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Thoughts of a Random Guy on Necrom Changes to HA / Heavy-Attack builds & on Arcanist
-
TaSheen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »I'll be honest: the difference is likely marginal. If you're mostly solo I'd go with shock - it'll be a little more bursty for your everyday mobs and in dungeons it'll do almost as well as poison (maybe even better if no one else is providing good Minor Vulnerability uptime).
That's helpful, thanks!
Edited by TaSheen on April 20, 2023 11:40PM______________________________________________________
"But even in books, the heroes make mistakes, and there isn't always a happy ending." Mercedes Lackey, Into the West
PC NA, PC EU (non steam)- four accounts, many alts....1 -
Galeriano✭✭✭✭✭
✭isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »Wow, I'm pleasantly surprised by the overwhelming number of replies! Thank you to everyone who took the time to share their thoughts on this topic. It's great to see so many insightful comments.
Hopefully, ZOS will take note of the community's concerns and reconsider their proposed changes to Storm Master and Empower before they go live with Necrom. I've noticed that there have been some misunderstandings regarding the extent of the nerf, with some suggesting it's only up to around 6%. However, I want to clarify that the numbers I provided earlier are not mere estimations or guesses, but actual results obtained from testing DPS in combat. So here are the accurate numbers once again.
SM Live vs PTS
-23.99% max DPS (-17.82% avg DPS)
The above DPS loss will be even worse in actual combat scenarios, because Storm Master uptimes (and thus DPS) are likely to decrease even further. This is due to the fact that if a player misses the 3-second window to deal critical damage (which is common since most HA builds have a critical chance of around 40-50%), the Storm Master buff falls off.
By the way, it's worth noting that the Undaunted Infiltrator set is not a viable alternative to Storm Master. In fact, it still falls short in comparison. Here's why:
SM Live vs Undaunted Infiltrator (UI) PTS
-24.96% max DPS (-20.64% avg DPS)
If you're interested in verifying these test results for yourself, it's easy to do so by logging into the PTS. Here are some more details on how to replicate the experiment:
Test Assumptions:- The purpose of this test is to evaluate how the proposed changes affect Heavy Attack DPS, so we are only interested in sets and abilities that are specific to Heavy Attack builds. Therefore, we will exclude sets and abilities that are not relevant to this test, such as Pillar of Nirn and Volatile Familiar.
- To minimize confounding factors and isolate the variables under test, we need to control for various factors such as differences in builds, classes, player skill level, and random variations caused by Critical Rating and Critical Damage. The controlled variables for this experiment are:
- The combat ruleset (live vs PTS)
- The 5-piece body set used (Storm Master and Undaunted Infiltrator).
Body
1x L Slimecraw
1x Sergeant (heavy)
5x Strom Master or Undaunted Infiltrator (both medium)
Bar & Accessories
Sergeant's Mail (lightning, neck, ring)
Oakensoul Ring
Same abilities, attributes, CPs, mundus, and target dummy for every test build.
To minimize the impact of player-executed rotation on the test results, we used Heavy Attack weaving as the rotation for this experiment. The rotation used was as follows:- Wall
- Heavy Attack
- Heavy Attack
- Heavy Attack
- Heavy Attack
Results - see the beginning of this post (for details please see the image)
TL;DR
To summarize:
Based on the data collected, it appears that the proposed changes will result in a significant nerf to the maximum achievable Heavy Attack damage, with a reduction of approximately -24%. It's important to note that this test was conducted on a stationary target. In actual combat scenarios, Storm Master uptimes (and thus DPS) are likely to decrease even further. This is due to the fact that if a player misses the 3-second window to deal critical damage (which is common since most HA builds have a critical chance of around 40-50%), the Storm Master buff falls off.
I don’t think people realize how deadly of a hit this is giving to ha builds. I think it may render some of our builds for us low dps solo players useless.
I guess it’s back to sucking wind and doing quests with as little combat as possible now and not being able to use all the content I pay for. Unless they review these things and decide not to move forward with this.
Personally I was happy with my main character the dps I was getting for now and the content I was able to do because of it it (even tho it still needs a ton of work I was Still is a much better place I’d never reach other wise without this ).
Sorry, but the test you quoted is not accurate. One can't test the DPS loss like that because it will not be an accurate assessment on the impact of the build. You need to test the entire build or the numbers will be greatly skewed.
When testing a full build on PTS vs Live, you only see a 6% damage loss. This is because, while the nerf to Storm Master's may impact your HA damage by 20% or so, wearing it in tandem with other sets will mitigate that loss. HA damage also only accounts for around 70% of the DPS of a HA build, so your overall dps is not impacted by 20% like the quoted test states.
You can check my post in the PTS forum for an accurate comparison between full parses.
Oh ok. Well for someone like me who is only hitting 25k dps half finished with their build it’s a massive hit to me and will further make it harder to finish my build that’s already been nerfed.
It’s almost like you are defending the changes because it’s what you wanted it. Trust me I’ll never be able to out parse you lol
It’s not my goal. I was shooting for 30-40 k max and I’m only at 25k I’m striving to focus on the solo arenas and many people like me aren’t hitting high dps or even affect your groups what so ever.
Make a parse on 21M trial dummy not 3/6M one. It gives more reliable starting point to know where are You at with Your DPS.
I unfortunately don’t have one and my guild as far as I know doesn’t have one either.
You can teleport to the house of someone who have one if it's an open house. Just type this command in chat /script JumpToHouse("@house owner ID") and You will be able to teleport to the house of someone who have 21M trial dummy. So now just ask around for someone on Your server who have free to visit house with a trial dummy. There is plenty of people like that.
I’ll ask I don’t know anyone who has one and i do not believe my guilds have them.
But I’m telling your right now I’m not going to be holding down one button slaying gods it will be a very low and sad number. You are reallY overestimating it.
It's not that like have any expectations towards Your DPS. I just said that trial dummy is a more reliable source of data. You can also ask around for people like that in zone chats.
Just did a target blood nignt and got 19k dps
Once again this is holding down just the one button no dots. People are gravely over estimating the dps
Edit : with pets out but not activating them so without pets even less damage
This is actually what You can do just by holding down one button. You can literally put something heavy on LMB leave the room and still get over 80k.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOBjX6xPw20
Except I held down one button wether it’s me or a “book” holding it down its 19k not 80k. It feels like people are saying these things because they hate the play style and want to mock it.
Were you doing it on an Iron Atronach dummy? Iron atronach dummy will give you extra buffs; when people talk about these crazy high 70k+ parses they're talking about it on that dummy - everyone (or at least, everyone comparing parses) uses the Iron Atro dummy for standardization purposes.
No normal regular dummies no special buff ones I don’t even know anyone who has those to try
19k on a normal dummy should be 50k+ on an iron atronach dummy, so you arent as far behind as you'd think.
Cool I’ll feel more confident if I can find a way to test it myself. Hopefully someone has one to try out.
What platform are You on?
PC NA
Post this in chat /script JumpToHouse("user ID") replace user id with @mynameiselias (I couldnt post it there because it was showing some emotes.
It will teleport You to a house with trial dummies. Just go past the section with crafting station and behind You will find area with different trial dummies. Make sure to pick the right one most preferably 21M HP iron atronach. You can also charge Your ultimate before parse using well.Edited by Galeriano on April 20, 2023 11:44PM1 -
isadoraisacat✭✭✭✭✭CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »I'll be honest: the difference is likely marginal. If you're mostly solo I'd go with shock - it'll be a little more bursty for your everyday mobs and in dungeons it'll do almost as well as poison (maybe even better if no one else is providing good Minor Vulnerability uptime).
That's helpful, thanks!
I will admit poison sounds cool though I keep thinking of dark souls poison where it stacks up fast and eats up health quickly. Not sure if it’s like that in this game.0 -
TaSheen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭isadoraisacat wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »I'll be honest: the difference is likely marginal. If you're mostly solo I'd go with shock - it'll be a little more bursty for your everyday mobs and in dungeons it'll do almost as well as poison (maybe even better if no one else is providing good Minor Vulnerability uptime).
That's helpful, thanks!
I will admit poison sounds cool though I keep thinking of dark souls poison where it stacks up fast and eats up health quickly. Not sure if it’s like that in this game.
If you'd prefer poison I'm happy to do that. I'm not personally a poison user (in any game, not just this one) so I actually have no idea which is preferable for what you want to accomplish.______________________________________________________
"But even in books, the heroes make mistakes, and there isn't always a happy ending." Mercedes Lackey, Into the West
PC NA, PC EU (non steam)- four accounts, many alts....0 -
isadoraisacat✭✭✭✭✭isadoraisacat wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »I'll be honest: the difference is likely marginal. If you're mostly solo I'd go with shock - it'll be a little more bursty for your everyday mobs and in dungeons it'll do almost as well as poison (maybe even better if no one else is providing good Minor Vulnerability uptime).
That's helpful, thanks!
I will admit poison sounds cool though I keep thinking of dark souls poison where it stacks up fast and eats up health quickly. Not sure if it’s like that in this game.
If you'd prefer poison I'm happy to do that. I'm not personally a poison user (in any game, not just this one) so I actually have no idea which is preferable for what you want to accomplish.
Just going on advice so far the shock one sounds better for what I’m doing but poison sounds cool on paper. But I’ll go with whatever the experts say in terms of best performance0 -
isadoraisacat✭✭✭✭✭isadoraisacat wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »I'll be honest: the difference is likely marginal. If you're mostly solo I'd go with shock - it'll be a little more bursty for your everyday mobs and in dungeons it'll do almost as well as poison (maybe even better if no one else is providing good Minor Vulnerability uptime).
That's helpful, thanks!
I will admit poison sounds cool though I keep thinking of dark souls poison where it stacks up fast and eats up health quickly. Not sure if it’s like that in this game.
If you'd prefer poison I'm happy to do that. I'm not personally a poison user (in any game, not just this one) so I actually have no idea which is preferable for what you want to accomplish.
Also what is blood thursty ? Someone said my oakensoul should be changed to that from infused ?0 -
CameraBeardThePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »I'll be honest: the difference is likely marginal. If you're mostly solo I'd go with shock - it'll be a little more bursty for your everyday mobs and in dungeons it'll do almost as well as poison (maybe even better if no one else is providing good Minor Vulnerability uptime).
That's helpful, thanks!
I will admit poison sounds cool though I keep thinking of dark souls poison where it stacks up fast and eats up health quickly. Not sure if it’s like that in this game.
If you'd prefer poison I'm happy to do that. I'm not personally a poison user (in any game, not just this one) so I actually have no idea which is preferable for what you want to accomplish.
Also what is blood thursty ? Someone said my oakensoul should be changed to that from infused ?
Bloodthirsty is the highest damage jewelry trait. Instead of making your jewelry enchant stronger (thus adding more weapon/spell damage), it just increases your damage against the enemy based on how much health they have. It's actually a pretty good jump up in damage from infused; however, you sacrifice healing power (or sustain if you're using sustain glyphs) in return. Infused is generally better for solo players because of that fact.Edited by CameraBeardThePirate on April 20, 2023 11:53PM1 -
isadoraisacat✭✭✭✭✭CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »I'll be honest: the difference is likely marginal. If you're mostly solo I'd go with shock - it'll be a little more bursty for your everyday mobs and in dungeons it'll do almost as well as poison (maybe even better if no one else is providing good Minor Vulnerability uptime).
That's helpful, thanks!
I will admit poison sounds cool though I keep thinking of dark souls poison where it stacks up fast and eats up health quickly. Not sure if it’s like that in this game.
If you'd prefer poison I'm happy to do that. I'm not personally a poison user (in any game, not just this one) so I actually have no idea which is preferable for what you want to accomplish.
Also what is blood thursty ? Someone said my oakensoul should be changed to that from infused ?
Bloodthirsty is the highest damage jewelry trait. Instead of making your jewelry enchant stronger (thus adding more weapon/spell damage), it just increases your damage against the enemy based on how much health they have. It's actually a pretty good jump up in damage from infused; however, you sacrifice healing power (or sustain if you're using sustain glyphs) in return. Infused is generally better for solo players because of that fact.
Thank you than yeah I’m prob better off keeping it as my long term goal has more solo stuff in mind0 -
isadoraisacat✭✭✭✭✭isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »Wow, I'm pleasantly surprised by the overwhelming number of replies! Thank you to everyone who took the time to share their thoughts on this topic. It's great to see so many insightful comments.
Hopefully, ZOS will take note of the community's concerns and reconsider their proposed changes to Storm Master and Empower before they go live with Necrom. I've noticed that there have been some misunderstandings regarding the extent of the nerf, with some suggesting it's only up to around 6%. However, I want to clarify that the numbers I provided earlier are not mere estimations or guesses, but actual results obtained from testing DPS in combat. So here are the accurate numbers once again.
SM Live vs PTS
-23.99% max DPS (-17.82% avg DPS)
The above DPS loss will be even worse in actual combat scenarios, because Storm Master uptimes (and thus DPS) are likely to decrease even further. This is due to the fact that if a player misses the 3-second window to deal critical damage (which is common since most HA builds have a critical chance of around 40-50%), the Storm Master buff falls off.
By the way, it's worth noting that the Undaunted Infiltrator set is not a viable alternative to Storm Master. In fact, it still falls short in comparison. Here's why:
SM Live vs Undaunted Infiltrator (UI) PTS
-24.96% max DPS (-20.64% avg DPS)
If you're interested in verifying these test results for yourself, it's easy to do so by logging into the PTS. Here are some more details on how to replicate the experiment:
Test Assumptions:- The purpose of this test is to evaluate how the proposed changes affect Heavy Attack DPS, so we are only interested in sets and abilities that are specific to Heavy Attack builds. Therefore, we will exclude sets and abilities that are not relevant to this test, such as Pillar of Nirn and Volatile Familiar.
- To minimize confounding factors and isolate the variables under test, we need to control for various factors such as differences in builds, classes, player skill level, and random variations caused by Critical Rating and Critical Damage. The controlled variables for this experiment are:
- The combat ruleset (live vs PTS)
- The 5-piece body set used (Storm Master and Undaunted Infiltrator).
Body
1x L Slimecraw
1x Sergeant (heavy)
5x Strom Master or Undaunted Infiltrator (both medium)
Bar & Accessories
Sergeant's Mail (lightning, neck, ring)
Oakensoul Ring
Same abilities, attributes, CPs, mundus, and target dummy for every test build.
To minimize the impact of player-executed rotation on the test results, we used Heavy Attack weaving as the rotation for this experiment. The rotation used was as follows:- Wall
- Heavy Attack
- Heavy Attack
- Heavy Attack
- Heavy Attack
Results - see the beginning of this post (for details please see the image)
TL;DR
To summarize:
Based on the data collected, it appears that the proposed changes will result in a significant nerf to the maximum achievable Heavy Attack damage, with a reduction of approximately -24%. It's important to note that this test was conducted on a stationary target. In actual combat scenarios, Storm Master uptimes (and thus DPS) are likely to decrease even further. This is due to the fact that if a player misses the 3-second window to deal critical damage (which is common since most HA builds have a critical chance of around 40-50%), the Storm Master buff falls off.
I don’t think people realize how deadly of a hit this is giving to ha builds. I think it may render some of our builds for us low dps solo players useless.
I guess it’s back to sucking wind and doing quests with as little combat as possible now and not being able to use all the content I pay for. Unless they review these things and decide not to move forward with this.
Personally I was happy with my main character the dps I was getting for now and the content I was able to do because of it it (even tho it still needs a ton of work I was Still is a much better place I’d never reach other wise without this ).
Sorry, but the test you quoted is not accurate. One can't test the DPS loss like that because it will not be an accurate assessment on the impact of the build. You need to test the entire build or the numbers will be greatly skewed.
When testing a full build on PTS vs Live, you only see a 6% damage loss. This is because, while the nerf to Storm Master's may impact your HA damage by 20% or so, wearing it in tandem with other sets will mitigate that loss. HA damage also only accounts for around 70% of the DPS of a HA build, so your overall dps is not impacted by 20% like the quoted test states.
You can check my post in the PTS forum for an accurate comparison between full parses.
Oh ok. Well for someone like me who is only hitting 25k dps half finished with their build it’s a massive hit to me and will further make it harder to finish my build that’s already been nerfed.
It’s almost like you are defending the changes because it’s what you wanted it. Trust me I’ll never be able to out parse you lol
It’s not my goal. I was shooting for 30-40 k max and I’m only at 25k I’m striving to focus on the solo arenas and many people like me aren’t hitting high dps or even affect your groups what so ever.
Make a parse on 21M trial dummy not 3/6M one. It gives more reliable starting point to know where are You at with Your DPS.
I unfortunately don’t have one and my guild as far as I know doesn’t have one either.
You can teleport to the house of someone who have one if it's an open house. Just type this command in chat /script JumpToHouse("@house owner ID") and You will be able to teleport to the house of someone who have 21M trial dummy. So now just ask around for someone on Your server who have free to visit house with a trial dummy. There is plenty of people like that.
I’ll ask I don’t know anyone who has one and i do not believe my guilds have them.
But I’m telling your right now I’m not going to be holding down one button slaying gods it will be a very low and sad number. You are reallY overestimating it.
It's not that like have any expectations towards Your DPS. I just said that trial dummy is a more reliable source of data. You can also ask around for people like that in zone chats.
Just did a target blood nignt and got 19k dps
Once again this is holding down just the one button no dots. People are gravely over estimating the dps
Edit : with pets out but not activating them so without pets even less damage
This is actually what You can do just by holding down one button. You can literally put something heavy on LMB leave the room and still get over 80k.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOBjX6xPw20
Except I held down one button wether it’s me or a “book” holding it down its 19k not 80k. It feels like people are saying these things because they hate the play style and want to mock it.
Were you doing it on an Iron Atronach dummy? Iron atronach dummy will give you extra buffs; when people talk about these crazy high 70k+ parses they're talking about it on that dummy - everyone (or at least, everyone comparing parses) uses the Iron Atro dummy for standardization purposes.
No normal regular dummies no special buff ones I don’t even know anyone who has those to try
19k on a normal dummy should be 50k+ on an iron atronach dummy, so you arent as far behind as you'd think.
Cool I’ll feel more confident if I can find a way to test it myself. Hopefully someone has one to try out.
What platform are You on?
PC NA
Post this in chat /script JumpToHouse("user ID") replace user id with @mynameiselias (I couldnt post it there because it was showing some emotes.
It will teleport You to a house with trial dummies. Just go past the section with crafting station and behind You will find area with different trial dummies. Make sure to pick the right one most preferably 21M HP iron atronach. You can also charge Your ultimate before parse using well.
I just saw this now thank you !0 -
TaSheen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@CameraBeardThePirate - so please post me a list for enchants to start with. Then others can chime in overnight - and tomorrow I'll hopefully have a solid list of enchants that will help her out the most.
C'mon guys - anyone else with advice, post it up please!______________________________________________________
"But even in books, the heroes make mistakes, and there isn't always a happy ending." Mercedes Lackey, Into the West
PC NA, PC EU (non steam)- four accounts, many alts....1 -
isadoraisacat✭✭✭✭✭isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »Wow, I'm pleasantly surprised by the overwhelming number of replies! Thank you to everyone who took the time to share their thoughts on this topic. It's great to see so many insightful comments.
Hopefully, ZOS will take note of the community's concerns and reconsider their proposed changes to Storm Master and Empower before they go live with Necrom. I've noticed that there have been some misunderstandings regarding the extent of the nerf, with some suggesting it's only up to around 6%. However, I want to clarify that the numbers I provided earlier are not mere estimations or guesses, but actual results obtained from testing DPS in combat. So here are the accurate numbers once again.
SM Live vs PTS
-23.99% max DPS (-17.82% avg DPS)
The above DPS loss will be even worse in actual combat scenarios, because Storm Master uptimes (and thus DPS) are likely to decrease even further. This is due to the fact that if a player misses the 3-second window to deal critical damage (which is common since most HA builds have a critical chance of around 40-50%), the Storm Master buff falls off.
By the way, it's worth noting that the Undaunted Infiltrator set is not a viable alternative to Storm Master. In fact, it still falls short in comparison. Here's why:
SM Live vs Undaunted Infiltrator (UI) PTS
-24.96% max DPS (-20.64% avg DPS)
If you're interested in verifying these test results for yourself, it's easy to do so by logging into the PTS. Here are some more details on how to replicate the experiment:
Test Assumptions:- The purpose of this test is to evaluate how the proposed changes affect Heavy Attack DPS, so we are only interested in sets and abilities that are specific to Heavy Attack builds. Therefore, we will exclude sets and abilities that are not relevant to this test, such as Pillar of Nirn and Volatile Familiar.
- To minimize confounding factors and isolate the variables under test, we need to control for various factors such as differences in builds, classes, player skill level, and random variations caused by Critical Rating and Critical Damage. The controlled variables for this experiment are:
- The combat ruleset (live vs PTS)
- The 5-piece body set used (Storm Master and Undaunted Infiltrator).
Body
1x L Slimecraw
1x Sergeant (heavy)
5x Strom Master or Undaunted Infiltrator (both medium)
Bar & Accessories
Sergeant's Mail (lightning, neck, ring)
Oakensoul Ring
Same abilities, attributes, CPs, mundus, and target dummy for every test build.
To minimize the impact of player-executed rotation on the test results, we used Heavy Attack weaving as the rotation for this experiment. The rotation used was as follows:- Wall
- Heavy Attack
- Heavy Attack
- Heavy Attack
- Heavy Attack
Results - see the beginning of this post (for details please see the image)
TL;DR
To summarize:
Based on the data collected, it appears that the proposed changes will result in a significant nerf to the maximum achievable Heavy Attack damage, with a reduction of approximately -24%. It's important to note that this test was conducted on a stationary target. In actual combat scenarios, Storm Master uptimes (and thus DPS) are likely to decrease even further. This is due to the fact that if a player misses the 3-second window to deal critical damage (which is common since most HA builds have a critical chance of around 40-50%), the Storm Master buff falls off.
I don’t think people realize how deadly of a hit this is giving to ha builds. I think it may render some of our builds for us low dps solo players useless.
I guess it’s back to sucking wind and doing quests with as little combat as possible now and not being able to use all the content I pay for. Unless they review these things and decide not to move forward with this.
Personally I was happy with my main character the dps I was getting for now and the content I was able to do because of it it (even tho it still needs a ton of work I was Still is a much better place I’d never reach other wise without this ).
Sorry, but the test you quoted is not accurate. One can't test the DPS loss like that because it will not be an accurate assessment on the impact of the build. You need to test the entire build or the numbers will be greatly skewed.
When testing a full build on PTS vs Live, you only see a 6% damage loss. This is because, while the nerf to Storm Master's may impact your HA damage by 20% or so, wearing it in tandem with other sets will mitigate that loss. HA damage also only accounts for around 70% of the DPS of a HA build, so your overall dps is not impacted by 20% like the quoted test states.
You can check my post in the PTS forum for an accurate comparison between full parses.
Oh ok. Well for someone like me who is only hitting 25k dps half finished with their build it’s a massive hit to me and will further make it harder to finish my build that’s already been nerfed.
It’s almost like you are defending the changes because it’s what you wanted it. Trust me I’ll never be able to out parse you lol
It’s not my goal. I was shooting for 30-40 k max and I’m only at 25k I’m striving to focus on the solo arenas and many people like me aren’t hitting high dps or even affect your groups what so ever.
Make a parse on 21M trial dummy not 3/6M one. It gives more reliable starting point to know where are You at with Your DPS.
I unfortunately don’t have one and my guild as far as I know doesn’t have one either.
You can teleport to the house of someone who have one if it's an open house. Just type this command in chat /script JumpToHouse("@house owner ID") and You will be able to teleport to the house of someone who have 21M trial dummy. So now just ask around for someone on Your server who have free to visit house with a trial dummy. There is plenty of people like that.
I’ll ask I don’t know anyone who has one and i do not believe my guilds have them.
But I’m telling your right now I’m not going to be holding down one button slaying gods it will be a very low and sad number. You are reallY overestimating it.
It's not that like have any expectations towards Your DPS. I just said that trial dummy is a more reliable source of data. You can also ask around for people like that in zone chats.
Just did a target blood nignt and got 19k dps
Once again this is holding down just the one button no dots. People are gravely over estimating the dps
Edit : with pets out but not activating them so without pets even less damage
This is actually what You can do just by holding down one button. You can literally put something heavy on LMB leave the room and still get over 80k.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOBjX6xPw20
Except I held down one button wether it’s me or a “book” holding it down its 19k not 80k. It feels like people are saying these things because they hate the play style and want to mock it.
Were you doing it on an Iron Atronach dummy? Iron atronach dummy will give you extra buffs; when people talk about these crazy high 70k+ parses they're talking about it on that dummy - everyone (or at least, everyone comparing parses) uses the Iron Atro dummy for standardization purposes.
No normal regular dummies no special buff ones I don’t even know anyone who has those to try
19k on a normal dummy should be 50k+ on an iron atronach dummy, so you arent as far behind as you'd think.
Cool I’ll feel more confident if I can find a way to test it myself. Hopefully someone has one to try out.
What platform are You on?
PC NA
Post this in chat /script JumpToHouse("user ID") replace user id with @mynameiselias (I couldnt post it there because it was showing some emotes.
It will teleport You to a house with trial dummies. Just go past the section with crafting station and behind You will find area with different trial dummies. Make sure to pick the right one most preferably 21M HP iron atronach. You can also charge Your ultimate before parse using well.
Results on trial dummy
What group content would this be good for 59k minus the nerf what content can I do based on this ?
Edit :
Final parse starting with a light attack weave between each dot that I could do I ended with 60k parse on the dummy.
What wound the results look like after nerf approx ?Edited by isadoraisacat on April 21, 2023 2:12AM0 -
endgamesmug✭✭✭✭I have an iron atronarch practice dummy if anyone needs it , i also have resources to help anyone struggling with upgrading their gear in here.1
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isadoraisacat✭✭✭✭✭endgamesmug wrote: »I have an iron atronarch practice dummy if anyone needs it , i also have resources to help anyone struggling with upgrading their gear in here.
Thanks yeah ✋ lol definitely need helpEdited by isadoraisacat on April 21, 2023 2:39AM0 -
endgamesmug✭✭✭✭isadoraisacat wrote: »endgamesmug wrote: »I have an iron atronarch practice dummy if anyone needs it , i also have resources to help anyone struggling with upgrading their gear in here.
Thanks yeah ✋ lol definitely need help
Ill be getting on in a few hours ill send you a mail ingame then go from there?Edited by endgamesmug on April 21, 2023 2:57AM0 -
isadoraisacat✭✭✭✭✭endgamesmug wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »endgamesmug wrote: »I have an iron atronarch practice dummy if anyone needs it , i also have resources to help anyone struggling with upgrading their gear in here.
Thanks yeah ✋ lol definitely need help
Ill be getting on in a few hours ill send you a mail ingame then take steps from there?
Sure sounds good thanks !1 -
isadoraisacat✭✭✭✭✭
Just for your notice, Target Bloodknight isn't the correct dummy everyone's talking about. You should be looking for one of these, every other dummy doesn't provide you with buffs and your results will be much lower because of this (you will be dealing at least double your damage).isadoraisacat wrote: »Your results are in sir you can see at the end of this thread in a 5 mill dummy you are not correct.
I must say right away that this is not the DPS that you will have in real content and no one expects you to deal that much in a real fight. It's just an equalized test in an equalized environment.
I didn’t see this before sorry but on that dummy I got 60k0 -
isadoraisacat✭✭✭✭✭isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »I do not understand the devs reasoning - so what if the HA builds were reaching or in rare cases surpassing LA builds?
Where does it state that LA builds are the ‘sanctioned’ build?
This is not, as many have said previously, “Play how you like” 🤣
(And way to go to discriminate against those that find LA weaving/bar swapping difficult due to disabilities)
It says on the steam page basically play how you want. So I’d gather there is no developer determined set way to play. So I’d hope they would reconsider these changes.
Play how you want only means that there is various levels of content for different people.
Do you want to fish, you can do that. Do you want to pick flowers, you can do that too. PVP, Trials, solo content, overland questing, you can do all of that as well. You can pick the things you want to do, and do those things.
Play how you want DOES NOT mean that you can do all of those things with anything. You need to be properly equipped/prepared for them. You may want to fish, but you must have the necessary bait to do so. You may want to pick flowers, but certain CP and skill points are going to be necessary to be most efficient at it.
You can PVP, but if you don't equip yourself properly, you are not going to be effective.
Play how you want does not mean that whatever way you want to approach the different parts of content available are going to work. You can farm gear all you want, but it won't win you a ToT match or build your ToT deck. Just like being ill-equipped for PVE content isn't going to get you through that content.
That is all, it is available for you to do. But you still have to prepare yourself properly for it.
I don’t see a “play how you want as long as it’s weaving” in this anywhere.
This is not what we are talking about.
It says mix different armors and skills
Together for your own play style what is storm master / sergeant and oaken soul? And the associated dots we use with the build it’s all armors and skills. Seems like we are following zos meaning perfectly here with a HA build.
Mix any armors and skills. But if we can't agree that someone running Armor Master and Adept rider, and using only tank and healing skills, is going to be flat out awful in a DPS role in PVE content, then I really don't even know how to continue this conversation.
You can play any content you want, you can wear any set or no set at all. But you still need to make sure what you are wearing is effective for the content you want to do. It's that simple.
None of this even matters, because Storm Masters and Sergeant's will still be perfectly viable for vet content, including trials, next patch. But, you can also wear another set instead of Storm Masters and be just as viable. Because the DPs loss isn't that bad. It's not bad at all.
I even did some math in the other thread, I'll even add some more here.
On LIVE right now, on a Storm Master and Sergeants Oaken sorc build.
With pets out, but Zero skills being activated. Just holding the heavy attack button. The build does 29K DPS on a 3 million dummy. The base one, with no pen or debuffs. 29K DPS.
Activating skills bumps that up to 33K DPS. So, Heavy attacks+Storm Master +Sergeants+Shock enchant = 29K DPS.
That combo is roughly 87% of the 33K DPs parse.
So, a baseline of 29K DPS on that 3M with doing nothing but holding heavy attack. That portion of the parse is the only part that is losing damage. So let's say the doomsaying 20% amount that keeps getting thrown around, that means that portion will do 23.2K DPS + now the skills portion of the parse, you get 28.2K DPS, an overall 15% nerf to a full parse.
That 15% is worst case scenario, and as others have already shown, not the actual case. But even so, using your 25K limit, that 15% nerf is 21K damage.
Honestly, if people are going to reject a player for 21K DPS on a 3M dummy, they were going to reject you for 25K. Especially when a 29K parse on a 3M is possible without activating any skills and just heavy attacking.
At the same time, plenty of groups literally don't care as long as you aren't dying or not following mechanics.
Clearly the set up was affective we wouldn’t be here if it wasn’t the case.
[snip]
I am literally showing you the numbers from the oakenbuild I use and have saved in my armorer. I cleared VMA on it this morning for my best score ever, and I run it in vet trials.
The nerf in PTS is nothing of any import on the build. It will be fine post nerf and still be stronger than the average solo DPS setup.
If we really want to make a comparison, my two bar solo build also does vet content, including vet trials and dungeons, and barely does 22K DPS on the 3M dummy. This heavy attack build does 10K more DPS, and even after the nerf will still do at least 5K more DPS. And no-one has turned down my solo build for vet content because I know how to do the role and I don't try to do trifecta prog groups. I play with like-minded players. And if your build is doing 20K+ DPS on a 3M dummy, it is effective enough for all content in the game.
And I’m literally sharing my experiences that I’ve been bullied for using this build. I’ve been kicked out a group dungeons at the last boss and mocked.
I don’t know which dummy is 3m I’m referring to the standard skeleton dummy not the parsing high end one with all the buffs I never did that dummy as I don’t have one.
You can’t compare your self to me we are different people different players with different abilities different disabilities and different levels of experience.
The skeleton is the 3M. 3M refers to the health the dummy has.
Honestly, personal experiences and anecdotes are irrelevant. You get bullied for using the build. Find better groups to run the build with. I don't get bullied for using the build, because I run with like minded people. It's is an easy fix to make. Don't play the game with people who don't want to play it with you the way you want to play it.
In the case of this nerf, the only thing that matters are objective numbers. And objectively, oakensoul heavy builds are going to be fine, at all levels of play. And objectively, I can hold 1 single button down for 2 minutes just as much as you can on a heavy attack build. And objectively on an oakensorc build, doing so gives you 29K DPS on the 3M dummy, without pressing a single skill. This does not require effort, this does not require timing. This require clicking and holding a trigger or mouse button, which is the minimum requirement for a heavy attack builds functionality.
I can’t always “find better groups” I work 7 days a week. I have a family to care for. When I come on if people in guilds aren’t on and I need transmuted to progress my character I have to deal with random people to do what I need to do. Not everyone is just online at the same time.
Everyone’s experience is relevant.
That’s just a snide thing to say.
I’m aware 3m refers to the health of the dummy im saying i use the normal skeleton one and never used the one to use referring too.
I mean if you want me to record my self playing holding down one button and not doing the damage you say ? I can gladly do it. I’m up for the challenge does anyone have a 3m dummy I can borrow ?
Becuase I bet you it will take me like 10
Minutes or more to kill it with much less dps. If I struggle on the basic skeleton.
The normal skeleton is the only 3M skeleton. Or at the very least, that is exactly what I am talking about.
On a trial dummy, just holding heavy attack down and not using skills nets around 70 DPS on the same build.
Your results are in sir you can see at the end of this thread in a 5 mill dummy you are not correct.
So, here is where you assess your build and see why you aren't hitting that obtainable number.
What blue CP slottables are you running?
I know you said your gear isn't fully upgraded, but that isn't going to do all that much. I am assuming you have the full sergeant and storm master setup. What is the other 1 piece set you are wearing, slimecraw is the best choice here. And your Mundus?
Of the two 5 piece sets, which are you running on your body and which on your jewelry. It makes a difference if the heavy set is on your body.
I’m using slimcraw as the monster helm.
Im using all the slottables recommended at lower amounts of points as I’m still low ep. All my gear is purple except for my staff which has a bad trait on it. 2 pieces have only divines on them. And I’m using the thief.
Once again the point is if they cut my build short farming for transmutes to make my build better will be much harder.
2 farming for xp
Will less easy due to not being able to take on world bosses anymore or things That gain more xp.
I’m well aware my build isn’t done… but the set up is by the book exactly what it needs to be for this build.
I just need more cp to add more points and to gold out my gear with better traits.
And yes 5 pieces of seargets and storm master plus slim craw with oakensoul.
And another point is why all this changes and push now if it will kick me back to this level say I gain 28k form these changes wil be knocked back down to 25 k anyway 🤷🏻♂️ so all this work to stay where in at and not progress.
I assure you, hitting 24K dps and losing 2-3K isn't going to impact your ability to do any of those things. As I already said, my normal build hits less than your incomplete build and it literally does all content and solos vet dungeons, trifecta Vateshran speed run craglorn vet trials, hardmodes, DLC vet dungeons and trials. All with less DPS. 20K DPS is more than enough for content in this game unless you are score pushing.
Latest if you claim 20k is enough why are people so worried about HA attack doing more damage it should matter than.
I mean, look at my post history of the last few months of literally defending heavy attack oaken builds as fine.
The only time I had a problem with oakensoul was when it was released and it was broken in PVP and players could chain drop storm atros. Since they fixed that, zero complaints and in fact defense of them.
But let's be clear, on live right now, they truly are outperforming. I just scored the best score for Vet Maelstrom I have ever scored on my sorc using this build, with a tenth of the effort it takes my solo build to do the same content. It is, objectively, pretty absurd.
But, I also think it has enough drawbacks that it makes it ok. Simultaneously, I can see that it needed a reasonable adjustment. And frankly, this seems reasonable. A small nerf to empower and a set adjustment. Set adjustments happen all the time. And, let's be real here, when a set is performing so well that it is practically a requirement on a build, it is ALWAYS bound to get nerfed. There are other sets though, that will work just as well, that didn't get nerfed. Probably just about the same DPS that you are getting now with those sets and those sets don't rely on a critting fully charged heavy attack to work.
I understand what you are saying but you have to understand I have physical limitations and zero experience with mmo style of play. So comparing you to me is like comparing a black belt to a white belt.
I’m still working on my build this set back just makes doing that harder is my initial point. That’s all.
I think being nerfed just never feels good. Especially for everyone who isn’t the very small minority of top tier players these decisions seem to be based around. It’s like being 50 in a marathon of 100 people and being knocked down and being told it’s okay, just sprint to to get back to 50th. Easy to say from the vantage point of those who aren’t nerfed or who actively desired these nerfs based on numbers being thrown out that were accomplished by a tiny minutiae of the player base.
I will concede that the YouTube video posted is kinda dumb lol (meaning I’m surprised at this much dps for just holding down a button). Has there been any nerfs since 4 months ago or is that where we are now? Again I’m not playing sorc and only got this last week.
Top tier players are not even running with this setup so it's hardly a decision based around them. It's mid and low tier players that still want to play something else that got affected the most by oakensoul HA setups.
No nerfs since then. You can still get over 80k on live server by pressing 1 button.
Ty for the info. I don’t really think just holding your finger down for that much and doing nothing else is great game design so something to consider.
@isodora. It’s awful but I hope you report anyone who lets you play until the last boss and then vote kicks you. This happened to me last week when I pigged into a 3 man premade. One of them went afk none of them said anything so I pulled and killed a boss with the tank. The healer then spent the rest of the dungeon emoting and calling me names - odd how her keyboard worked then but not to say they were afk and not to pull a boss. Then I got booted at the final boss. I reported but was to,d I’ll never know if any action was taken or not due to policy, but I like to think they got at least a warning.
Unfortunately I didn’t get their names I was too upset to think straight.
As for just Holding the button. I still have a rotation I keep my dots going my pets activated and “weave” then between each heavy attack. It’s not just doing nothing. I’m very skilled with tactical stuff my issue is my actual hands are not optimal due to injury and and carpal tunnel. If I didn’t have these issues I wouldn’t mind a one bar rotation with more dots to manage. My only real issue with eso combat is the bar swap it’s the one thing I never liked doing. But I CAN weave I just can’t do it for long without pain.
I’m sorry to hear about your hand pain and I completely understand. This is supposed to be a fun game and enjoyable relief at the end of the day. I also weave in my dots when I play this and am also not getting those numbers. Lol. Maybe I just just hold a button instead haha. You mentioned still having some work to do with traits and maybe with those and some more cp this will still be fun enough if the nerf moves ahead. If it does we will have to accept and hopefully still have fun if the change isn’t too dire.
I usually start my rotation with light attack waves to start the dots than I weave in the dots. I’ll try it just holding down the button but I do prefer more action than that. I still am managing my dots and I CAN weave. This is just what I need to do due to physical limitation. Maybe after hand surgery things will be different for me but I can’t really say now.
I’ll see after i improve my gear how much it boosts me up I do have quite a bit of things I need to do and the build is far from finished.0 -
FrancisCrawford✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »Yeah I don’t have gold enchants yet either I’m not capable of making them yet
but yeah mostly meant getting divines on all my gear / gold staff with best trait best enchants etc but I’m very far from being able to do all
That
If you're on PC NA or PC EU, tell me what enchants you need and how many of each type and I will craft them for you (no charge) and send them along tomorrow. I would need your in game ID of course.
Oh wow thanks a lot. I’m on NA server pc.
My id should be the same as my idea here isadoraisacat
Well for my staff I definitely want the one that gives the most damage for staff. Than for my jewelry and amors prob ones that gives the most boost to magic (I actually don’t know a lot about enchanting ) so maybe you can recommend?
Either use poison or shock enchant on the staff, all magicka Glyphs on the armor, all physical or magical harm Glyphs on jewelry (really doesn't matter as the only difference is a slight bit of stam or mag sustain)
Ok cool yeah I’m a magsorc
Poison really ? I thought that would be for a non magic build. And that’s better than a weapon damage one ? I think on it now it’s “life drain” which is useless as my pet can heal me to full very fast plus my companion who is a healer anyway.
From people smarter than me, on an Oakenbuild the weapon damage Berserk glyph doesn't outperform Poison or Flame. Poison or flame (same dps) will be the highest damage in a group setting, and shock will likely eek out Poison or flame in a more solo setting (as you'll have better minor Vulnerability uptime)
Since I’m mostly solo save for some group stuff but focus on solo what would you recommend that would also work still if I ended up in a nornal dungeon or vet dungeon at some point ?
I'll be honest: the difference is likely marginal. If you're mostly solo I'd go with shock - it'll be a little more bursty for your everyday mobs and in dungeons it'll do almost as well as poison (maybe even better if no one else is providing good Minor Vulnerability uptime).
Does a Shock enchantment matter much for Off-Balance uptime, or are the heavy attacks themselves likely to proc Concussion sufficiently often?
I haven't tried very hard yet to test, although now that we have a PTS again ...
(Context -- I duo a lot, so one of us should probably have Infused Crusher.)0 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »I do not understand the devs reasoning - so what if the HA builds were reaching or in rare cases surpassing LA builds?
Where does it state that LA builds are the ‘sanctioned’ build?
This is not, as many have said previously, “Play how you like” 🤣
(And way to go to discriminate against those that find LA weaving/bar swapping difficult due to disabilities)
It says on the steam page basically play how you want. So I’d gather there is no developer determined set way to play. So I’d hope they would reconsider these changes.
Play how you want only means that there is various levels of content for different people.
Do you want to fish, you can do that. Do you want to pick flowers, you can do that too. PVP, Trials, solo content, overland questing, you can do all of that as well. You can pick the things you want to do, and do those things.
Play how you want DOES NOT mean that you can do all of those things with anything. You need to be properly equipped/prepared for them. You may want to fish, but you must have the necessary bait to do so. You may want to pick flowers, but certain CP and skill points are going to be necessary to be most efficient at it.
You can PVP, but if you don't equip yourself properly, you are not going to be effective.
Play how you want does not mean that whatever way you want to approach the different parts of content available are going to work. You can farm gear all you want, but it won't win you a ToT match or build your ToT deck. Just like being ill-equipped for PVE content isn't going to get you through that content.
That is all, it is available for you to do. But you still have to prepare yourself properly for it.
I don’t see a “play how you want as long as it’s weaving” in this anywhere.
This is not what we are talking about.
It says mix different armors and skills
Together for your own play style what is storm master / sergeant and oaken soul? And the associated dots we use with the build it’s all armors and skills. Seems like we are following zos meaning perfectly here with a HA build.
Mix any armors and skills. But if we can't agree that someone running Armor Master and Adept rider, and using only tank and healing skills, is going to be flat out awful in a DPS role in PVE content, then I really don't even know how to continue this conversation.
You can play any content you want, you can wear any set or no set at all. But you still need to make sure what you are wearing is effective for the content you want to do. It's that simple.
None of this even matters, because Storm Masters and Sergeant's will still be perfectly viable for vet content, including trials, next patch. But, you can also wear another set instead of Storm Masters and be just as viable. Because the DPs loss isn't that bad. It's not bad at all.
I even did some math in the other thread, I'll even add some more here.
On LIVE right now, on a Storm Master and Sergeants Oaken sorc build.
With pets out, but Zero skills being activated. Just holding the heavy attack button. The build does 29K DPS on a 3 million dummy. The base one, with no pen or debuffs. 29K DPS.
Activating skills bumps that up to 33K DPS. So, Heavy attacks+Storm Master +Sergeants+Shock enchant = 29K DPS.
That combo is roughly 87% of the 33K DPs parse.
So, a baseline of 29K DPS on that 3M with doing nothing but holding heavy attack. That portion of the parse is the only part that is losing damage. So let's say the doomsaying 20% amount that keeps getting thrown around, that means that portion will do 23.2K DPS + now the skills portion of the parse, you get 28.2K DPS, an overall 15% nerf to a full parse.
That 15% is worst case scenario, and as others have already shown, not the actual case. But even so, using your 25K limit, that 15% nerf is 21K damage.
Honestly, if people are going to reject a player for 21K DPS on a 3M dummy, they were going to reject you for 25K. Especially when a 29K parse on a 3M is possible without activating any skills and just heavy attacking.
At the same time, plenty of groups literally don't care as long as you aren't dying or not following mechanics.
Clearly the set up was affective we wouldn’t be here if it wasn’t the case.
[snip]
I am literally showing you the numbers from the oakenbuild I use and have saved in my armorer. I cleared VMA on it this morning for my best score ever, and I run it in vet trials.
The nerf in PTS is nothing of any import on the build. It will be fine post nerf and still be stronger than the average solo DPS setup.
If we really want to make a comparison, my two bar solo build also does vet content, including vet trials and dungeons, and barely does 22K DPS on the 3M dummy. This heavy attack build does 10K more DPS, and even after the nerf will still do at least 5K more DPS. And no-one has turned down my solo build for vet content because I know how to do the role and I don't try to do trifecta prog groups. I play with like-minded players. And if your build is doing 20K+ DPS on a 3M dummy, it is effective enough for all content in the game.
And I’m literally sharing my experiences that I’ve been bullied for using this build. I’ve been kicked out a group dungeons at the last boss and mocked.
I don’t know which dummy is 3m I’m referring to the standard skeleton dummy not the parsing high end one with all the buffs I never did that dummy as I don’t have one.
You can’t compare your self to me we are different people different players with different abilities different disabilities and different levels of experience.
The skeleton is the 3M. 3M refers to the health the dummy has.
Honestly, personal experiences and anecdotes are irrelevant. You get bullied for using the build. Find better groups to run the build with. I don't get bullied for using the build, because I run with like minded people. It's is an easy fix to make. Don't play the game with people who don't want to play it with you the way you want to play it.
In the case of this nerf, the only thing that matters are objective numbers. And objectively, oakensoul heavy builds are going to be fine, at all levels of play. And objectively, I can hold 1 single button down for 2 minutes just as much as you can on a heavy attack build. And objectively on an oakensorc build, doing so gives you 29K DPS on the 3M dummy, without pressing a single skill. This does not require effort, this does not require timing. This require clicking and holding a trigger or mouse button, which is the minimum requirement for a heavy attack builds functionality.
I can’t always “find better groups” I work 7 days a week. I have a family to care for. When I come on if people in guilds aren’t on and I need transmuted to progress my character I have to deal with random people to do what I need to do. Not everyone is just online at the same time.
Everyone’s experience is relevant.
That’s just a snide thing to say.
I’m aware 3m refers to the health of the dummy im saying i use the normal skeleton one and never used the one to use referring too.
I mean if you want me to record my self playing holding down one button and not doing the damage you say ? I can gladly do it. I’m up for the challenge does anyone have a 3m dummy I can borrow ?
Becuase I bet you it will take me like 10
Minutes or more to kill it with much less dps. If I struggle on the basic skeleton.
The normal skeleton is the only 3M skeleton. Or at the very least, that is exactly what I am talking about.
On a trial dummy, just holding heavy attack down and not using skills nets around 70 DPS on the same build.
Your results are in sir you can see at the end of this thread in a 5 mill dummy you are not correct.
So, here is where you assess your build and see why you aren't hitting that obtainable number.
What blue CP slottables are you running?
I know you said your gear isn't fully upgraded, but that isn't going to do all that much. I am assuming you have the full sergeant and storm master setup. What is the other 1 piece set you are wearing, slimecraw is the best choice here. And your Mundus?
Of the two 5 piece sets, which are you running on your body and which on your jewelry. It makes a difference if the heavy set is on your body.
I’m using slimcraw as the monster helm.
Im using all the slottables recommended at lower amounts of points as I’m still low ep. All my gear is purple except for my staff which has a bad trait on it. 2 pieces have only divines on them. And I’m using the thief.
Once again the point is if they cut my build short farming for transmutes to make my build better will be much harder.
2 farming for xp
Will less easy due to not being able to take on world bosses anymore or things That gain more xp.
I’m well aware my build isn’t done… but the set up is by the book exactly what it needs to be for this build.
I just need more cp to add more points and to gold out my gear with better traits.
And yes 5 pieces of seargets and storm master plus slim craw with oakensoul.
And another point is why all this changes and push now if it will kick me back to this level say I gain 28k form these changes wil be knocked back down to 25 k anyway 🤷🏻♂️ so all this work to stay where in at and not progress.
I assure you, hitting 24K dps and losing 2-3K isn't going to impact your ability to do any of those things. As I already said, my normal build hits less than your incomplete build and it literally does all content and solos vet dungeons, trifecta Vateshran speed run craglorn vet trials, hardmodes, DLC vet dungeons and trials. All with less DPS. 20K DPS is more than enough for content in this game unless you are score pushing.
Latest if you claim 20k is enough why are people so worried about HA attack doing more damage it should matter than.
I mean, look at my post history of the last few months of literally defending heavy attack oaken builds as fine.
The only time I had a problem with oakensoul was when it was released and it was broken in PVP and players could chain drop storm atros. Since they fixed that, zero complaints and in fact defense of them.
But let's be clear, on live right now, they truly are outperforming. I just scored the best score for Vet Maelstrom I have ever scored on my sorc using this build, with a tenth of the effort it takes my solo build to do the same content. It is, objectively, pretty absurd.
But, I also think it has enough drawbacks that it makes it ok. Simultaneously, I can see that it needed a reasonable adjustment. And frankly, this seems reasonable. A small nerf to empower and a set adjustment. Set adjustments happen all the time. And, let's be real here, when a set is performing so well that it is practically a requirement on a build, it is ALWAYS bound to get nerfed. There are other sets though, that will work just as well, that didn't get nerfed. Probably just about the same DPS that you are getting now with those sets and those sets don't rely on a critting fully charged heavy attack to work.
I understand what you are saying but you have to understand I have physical limitations and zero experience with mmo style of play. So comparing you to me is like comparing a black belt to a white belt.
I’m still working on my build this set back just makes doing that harder is my initial point. That’s all.
I think being nerfed just never feels good. Especially for everyone who isn’t the very small minority of top tier players these decisions seem to be based around. It’s like being 50 in a marathon of 100 people and being knocked down and being told it’s okay, just sprint to to get back to 50th. Easy to say from the vantage point of those who aren’t nerfed or who actively desired these nerfs based on numbers being thrown out that were accomplished by a tiny minutiae of the player base.
I will concede that the YouTube video posted is kinda dumb lol (meaning I’m surprised at this much dps for just holding down a button). Has there been any nerfs since 4 months ago or is that where we are now? Again I’m not playing sorc and only got this last week.
Top tier players are not even running with this setup so it's hardly a decision based around them. It's mid and low tier players that still want to play something else that got affected the most by oakensoul HA setups.
No nerfs since then. You can still get over 80k on live server by pressing 1 button.
Ty for the info. I don’t really think just holding your finger down for that much and doing nothing else is great game design so something to consider.
@isodora. It’s awful but I hope you report anyone who lets you play until the last boss and then vote kicks you. This happened to me last week when I pigged into a 3 man premade. One of them went afk none of them said anything so I pulled and killed a boss with the tank. The healer then spent the rest of the dungeon emoting and calling me names - odd how her keyboard worked then but not to say they were afk and not to pull a boss. Then I got booted at the final boss. I reported but was to,d I’ll never know if any action was taken or not due to policy, but I like to think they got at least a warning.
Unfortunately I didn’t get their names I was too upset to think straight.
As for just Holding the button. I still have a rotation I keep my dots going my pets activated and “weave” then between each heavy attack. It’s not just doing nothing. I’m very skilled with tactical stuff my issue is my actual hands are not optimal due to injury and and carpal tunnel. If I didn’t have these issues I wouldn’t mind a one bar rotation with more dots to manage. My only real issue with eso combat is the bar swap it’s the one thing I never liked doing. But I CAN weave I just can’t do it for long without pain.
I’m sorry to hear about your hand pain and I completely understand. This is supposed to be a fun game and enjoyable relief at the end of the day. I also weave in my dots when I play this and am also not getting those numbers. Lol. Maybe I just just hold a button instead haha. You mentioned still having some work to do with traits and maybe with those and some more cp this will still be fun enough if the nerf moves ahead. If it does we will have to accept and hopefully still have fun if the change isn’t too dire.
I usually start my rotation with light attack waves to start the dots than I weave in the dots. I’ll try it just holding down the button but I do prefer more action than that. I still am managing my dots and I CAN weave. This is just what I need to do due to physical limitation. Maybe after hand surgery things will be different for me but I can’t really say now.
I’ll see after i improve my gear how much it boosts me up I do have quite a bit of things I need to do and the build is far from finished.
The key to the rotation with heavy attacks is to use the skills as the thing you weave. So you always hold heavy attack, and then you activate the skill on cool down. But never let go of the heavy attack. While heavy attacking, activating a skill will queue it up, and then when your heavy ends, the skill will go off. Then immediately after that, the next heavy will start. No light attacks necessary if you approach it like that.1 -
isadoraisacat✭✭✭✭✭isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »I do not understand the devs reasoning - so what if the HA builds were reaching or in rare cases surpassing LA builds?
Where does it state that LA builds are the ‘sanctioned’ build?
This is not, as many have said previously, “Play how you like” 🤣
(And way to go to discriminate against those that find LA weaving/bar swapping difficult due to disabilities)
It says on the steam page basically play how you want. So I’d gather there is no developer determined set way to play. So I’d hope they would reconsider these changes.
Play how you want only means that there is various levels of content for different people.
Do you want to fish, you can do that. Do you want to pick flowers, you can do that too. PVP, Trials, solo content, overland questing, you can do all of that as well. You can pick the things you want to do, and do those things.
Play how you want DOES NOT mean that you can do all of those things with anything. You need to be properly equipped/prepared for them. You may want to fish, but you must have the necessary bait to do so. You may want to pick flowers, but certain CP and skill points are going to be necessary to be most efficient at it.
You can PVP, but if you don't equip yourself properly, you are not going to be effective.
Play how you want does not mean that whatever way you want to approach the different parts of content available are going to work. You can farm gear all you want, but it won't win you a ToT match or build your ToT deck. Just like being ill-equipped for PVE content isn't going to get you through that content.
That is all, it is available for you to do. But you still have to prepare yourself properly for it.
I don’t see a “play how you want as long as it’s weaving” in this anywhere.
This is not what we are talking about.
It says mix different armors and skills
Together for your own play style what is storm master / sergeant and oaken soul? And the associated dots we use with the build it’s all armors and skills. Seems like we are following zos meaning perfectly here with a HA build.
Mix any armors and skills. But if we can't agree that someone running Armor Master and Adept rider, and using only tank and healing skills, is going to be flat out awful in a DPS role in PVE content, then I really don't even know how to continue this conversation.
You can play any content you want, you can wear any set or no set at all. But you still need to make sure what you are wearing is effective for the content you want to do. It's that simple.
None of this even matters, because Storm Masters and Sergeant's will still be perfectly viable for vet content, including trials, next patch. But, you can also wear another set instead of Storm Masters and be just as viable. Because the DPs loss isn't that bad. It's not bad at all.
I even did some math in the other thread, I'll even add some more here.
On LIVE right now, on a Storm Master and Sergeants Oaken sorc build.
With pets out, but Zero skills being activated. Just holding the heavy attack button. The build does 29K DPS on a 3 million dummy. The base one, with no pen or debuffs. 29K DPS.
Activating skills bumps that up to 33K DPS. So, Heavy attacks+Storm Master +Sergeants+Shock enchant = 29K DPS.
That combo is roughly 87% of the 33K DPs parse.
So, a baseline of 29K DPS on that 3M with doing nothing but holding heavy attack. That portion of the parse is the only part that is losing damage. So let's say the doomsaying 20% amount that keeps getting thrown around, that means that portion will do 23.2K DPS + now the skills portion of the parse, you get 28.2K DPS, an overall 15% nerf to a full parse.
That 15% is worst case scenario, and as others have already shown, not the actual case. But even so, using your 25K limit, that 15% nerf is 21K damage.
Honestly, if people are going to reject a player for 21K DPS on a 3M dummy, they were going to reject you for 25K. Especially when a 29K parse on a 3M is possible without activating any skills and just heavy attacking.
At the same time, plenty of groups literally don't care as long as you aren't dying or not following mechanics.
Clearly the set up was affective we wouldn’t be here if it wasn’t the case.
[snip]
I am literally showing you the numbers from the oakenbuild I use and have saved in my armorer. I cleared VMA on it this morning for my best score ever, and I run it in vet trials.
The nerf in PTS is nothing of any import on the build. It will be fine post nerf and still be stronger than the average solo DPS setup.
If we really want to make a comparison, my two bar solo build also does vet content, including vet trials and dungeons, and barely does 22K DPS on the 3M dummy. This heavy attack build does 10K more DPS, and even after the nerf will still do at least 5K more DPS. And no-one has turned down my solo build for vet content because I know how to do the role and I don't try to do trifecta prog groups. I play with like-minded players. And if your build is doing 20K+ DPS on a 3M dummy, it is effective enough for all content in the game.
And I’m literally sharing my experiences that I’ve been bullied for using this build. I’ve been kicked out a group dungeons at the last boss and mocked.
I don’t know which dummy is 3m I’m referring to the standard skeleton dummy not the parsing high end one with all the buffs I never did that dummy as I don’t have one.
You can’t compare your self to me we are different people different players with different abilities different disabilities and different levels of experience.
The skeleton is the 3M. 3M refers to the health the dummy has.
Honestly, personal experiences and anecdotes are irrelevant. You get bullied for using the build. Find better groups to run the build with. I don't get bullied for using the build, because I run with like minded people. It's is an easy fix to make. Don't play the game with people who don't want to play it with you the way you want to play it.
In the case of this nerf, the only thing that matters are objective numbers. And objectively, oakensoul heavy builds are going to be fine, at all levels of play. And objectively, I can hold 1 single button down for 2 minutes just as much as you can on a heavy attack build. And objectively on an oakensorc build, doing so gives you 29K DPS on the 3M dummy, without pressing a single skill. This does not require effort, this does not require timing. This require clicking and holding a trigger or mouse button, which is the minimum requirement for a heavy attack builds functionality.
I can’t always “find better groups” I work 7 days a week. I have a family to care for. When I come on if people in guilds aren’t on and I need transmuted to progress my character I have to deal with random people to do what I need to do. Not everyone is just online at the same time.
Everyone’s experience is relevant.
That’s just a snide thing to say.
I’m aware 3m refers to the health of the dummy im saying i use the normal skeleton one and never used the one to use referring too.
I mean if you want me to record my self playing holding down one button and not doing the damage you say ? I can gladly do it. I’m up for the challenge does anyone have a 3m dummy I can borrow ?
Becuase I bet you it will take me like 10
Minutes or more to kill it with much less dps. If I struggle on the basic skeleton.
The normal skeleton is the only 3M skeleton. Or at the very least, that is exactly what I am talking about.
On a trial dummy, just holding heavy attack down and not using skills nets around 70 DPS on the same build.
Your results are in sir you can see at the end of this thread in a 5 mill dummy you are not correct.
So, here is where you assess your build and see why you aren't hitting that obtainable number.
What blue CP slottables are you running?
I know you said your gear isn't fully upgraded, but that isn't going to do all that much. I am assuming you have the full sergeant and storm master setup. What is the other 1 piece set you are wearing, slimecraw is the best choice here. And your Mundus?
Of the two 5 piece sets, which are you running on your body and which on your jewelry. It makes a difference if the heavy set is on your body.
I’m using slimcraw as the monster helm.
Im using all the slottables recommended at lower amounts of points as I’m still low ep. All my gear is purple except for my staff which has a bad trait on it. 2 pieces have only divines on them. And I’m using the thief.
Once again the point is if they cut my build short farming for transmutes to make my build better will be much harder.
2 farming for xp
Will less easy due to not being able to take on world bosses anymore or things That gain more xp.
I’m well aware my build isn’t done… but the set up is by the book exactly what it needs to be for this build.
I just need more cp to add more points and to gold out my gear with better traits.
And yes 5 pieces of seargets and storm master plus slim craw with oakensoul.
And another point is why all this changes and push now if it will kick me back to this level say I gain 28k form these changes wil be knocked back down to 25 k anyway 🤷🏻♂️ so all this work to stay where in at and not progress.
I assure you, hitting 24K dps and losing 2-3K isn't going to impact your ability to do any of those things. As I already said, my normal build hits less than your incomplete build and it literally does all content and solos vet dungeons, trifecta Vateshran speed run craglorn vet trials, hardmodes, DLC vet dungeons and trials. All with less DPS. 20K DPS is more than enough for content in this game unless you are score pushing.
Latest if you claim 20k is enough why are people so worried about HA attack doing more damage it should matter than.
I mean, look at my post history of the last few months of literally defending heavy attack oaken builds as fine.
The only time I had a problem with oakensoul was when it was released and it was broken in PVP and players could chain drop storm atros. Since they fixed that, zero complaints and in fact defense of them.
But let's be clear, on live right now, they truly are outperforming. I just scored the best score for Vet Maelstrom I have ever scored on my sorc using this build, with a tenth of the effort it takes my solo build to do the same content. It is, objectively, pretty absurd.
But, I also think it has enough drawbacks that it makes it ok. Simultaneously, I can see that it needed a reasonable adjustment. And frankly, this seems reasonable. A small nerf to empower and a set adjustment. Set adjustments happen all the time. And, let's be real here, when a set is performing so well that it is practically a requirement on a build, it is ALWAYS bound to get nerfed. There are other sets though, that will work just as well, that didn't get nerfed. Probably just about the same DPS that you are getting now with those sets and those sets don't rely on a critting fully charged heavy attack to work.
I understand what you are saying but you have to understand I have physical limitations and zero experience with mmo style of play. So comparing you to me is like comparing a black belt to a white belt.
I’m still working on my build this set back just makes doing that harder is my initial point. That’s all.
I think being nerfed just never feels good. Especially for everyone who isn’t the very small minority of top tier players these decisions seem to be based around. It’s like being 50 in a marathon of 100 people and being knocked down and being told it’s okay, just sprint to to get back to 50th. Easy to say from the vantage point of those who aren’t nerfed or who actively desired these nerfs based on numbers being thrown out that were accomplished by a tiny minutiae of the player base.
I will concede that the YouTube video posted is kinda dumb lol (meaning I’m surprised at this much dps for just holding down a button). Has there been any nerfs since 4 months ago or is that where we are now? Again I’m not playing sorc and only got this last week.
Top tier players are not even running with this setup so it's hardly a decision based around them. It's mid and low tier players that still want to play something else that got affected the most by oakensoul HA setups.
No nerfs since then. You can still get over 80k on live server by pressing 1 button.
Ty for the info. I don’t really think just holding your finger down for that much and doing nothing else is great game design so something to consider.
@isodora. It’s awful but I hope you report anyone who lets you play until the last boss and then vote kicks you. This happened to me last week when I pigged into a 3 man premade. One of them went afk none of them said anything so I pulled and killed a boss with the tank. The healer then spent the rest of the dungeon emoting and calling me names - odd how her keyboard worked then but not to say they were afk and not to pull a boss. Then I got booted at the final boss. I reported but was to,d I’ll never know if any action was taken or not due to policy, but I like to think they got at least a warning.
Unfortunately I didn’t get their names I was too upset to think straight.
As for just Holding the button. I still have a rotation I keep my dots going my pets activated and “weave” then between each heavy attack. It’s not just doing nothing. I’m very skilled with tactical stuff my issue is my actual hands are not optimal due to injury and and carpal tunnel. If I didn’t have these issues I wouldn’t mind a one bar rotation with more dots to manage. My only real issue with eso combat is the bar swap it’s the one thing I never liked doing. But I CAN weave I just can’t do it for long without pain.
I’m sorry to hear about your hand pain and I completely understand. This is supposed to be a fun game and enjoyable relief at the end of the day. I also weave in my dots when I play this and am also not getting those numbers. Lol. Maybe I just just hold a button instead haha. You mentioned still having some work to do with traits and maybe with those and some more cp this will still be fun enough if the nerf moves ahead. If it does we will have to accept and hopefully still have fun if the change isn’t too dire.
I usually start my rotation with light attack waves to start the dots than I weave in the dots. I’ll try it just holding down the button but I do prefer more action than that. I still am managing my dots and I CAN weave. This is just what I need to do due to physical limitation. Maybe after hand surgery things will be different for me but I can’t really say now.
I’ll see after i improve my gear how much it boosts me up I do have quite a bit of things I need to do and the build is far from finished.
The key to the rotation with heavy attacks is to use the skills as the thing you weave. So you always hold heavy attack, and then you activate the skill on cool down. But never let go of the heavy attack. While heavy attacking, activating a skill will queue it up, and then when your heavy ends, the skill will go off. Then immediately after that, the next heavy will start. No light attacks necessary if you approach it like that.
Gotcha I noticed when I start the beginning of the rotation I start with the first dot but when I wave in the light attack with the first 2 dots than began doing exactly what you said after I got slightly higher results for 60k I tested it twice on each way. But I will try it again your way and see too.0 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »I do not understand the devs reasoning - so what if the HA builds were reaching or in rare cases surpassing LA builds?
Where does it state that LA builds are the ‘sanctioned’ build?
This is not, as many have said previously, “Play how you like” 🤣
(And way to go to discriminate against those that find LA weaving/bar swapping difficult due to disabilities)
It says on the steam page basically play how you want. So I’d gather there is no developer determined set way to play. So I’d hope they would reconsider these changes.
Play how you want only means that there is various levels of content for different people.
Do you want to fish, you can do that. Do you want to pick flowers, you can do that too. PVP, Trials, solo content, overland questing, you can do all of that as well. You can pick the things you want to do, and do those things.
Play how you want DOES NOT mean that you can do all of those things with anything. You need to be properly equipped/prepared for them. You may want to fish, but you must have the necessary bait to do so. You may want to pick flowers, but certain CP and skill points are going to be necessary to be most efficient at it.
You can PVP, but if you don't equip yourself properly, you are not going to be effective.
Play how you want does not mean that whatever way you want to approach the different parts of content available are going to work. You can farm gear all you want, but it won't win you a ToT match or build your ToT deck. Just like being ill-equipped for PVE content isn't going to get you through that content.
That is all, it is available for you to do. But you still have to prepare yourself properly for it.
I don’t see a “play how you want as long as it’s weaving” in this anywhere.
This is not what we are talking about.
It says mix different armors and skills
Together for your own play style what is storm master / sergeant and oaken soul? And the associated dots we use with the build it’s all armors and skills. Seems like we are following zos meaning perfectly here with a HA build.
Mix any armors and skills. But if we can't agree that someone running Armor Master and Adept rider, and using only tank and healing skills, is going to be flat out awful in a DPS role in PVE content, then I really don't even know how to continue this conversation.
You can play any content you want, you can wear any set or no set at all. But you still need to make sure what you are wearing is effective for the content you want to do. It's that simple.
None of this even matters, because Storm Masters and Sergeant's will still be perfectly viable for vet content, including trials, next patch. But, you can also wear another set instead of Storm Masters and be just as viable. Because the DPs loss isn't that bad. It's not bad at all.
I even did some math in the other thread, I'll even add some more here.
On LIVE right now, on a Storm Master and Sergeants Oaken sorc build.
With pets out, but Zero skills being activated. Just holding the heavy attack button. The build does 29K DPS on a 3 million dummy. The base one, with no pen or debuffs. 29K DPS.
Activating skills bumps that up to 33K DPS. So, Heavy attacks+Storm Master +Sergeants+Shock enchant = 29K DPS.
That combo is roughly 87% of the 33K DPs parse.
So, a baseline of 29K DPS on that 3M with doing nothing but holding heavy attack. That portion of the parse is the only part that is losing damage. So let's say the doomsaying 20% amount that keeps getting thrown around, that means that portion will do 23.2K DPS + now the skills portion of the parse, you get 28.2K DPS, an overall 15% nerf to a full parse.
That 15% is worst case scenario, and as others have already shown, not the actual case. But even so, using your 25K limit, that 15% nerf is 21K damage.
Honestly, if people are going to reject a player for 21K DPS on a 3M dummy, they were going to reject you for 25K. Especially when a 29K parse on a 3M is possible without activating any skills and just heavy attacking.
At the same time, plenty of groups literally don't care as long as you aren't dying or not following mechanics.
Clearly the set up was affective we wouldn’t be here if it wasn’t the case.
[snip]
I am literally showing you the numbers from the oakenbuild I use and have saved in my armorer. I cleared VMA on it this morning for my best score ever, and I run it in vet trials.
The nerf in PTS is nothing of any import on the build. It will be fine post nerf and still be stronger than the average solo DPS setup.
If we really want to make a comparison, my two bar solo build also does vet content, including vet trials and dungeons, and barely does 22K DPS on the 3M dummy. This heavy attack build does 10K more DPS, and even after the nerf will still do at least 5K more DPS. And no-one has turned down my solo build for vet content because I know how to do the role and I don't try to do trifecta prog groups. I play with like-minded players. And if your build is doing 20K+ DPS on a 3M dummy, it is effective enough for all content in the game.
And I’m literally sharing my experiences that I’ve been bullied for using this build. I’ve been kicked out a group dungeons at the last boss and mocked.
I don’t know which dummy is 3m I’m referring to the standard skeleton dummy not the parsing high end one with all the buffs I never did that dummy as I don’t have one.
You can’t compare your self to me we are different people different players with different abilities different disabilities and different levels of experience.
The skeleton is the 3M. 3M refers to the health the dummy has.
Honestly, personal experiences and anecdotes are irrelevant. You get bullied for using the build. Find better groups to run the build with. I don't get bullied for using the build, because I run with like minded people. It's is an easy fix to make. Don't play the game with people who don't want to play it with you the way you want to play it.
In the case of this nerf, the only thing that matters are objective numbers. And objectively, oakensoul heavy builds are going to be fine, at all levels of play. And objectively, I can hold 1 single button down for 2 minutes just as much as you can on a heavy attack build. And objectively on an oakensorc build, doing so gives you 29K DPS on the 3M dummy, without pressing a single skill. This does not require effort, this does not require timing. This require clicking and holding a trigger or mouse button, which is the minimum requirement for a heavy attack builds functionality.
I can’t always “find better groups” I work 7 days a week. I have a family to care for. When I come on if people in guilds aren’t on and I need transmuted to progress my character I have to deal with random people to do what I need to do. Not everyone is just online at the same time.
Everyone’s experience is relevant.
That’s just a snide thing to say.
I’m aware 3m refers to the health of the dummy im saying i use the normal skeleton one and never used the one to use referring too.
I mean if you want me to record my self playing holding down one button and not doing the damage you say ? I can gladly do it. I’m up for the challenge does anyone have a 3m dummy I can borrow ?
Becuase I bet you it will take me like 10
Minutes or more to kill it with much less dps. If I struggle on the basic skeleton.
The normal skeleton is the only 3M skeleton. Or at the very least, that is exactly what I am talking about.
On a trial dummy, just holding heavy attack down and not using skills nets around 70 DPS on the same build.
Your results are in sir you can see at the end of this thread in a 5 mill dummy you are not correct.
So, here is where you assess your build and see why you aren't hitting that obtainable number.
What blue CP slottables are you running?
I know you said your gear isn't fully upgraded, but that isn't going to do all that much. I am assuming you have the full sergeant and storm master setup. What is the other 1 piece set you are wearing, slimecraw is the best choice here. And your Mundus?
Of the two 5 piece sets, which are you running on your body and which on your jewelry. It makes a difference if the heavy set is on your body.
I’m using slimcraw as the monster helm.
Im using all the slottables recommended at lower amounts of points as I’m still low ep. All my gear is purple except for my staff which has a bad trait on it. 2 pieces have only divines on them. And I’m using the thief.
Once again the point is if they cut my build short farming for transmutes to make my build better will be much harder.
2 farming for xp
Will less easy due to not being able to take on world bosses anymore or things That gain more xp.
I’m well aware my build isn’t done… but the set up is by the book exactly what it needs to be for this build.
I just need more cp to add more points and to gold out my gear with better traits.
And yes 5 pieces of seargets and storm master plus slim craw with oakensoul.
And another point is why all this changes and push now if it will kick me back to this level say I gain 28k form these changes wil be knocked back down to 25 k anyway 🤷🏻♂️ so all this work to stay where in at and not progress.
I assure you, hitting 24K dps and losing 2-3K isn't going to impact your ability to do any of those things. As I already said, my normal build hits less than your incomplete build and it literally does all content and solos vet dungeons, trifecta Vateshran speed run craglorn vet trials, hardmodes, DLC vet dungeons and trials. All with less DPS. 20K DPS is more than enough for content in this game unless you are score pushing.
Latest if you claim 20k is enough why are people so worried about HA attack doing more damage it should matter than.
I mean, look at my post history of the last few months of literally defending heavy attack oaken builds as fine.
The only time I had a problem with oakensoul was when it was released and it was broken in PVP and players could chain drop storm atros. Since they fixed that, zero complaints and in fact defense of them.
But let's be clear, on live right now, they truly are outperforming. I just scored the best score for Vet Maelstrom I have ever scored on my sorc using this build, with a tenth of the effort it takes my solo build to do the same content. It is, objectively, pretty absurd.
But, I also think it has enough drawbacks that it makes it ok. Simultaneously, I can see that it needed a reasonable adjustment. And frankly, this seems reasonable. A small nerf to empower and a set adjustment. Set adjustments happen all the time. And, let's be real here, when a set is performing so well that it is practically a requirement on a build, it is ALWAYS bound to get nerfed. There are other sets though, that will work just as well, that didn't get nerfed. Probably just about the same DPS that you are getting now with those sets and those sets don't rely on a critting fully charged heavy attack to work.
I understand what you are saying but you have to understand I have physical limitations and zero experience with mmo style of play. So comparing you to me is like comparing a black belt to a white belt.
I’m still working on my build this set back just makes doing that harder is my initial point. That’s all.
I think being nerfed just never feels good. Especially for everyone who isn’t the very small minority of top tier players these decisions seem to be based around. It’s like being 50 in a marathon of 100 people and being knocked down and being told it’s okay, just sprint to to get back to 50th. Easy to say from the vantage point of those who aren’t nerfed or who actively desired these nerfs based on numbers being thrown out that were accomplished by a tiny minutiae of the player base.
I will concede that the YouTube video posted is kinda dumb lol (meaning I’m surprised at this much dps for just holding down a button). Has there been any nerfs since 4 months ago or is that where we are now? Again I’m not playing sorc and only got this last week.
Top tier players are not even running with this setup so it's hardly a decision based around them. It's mid and low tier players that still want to play something else that got affected the most by oakensoul HA setups.
No nerfs since then. You can still get over 80k on live server by pressing 1 button.
Ty for the info. I don’t really think just holding your finger down for that much and doing nothing else is great game design so something to consider.
@isodora. It’s awful but I hope you report anyone who lets you play until the last boss and then vote kicks you. This happened to me last week when I pigged into a 3 man premade. One of them went afk none of them said anything so I pulled and killed a boss with the tank. The healer then spent the rest of the dungeon emoting and calling me names - odd how her keyboard worked then but not to say they were afk and not to pull a boss. Then I got booted at the final boss. I reported but was to,d I’ll never know if any action was taken or not due to policy, but I like to think they got at least a warning.
Unfortunately I didn’t get their names I was too upset to think straight.
As for just Holding the button. I still have a rotation I keep my dots going my pets activated and “weave” then between each heavy attack. It’s not just doing nothing. I’m very skilled with tactical stuff my issue is my actual hands are not optimal due to injury and and carpal tunnel. If I didn’t have these issues I wouldn’t mind a one bar rotation with more dots to manage. My only real issue with eso combat is the bar swap it’s the one thing I never liked doing. But I CAN weave I just can’t do it for long without pain.
I’m sorry to hear about your hand pain and I completely understand. This is supposed to be a fun game and enjoyable relief at the end of the day. I also weave in my dots when I play this and am also not getting those numbers. Lol. Maybe I just just hold a button instead haha. You mentioned still having some work to do with traits and maybe with those and some more cp this will still be fun enough if the nerf moves ahead. If it does we will have to accept and hopefully still have fun if the change isn’t too dire.
I usually start my rotation with light attack waves to start the dots than I weave in the dots. I’ll try it just holding down the button but I do prefer more action than that. I still am managing my dots and I CAN weave. This is just what I need to do due to physical limitation. Maybe after hand surgery things will be different for me but I can’t really say now.
I’ll see after i improve my gear how much it boosts me up I do have quite a bit of things I need to do and the build is far from finished.
The key to the rotation with heavy attacks is to use the skills as the thing you weave. So you always hold heavy attack, and then you activate the skill on cool down. But never let go of the heavy attack. While heavy attacking, activating a skill will queue it up, and then when your heavy ends, the skill will go off. Then immediately after that, the next heavy will start. No light attacks necessary if you approach it like that.
Gotcha I noticed when I start the beginning of the rotation I start with the first dot but when I wave in the light attack with the first 2 dots than began doing exactly what you said after I got slightly higher results for 60k I tested it twice on each way. But I will try it again your way and see too.
Another parse tip for sorc is to pre-cast the pet's active ability before hitting the dummy. Gives you that dot already started at the beginning of the parse.0 -
isadoraisacat✭✭✭✭✭isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »I do not understand the devs reasoning - so what if the HA builds were reaching or in rare cases surpassing LA builds?
Where does it state that LA builds are the ‘sanctioned’ build?
This is not, as many have said previously, “Play how you like” 🤣
(And way to go to discriminate against those that find LA weaving/bar swapping difficult due to disabilities)
It says on the steam page basically play how you want. So I’d gather there is no developer determined set way to play. So I’d hope they would reconsider these changes.
Play how you want only means that there is various levels of content for different people.
Do you want to fish, you can do that. Do you want to pick flowers, you can do that too. PVP, Trials, solo content, overland questing, you can do all of that as well. You can pick the things you want to do, and do those things.
Play how you want DOES NOT mean that you can do all of those things with anything. You need to be properly equipped/prepared for them. You may want to fish, but you must have the necessary bait to do so. You may want to pick flowers, but certain CP and skill points are going to be necessary to be most efficient at it.
You can PVP, but if you don't equip yourself properly, you are not going to be effective.
Play how you want does not mean that whatever way you want to approach the different parts of content available are going to work. You can farm gear all you want, but it won't win you a ToT match or build your ToT deck. Just like being ill-equipped for PVE content isn't going to get you through that content.
That is all, it is available for you to do. But you still have to prepare yourself properly for it.
I don’t see a “play how you want as long as it’s weaving” in this anywhere.
This is not what we are talking about.
It says mix different armors and skills
Together for your own play style what is storm master / sergeant and oaken soul? And the associated dots we use with the build it’s all armors and skills. Seems like we are following zos meaning perfectly here with a HA build.
Mix any armors and skills. But if we can't agree that someone running Armor Master and Adept rider, and using only tank and healing skills, is going to be flat out awful in a DPS role in PVE content, then I really don't even know how to continue this conversation.
You can play any content you want, you can wear any set or no set at all. But you still need to make sure what you are wearing is effective for the content you want to do. It's that simple.
None of this even matters, because Storm Masters and Sergeant's will still be perfectly viable for vet content, including trials, next patch. But, you can also wear another set instead of Storm Masters and be just as viable. Because the DPs loss isn't that bad. It's not bad at all.
I even did some math in the other thread, I'll even add some more here.
On LIVE right now, on a Storm Master and Sergeants Oaken sorc build.
With pets out, but Zero skills being activated. Just holding the heavy attack button. The build does 29K DPS on a 3 million dummy. The base one, with no pen or debuffs. 29K DPS.
Activating skills bumps that up to 33K DPS. So, Heavy attacks+Storm Master +Sergeants+Shock enchant = 29K DPS.
That combo is roughly 87% of the 33K DPs parse.
So, a baseline of 29K DPS on that 3M with doing nothing but holding heavy attack. That portion of the parse is the only part that is losing damage. So let's say the doomsaying 20% amount that keeps getting thrown around, that means that portion will do 23.2K DPS + now the skills portion of the parse, you get 28.2K DPS, an overall 15% nerf to a full parse.
That 15% is worst case scenario, and as others have already shown, not the actual case. But even so, using your 25K limit, that 15% nerf is 21K damage.
Honestly, if people are going to reject a player for 21K DPS on a 3M dummy, they were going to reject you for 25K. Especially when a 29K parse on a 3M is possible without activating any skills and just heavy attacking.
At the same time, plenty of groups literally don't care as long as you aren't dying or not following mechanics.
Clearly the set up was affective we wouldn’t be here if it wasn’t the case.
[snip]
I am literally showing you the numbers from the oakenbuild I use and have saved in my armorer. I cleared VMA on it this morning for my best score ever, and I run it in vet trials.
The nerf in PTS is nothing of any import on the build. It will be fine post nerf and still be stronger than the average solo DPS setup.
If we really want to make a comparison, my two bar solo build also does vet content, including vet trials and dungeons, and barely does 22K DPS on the 3M dummy. This heavy attack build does 10K more DPS, and even after the nerf will still do at least 5K more DPS. And no-one has turned down my solo build for vet content because I know how to do the role and I don't try to do trifecta prog groups. I play with like-minded players. And if your build is doing 20K+ DPS on a 3M dummy, it is effective enough for all content in the game.
And I’m literally sharing my experiences that I’ve been bullied for using this build. I’ve been kicked out a group dungeons at the last boss and mocked.
I don’t know which dummy is 3m I’m referring to the standard skeleton dummy not the parsing high end one with all the buffs I never did that dummy as I don’t have one.
You can’t compare your self to me we are different people different players with different abilities different disabilities and different levels of experience.
The skeleton is the 3M. 3M refers to the health the dummy has.
Honestly, personal experiences and anecdotes are irrelevant. You get bullied for using the build. Find better groups to run the build with. I don't get bullied for using the build, because I run with like minded people. It's is an easy fix to make. Don't play the game with people who don't want to play it with you the way you want to play it.
In the case of this nerf, the only thing that matters are objective numbers. And objectively, oakensoul heavy builds are going to be fine, at all levels of play. And objectively, I can hold 1 single button down for 2 minutes just as much as you can on a heavy attack build. And objectively on an oakensorc build, doing so gives you 29K DPS on the 3M dummy, without pressing a single skill. This does not require effort, this does not require timing. This require clicking and holding a trigger or mouse button, which is the minimum requirement for a heavy attack builds functionality.
I can’t always “find better groups” I work 7 days a week. I have a family to care for. When I come on if people in guilds aren’t on and I need transmuted to progress my character I have to deal with random people to do what I need to do. Not everyone is just online at the same time.
Everyone’s experience is relevant.
That’s just a snide thing to say.
I’m aware 3m refers to the health of the dummy im saying i use the normal skeleton one and never used the one to use referring too.
I mean if you want me to record my self playing holding down one button and not doing the damage you say ? I can gladly do it. I’m up for the challenge does anyone have a 3m dummy I can borrow ?
Becuase I bet you it will take me like 10
Minutes or more to kill it with much less dps. If I struggle on the basic skeleton.
The normal skeleton is the only 3M skeleton. Or at the very least, that is exactly what I am talking about.
On a trial dummy, just holding heavy attack down and not using skills nets around 70 DPS on the same build.
Your results are in sir you can see at the end of this thread in a 5 mill dummy you are not correct.
So, here is where you assess your build and see why you aren't hitting that obtainable number.
What blue CP slottables are you running?
I know you said your gear isn't fully upgraded, but that isn't going to do all that much. I am assuming you have the full sergeant and storm master setup. What is the other 1 piece set you are wearing, slimecraw is the best choice here. And your Mundus?
Of the two 5 piece sets, which are you running on your body and which on your jewelry. It makes a difference if the heavy set is on your body.
I’m using slimcraw as the monster helm.
Im using all the slottables recommended at lower amounts of points as I’m still low ep. All my gear is purple except for my staff which has a bad trait on it. 2 pieces have only divines on them. And I’m using the thief.
Once again the point is if they cut my build short farming for transmutes to make my build better will be much harder.
2 farming for xp
Will less easy due to not being able to take on world bosses anymore or things That gain more xp.
I’m well aware my build isn’t done… but the set up is by the book exactly what it needs to be for this build.
I just need more cp to add more points and to gold out my gear with better traits.
And yes 5 pieces of seargets and storm master plus slim craw with oakensoul.
And another point is why all this changes and push now if it will kick me back to this level say I gain 28k form these changes wil be knocked back down to 25 k anyway 🤷🏻♂️ so all this work to stay where in at and not progress.
I assure you, hitting 24K dps and losing 2-3K isn't going to impact your ability to do any of those things. As I already said, my normal build hits less than your incomplete build and it literally does all content and solos vet dungeons, trifecta Vateshran speed run craglorn vet trials, hardmodes, DLC vet dungeons and trials. All with less DPS. 20K DPS is more than enough for content in this game unless you are score pushing.
Latest if you claim 20k is enough why are people so worried about HA attack doing more damage it should matter than.
I mean, look at my post history of the last few months of literally defending heavy attack oaken builds as fine.
The only time I had a problem with oakensoul was when it was released and it was broken in PVP and players could chain drop storm atros. Since they fixed that, zero complaints and in fact defense of them.
But let's be clear, on live right now, they truly are outperforming. I just scored the best score for Vet Maelstrom I have ever scored on my sorc using this build, with a tenth of the effort it takes my solo build to do the same content. It is, objectively, pretty absurd.
But, I also think it has enough drawbacks that it makes it ok. Simultaneously, I can see that it needed a reasonable adjustment. And frankly, this seems reasonable. A small nerf to empower and a set adjustment. Set adjustments happen all the time. And, let's be real here, when a set is performing so well that it is practically a requirement on a build, it is ALWAYS bound to get nerfed. There are other sets though, that will work just as well, that didn't get nerfed. Probably just about the same DPS that you are getting now with those sets and those sets don't rely on a critting fully charged heavy attack to work.
I understand what you are saying but you have to understand I have physical limitations and zero experience with mmo style of play. So comparing you to me is like comparing a black belt to a white belt.
I’m still working on my build this set back just makes doing that harder is my initial point. That’s all.
I think being nerfed just never feels good. Especially for everyone who isn’t the very small minority of top tier players these decisions seem to be based around. It’s like being 50 in a marathon of 100 people and being knocked down and being told it’s okay, just sprint to to get back to 50th. Easy to say from the vantage point of those who aren’t nerfed or who actively desired these nerfs based on numbers being thrown out that were accomplished by a tiny minutiae of the player base.
I will concede that the YouTube video posted is kinda dumb lol (meaning I’m surprised at this much dps for just holding down a button). Has there been any nerfs since 4 months ago or is that where we are now? Again I’m not playing sorc and only got this last week.
Top tier players are not even running with this setup so it's hardly a decision based around them. It's mid and low tier players that still want to play something else that got affected the most by oakensoul HA setups.
No nerfs since then. You can still get over 80k on live server by pressing 1 button.
Ty for the info. I don’t really think just holding your finger down for that much and doing nothing else is great game design so something to consider.
@isodora. It’s awful but I hope you report anyone who lets you play until the last boss and then vote kicks you. This happened to me last week when I pigged into a 3 man premade. One of them went afk none of them said anything so I pulled and killed a boss with the tank. The healer then spent the rest of the dungeon emoting and calling me names - odd how her keyboard worked then but not to say they were afk and not to pull a boss. Then I got booted at the final boss. I reported but was to,d I’ll never know if any action was taken or not due to policy, but I like to think they got at least a warning.
Unfortunately I didn’t get their names I was too upset to think straight.
As for just Holding the button. I still have a rotation I keep my dots going my pets activated and “weave” then between each heavy attack. It’s not just doing nothing. I’m very skilled with tactical stuff my issue is my actual hands are not optimal due to injury and and carpal tunnel. If I didn’t have these issues I wouldn’t mind a one bar rotation with more dots to manage. My only real issue with eso combat is the bar swap it’s the one thing I never liked doing. But I CAN weave I just can’t do it for long without pain.
I’m sorry to hear about your hand pain and I completely understand. This is supposed to be a fun game and enjoyable relief at the end of the day. I also weave in my dots when I play this and am also not getting those numbers. Lol. Maybe I just just hold a button instead haha. You mentioned still having some work to do with traits and maybe with those and some more cp this will still be fun enough if the nerf moves ahead. If it does we will have to accept and hopefully still have fun if the change isn’t too dire.
I usually start my rotation with light attack waves to start the dots than I weave in the dots. I’ll try it just holding down the button but I do prefer more action than that. I still am managing my dots and I CAN weave. This is just what I need to do due to physical limitation. Maybe after hand surgery things will be different for me but I can’t really say now.
I’ll see after i improve my gear how much it boosts me up I do have quite a bit of things I need to do and the build is far from finished.
The key to the rotation with heavy attacks is to use the skills as the thing you weave. So you always hold heavy attack, and then you activate the skill on cool down. But never let go of the heavy attack. While heavy attacking, activating a skill will queue it up, and then when your heavy ends, the skill will go off. Then immediately after that, the next heavy will start. No light attacks necessary if you approach it like that.
Gotcha I noticed when I start the beginning of the rotation I start with the first dot but when I wave in the light attack with the first 2 dots than began doing exactly what you said after I got slightly higher results for 60k I tested it twice on each way. But I will try it again your way and see too.
Another parse tip for sorc is to pre-cast the pet's active ability before hitting the dummy. Gives you that dot already started at the beginning of the parse.
Yep I always cast pet and the critical surge than throw down unstable wall with a light attack weaved in than pray followed by heavy attack and pretty much the rotation you stated above.0 -
Tradewind✭✭✭✭Top tier players are not even running with this setup so it's hardly a decision based around them. It's mid and low tier players that still want to play something else that got affected the most by oakensoul HA setups.
No nerfs since then. You can still get over 80k on live server by pressing 1 button.
The issue at hand is that top-tier players do not value HA builds as highly as other builds, as evidenced by their ability to parse up to 135k on a dummy and maintain that damage output within trials.
Players with strong rotations can still manage to parse around 110k, which is a 25k decrease from the top-tier players. However, those who rely on HA builds may only be able to parse around 80k, a significant 55k decrease from top-tier players.
Unfortunately, this means that certain challenging activities like vTrial HM will become impossible for HA users to complete, finding progression groups will be extremely difficult without outside resources like Discord. These groups will require extensive log and parse analysis before even considering allowing HA to join, which puts HA users at a disadvantage as they may not be able to produce the high DPS numbers that these groups are looking for, not even close now. It's clear that nerfing HA will be a gameover for players who rely on these builds to hunt HM.
This is what it's all about. It's a well-known fact that this is currently happening in the game. To participate in HM, you need to join Discord. While Zenimax may not be able to do anything about it (although they could), you need to post your parse and the raid leader may choose who to bring along. However, some players have higher parses, such as 135k or 110k, compared to others who have 80k HA (100k without nerf). It's understandable why the raid leader might not choose someone with lower DPS. Why would they? Out of pity?
Initially, ZeniMax sold Oakensoul, and later on, they nearly caused a gameover situation for players who were undertaking challenging trials such as vCR +1/2/3. Now, it seems like ZeniMax will prevent all users of HA from accessing the game's most difficult content. If this nerf is implemented, it's evident that the consequences will be severe.
Edited by Tradewind on April 21, 2023 7:00AM6 -
Jammy420✭✭✭✭✭
✭This is such an overreaction, heavy attack buils will still be viable, they just wont be overpowered as all hell, like they are right now.1 -
Jammy420✭✭✭✭✭
✭I had hope, but I am truly disappointed by the recent reversal of positive changes in the game over the last few months. A couple of base-game dungeon sets, such as Storm Master, finally had some use, but now they have been nerfed. We had finally found an alternative playstyle that, while weaker, was still viable, and it encouraged more players to become active and participate in trials and hard modes using HA builds. This made the game more inclusive towards people with disabilities. But now, these changes are being reversed, and it's a really sad situation.
100% agree.
I play both LA and HA, and seeing these changes led by Advertising driven Clickbait from ESO content creators and the Gatekeeping Crew made me reconsider buying the next Chapter.
Why?
The abandonment of "play how you want" in favour of the Gatekeeping Crew.
As in many other MMOs, eventually only the Gatekeeping Crew will remain in an empty wasteland of a game.
Toning something down from being OP to reasonable for the effort required is not gate keeping imo, its reasonable.0 -
isadoraisacat✭✭✭✭✭Top tier players are not even running with this setup so it's hardly a decision based around them. It's mid and low tier players that still want to play something else that got affected the most by oakensoul HA setups.
No nerfs since then. You can still get over 80k on live server by pressing 1 button.
The issue at hand is that top-tier players do not value HA builds as highly as other builds, as evidenced by their ability to parse up to 135k on a dummy and maintain that damage output within trials.
Players with strong rotations can still manage to parse around 110k, which is a 25k decrease from the top-tier players. However, those who rely on HA builds may only be able to parse around 80k, a significant 55k decrease from top-tier players.
Unfortunately, this means that certain challenging activities like vTrial HM will become impossible for HA users to complete, finding progression groups will be extremely difficult without outside resources like Discord. These groups will require extensive log and parse analysis before even considering allowing HA to join, which puts HA users at a disadvantage as they may not be able to produce the high DPS numbers that these groups are looking for, not even close now. It's clear that nerfing HA will be a gameover for players who rely on these builds to hunt HM.
This is what it's all about. It's a well-known fact that this is currently happening in the game. To participate in HM, you need to join Discord. While Zenimax may not be able to do anything about it (although they could), you need to post your parse and the raid leader may choose who to bring along. However, some players have higher parses, such as 135k or 110k, compared to others who have 80k HA (100k without nerf). It's understandable why the raid leader might not choose someone with lower DPS. Why would they? Out of pity?
Initially, ZeniMax sold Oakensoul, and later on, they nearly caused a gameover situation for players who were undertaking challenging trials such as vCR +1/2/3. Now, it seems like ZeniMax will prevent all users of HA from accessing the game's most difficult content. If this nerf is implemented, it's evident that the consequences will be severe.
It’s a shame because players like me CAN weave and can do all the things other players do. The problem is I can’t do it for more than one 5 minutes without exteme severe pain, due to carpal
Tunnel and 2 injuries which messed up the nerves in my fingers on top of it.
So for me the only way I can be consistent is using a heavy attack build. Not everyone who is doing these builds is doing it because they are lazy, or whatever it may be. It’s a shame they will deny access to more players. I think as long as you get the job done it shouldn’t matter how you did it.
Hopefully they are listening to peoples opinions on this issue.4 -
Hapexamendios✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭This is such an overreaction, heavy attack buils will still be viable, they just wont be overpowered as all hell, like they are right now.
Overpowered? I can say I certainly am not overpowered at all. I think that the majority of us aren't.Edited by Hapexamendios on April 21, 2023 7:37AM6 -
isadoraisacat✭✭✭✭✭Hapexamendios wrote: »
Yeah I certainly don’t feel “over powered” now I feel like average player where as before a below average player in terms of damage output.5 -
Tradewind✭✭✭✭Zenimax - Buffs and Debuffs wrote: »Empower: Reduced this bonus to 70%, down from 80%.
Developer Comment:Since we've started working on Heavy Attack build viability in the past year, we've seen a massive surge in their use, which is absolutely phenomenal for seeing more players being able to participate in end-game content at a much more digestible pace. While we're happy to see these builds being ran, we're seeing these builds inch a little too close to some of the high end builds with how much more simplified they are, and in some rare cases, they're outperforming a standard build. We're cutting down the damage bonus here ever so slightly in hopes that when you have Empower with a bunch of other Heavy Attack bonus sets, the numbers are still nice and juicy, but not as close to a full-on Light Attack build.
I just read the reason for Zenimax planning the nerf, and I'm feeling pretty sad about it.
From my observations:- Players who specialize in HA builds are currently limited to parsing no more than 105k.
- Top-tier players using 2-bars builds can easily parse 125k
- Casual 2-bar players can achieve 110k.
- Casual players using HA are typically unable to exceed 70k in this context.
Unfortunately, Zenimax developers are choosing to nerf HA builds, seemingly targeting a small group of skilled players. Even if these players can't outperform the top-tier 2-bar players.
It's disappointing to see this type of targeted nerfing that favors top-tier 2-bar players and without any reason, while potentially harming more casual players and those who rely on HA builds because real-life disabilities.Edited by Tradewind on April 21, 2023 8:48AM11 -
vsrs_au✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Me neither: I just did a 10 minute DPS test on a 21m trial dummy and got about 17.5k, so I clearly don't have a clue. PC(Steam) / EU / play from Melbourne, Australia / avg ping 3901
This discussion has been closed.