The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8098811/#Comment_8098811
• PC/Mac: NA megaserver for maintenance – April 25, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 2:00PM EDT (18:00 UTC)
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8098811/#Comment_8098811
Essence Of Detection range on PTS???
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Galeriano✭✭✭✭✭
✭a glowy red eye on top of your target's head like NPC's have would be a great QoL but yet again since everything is perfectly balanced: to counter detect potions just dont use cloak
Is there any indicator saying that nb in stealth is going to attack someone allowing that person to instantly take countermeasures? No
Why than should nightblade have similar thing informing him that someone used detect pot? If nightblade can suprise someone with stealth attack than other players deserve to suprise nightblade with detection.
Edited by Galeriano on April 28, 2023 1:11PM5 -
Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
With 100 meters detected radius ?a glowy red eye on top of your target's head like NPC's have would be a great QoL but yet again since everything is perfectly balanced: to counter detect potions just dont use cloak
Is there any indicator saying that nb in stealth is going to attack someone allowing that person to instantly take countermeasures? No
Why than should nightblade have similar thing informing him that someone used detect pot? If nightblade can suprise someone with stealth attack than other players deserve to suprise nightblade with detection.
Yeah... that is gonna be surprise for sure... I go to Cyro on my EP character, I approach Transitus Network teleport in my home base and... why I can't stealth ? I guess there are some DCs at Kings lol.
With detected radius being THIS big, it will work the other way arround. If I am gonna be randomly detected, then I have an "early warning" system (warning ! bandits inbound, contact inevitable !) before they will be even rendered by the game's engine...
Edited by Tommy_The_Gun on April 28, 2023 1:35PM3 -
Galeriano✭✭✭✭✭
✭Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »
With 100 meters detected radius ?a glowy red eye on top of your target's head like NPC's have would be a great QoL but yet again since everything is perfectly balanced: to counter detect potions just dont use cloak
Is there any indicator saying that nb in stealth is going to attack someone allowing that person to instantly take countermeasures? No
Why than should nightblade have similar thing informing him that someone used detect pot? If nightblade can suprise someone with stealth attack than other players deserve to suprise nightblade with detection.
Yeah... that is gonna be surprise for sure... I go to Cyro on my EP character, I approach Transitus Network teleport in my home base and... why I can't stealth ? I guess there are some DCs at Kings lol.
With detected radius being THIS big, it will work the other way arround. If I am gonna be randomly detected, then I have an "early warning" system (warning ! bandits inbound, contact inevitable !) before they will be even rendered by the game's engine...
Well if You are 100 meters away from someone and You are seeing that person is going straight into Your direction that You should know what's going on. Also it will take few seconds to traverse that 100 meters so he won't have to actively deal with detection for 15 seconds more like half of that time.
There is more than 100 meters between base and keeps around. 100 meters is something like siege range, You are not rendering sieges on Your computer?Edited by Galeriano on April 28, 2023 1:57PM2 -
ioResult✭✭✭Why than should nightblade have similar thing informing him that someone used detect pot? If nightblade can suprise someone with stealth attack than other players deserve to suprise nightblade with detection.
Anyone HIDDEN can surprise someone with a stealth attack, not just a Nightblade.
Simply crouch and sneak around.
Come up behind someone and attack them.
This is not unique to nightblades.
ZOS made it so easy for ANY class to do that, by giving everyone the Vampire passives - Dark Stalker & Strike from the Shadows - which *SHOULD* be Nightblade passives instead of Vampire passives. They are why we've had Sorc ganker builds, Necor ganker builds, DK ganker builds, you name it.
But with the last few patches, the open world PvP that @ZOS_Kevin & @ZOS_GinaBruno now preside over is world of the Talentless Zerg:
1) You can be a Warden, a DK, a Sorc or a Templar. Doesn't matter. It's all the same.
2) Put on a crutch set like Mara's Balm, so healing is multiplied & you're auto-cleansing.
3) Put a resto staff on your back bar to gain infinitely stacking AoE heals like Rapid Regeneration.
4) Get in a big zerg. You don't have to be in an actual group because heals are all AoE and will stack infinitely.
5) Everyone stay close so everyone can stack cross-heals on each other.
6) Now - over & over again - everyone spam an AoE heal followed by a CC ability (stun, fear, immobilize) to build Ulti.
7) When you see others dumping their Ulti, you dump your Ulti too. 10, 20, 30, 40 of you all on single targets.
8) Repeat this simple rotation over & over & over and you too can Xv1 focus down any more skilled players, one by one.
9) It's amazing! It takes NO SKILL. Anyone can do it as a result of the last few patches!
You see, the vast majority of the time Nightblades are using cloak is not to sneak up on someone to gank them or bomb them, it is to get AWAY from the Talentless Zerg, .
People new to Nightblade learn very quickly that cloak doesn't help you get away from experienced PvP people that you try to gank. They will throw flares, they know which abilities now pull Nightblades out of stealth, and use 20m range detect pots.
Which leads me to the 10th rule of the Talentless Zerg:
10) If you're a poor Nightblade, the Talentless Zerg wants you to please just wear Sentry and either spam Acid Spray or be a healer.
Wait what? Sentry? Yes Sentry. A terrible set released by ZOS for no other purpose than to kill anyone hidden, not just Nightblades.
The talentless Nightblade in the Talentless Zerg simply wears Sentry and then when THEY crouch, EVERYONE on other factions that is hidden (not just nightblades) is instantly revealed, NO MATTER HOW FAR AWAY THEY ARE.
This awful set is already in the game. It already goes 100m or more. It has a shorter cooldown and a longer range than this new Detect potion. That is why this change to the Detect range is not necessary. All it does is make it so no one in the Talentless Zerg has to waste spots in their build to wearSentry. Now EVERYONE can wear two healing sets and do the Ulti-Build Shuffle!
The bottom line is that this change only benefits the Talentless Zerg, no one else. It is not needed. The Talentless Zerg can already spam flares, run Sentry, cast all kinds of abilities that now pull Nightblades out of cloak, etc. They don't need it but that ARE going to abuse it if this change goes through.
Because the ONLY thing that this change does is make it so no Nightblade can use a primary defensive class ability in their toolkit to get away from Xv1 combat and regain resources.
There is zero need to make this change. It makes this potion too powerful and exploitable and it eliminates all but one Nightblade play style in PvP, the brawling Healblade (i.e. everyone using ReactSlower's build).
8 -
DrNukenstein✭✭✭✭✭Yeah, stop singling out the ganker playstyle.
Everyone that pvp's regularly has a bigger problem playing against the no stealth youtube build which is why it's everywhere.4 -
Sedare38✭✭✭I'd also add that there's flare which give 10% mitigation on top of revealing and that the immobilize detect pots DON'T ACTUALLY PROTECT FROM ALL IMMOBILIZATIONS!!! Bombard spam and talons still root. Fix the detect pots, leave the range alone.
FIX Sentry so the buff immediately drops upon removing the 5th piece. Put Sentry back to the old version of 30% increase to detect range, but maybe make it 50% as a consolation prize for losing infinite detectg.
FIX blind cast curse.
FIX structured entropy garbage constantly pulling people out of stealth.
FIX Cloak so it can either negate dots again while in cloak AND/OR make it so when in the cloak duration you are immune to aoe initial hits but if a dot is already on you still take dot dmg. This way AOE spammers can't completely destroy you while you're using your core class mechanic to flee or get in close in the first place for the kill.
If this detect goes through, my Beta to present tenure in ESO is done and a lot of my guild will probably do the same.
And for those asking for cloak ramp cost, no. It's expensive and STAM builds need it and have maybe 3-5 casts of it back to back. Magicka builds have more but they also trade off--you know those things that used to be in the game to bring balance-- being able to dodge fewer times or block way less (if not using ice staff).8 -
DrNukenstein✭✭✭✭✭And you know, if they really wanted to make a change that would help newer players with out making stealth near unviable in mid to high mmr, they could just make detect skills like hunter and magelight let the user see through stealth in a 7 meter range for a number of seconds, or replace invisibility with detection on the alliance health pots. Those would be far more beneficial to the people who most often die to stealth cheese than giving coordinated teams the ability to create a permanent no stealth zone for 1k+ gold a minute by taking turns drinking detect pots.
Edited by DrNukenstein on April 28, 2023 9:57PM0 -
Kaysha✭✭✭✭yeah, ball groups will really start to make a beeline for crouching players. Not just NBs.
This would kill PvP for solo players completely.4 -
Traxxar✭✭The only 5m of detect for skill was far too little. Those needed a buff to be at least 10m as that allows some time to react.0
-
Galeriano✭✭✭✭✭
✭Why than should nightblade have similar thing informing him that someone used detect pot? If nightblade can suprise someone with stealth attack than other players deserve to suprise nightblade with detection.
Anyone HIDDEN can surprise someone with a stealth attack, not just a Nightblade.
Simply crouch and sneak around.
Come up behind someone and attack them.
This is not unique to nightblades.
ZOS made it so easy for ANY class to do that, by giving everyone the Vampire passives - Dark Stalker & Strike from the Shadows - which *SHOULD* be Nightblade passives instead of Vampire passives. They are why we've had Sorc ganker builds, Necor ganker builds, DK ganker builds, you name it.
But with the last few patches, the open world PvP that @ZOS_Kevin & @ZOS_GinaBruno now preside over is world of the Talentless Zerg:
1) You can be a Warden, a DK, a Sorc or a Templar. Doesn't matter. It's all the same.
2) Put on a crutch set like Mara's Balm, so healing is multiplied & you're auto-cleansing.
3) Put a resto staff on your back bar to gain infinitely stacking AoE heals like Rapid Regeneration.
4) Get in a big zerg. You don't have to be in an actual group because heals are all AoE and will stack infinitely.
5) Everyone stay close so everyone can stack cross-heals on each other.
6) Now - over & over again - everyone spam an AoE heal followed by a CC ability (stun, fear, immobilize) to build Ulti.
7) When you see others dumping their Ulti, you dump your Ulti too. 10, 20, 30, 40 of you all on single targets.
8) Repeat this simple rotation over & over & over and you too can Xv1 focus down any more skilled players, one by one.
9) It's amazing! It takes NO SKILL. Anyone can do it as a result of the last few patches!
You see, the vast majority of the time Nightblades are using cloak is not to sneak up on someone to gank them or bomb them, it is to get AWAY from the Talentless Zerg, .
People new to Nightblade learn very quickly that cloak doesn't help you get away from experienced PvP people that you try to gank. They will throw flares, they know which abilities now pull Nightblades out of stealth, and use 20m range detect pots.
Which leads me to the 10th rule of the Talentless Zerg:
10) If you're a poor Nightblade, the Talentless Zerg wants you to please just wear Sentry and either spam Acid Spray or be a healer.
Wait what? Sentry? Yes Sentry. A terrible set released by ZOS for no other purpose than to kill anyone hidden, not just Nightblades.
The talentless Nightblade in the Talentless Zerg simply wears Sentry and then when THEY crouch, EVERYONE on other factions that is hidden (not just nightblades) is instantly revealed, NO MATTER HOW FAR AWAY THEY ARE.
This awful set is already in the game. It already goes 100m or more. It has a shorter cooldown and a longer range than this new Detect potion. That is why this change to the Detect range is not necessary. All it does is make it so no one in the Talentless Zerg has to waste spots in their build to wearSentry. Now EVERYONE can wear two healing sets and do the Ulti-Build Shuffle!
The bottom line is that this change only benefits the Talentless Zerg, no one else. It is not needed. The Talentless Zerg can already spam flares, run Sentry, cast all kinds of abilities that now pull Nightblades out of cloak, etc. They don't need it but that ARE going to abuse it if this change goes through.
Because the ONLY thing that this change does is make it so no Nightblade can use a primary defensive class ability in their toolkit to get away from Xv1 combat and regain resources.
There is zero need to make this change. It makes this potion too powerful and exploitable and it eliminates all but one Nightblade play style in PvP, the brawling Healblade (i.e. everyone using ReactSlower's build).
Barely anyone other than maybe some archers is using crouch to gank people in PvP. It's almost PvE exclusive feature. In PvP You will be spotted too easily. You are moving way slower in crouch than in cloak and You can de detected way easier, people don't even need detection tools to see You they just need to come close to You, when cloak prevents You from being noticed if someone is not actively using detection tools. You also cannot easily reenter stealth though crouch. Fact that anyone can potentially perform stealth attack doesn't mean it's effective on any other class than nightblade and suprise, suprise it isn't. Seriously ask Yourself how many non nightblade gankers have You seen in PvP.Edited by Galeriano on April 28, 2023 10:44PM2 -
BlakMarket✭✭✭✭Cloak is the strongest skill in open world PVP, for new or bad players it might not feel that way but any skilled cloak blade can reset a fight even if detect pots are used.
Cloak should ramp up in cost, like streak dodge roll etc or I welcome these detect pot changes people forget, when using detect pots you lose either major endurance or intellect and one of the top 3 way to die in open world is not having enough sustain.5 -
Turtle_Bot✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭why should nightblades skills be countered anyway?
is there an universal counter to streak? fossilise? javelin? scorchs? blastbones?
ears wide open here
Any hard CC in the game counters every single ability mentioned there as for streak, fossilize and javelin, add immovability potions and skills to them too.
Bonus is, all of these are completely universal counters and all are useful against all classes and builds no matter what the meta is or becomes.1 -
kalunte✭✭✭✭✭Turtle_Bot wrote: »why should nightblades skills be countered anyway?
is there an universal counter to streak? fossilise? javelin? scorchs? blastbones?
ears wide open here
Any hard CC in the game counters every single ability mentioned there as for streak, fossilize and javelin, add immovability potions and skills to them too.
Bonus is, all of these are completely universal counters and all are useful against all classes and builds no matter what the meta is or becomes.
i could agree with you on that but you still takes dmg from javelin/streak and streak will move you anyway while fossilize just wont fire on someone who is immune to it (meaning you wont waste ressources on it) while you can spam your cloak and waste all of your magicka trying to use it when facing someone using a potion. just like assassin's will compared to molten whip:
one will lose its stacks and buffs when fired in void against a roller while the other will keep stacks and buffs until it hits.
i'm not saying nightblades are weak by themselves, the entire class is just unfairly managed since day 1.
A ramping cost on cloak would be great only if it gets fixed considering all off what unnecessarly breaks it (own dots, entropy, own procs, random aoes...)0 -
Turtle_Bot✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
I'm curious about this myself, did curse get changed into a ground (or air) targeted AoE or something that never got mentioned?
This thread is the first I've heard of it and there have been plenty of threads recently about invis that you would think it would have been mentioned in before now.
Imo, it's more than likely the sorc was using a detect pot or caught a glimpse of the NB for a second or 2 and got a curse off in that brief moment.
Another option is desyncs, where the other player sees the NB while the NB thinks they're invis because the servers are out of sync. Considering the amount of desync issues in the game currently, this option wouldn't surprise me either.2 -
Turtle_Bot✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Turtle_Bot wrote: »why should nightblades skills be countered anyway?
is there an universal counter to streak? fossilise? javelin? scorchs? blastbones?
ears wide open here
Any hard CC in the game counters every single ability mentioned there as for streak, fossilize and javelin, add immovability potions and skills to them too.
Bonus is, all of these are completely universal counters and all are useful against all classes and builds no matter what the meta is or becomes.
i could agree with you on that but you still takes dmg from javelin/streak and streak will move you anyway while fossilize just wont fire on someone who is immune to it (meaning you wont waste ressources on it) while you can spam your cloak and waste all of your magicka trying to use it when facing someone using a potion. just like assassin's will compared to molten whip:
one will lose its stacks and buffs when fired in void against a roller while the other will keep stacks and buffs until it hits.
i'm not saying nightblades are weak by themselves, the entire class is just unfairly managed since day 1.
A ramping cost on cloak would be great only if it gets fixed considering all off what unnecessarly breaks it (own dots, entropy, own procs, random aoes...)
Javelin and streaks damage are basically negligible (streak especially), 1 tick of a HoT heals it completely.
I would agree that cloak doesn't need a ramping cost if NB's other in class defensive options weren't also so strong.
But as it stands, NB has:
- second best burst heal in the game
- highest inherent passive movement speed in the game
- teleport that works through walls/floors + provides a DoT + maim (damage reduction)
- some of the strongest in class healing over time
- access to rare/unique defensive buffs such as major evasion, reduced dodge roll cost and more
This is on top of an invisibility ability that can be freely spammed with no cooldown (not to mention the offensive buffs the class has). This definitely requires some form of balancing, whether that's reducing the healing by a very large amount, or by adding a ramping cost to invis.
What NB currently has access to (in class) defensively is the equivalent to giving sorcerer, necro's entire defensive kit while also removing the ramping cost on streak. It's insanely overtuned, especially for those who know how to utilize it properly and don't just sit there crutching on invis alone like it's corrosive.
Also note, entropy seems like a bug, so it should be fixed at some point.
As for AoEs/your own procs/dots, those should always pull you out of stealth/invis.
They never used to pull you out of stealth and stealth even blocked the damage and it was crazy. NB could just sit in the middle of siege fire/storms/meteors and take no damage or even be revealed. If the class back then also had what it has now, it would have completely taken over the game.
Also, imagine if NB could just run around attacking everyone without ever breaking invis, that would be absurdly broken to the point that no-one would play any other class and the map would just be an empty field until you just suddenly dropped dead because the other NB had their detect skill/pot active and you didn't. No thanks, that would be far worse than any tank/range/whatever meta anyone could conceive.5 -
Jammy420✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yeeeeah, this is an absurd change. I do not like playing stealth classes myself, but this, this is ridiculous.
[Snip]
[Edited for Baiting]Edited by ZOS_Volpe on May 3, 2023 6:05PM2 -
Jammy420✭✭✭✭✭
✭Why than should nightblade have similar thing informing him that someone used detect pot? If nightblade can suprise someone with stealth attack than other players deserve to suprise nightblade with detection.
Anyone HIDDEN can surprise someone with a stealth attack, not just a Nightblade.
Simply crouch and sneak around.
Come up behind someone and attack them.
This is not unique to nightblades.
ZOS made it so easy for ANY class to do that, by giving everyone the Vampire passives - Dark Stalker & Strike from the Shadows - which *SHOULD* be Nightblade passives instead of Vampire passives. They are why we've had Sorc ganker builds, Necor ganker builds, DK ganker builds, you name it.
But with the last few patches, the open world PvP that @ZOS_Kevin & @ZOS_GinaBruno now preside over is world of the Talentless Zerg:
1) You can be a Warden, a DK, a Sorc or a Templar. Doesn't matter. It's all the same.
2) Put on a crutch set like Mara's Balm, so healing is multiplied & you're auto-cleansing.
3) Put a resto staff on your back bar to gain infinitely stacking AoE heals like Rapid Regeneration.
4) Get in a big zerg. You don't have to be in an actual group because heals are all AoE and will stack infinitely.
5) Everyone stay close so everyone can stack cross-heals on each other.
6) Now - over & over again - everyone spam an AoE heal followed by a CC ability (stun, fear, immobilize) to build Ulti.
7) When you see others dumping their Ulti, you dump your Ulti too. 10, 20, 30, 40 of you all on single targets.
8) Repeat this simple rotation over & over & over and you too can Xv1 focus down any more skilled players, one by one.
9) It's amazing! It takes NO SKILL. Anyone can do it as a result of the last few patches!
You see, the vast majority of the time Nightblades are using cloak is not to sneak up on someone to gank them or bomb them, it is to get AWAY from the Talentless Zerg, .
People new to Nightblade learn very quickly that cloak doesn't help you get away from experienced PvP people that you try to gank. They will throw flares, they know which abilities now pull Nightblades out of stealth, and use 20m range detect pots.
Which leads me to the 10th rule of the Talentless Zerg:
10) If you're a poor Nightblade, the Talentless Zerg wants you to please just wear Sentry and either spam Acid Spray or be a healer.
Wait what? Sentry? Yes Sentry. A terrible set released by ZOS for no other purpose than to kill anyone hidden, not just Nightblades.
The talentless Nightblade in the Talentless Zerg simply wears Sentry and then when THEY crouch, EVERYONE on other factions that is hidden (not just nightblades) is instantly revealed, NO MATTER HOW FAR AWAY THEY ARE.
This awful set is already in the game. It already goes 100m or more. It has a shorter cooldown and a longer range than this new Detect potion. That is why this change to the Detect range is not necessary. All it does is make it so no one in the Talentless Zerg has to waste spots in their build to wearSentry. Now EVERYONE can wear two healing sets and do the Ulti-Build Shuffle!
The bottom line is that this change only benefits the Talentless Zerg, no one else. It is not needed. The Talentless Zerg can already spam flares, run Sentry, cast all kinds of abilities that now pull Nightblades out of cloak, etc. They don't need it but that ARE going to abuse it if this change goes through.
Because the ONLY thing that this change does is make it so no Nightblade can use a primary defensive class ability in their toolkit to get away from Xv1 combat and regain resources.
There is zero need to make this change. It makes this potion too powerful and exploitable and it eliminates all but one Nightblade play style in PvP, the brawling Healblade (i.e. everyone using ReactSlower's build).
I had no idea those 2 were in charge of the pvp balance now. That really explains a lot, lol.Edited by Jammy420 on May 1, 2023 1:40PM2 -
dsalter✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭tbh this looks like someone accidentally hit an extra zero when increasing duration and reducing range.
PLEASE REPLY TO ME WITH @dsalter otherwise i'm likely to miss the reply if its not my own thread
EU - [Arch Mage Dave] Altmer Sorcerer
Fight back at the crates and boxes, together we can change things.0 -
alternatelder✭✭✭✭✭
✭Why than should nightblade have similar thing informing him that someone used detect pot? If nightblade can suprise someone with stealth attack than other players deserve to suprise nightblade with detection.
Anyone HIDDEN can surprise someone with a stealth attack, not just a Nightblade.
Simply crouch and sneak around.
Come up behind someone and attack them.
This is not unique to nightblades.
ZOS made it so easy for ANY class to do that, by giving everyone the Vampire passives - Dark Stalker & Strike from the Shadows - which *SHOULD* be Nightblade passives instead of Vampire passives. They are why we've had Sorc ganker builds, Necor ganker builds, DK ganker builds, you name it.
But with the last few patches, the open world PvP that @ZOS_Kevin & @ZOS_GinaBruno now preside over is world of the Talentless Zerg:
1) You can be a Warden, a DK, a Sorc or a Templar. Doesn't matter. It's all the same.
2) Put on a crutch set like Mara's Balm, so healing is multiplied & you're auto-cleansing.
3) Put a resto staff on your back bar to gain infinitely stacking AoE heals like Rapid Regeneration.
4) Get in a big zerg. You don't have to be in an actual group because heals are all AoE and will stack infinitely.
5) Everyone stay close so everyone can stack cross-heals on each other.
6) Now - over & over again - everyone spam an AoE heal followed by a CC ability (stun, fear, immobilize) to build Ulti.
7) When you see others dumping their Ulti, you dump your Ulti too. 10, 20, 30, 40 of you all on single targets.
8) Repeat this simple rotation over & over & over and you too can Xv1 focus down any more skilled players, one by one.
9) It's amazing! It takes NO SKILL. Anyone can do it as a result of the last few patches!
You see, the vast majority of the time Nightblades are using cloak is not to sneak up on someone to gank them or bomb them, it is to get AWAY from the Talentless Zerg, .
People new to Nightblade learn very quickly that cloak doesn't help you get away from experienced PvP people that you try to gank. They will throw flares, they know which abilities now pull Nightblades out of stealth, and use 20m range detect pots.
Which leads me to the 10th rule of the Talentless Zerg:
10) If you're a poor Nightblade, the Talentless Zerg wants you to please just wear Sentry and either spam Acid Spray or be a healer.
Wait what? Sentry? Yes Sentry. A terrible set released by ZOS for no other purpose than to kill anyone hidden, not just Nightblades.
The talentless Nightblade in the Talentless Zerg simply wears Sentry and then when THEY crouch, EVERYONE on other factions that is hidden (not just nightblades) is instantly revealed, NO MATTER HOW FAR AWAY THEY ARE.
This awful set is already in the game. It already goes 100m or more. It has a shorter cooldown and a longer range than this new Detect potion. That is why this change to the Detect range is not necessary. All it does is make it so no one in the Talentless Zerg has to waste spots in their build to wearSentry. Now EVERYONE can wear two healing sets and do the Ulti-Build Shuffle!
The bottom line is that this change only benefits the Talentless Zerg, no one else. It is not needed. The Talentless Zerg can already spam flares, run Sentry, cast all kinds of abilities that now pull Nightblades out of cloak, etc. They don't need it but that ARE going to abuse it if this change goes through.
Because the ONLY thing that this change does is make it so no Nightblade can use a primary defensive class ability in their toolkit to get away from Xv1 combat and regain resources.
There is zero need to make this change. It makes this potion too powerful and exploitable and it eliminates all but one Nightblade play style in PvP, the brawling Healblade (i.e. everyone using ReactSlower's build).
I had no idea those 2 were in charge of the pvp balance now. That really explains a lot, lol.
What?? This isn't true...is it? Where'd this come from?0 -
Navarril✭✭✭Since they seem to be going out of their way to ignore our questions about this, here's my theory: Nightblade, being one of the most popular classes in ESO gets the last remaining class identity stripped from it. The final nerf to the class, as we know it. ZOS may have calculated how many former nightblade players will be so disgusted that they'll switch their main gameplay to another class. With an expansion on the horizon, that class will be the OP Arcanist - which all those disgusted nightblades will have to pay for. tldr: this might be just one of many ways they're driving sales of Necrom.2
-
Artim_X✭✭✭✭✭
✭alternatelder wrote: »Why than should nightblade have similar thing informing him that someone used detect pot? If nightblade can suprise someone with stealth attack than other players deserve to suprise nightblade with detection.
Anyone HIDDEN can surprise someone with a stealth attack, not just a Nightblade.
Simply crouch and sneak around.
Come up behind someone and attack them.
This is not unique to nightblades.
ZOS made it so easy for ANY class to do that, by giving everyone the Vampire passives - Dark Stalker & Strike from the Shadows - which *SHOULD* be Nightblade passives instead of Vampire passives. They are why we've had Sorc ganker builds, Necor ganker builds, DK ganker builds, you name it.
But with the last few patches, the open world PvP that @ZOS_Kevin & @ZOS_GinaBruno now preside over is world of the Talentless Zerg:
1) You can be a Warden, a DK, a Sorc or a Templar. Doesn't matter. It's all the same.
2) Put on a crutch set like Mara's Balm, so healing is multiplied & you're auto-cleansing.
3) Put a resto staff on your back bar to gain infinitely stacking AoE heals like Rapid Regeneration.
4) Get in a big zerg. You don't have to be in an actual group because heals are all AoE and will stack infinitely.
5) Everyone stay close so everyone can stack cross-heals on each other.
6) Now - over & over again - everyone spam an AoE heal followed by a CC ability (stun, fear, immobilize) to build Ulti.
7) When you see others dumping their Ulti, you dump your Ulti too. 10, 20, 30, 40 of you all on single targets.
8) Repeat this simple rotation over & over & over and you too can Xv1 focus down any more skilled players, one by one.
9) It's amazing! It takes NO SKILL. Anyone can do it as a result of the last few patches!
You see, the vast majority of the time Nightblades are using cloak is not to sneak up on someone to gank them or bomb them, it is to get AWAY from the Talentless Zerg, .
People new to Nightblade learn very quickly that cloak doesn't help you get away from experienced PvP people that you try to gank. They will throw flares, they know which abilities now pull Nightblades out of stealth, and use 20m range detect pots.
Which leads me to the 10th rule of the Talentless Zerg:
10) If you're a poor Nightblade, the Talentless Zerg wants you to please just wear Sentry and either spam Acid Spray or be a healer.
Wait what? Sentry? Yes Sentry. A terrible set released by ZOS for no other purpose than to kill anyone hidden, not just Nightblades.
The talentless Nightblade in the Talentless Zerg simply wears Sentry and then when THEY crouch, EVERYONE on other factions that is hidden (not just nightblades) is instantly revealed, NO MATTER HOW FAR AWAY THEY ARE.
This awful set is already in the game. It already goes 100m or more. It has a shorter cooldown and a longer range than this new Detect potion. That is why this change to the Detect range is not necessary. All it does is make it so no one in the Talentless Zerg has to waste spots in their build to wearSentry. Now EVERYONE can wear two healing sets and do the Ulti-Build Shuffle!
The bottom line is that this change only benefits the Talentless Zerg, no one else. It is not needed. The Talentless Zerg can already spam flares, run Sentry, cast all kinds of abilities that now pull Nightblades out of cloak, etc. They don't need it but that ARE going to abuse it if this change goes through.
Because the ONLY thing that this change does is make it so no Nightblade can use a primary defensive class ability in their toolkit to get away from Xv1 combat and regain resources.
There is zero need to make this change. It makes this potion too powerful and exploitable and it eliminates all but one Nightblade play style in PvP, the brawling Healblade (i.e. everyone using ReactSlower's build).
I had no idea those 2 were in charge of the pvp balance now. That really explains a lot, lol.
What?? This isn't true...is it? Where'd this come from?
One is an admin, while the other is a community manager. I highly doubt they are responsible for gameplay changes.(AD) Artim X/Xirtām/Måtrix |PC/NA| Casual staff wielding vampire sorcerer/templar/arcanistElectric-Burn/Stunhttps://media.giphy.com/media/Av0zcKH3i2BkaY1GXW/giphy.gif/https://c.tenor.com/jQHdFftrgwMAAAAC/tenor.gifElectric-Heal- Damage Dealing Build.
- Gear: 5 Infallible Aether (All apparel light and Divines with Max Mag Enchants), 1 Slimecraw Guise for max spell critical (Divines, light, Max Mag Enchants), Maelstrom's Perfected Inferno/Lightning Staff (infused/shock enchant), and Rage of the Ursauk jewelry (bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant)/lightning staff (infused/flame/weapon damage enchant). 1 Mora's Whispers.
- Ability-Bar 1: Critical Surge, Boundless Storm, Mages' Wrath, Lightning Flood, Twilight Tormentor (Twilight Matriarch for solo roleplay variant of build), and Power Overload.
- Ability-Bar 2: Crushing Shock/Storm Pulsar, Streak, Flame/Shock Reach, Unstable Wall of Fire/Storms, Twilight Tormentor (Twilight Matriarch for solo roleplay variant of build) and Fiery/Thunderous Rage.
https://media.giphy.com/media/5ibGIHneWS6ek/giphy.gifElectric-Ward- My Healer Build.
- Gear: 5 Spell Power Cure (All apparel light and Divines with Max Mag Enchants), 1 Slimecraw Guise for max spell critical (Divines, light, Max Mag Enchants), Maelstrom's Perfected Lightning Staff (Charged/shock enchant), and Infallible Aether jewelry (arcane with spell damage enchant)/restoration staff (Powered with absorb magicka enchant). 1 Mora's Whispers.
- Ability-Bar 1: Power Surge, Boundless Storm, Blessing of Restoration, Energy Orb, Twilight Matriarch, and Replenishing Barrier.
- Ability-Bar 2: Dark Deal, Overflowing Altar, Elemental Drain, Blockade of Storms, Twilight Matriarch, and Aggressive Horn.
https://media.giphy.com/media/Wa0TGmtDvwW3e/giphy.gifElectric-Vamp- My Meme Tank Build that uses high resistance and variety of wards.
- Gear: 5 Brands of Imperium (All body pieces except Head and Shoulders, with Divine trait, and with Prismatic Defense Enchants), full Mother Ciannait's (1 light and 1 medium. Divines and Max Mag Enchant), and Combat Physician jewelry (bloodthirsty with Prismatic Recovery Enchants), CP restoration staff (Infused with hardening enchant), and CP ice staff (Infused with crusher enchant).
- Ability-Bar 1: Critical Surge, Bound Aegis, Deep Thoughts, Boundless Storm, Healing Ward, and Replenishing Barrier.
- Ability-Bar 2: Silver Leash (Elemental Drain if healer isn't running it), Bound Aegis, Frost Clench, Blockade of Frost, Empowered Ward, and Temporal Guard.
https://media.giphy.com/media/ukDQiYZzRAxMZKcK86/giphy.gifDawnfang- Tanky stage 4 vampire utility focused PvP healer that can take down very inexperienced players but is primarily focused on working alongside others in an organized group, PUGs, or zergs.
- Gear: 5 Torug's Pact for regular and NoCP build/Oblivion's Foe for dot build (medium chest and body pieces light. All Impenetrable. Max Mag Enchants). Gaze of Sithis and 1 light Mighty Chudan/Pirate Skeleton (light shoulders, and impenetrable with Max Mag Enchants). Knight Slayer/Pariah jewelry/Plaguebreak for dot build (bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant)/lightning staff (infused with oblivion enchant for regular and noCP build/absorb magicka enchant and Sharpened for dot build. Sharpened for dot build)/restoration staff (infused with oblivion enchant regular and noCP build/absorb magicka enchant and Sharpened for dot build).
- Ability-Bar 1: Structured Entropy, Boundless Storm, Soul Splitting Trap, Radiating Regeneration, Healing Ward, and Life Giver.
- Ability-Bar 2: Drain Vigor (Elemental Susceptibility), Race Against Time, Rune Cage, Radiant Magelight, Empowered Ward, and Shatter Soul.
https://media.tenor.com/ogWfvDdsqBIAAAAd/anime-black-clover.gifDuskfang- My casual one bar heavy attack Templar build that only utilizes Aedric Spear abilities.
- Gear: 5 Infallible Aether (Head or Shoulder and body pieces except Chest. All body pieces Divines with Max Mag Enchants), 1 Slimecraw Guise for max spell critical (Divines, light, Max Mag Enchant), Lightning Staff of the Sergeant (Infused/shock enchant), and Sergeant's Mail jewelry (One Ring and one Neck. Both bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant). 1 Oakensoul Ring (bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant).
- Ability-Bar 1: Puncturing Sweep, Aurora Javelin, Toppling Charge, Blazing Spear, Radiant Ward, and Crescent Sweep.
https://media.tenor.com/Jo8aG_ouy_oAAAAd/ac-odyssey.gifPvE Starter Gear- Tanky stage 4 vampire utility focused PvP healer that can take down very inexperienced players but is primarily focused on working alongside others in an organized group, PUGs, or zergs.
- Gear: 5 Torug's Pact (Heavy Chest with light Head, Waist, Hands, and Feet. All body pieces Impenetrable. Health enchant on head and everything else Magicka Enchants), 1 Medium Mighty Chudan/Pirate Skeleton Shoulder (Impenetrable, Max Health Enchant), Knight Slayer Restoration Staff (Infused/Decrease Health enchant/Stealth-Draining Poison IX), and Knight Slayer jewelry (One Ring and one Neck. Both bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant). 1 Oakensoul Ring (bloodthirsty with Spell Damage Enchant).
- Ability-Bar 1:Radiant Oppression, Race Against Time, Aurora Javelin, Breath of Life, Resolving Vigor, and Life Giver (Shatter Soul).
https://media.giphy.com/media/6CovzgyTig7M4/giphy.gifRace- Gear: 5 Law of Julianos (heavy chest, gloves/belt light, and the rest can be light or 1 medium piece if you're not wearing medium anywhere else on your body. All in training if grinding for XP or divines), Armor of the Seducer or Magnus' Gift head, shoulder, and staves (light with 1 medium piece if you are not already wearing 1 medium Julianos piece. All in training or divines. The staves should be training or infused), and 3 purple Willpower Jewelry with Arcane trait (can be bought from trading guilds for relatively cheap.
- Check tamrieltradecentre.com for the best deals if you're not using a price checking addon).
https://media.giphy.com/media/sdEkeWpiaGz0A/giphy.gifMundus Stones- High elf, since you will not have issues with sustain, but other mag based races are also fine so this is more of a personal choice.
https://media.giphy.com/media/cT3wMhLGQWdKU/giphy.gifCurrent Champion Points- PvP: The Lover for penetration when playing a sorc or temp.
- PvE Healing/Damage: The Thief for decent crit rate.
- PvE Tanking: The Lady to get close to resistance cap.
https://media.giphy.com/media/l4FGDAx6u3hthMhgI/giphy.gifFavorite Foods and Potions- DPS Sorc: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Exploiter, Weapons Expert, Biting Aura, Thaumaturge, Celerity, Rejuvenation, Fortified, Boundless Vitality.
- Healer Sorc: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Enlivening Overflow, Hope Infusion, Weapon's Expert, Arcane Supremacy, Celerity, Rejuvenation, Fortified, Boundless Vitality.
- Tanky Sorc: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Ironclad, Enduring Resolve, Reinforced, Duelist's Rebuff, Bastion, Ward Master, Rejuvenation, Fortified.
- PvP Sorc: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Enlivening Overflow, Weapon's Expert, Occult Overload, Arcane Supremacy, Bastion, Rejuvenation, Fortified, Boundless Vitality.
- PvE Temp: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Fighting Finesse, Master-at-Arms, Weapons Expert, Biting Aura, Celerity, Rejuvenation, Fortified, Boundless Vitality.
- PvP Temp: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Enlivening Overflow, Weapon's Expert, From the Brink, Arcane Supremacy, Celerity, Rejuvenation, Fortified, Boundless Vitality.
https://media.giphy.com/media/3otPoTggaYFNd1FdAI/giphy.gif- Parse Food for PvE:(DPS) Ghastly Eye Bowl (increases Max Magicka by 4592 and Magicka Recovery by 459 for 2 hours).
- Gold/Purple Food for Sorc PvP and Meme Tanking:(PvP) Clockwork Citrus Filet (increases Max Health by 3326, Health Recovery by 406 [useful if stage 1 vampire], Max Magicka by 3080, and Magicka Recovery by 338 for 2 hours). Witchmother's Potent Brew (Increase Max Magicka by 2856, Max Health by 3094, and Magicka Recovery by 315 for 2 hours.
- Trash Potions when feeling cheap: Regular CP150 Essence of Magicka pots that I obtain frequently from playing the game or Crown Tri-Restoration Potion obtained from dailies.
- Crafted Potions: Essence of Spell Critical (Bugloss, Lady's Smock, and Water Hyacinth). Without magelight this is my primary means of obtaining Major Prophecy on my Sorc, which increases my Spell Critical Rating. This also heals and restores magicka. Essence of Immovability (Columbine, Corn Flower, and Wormwood). I use this in PvP, since this gives me stealth detection, knockback immunity, and restores magicka (better to use it when competent allies are nearby, since it might reveal that you are surrounded by multiple players in stealth and you will not have an emergency pot available after use). Essence of Invisibility with only 2 ingredients (Blue Entoloma, Namira's Rot, Nirnroot, or Spider Egg). I use this in PvE content that requires stealth and if I need more speed I'll use Rapid Maneuver before using the potion. Essence of Invisibility with 3 ingredients (Blessed Thistle, Blue Entoloma, and Namira's Rot). Very useful in PvP alongside the vampire Dark Stalker passive, since you'll be invisible, ignore movement speed penalty while in Crouch, and you'll have a 30% movement speed boost from Major Expedition (I always have this slotted when riding from point A to B in PvP land, since gankers are always lurking). My templar will mostly use Essence of Health (Tri-Stat Potion) Ingredients: (Mountain Flower, Columbine, and Bugloss).
0 -
alternatelder✭✭✭✭✭
✭alternatelder wrote: »Why than should nightblade have similar thing informing him that someone used detect pot? If nightblade can suprise someone with stealth attack than other players deserve to suprise nightblade with detection.
Anyone HIDDEN can surprise someone with a stealth attack, not just a Nightblade.
Simply crouch and sneak around.
Come up behind someone and attack them.
This is not unique to nightblades.
ZOS made it so easy for ANY class to do that, by giving everyone the Vampire passives - Dark Stalker & Strike from the Shadows - which *SHOULD* be Nightblade passives instead of Vampire passives. They are why we've had Sorc ganker builds, Necor ganker builds, DK ganker builds, you name it.
But with the last few patches, the open world PvP that @ZOS_Kevin & @ZOS_GinaBruno now preside over is world of the Talentless Zerg:
1) You can be a Warden, a DK, a Sorc or a Templar. Doesn't matter. It's all the same.
2) Put on a crutch set like Mara's Balm, so healing is multiplied & you're auto-cleansing.
3) Put a resto staff on your back bar to gain infinitely stacking AoE heals like Rapid Regeneration.
4) Get in a big zerg. You don't have to be in an actual group because heals are all AoE and will stack infinitely.
5) Everyone stay close so everyone can stack cross-heals on each other.
6) Now - over & over again - everyone spam an AoE heal followed by a CC ability (stun, fear, immobilize) to build Ulti.
7) When you see others dumping their Ulti, you dump your Ulti too. 10, 20, 30, 40 of you all on single targets.
8) Repeat this simple rotation over & over & over and you too can Xv1 focus down any more skilled players, one by one.
9) It's amazing! It takes NO SKILL. Anyone can do it as a result of the last few patches!
You see, the vast majority of the time Nightblades are using cloak is not to sneak up on someone to gank them or bomb them, it is to get AWAY from the Talentless Zerg, .
People new to Nightblade learn very quickly that cloak doesn't help you get away from experienced PvP people that you try to gank. They will throw flares, they know which abilities now pull Nightblades out of stealth, and use 20m range detect pots.
Which leads me to the 10th rule of the Talentless Zerg:
10) If you're a poor Nightblade, the Talentless Zerg wants you to please just wear Sentry and either spam Acid Spray or be a healer.
Wait what? Sentry? Yes Sentry. A terrible set released by ZOS for no other purpose than to kill anyone hidden, not just Nightblades.
The talentless Nightblade in the Talentless Zerg simply wears Sentry and then when THEY crouch, EVERYONE on other factions that is hidden (not just nightblades) is instantly revealed, NO MATTER HOW FAR AWAY THEY ARE.
This awful set is already in the game. It already goes 100m or more. It has a shorter cooldown and a longer range than this new Detect potion. That is why this change to the Detect range is not necessary. All it does is make it so no one in the Talentless Zerg has to waste spots in their build to wearSentry. Now EVERYONE can wear two healing sets and do the Ulti-Build Shuffle!
The bottom line is that this change only benefits the Talentless Zerg, no one else. It is not needed. The Talentless Zerg can already spam flares, run Sentry, cast all kinds of abilities that now pull Nightblades out of cloak, etc. They don't need it but that ARE going to abuse it if this change goes through.
Because the ONLY thing that this change does is make it so no Nightblade can use a primary defensive class ability in their toolkit to get away from Xv1 combat and regain resources.
There is zero need to make this change. It makes this potion too powerful and exploitable and it eliminates all but one Nightblade play style in PvP, the brawling Healblade (i.e. everyone using ReactSlower's build).
I had no idea those 2 were in charge of the pvp balance now. That really explains a lot, lol.
What?? This isn't true...is it? Where'd this come from?
One is an admin, while the other is a community manager. I highly doubt they are responsible for gameplay changes.
I know who they are, but why is the quoted person claiming this?
0 -
Vulkunne✭✭✭✭✭
✭Since they seem to be going out of their way to ignore our questions about this, here's my theory: Nightblade, being one of the most popular classes in ESO gets the last remaining class identity stripped from it. The final nerf to the class, as we know it. ZOS may have calculated how many former nightblade players will be so disgusted that they'll switch their main gameplay to another class. With an expansion on the horizon, that class will be the OP Arcanist - which all those disgusted nightblades will have to pay for. tldr: this might be just one of many ways they're driving sales of Necrom.
This is why for the life of me I don't understand why they don't offer a class change token. Get results fast and have people paying for it too.2 -
Vulkunne✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'd also add that there's flare which give 10% mitigation on top of revealing and that the immobilize detect pots DON'T ACTUALLY PROTECT FROM ALL IMMOBILIZATIONS!!! Bombard spam and talons still root. Fix the detect pots, leave the range alone.
FIX Sentry so the buff immediately drops upon removing the 5th piece. Put Sentry back to the old version of 30% increase to detect range, but maybe make it 50% as a consolation prize for losing infinite detectg.
FIX blind cast curse.
FIX structured entropy garbage constantly pulling people out of stealth.
FIX Cloak so it can either negate dots again while in cloak AND/OR make it so when in the cloak duration you are immune to aoe initial hits but if a dot is already on you still take dot dmg. This way AOE spammers can't completely destroy you while you're using your core class mechanic to flee or get in close in the first place for the kill.
If this detect goes through, my Beta to present tenure in ESO is done and a lot of my guild will probably do the same.
And for those asking for cloak ramp cost, no. It's expensive and STAM builds need it and have maybe 3-5 casts of it back to back. Magicka builds have more but they also trade off--you know those things that used to be in the game to bring balance-- being able to dodge fewer times or block way less (if not using ice staff).
On second thought why then do we need both Sentry and this? Sentry is broken and is a borderline exploit because you can just remove it. I say one or the other however long term all of this is just not going to work because none of it is balanced.
We need to start this process by respecting the cloak/invisibility functionality. Anything that functions similar to an exploit (negating balance), will not just harm bombers and gankers and so forth... anyone who casually uses Invisibility is going to be frustrated by this, including anyone not particularly skilled at PvP using Invisibility as an 'escape' which is a legitimate tactic. But now they are throwing all these people under a bus.
If it were me doing this we need to start by establishing a fundamental use case for all game play types involved here. Look at the ganker, the bomber, the casual NB, the PvP quester trying to hide from the world and others using Cloak to escape from a situation. Having one set, Sentry or one part with virtually an unlimited detection range isn't really the answer. Yeah I see why they want to do it this way but this is a global approach to circumstances that are all different yet related to one another thru invisibility. That does not mean they all weigh the same.
Using all these global procedures makes it seem like someone is trying to meet a deadline instead of taking more time to do this the right way and it really demonstrates a lack of real understanding as far as how invisibility really works and how to tackle perceived 'problems' with it in the code, among other problems that might arise. It really feels rushed and I wish you guys would take a step back and look at this again maybe after Necrom comes out. The main problem is your trying to FORCE a policy change by using global functions instead of hashing this out on a whiteboard and understanding underlying relations between invisibility use and balancing your change against existing mechanisms intended to balance detection. This global approach blows everything away and produces a gap because you have too many detect or invisibility mechanisms now that are just simply not required anymore.
Sentry 5pc set as is and this 100m thing are bad for the game. For example why make it 100m why not 1000? Why not 1,000,000? Do you see what I'm saying? (I know I'm a PvPer so no one will listen to me) Same with Sentry... people use it and the swap it for something else. That behavior is not realistic and is pretty much an exploit in and of itself. Why not make Sentry more interesting to fix this?Edited by Vulkunne on May 1, 2023 9:27PM0 -
FantasticFreddie✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Nothing in the patch notes this week either.... someone besides me check last week's again, I didn't see this change there but maybe I just missed it somehow....1 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭FantasticFreddie wrote: »Nothing in the patch notes this week either.... someone besides me check last week's again, I didn't see this change there but maybe I just missed it somehow....
We will get info when last patch before release date will come. And ZOS will be "surprised", but nevertheless this change will go live for few months, and they will be working on "fix" while all will be buying Necrom to play arcanist.
Then when sales limit will be reached "fix" will drop and everything will be as usual. Just without thousands of NB mains who left the game because of this.Say no to Toxic Casuals!
I am doing my best, but I am not a native speaker, sorry.
"Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game." - @AlexanderDeLarge2 -
DrNukenstein✭✭✭✭✭Detect range is still 100 meters on PTS. No word on it despite all the heat on this controversial change/bug.
At best it's a bug that will be fixed before the patch goes live
Possibly they're differentiating stealth and invisible and making it only apply to crouch stealth, which wouldn't be so bad unless you're a solo/small scall player who depends on crouch in order to exist in IC or Cyrodil.
Odds are though it's another dubious attempt to eliminate a fun and niche play style. Extra lame if they're just trying to sneak it in there like the Calu nerf and crushing weapon removing stealth.2
