Bank size discussion thread
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OzzyNOR✭✭Just ignore Allyah, he's in plenty of threads where people have legitimate concerns and problems with the game saying pretty much; "oh, but it's never a problem for me, because <insert ridiculous parameters and excuses>, so you must suck". There's plenty of these people on this forum, and I hope Zenimax will never listen to them as ESO would never improve that way. This game needs a lot of work...0 -
Allyah✭✭✭@Cats525
Sorry, should have wrote concisely. Perhaps then you wouldn't have given me a post that read like a rant.
@OzzyNORJust ignore Allyah, he's in plenty of threads where people have legitimate concerns and problems with the game saying pretty much; "oh, but it's never a problem for me, because <insert ridiculous parameters and excuses>, so you must suck". There's plenty of these people on this forum, and I hope Zenimax will never listen to them as ESO would never improve that way. This game needs a lot of work...
Sorry, I live by the standard, if one person does it, it is possible for someone else to do it, too. There's many people who don't have an issue using the system in place. Therefore, you must be doing something wrong. If you have actually logic that tells me why this isn't so, I'm more than willing to listen.The bank spaces and inventory aren't too small. If you are trying to level all types of crafting at once, you are going to run into some issues that have nothing to do with how the game is set up and everything to do with how you are managing your resources.This is where I'm saying you're doing it wrong.
Should they lower the price of inventory and bank slots? No. It is a gold sink and it is there so that your items don't rapidly become useless because everyone and their mother is able to craft everything all at once.This is where I explain why the system that is in place is there.
If it comes to it, use the system that is already in place to help you out instead of trying to change something that has just been created. Make some mules and store your crap on them. Better yet, pretend your character is a real person who couldn't possibly know 6 different trade skills and choose a couple to start edit: if you're having trouble.
This game does need a lot of work but this is not a necessity that needs to be fixed. This is people not wanting to work with what they already have.1 -
OzzyNOR✭✭@Cats525
Sorry, should have wrote concisely. Perhaps then you wouldn't have given me a post that read like a rant.
@OzzyNORJust ignore Allyah, he's in plenty of threads where people have legitimate concerns and problems with the game saying pretty much; "oh, but it's never a problem for me, because <insert ridiculous parameters and excuses>, so you must suck". There's plenty of these people on this forum, and I hope Zenimax will never listen to them as ESO would never improve that way. This game needs a lot of work...
Sorry, I live by the standard, if one person does it, it is possible for someone else to do it, too. There's many people who don't have an issue using the system in place. Therefore, you must be doing something wrong. If you have actually logic that tells me why this isn't so, I'm more than willing to listen.The bank spaces and inventory aren't too small. If you are trying to level all types of crafting at once, you are going to run into some issues that have nothing to do with how the game is set up and everything to do with how you are managing your resources.This is where I'm saying you're doing it wrong.
Should they lower the price of inventory and bank slots? No. It is a gold sink and it is there so that your items don't rapidly become useless because everyone and their mother is able to craft everything all at once.This is where I explain why the system that is in place is there.
If it comes to it, use the system that is already in place to help you out instead of trying to change something that has just been created. Make some mules and store your crap on them. Better yet, pretend your character is a real person who couldn't possibly know 6 different trade skills and choose a couple to start edit: if you're having trouble.
This game does need a lot of work but this is not a necessity that needs to be fixed. This is people not wanting to work with what they already have.
I hate repeating myself, but; "oh, but it's never a problem for me, because <insert ridiculous parameters and excuses>, so you must suck". Severely limited bank slots as means to "limit" crafting in a game with shiteloads of different crafting materials, and then add expensive bank slot upgrades as a money sink is just bad game design, and leads to the "bank-alt-shuffle" and other frustrating timesinks. There's so many other ways they could have dealt with this, and there's a lot of MMO's that have done this way better in the past. You can repeat "oh, but you don't have to use alts as banks, just sell all your materials, limit yourself yadayada", but it seems to me that you don't really understand what many, probably most MMO'ers do in situations like these. Neither does Zenimax for that matter.
Edit: This is a great way to encourage players to buy gold from gold-sellers. I truly hope that is not happening in this game though.Edited by OzzyNOR on May 4, 2014 6:45PM0 -
Allyah✭✭✭@Cats525
Sorry, should have wrote concisely. Perhaps then you wouldn't have given me a post that read like a rant.
@OzzyNORJust ignore Allyah, he's in plenty of threads where people have legitimate concerns and problems with the game saying pretty much; "oh, but it's never a problem for me, because <insert ridiculous parameters and excuses>, so you must suck". There's plenty of these people on this forum, and I hope Zenimax will never listen to them as ESO would never improve that way. This game needs a lot of work...
Sorry, I live by the standard, if one person does it, it is possible for someone else to do it, too. There's many people who don't have an issue using the system in place. Therefore, you must be doing something wrong. If you have actually logic that tells me why this isn't so, I'm more than willing to listen.The bank spaces and inventory aren't too small. If you are trying to level all types of crafting at once, you are going to run into some issues that have nothing to do with how the game is set up and everything to do with how you are managing your resources.This is where I'm saying you're doing it wrong.
Should they lower the price of inventory and bank slots? No. It is a gold sink and it is there so that your items don't rapidly become useless because everyone and their mother is able to craft everything all at once.This is where I explain why the system that is in place is there.
If it comes to it, use the system that is already in place to help you out instead of trying to change something that has just been created. Make some mules and store your crap on them. Better yet, pretend your character is a real person who couldn't possibly know 6 different trade skills and choose a couple to start edit: if you're having trouble.
This game does need a lot of work but this is not a necessity that needs to be fixed. This is people not wanting to work with what they already have.
I hate repeating myself, but; "oh, but it's never a problem for me, because <insert ridiculous parameters and excuses>, so you must suck". Severely limited bank slots as means to "limit" crafting in a game with shiteloads of different crafting materials, and then add expensive bank slot upgrades as a money sink is just bad game design, and leads to the "bank-alt-shuffle" and other frustrating timesinks. There's so many other ways they could have dealt with this, and there's a lot of MMO's that have done this way better in the past. You can repeat "oh, but you don't have to use alts as banks, just sell all your materials, limit yourself yadayada", but it seems to me that you don't really understand what many, probably most MMO'ers do in situations like these. Neither does Zenimax for that matter.
Edit: This is a great way to encourage players to buy gold from gold-sellers. I truly hope that is not happening in this game though.
There was no need to repeat yourself. I already gave you a logical reason why I say that (as rude as it sounds). Some people are able to do it without creating alts. Why can't you? We're never going to agree that this point is bad game design. I can understand why you don't like it but that doesn't mean it's bad game design. It's just different that what you feel is most effective.
If you prefer a lack of timesinks and you feel other MMO's have done it better, play them instead. I'm sure people are as tired of hearing that as I am tired of saying it, but you are trying to fix something that isn't broken. It doesn't match your preferences and so you want it changed. If it was something that actually halted your progress in any way, I would be more than willing to step aside and let you continue arguing that changing it is the right thing to do. But it doesn't.
If people are going to buy gold, they are going to buy gold. No matter what it is for. I, too, hope gold sellers and buyers are eliminated from this game as much and as soon as possible.0 -
Brennan✭✭✭@Cats525
Sorry, should have wrote concisely. Perhaps then you wouldn't have given me a post that read like a rant.
@OzzyNORJust ignore Allyah, he's in plenty of threads where people have legitimate concerns and problems with the game saying pretty much; "oh, but it's never a problem for me, because <insert ridiculous parameters and excuses>, so you must suck". There's plenty of these people on this forum, and I hope Zenimax will never listen to them as ESO would never improve that way. This game needs a lot of work...
Sorry, I live by the standard, if one person does it, it is possible for someone else to do it, too. There's many people who don't have an issue using the system in place. Therefore, you must be doing something wrong. If you have actually logic that tells me why this isn't so, I'm more than willing to listen.The bank spaces and inventory aren't too small. If you are trying to level all types of crafting at once, you are going to run into some issues that have nothing to do with how the game is set up and everything to do with how you are managing your resources.This is where I'm saying you're doing it wrong.
Should they lower the price of inventory and bank slots? No. It is a gold sink and it is there so that your items don't rapidly become useless because everyone and their mother is able to craft everything all at once.This is where I explain why the system that is in place is there.
If it comes to it, use the system that is already in place to help you out instead of trying to change something that has just been created. Make some mules and store your crap on them. Better yet, pretend your character is a real person who couldn't possibly know 6 different trade skills and choose a couple to start edit: if you're having trouble.
This game does need a lot of work but this is not a necessity that needs to be fixed. This is people not wanting to work with what they already have.
I hate repeating myself, but; "oh, but it's never a problem for me, because <insert ridiculous parameters and excuses>, so you must suck". Severely limited bank slots as means to "limit" crafting in a game with shiteloads of different crafting materials, and then add expensive bank slot upgrades as a money sink is just bad game design, and leads to the "bank-alt-shuffle" and other frustrating timesinks. There's so many other ways they could have dealt with this, and there's a lot of MMO's that have done this way better in the past. You can repeat "oh, but you don't have to use alts as banks, just sell all your materials, limit yourself yadayada", but it seems to me that you don't really understand what many, probably most MMO'ers do in situations like these. Neither does Zenimax for that matter.
Edit: This is a great way to encourage players to buy gold from gold-sellers. I truly hope that is not happening in this game though.
What exactly do many, probably most MMO'ers do in situations like these? Whine on forums?
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Cats525✭✭
You wanted more clarity and I gave it to you, it doesn't surprise me that you're not addressing it now.Sorry, should have wrote concisely. Perhaps then you wouldn't have given me a post that read like a rant.
Ha this is rich.... you want logic? Here it is. By that statement if any none class skill-line was way overpowered, there'd be no reason to balance it out because, hey, everyone can learn it! And that's just one of the most basic examples why that's downright nonsense. I could give you alot more examples of why such generalisation is always wrong even up to uncomfortable ones like how by that statement it would make no sense making software that helps blind people use a pc, because the next person who can see doesn't need it either. I don't know where you live, but if all people there live by that "standard", it must be a horrible place. In any way I'm glad you're a logical person.Sorry, I live by the standard, if one person does it, it is possible for someone else to do it, too. There's many people who don't have an issue using the system in place. Therefore, you must be doing something wrong. If you have actually logic that tells me why this isn't so, I'm more than willing to listen.
But to get down to the simple matter of a computer game again, well guess what, there's actually more than one way to do things, and elder scrolls is advertising and partly delivering just that. You're not limited to wearing cloth armor to be a mage, you're not limited to only be able to raise one, two or even three crafting skills with one character. You're probably asking yourself why they did that, since by your standard, when people could play with those restrictions in other games, there's no reason to lift them. But then again it makes any progress unnecessary, why have electricity, people have proven they can live without it! This game is supposed to overcome the restrictions of other games, why take two steps back here?
What people are asking for here is a simple change that would take next to no time to implement, would have no negative impact on the game and would allow them to overcome a ridiculous restriction that this game puts on their playstyle that all those other games with their restricted class and crafter choices do not put on them!
All you've given in this thread are rash words, wrong statements and half baked excuses, I'm still waiting for you to make even half a valid argument. Oh by the way, you may have read some people saying they can't play their alts because their inventory is full? Think that could halt someone's progress in any way?I already gave you a logical reason why I say that (as rude as it sounds). Some people are able to do it without creating alts. Why can't you? We're never going to agree that this point is bad game design. I can understand why you don't like it but that doesn't mean it's bad game design. It's just different that what you feel is most effective.
If you prefer a lack of timesinks and you feel other MMO's have done it better, play them instead. I'm sure people are as tired of hearing that as I am tired of saying it, but you are trying to fix something that isn't broken. It doesn't match your preferences and so you want it changed. If it was something that actually halted your progress in any way, I would be more than willing to step aside and let you continue arguing that changing it is the right thing to do. But it doesn't.
If people are going to buy gold, they are going to buy gold. No matter what it is for. I, too, hope gold sellers and buyers are eliminated from this game as much and as soon as possible.
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Allyah✭✭✭
Faulty logic on your part. I was talking about a certain system. You are talking about a completely different system that is a problem for everyone.
You wanted more clarity and I gave it to you, it doesn't surprise me that you're not addressing it now.Sorry, should have wrote concisely. Perhaps then you wouldn't have given me a post that read like a rant.
Ha this is rich.... you want logic? Here it is. By that statement if any none class skill-line was way overpowered, there'd be no reason to balance it out because, hey, everyone can learn it! And that's just one of the most basic examples why that's downright nonsense.Sorry, I live by the standard, if one person does it, it is possible for someone else to do it, too. There's many people who don't have an issue using the system in place. Therefore, you must be doing something wrong. If you have actually logic that tells me why this isn't so, I'm more than willing to listen.
I don't recall writing there isn't more than one way to do things. I simply stated that the system in place for this game already works and it works how it is intended.I could give you alot more examples of why such generalisation is always wrong even up to uncomfortable ones like how by that statement it would make no sense making software that helps blind people use a pc, because the next person who can see doesn't need it either. I don't know where you live, but if all people there live by that "standard", it must be a horrible place. In any way I'm glad you're a logical person.
But to get down to the simple matter of a computer game again, well guess what, there's actually more than one way to do things, and elder scrolls is advertising and partly delivering just that. You're not limited to wearing cloth armor to be a mage, you're not limited to only be able to raise one, two or even three crafting skills with one character. You're probably asking yourself why they did that, since by your standard, when people could play with those restrictions in other games, there's no reason to lift them. But then again it makes any progress unnecessary, why have electricity, people have proven they can live without it! This game is supposed to overcome the restrictions of other games, why take two steps back here?
Trying to pretend that you know how this would affect the game is laughable. But I'll humor you. What would you put in place to replace the resource management and gold sink that would be necessary to circumvent people having access to way too many resources and gold?What people are asking for here is a simple change that would take next to no time to implement, would have no negative impact on the game and would allow them to overcome a ridiculous restriction that this game puts on their playstyle that all those other games with their restricted class and crafter choices do not put on them!
If someone's progress is stopped by inventory space, they should probably use/sell the crap that's in there. Correct?All you've given in this thread are rash words, wrong statements and half baked excuses, I'm still waiting for you to make even half a valid argument. Oh by the way, you may have read some people saying they can't play their alts because their inventory is full? Think that could halt someone's progress in any way?Edited by Allyah on May 4, 2014 11:45PM0 -
Cats525✭✭
On my part? You're kidding, right? If you really believe, that in the situation of the unbalanced skill line, everybody would consider it a problem, you're at least naive, because you can bank on those, who like to play overpowered chars and just waste people in pvp by any means necessary, to defend it just the same way you're defending the current inventory system now. It's certainly not causing them any trouble.Faulty logic on your part. I was talking about a certain system. You are talking about a completely different system that is a problem for everyone.
And I never claimed you said that. You said if one person can do it, others can do it too. I was simply pointing out that since people play this game in many different ways, your statement is way too simplified, especially for a game such as ESO that's all about freedom of choice.I don't recall writing there isn't more than one way to do things. I simply stated that the system in place for this game already works and it works how it is intended.
Gladly, how about the luxury of the stable increase that I could already afford at lvl 3, even though I absolutely won't have any use for it until way later. 10 Gold? Seriously? The first bank increase, that especially people who bought the collections edition like me are eager to get fast because we got tons of maps, costs 1000 gold, but buying another mount slot, which really is just luxury early on costs 10 gold? Next one 100 gold?Trying to pretend that you know how this would affect the game is laughable. But I'll humor you. What would you put in place to replace the resource management and gold sink that would be necessary to circumvent people having access to way too many resources and gold?
As for the resources, as long as they are stored, they don't cause any kind of trouble. It won't crash the economy, because seriously, crafting materials aren't that great for selling as they are in other games anyway, since plenty is laying around. In most other MMOs, the first tier of ore almost costs you an arm and a leg. Heck if people actually have enough space to store them all, people who only keep what they need might even be able to sell more of them than they do now.
Depends on whether it is crap, otherwhise atm, it might be better to create yet another alt if they don't have 8 chars yet... or Zenimax could give us more space and make the entire question redundant.If someone's progress is stopped by inventory space, they should probably use/sell the crap that's in there. Correct?
Edited by Cats525 on May 5, 2014 12:39AM0 -
Allyah✭✭✭
Just because some people like it doesn't mean it's not a problem. Just like just because some people don't like something doesn't mean it is a problem.
On my part? You're kidding, right? If you really believe, that in the situation of the unbalanced skill line, everybody would consider it a problem, you're at least naive, because you can bank on those, who like to play overpowered chars and just waste people in pvp by any means necessary, to defend it just the same way you're defending the current inventory system now. It's certainly not causing them any trouble.Faulty logic on your part. I was talking about a certain system. You are talking about a completely different system that is a problem for everyone.
My statement is not simplified. You're the one that can't seem to understand that I am not comparing ESO to other MMO's. I am just treating it as a game with a system of it's own. Trying to compare systems directly from other games with this one is what is simplified thinking. Just because certain things work better in other games does not mean they will work in this one.
And I never claimed you said that. You said if one person can do it, others can do it too. I was simply pointing out that since people play this game in many different ways, your statement is way to simplified, especially for a game such as ESO that's all about freedom of choice.I don't recall writing there isn't more than one way to do things. I simply stated that the system in place for this game already works and it works how it is intended.
You didn't give me an answer about how to replace the gold sink from buying bag spaces. The horses are meant as a gold sink later in the game while the bag-space is one throughout the whole game. Buying a stable spot for a horse and how much it costs is inconsequential. Either the stable spot or the horse will be a large expense. It makes much more sense to have the horse cost more than a stable spot. Give me an answer that replaces a steady gold sink from beginning to endgame.
Gladly, how about the luxury of the stable increase that I could already afford at lvl 3, even though I absolutely won't have any use for it until way later. 10 Gold? Seriously? The first bank increase, that especially people who bought the collections edition like me are eager to get fast because we got tons of maps, costs 1000 gold, but buying another mount slot, which really is just luxury early on costs 10 gold? Next one 100 gold?Trying to pretend that you know how this would affect the game is laughable. But I'll humor you. What would you put in place to replace the resource management and gold sink that would be necessary to circumvent people having access to way too many resources and gold?
As for the resources, as long as they are stored, they don't cause any kind of trouble. It won't crash the economy, because seriously, crafting materials aren't that great for selling as they are in other games anyway, since plenty is laying around. In most other MMOs, the first tier of ore almost cost you and arm and a leg. Heck if people actually have enough space to store them all, people who only keep what they need might even be able to sell more of them than they do now.
As for the resources, if they are so easily attainable, we don't really need more bankspace to hold onto them, do we?
No one is going to have so many rare materials that their bank space is full of them (particularly in the beginning of the game when your bank space is so limited). Therefore, the only thing that is going to cause someone's bank to be full is if they are keeping common items in there. In that case, they can use them, sell them, give them to an alt to use, or delete them (lots of choices, right?) Then, they wouldn't have any trouble with their bank space.
Depends on whether it is crap, otherwhise atm, it might be better to create yet another alt if they don't have 8 chars yet... or Zenimax could give us more space and make the entire question redundant.If someone's progress is stopped by inventory space, they should probably use/sell the crap that's in there. Correct?
To be honest, it's too early to tell if the economy will really be effected by more/cheaper bank space. But, unless you're trying to hoard materials (unnecessary currently), there is no reason why you need more or cheaper bank space at the moment. Everyone in the game is capable of crafting at least 3-4 professions (depending on the profession) at a time effectively without the use of an alt. Just be patient and wait until the economy is more settled before trying to get something fixed that, as of now, is not broken.0 -
Cats525✭✭
And who decides whether it is a problem or not? You? Because in the unbalance skill line situation some people will claim that it's causing them trouble, maybe even destroys their game, others on the other hand have no problem with it at all and will claim that it's working as intended, that it's not a problem, because it's the same for all, and that since they can manage, others can too. Sounds familiar?Just because some people like it doesn't mean it's not a problem. Just like just because some people don't like something doesn't mean it is a problem.
I can do it so you can do it is not simplified? Are you even still trying to sound reasonable?My statement is not simplified. You're the one that can't seem to understand that I am not comparing ESO to other MMO's. I am just treating it as a game with a system of it's own. Trying to compare systems directly from other games with this one is what is simplified thinking. Just because certain things work better in other games does not mean they will work in this one.
I did, you obviously just didn't understand again. You ask about another gold sink and at the same time say how much a stable spot costs is inconsequential? Ever bothered to consider that I might have suggested to raise the stable costs to make them that gold sink? Both have a one time purchase system, but the stable spots are actually per character, meaning they make for an even better gold sink. Besides it wouldn't be hard to refund the people who already have 3 stable spots their 110 gold and simply lock the additional horses until they bought them again. Apart from that bloody obvious opportunity for a gold sink, they can always add a new one. Nobody knows exactly how Spellcrafting will work for example or what it really does yet, there may be another gold sink involved. Besides you don't really need gold sinks early on, that gold often goes into trading, like buying stuff from more advanced players who then spend the gold on the endgame goldsink.You didn't give me an answer about how to replace the gold sink from buying bag spaces. The horses are meant as a gold sink later in the game while the bag-space is one throughout the whole game. Buying a stable spot for a horse and how much it costs is inconsequential. Either the stable spot or the horse will be a large expense. It makes much more sense to have the horse cost more than a stable spot. Give me an answer that replaces a steady gold sink from beginning to endgame.
Since we can already pick up items, we don't need them to increase our abilities there, do we? Funny how they still intend to do it. Probably to save us time? Now what could storing resouces instead of farming them right before you want to use them do for us?As for the resources, if they are so easily attainable, we don't really need more bankspace to hold onto them, do we?
This is just silly, I mean those are the most pathetic attempts to be right about anything that I've seen in years and that really means something.
Sure, no reason at all to keep those treasure maps (one for each territory, minus the starting islands, of all three factions and one for coldharbour, so 16 total for CE buyers), or the armor pieces/weapons that have traits that you haven't researched yet, or the pets, or the pledge of mara... gee imagine the hillarious thought of some people actually wanting to roleplay in this game someday and therefor holding on to a costume they like or people actually keeping a trophy item!No one is going to have so many rare materials that their bank space is full of them (particularly in the beginning of the game when your bank space is so limited). Therefore, the only thing that is going to cause someone's bank to be full is if they are keeping common items in there. In that case, they can use them, sell them, give them to an alt to use, or delete them (lots of choices, right?) Then, they wouldn't have any trouble with their bank space.
To be honest, it's too early to tell if the economy will really be effected by more/cheaper bank space. But, unless you're trying to hoard materials (unnecessary currently), there is no reason why you need more or cheaper bank space at the moment. Everyone in the game is capable of crafting at least 3-4 professions (depending on the profession) at a time effectively without the use of an alt. Just be patient and wait until the economy is more settled before trying to get something fixed that, as of now, is not broken.
To be honest this discussion is pointless, with the statement above you only pronounced your ignorance once more. You claim I didn't answer your questions, while I clearly did, you try to salvage what's left of your petty attempts to make a point by claiming faulty logic on my part or by claiming that I was implying you had said something that you didn't actually say, which I didn't do, you try to throw in "smart ass" questions in an attempt to corner me, which doesn't work, one time you say my comments are incomplete, next time they are too long to read... and for what, for heroically defending the inventory system that the bad people complain about? Just out of curiosity, when was the last time you were wrong about anything?0 -
Allyah✭✭✭
I see you're still having issues with keeping it short and sweet. The lack of short I wouldn't mind if you didn't take every opportunity to make yourself look like an ass. No, no, don't respond. I asked 2 questions and I was not being a smart ass in either of them and yet all I get is sarcasm back. You've made it quite clear the only thing you can see is what you perceive to be true. If you can't keep it polite after that last response, you're seriously not worth the time. Have fun arguing at a wall.
And who decides whether it is a problem or not? You? Because in the unbalance skill line situation some people will claim that it's causing them trouble, maybe even destroys their game, others on the other hand have no problem with it at all and will claim that it's working as intended, that it's not a problem, because it's the same for all, and that since they can manage, others can too. Sounds familiar?Just because some people like it doesn't mean it's not a problem. Just like just because some people don't like something doesn't mean it is a problem.
I can do it so you can do it is not simplified? Are you even still trying to sound reasonable?My statement is not simplified. You're the one that can't seem to understand that I am not comparing ESO to other MMO's. I am just treating it as a game with a system of it's own. Trying to compare systems directly from other games with this one is what is simplified thinking. Just because certain things work better in other games does not mean they will work in this one.
I did, you obviously just didn't understand again. You ask about another gold sink and at the same time say how much a stable spot costs is inconsequential? Ever bothered to consider that I might have suggested to raise the stable costs to make them that gold sink? Both have a one time purchase system, but the stable spots are actually per character, meaning they make for an even better gold sink. Besides it wouldn't be hard to refund the people who already have 3 stable spots their 110 gold and simply lock the additional horses until they bought them again. Apart from that bloody obvious opportunity for a gold sink, they can always add a new one. Nobody knows exactly how Spellcrafting will work for example or what it really does yet, there may be another gold sink involved. Besides you don't really need gold sinks early on, that gold often goes into trading, like buying stuff from more advanced players who then spend the gold on the endgame goldsink.You didn't give me an answer about how to replace the gold sink from buying bag spaces. The horses are meant as a gold sink later in the game while the bag-space is one throughout the whole game. Buying a stable spot for a horse and how much it costs is inconsequential. Either the stable spot or the horse will be a large expense. It makes much more sense to have the horse cost more than a stable spot. Give me an answer that replaces a steady gold sink from beginning to endgame.
Since we can already pick up items, we don't need them to increase our abilities there, do we? Funny how they still intend to do it. Probably to save us time? Now what could storing resouces instead of farming them right before you want to use them do for us?As for the resources, if they are so easily attainable, we don't really need more bankspace to hold onto them, do we?
This is just silly, I mean those are the most pathetic attempts to be right about anything that I've seen in years and that really means something.
Sure, no reason at all to keep those treasure maps (one for each territory, minus the starting islands, of all three factions and one for coldharbour, so 16 total for CE buyers), or the armor pieces/weapons that have traits that you haven't researched yet, or the pets, or the pledge of mara... gee imagine the hillarious thought of some people actually wanting to roleplay in this game someday and therefor holding on to a costume they like or people actually keeping a trophy item!No one is going to have so many rare materials that their bank space is full of them (particularly in the beginning of the game when your bank space is so limited). Therefore, the only thing that is going to cause someone's bank to be full is if they are keeping common items in there. In that case, they can use them, sell them, give them to an alt to use, or delete them (lots of choices, right?) Then, they wouldn't have any trouble with their bank space.
To be honest, it's too early to tell if the economy will really be effected by more/cheaper bank space. But, unless you're trying to hoard materials (unnecessary currently), there is no reason why you need more or cheaper bank space at the moment. Everyone in the game is capable of crafting at least 3-4 professions (depending on the profession) at a time effectively without the use of an alt. Just be patient and wait until the economy is more settled before trying to get something fixed that, as of now, is not broken.
To be honest this discussion is pointless, with the statement above you only pronounced your ignorance once more. You claim I didn't answer your questions, while I clearly did, you try to salvage what's left of your petty attempts to make a point by claiming faulty logic on my part or by claiming that I was implying you had said something that you didn't actually say, which I didn't do, you try to throw in "smart ass" questions in an attempt to corner me, which doesn't work, one time you say my comments are incomplete, next time they are too long to read... and for what, for heroically defending the inventory system that the bad people complain about? Just out of curiosity, when was the last time you were wrong about anything?0 -
Blazeer✭If they gave enough bank space to please those people who are trying to level 6 crafts or who just have to loot and hoard everything then there will be no gameplay for players who just level 1 craft. They gave you enough for 1 craft. If you want to do more than that you have to struggle. I think it's a good design. What you should do is just sell everything except what you need for 1 craft. You will have lots of gold. Then when you are VR10 and bored and have a really fast horse you can zoom round the areas and farm the mats you need. Or use your VR10 gold to buy them from people. It's much more efficient to level crafts this way. Afterall nodes never stop spawning. You might think its efficient to mine that ore right now because its in your way. You are wrong. It takes time to get off the horse, time to mine it, time to put it in your bank. Get it later when you actually want to level that profession. Saving things for later that never stop respawning is just a bad strategy.
I have 2 crafts on my main char, blacksmithing and enchanting, do you have any idea how many items I need to store just for it? Quite a lot!
Blacksmithing: 8x trait, 14x style, 9x metal, 4x quality, 9x ingot (Not to mention those pieces of equipment you want to save up for researching).
Enchanting: 17x essence runes, 5x aspect runes, 28x potency runes.
In total 94 spaces. I like to be able to craft low lvl items for new char and high lvl items for my buddies, hence the necessety for all metals and runes. The ingots I carry them on my personal inv, so ok down to total 85 spaces, and yes I do have all style mats, I get lotsof pieces to deconstruct from my mates and they get nifty gear from me.
I must say that I would really like to be able to use some bank space for some of my trofies, extra set of armour with different traits, jewelery with diferent traits, some food and potions, cuz honestly I feel like I spend more time emptying my enventory then filling it up!
Luckely I place low lvl craft. mats. on my guild bank, wich lightens the burden, then again as soon as I created a new char my whole bank got overstuffed pretty quickly. Also the game has a crafting system so it's only natural some players will want to craft, and somehow it feels like we are being punished for it.
You may say that by crafting we also generate more money, hence we are able to purchase more inv/bank space. To be honest I don't find it that easy to sell my stuff, and I must say that I got really surprised at how hard it was to sell vr1 purple glyphs, cuz they are really nice.
So yeah, If you don't craft you have plenty of inv. space, but if you do you're really dependent of how lucky you are on getting your items sold.
And NO I don't like to overprice my selling items!
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Avidus✭✭✭I actually thought the bank space is a good size, and I am genuinely happy with it, and hope that the players can see reason over greed.
Here are a few points as to why it must be limited.
- No item in ESO is particularly hard to come by.
- With the guild store system, people need to sell and buy a lot for it to work.
- 9 out of 10 items are useful, so if you had enough bank space to store everything useful then there would be no point in guild stores or trade.
Here are some useful tips to assist you with storage.
- Do not store things you 'might' use later.
- Do not try to store an abundance of weapons and armour if you are not using it.
- Do not store every provisioning ingredient you find!
- Use what you have, otherwise why bother having it.
What makes me say what I say? Well @Allyah has a point.
1 person can do it, other people can..
Its simple, it just requires thought.1 -
Cats525✭✭@Allyah
As if I had done anything else throughout the conversation. But it's alright, I did't expect you to actually answer any of the questions, even the serious ones and especially the last one, and I'm ok with it, this was going nowhere anyway. I know now that having a conversation with you is pointless, so I'll avoid it in the future.Have fun arguing at a wall.
@Avidus
Think about it for a moment, if no item was hard to come by and I should only get it right before I want to use it... why would I buy it at the store? People usually buy large amouts of material because it's way easier than to farm it, but if they can only afford to get what you need immediately, because you can't store the rest, you might as well go out and gather it. As I've already mentioned several times, I have all 6 profession distributed over 6 chars, and I usually don't buy any crafting materials with any of them. Only once I bought a few pieces of ore of the next tier, because my smithing character was about to reach the level of that tier's armor and weapons before reaching the places it spawns at, and I almost didn't do it because it took precious space. How does that fit into your theory?I actually thought the bank space is a good size, and I am genuinely happy with it, and hope that the players can see reason over greed.
Here are a few points as to why it must be limited.
- No item in ESO is particularly hard to come by.
- With the guild store system, people need to sell and buy a lot for it to work.
- 9 out of 10 items are useful, so if you had enough bank space to store everything useful then there would be no point in guild stores or trade.
If there was more bankspace, not everyone would use it to the fullest, some folks would still get rid of things they don't need right now or not at all, because they don't have a profession or two. Those people could actually sell to others who would store it to use when they need it. And we're not just talking about crafting materials, but also equipment for alt chars, who are still one, two or more level below that item.
Appreciated, let's see.Here are some useful tips to assist you with storage.
The only things I've stored that fall into that category are the collectors edtion treasure maps from the regions I haven't visited yet, the pledge of Mara since I couldn't get any of my friends to give this game a try, and the pets. I assume you do not intend to suggest people should delete their collectors edition and preorder items, so since I have no other items in that cathegory, I'd say I already followed that advice.- Do not store things you 'might' use later.
Not doing that either. The only equipment I've stored at the moment are research projects for the next few days and that only because I don't play "enough" to do questing these days and researching takes a long time when you get to the last traits.- Do not try to store an abundance of weapons and armour if you are not using it.
Not doing that either if the emphasis is on "every". I do store some on my provisining char because, well that char is actually using that stuff. I already got rid of low level stuff that I don't really have a use for. I also try to only keep the ingredients for the recipes of the faction of my main char, which turned out to be slightly difficult with having characters in each faction and the provisioning char being from a different one than the main char.- Do not store every provisioning ingredient you find!
Probably because you can't use it yet, like the CE treasure maps? Or because you want to use it later and will have a hard time getting it back, like for example people who may want to rp sometime and want to keep a costume? It's easy to get it back if it's from the starting area and you still have an empty character slot, but later on? You can't do the quest again with they same char, you have to level a new one to get it again. Or because you know you'll have use for it in a day or two, like crafting materials you find that you just lack one skill level to use. Also do you try to create epic lvl 10 items because it's better than to hold on to those tempers?- Use what you have, otherwise why bother having it.
You're right, it requires thought, so it'd be better if you put some into it, because that's way too simplified and generalised. With the above one, this is your second generalisation now. When Allyah came up with it, I resposed with this:What makes me say what I say? Well @Allyah has a point.
1 person can do it, other people can..
Its simple, it just requires thought.
Your predecessor didn't come up with much of an answer to that, how about you?By that statement if any none class skill-line was way overpowered, there'd be no reason to balance it out because, hey, everyone can learn it! And that's just one of the most basic examples why that's downright nonsense. I could give you alot more examples of why such generalisation is always wrong even up to uncomfortable ones like how by that statement it would make no sense making software that helps blind people use a pc, because the next person who can see doesn't need it either.
But to get down to the simple matter of a computer game again, well guess what, there's actually more than one way to do things, and elder scrolls is advertising and partly delivering just that. You're not limited to wearing cloth armor to be a mage, you're not limited to only be able to raise one, two or even three crafting skills with one character. You're probably asking yourself why they did that, since by your standard, when people could play with those restrictions in other games, there's no reason to lift them. But then again it makes any progress unnecessary, why have electricity, people have proven they can live without it! This game is supposed to overcome the restrictions of other games, why take two steps back here?
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Yakidafi✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think the bank andbag space is good as is.
I just wonder if the idea of different bank space for every bank has been mentioned? So can get 50 in every bankhouse 50*10=500 space.
Just a thought.Moons and sands shall be your guide and path.
PC EU/NA0 -
Unknown_poster✭✭✭As far as I have been able to find following this and other posts...no one actually knows what the bank cap is. I thought it would be 200. I bought the upgrade....and guess what...next upgrade available to take it to 210.0 -
Cats525✭✭
That's all well and good, and if the final cap turns out to be 500 for example, I doubt I'll call for raising that. But it's quite obvious that it's early on that bankspace turns into a problem, especially for people who play many chars with many professions. If they had set the initial number to lets say 200 and then made every raise beyond that more expensive to make up for the gold not spent before, I doubt anyone would have made a thread about that topic by now.davidgawronrwb17_ESO wrote: »As far as I have been able to find following this and other posts...no one actually knows what the bank cap is. I thought it would be 200. I bought the upgrade....and guess what...next upgrade available to take it to 210.Edited by Cats525 on May 5, 2014 2:20PM0 -
DargardSoul Shriven
^^tbh I really like GW2's bank system; you have a normal bank space and a collection bank specifically for crafting materials; both shared amongst all characters.
you can even send items from your inventory directly to the collection from anywhere; tho that isn't necessary imo in eso, but seperating crafting materials out from the normal bank space I think is something the devs at least should consider.
What Shia said. The separate tabbed bank space specifically for crafting materials would fix the space issues. Make it the same size as the other bank. I feel that this alone with fix the storage space issues. It's reasonable, simple and hey, we know it works.
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User✭✭If you're desperate for space, I think the best solution right now is buying another account just for storing items (mule account). It is a pay to win solution, but you'll have a plenty of space (8 characters and the bank). Plus, you can easily send the items to the mule account via mail. Then if your character on the main account needs them, you can send them back.Edited by User on May 5, 2014 3:14PM0 -
Maverick827✭✭✭✭✭
✭I guess we can see now why ZOS refuses to respond on this matter: they're tying to get as many people to buy "mule" accounts as possible.
It's probably more cost effective to buy gold and expand your bank/inventory, which is something they should be looking to fix.0 -
Allyah✭✭✭Maverick827 wrote: »I guess we can see now why ZOS refuses to respond on this matter: they're tying to get as many people to buy "mule" accounts as possible.
Or... and I'm just throwing this out there... they are focusing on more important things. I know it's a crazy idea but it certainly deserves consideration.0 -
TheVindelator✭✭✭In a modern mmo, you shouldn't need "mules" just to play the game normally.
ESO's inventory system makes me feel like I'm playing diablo 2.
I understand limits make things feel more real but I shouldn't have to waste so much play time just moving items around. Instead of having fun, I'm just logging in an out.Edited by TheVindelator on May 5, 2014 6:35PM0 -
Allyah✭✭✭@TheVindelator
You don't need mules to play the game normally. Ask anyone who doesn't use them.
I'm guessing from your post that you think not having to spend time moving stuff around is normal. I get it. We all think something can be changed to improve it. But... This is just your preference, and is not a real indicator of how something should be.
I understand people having opinions that certain things can be improved but I don't believe these "improvements" must be made just because some people have that opinion. Many people like how it is now. Saying something shouldn't be a certain way makes it seem that you believe other peoples preferences are inconsequential. "What you like shouldn't be this way."0 -
Tarukmockto✭✭✭I think the bank space should be more around the 100 space to start out. I would also like to see the bag and bank expansion space be larger for the cost in gold. I'd feel more like I got my money's worth if it was 20 spaces in an expansion. This is just my opinion, although one I share with most of the folks I play with.NA - DC - DK - PC0