying that Sun Fire isn't good in PvP means that Solar Barrage then should get a buff. If Sun Fire is bad, in your opinion, then maybe describe how Sun Fire could be buffed rather then trying to make it MORE obsolete.

mariuszeb17_ESO5 wrote: »

2. Increase the base damage of Backlash and morphs, so that they are at least a little closer to the potential of Curse or Deep Fissure skill.
-Current damage only arouse laughter and pity from other classes.

IMO, the whole design of Backlash is an issue. This "storing up damage for a big burst" has been a constant thorn in side for PvP. This skill has gone through SOO many changes over the years trying to get it right and there just doesn't really seem to be a good middle ground that matches players expectations.

I'm not saying I dislike the design, but it obviously has issues with PvP balance. If it's too bursty, then people complain it's too good. If it's weak, then people complain. Balancing between people that want PotL to nuke people, and players that hate dying to burst, is proving to be complicated.

mariuszeb17_ESO5 wrote: »

3. Increase the base damage of Puncturing Strikes and morph by at least 5%.
- This is a basic damage spam bility, that is reduced by 20% by Major Evasion - quite unfair compared to other classes.

No doubt Puncturing Strikes feels bad in PvP, however I don't think a base 5% damage buff is the answer.

I think the issue here actually is that players need to re-align their expectations with what an AOE spammable should be able to do in smaller scale PvP fights. Jabs is great in order to hit multiple enemies. It has a wide range and has several quick chances to crit proc! That utility is worth something, so they can't also balance Jabs around single target damage too. If Jabs feels bad in 1v1 PvP, maybe the issue isn't so much Jabs, but rather how you are trying to use an AOE Skill for damage.

Jabs was always used as a single target spammable and intended to be used this way. Players using „AoE Skill“Jabs for (single target) dmg is not the issue, the dmg to first target is much higher than the dmg to additional targets.
The AOE dmg on other targets after nerf is also too low and bad compared to other AoE spammables.
Jabs is an AoE and single target spammable and despite beeing AOE dmg better as a single target spammable.

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Maybe for jabs they could make the primary target damage count as single-target. That way evasion isn't as hard of a counter 1v1.

If the primary target dmg gets changed to single target dmg, than it should also be dodgeable like single target dmg. Players always pretend that beeing AoE dmg is an disadvantage because it gets reduced by major and minor evasion like every player had it, but only minority of solo players has major and/or minor evasion in their build. Only class i have major evasion is magicka nightblade and mainly because phantasmal escape also gives snare removal+immunity and cheaper dodge rolls. It is flex spot for lotusfan, shade, draw essensse, impale, crippling grasp, swallow soul and other skills, there are a lot of alternative skills i could slot insteat, so I could also play nb without evasion.
But every player can use dodge roll and it reduces single target by 100% but not AoE dmg like current Jabs. Isnt ignoring dodge roll more valuable than ignoring evasion that most players dont even have?

gariondavey wrote: »

I don't have space for a new sunshield unless it gives major expedition or major savagery or something like that.
Yes, please change jabs to have primary target be single target with an aoe splash. Or revert the animation and damage nerf from u35.
Please change potl to be a 6 second curse. No more stored damage nonsense and hitting like a noodle even with 9k spell damage and 25k pen.
Major brutality and sorcery should come from base skill of jabs, and should be on both bars for slotting like arcanist skill does.

single target skills with splash dmg like reverse slash or silver shard are dodgeable and if primary target dodges, the splash dmg also doesnt hit anyone. If you prefer it that way it is fine.

Reverting the animation and damage nerf from u35 and giving potl the dmg of blastbones, subassault 2 or Dawnbreaker initial hit is what ZoS should do.

Majority of players including non templars ask for revert Jabs nerf, especially the animation.
It was really a bit too strong and without a snare removal templars can reposition Jabs faster than you can run out, so the nerf to the snare should not get reverted.
Potl is really in a bad state and should deal more dmg and not be double hit by battlespirit and mitigation, but it definitely shouldn’t be reverted to pre u36 dmg where I often got 15k and one time even 18k PotL on mag dk by extremely tanky templars, that could just facetank and outheal magdk dmg without even blocking or dodging. Crescent Sweep+Purifying light(unblockable) is definitely too low time to kill especially if you are extremely tanky yourself and not a squishy ganker. It feeled more like a cheat than a fair defeat when you get oneshottet by 12k crescent+18k potl.
U33 templar was as strong as mag dk and despite mag dk also getting nerfed it is still good and half the forum is players asking for more dk nerfs. Reverting templar to u33 when it was strongest will make it by far the strongest class.

Personally, I'd like a jabs buff, but as aoe. More area. Why have an aoe, if it only can hit a small area? I think javelin should add a dot to it, a bleed. Power of the light should add minor berserk to castor for 8s. Blazing shield should do more too. Maybe have the other morph scale off max mag/stam and give minor evasion or something. Dev's need to make some rarely used skills more usable. I'd love to see a nova version where the player burst with fire around them instead of a ground based one.

Jabs isn't an AoE skill per se, though. It's a Single-Target skill with splash damage. Treating the ST damage portion as such, and not applying Evasion to it, would be the logical thing to do. It would bring it on par with other melee ST skills (and let's not forget that it is channeled)

After reading all these "buff jabs" comments, I wanted to share a bit of my own research results:
The current iteration of jabs (single target part) has the exact same base damage as flurry (+/- 1 damage because of rounding). Scaling seems to be identical as well. The only difference: you can use "Deadly Aim" CP with flurry, which is actually countered by the buff of Solar Flare. So as far as single target channeled attack goes it is top tier.

So what about making jabs single target:
To stay in the power budget Puncturing Strikes would loose all AoE damage and be an alternate version of Flurry with an additional 1m reach. AND you can only cast it when aiming at an enemy in reach, which would be a major downside to its current version (probably the reason no templar uses flurry). For the magicka morph you would get your healing as currently implemented (still no AoE) and for Biting Jabs you would either get the AoE back or Major Brutality and Sorcery.

None of this seems desirable to me. So as others have mentioned before me: ZOS should rather adjust underused/underwhelming abilities

Jabs is on an odd spot as it's damage is only decent single target, while the splash damage makes it considered AOE. Seems it either needs to go full damage in the cone to justify it being impacted by evasion, or made single target at its core and only the splash damage impacted by evasion or removed entirely. The damage of the splash is so negligible; it's only value might be status effects or other secondary applications

Either way, there's going to be people who hate it.

POTL/PL really only having 5 seconds to fill after the initial global, and cyrodiil lag while trying factored in; make it very lackluster. Sounds like the OP wants it to be more like curse with just a procedural nod to the Templar flavor. Would be better than it is, at least.

I see magor savagery as an idea to at least free the slot people use for camo hunter to at least get it on, and I like the line of thinking, but we already have major and minor prophecy in the kit. Again; it does require a slot for an ability many do not want to use. So there is a log jam there.

Overall, the class has a good power budget. It's just poorly designed to make it practical. Like suggesting you build for dueling and having that pretty much leave you required to do what in Cyrodiil exactly? That is the pvp thae majority of people who PvP do, after all. And not to run around a tower to get a 1v1, either. And I'm sure by a very wide margin

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

VinnyGambini wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

Essence thief and deadly, it’s not rocket science. Need that extra bit of damage?
Throw on Sea Serpent.

Does it suck walking around like a snail?
Sure!

But it doesn’t suck being able to absolutely delete anyone that doesn’t run away from you.

Last I checked, StamPlars weren’t using Honor the Dead, Radiant Glory, and an Ice Staff even though MagPlars occasionally slotted dual wield, they surely weren’t using Vigor, Rending Slashes or Biting Jabs.

I thnik you are missing the point.

This is the problem with having two damage skill lines and a healing one

I think this brings up a good topic, in a broader sense. I've been thinking about this topic of "Class Skill alignment" more and more recently; specifically as it pertains to Skills like Sun Shield and Radiant Destruction.

Take Sun Shield / Radiant Ward for instance. I've used this Skill quite a lot over they years. I know there is some debate on how good/bad this Skill is (which isn't my point atm), but I think most players would view this Skill from a Tank / Support perspective. However, one of the things that has always bothered me about this Skill is the damage component!
As a Tank, I feel like the damage aspect is inconsequential. Sun Shield seems to be this "hybrid" Skill that is budgeted for damage AND Tanking. Except, it more or less ends up failing at being good at either. Over the years, ZOS has increased the damage, and increased the Shield scaling, but it still seems to be just not that good. I feel like one main issue is this duality in its design, which hampers its power budget and limits the class as a whole in functionality. Especially when it seems to be the Classes minor role (Templar -> DPS/Support with a minor in Tanking, DK is DPS/Tank, with a minor in Support, ect but more on that later...)

The other thing to consider is how Class Skills have been changed over the years. Take Radiant Destruction for example. In the beginning, this was a classic Tank/Support skill called Blinding Light. Then it got completely rewritten to Radiant Destruction, an obvious DPS aligned Skill. This can certainly give the suspicion of a Class lacking in a specific role.

Is there an imbalance in the Class kits? Are imbalances by design from ZOS? Does ZOS intend for Templar to be not as functional in some roles as others? IOW, "Play however you want" doesn't mean "Play however you want and be good at it". Maybe...

For example:
i think "Hybrid Skill" are a bit dangerous because of how players choose a Skill to use and the roles we play under. Tank/Support aligns fairly well given their roles, but DPS/Tank, or DPS/Support can feel a bit low in power given the clashing of roles and how players perceive the game. DPS is easy to gauge, but Tank and Support less so. We have content designed around the classic Tank/Healer/DPS design and when a player puts together a build, that's where they build for! This hybridization of roles in skill design just ends up ruining the options by splitting the power budget AND it doesn't seem to be equal across Classes. Meaning some classes suffer from this issue less then others.

I think a better strategy would be to remove all Hybrid leanings and leave that change up to the morphs. Something like Sun Shield as a "good" shield design, but having a morph that reinforces the shield design to make it better vs a morph that drops the shield in favor of more damage. Same with Radiant Destruction.

Templar not have good defense skill tree.

Things we need :

-Defensive mobile ultimate (By mobile i means we can MOVE not like our healing ultimate that where's you are forced to stay still)
-Changes to whole sun shield ability or change it to new mechanic like overhealing(chich means give it as passive and get every overhealing as damage shield ,shield is not affected by battle spirit because healing are already so this could be again overkill)
-Buff or changes how jabs interact with Major minor evasion.
-Give us more tank tools like aoe cc(mass immobilize) or burst max health healing.
-Changes to passives like Soul gem useless or Illuminate Prism should be 1thing (DK mountain blessing is 100% similiar thing)
-Relocate damage from execute to other skills.
-Some changes to lacking abilities like Radiant Aura wchich is complete useless morph right now. Grant absolute nothing.
-Repentence change it's ok but for me it's still lacking ability should grant something extra maybe some extra minor or secondary active effect that do something when corpses are not nearby we are not necromancers we can't produce corpses from nothing. Our damage not help too with making corpses from players.
-Healing Ritual changes. One morph should 100% egoist healing with minor expedition , second morph should stay similiar to current options but need buffs somewhere , maybe in cost. Almost no one use this ability.
-Change Everlasting sweep again and grant it Major Sunsphere +20% to class damage skills. (Good counter to Major minor evasion if you don't care about changes to jabs interaction with major minor evasion jabs are useless ability because of this buffs.