Essence Of Detection range on PTS???

FantasticFreddie · May 2023

Oh interesting, this one moved again.

DrNukenstein · May 2023

It may be coming. We may soon know for sure whether this is just a test, or if Necrom really will be the chapter of no-fun allowed in PVP

Mayrael · May 2023

DrNukenstein wrote: »

It may be coming. We may soon know for sure whether this is just a test, or if Necrom really will be the chapter of no-fun allowed in PVP

To be absolutely honest, I don't care anymore. I definitely won't buy the Chapter, I don't need ESO+ because I've already prepared my mules, so I'll just play for free and won't spend a penny on this game until ZOS gets their act together. One thing I will definitely do is run around IC and kill every casual player I come across. So, my dear newbies, thank ZOS for giving experienced PvPers a tool that will no longer allow you to hide in IC in peace

Jammy420 · May 2023

ZOS_Hadeostry wrote: »

Greetings,

After removing some unnecessary back and forth from this thread, we would like everyone to keep posts on the subject at hand, civil, and constructive.

If there may be any questions in regards to the rules, please feel free to review them here

Really? this is all we get ?

speaks volumes really.

Aka_ · May 2023

YIKES, I looked at the wrong PTS notes like an idiot. Disregard

Synozeer · May 2023

Aka_ wrote: »

The latest patch notes do not address the huge impact this will have on people. Pathetic indeed how terrible their communication has been. Once again, they failed to address a concern of the community.

This is from the latest patch notes:

Detection Potions: Reduced the bonus detection size of these potions to 43.5 meters, down from 100 meters. These values will ensure similar power experiences and detection sizes as before, with the new updates to how Invisibility works with detection bonuses under the hood.

Mayrael · May 2023

Synozeer wrote: »

Aka_ wrote: »

The latest patch notes do not address the huge impact this will have on people. Pathetic indeed how terrible their communication has been. Once again, they failed to address a concern of the community.

This is from the latest patch notes:

Detection Potions: Reduced the bonus detection size of these potions to 43.5 meters, down from 100 meters. These values will ensure similar power experiences and detection sizes as before, with the new updates to how Invisibility works with detection bonuses under the hood.

Yeah it looks like it was a bug. Im waiting for PTS to be up to check how it works now.

Bushido2513 · May 2023

Everyone cool?

DrNukenstein · May 2023

Yeah, they made it a reasonable change instead of an insane change that negates stealth for all players in a pi ×100^2 meter area.

43.5 keeps the detection to the fight where it's being used, without exposing players who aren't in or approaching that fight. It also adds counterplay to ranged stealth builds which have had it a little too good lately, but definitely not that much better than sorcs who streak once in awhile instead of standing still and free casting.

There's still probably going to be the occasional comms group keeping 100% uptime on the detect pots, but it will be less than half as potent as it would have been.

You gotta wonder if that was the plan. Break a reasonable but controversial change to the community by making it insane and then stepping it down to something not that that bad.

Credible_Joe · May 2023

I bet they were just tweaking stealth, invis and detection interactions to be more efficient, and 100m was just an easy number to parse and test. Maybe there were issues with detect pots stacking that we weren't aware of and they wanted to stress test it.

100m felt like an arbitrary dev value to me, not a gameplay value.

Kaysha · May 2023

DrNukenstein wrote: »

Yeah, they made it a reasonable change instead of an insane change that negates stealth for all players in a 2pi x100 meter area.

43.5 keeps the detection to the fight where it's being used, without exposing players who aren't in or approaching that fight. It also adds counterplay to ranged stealth builds which have had it a little too good lately, but definitely not that much better than sorcs who streak once in awhile instead of standing still and free casting.

There's still probably going to be the occasional comms group keeping 100% uptime on the detect pots, but it will be less than half as potent as it would have been.

You gotta wonder if that was the plan. Break a reasonable but controversial change to the community by making it insane and then stepping it down to something not that that bad.

This is very very likely the case

Mayrael · May 2023

So I conducted some tests on the PTS and here's what I found:

1. Exactly as written in the patch notes, the detection range of targets that are INVISIBLE has not changed compared to what's on live. Everything is okay!
2. The bug where someone standing very close (<1m) to a NB and not using any detection methods could still see the NB even when they were invisible has been fixed. Great!
3. However, there has been a significant change to the detection range of players who are in stealth. I marked on the picture MORE OR LESS how it looks like in practice in the game.

EDIT:
In other words, cloak wasn't nerfed and even got fixed. Stealth aka crouch got nerfed about twice the range.
All test were done with CP's Piercing Gaze and Out of sight.

Mayrael · May 2023

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Everyone cool?

While NBs are cool, it seems like everyone else got nerfed, which is the exact opposite of what was expected. I'm not sure if it's a good idea, but since the change is a result of a bug fix, maybe it has technical foundations, meaning it's the simplest working solution, and changing it back to the live state could bring even more issues and bugs, so they opted for the simplest solution.

Tommy_The_Gun · May 2023

Now it is "only" 43 meters

I mean, on live we have 20 meters. Focused Aim (Snipe morph) for reference has a range of 40 meters. It is the ability with the longest range. So, you can now go & test it on live and see the range for yourself. Just approach near any enemy and see when the skill lights up. It is quite remarkable that THIS is where you will be able to see stealthed / invisible players and this change is actually going though lol.

At least it will be brain-dead easy to counter stealth / invisibility next patch. So maybe less people will complain about it or at least less people will have an argument to complain about.

So, unless there is something I don't know about it is still kinda ridiculous, but at least maybe, just maybe the PvE side of Cyro will be playable for those who just want to avoid PvP and do questing or clear the map & get skyshards or something. As for IC - it will be still abusive and solo gameplay (not ganking) will be gone for good.

Jaimeh · May 2023

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Now it is "only" 43 meters

I mean, on live we have 20 meters. Focused Aim (Snipe morph) for reference has a range of 40 meters. It is the ability with the longest range. So, you can now go & test it on live and see the range for yourself. Just approach near any enemy and see when the skill lights up. It is quite remarkable that THIS is where you will be able to see stealthed / invisible players and this change is actually going though lol.

At least it will be brain-dead easy to counter stealth / invisibility next patch. So maybe less people will complain about it or at least less people will have an argument to complain about.

So, unless there is something I don't know about it is still kinda ridiculous, but at least maybe, just maybe the PvE side of Cyro will be playable for those who just want to avoid PvP and clear the map & get skyshards or something. As for IC - it will be still abusive and solo gameplay (not ganking) will be gone for good.

I bet there'll still be complaining, the people who complain about stealth play won't be happy until they straight up delete NBs... really awful that zos gave in, and that we should even be grateful that it's not 100 meters...

Mayrael · May 2023

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Now it is "only" 43 meters

I mean, on live we have 20 meters. Focused Aim (Snipe morph) for reference has a range of 40 meters. It is the ability with the longest range. So, you can now go & test it on live and see the range for yourself. Just approach near any enemy and see when the skill lights up. It is quite remarkable that THIS is where you will be able to see stealthed / invisible players and this change is actually going though lol.

At least it will be brain-dead easy to counter stealth / invisibility next patch. So maybe less people will complain about it or at least less people will have an argument to complain about.

So, unless there is something I don't know about it is still kinda ridiculous, but at least maybe, just maybe the PvE side of Cyro will be playable for those who just want to avoid PvP and do questing or clear the map & get skyshards or something. As for IC - it will be still abusive and solo gameplay (not ganking) will be gone for good.

@Tommy_The_Gun

Actually now stealthed =/= invisible detecion range. Invisible targets can be detected from exactly the same range as on live, stealthed targets though now will be detected from 2x as far as on live.

Necrotech_Master · May 2023

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Now it is "only" 43 meters

I mean, on live we have 20 meters. Focused Aim (Snipe morph) for reference has a range of 40 meters. It is the ability with the longest range. So, you can now go & test it on live and see the range for yourself. Just approach near any enemy and see when the skill lights up. It is quite remarkable that THIS is where you will be able to see stealthed / invisible players and this change is actually going though lol.

At least it will be brain-dead easy to counter stealth / invisibility next patch. So maybe less people will complain about it or at least less people will have an argument to complain about.

So, unless there is something I don't know about it is still kinda ridiculous, but at least maybe, just maybe the PvE side of Cyro will be playable for those who just want to avoid PvP and clear the map & get skyshards or something. As for IC - it will be still abusive and solo gameplay (not ganking) will be gone for good.

in pvp, lethal arrow has 48 meter range and focused aim has 53 meter range (what i see on the tooltips, on live right now)

battle spirit is +8 meter to attacks with 28+ meters range, and the reach passive adds an additional +5 meter to 28+ meter ranged attacks when near a keep or outpost

without reach bonus it would be 43 and 48 meters range respectively for lethal arrow and focused aim

so with just battle spirit it would be just outside of the detect pot range, but not by a large margin