TaSheen wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

@Galeriano - I think it would be kinder to not be so confrontive with someone you don't know. People react very differently to perceived changes - I try to figure out how to change things to still be able to do what I want to do; others have vastly different reactions to changes.

Please be gentler, kinder to others.

Yeah I’m no longer responding to that person. They come across hateful. I’m done.

You do know how to ignore someone, yes?

TaSheen wrote: »

You click on the person's name on a post, which takes you to their profile. There's a little "person" icon to the top right. Click on that, the dorpdown offers the IGNORE option. Click that, reply yes to the prompt question.

If the person's profile is private, copy the person's forum name, go to your own profile page, click on the far right icon, select "Edit Profile"; in the left sidebar is the option "Ignore list" ; click on that, and there's a text entry field in the middle of the page appx; add the person's name to the field, click OK, and yes if prompted.

TaSheen wrote: »

It's there for a reason. No one gets along all the time - usually it's a "help technique" for oneself to not get triggered. Be aware that while posts by those ignored will be hidden behind a grey panel block, new posts by those ignored will not be blocked out - for some reason, this particular forum software doesn't seem able to manage that.

TaSheen wrote: »

@Galeriano - I think it would be kinder to not be so confrontive with someone you don't know. People react very differently to perceived changes - I try to figure out how to change things to still be able to do what I want to do; others have vastly different reactions to changes.

Please be gentler, kinder to others.

TaSheen wrote: »

@Galeriano - we will agree to disagree. You are a bludgeon. I know - because I can be also (though I do not indulge that here). Try not to be cruel. You never know what another person is dealing with. Someday, you may have similar issues.

Think about it.

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

Another thing to keep in mind is that DPS "acceptability" is not really continuous. Right now, if a guild or group is looking for a DPS and you have a HA build, it is usually a case of, "Not gonna be as high numbers as a 'real DPS', but close enough, so I'll invite." But once the numbers drop low enough, even if they are plenty good enough for a clear, you will start to hear a lot of, "They have enough to clear but are gonna slow us down - don't invite them."

50k DPS in Maw of Lorkhaj used to be one-in-a-million Top 0.0001% elite. No one, and I mean no one, wants a 50k DPS in their vMOL run nowadays. So this idea that, "You still have enough to clear," is absolutely true but not all that relevant. HA builds don't need to do the same DPS as LA weaving builds. But they have to be close enough where guild leaders and trial organizers don't feel they are a hindrance. Depending on how the dust settles, it is possible, and even probable, that HA builds will do enough DPS to clear, but not enough DPS to be welcome in most groups.

Saying 75k+ dps isn't enough to be welcome in most groups is disingenuous. Group leaders requiring more dps than that are either score pushing, going for HM progs, or just bad raid leaders that don't understand how much dps is actually necessary. All of these are issues with the group itself and not issues with Oaken HA builds. If you're getting turned away from groups, join a guild that's more welcoming; there's plenty of Vet Trial guilds that would be more than comfortable welcoming Oaken HA builds as long as you're willing to learn mechanics.

Edit: also important to note the 50k of those days is the same as the 100k from present day due to the trial dummies. Requirements haven't changed, the inclusion of the Trial dummy just multiplied everyone's numbers. Shoutout to parsing on Bloodspawn

while I cannot contradict you I would like to point out that there are more players doing 70+ dps than there are vet trial groups with free places. I've been trying to find a group since three years without much success. Admittedly I did not try very very hard but still it is not that vet trial groups are around like sand grains on a beach. So you always be in a competition somehow with stronger players looking for a vet trial group as well.

Jammy420 wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

Tradewind wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

Top tier players are not even running with this setup so it's hardly a decision based around them. It's mid and low tier players that still want to play something else that got affected the most by oakensoul HA setups.

No nerfs since then. You can still get over 80k on live server by pressing 1 button.

The issue at hand is that top-tier players do not value HA builds as highly as other builds, as evidenced by their ability to parse up to 135k on a dummy and maintain that damage output within trials.
Players with strong rotations can still manage to parse around 110k, which is a 25k decrease from the top-tier players. However, those who rely on HA builds may only be able to parse around 80k, a significant 55k decrease from top-tier players.

Unfortunately, this means that certain challenging activities like vTrial HM will become impossible for HA users to complete, finding progression groups will be extremely difficult without outside resources like Discord. These groups will require extensive log and parse analysis before even considering allowing HA to join, which puts HA users at a disadvantage as they may not be able to produce the high DPS numbers that these groups are looking for, not even close now. It's clear that nerfing HA will be a gameover for players who rely on these builds to hunt HM.

This is what it's all about. It's a well-known fact that this is currently happening in the game. To participate in HM, you need to join Discord. While Zenimax may not be able to do anything about it (although they could), you need to post your parse and the raid leader may choose who to bring along. However, some players have higher parses, such as 135k or 110k, compared to others who have 80k HA (100k without nerf). It's understandable why the raid leader might not choose someone with lower DPS. Why would they? Out of pity?

Initially, ZeniMax sold Oakensoul, and later on, they nearly caused a gameover situation for players who were undertaking challenging trials such as vCR +1/2/3. Now, it seems like ZeniMax will prevent all users of HA from accessing the game's most difficult content. If this nerf is implemented, it's evident that the consequences will be severe.

It’s a shame because players like me CAN weave and can do all the things other players do. The problem is I can’t do it for more than one 5 minutes without exteme severe pain, due to carpal
Tunnel and 2 injuries which messed up the nerves in my fingers on top of it.

So for me the only way I can be consistent is using a heavy attack build. Not everyone who is doing these builds is doing it because they are lazy, or whatever it may be. It’s a shame they will deny access to more players. I think as long as you get the job done it shouldn’t matter how you did it.

Hopefully they are listening to peoples opinions on this issue.

Have you considered swapping to controller? It is in fact GOOD for treating your ailment.

Hapexamendios wrote: »

Jammy420 wrote: »

This is such an overreaction, heavy attack buils will still be viable, they just wont be overpowered as all hell, like they are right now.

Overpowered? I can say I certainly am not overpowered at all. I think that the majority of us aren't.

For effort required, it is OP.

isadoraisacat wrote: »

Hapexamendios wrote: »

Jammy420 wrote: »

This is such an overreaction, heavy attack buils will still be viable, they just wont be overpowered as all hell, like they are right now.

Overpowered? I can say I certainly am not overpowered at all. I think that the majority of us aren't.

Yeah I certainly don’t feel “over powered” now I feel like average player where as before a below average player in terms of damage output.

With the amount of effort and practice required for a heavy attack build, it should not be as strong as the better builds, it should be ok, at best.

Stanelis wrote: »

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

Stanelis wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

Stanelis wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

Stanelis wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

Well one bar builds have not fixed that issue. They just made things worse for those two bar enjoyers who were not top tier DDs. New mythic coming with Necrom seems to address that issue better than oakensoul. It lowers LA/HA dmg but boost all the other dmg. That being said it still doesn't mean that one bar heavy attack average DPS is where it should be balance wise according to devs.

So after over a year of improving the game in the direction of making it more accesible and making one bar heavy attack setups stronger where they went from around 70-75k DPS to 90-100k DPS now after they reached a point where average one bar user is easily outperforming average two bar user, slight nerf to one bar heavy attack setups effectivenss is a step in wrong direction? Also fact that a one bar, ranged setup with easy sustain, simple slow paced rotation and high base defense that also have lots of AoE built into it is doing more damage on average than two bar, meele setup with harder sustain, more complex fast paced rotation, lower based defense and lower AoE dmg is sending a right message? Come on let's be real here.

.

Congratulation you just defined why 2 bars gameplay is clunky atm and has been for ages. Also no its not confirmation bias, when one bar builds weren't a thing people who didn't enjoy 2 bars gameplay simply left the game.

So fast = cluncky for You? Ok that's a one wierd way to look at it.

Yes it is a confirmation bias. As I said before heavy attack setups (including one bar HA) were a thing for quite some time before oakensoul. Nothing was stopping people who didn't like two bar dynamic playstyle to play as heavy attack setups. Nothing other than a fact they didn't like to produce less DPS. People were even soloing vet dungeons on heavy attack setups before oakensoul arrival which proves they were more than viable in real content. The main reason why so many people plays one bar heavy attack setups right now is because of how much DPS they produce.

Fun fact few years ago there was a time period when heavy attack rotations were a meta and it was hated and criticised to the point ZoS had to change that. Belive it or not but there is many people (not just high end players but also mid and low end ones) who find heavy attack rotations slow and boring and they don't want to use them preffering more dynamic and fast paced combat that also feels rewarding due to more steep learning curve.

You may say "well if they preffer two bar rotations than they should use them" but the problem is for those who are not experts at that, one bar heavy attack produces way better results so it's becoming a no brainer option wheter they like it or not.

Then if you like that fast paced combat and if people don't then how is it a problem if the two playstyle are fine ? Because from the other post it didn't seem you found enjoyment out of that 2 bar gameplay you speak of.

Also it is pretty obvious beginners should go for one bar setup if their goal is to be optimal, as it is easier by design. I mean I don't even know what you re arguing about a this point : it is supposed to be easier and an option for people who simply see the game as a video game and a place of enjoyment and not a place where you need to be a keyboard ninja to take on content...

The issue is that Brian Wheeler stated that they wanted to reward mastery in their U35 non-Q&A, so having HA builds actively compete with the much harder to master LA builds is problematic for that goal and really incentivizes people to abandon mastering their LA builds at the low and mid level to use a HA build for better DPS at an easy amount of effort. And let's look at it from another standpoint, should someone who uses training wheels on their bike be able to come in 3rd in the Tour de France? What incentive is there to move past HA builds to the LA mastery phase if you can HA build your way through almost all of the hardest content in the game? I'm happy that HA builds have given people the courage to try end game content, but like the rest of us you need to be prepared to adjust to nerfs and buffs that come with playing end game and tweak your builds in response. It's not the end of the world, you'll be all right...I'm a Templar main since 2014...I know a thing or two about nerfs in ESO.

People keep throwing around the word disability when not once has ZoS used the word "disability" that I can find when speaking about oakensoul or heavy attack builds - they speak of accessibility which generally means ease of access to content but not ease of mastery of that content. If I'm to take ZoS' comments at face value, heavy attack/oaken builds are meant as a gateway to access veteran content and then you start mastering the content and branching out to more complicated builds. HA builds are not meant to be a place to stay at given the dev's responses. I say this as one with an auto-immune arthritis so I know a thing or two about playing in less than desirable conditions if I have a flare up.

I mean the question is : are we really competing in veteran trials and PVE content as a whole ? PVE should be PVE it is a cooperative game, not a competitive one. From that standpoint people should understand the need for easy to play yet useful build and more complex ones. Because in a team people come in various amount of skill so you need both beginner setups and advanced ones. One people get comfortable with beginner setups they definitely can move toward more complex setups. People should also stop wanting to police what other player do. It's not just a matter of not being able to play the more complex builds, it s also an issue of not wanting to because a lot of players simply hate that gameplay. As an exemple there is a current thread about the oakensoul ring on reddit and the top rated answers are from people who state they simply hate 2 bars gameplay. So if you like the gameplay then fine go for it but if you don't then it is good a viable and effective alternative way exists. Else you will be the first to complain when nobody want to run vet content with that elitist club you got.

Also "mastery" can mean a lot of thing. TESO is a RPG and one could expect the difficulty in PVE carried by the mechanic of the encounters and not merely by battling against the interface (which, let's face it, is the case with 2 bars setups, at the end of the day you basically mix buffs, debuffs and a few dps spells but what oakensoul did show is the bars are bloated with passive spells and effects that you can live without if they are provided externally).

Galeriano wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

Jammy420 wrote: »

beer781993 wrote: »

Seeing people achieve immortal redeemer and dawnbringer in less than 3 weeks with 1 Bar builds, kinda makes me sad. Now they go for Godslayer. I know every player in that group on ps5 and I also know that they couldn't even clear the hardmode without 1 bar sorcs.


I needed months on a regular setup to achieve that and it was very sweaty. We thought we achieved something special but now we asked ourselves: "have we waisted our time".

Older titles are already easy to do with medium armor and that made the titles worth less already but that 1 bar thing absolutely annihilated any worth the titles ever had. Literally anyone can do this. You can stand in every Aoe, don't need to think and just hold 1 button. Don't know why all people embrace this.

Clearing dungeons and vet trials with this is fine but being able to clear trifectas effortless is another story, that's why I am greatful for the nerfs. It won't be useless, you can still clear all vet content but you probably won't be able to get trifectas done in time which is a good thing.

People are against having to practice nowadays, they expect the game to be changed to cater to them. A shame really. I still live by practice makes perfect.

[snip] some players are good at the game but have physical limitations that make continuous play not possible with weaving style play ?

[snip] some players just want o play solo and do their own thing and like this build becuase it’s more fun and isn’t guitar hero click click click ? And won’t affect your PvP or your trial stuff becusse they will never be in them ?

[snip] maybe you are expecting the game to cater to you ? By calling for nerfs against a play style mostly used by solo and casual players who have and never will have anything to do with your elite groups ?

[snip] it affects players for various reasons a vast majority who will never affect you all because a few Elite players exploited the build for high results.


[snip]

[Edited for Minor Baiting]

[snip]

It's been proven to You that one bar heavy attack sorc can produce over 80k DPS on a trial dummy just with 1 button by simply holding a heavy attack. When You did the same You got only 60k. Why is that? Is that because person in the video was holding one button better than You? Is that because Your disability doesnt let You to press and hold one button? We both know that's not the case because You've linked few of Your parses in this thread made by holding one button.

The person in the video is playing the same class as You, the same playstyle as You and by doing excatly the same thing which is holding one button produces almost 40% more dmg. 40%! Seriously just calm down for a moment sit down and think how is this possible. The answer is simple, You don't have finished setup and You are loosing almost 40% dmg because of that. So while You are here complaining on forums since few days that this 5-10% will make things impossible, You are missing almost 40% dmg just from simple technicalities that You can easily change because they have nothing to do with Your disability or Your skill level.

And before You will try to say that trial dummy is different than regular dummy and that You are still concerned about Your results without trial dummy buffs I did the parse with just holding heavy attack and refreshing elemental suscpetibility every now and then and I got 35k on the same dummy that You are getting 24k on, when using Your full rotation. Over 40% more with just 2 buttons. Here is the screen


So instead of complaining, educate Yourself about the game and make improvements to Your setup based on the knowledge gained. Right now You are spreading panic and misinformation based on the rigged results Your are getting due to not having finished setup. Take Your time and make proper adjustments to your setup. Your disability or skill have nothing to do with it. Is 5-10% nerf really that frightening when You can easily get 40% more dmg with few tweaks to Your setup?

[Edited for minor baiting and quote]

Galeriano wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

Jammy420 wrote: »

beer781993 wrote: »

Seeing people achieve immortal redeemer and dawnbringer in less than 3 weeks with 1 Bar builds, kinda makes me sad. Now they go for Godslayer. I know every player in that group on ps5 and I also know that they couldn't even clear the hardmode without 1 bar sorcs.


I needed months on a regular setup to achieve that and it was very sweaty. We thought we achieved something special but now we asked ourselves: "have we waisted our time".

Older titles are already easy to do with medium armor and that made the titles worth less already but that 1 bar thing absolutely annihilated any worth the titles ever had. Literally anyone can do this. You can stand in every Aoe, don't need to think and just hold 1 button. Don't know why all people embrace this.

Clearing dungeons and vet trials with this is fine but being able to clear trifectas effortless is another story, that's why I am greatful for the nerfs. It won't be useless, you can still clear all vet content but you probably won't be able to get trifectas done in time which is a good thing.

People are against having to practice nowadays, they expect the game to be changed to cater to them. A shame really. I still live by practice makes perfect.

[snip] some players are good at the game but have physical limitations that make continuous play not possible with weaving style play ?

[snip] some players just want o play solo and do their own thing and like this build becuase it’s more fun and isn’t guitar hero click click click ? And won’t affect your PvP or your trial stuff becusse they will never be in them ?

[snip] maybe you are expecting the game to cater to you ? By calling for nerfs against a play style mostly used by solo and casual players who have and never will have anything to do with your elite groups ?

[snip] it affects players for various reasons a vast majority who will never affect you all because a few Elite players exploited the build for high results.


[snip]

[Edited for Minor Baiting]

[snip]

It's been proven to You that one bar heavy attack sorc can produce over 80k DPS on a trial dummy just with 1 button by simply holding a heavy attack. When You did the same You got only 60k. Why is that? Is that because person in the video was holding one button better than You? Is that because Your disability doesnt let You to press and hold one button? We both know that's not the case because You've linked few of Your parses in this thread made by holding one button.

The person in the video is playing the same class as You, the same playstyle as You and by doing excatly the same thing which is holding one button produces almost 40% more dmg. 40%! Seriously just calm down for a moment sit down and think how is this possible. The answer is simple, You don't have finished setup and You are loosing almost 40% dmg because of that. So while You are here complaining on forums since few days that this 5-10% will make things impossible, You are missing almost 40% dmg just from simple technicalities that You can easily change because they have nothing to do with Your disability or Your skill level.

And before You will try to say that trial dummy is different than regular dummy and that You are still concerned about Your results without trial dummy buffs I did the parse with just holding heavy attack and refreshing elemental suscpetibility every now and then and I got 35k on the same dummy that You are getting 24k on, when using Your full rotation. Over 40% more with just 2 buttons. Here is the screen


So instead of complaining, educate Yourself about the game and make improvements to Your setup based on the knowledge gained. Right now You are spreading panic and misinformation based on the rigged results Your are getting due to not having finished setup. Take Your time and make proper adjustments to your setup. Your disability or skill have nothing to do with it. Is 5-10% nerf really that frightening when You can easily get 40% more dmg with few tweaks to Your setup?

[Edited for minor baiting and quote]

1. I don’t have a finished set up because I do not have enough transmutes I get booted from vet duengons trying to farm them in my current state and when it’s nerfed to less it will be even harder.

It takes forever with normal dungeons and I do not want to do anything with tot or PvP.

It’s a catch 22 if my dps sucks I won’t get into a vet if I don’t get into a vet I can’t get higher level gear monster sets and more transmutes.

2. It takes time to get to that place.

3. I’m still performing better now than after a nerf because well it’s a nerf. Aka I will perform even worse it’s not helping me making it do less damage.

4. I don’t care what you are doing that is my point I couldn’t give a hoot what you can do or can’t do. I’m a solo player I’m improving myself and working towards my own goals and this is a clear set back to progress I’m making it makes it more difficult it does not help me.

It’s like saying someone is gonna take 6% from your pay check every month when you make minimum wage. But it’s ok because the guy who runs the bank makes 6 figures.

I just don’t understand what makes people like you so angry / aggressive and so worried about what other people do. There is always people better than you or worse than you. [snip]

[Edited for Minor Baiting]

1. There is plenty of easy ways to farm transmutes without doing veteran content. Quick example You can make multiple low lv characters (minimum lv 10) and complete daily random normal dungeon to get 10 transmutes per day on each character. 5 characters equals 50 transmutes per day. It will take You like 1-1,5 hour to get 50-60 transmutes daily. After You will farm enough crystals You can delete all characters created to farm them.

2. Yes it takes time. it took everyone time but eventually You will get to that place like everyone else since it's just pure technicality.

3.After finishing Your setup You will perform way better despite the nerf than You are performing currently. We are talking about 40% increased dmg vs 5-10% DPS nerf.

4.What I did just proves that Your low DPS have nothing to do with Your disability or anything else You are implying. You should give a hoot what others are doing. Learning on Your own clealry didn't work for You so maybe it's time to listen to others. The biggest setback in Your progress is spending time here on forum complaining, instead of actively improving Your setup in game.

It's like saying someone will take 6% from Your paycheck but You can also get 40% paycheck increase if You will organise mess in Your papers. Instead of doing that You preffer to complain that organising papers is tedious and takes time and how bad that 6% paycheck cut will be.

[snip] Your numbers are low but You've been proven that the fault for that is simply in the fact You dont have fully completed setup and Your numbers will go up drastically once You will do it. You have videos, screenshots and explanations of that [snip]

[Edited for Minor Baiting]

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

Jammy420 wrote: »

beer781993 wrote: »

Seeing people achieve immortal redeemer and dawnbringer in less than 3 weeks with 1 Bar builds, kinda makes me sad. Now they go for Godslayer. I know every player in that group on ps5 and I also know that they couldn't even clear the hardmode without 1 bar sorcs.


I needed months on a regular setup to achieve that and it was very sweaty. We thought we achieved something special but now we asked ourselves: "have we waisted our time".

Older titles are already easy to do with medium armor and that made the titles worth less already but that 1 bar thing absolutely annihilated any worth the titles ever had. Literally anyone can do this. You can stand in every Aoe, don't need to think and just hold 1 button. Don't know why all people embrace this.

Clearing dungeons and vet trials with this is fine but being able to clear trifectas effortless is another story, that's why I am greatful for the nerfs. It won't be useless, you can still clear all vet content but you probably won't be able to get trifectas done in time which is a good thing.

People are against having to practice nowadays, they expect the game to be changed to cater to them. A shame really. I still live by practice makes perfect.

[snip] some players are good at the game but have physical limitations that make continuous play not possible with weaving style play ?

[snip] some players just want o play solo and do their own thing and like this build becuase it’s more fun and isn’t guitar hero click click click ? And won’t affect your PvP or your trial stuff becusse they will never be in them ?

[snip] maybe you are expecting the game to cater to you ? By calling for nerfs against a play style mostly used by solo and casual players who have and never will have anything to do with your elite groups ?

[snip] it affects players for various reasons a vast majority who will never affect you all because a few Elite players exploited the build for high results.


[snip]

[Edited for Minor Baiting]

[snip]

It's been proven to You that one bar heavy attack sorc can produce over 80k DPS on a trial dummy just with 1 button by simply holding a heavy attack. When You did the same You got only 60k. Why is that? Is that because person in the video was holding one button better than You? Is that because Your disability doesnt let You to press and hold one button? We both know that's not the case because You've linked few of Your parses in this thread made by holding one button.

The person in the video is playing the same class as You, the same playstyle as You and by doing excatly the same thing which is holding one button produces almost 40% more dmg. 40%! Seriously just calm down for a moment sit down and think how is this possible. The answer is simple, You don't have finished setup and You are loosing almost 40% dmg because of that. So while You are here complaining on forums since few days that this 5-10% will make things impossible, You are missing almost 40% dmg just from simple technicalities that You can easily change because they have nothing to do with Your disability or Your skill level.

And before You will try to say that trial dummy is different than regular dummy and that You are still concerned about Your results without trial dummy buffs I did the parse with just holding heavy attack and refreshing elemental suscpetibility every now and then and I got 35k on the same dummy that You are getting 24k on, when using Your full rotation. Over 40% more with just 2 buttons. Here is the screen


So instead of complaining, educate Yourself about the game and make improvements to Your setup based on the knowledge gained. Right now You are spreading panic and misinformation based on the rigged results Your are getting due to not having finished setup. Take Your time and make proper adjustments to your setup. Your disability or skill have nothing to do with it. Is 5-10% nerf really that frightening when You can easily get 40% more dmg with few tweaks to Your setup?

[Edited for minor baiting and quote]

How much of that DPS do you think comes from using poisons rather than an enchantment? Just the 3% or so visible on the parse, or is there more?

Also, it looks like you're relying on being a werewolf, specifically the Savage Strength passive that boosts spell/weapon damage a lot. Do you have to be transformed into a werewolf (and give up the use of any other ultimate) to get that benefit?