Repair costs

Khandi · May 2014

Xithian wrote: »

My guess is that they're avoiding the whole "tank gets stuck with massive repair bills, ranged point and laugh" scenario by evening the playing field with repair costs. While you may not like your gold bouncing back and forth like that, it's part of a balancing act. If repair costs are halved, then vendor prices for selling loot will be halved right along with it. To drastically drop gold out without dropping gold in will just kill the value of gold across the game.

While I agree that the reasoning behind it is probably to even it out, I still feel it is too costly. Maybe they should up the quest reward gold?

KariTR · May 2014

I rarely repair**, I just open my bag and choose a new piece from the many I have picked up while questing. When I get to a main town, decayed items with no merchant value get deconstructed (no need to hang on to anything as researching takes upwards of 7 days now) and other pieces get sold.

When I saw this thread had been bumped last night, I actually thought it was because people were commenting on how repair costs had been (stealth) reduced in the last patch. My impression of total repair costs when selling to a store does seem to be that repair costs have come down, but that may be due to my own habit of replacing as necessary. Oh and when swapping, if I have comparable ones with different traits, I will always choose the sturdiest, given the option.

Another thing. I wonder if people complaining about repair costs are selecting the 'repair all' option, not realising will end up paying to repair something they are no longer wearing? If you are not aware, the store will repair every piece of item in your bag, rather than just what you have equipped at the time.

**If I like the look of a main piece, I will repair it. But that is complete vanity and not a necessity.

Awesometographer · May 2014

Xithian wrote: »

My guess is that they're avoiding the whole "tank gets stuck with massive repair bills, ranged point and laugh" scenario by evening the playing field with repair costs.

I agree that this needs to happen... but they're doing it the wrong way IMO.

When my team does dungeons, the tank spends a lot of gold on repair kits so he's top notch for every boss.

As a DPS, does your stamina /magicka pool drop as your gear degrades, or your regen? Nope... but armor, one of the tanks main assets in performing his job degrades simply by existing...

As a healer / DPS, we can sit there (albeit taking a bit more damage) until our gear hits 0 and still DPS or heal with full efficiency... TANKS CANNOT - unless they spend money on repair kits, or take the time out to go repair... Costs that this method seems to want to remedy.

ARMOR VALUES NEED TO REMAIN UNTIL GEAR IS BROKEN. I can live with armor decay (though it should be slower) and the costs... but a tank more squishy than a healer because he's been in a couple fights is a bad mechanic. You want the encounters to be hard? Then make the encounters harder... don't make bad decay mechanics do that for you.

Ohioastro · May 2014

I sympathize with the desire to have less extreme repair bills. Tying it directly to damage results in very different bills for different play styles and classes, which causes its own problems.

In terms of advice, mine is simple: repair only essential gear as you are leveling up. It saves you a ton of money and doesn't impact your game play much. Save spare pieces as you level up - remember that you won't be hurt much if you swap out some heavy for light, etc. Craft a new set every once in awhile. Invest in study gear (if you find it or can make it). Blue is more durable than green, which is more durable than white. Recycle - e.g. if you're a crafter, break down your old armor for parts.

Note also that you can typically buy things in the guild stores (or in chat) for cheaper than you can repair them. I'd wager that a call in /zone (need green medium armor pieces, level 34-36, paying 100 / piece, pst) will net you a full replacement set in minutes. It may not be fancy, but it will be cheaper than a full replacement set.

If you approach the game this way you'll have a lot more cash and will be a lot less frustrated.

RatsnevE · May 2014

What strikes me stupid about this whole repair business is that there is no repair skill. The PC can mine and refine and make her armor and weapons and he can gather herbs and capture souls to charge or enchant and boost her attributes but she _can't_ repair? She has to buy a repair kit or pay a fishmonger (really!) to accomplish a repair.

Zenimax needs to seriously add a repair skill. Who gives a rats ass if you end up with a horde of gold you can't spend on anything because you feed and take care of yourself and you make and repair your own outfit and you save the world?

Bhakura · May 2014

7 pages of complaining about repairs, one states its to costly (which it aint) another one complains its decaying even when not taking a hit and end up with a heavy armor tank in dungeons that has an AC value of a light armored caster in the back. Others complain there should be repair function for crafters and cry for repair skill.
...
Any of you even know theres repair kits? Or am i only one who saw those kits on day one of playing the game?
Repairing in this game is working perfectly learn to friggin adapt instead of moaning the moment something is different from the stuff you used to play.
Dont know about you, but im applauding zenimax for doing stuff differently and even have the audacity to ask monthly sub for it.
Go ahead and call me fanboy, personally im fed up with wow clones and wow brainwashed gamers that moan aloud the moment it aint fitting in wow way of thinking.

Awesometographer · May 2014

Bhakura wrote: »

7 pages of complaining about repairs, one states its to costly (which it aint) another one complains its decaying even when not taking a hit and end up with a heavy armor tank in dungeons that has an AC value of a light armored caster in the back. Others complain there should be repair function for crafters and cry for repair skill.
...
Any of you even know theres repair kits? Or am i only one who saw those kits on day one of playing the game?
Repairing in this game is working perfectly learn to friggin adapt instead of moaning the moment something is different from the stuff you used to play.
Dont know about you, but im applauding zenimax for doing stuff differently and even have the audacity to ask monthly sub for it.
Go ahead and call me fanboy, personally im fed up with wow clones and wow brainwashed gamers that moan aloud the moment it aint fitting in wow way of thinking.

I am in no way saying "this should be wow" I'm saying the system is broken.

So there are repair kits... I know this, I mentioned this... and stated that for tanks to remain 100% effective, they'd either have to use them, or port out for a repair before each boss... which refutes the "this is to combat tanks having higher bills" argument.

I tank, I accept higher repair bills, it's part of the job. But when I cannot tank because my armor's broken from the trash mobs up to the boss? that *** just doesn't work.

So the simple fact that there's repair kits fixes everything you say? It makes absolutely ZERO difference.

I quest and grind, my gear is down to zero, I can spend money on repairs from the vendor, or I can use a repair kit... still doesn't confront the issue... that the SYSTEM BEHIND DECAY is not ideal.

liquidhope · May 2014

i agree! repair costs are way too high and would like to see a price nerf

Laerian · May 2014

If the user prefer to change a piece of equipment for a new one from trash instead of repairing the "main" one confirm why the repair costs are broken.

Now the whole armor degradation mechanic is just hilarious. I just can't explain without offending anyone why some people are happy with their armors made of toilet paper; they defend a poorly designed mechanic that works in detriment of gameplay. Be happy.

This has nothing to do with making the game "harder" but annoying and making the equipment just another consumable; disposable.

Bhakura · May 2014

Awesometographer wrote: »

I am in no way saying "this should be wow" I'm saying the system is broken.

So there are repair kits... I know this, I mentioned this... and stated that for tanks to remain 100% effective, they'd either have to use them, or port out for a repair before each boss... which refutes the "this is to combat tanks having higher bills" argument.

I tank, I accept higher repair bills, it's part of the job. But when I cannot tank because my armor's broken from the trash mobs up to the boss? that *** just doesn't work.

So the simple fact that there's repair kits fixes everything you say? It makes absolutely ZERO difference.

I quest and grind, my gear is down to zero, I can spend money on repairs from the vendor, or I can use a repair kit... still doesn't confront the issue... that the SYSTEM BEHIND DECAY is not ideal.

I dont see the problem, lets be totally ludicrous for a moment and compare this to real life. You use a tool, and by time using it, it degrades from the quality you first got it from. Its only logical. Running around in weaponry and armor doing all kinds of stuff, it degrades, it aint new anymore and requires maintenance to uphold its effectiveness.
it isnt an argument for tanks having higher repair bills blabla, its how you circumvent this. Your in a team tanking and since you are tank you take more hits, youre armor degrades faster, its only natural.
So hows your attitude = repairing sucks for tanks.
Out comes ESO with a whole new idea of how repairing works or should work and introduces repair kits, well not introduce been done before, but they implement it, knowing full well how items degrade.
Im not saying a tank alone should cover for repair kits and the to your point of view "INSANE" item degradation, far from.
You are in team right? As far as i know MMO stands for multiplayer, so let your teammates contribute with repair kits, they have every reason to maintain the tanks strenght as they have their own.
So it is a different system then you are used to, it doesnt make it unplayable, all it takes is use whats been given to you and not only to you. You got problems with shot to *** armors halfway a dungeon, use a repair kit, cost to steep for you alone? AFAIK, youre not alone doing the dungeon, are you?

Ohioastro · May 2014

In MMOs you level up and replace your gear continually. I am much, much more sympathetic to cutting repair costs at level cap - but you really should be replacing the things that you're using throughout your leveling experience.

MMOs also have the problem that you can simply manufacture money by picking things up, which leads to runaway inflation without gold sinks. For the realism angle - notice that you pay nothing for food, shelter, clothing? That the items that you pick up are perfectly working and at 100%?

This isn't saying that the current system is perfect - it's saying that it is designed to serve an important, necessary, and unpopular game function - namely, keeping gold relevant - and it's also designed to explicitly create a market for crafters and as encouragement to make your own gear.

skarvika · May 2014

methjester wrote: »

XP gain = damage

I just wonder who the goofball was that thought it was a good idea to implement a form of punishment for playing the game.

Khandi wrote: »

While I agree that the reasoning behind it is probably to even it out, I still feel it is too costly. Maybe they should up the quest reward gold?

I would support this idea. The quest rewards should at the bare minimum cover the price of repairs.
During the leveling process, I feel like it's virtually useless to repair gear because you will be doing it so frequently that you will end up blowing a lot of gold just for armor you'll be done with in one level anyways. It's surprisingly cheaper to just craft your own gear over and over again, even if it requires buying all your components from the guild bank. I can buy 200 calcinium ingots, which makes perhaps 2 full sets of vr1-3 armor for the same price it would cost to repair my armor once.

Awesometographer · May 2014

Ohioastro wrote: »

In MMOs you level up and replace your gear continually. I am much, much more sympathetic to cutting repair costs at level cap - but you really should be replacing the things that you're using throughout your leveling experience.

Where am I getting all these replacements the four times I was fully broken between lvl 48 and 49?

zaria · May 2014

methjester wrote: »

txfeinbergsub17_ESO wrote: »

Armor repair prices are fine. I like that there is actually a penalty for playing badly. I currently have 10K in gold and have held steady there or slightly increased for the last 5 levels. Seems pretty balanced to me.

You do know armor degrades when you gain XP right? Death and damage have little bearing on taking armor damage. You can solve a puzzle quest with no combat, and your armor will take a hit. The system is flawed.

I can confirm that earning xp from delivering quests does not cause armor damage.
I repaired my gear and then cached in an series of quests taking me from halfway up 43 into 44 with zero repair cost.
I also know that dying from gray mobs who you don't get xp from also generate an serious repair bill.

zaria · May 2014

Xithian wrote: »

My guess is that they're avoiding the whole "tank gets stuck with massive repair bills, ranged point and laugh" scenario by evening the playing field with repair costs. While you may not like your gold bouncing back and forth like that, it's part of a balancing act. If repair costs are halved, then vendor prices for selling loot will be halved right along with it. To drastically drop gold out without dropping gold in will just kill the value of gold across the game.

Yes, that might be the explanation so if you are a sorcerer or nightblade grinding melee enemies without taking damage you still get an repair bill to balance for melee fighters.

However getting xp from quests or exploring don't cause damage and dying does cause damage. As other say its part of balancing the game.

Awesometographer · May 2014

zaria wrote: »

Xithian wrote: »

My guess is that they're avoiding the whole "tank gets stuck with massive repair bills, ranged point and laugh" scenario by evening the playing field with repair costs. While you may not like your gold bouncing back and forth like that, it's part of a balancing act. If repair costs are halved, then vendor prices for selling loot will be halved right along with it. To drastically drop gold out without dropping gold in will just kill the value of gold across the game.

Yes, that might be the explanation so if you are a sorcerer or nightblade grinding melee enemies without taking damage you still get an repair bill to balance for melee fighters.

Which most of us are fine with.

Just please, sweet, buttery Jesus, let it take more than 20-30 minutes!

(Last night, leveling from 48.5-50, I repaired 4 times in 90 minutes.

RatsnevE · May 2014

"What strikes me stupid about this whole repair business is that there is no repair skill. The PC can mine and refine and make her armor and weapons and he can gather herbs and capture souls to charge or enchant and boost her attributes but she _can't_ repair? She has to buy a repair kit or pay a fishmonger (really!) to accomplish a repair.

Zenimax needs to seriously add a repair skill. Who gives a rats ass if you end up with a horde of gold you can't spend on anything because you feed and take care of yourself and you make and repair your own outfit and you save the world?"

The existing repair kits work fine...I've used them...I know they exist...and they are cheaper generally then getting the fish monger to repair gear especially if used when gear is at or close to zero. Repair kits aren't available from every weapon/armor/clothing type vendor though and after gear goes over level 10 the kits cost a whole lot more.

I just think that with all the skills ESO offers skipping a repair skill wasn't logical...just like skipping swimming and fighting and exploring caves underwater is a shame to miss out on too.

sarnox · May 2014

Posted early on in this thread, while I was still leveling.
I noticed fairly on that your armor degraded based on xp gains from mobs, only way to counter this is to play naked - that is from lvl 5 to 50 fully naked.

Around when I did 39-45 in a few hours I put on gear to see if it would speed up killing process, and gear would drop to 0% almost instantly without dying. Replacing the gear with new loot found, would just help for 5-10min or so anyways and since broken gear sells for less (might also give less when deconstructed) pointless to swap.

Gold is not an issue, nor really is gear necessary in this game for leveling until vet levels.

As many have pointed out the primary issue is that armor rating goes down with broken gear. Additionally armor passives don't work once your gear is at 0%. Which means that if you're vet5 and have a good group going, getting good exp and enjoying yourselves in a dungeon or dark anchor runs, then you constantly have to interrupt the run to go repair. It's very frustrating to either have to wait or keep your party waiting over and over.

The only answer is to keep repair kits with you to avoid having to go back and forth; to cover the costs you'll have to pick up more loot, which is already limited by the inventory issues. This is why the mailing system keeps having to undergo maintenance, because people like myself and others that have undergone this process are spamming each other with mails with loot and returning them.

Happy Mailing.

Khizank · May 2014

I get penalized, having high repair bills as a tank. My friends playing ranged/caster got almost none. As we don't die, and I am a somewhat 'good' tank, I have the highest repair bill of all. It makes sense, but I do not get anything else for it to make up that disadvantage.

Has anyone else the feeling, that repairing is 'cheaper' if you repair with only small depletion, but more often, than once when it is almost broken?

What I don't get is, that I cannot repair my self-made gear using a few Ingots. I can craft the coolest armors, but I am not able to repair it?