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Bank size discussion thread
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A few facts to consider...
People that play elder scrolls tend to like picking things up.
Elder scrolls games have lots of things to pick up, and housing has always been available for storage
This is elder scrolls, lots of ES fans are here because of the franchise.
This game has severely limited inventory management options, upgrading is cripplingly expensive, and the time required to manage lots of stuff is tremendous.
I started with 3 friends that have all since cancelled their subscriptions in favor of games that do not require multiple hours to manage inventories. This is money Zenimax is loosing.
If enough people do this, goodbye game - I am close to doing the same. This is just a simple fact, I have 300 unplayed steam games, and very limited time. I like this game, but to be forced to save for a week just to store a few more slices of bread, mushrooms, pairs of shoes, etc... Nope. Just nope. There are more, less frustrating options out there. As good as this game is so far, it's just not worth the frustration for most people. In a highly competitive market, this will kill the game.
The design choices of such a limited number of gold sinks, followed by the crippling cost of the overweighted inventory upgrade cost is a terrible reason for this game to fail. It needs to change. It needs to change soon.
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Allyah✭✭✭Maverick827 wrote: »
"People changing the game to suit their own needs instead of playing it how it was designed" is literally the singar thing that has kept the Elder Scrolls franchise relevant for the past decade and a half.If you spent years making a game, I don't think you'd appreciate the people changing the game for everyone to suit their own needs instead of playing it how it was designed.
I'd agree with you... if they didn't say gold buying was against the rules. And if this wasn't a game with a very large amount of people.0 -
Brennan✭✭✭Maverick827 wrote: »I'm "horrible" for not condemning people for buying gold in a video game? Let's dial back a bit on the sanctimonious rhetoric there, McCarthy.
Are you now or have you ever been a gold-buyer?
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Maverick827✭✭✭✭✭
✭I've never purchased gold, I just have a sympathetic view for those who do in this particular game to counter the crippling gold sinks that are tied to key functions like bank space and respecs.
I knew people who bought gold in WoW to buy that 10k mammoth mount, and I thought that was dumb (though, again, at least that's not gold going back into the economy).0 -
Brennan✭✭✭Maverick827 wrote: »I've never purchased gold, I just have a sympathetic view for those who do in this particular game to counter the crippling gold sinks that are tied to key functions like bank space and respecs.
I knew people who bought gold in WoW to buy that 10k mammoth mount, and I thought that was dumb (though, again, at least that's not gold going back into the economy).
So you, yourself, are not a gold-buyer but are a gold-buyer sympathizer?
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Evanis✭✭✭danreckerpreub18_ESO wrote: »I like this game, but to be forced to save for a week just to store a few more slices of bread, mushrooms, pairs of shoes, etc... Nope. Just nope. There are more, less frustrating options out there. As good as this game is so far, it's just not worth the frustration for most people. In a highly competitive market, this will kill the game.
This sum up my feelings on the issue as well. The game needs a separate bank tab for commodities. I find it downright silly for anyone to be against having such a thing. If you are an RPer or prefer to micromanage everything you collect, then just don't utilize it.1 -
Brennan✭✭✭danreckerpreub18_ESO wrote: »I like this game, but to be forced to save for a week just to store a few more slices of bread, mushrooms, pairs of shoes, etc... Nope. Just nope. There are more, less frustrating options out there. As good as this game is so far, it's just not worth the frustration for most people. In a highly competitive market, this will kill the game.
This sum up my feelings on the issue as well. The game needs a separate bank tab for commodities. I find it downright silly for anyone to be against having such a thing. If you are an RPer or prefer to micromanage everything you collect, then just don't utilize it.
ESO is dying. LOL
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RangerChad wrote: »It's fine, just get the upgrades. Gives you something to work for.
Currently, the most expensive thing in the entire game is storage space. There is simply no single upgrade that is higher in cost. I do not wish to save for a week or more to buy inventory space when I already do not have enough storage for provisioning alone, much less my other character's professions.
As it stands, Endgame is bankspace. Just how silly this is cannot be overstated. I have ~130 bank slots and ~140 backpack spaces, and approximately 20 of those are from my horse. Why can I carry more with me then I can store in my bank? Why, when I create a second character, is my bank space effectively cut in half?
All this does is create artificial friction between what you want to do with your character, and how much you can store to support them. Call me crazy, but I want challenge in the form of group content, boss fights, PVP. Give me group dungeons, give me more puzzle quests, give me rare crafting ingredients to hunt down.
The biggest challenge in this game SHOULD NOT be how best to cram a pair of shoes in *&@^#$ shoebox.
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Brennan✭✭✭danreckerpreub18_ESO wrote: »RangerChad wrote: »It's fine, just get the upgrades. Gives you something to work for.
Currently, the most expensive thing in the entire game is storage space. There is simply no single upgrade that is higher in cost. I do not wish to save for a week or more to buy inventory space when I already do not have enough storage for provisioning alone, much less my other character's professions.
As it stands, Endgame is bankspace. Just how silly this is cannot be overstated. I have ~130 bank slots and ~140 backpack spaces, and approximately 20 of those are from my horse. Why can I carry more with me then I can store in my bank? Why, when I create a second character, is my bank space effectively cut in half?
All this does is create artificial friction between what you want to do with your character, and how much you can store to support them. Call me crazy, but I want challenge in the form of group content, boss fights, PVP. Give me group dungeons, give me more puzzle quests, give me rare crafting ingredients to hunt down.
The biggest challenge in this game SHOULD NOT be how best to cram a pair of shoes in *&@^#$ shoebox.
"I do not wish to save for a week or more to buy inventory space:
Then don't.
"All this does is create artificial friction between what you want to do with your character, and how much you can store to support them."
There is nothing artificial about it. It is very real. It is also intended.
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Allyah✭✭✭Maverick827 wrote: »
Then the alternative is to quit, which isn't good for anyone.Then don't.
Except for people who are tired of hearing whining, of course.Edited by Allyah on May 6, 2014 5:06PM1 -
Brennan✭✭✭Maverick827 wrote: »
Then the alternative is to quit, which isn't good for anyone.Then don't.
You are mistaken. The alternative is to show some restraint in what crap you're holding onto or quit.
ED: Or continue to impotently rage on the forum about bag space.
Edited by Brennan on May 6, 2014 5:10PM1 -
"I do not wish to save for a week or more to buy inventory space:
Then don't.
"All this does is create artificial friction between what you want to do with your character, and how much you can store to support them."
There is nothing artificial about it. It is very real. It is also intended.
So, are you happy with the current system? If so, good for you. Elder Scrolls games attract a certain demograph of gamers. If you are not someone who likes collecting and using things, also good for you.
Yes, I see that a certain amount of this was intended, but no developer will intentionally design a system that forces people into boring, non addictive repetitive tasks that aren't also at least somewhat enjoyable. Given that I do not wish to play a manual sorting algorithm, nor am I willing to simply dump what I have already earned in the name of "Friction", i will be quitting long, long before I have finished my first character.
This is money lost by Zenimax. No, the loss of my single subscription will not impact them, but the loss of a significant portion will. Allowing a game to die for something that is so easily fixed is just bad business.
I could be wrong, the game may survive, and even thrive as it currently exists. I, personally, cannot see this being the case. Gamers are not typically individuals that enjoy being forced to dump huge amounts of loot simply because they cannot store it. More likely, they will simply move on to a game with a less frustrating system.
Edited by danreckerpreub18_ESO on May 6, 2014 5:27PM2 -
Maverick827✭✭✭✭✭
✭The poor inventory system compounds on so many other game functions. It just keeps piling onto a large heap of frustration. Here's a victim of the inventory system + the console UI:
http://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/24tkom/goddammit/0 -
Brennan✭✭✭danreckerpreub18_ESO wrote: »
"I do not wish to save for a week or more to buy inventory space:
Then don't.
"All this does is create artificial friction between what you want to do with your character, and how much you can store to support them."
There is nothing artificial about it. It is very real. It is also intended.
So, are you happy with the current system? If so, good for you. Elder Scrolls games attract a certain demograph of gamers. If you are not someone who likes collecting and using things, also good for you.
Yes, I see that a certain amount of this was intended, but no developer will intentionally design a system that forces people into boring, non addictive repetitive tasks that aren't also at least somewhat enjoyable. Given that I do not wish to play a manual sorting algorithm, nor am I willing to simply dump what I have already earned in the name of "Friction", i will be quitting long, long before I have finished my first character.
This is money lost by Zenimax. No, the loss of my single subscription will not impact them, but the loss of a significant portion will. Allowing a game to die for something that is so easily fixed is just bad business.
I could be wrong, the game may survive, and even thrive as it currently exists. I, personally, cannot see this being the case. Gamers are not typically individuals that enjoy being forced to dump huge amounts of loot simply because they cannot store it. More likely, they will simply move on to a game with a less frustrating system.
So can I have your stuff? I have plenty of room for it with the existing inventory system.
Also, ESO is dying. LOL.
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So can I have your stuff? I have plenty of room for it with the existing inventory system.
Also, ESO is dying. LOL.
You may have a sandwhich, perhaps even two. Mind the iron bar, I had to get creative with my storage.
Tuesday is coming, did you bring your coat? LOL
(I can make random, inane, nonsensical statements followed by "LOL" too!)0 -
Brennan✭✭✭danreckerpreub18_ESO wrote: »
So can I have your stuff? I have plenty of room for it with the existing inventory system.
Also, ESO is dying. LOL.
You may have a sandwhich, perhaps even two. Mind the iron bar, I had to get creative with my storage.
Tuesday is coming, did you bring your coat? LOL
(I can make random, inane, nonsensical statements followed by "LOL" too!)
At any rate Recker, good luck in whatever game you choose to play after you quit ESO.
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danreckerpreub18_ESO wrote: »
So can I have your stuff? I have plenty of room for it with the existing inventory system.
Also, ESO is dying. LOL.
You may have a sandwhich, perhaps even two. Mind the iron bar, I had to get creative with my storage.
Tuesday is coming, did you bring your coat? LOL
(I can make random, inane, nonsensical statements followed by "LOL" too!)
At any rate Recker, good luck in whatever game you choose to play after you quit ESO.
Thanks! All joking aside, I intend to stick around for a few months yet. The reduction in mail cost / Guild store fees is at least indicative of the fact that they are listening to the player base. My only real complaint about the current gold sink system is how heavily weighted global gold sinks are in Inventory / Bank space upgrades. I would gleefully save up half a million gold for house, and a guildhouse could cost a million or so. Those would be real goals. For a healthy in-game economy to thrive, currency needs to flow out of the economy at a rate at least comparable to the creation of more.
Allowing players to bypass repair costs at lower levels is another issue that could be addressed. I typically trash my gear, or throw on whatever is around in favor of repairing aging, broken gear.
I would even be fine with storage cost upgrades remaining as they are, provided characters were each given their own bank, in addition to the current shared one. An additional 30 slots per character for personal storage would go a long way. I am enjoying the game. I love MMO gaming in general - My druid in Everquest had 7 years /played. I have never quit a MMO due to frustration with bugs and game mechanics, I don't want this to be the first.
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Brennan✭✭✭danreckerpreub18_ESO wrote: »danreckerpreub18_ESO wrote: »
So can I have your stuff? I have plenty of room for it with the existing inventory system.
Also, ESO is dying. LOL.
You may have a sandwhich, perhaps even two. Mind the iron bar, I had to get creative with my storage.
Tuesday is coming, did you bring your coat? LOL
(I can make random, inane, nonsensical statements followed by "LOL" too!)
At any rate Recker, good luck in whatever game you choose to play after you quit ESO.
Thanks! All joking aside, I intend to stick around for a few months yet. The reduction in mail cost / Guild store fees is at least indicative of the fact that they are listening to the player base. My only real complaint about the current gold sink system is how heavily weighted global gold sinks are in Inventory / Bank space upgrades. I would gleefully save up half a million gold for house, and a guildhouse could cost a million or so. Those would be real goals. For a healthy in-game economy to thrive, currency needs to flow out of the economy at a rate at least comparable to the creation of more.
Allowing players to bypass repair costs at lower levels is another issue that could be addressed. I typically trash my gear, or throw on whatever is around in favor of repairing aging, broken gear.
I would even be fine with storage cost upgrades remaining as they are, provided characters were each given their own bank, in addition to the current shared one. An additional 30 slots per character for personal storage would go a long way. I am enjoying the game. I love MMO gaming in general - My druid in Everquest had 7 years /played. I have never quit a MMO due to frustration with bugs and game mechanics, I don't want this to be the first.
Shared bank in EQ was 2 slots. Sure you could put bags in there to get. what?, maybe 20 more or so. How were you able to adapt to that but not to this (with 60 slots from day 1)?
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Shared bank in EQ was 2 slots. Sure you could put bags in there to get. what?, maybe 20 more or so. How were you able to adapt to that but not to this (with 60 slots from day 1)?
This is true, although I said Everquest, the original Everquest. When it launched, there was absolutely no shared bank of any kind, and you started with 8 slots total. A backpack could be placed in each of those slots, but getting more then 20 total storage spaces took days. I had no problem with it at the time.
How was I able to cope with this? Less items.
The amount of items in Everquest when Planes of Power launched was approximately 30,000, and it took years to build up to that. At launch, it was barely a fraction of that. (I'm fairly sure these are accurate numbers, I have the info on another PC, I'll find out for certain if you like.) In EQ1, the subset of of useful items compared to vendor trash... well, most of it was just vendor trash. You had to dump things occasionally, even frequently... but it wasnt an unending torrent of things you know you will need, and are forced to pass up.
In ESO, right now - there are over 60,000 possible items. It rains loot from the sky... and all of it is potentially useful, save for the very small percentage of items that are actually vendor trash. All weapons and armor are destructible. Every last piece. Deconstructing an item is like smashing a loot pinata, items multiply like fibonacci khajiit on fertility meds, and the trait gems for armor and weapons are separate.
There are simply too many useful items that sell for 0, and still cost gold from vendors when you need them. I could deal with 30 total slots in a personal bank for any profession other then Provisioning (Which is my primary) ... Even enchanting would be workable at lower levels, due to the limited number of rune types you find in lower level zones.
The same is true of blacksmithing, leatherworking, and woodworking... there's just 1-2 types of each material at low levels, and the trait / racial gems stack well... it can be managed. Trying to play multiple characters without flooding the current shared bank completely is simply painful. Managing even one craft on more then 3 separate characters is just unworkable, if you are attempting one of the more inventory intensive trades.
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Brennan✭✭✭danreckerpreub18_ESO wrote: »
Shared bank in EQ was 2 slots. Sure you could put bags in there to get. what?, maybe 20 more or so. How were you able to adapt to that but not to this (with 60 slots from day 1)?
This is true, although I said Everquest, the original Everquest. When it launched, there was absolutely no shared bank of any kind, and you started with 8 slots total. A backpack could be placed in each of those slots, but getting more then 20 total storage spaces took days. I had no problem with it at the time.
How was I able to cope with this? Less items.
The amount of items in Everquest when Planes of Power launched was approximately 30,000, and it took years to build up to that. At launch, it was barely a fraction of that. (I'm fairly sure these are accurate numbers, I have the info on another PC, I'll find out for certain if you like.) In EQ1, the subset of of useful items compared to vendor trash... well, most of it was just vendor trash. You had to dump things occasionally, even frequently... but it wasnt an unending torrent of things you know you will need, and are forced to pass up.
In ESO, right now - there are over 60,000 possible items. It rains loot from the sky... and all of it is potentially useful, save for the very small percentage of items that are actually vendor trash. All weapons and armor are destructible. Every last piece. Deconstructing an item is like smashing a loot pinata, items multiply like fibonacci khajiit on fertility meds, and the trait gems for armor and weapons are separate.
There are simply too many useful items that sell for 0, and still cost gold from vendors when you need them. I could deal with 30 total slots in a personal bank for any profession other then Provisioning (Which is my primary) ... Even enchanting would be workable at lower levels, due to the limited number of rune types you find in lower level zones.
The same is true of blacksmithing, leatherworking, and woodworking... there's just 1-2 types of each material at low levels, and the trait / racial gems stack well... it can be managed. Trying to play multiple characters without flooding the current shared bank completely is simply painful. Managing even one craft on more then 3 separate characters is just unworkable, if you are attempting one of the more inventory intensive trades.
So the problem isn't bank space. It's that there's too much loot?
I never see threads about too much loot. Weird.
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Evanis✭✭✭danreckerpreub18_ESO wrote: »Deconstructing an item is like smashing a loot pinata, items multiply like fibonacci khajiit on fertility meds, and the trait gems for armor and weapons are separate.
As a mathematical ecologist, I found this to be uproarious! But seriously, I agree with your point. To a very large extent, the loot from this game is actually quite useful when one considers that every weapon and armor piece is deconstructable. I now leave behind loot that does not have an immediate use, but may be perfectly good for deconstucting, due to bank/bank limitations. Throw in the fact that there is virtually no economy in ESO to speak of, this is not an optimized/balanced system at all.0 -
So the problem isn't bank space. It's that there's too much loot?
I never see threads about too much loot. Weird.
An amusing oversimplification of a deliberate misunderstanding of my point, but sure, let's address this.
Deliberately handing a player a tremendous pile of loot, say... 200 items, then telling them they can keep 10? In this example, the player has already earned all 200 items, which represent a wide sampling of 60,000 items they may need in the future... and they can keep 10? When I earn something, I want to keep it. A system that forces you to do otherwise to this degree is inherently flawed. I'm not saying they need to fix this RIGHT NOW, i'm saying they should change the system slightly to allow players to cope with the overflow to a certain degree while fine tuning occurs. Did you know that originally, accounts only had 3 character slots? They increased this due to player demand, great. They did not, however, increase the overall amount of available slots following this change. This amount of shared-bank storage was intended for 3 characters, not 8.
When I see an awesome item in an MMO, perhaps being used by another player, or boss, etc... I want to think, "I can't wait until I can earn that!" rather then the current system, which simply hands you a random pile of stuff that is apparently intended to make you think, "I can't wait until I can store all this stuff!"
When did such a system ever become a good idea?
Also, if you havent seen threads about too much loot, you apparently don't browse the forums much. Huge crowds of boss farmers have been the primary topic i've read about for the last week or so.Edited by danreckerpreub18_ESO on May 6, 2014 7:46PM0 -
Brennan✭✭✭danreckerpreub18_ESO wrote: »
So the problem isn't bank space. It's that there's too much loot?
I never see threads about too much loot. Weird.
An amusing oversimplification of a deliberate misunderstanding of my point, but sure, let's address this.
Deliberately handing a player a tremendous pile of loot, say... 200 items, then telling them they can keep 10? In this example, the player has already earned all 200 items, which represent a wide sampling of 60,000 items they may need in the future... and they can keep 10? When I earn something, I want to keep it. A system that forces you to do otherwise to this degree is inherently flawed.
When I see an awesome item in an MMO, perhaps being used by another player, or boss, etc... I want to think, "I can't wait until I can earn that!" rather then the current system, which simply hands you a random pile of stuff that is apparently intended to make you think, "I can't wait until I can store all this stuff!"
When did such a system ever become a good idea?
Also, if you havent seen threads about too much loot, you apparently don't browse the forums much. Huge crowds of boss farmers have been the primary topic i've read about for the last week or so.
What 200 items do you need to keep that can't be sold, deconstructed, researched, or used for crafting? Face it man - you're hoarding stuff. Why?
I don't see people complain that they have too much loot. I see people complaining in thread after thread after thread about not being able to store the loot. That and thread after thread after thread about the absence of a global, serverwide Auction House.
If you want to keep what you earn, then keep it but have enough intelligence to recognize that you don't have and never will have 60,000 slots for all that crap. Maybe take steps to mitigate the strain on your inventory rather than trying to convince everyone that the design of the game should bend to your will.
Some of us are doing all 6 professions. /raiseshand
Some of us are doing all 6 on a single character. /raiseshand
Some of us are not having an issue with the inventory. At least not to the extent that we feel compelled to rage about it on a game forum. /raiseshand
So how is it that I can manage this without the incessant raging and you are not?
I am really interested in knowing why I can manage this and others can not.
Seriously, help me to understand why this is just an insurmountable endeavor for you.1 -
Maverick827✭✭✭✭✭
✭Why are you against more easily accessible bank space? How does it hurt you?Edited by Maverick827 on May 6, 2014 7:59PM0 -
Brennan✭✭✭Maverick827 wrote: »Because you're lying or exaggerating.
It is just inconceivable to you that many people, the people who are just fine with the inventory, are able to adapt to it.
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Brennan✭✭✭Maverick827 wrote: »Why are you against more easily accessible bank space? How does it hurt you?
It doesn't hurt me either way. I am an intelligent human being capable of adapting and evolving.
It's not broke so my question is why bother "fixing" it?Edited by Brennan on May 6, 2014 8:55PM0