Essence Of Detection range on PTS???

Brrrofski

I don't care about this game anymore so I don't care about this change.

All I'll say is, good NBs know how to stay alive without cloak.

And majority of players don't use detect pots. I value regens more from tri pots. Most other people do.

BlueRaven

Galeriano wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

DrNukenstein wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

It's not completly destroying a class though.

It does destroy a class in team BGs when a coordinated team can take turns drinking potions to shutdown stealth with 100% up time.

IIRC, detect pots share their detect with all team mates.

Against coordinated groups it's another tool for them to flex their communication diff, and in those situations it will be absolutely brutal to play through if you are a stealth player.

Solo players who aren't looking for fights depend on stealth to get around in cyrodil in IC for their non PVP reasons. This empowers large groups to hunt them down and run them over, which they probably will.

That such a significant potential change has no explanation either in the forums or in the patch notes is absurd. Next to Arcanist and the permablock greaves, this is the most significant change to the game for PVP coming next patch. Some players might say this is even more significant than Arcanist based on what they've seen of the class on PTS.

And this leads to another consequence of this change. Everyone likes Tel Var stones, and everyone has found themselves in a situation where they have a lot of them on them. Now imagine how easy it will be to bring Tel Var stones to the home base, knowing that there is no real possibility of hiding.

And you know what the consequence of this will be? You like Hakeijo for 80k (today's prices from PC EU per piece), well, I hope you'll like them for 200k per piece.

Edit:
Typo

Or people will actually start to visit IC more knowing that now nightblades won't be most favoured class there.

I would visit it less. I just want to get the quest done and gtfo. I use stealth because all of the unkillable pvp monster players. Staying out of sight is my only choice.

In the context of tel vars that really doesn't matter. Less nightblades in IC equals more other classes there. Many people don't visit that place and refuses to farm tel vars specifically because of how big adventage nightblades have there.

Do you think once all players can see each other pvp will just stop?

Also, a nb can only attack what they can see.

Stealth is an offensive and defensive tool. “No stealth” strips defenses away from players who do not wish to fight other players.

Stealth was a defense against all attackers. No stealth makes ic more dangerous as there are less, basically zero, places to hide.

Galeriano

Mayrael wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

DrNukenstein wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

It's not completly destroying a class though.

It does destroy a class in team BGs when a coordinated team can take turns drinking potions to shutdown stealth with 100% up time.

IIRC, detect pots share their detect with all team mates.

Against coordinated groups it's another tool for them to flex their communication diff, and in those situations it will be absolutely brutal to play through if you are a stealth player.

Solo players who aren't looking for fights depend on stealth to get around in cyrodil in IC for their non PVP reasons. This empowers large groups to hunt them down and run them over, which they probably will.

That such a significant potential change has no explanation either in the forums or in the patch notes is absurd. Next to Arcanist and the permablock greaves, this is the most significant change to the game for PVP coming next patch. Some players might say this is even more significant than Arcanist based on what they've seen of the class on PTS.

And this leads to another consequence of this change. Everyone likes Tel Var stones, and everyone has found themselves in a situation where they have a lot of them on them. Now imagine how easy it will be to bring Tel Var stones to the home base, knowing that there is no real possibility of hiding.

And you know what the consequence of this will be? You like Hakeijo for 80k (today's prices from PC EU per piece), well, I hope you'll like them for 200k per piece.

Edit:
Typo

Or people will actually start to visit IC more knowing that now nightblades won't be most favoured class there.

All I need to do now is to chug potions with glyphs reducing potion cool down, running on my old sorc and no newbie can be safe there. You can't run from me, you can't hide from me. Ez tel vars. If something goes wrong, I'll just port behind a corner. Good luck catching me

Well than You are sacrificing lots of stats from traits end anchantments and some other effects from different potion to counter one specific playstyle. Your damage or/and sustain will be noticably weaker because of that and You will be in disadventage against everyone who isn't a nightblade. Sounds like a fair tradeoff.

Galeriano

BlueRaven wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

DrNukenstein wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

It's not completly destroying a class though.

It does destroy a class in team BGs when a coordinated team can take turns drinking potions to shutdown stealth with 100% up time.

IIRC, detect pots share their detect with all team mates.

Against coordinated groups it's another tool for them to flex their communication diff, and in those situations it will be absolutely brutal to play through if you are a stealth player.

Solo players who aren't looking for fights depend on stealth to get around in cyrodil in IC for their non PVP reasons. This empowers large groups to hunt them down and run them over, which they probably will.

That such a significant potential change has no explanation either in the forums or in the patch notes is absurd. Next to Arcanist and the permablock greaves, this is the most significant change to the game for PVP coming next patch. Some players might say this is even more significant than Arcanist based on what they've seen of the class on PTS.

And this leads to another consequence of this change. Everyone likes Tel Var stones, and everyone has found themselves in a situation where they have a lot of them on them. Now imagine how easy it will be to bring Tel Var stones to the home base, knowing that there is no real possibility of hiding.

And you know what the consequence of this will be? You like Hakeijo for 80k (today's prices from PC EU per piece), well, I hope you'll like them for 200k per piece.

Edit:
Typo

Or people will actually start to visit IC more knowing that now nightblades won't be most favoured class there.

I would visit it less. I just want to get the quest done and gtfo. I use stealth because all of the unkillable pvp monster players. Staying out of sight is my only choice.

In the context of tel vars that really doesn't matter. Less nightblades in IC equals more other classes there. Many people don't visit that place and refuses to farm tel vars specifically because of how big adventage nightblades have there.

Do you think once all players can see each other pvp will just stop?

Also, a nb can only attack what they can see.

Stealth is an offensive and defensive tool. “No stealth” strips defenses away from players who do not wish to fight other players.

Stealth was a defense against all attackers. No stealth makes ic more dangerous as there are less, basically zero, places to hide.

The conversation was about tel vars gains. Many people don't farm tel vars and don't visit IC because they don't like the idea to run for some time farming tel vars just to be one shoted by a ganker nightblade. This is what drives many people away from IC. Some people just don't like unfair treatment and fact that when everyone needs to play high risk high reward type of playstyle nightblade can play low risk high rewards playstyle is simply distastefull for many players.

And that argument about stripping the defense from people who don't want to fight. First of all why do You come to PvP if You don't want to fight, second of all why is only one class allowed to do that to such an extent. Why is necro, warden, DK, tremplar and in big part sorc not allowed to not fight when they see enemies and they don't wish to fight?

Also in IC in particular nightblades will still have their adventages. Most districts are full of line of sight options and proper use of shadow image and cloak will let You back off from most of the encounters anyway.

BlueRaven

Galeriano wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

DrNukenstein wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

It's not completly destroying a class though.

It does destroy a class in team BGs when a coordinated team can take turns drinking potions to shutdown stealth with 100% up time.

IIRC, detect pots share their detect with all team mates.

Against coordinated groups it's another tool for them to flex their communication diff, and in those situations it will be absolutely brutal to play through if you are a stealth player.

Solo players who aren't looking for fights depend on stealth to get around in cyrodil in IC for their non PVP reasons. This empowers large groups to hunt them down and run them over, which they probably will.

That such a significant potential change has no explanation either in the forums or in the patch notes is absurd. Next to Arcanist and the permablock greaves, this is the most significant change to the game for PVP coming next patch. Some players might say this is even more significant than Arcanist based on what they've seen of the class on PTS.

And this leads to another consequence of this change. Everyone likes Tel Var stones, and everyone has found themselves in a situation where they have a lot of them on them. Now imagine how easy it will be to bring Tel Var stones to the home base, knowing that there is no real possibility of hiding.

And you know what the consequence of this will be? You like Hakeijo for 80k (today's prices from PC EU per piece), well, I hope you'll like them for 200k per piece.

Edit:
Typo

Or people will actually start to visit IC more knowing that now nightblades won't be most favoured class there.

I would visit it less. I just want to get the quest done and gtfo. I use stealth because all of the unkillable pvp monster players. Staying out of sight is my only choice.

In the context of tel vars that really doesn't matter. Less nightblades in IC equals more other classes there. Many people don't visit that place and refuses to farm tel vars specifically because of how big adventage nightblades have there.

Do you think once all players can see each other pvp will just stop?

Also, a nb can only attack what they can see.

Stealth is an offensive and defensive tool. “No stealth” strips defenses away from players who do not wish to fight other players.

Stealth was a defense against all attackers. No stealth makes ic more dangerous as there are less, basically zero, places to hide.

The conversation was about tel vars gains. Many people don't farm tel vars and don't visit IC because they don't like the idea to run for some time farming tel vars just to be one shoted by a ganker nightblade. This is what drives many people away from IC. Some people just don't like unfair treatment and fact that when everyone needs to play high risk high reward type of playstyle nightblade can play low risk high rewards playstyle is simply distastefull for many players.

No, pvp in general is what drives people away from ic.

It does not matter to me if I get killed by a nb, or a sorc, or a dk. I don’t want to engage in pvp at all. I stealth past everything anyway, just to get the quest objective then stealth past everything to turn the quest in. Engaging in combat = chance of getting attacked by another player, regardless of class.

And my original comment specifically was about “getting a quest done and gtfo”. I am not interested in telvar, I have so much banked from just log in rewards alone.

Galeriano

umagon wrote: »

Seeing that this hasn’t changed with the current patch I have questions. Why wasn’t this in the patch notes? And why make something that targets one class specifically? I mean someone had to spend time to script the change.
From: https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/classes

“Attack from the shadows, drain your foes' health, and vanish into the void with the Nightblade Class. The shadows truly are your greatest weapon as you wield abilities that deal devastating damage at any range and siphon your victim's lifeforce to your allies. Available with The Elder Scrolls Online base game.
As a Nightblade, all of Tamriel fears your deadly unseen strike.”

What I don’t understand is if this the intended playstyle for the class why every other patch there more mechanics created to completely destroy that playstyle. So, do the devs now feel that the class should no longer be a good rogue archetype? I see they don’t want it to be competitive at end game tanking; and now what no longer being a rogue archetype.

So what is the nightblade class supposed to be masters of?

Oh yeah so if You are not able to kill everything and run away from every tricky situation than suddenly You are not a good class and You don't fit a rogue archetype.

Mayrael

Galeriano wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

DrNukenstein wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

It's not completly destroying a class though.

It does destroy a class in team BGs when a coordinated team can take turns drinking potions to shutdown stealth with 100% up time.

IIRC, detect pots share their detect with all team mates.

Against coordinated groups it's another tool for them to flex their communication diff, and in those situations it will be absolutely brutal to play through if you are a stealth player.

Solo players who aren't looking for fights depend on stealth to get around in cyrodil in IC for their non PVP reasons. This empowers large groups to hunt them down and run them over, which they probably will.

That such a significant potential change has no explanation either in the forums or in the patch notes is absurd. Next to Arcanist and the permablock greaves, this is the most significant change to the game for PVP coming next patch. Some players might say this is even more significant than Arcanist based on what they've seen of the class on PTS.

And this leads to another consequence of this change. Everyone likes Tel Var stones, and everyone has found themselves in a situation where they have a lot of them on them. Now imagine how easy it will be to bring Tel Var stones to the home base, knowing that there is no real possibility of hiding.

And you know what the consequence of this will be? You like Hakeijo for 80k (today's prices from PC EU per piece), well, I hope you'll like them for 200k per piece.

Edit:
Typo

Or people will actually start to visit IC more knowing that now nightblades won't be most favoured class there.

All I need to do now is to chug potions with glyphs reducing potion cool down, running on my old sorc and no newbie can be safe there. You can't run from me, you can't hide from me. Ez tel vars. If something goes wrong, I'll just port behind a corner. Good luck catching me

Well than You are sacrificing lots of stats from traits end anchantments and some other effects from different potion to counter one specific playstyle. Your damage or/and sustain will be noticably weaker because of that and You will be in disadventage against everyone who isn't a nightblade. Sounds like a fair tradeoff.

Lol no I wont. Beside of having almost 100% uptime on detection, I can have around 70% uptime on cc immunity and still have magicka recovery (detection potion, cc immunity and magicka pot which I am already using on live) plus being argonian is more than enough when it goes to sustain, also having very high uptime on cc immunity reduces by a lot my need for stamina, AND EVEN IF I would get low I would be using dark deal to get minor berserk and force anyway, AND EVEN IF it would be a problem with 20s cooldown on potion I can just swap to tristat and then use my detection potion to have all buffs up at the same time, potions are way more flexible than sets because I can swap them during combat acordingly to situation. And still I can use any sets I want. I dont have to have perfect stats, few hundreds of spell/weapon damage doesnt matter its just a fraction of damage, but I get unstoppable build in return which is more than enough to get any newbie. Even if I would get into trouble, who cares? Did you ever tried to catch sorc in IC? You need whole coordinated group with very fast builds to even try. As a matter of fact, the only ones who will be able to escape my build will be other sorcs.

BlueRaven

I just realized if this is an actual change, then wood elf race passives are even more worthless.

Galeriano

Mayrael wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

DrNukenstein wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

It's not completly destroying a class though.

It does destroy a class in team BGs when a coordinated team can take turns drinking potions to shutdown stealth with 100% up time.

IIRC, detect pots share their detect with all team mates.

Against coordinated groups it's another tool for them to flex their communication diff, and in those situations it will be absolutely brutal to play through if you are a stealth player.

Solo players who aren't looking for fights depend on stealth to get around in cyrodil in IC for their non PVP reasons. This empowers large groups to hunt them down and run them over, which they probably will.

That such a significant potential change has no explanation either in the forums or in the patch notes is absurd. Next to Arcanist and the permablock greaves, this is the most significant change to the game for PVP coming next patch. Some players might say this is even more significant than Arcanist based on what they've seen of the class on PTS.

And this leads to another consequence of this change. Everyone likes Tel Var stones, and everyone has found themselves in a situation where they have a lot of them on them. Now imagine how easy it will be to bring Tel Var stones to the home base, knowing that there is no real possibility of hiding.

And you know what the consequence of this will be? You like Hakeijo for 80k (today's prices from PC EU per piece), well, I hope you'll like them for 200k per piece.

Edit:
Typo

Or people will actually start to visit IC more knowing that now nightblades won't be most favoured class there.

All I need to do now is to chug potions with glyphs reducing potion cool down, running on my old sorc and no newbie can be safe there. You can't run from me, you can't hide from me. Ez tel vars. If something goes wrong, I'll just port behind a corner. Good luck catching me

Well than You are sacrificing lots of stats from traits end anchantments and some other effects from different potion to counter one specific playstyle. Your damage or/and sustain will be noticably weaker because of that and You will be in disadventage against everyone who isn't a nightblade. Sounds like a fair tradeoff.

Lol no I wont. Beside of having almost 100% uptime on detection, I can have around 70% uptime on cc immunity and still have magicka recovery (detection potion, cc immunity and magicka pot which I am already using on live) plus being argonian is more than enough when it goes to sustain, also having very high uptime on cc immunity reduces by a lot my need for stamina, AND EVEN IF I would get low I would be using dark deal to get minor berserk and force anyway, AND EVEN IF it would be a problem with 20s cooldown on potion I can just swap to tristat and then use my detection potion to have all buffs up at the same time, potions are way more flexible than sets because I can swap them during combat acordingly to situation. And still I can use any sets I want. I dont have to have perfect stats, few hundreds of spell/weapon damage doesnt matter its just a fraction of damage, but I get unstoppable build in return which is more than enough to get any newbie. Even if I would get into trouble, who cares? Did you ever tried to catch sorc in IC? You need whole coordinated group with very fast builds to even try. As a matter of fact, the only ones who will be able to escape my build will be other sorcs.

Lol yes You will. As a magsorc You will streak around less because of crippled stam sustain so less dark conversion spam which also means less reliable source of healing. Your already average dmg will be even lower. because of loss of dmg enchantments. As a stamsorc You will have crippled stam sustain and lower base dmg resulting with Your offense being super mediocre. Yes You will get some of the stam sustain back due to less breaking free but don't fool Yourself it will be sufficient. Argonian itself is pretty mediocre race when compared to orc or even high elf. You will loose even more dmg just to compensate for sustain loss. Switching potion every 20 seconds sounds nice on paper but will be unreliable in reality and at that point You will loose the benefit of the detection You've build Your whole setup for. What if You will run low on stamina right after You used detect potion because You gave up on potion that restores stamina? You will tell enemy to wait few seconds seconds? it's all nice on paper.

If setup like the one You want to use would be even slightly reliable people would be already running it. After all sorc with a streak could easily chase nightblades even just with 20 meters detection radius. There are also potions giving other nice buffs for example You could use heroism pot combined with resistance pot which gives You unique 5,3k resistances and have 100% uptime on both. You could use immovable pot combined with some other usefull pot. There is lot of theoretically strong combinations that would already work. Suprisingly nobody is using something like that. None of these combinations is stronger than getting 1k wep/spell dmg because this is how much 3x infused wep/spell dmg enchantment gives You after just major sorcery/brutality buff and You will loose this after switching enchantments to potion cooldon reduction. One reduce cost enchantment is stronger than specific resource gain from a potion. Other enchantments are just too strong to give up on them and make Your build all around potions. You are not the first one who had that great idea to build argonian with reduced potion cooldown enchantments. How many of these have You actually seen in PvP doing decent job? You think that just radius increase in detect potion is enough to make mediocre setup a strong and viable one?

xDeusEJRx

I hope this change doesn't go live. As much as I hate cloak spammers in pvp, this is kind of stupid and pretty much can/will destroy ganking as a playstyle.

Knowing zos though, who knows when this will be fixed. Hopefully sooner rather than later.

Mayrael

Galeriano wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

DrNukenstein wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

It's not completly destroying a class though.

It does destroy a class in team BGs when a coordinated team can take turns drinking potions to shutdown stealth with 100% up time.

IIRC, detect pots share their detect with all team mates.

Against coordinated groups it's another tool for them to flex their communication diff, and in those situations it will be absolutely brutal to play through if you are a stealth player.

Solo players who aren't looking for fights depend on stealth to get around in cyrodil in IC for their non PVP reasons. This empowers large groups to hunt them down and run them over, which they probably will.

That such a significant potential change has no explanation either in the forums or in the patch notes is absurd. Next to Arcanist and the permablock greaves, this is the most significant change to the game for PVP coming next patch. Some players might say this is even more significant than Arcanist based on what they've seen of the class on PTS.

And this leads to another consequence of this change. Everyone likes Tel Var stones, and everyone has found themselves in a situation where they have a lot of them on them. Now imagine how easy it will be to bring Tel Var stones to the home base, knowing that there is no real possibility of hiding.

And you know what the consequence of this will be? You like Hakeijo for 80k (today's prices from PC EU per piece), well, I hope you'll like them for 200k per piece.

Edit:
Typo

Or people will actually start to visit IC more knowing that now nightblades won't be most favoured class there.

All I need to do now is to chug potions with glyphs reducing potion cool down, running on my old sorc and no newbie can be safe there. You can't run from me, you can't hide from me. Ez tel vars. If something goes wrong, I'll just port behind a corner. Good luck catching me

Well than You are sacrificing lots of stats from traits end anchantments and some other effects from different potion to counter one specific playstyle. Your damage or/and sustain will be noticably weaker because of that and You will be in disadventage against everyone who isn't a nightblade. Sounds like a fair tradeoff.

Lol no I wont. Beside of having almost 100% uptime on detection, I can have around 70% uptime on cc immunity and still have magicka recovery (detection potion, cc immunity and magicka pot which I am already using on live) plus being argonian is more than enough when it goes to sustain, also having very high uptime on cc immunity reduces by a lot my need for stamina, AND EVEN IF I would get low I would be using dark deal to get minor berserk and force anyway, AND EVEN IF it would be a problem with 20s cooldown on potion I can just swap to tristat and then use my detection potion to have all buffs up at the same time, potions are way more flexible than sets because I can swap them during combat acordingly to situation. And still I can use any sets I want. I dont have to have perfect stats, few hundreds of spell/weapon damage doesnt matter its just a fraction of damage, but I get unstoppable build in return which is more than enough to get any newbie. Even if I would get into trouble, who cares? Did you ever tried to catch sorc in IC? You need whole coordinated group with very fast builds to even try. As a matter of fact, the only ones who will be able to escape my build will be other sorcs.

Lol yes You will. As a magsorc You will streak around less because of crippled stam sustain so less dark conversion spam which also means less reliable source of healing. Your already average dmg will be even lower. because of loss of dmg enchantments. As a stamsorc You will have crippled stam sustain and lower base dmg resulting with Your offense being super mediocre. Yes You will get some of the stam sustain back due to less breaking free but don't fool Yourself it will be sufficient. Argonian itself is pretty mediocre race when compared to orc or even high elf. You will loose even more dmg just to compensate for sustain loss. Switching potion every 20 seconds sounds nice on paper but will be unreliable in reality and at that point You will loose the benefit of the detection You've build Your whole setup for. What if You will run low on stamina right after You used detect potion because You gave up on potion that restores stamina? You will tell enemy to wait few seconds seconds? it's all nice on paper.

If setup like the one You want to use would be even slightly reliable people would be already running it. After all sorc with a streak could easily chase nightblades even just with 20 meters detection radius. There are also potions giving other nice buffs for example You could use heroism pot combined with resistance pot which gives You unique 5,3k resistances and have 100% uptime on both. You could use immovable pot combined with some other usefull pot. There is lot of theoretically strong combinations that would already work. Suprisingly nobody is using something like that. None of these combinations is stronger than getting 1k wep/spell dmg because this is how much 3x infused wep/spell dmg enchantment gives You after just major sorcery/brutality buff and You will loose this after switching enchantments to potion cooldon reduction. One reduce cost enchantment is stronger than specific resource gain from a potion. Other enchantments are just too strong to give up on them and make Your build all around potions. You are not the first one who had that great idea to build argonian with reduced potion cooldown enchantments. How many of these have You actually seen in PvP doing decent job? You think that just radius increase in detect potion is enough to make mediocre setup a strong and viable one?

To hunt newbies? I could run naked, but now they won't be able to hide from me, that's the only difference:)

Galeriano

Mayrael wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

DrNukenstein wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

It's not completly destroying a class though.

It does destroy a class in team BGs when a coordinated team can take turns drinking potions to shutdown stealth with 100% up time.

IIRC, detect pots share their detect with all team mates.

Against coordinated groups it's another tool for them to flex their communication diff, and in those situations it will be absolutely brutal to play through if you are a stealth player.

Solo players who aren't looking for fights depend on stealth to get around in cyrodil in IC for their non PVP reasons. This empowers large groups to hunt them down and run them over, which they probably will.

That such a significant potential change has no explanation either in the forums or in the patch notes is absurd. Next to Arcanist and the permablock greaves, this is the most significant change to the game for PVP coming next patch. Some players might say this is even more significant than Arcanist based on what they've seen of the class on PTS.

And this leads to another consequence of this change. Everyone likes Tel Var stones, and everyone has found themselves in a situation where they have a lot of them on them. Now imagine how easy it will be to bring Tel Var stones to the home base, knowing that there is no real possibility of hiding.

And you know what the consequence of this will be? You like Hakeijo for 80k (today's prices from PC EU per piece), well, I hope you'll like them for 200k per piece.

Edit:
Typo

Or people will actually start to visit IC more knowing that now nightblades won't be most favoured class there.

All I need to do now is to chug potions with glyphs reducing potion cool down, running on my old sorc and no newbie can be safe there. You can't run from me, you can't hide from me. Ez tel vars. If something goes wrong, I'll just port behind a corner. Good luck catching me

Well than You are sacrificing lots of stats from traits end anchantments and some other effects from different potion to counter one specific playstyle. Your damage or/and sustain will be noticably weaker because of that and You will be in disadventage against everyone who isn't a nightblade. Sounds like a fair tradeoff.

Lol no I wont. Beside of having almost 100% uptime on detection, I can have around 70% uptime on cc immunity and still have magicka recovery (detection potion, cc immunity and magicka pot which I am already using on live) plus being argonian is more than enough when it goes to sustain, also having very high uptime on cc immunity reduces by a lot my need for stamina, AND EVEN IF I would get low I would be using dark deal to get minor berserk and force anyway, AND EVEN IF it would be a problem with 20s cooldown on potion I can just swap to tristat and then use my detection potion to have all buffs up at the same time, potions are way more flexible than sets because I can swap them during combat acordingly to situation. And still I can use any sets I want. I dont have to have perfect stats, few hundreds of spell/weapon damage doesnt matter its just a fraction of damage, but I get unstoppable build in return which is more than enough to get any newbie. Even if I would get into trouble, who cares? Did you ever tried to catch sorc in IC? You need whole coordinated group with very fast builds to even try. As a matter of fact, the only ones who will be able to escape my build will be other sorcs.

Lol yes You will. As a magsorc You will streak around less because of crippled stam sustain so less dark conversion spam which also means less reliable source of healing. Your already average dmg will be even lower. because of loss of dmg enchantments. As a stamsorc You will have crippled stam sustain and lower base dmg resulting with Your offense being super mediocre. Yes You will get some of the stam sustain back due to less breaking free but don't fool Yourself it will be sufficient. Argonian itself is pretty mediocre race when compared to orc or even high elf. You will loose even more dmg just to compensate for sustain loss. Switching potion every 20 seconds sounds nice on paper but will be unreliable in reality and at that point You will loose the benefit of the detection You've build Your whole setup for. What if You will run low on stamina right after You used detect potion because You gave up on potion that restores stamina? You will tell enemy to wait few seconds seconds? it's all nice on paper.

If setup like the one You want to use would be even slightly reliable people would be already running it. After all sorc with a streak could easily chase nightblades even just with 20 meters detection radius. There are also potions giving other nice buffs for example You could use heroism pot combined with resistance pot which gives You unique 5,3k resistances and have 100% uptime on both. You could use immovable pot combined with some other usefull pot. There is lot of theoretically strong combinations that would already work. Suprisingly nobody is using something like that. None of these combinations is stronger than getting 1k wep/spell dmg because this is how much 3x infused wep/spell dmg enchantment gives You after just major sorcery/brutality buff and You will loose this after switching enchantments to potion cooldon reduction. One reduce cost enchantment is stronger than specific resource gain from a potion. Other enchantments are just too strong to give up on them and make Your build all around potions. You are not the first one who had that great idea to build argonian with reduced potion cooldown enchantments. How many of these have You actually seen in PvP doing decent job? You think that just radius increase in detect potion is enough to make mediocre setup a strong and viable one?

To hunt newbies? I could run naked, but now they won't be able to hide from me, that's the only difference:)

Well You've said it Yourself, You could run naked and get similar results.

Mayrael

Galeriano wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

DrNukenstein wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

It's not completly destroying a class though.

It does destroy a class in team BGs when a coordinated team can take turns drinking potions to shutdown stealth with 100% up time.

IIRC, detect pots share their detect with all team mates.

Against coordinated groups it's another tool for them to flex their communication diff, and in those situations it will be absolutely brutal to play through if you are a stealth player.

Solo players who aren't looking for fights depend on stealth to get around in cyrodil in IC for their non PVP reasons. This empowers large groups to hunt them down and run them over, which they probably will.

That such a significant potential change has no explanation either in the forums or in the patch notes is absurd. Next to Arcanist and the permablock greaves, this is the most significant change to the game for PVP coming next patch. Some players might say this is even more significant than Arcanist based on what they've seen of the class on PTS.

And this leads to another consequence of this change. Everyone likes Tel Var stones, and everyone has found themselves in a situation where they have a lot of them on them. Now imagine how easy it will be to bring Tel Var stones to the home base, knowing that there is no real possibility of hiding.

And you know what the consequence of this will be? You like Hakeijo for 80k (today's prices from PC EU per piece), well, I hope you'll like them for 200k per piece.

Edit:
Typo

Or people will actually start to visit IC more knowing that now nightblades won't be most favoured class there.

All I need to do now is to chug potions with glyphs reducing potion cool down, running on my old sorc and no newbie can be safe there. You can't run from me, you can't hide from me. Ez tel vars. If something goes wrong, I'll just port behind a corner. Good luck catching me

Well than You are sacrificing lots of stats from traits end anchantments and some other effects from different potion to counter one specific playstyle. Your damage or/and sustain will be noticably weaker because of that and You will be in disadventage against everyone who isn't a nightblade. Sounds like a fair tradeoff.

Lol no I wont. Beside of having almost 100% uptime on detection, I can have around 70% uptime on cc immunity and still have magicka recovery (detection potion, cc immunity and magicka pot which I am already using on live) plus being argonian is more than enough when it goes to sustain, also having very high uptime on cc immunity reduces by a lot my need for stamina, AND EVEN IF I would get low I would be using dark deal to get minor berserk and force anyway, AND EVEN IF it would be a problem with 20s cooldown on potion I can just swap to tristat and then use my detection potion to have all buffs up at the same time, potions are way more flexible than sets because I can swap them during combat acordingly to situation. And still I can use any sets I want. I dont have to have perfect stats, few hundreds of spell/weapon damage doesnt matter its just a fraction of damage, but I get unstoppable build in return which is more than enough to get any newbie. Even if I would get into trouble, who cares? Did you ever tried to catch sorc in IC? You need whole coordinated group with very fast builds to even try. As a matter of fact, the only ones who will be able to escape my build will be other sorcs.

Lol yes You will. As a magsorc You will streak around less because of crippled stam sustain so less dark conversion spam which also means less reliable source of healing. Your already average dmg will be even lower. because of loss of dmg enchantments. As a stamsorc You will have crippled stam sustain and lower base dmg resulting with Your offense being super mediocre. Yes You will get some of the stam sustain back due to less breaking free but don't fool Yourself it will be sufficient. Argonian itself is pretty mediocre race when compared to orc or even high elf. You will loose even more dmg just to compensate for sustain loss. Switching potion every 20 seconds sounds nice on paper but will be unreliable in reality and at that point You will loose the benefit of the detection You've build Your whole setup for. What if You will run low on stamina right after You used detect potion because You gave up on potion that restores stamina? You will tell enemy to wait few seconds seconds? it's all nice on paper.

If setup like the one You want to use would be even slightly reliable people would be already running it. After all sorc with a streak could easily chase nightblades even just with 20 meters detection radius. There are also potions giving other nice buffs for example You could use heroism pot combined with resistance pot which gives You unique 5,3k resistances and have 100% uptime on both. You could use immovable pot combined with some other usefull pot. There is lot of theoretically strong combinations that would already work. Suprisingly nobody is using something like that. None of these combinations is stronger than getting 1k wep/spell dmg because this is how much 3x infused wep/spell dmg enchantment gives You after just major sorcery/brutality buff and You will loose this after switching enchantments to potion cooldon reduction. One reduce cost enchantment is stronger than specific resource gain from a potion. Other enchantments are just too strong to give up on them and make Your build all around potions. You are not the first one who had that great idea to build argonian with reduced potion cooldown enchantments. How many of these have You actually seen in PvP doing decent job? You think that just radius increase in detect potion is enough to make mediocre setup a strong and viable one?

To hunt newbies? I could run naked, but now they won't be able to hide from me, that's the only difference:)

Well You've said it Yourself, You could run naked and get similar results.

Nope. I said I can kill newbie naked, but this build is far from being naked And please stop to offtop spam another thread on this topic. We need an official statement not your theories.

Galeriano

Mayrael wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

DrNukenstein wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

It's not completly destroying a class though.

It does destroy a class in team BGs when a coordinated team can take turns drinking potions to shutdown stealth with 100% up time.

IIRC, detect pots share their detect with all team mates.

Against coordinated groups it's another tool for them to flex their communication diff, and in those situations it will be absolutely brutal to play through if you are a stealth player.

Solo players who aren't looking for fights depend on stealth to get around in cyrodil in IC for their non PVP reasons. This empowers large groups to hunt them down and run them over, which they probably will.

That such a significant potential change has no explanation either in the forums or in the patch notes is absurd. Next to Arcanist and the permablock greaves, this is the most significant change to the game for PVP coming next patch. Some players might say this is even more significant than Arcanist based on what they've seen of the class on PTS.

And this leads to another consequence of this change. Everyone likes Tel Var stones, and everyone has found themselves in a situation where they have a lot of them on them. Now imagine how easy it will be to bring Tel Var stones to the home base, knowing that there is no real possibility of hiding.

And you know what the consequence of this will be? You like Hakeijo for 80k (today's prices from PC EU per piece), well, I hope you'll like them for 200k per piece.

Edit:
Typo

Or people will actually start to visit IC more knowing that now nightblades won't be most favoured class there.

All I need to do now is to chug potions with glyphs reducing potion cool down, running on my old sorc and no newbie can be safe there. You can't run from me, you can't hide from me. Ez tel vars. If something goes wrong, I'll just port behind a corner. Good luck catching me

Well than You are sacrificing lots of stats from traits end anchantments and some other effects from different potion to counter one specific playstyle. Your damage or/and sustain will be noticably weaker because of that and You will be in disadventage against everyone who isn't a nightblade. Sounds like a fair tradeoff.

Lol no I wont. Beside of having almost 100% uptime on detection, I can have around 70% uptime on cc immunity and still have magicka recovery (detection potion, cc immunity and magicka pot which I am already using on live) plus being argonian is more than enough when it goes to sustain, also having very high uptime on cc immunity reduces by a lot my need for stamina, AND EVEN IF I would get low I would be using dark deal to get minor berserk and force anyway, AND EVEN IF it would be a problem with 20s cooldown on potion I can just swap to tristat and then use my detection potion to have all buffs up at the same time, potions are way more flexible than sets because I can swap them during combat acordingly to situation. And still I can use any sets I want. I dont have to have perfect stats, few hundreds of spell/weapon damage doesnt matter its just a fraction of damage, but I get unstoppable build in return which is more than enough to get any newbie. Even if I would get into trouble, who cares? Did you ever tried to catch sorc in IC? You need whole coordinated group with very fast builds to even try. As a matter of fact, the only ones who will be able to escape my build will be other sorcs.

Lol yes You will. As a magsorc You will streak around less because of crippled stam sustain so less dark conversion spam which also means less reliable source of healing. Your already average dmg will be even lower. because of loss of dmg enchantments. As a stamsorc You will have crippled stam sustain and lower base dmg resulting with Your offense being super mediocre. Yes You will get some of the stam sustain back due to less breaking free but don't fool Yourself it will be sufficient. Argonian itself is pretty mediocre race when compared to orc or even high elf. You will loose even more dmg just to compensate for sustain loss. Switching potion every 20 seconds sounds nice on paper but will be unreliable in reality and at that point You will loose the benefit of the detection You've build Your whole setup for. What if You will run low on stamina right after You used detect potion because You gave up on potion that restores stamina? You will tell enemy to wait few seconds seconds? it's all nice on paper.

If setup like the one You want to use would be even slightly reliable people would be already running it. After all sorc with a streak could easily chase nightblades even just with 20 meters detection radius. There are also potions giving other nice buffs for example You could use heroism pot combined with resistance pot which gives You unique 5,3k resistances and have 100% uptime on both. You could use immovable pot combined with some other usefull pot. There is lot of theoretically strong combinations that would already work. Suprisingly nobody is using something like that. None of these combinations is stronger than getting 1k wep/spell dmg because this is how much 3x infused wep/spell dmg enchantment gives You after just major sorcery/brutality buff and You will loose this after switching enchantments to potion cooldon reduction. One reduce cost enchantment is stronger than specific resource gain from a potion. Other enchantments are just too strong to give up on them and make Your build all around potions. You are not the first one who had that great idea to build argonian with reduced potion cooldown enchantments. How many of these have You actually seen in PvP doing decent job? You think that just radius increase in detect potion is enough to make mediocre setup a strong and viable one?

To hunt newbies? I could run naked, but now they won't be able to hide from me, that's the only difference:)

Well You've said it Yourself, You could run naked and get similar results.

Nope. I said I can kill newbie naked, but this build is far from being naked And please stop to offtop spam another thread on this topic. We need an official statement not your theories.

Well and You also said that setup will be usefull to hunt newbies which You can also do naked.

I am providing my opinions same as You. They are as much theories as everything what You are saying. Yes we need an official statement. It doesn't mean we cannot have a discussion about the change.

DrNukenstein

Panderbander wrote: »

I feel like there's a lot of misunderstanding what happens when you use a detect pot.

- it doesn't reveal you when someone else uses a detect pot. And
- only the potion user can see you

Detect pots don't function the same way as the sentry set, which will straight up reveal you to everyone.

Oh, I thought they make you visible to all players allied with the potion user.

False alarm, this is actually kind of not that bad and more of a problem for the 2 brain cell snipe spammers. I've been going within 20 meters since day 1 and that's the only way to really earn your K's

Galeriano

DrNukenstein wrote: »

Panderbander wrote: »

I feel like there's a lot of misunderstanding what happens when you use a detect pot.

- it doesn't reveal you when someone else uses a detect pot. And
- only the potion user can see you

Detect pots don't function the same way as the sentry set, which will straight up reveal you to everyone.

Oh, I thought they make you visible to all players allied with the potion user.

False alarm, this is actually kind of not that bad and more of a problem for the 2 brain cell snipe spammers. I've been going within 20 meters since day 1 and that's the only way to really earn your K's

They were revealing nb for group memebers years ago. It was propably the first thing that was changed about detection.

sunshineflame

Imagine hiding in PvP 🤣🤣🤣

Mayrael

Galeriano wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

DrNukenstein wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

It's not completly destroying a class though.

It does destroy a class in team BGs when a coordinated team can take turns drinking potions to shutdown stealth with 100% up time.

IIRC, detect pots share their detect with all team mates.

Against coordinated groups it's another tool for them to flex their communication diff, and in those situations it will be absolutely brutal to play through if you are a stealth player.

Solo players who aren't looking for fights depend on stealth to get around in cyrodil in IC for their non PVP reasons. This empowers large groups to hunt them down and run them over, which they probably will.

That such a significant potential change has no explanation either in the forums or in the patch notes is absurd. Next to Arcanist and the permablock greaves, this is the most significant change to the game for PVP coming next patch. Some players might say this is even more significant than Arcanist based on what they've seen of the class on PTS.

And this leads to another consequence of this change. Everyone likes Tel Var stones, and everyone has found themselves in a situation where they have a lot of them on them. Now imagine how easy it will be to bring Tel Var stones to the home base, knowing that there is no real possibility of hiding.

And you know what the consequence of this will be? You like Hakeijo for 80k (today's prices from PC EU per piece), well, I hope you'll like them for 200k per piece.

Edit:
Typo

Or people will actually start to visit IC more knowing that now nightblades won't be most favoured class there.

All I need to do now is to chug potions with glyphs reducing potion cool down, running on my old sorc and no newbie can be safe there. You can't run from me, you can't hide from me. Ez tel vars. If something goes wrong, I'll just port behind a corner. Good luck catching me

Well than You are sacrificing lots of stats from traits end anchantments and some other effects from different potion to counter one specific playstyle. Your damage or/and sustain will be noticably weaker because of that and You will be in disadventage against everyone who isn't a nightblade. Sounds like a fair tradeoff.

Lol no I wont. Beside of having almost 100% uptime on detection, I can have around 70% uptime on cc immunity and still have magicka recovery (detection potion, cc immunity and magicka pot which I am already using on live) plus being argonian is more than enough when it goes to sustain, also having very high uptime on cc immunity reduces by a lot my need for stamina, AND EVEN IF I would get low I would be using dark deal to get minor berserk and force anyway, AND EVEN IF it would be a problem with 20s cooldown on potion I can just swap to tristat and then use my detection potion to have all buffs up at the same time, potions are way more flexible than sets because I can swap them during combat acordingly to situation. And still I can use any sets I want. I dont have to have perfect stats, few hundreds of spell/weapon damage doesnt matter its just a fraction of damage, but I get unstoppable build in return which is more than enough to get any newbie. Even if I would get into trouble, who cares? Did you ever tried to catch sorc in IC? You need whole coordinated group with very fast builds to even try. As a matter of fact, the only ones who will be able to escape my build will be other sorcs.

Lol yes You will. As a magsorc You will streak around less because of crippled stam sustain so less dark conversion spam which also means less reliable source of healing. Your already average dmg will be even lower. because of loss of dmg enchantments. As a stamsorc You will have crippled stam sustain and lower base dmg resulting with Your offense being super mediocre. Yes You will get some of the stam sustain back due to less breaking free but don't fool Yourself it will be sufficient. Argonian itself is pretty mediocre race when compared to orc or even high elf. You will loose even more dmg just to compensate for sustain loss. Switching potion every 20 seconds sounds nice on paper but will be unreliable in reality and at that point You will loose the benefit of the detection You've build Your whole setup for. What if You will run low on stamina right after You used detect potion because You gave up on potion that restores stamina? You will tell enemy to wait few seconds seconds? it's all nice on paper.

If setup like the one You want to use would be even slightly reliable people would be already running it. After all sorc with a streak could easily chase nightblades even just with 20 meters detection radius. There are also potions giving other nice buffs for example You could use heroism pot combined with resistance pot which gives You unique 5,3k resistances and have 100% uptime on both. You could use immovable pot combined with some other usefull pot. There is lot of theoretically strong combinations that would already work. Suprisingly nobody is using something like that. None of these combinations is stronger than getting 1k wep/spell dmg because this is how much 3x infused wep/spell dmg enchantment gives You after just major sorcery/brutality buff and You will loose this after switching enchantments to potion cooldon reduction. One reduce cost enchantment is stronger than specific resource gain from a potion. Other enchantments are just too strong to give up on them and make Your build all around potions. You are not the first one who had that great idea to build argonian with reduced potion cooldown enchantments. How many of these have You actually seen in PvP doing decent job? You think that just radius increase in detect potion is enough to make mediocre setup a strong and viable one?

To hunt newbies? I could run naked, but now they won't be able to hide from me, that's the only difference:)

Well You've said it Yourself, You could run naked and get similar results.

Nope. I said I can kill newbie naked, but this build is far from being naked And please stop to offtop spam another thread on this topic. We need an official statement not your theories.

Well and You also said that setup will be usefull to hunt newbies which You can also do naked.

I am providing my opinions same as You. They are as much theories as everything what You are saying. Yes we need an official statement. It doesn't mean we cannot have a discussion about the change.

Ok.
Here is the build.

If youre trying to tell me that this is "almost naked" build then lol It has damage, sustain, defense, high speed, low roll dodge cost, high crit resistance and can have almost 75% uptime on detection potion, very high uptime on cc immunity and as a lol I can go for stage 4 vampire to have almost no cost cloak while sprinting.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=531972

Edit:
Typos

DrNukenstein

It's actually really impressive that you hit so many benchmark stats on that build when it's focus is 100% potion up time. That's why this is one of the games of all time.

Mayrael

DrNukenstein wrote: »

It's actually really impressive that you hit so many benchmark stats on that build when it's focus is 100% potion up time. That's why this is one of the games of all time.

I'm creating my own builds since 2014, sorc used to be my main, I know what I'm talking about when it goes to creating some cancer.

ZeroAxis

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wi-xeWxw7K8

I’ll just leave this here to correct some of the information that has been posted here. This will help everybody get a better idea of how the pots work

fred4

To everyone who said this is going to affect Tel Var prices or bought into that argument: No. You can't predict how that's going to go, or at least I can't. The amount of Tel Var coming from IC is more or less fixed. It is limited by boss uptime and how much people choose to farm mobs. How many flags are all one color also contributes, as it affects the multiplier. Whether someone gets ganked in no way affects the overall Tel Var coming from IC. It only changes who brings those Tel Var to market.

You may argue that a nerf to NBs makes IC more attractive to farmers, that there will be an increase in farmers as a result. Specifically these would have to be mob farmers, because bosses are more or less farmed to extinction anyway, at least on PC EU. I find it hard to say whether this will happen. I've seen nightblades farming mobs and disappear after finishing a batch of those. There are players who use stealth that way and do little PvP. I therefore suspect we're merely looking at a shift in class representation in IC, but not overall Tel Var.

Traxxar

[/quote]

And this leads to another consequence of this change. Everyone likes Tel Var stones, and everyone has found themselves in a situation where they have a lot of them on them. Now imagine how easy it will be to bring Tel Var stones to the home base, knowing that there is no real possibility of hiding.

And you know what the consequence of this will be? You like Hakeijo for 80k (today's prices from PC EU per piece), well, I hope you'll like them for 200k per piece.

Edit:
Typo[/quote]

Not sure we understand economics the same way. With more TV in the market, there are more Hakeijo which means the prices drop, not go up.
More likely you get them for 50k again.

fred4

I play a nightblade that leans on Shadowy Disguise. I grew up in IC where I do mixed PvP and PvE. The class made sense as a beginner and I fell in love with that playstyle.

While I'm concerned, I cannot tell whether concerns are overblown or real. If a player or a group wants to chase nightblades on live, they already can. Sorcs with Streak and detection potions have always been a strong NB counter. There's the Sentry set, the historically improved detection skills (Magelight / Camou Hunter), Bombard / Acid Spray spam, and so on. If you run into a player or a group that wants to hard counter a cloaking nightblade, you are already screwed. The only reason the game feels balanced is the amount of players who haven't learnt to use the existing tools properly, or who choose not to use them because everything about those tools is ever so slightly inconvenient to them. Bar space, short ranges, downtimes, sacrificing tri-stat potions, and so on. It's got to be that way or cloaking NBs wouldn't be viable as is.

Many of these inconveniences will remain. Potions will still have a cooldown. What will change is that potions can now be used proactively, rather than reactively. 20m is too short for detecting nightblades that you don''t already know are near. It's pretty darn good for going after them if you, say, heard them cloak, though.

Will the change cause people to routinely use detection potions proactively? It's hard to say. The Sentry set 5-piece also gives you damage. It's not a half bad set, yet surprisingly few people run it. ZOS is gambling on the revised potions being the same, that the sacrifice of giving up your normal potions, and your potion timing, will not significantly change the balance.

That leaves the increased range when you're actually going after nightblades. I have no handle on this. As a cloaking nightblade, do I like the idea? No. Will it be that much worse for my class than where we already are? I don't know. I already think that speed is NBs best friend. If they can see me, but they're not in range, what difference will it make? I'm not sure. When you're up againt tryhard NB killers, you're already waiting for their potion cooldown or you have to adapt your build / playstyle to fight with greater visibility.

fred4

Traxxar wrote: »

And this leads to another consequence of this change. Everyone likes Tel Var stones, and everyone has found themselves in a situation where they have a lot of them on them. Now imagine how easy it will be to bring Tel Var stones to the home base, knowing that there is no real possibility of hiding.

And you know what the consequence of this will be? You like Hakeijo for 80k (today's prices from PC EU per piece), well, I hope you'll like them for 200k per piece.

Not sure we understand economics the same way. With more TV in the market, there are more Hakeijo which means the prices drop, not go up. More likely you get them for 50k again.

Please see my post just above yours.

Mayrael

fred4 wrote: »

To everyone who said this is going to affect Tel Var prices or bought into that argument: No. You can't predict how that's going to go, or at least I can't. The amount of Tel Var coming from IC is more or less fixed. It is limited by boss uptime and how much people choose to farm mobs. How many flags are all one color also contributes, as it affects the multiplier. Whether someone gets ganked in no way affects the overall Tel Var coming from IC. It only changes who brings those Tel Var to market.

You may argue that a nerf to NBs makes IC more attractive to farmers, that there will be an increase in farmers as a result. Specifically these would have to be mob farmers, because bosses are more or less farmed to extinction anyway, at least on PC EU. I find it hard to say whether this will happen. I've seen nightblades farming mobs and disappear after finishing a batch of those. There are players who use stealth that way and do little PvP. I therefore suspect we're merely looking at a shift in class representation in IC, but not overall Tel Var.

You are assuming (and not just you) that only Nightblades hunt Tel Var farmers, but that's not true. Just take a walk around IC and you can see what it's really like.

With this potion, groups of 3-4 players can easily clear district after district of any player who's there. All they need to do is to drink the potion one after another and nothing will hide from them. Districts like Arboretum or Arena will become no-go zones because the only hope for a solo player to survive will be to use LoS and try to transfer to Cyrodiil with what they have gathered so far, and these districts are wide open.

It's true that when you're ready to leave IC with a satisfying amount of Tel Var, you can teleport to Cyrodiil or use a teleportation stone, but to get that "satisfying" amount, you have to spend a certain amount of time in IC, which will be significantly more difficult now. Currently, when you spot a threat, you can wait it out in hide, use an invisibility potion, etc. With a detection potion with a range of 100m, it won't be so easy anymore. Of course, more experienced players will have a better chance, but PvE players or new PvP players will die left and right.

Now imagine that there are several of these groups.

These are just my assumptions, and everyone has the right to see it differently, but I have spent quite some time in IC, as a solo player as a sorcerer, NB and templar, and also running coordinated groups that cleared IC of players.

Edit:
Yes it doesn't matter who brings the Tel Var stones, but the number of people who farm Tel Var solo will drop drastically because the only thing that will protect them from losing TV will be a larger group, which in turn will affect the number of farming players.

fred4

Mayrael wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

To everyone who said this is going to affect Tel Var prices or bought into that argument: No. You can't predict how that's going to go, or at least I can't. The amount of Tel Var coming from IC is more or less fixed. It is limited by boss uptime and how much people choose to farm mobs. How many flags are all one color also contributes, as it affects the multiplier. Whether someone gets ganked in no way affects the overall Tel Var coming from IC. It only changes who brings those Tel Var to market.

You may argue that a nerf to NBs makes IC more attractive to farmers, that there will be an increase in farmers as a result. Specifically these would have to be mob farmers, because bosses are more or less farmed to extinction anyway, at least on PC EU. I find it hard to say whether this will happen. I've seen nightblades farming mobs and disappear after finishing a batch of those. There are players who use stealth that way and do little PvP. I therefore suspect we're merely looking at a shift in class representation in IC, but not overall Tel Var.

You are assuming (and not just you) that only Nightblades hunt Tel Var farmers, but that's not true. Just take a walk around IC and you can see what it's really like.

With this potion, groups of 3-4 players can easily clear district after district of any player who's there. All they need to do is to drink the potion one after another and nothing will hide from them. Districts like Arboretum or Arena will become no-go zones because the only hope for a solo player to survive will be to use LoS and try to transfer to Cyrodiil with what they have gathered so far, and these districts are wide open.

It's true that when you're ready to leave IC with a satisfying amount of Tel Var, you can teleport to Cyrodiil or use a teleportation stone, but to get that "satisfying" amount, you have to spend a certain amount of time in IC, which will be significantly more difficult now. Currently, when you spot a threat, you can wait it out in hide, use an invisibility potion, etc. With a detection potion with a range of 100m, it won't be so easy anymore. Of course, more experienced players will have a better chance, but PvE players or new PvP players will die left and right.

Now imagine that there are several of these groups.

These are just my assumptions, and everyone has the right to see it differently, but I have spent quite some time in IC, as a solo player as a sorcerer, NB and templar, and also running coordinated groups that cleared IC of players.

Well, that possibly sucks for you. I agree. I don't agree things are this bleak and it will happen, but I agree that potions could be used this way and some groups will. My post doesn't speak to that though. It speaks to the volume of Tel Var taken from IC as a whole and what that will do to the economy. Tel Var are fixed per kill. They are shared between the players participating in the kill. 50% of Tel Var are transferred during a PvP kill, but they are not lost. One way or the other, they end up in the economy.

If farmers are hunted to extinction and the predators that do so don't turn to farming themselves, the predators will also leave IC. Then the farmers will return. It's self-balancing. EDIT: Unless you think IC will turn into a pure PvP zone, but I don't think so. I think good PvPers also farm. See below. In fact for me personally the best way to make Tel Var is going with the flow. If I encounter PvP I do that. If my faction doesn't own anything, I may take flags. The alternative would be ganking, true, but I do a bit of everything. I find the best way to make Tel Var is being flexible and soloing a boss when the time is right.

That said, I have a suggestion for you. One suggestion is to join your alliance's boss-farming zerg obviously. Other than that, I've been trying this insane mob farming build:

5x Sithis' Touch
5x Mara or other defensive set of your choice
1x Sea Serpent
1x Magma Incarnate or whatever

This will make you insanely fast as long as you kill stuff at least every 30s. Add some CP, perhaps a bow or Race Against Time (or just sprint), and you will be at the 200% speed cap permanently, despite wearing Sea Serpent. You also auto-cloak for 3s after a kill. It's difficult to hit a player who is that fast. It also speeds up your farming. There must be an addon to queue you for Cyro without going into the menu for when you need to escape. In the meantime you run like hell.

EARLIER EDIT: FWIW I don't believe you can make a clear distinction between PvPers and farmers. I'm an example of a player who does both. Good PvPers can dominate IC by taking all the flags. It could be a faction's zerg being the strongest, but it can also be 2 or 3 good players at off peak hours. Why do they do that? To farm. To farm at maximum multiplier, taking the most Tel Var from IC. It is not at all clear to me how much Tel Var comes from the walking bosses and from dominating IC, and how much from (solo) mob or sewer farmers.

Mayrael

fred4 wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

To everyone who said this is going to affect Tel Var prices or bought into that argument: No. You can't predict how that's going to go, or at least I can't. The amount of Tel Var coming from IC is more or less fixed. It is limited by boss uptime and how much people choose to farm mobs. How many flags are all one color also contributes, as it affects the multiplier. Whether someone gets ganked in no way affects the overall Tel Var coming from IC. It only changes who brings those Tel Var to market.

You may argue that a nerf to NBs makes IC more attractive to farmers, that there will be an increase in farmers as a result. Specifically these would have to be mob farmers, because bosses are more or less farmed to extinction anyway, at least on PC EU. I find it hard to say whether this will happen. I've seen nightblades farming mobs and disappear after finishing a batch of those. There are players who use stealth that way and do little PvP. I therefore suspect we're merely looking at a shift in class representation in IC, but not overall Tel Var.

You are assuming (and not just you) that only Nightblades hunt Tel Var farmers, but that's not true. Just take a walk around IC and you can see what it's really like.

With this potion, groups of 3-4 players can easily clear district after district of any player who's there. All they need to do is to drink the potion one after another and nothing will hide from them. Districts like Arboretum or Arena will become no-go zones because the only hope for a solo player to survive will be to use LoS and try to transfer to Cyrodiil with what they have gathered so far, and these districts are wide open.

It's true that when you're ready to leave IC with a satisfying amount of Tel Var, you can teleport to Cyrodiil or use a teleportation stone, but to get that "satisfying" amount, you have to spend a certain amount of time in IC, which will be significantly more difficult now. Currently, when you spot a threat, you can wait it out in hide, use an invisibility potion, etc. With a detection potion with a range of 100m, it won't be so easy anymore. Of course, more experienced players will have a better chance, but PvE players or new PvP players will die left and right.

Now imagine that there are several of these groups.

These are just my assumptions, and everyone has the right to see it differently, but I have spent quite some time in IC, as a solo player as a sorcerer, NB and templar, and also running coordinated groups that cleared IC of players.

Well, that possibly sucks for you. I agree. I don't agree things are this bleak and it will happen, but I agree that potions could be used this way and some groups will. My post doesn't speak to that though. It speaks to the volume of Tel Var taken from IC as a whole and what that will do to the economy. Tel Var are fixed per kill. They are shared between the players participating in the kill. 50% of Tel Var are transferred during a PvP kill, but they are not lost. One way or the other, they end up in the economy.

If farmers are hunted to extinction and the predators that do so don't turn to farming themselves, the predators will also leave IC. Then the farmers will return. It's self-balancing. EDIT: Unless you think IC will turn into a pure PvP zone, but I don't think so. I think good PvPers also farm. See below. In fact for me personally the best way to make Tel Var is going with the flow. If I encounter PvP I do that. If my faction doesn't own anything, I may take flags. The alternative would be ganking, true, but I do a bit of everything. I find the best way to make Tel Var is being flexible and soloing a boss when the time is right.

That said, I have a suggestion for you. One suggestion is to join your alliance's boss-farming zerg obviously. Other than that, I've been trying this insane mob farming build:

5x Sithis' Touch
5x Mara or other defensive set of your choice
1x Sea Serpent
1x Magma Incarnate or whatever

This will make you insanely fast as long as you kill stuff at least every 30s. Add some CP, perhaps a bow or Race Against Time (or just sprint), and you will be at the 200% speed cap permanently, despite wearing Sea Serpent. You also auto-cloak for 3s after a kill. It's difficult to hit a player who is that fast. It also speeds up your farming. There must be an addon to queue you for Cyro without going into the menu for when you need to escape. In the meantime you run like hell.

EARLIER EDIT: FWIW I don't believe you can make a clear distinction between PvPers and farmers. I'm an example of a player who does both. Good PvPers can dominate IC by taking all the flags. It could be a faction's zerg being the strongest, but it can also be 2 or 3 good players at off peak hours. Why do they do that? To farm. To farm at maximum multiplier, taking the most Tel Var from IC. It is not at all clear to me how much Tel Var comes from the walking bosses and from dominating IC, and how much from (solo) mob or sewer farmers.

I think you have some valid points and some IMHO are wrong, but I think this discussion once again is going off the tracks thus if you want to discuss that stuff I think we should do it using DM's.

xylena_lazarow

"Oh no, they made detect pots functional, help!"

blktauna

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

"Oh no, they made detect pots functional, help!"

There's functional and there's ridiculous. 100m is ridiculous/