Make leads tradable

Mithgil · November 2022

No, keep leads untradable

The biggest reason I vote "No" is that in order to make them tradeable they have to become an in-game item, which then impacts inventory. Problems for some, not so for others, but they'd have to be an item in order to be bought and sold. I don't see any other way in which to make them tradeable and not have them as an item. And I don't think we need Dev time sunk into coming up with a new trading system just to accommodate this feature.

If one chooses to ignore Leads because they don't bother with Antiquities then they need do nothing as it stands. They occupy "space" in the Journal and eventually "expire", no muss, no fuss, on the part of the person choosing to ignore them.

boi_anachronism_ · November 2022

No, keep leads untradable

Sarannah wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Yes. But... on the other hand I don't think that mythic leads should be inaccessible either. And some of them kinda are dropping in places that many players won't ever do - like group arenas & trials.

I guess it would be all fine if we had multiple sources for every mythic. This would kinda stop the "boss camping" or "node camping" phenomenon we have when there is a new mythic introduced. Players imho should help each other, but the way many leads are designed makes it the total opposite & creates very toxic situations.

Agreed, all leads should be in easily accessible places! And in multiple spots gameplay-wise, so players can receive leads from any content they enjoy doing.

Ok I'd buy this if it's like for furnishings or qol stuff like ring of the wild hunt, oakensoul, ECT but why on earth do folks need easy access to harpooners kilt for example? Thats actually detrimental to less experienced players. They look at some of these items and go "thats powerful!" But don't have the skill to use it and do less damage then before. Not only that, if you don't want to do dungeons or trials then what is the point of having some of these? They are useless in overland. As far as furnishings leads in general just make those sellable and be done with it. Mythic items are mythic for a reason and some leg work should have to be done to get it. That said I am not in favor of those parts that drop from safe boxes for example. That's just a mess of toxicity waiting to happen.

Dr_Con · November 2022

I don't care either way.

I do find it sad when I get called to help someone get a lead but instead I get the lead, so maybe explore that. But I think the lead system is broken anyways and you can't have more than a certain amount of leads before you get bugged into no more dropping.

spartaxoxo · November 2022

Yes, make leads tradable

I'd greatly prefer that leads weren't tradeable but they fixed the drop rates for a few and gave us a reliable way to farm the treasure map we want.

However, barring that, it wouldn't be that bad to be able to just buy the treasure map lead from someone else so you get the codex entry and the motif.

Gruumsh1 · November 2022

No, keep leads untradable

I get the feeling this issue goes away if they just make the leads a tad more accessible instead of putting them in rng containers that make it seemingly, nigh impossible to get.

Sadly, if ZOS won't do the simple things they won't do the more difficult.

blktauna · November 2022

Yes, make leads tradable

I have desired leads for places my non eso+ account cant go. Not getting eso+ on that acct so they are going spare. Seems a waste.

Hapexamendios · November 2022

Tradable within a group, no problem.

Sellable? No way. I think it'd make getting some leads even worse as people would farm them to sell.

rpa · November 2022

I think group dungeon drops could be tradeable but in that case dungeons should drop a container with the lead and not the lead itself because complications like someone in group may already have got the lead but not excavated it or excavated it but not finished other parts of the mythic. In practice it might be be complicated to implement and prone to moar RNG bugs/biases/features which make life in ESO so interesting for players already.

TempPlayer · November 2022

Yes, make leads tradable

Since I don't own High Isle, the Sunspire boss lead is pretty much a guarantee drop for me (been there like 3 times since High Isle and get the drop twice), so I'm fine with trading that away.

mocap · November 2022

Yes, make leads tradable

greed and jealousy are found in the thread

Also keep in mind that tradable does not have to mean "sold by players". It can also be an NPC store. And not necessarily for gold.

ApoAlaia · November 2022

Yes, make leads tradable

Yes, with a caveat.

If they follow the same rules as dungeon/trial gear. This is you can trade them with members of the party/group within two hours of it dropping.

Also softcap or hardcap RNG already...

Sarannah · November 2022

No, keep leads untradable

Ingenon wrote: »

For several of the furnishing leads, I am letting the leads expire because every house that is big enough to hold them has one or more of them already. Why not let me trade them to someone else who still wants them?

Those leads work wonders if you are leveling excavation/scrying on a new character.

In response to some of the other posts: Placing leads in difficult or in inaccessible content would only make it so players will dislike that content even more, instead of it being an incentive to be there. Even if it is only inaccessible by player's choice. Also, leads must be in places everyone can access. Otherwise what is the point of new mythics, or buying DLC that releases new mythics.
For me this has nothing to do with difficulty or time(even though those play a major factor as well), I just do not like doing certain content and am not good in other content. Some higher content is just more trouble than it's worth, accessibility-wise. That does not mean the leads should be inaccessible!

Stating players in lower difficulty content should not have access to certain leads(mythics) is not what I think. Players should have access to any mythic they want, no matter at what difficulty level they play at. And no matter how useful that mythic can be to them. Not everyone is only playing the game to do higher content or to push their DPS-numbers, some just like to complete/try/collect everything but can't/won't do certain content. The game should facilitate these players as well, as they also bought the DLC that contains the mythic. Especially since only a tiny portion of the playerbase consists of endgame players.

So in my opinion all leads should be in easily accessible places and multiple types of content, so players can do the content they enjoy to get the leads.

PS: Idea: We also need an (archeology?) NPC which tells us where a mythic lead we haven't discovered yet, is at. So players like me, without add-ons(or google), can know where to find/farm new undiscovered mythic leads. Something like: "When I was younger I once made a ring from materials through a lead I found in one of Murkmire's safeboxes." or "When I was still an explorer me and my group once found a lead from the final boss of darkshade caverns 2." This way a new lead to find, is discoverable through the game itself, instead of only through third-party sources or by sheer luck.

Billium813 · November 2022

No, keep leads untradable

Sarannah wrote: »

In response to some of the other posts: Placing leads in difficult or in inaccessible content would only make it so players will dislike that content even more, instead of it being an incentive to be there. Even if it is only inaccessible by player's choice. Also, leads must be in places everyone can access. Otherwise what is the point of new mythics, or buying DLC that releases new mythics.
For me this has nothing to do with difficulty or time(even though those play a major factor as well), I just do not like doing certain content and am not good in other content. Some higher content is just more trouble than it's worth, accessibility-wise. That does not mean the leads should be inaccessible!

Can you define "places everyone can access" please? Because it sounds like what you mean is "in places where I personally have fun playing the game". You "not liking certain content" or "not being good in other content" should not prohibit leads from being placed there. That is pure opinion.

CrashTest · November 2022

Yes, make leads tradable

Good ideas posted so far such as trading within groups and a lead vendor.

rexagamemnon · November 2022

Yes, make leads tradable

Not opposed. In the real world archeologists, historians, investigators, paleontoligists, virtually all academics provide each other leads on work when it benefits them

kargen27 · November 2022

No, keep leads untradable

The leads are a way to get players to return to older content. Also creates incentive to participate in a variety of content. Both those are vital to long term health of the game.
Tradeable within a group for group content I could see being okay. Group content being dungeons and trials. Grouping up at a world boss or to run around picking flowers shouldn't allow sharing.

SiAScORCH · November 2022

No, keep leads untradable

There's no reason to make them tradable, that's just being lazy honestly.

Amottica · November 2022

No, keep leads untradable

I think it is a bad idea to make everything tradable.

peacenote · November 2022

No, keep leads untradable

Mithgil wrote: »

The biggest reason I vote "No" is that in order to make them tradeable they have to become an in-game item, which then impacts inventory. Problems for some, not so for others, but they'd have to be an item in order to be bought and sold. I don't see any other way in which to make them tradeable and not have them as an item. And I don't think we need Dev time sunk into coming up with a new trading system just to accommodate this feature.

If one chooses to ignore Leads because they don't bother with Antiquities then they need do nothing as it stands. They occupy "space" in the Journal and eventually "expire", no muss, no fuss, on the part of the person choosing to ignore them.

This is a very good point. I would HATE for these to become inventory items.

I do think they should not expire and I would like to see leads have two potential ways to obtain them, at least for mythic pieces, so if you're having bad luck with one drop there's another thing to try.

I also think another better idea would be a way to earn, say, gemstones when you excavate where eventually you could use them to find a lead that won't drop. Earn 50 gems and you can apply them to the lead of your choice. This seems much better than any type of trade system littered up with common leads and asking for large amounts of gold for rare ones.

disintegr8 · November 2022

I'd like to see them tradable within a group, like dungeon and trial gear. That way if you are helping someone farm a lead that you've already had (and used), if you get it and they don't, you can give it to them.

Natakiro · November 2022

No, keep leads untradable

I wish some of the leads were less grindy, but I would not like to see them tradable. It's nice to have something that is solely earned by yourself; like when I see those Dwarven Ebon Wolf mounts, I know that person went through all of the trouble to earn that themselves, same as the vet Trial mounts, it isn't something they just threw money at (unless they somehow got a carry for all those vet achievements for the latter LOL.) I don't have said Dwarven mount yet, but getting all of the pieces for it has been something I slowly tackle, and I can feel accomplished when I can finally use it. I just finished getting the pieces for the new music box; was nice to finally get that part from the overland chests and place it in my home.

Leads are one of the things I like to farm for; it's a nice sense of progress to finally finish an antiquity. However, I would like to see them sellable at generic merchants for gold, better than trashing or throwing in a storage home, but, as pointed out already, they are not normal inventory items, so it wouldn't be worth the time and energy to recategorize them and such.

me_ming · November 2022

No, keep leads untradable

rexagamemnon wrote: »

Not opposed. In the real world archeologists, historians, investigators, paleontoligists, virtually all academics provide each other leads on work when it benefits them

1.) Tamriel is not the real world. and 2.) aren't we doing this in game already... that's why there's a codex. We're sharing it to other scholars, just NPCs. And well... there are websites for you to look for those leads.

I think most who say they want leads to be tradable is because they just want everything to be "accessible". If that's the case, I want all content in this game to be accessible. Why should I need to do vet trials and dungeons to get skins, mounts, etc? Why should I have to complete quests to get a dye or title? Those should be readily accessible. I don't want to grind all day long because I have work to do and I have a family to feed. I don't have time for this trivial things you have to do in game. I should be able to get them whenever and however I want. Just put them on the Crown Store already.

I have a job I have to attend to 5 days a week too-- sometimes even more, I don't have a family, but I have people who depend on me. I know what I got into, an MMORPG. The game has been dumb down already because people keep crying they have their personal lives to attend too, as if people who does end game or people who make an effort to get what they want in this game doesn't. Not everything in should be accessible, otherwise, please PLEASE go back to playing Skyrim.

Lady_Galadhiel · November 2022

Yes, make leads tradable

Billium813 wrote: »

Absolutely not. Having to chase down leads yourself is actually good for the game. If they become tradable, then the whole process becomes trivialized as players just BUY leads from players rather than having to put in the effort themselves. Eat your vegetables, you may not like them, but they are good for you.

That's like saying grind and frustrating over lead farming is good for people or the game. 😂

Definitely they should be tradable, yes please ZOS!!!

lemonizzle · November 2022

Yes, make leads tradable

Once you unlocked them yourself, duplicates should be sellable. Almost every unintended thing is "sellable" anyway, crown items, solo arena run, trial gear, achievements (and things against the rules).

NeKryXe · November 2022

No, keep leads untradable

I like the idea because I like trading in game. But I voted "no", because I know I would be playing less if I could buy some hard to get leads.

Jaimeh · November 2022

No, keep leads untradable

Billium813 wrote: »

Ingenon wrote: »

For several of the furnishing leads, I am letting the leads expire because every house that is big enough to hold them has one or more of them already. Why not let me trade them to someone else who still wants them?

So the game should mirror real life more? If you have enough money, you never have to leave your home or do any content; just purchase it from other players for cold hard cash? Someone can spend all day flipping items on the market for millions of gold, then completely skip collecting leads by just purchasing them? This is a game, the game should incentivize players to play it, not give them more avenues to skip to the end by paying money and selling crowns.

I have to agree with this, it would encourage people to then just convert RL money to in-game gold (via crown gifting) to get the leads, and while that's fine for cosmetic things, when it comes to leads for mythic items in particular, it can veer to problematic territory.

Billium813 · November 2022

No, keep leads untradable

Lady_Galadhiel wrote: »

Billium813 wrote: »

Absolutely not. Having to chase down leads yourself is actually good for the game. If they become tradable, then the whole process becomes trivialized as players just BUY leads from players rather than having to put in the effort themselves. Eat your vegetables, you may not like them, but they are good for you.

That's like saying grind and frustrating over lead farming is good for people or the game. 😂

Definitely they should be tradable, yes please ZOS!!!

I am not saying they couldn't improve the drop rate, or at least give players more control over the drops (like Vet HM being a guaranteed drop or certain achievements influencing drop rates; which they already do for Undaunted Monster Mask Style Pages)
What you call "grinding and frustrating over lead farming", I call playing the game. Everyone's tolerance for frustration is different and, like I said above, I'm not against them giving better avenues to complete quickly (if the skill is there) and improving drop rates based on conditional contributions (dps, damage taken, healing). But, if you want a game you can complete in a weekend, don't play an MMO. Certain amounts of RNG and player action are necessary to make this a game. Otherwise, there would only be about 20 hours of total gameplay, then players would be at the endgame.
I don't advocate for any process where players can:
- Buy Crowns for $$$ > Sell Crowns for Gold > Purchase Mythic Leads (This is literally pay-to-win)
- Spend all day flipping items in guild traders > Purchase Leads (This is not a trading sim. Unrelated content should not be completable via gold)

kargen27 · November 2022

No, keep leads untradable

Lady_Galadhiel wrote: »

Billium813 wrote: »

Absolutely not. Having to chase down leads yourself is actually good for the game. If they become tradable, then the whole process becomes trivialized as players just BUY leads from players rather than having to put in the effort themselves. Eat your vegetables, you may not like them, but they are good for you.

That's like saying grind and frustrating over lead farming is good for people or the game. 😂

Definitely they should be tradable, yes please ZOS!!!

Grinding to the point of frustration is something the player decides to do. Players repeating content and participating in a variety of content is good for the game. It isn't a game issue but a player issue that makes things a frustrating grind. So many players stress over not getting the new drops almost immediately and lose sight of just having fun.

boi_anachronism_ · November 2022

No, keep leads untradable

Sarannah wrote: »

Ingenon wrote: »

For several of the furnishing leads, I am letting the leads expire because every house that is big enough to hold them has one or more of them already. Why not let me trade them to someone else who still wants them?

Those leads work wonders if you are leveling excavation/scrying on a new character.

In response to some of the other posts: Placing leads in difficult or in inaccessible content would only make it so players will dislike that content even more, instead of it being an incentive to be there. Even if it is only inaccessible by player's choice. Also, leads must be in places everyone can access. Otherwise what is the point of new mythics, or buying DLC that releases new mythics.
For me this has nothing to do with difficulty or time(even though those play a major factor as well), I just do not like doing certain content and am not good in other content. Some higher content is just more trouble than it's worth, accessibility-wise. That does not mean the leads should be inaccessible!

Stating players in lower difficulty content should not have access to certain leads(mythics) is not what I think. Players should have access to any mythic they want, no matter at what difficulty level they play at. And no matter how useful that mythic can be to them. Not everyone is only playing the game to do higher content or to push their DPS-numbers, some just like to complete/try/collect everything but can't/won't do certain content. The game should facilitate these players as well, as they also bought the DLC that contains the mythic. Especially since only a tiny portion of the playerbase consists of endgame players.

So in my opinion all leads should be in easily accessible places and multiple types of content, so players can do the content they enjoy to get the leads.

PS: Idea: We also need an (archeology?) NPC which tells us where a mythic lead we haven't discovered yet, is at. So players like me, without add-ons(or google), can know where to find/farm new undiscovered mythic leads. Something like: "When I was younger I once made a ring from materials through a lead I found in one of Murkmire's safeboxes." or "When I was still an explorer me and my group once found a lead from the final boss of darkshade caverns 2." This way a new lead to find, is discoverable through the game itself, instead of only through third-party sources or by sheer luck.

Not everyone is good at ALL content. It is designed to encourage players to branch out. I'm not good at pvp particularly but there are leads that drop In IC that have lead me to spend some time there and actually enjoyed it on occasion. World bosses, delves, harvesting, pvp zones, and even random leads on tables or in overworld, how is that not "multiple types of content"? I'm just baffled. With this type of thinking might as well suggest you go to the corner merchant and buy all the leads..

Billium813 · November 2022

No, keep leads untradable

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

Ingenon wrote: »

For several of the furnishing leads, I am letting the leads expire because every house that is big enough to hold them has one or more of them already. Why not let me trade them to someone else who still wants them?

Those leads work wonders if you are leveling excavation/scrying on a new character.

In response to some of the other posts: Placing leads in difficult or in inaccessible content would only make it so players will dislike that content even more, instead of it being an incentive to be there. Even if it is only inaccessible by player's choice. Also, leads must be in places everyone can access. Otherwise what is the point of new mythics, or buying DLC that releases new mythics.
For me this has nothing to do with difficulty or time(even though those play a major factor as well), I just do not like doing certain content and am not good in other content. Some higher content is just more trouble than it's worth, accessibility-wise. That does not mean the leads should be inaccessible!

Stating players in lower difficulty content should not have access to certain leads(mythics) is not what I think. Players should have access to any mythic they want, no matter at what difficulty level they play at. And no matter how useful that mythic can be to them. Not everyone is only playing the game to do higher content or to push their DPS-numbers, some just like to complete/try/collect everything but can't/won't do certain content. The game should facilitate these players as well, as they also bought the DLC that contains the mythic. Especially since only a tiny portion of the playerbase consists of endgame players.

So in my opinion all leads should be in easily accessible places and multiple types of content, so players can do the content they enjoy to get the leads.

PS: Idea: We also need an (archeology?) NPC which tells us where a mythic lead we haven't discovered yet, is at. So players like me, without add-ons(or google), can know where to find/farm new undiscovered mythic leads. Something like: "When I was younger I once made a ring from materials through a lead I found in one of Murkmire's safeboxes." or "When I was still an explorer me and my group once found a lead from the final boss of darkshade caverns 2." This way a new lead to find, is discoverable through the game itself, instead of only through third-party sources or by sheer luck.

Not everyone is good at ALL content. It is designed to encourage players to branch out. I'm not good at pvp particularly but there are leads that drop In IC that have lead me to spend some time there and actually enjoyed it on occasion. World bosses, delves, harvesting, pvp zones, and even random leads on tables or in overworld, how is that not "multiple types of content"? I'm just baffled. With this type of thinking might as well suggest you go to the corner merchant and buy all the leads..

I think that by "easily accessible places and multiple types of content", they mean something like this:

In order to obtain the Syrabane’s Ward Mythic, you need the lead for Rune-scribed Braces. Currently, this lead only drops from the last boss of Shipwright’s Regret dungeon. Alternatively, for example, this lead could also drop from some fishing activity, from taking Keeps in Cyrodiil, and from a specific zone daily coffer. Players could have "multiple types of content" to choose from to obtain the lead, rather than currently being "forced" into something that they may not like.

I don't know if I completely disagree with this idea, but I don't think I like it either. The game would fill up REALLY fast with all of these alternative lead drop locations. Yes, it makes it more likely that one of the drop locations will appeal to a specific player, which I like. However, it also becomes very complex and after 2 years we would have multiple things in the game dropping multiple types of leads... not sure if that's good or bad. Also, players will just pick the easiest one and do that... which undermines the strength of a system that subtly gets players to participate in other content.

At the end of the day, there are MANY good ideas on how to improve drop rates for leads and mix up the variety. All of these are preferable to just making them tradable.