katorga wrote: »

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

So, a player can debuff you with a no-cost ranged skill, or use puncture up close to debuff you of all you have going pretty quickly. Yikes.

Yep, I already have my debuff tank build ready to roll. Everyone near me will lost all their armor buffs, get all the armor debuffs, and most of the other debuffs in the game.

jaws343 wrote: »

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Set looks fine to me. You can remove debuffs so you should be able to remove buffs too. You can also re-apply buffs or play without them.

I completely disagree with “is there no one else’s” video. He claims that this is as good as a penetration set but it’s a totally bogus claim. You can debuff one major debuff every 2 seconds and there is no guarantee major resolve will be what you debuff. On top of which resolving vigor now rebuffs major resolve every time you use it to heal. It’s a fake narrative the same way cries about proc sets were a fake narrative years ago. Now days many players use procs and enjoy the interesting gameplay effects.

Sets like this that don’t do damage have to be good or Nobody will use them. Anytime a good set is put on PTS an army of cries ensue to try to get rid of it

But, everyone who raised the red flag about procs a few years ago were absolutely right. Procs were insane, and added a ton of damage to players who could stack health and defense.

And, as a result, procs were completely overhauled, with scaling. And now, you only hear about a few outlier sets that a problems and not procs as a whole.

So, procs are in a good spot now, absolutely because people raised a fit and Zos fixed things.

As they should with this set as well.

Really? Procs are in a good place? Just the last patch the forums were howling about how "OP" savage werewolf was. A set that procs a miniscule amount of damage. ZOS only targets the sets that make the most forum noise. You can build all sorts of overwhelming damage builds with all sorts of under-the-radar, low damage sets.

Personally, I like the idea of nocturnal's ploy. It's an entirely new mode of game play. It opens up new options and new things you have to worry about on your build. Debuff tank builds will be needed to give all the classes that got wrecked this patch something to do

I mean, I literally said that there were a few outliers.

katorga wrote: »

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

So, a player can debuff you with a no-cost ranged skill, or use puncture up close to debuff you of all you have going pretty quickly. Yikes.

Yep, I already have my debuff tank build ready to roll. Everyone near me will lost all their armor buffs, get all the armor debuffs, and most of the other debuffs in the game.

jaws343 wrote: »

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Set looks fine to me. You can remove debuffs so you should be able to remove buffs too. You can also re-apply buffs or play without them.

I completely disagree with “is there no one else’s” video. He claims that this is as good as a penetration set but it’s a totally bogus claim. You can debuff one major debuff every 2 seconds and there is no guarantee major resolve will be what you debuff. On top of which resolving vigor now rebuffs major resolve every time you use it to heal. It’s a fake narrative the same way cries about proc sets were a fake narrative years ago. Now days many players use procs and enjoy the interesting gameplay effects.

Sets like this that don’t do damage have to be good or Nobody will use them. Anytime a good set is put on PTS an army of cries ensue to try to get rid of it

But, everyone who raised the red flag about procs a few years ago were absolutely right. Procs were insane, and added a ton of damage to players who could stack health and defense.

And, as a result, procs were completely overhauled, with scaling. And now, you only hear about a few outlier sets that a problems and not procs as a whole.

So, procs are in a good spot now, absolutely because people raised a fit and Zos fixed things.

As they should with this set as well.

Really? Procs are in a good place? Just the last patch the forums were howling about how "OP" savage werewolf was. A set that procs a miniscule amount of damage. ZOS only targets the sets that make the most forum noise. You can build all sorts of overwhelming damage builds with all sorts of under-the-radar, low damage sets.

Personally, I like the idea of nocturnal's ploy. It's an entirely new mode of game play. It opens up new options and new things you have to worry about on your build. Debuff tank builds will be needed to give all the classes that got wrecked this patch something to do

All you needed to play a debuff tank was Kynmarcher's Cruelty. My nightblade tank wears it. I can already see two new sets coming from ZOS that are going to continue the track record of being toxic in PVP when it could have been avoided only if the devs listened.

React wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

So, a player can debuff you with a no-cost ranged skill, or use puncture up close to debuff you of all you have going pretty quickly. Yikes.

Yep, I already have my debuff tank build ready to roll. Everyone near me will lost all their armor buffs, get all the armor debuffs, and most of the other debuffs in the game.

jaws343 wrote: »

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Set looks fine to me. You can remove debuffs so you should be able to remove buffs too. You can also re-apply buffs or play without them.

I completely disagree with “is there no one else’s” video. He claims that this is as good as a penetration set but it’s a totally bogus claim. You can debuff one major debuff every 2 seconds and there is no guarantee major resolve will be what you debuff. On top of which resolving vigor now rebuffs major resolve every time you use it to heal. It’s a fake narrative the same way cries about proc sets were a fake narrative years ago. Now days many players use procs and enjoy the interesting gameplay effects.

Sets like this that don’t do damage have to be good or Nobody will use them. Anytime a good set is put on PTS an army of cries ensue to try to get rid of it

But, everyone who raised the red flag about procs a few years ago were absolutely right. Procs were insane, and added a ton of damage to players who could stack health and defense.

And, as a result, procs were completely overhauled, with scaling. And now, you only hear about a few outlier sets that a problems and not procs as a whole.

So, procs are in a good spot now, absolutely because people raised a fit and Zos fixed things.

As they should with this set as well.

Really? Procs are in a good place? Just the last patch the forums were howling about how "OP" savage werewolf was. A set that procs a miniscule amount of damage. ZOS only targets the sets that make the most forum noise. You can build all sorts of overwhelming damage builds with all sorts of under-the-radar, low damage sets.

Personally, I like the idea of nocturnal's ploy. It's an entirely new mode of game play. It opens up new options and new things you have to worry about on your build. Debuff tank builds will be needed to give all the classes that got wrecked this patch something to do

The thing is, this isn't a debuff set. It is a dispel set. What this set is doing is magnitudes more powerful than any debuff set in the entire game. Not only are you flat out removing buffs from your opponent, some of which are not re-obtainable as they are sourced from potions, but you are forcing them to spend resources trying to maintain those buffs aswell.

The 5 piece could effectively read: Once every two seconds, randomly remove 40% of your weapons WD/SD, 9k of your target's resistances, 15% of your target's % mitigation modifiers, 20% of your target's critical chance, 30% of your target's AOE mitigation (evasion), 45% of your target's movespeed (expeditions), 40% Of your targets magicka or stamina regen, etc.

It is so far beyond every debuff in the game that it is truly incomprehensible how it was able to make it onto the PTS. Again, even if this set had a 20 second cooldown it would still be in complete contrast to the existing buff/debuff system in the game, and it would fundamentally break how that system is supposed to function. This set needs to be scrapped.

A very simple example of this would be my current live Mag Sorc build. The build is admittedly not optimal as it is still a max mag shield sorc, but as that build it is viable.

The non-permanent buffs that build provides are:

Minor Prophecy (From casting a dark magic skill)
Major Expedition (From Boundless, only up 4 seconds)
Major Resolve (From Boundless)
Major Fortitude/Intellect/Endurace (Tri-stat potion)
Major Mending (Only after a restro heavy attack, not much of a factor or an occurrence)

So, of those, Minor Prophecy will be removed every 2 seconds. Meaning, unless I am spamming a dark magic skill, it is gone.

And then every 2 seconds I am losing Expedition, Resolve, Fortitude, Intellect or Endurance.

Well, I can only get the recovery buffs every 40 seconds or so, so within a minimum of 10 seconds, I will not have the recovery buffs. Unless, within that 10 seconds, if Expedition or Resolve are removed, I keep spamming Boundless Storm, a skill that costs 2500 mag. So, I either spend 2500 mag every 2 seconds to ensure that I keep the likelihood of not losing my Recovery buffs, or I lose all of my buffs within 10 seconds.

But, I also can't really afford to lose the Resolve Buff. As the armor provided is at least 1/4 of my total armor on the build. So, losing that is losing a ton of damage mitigation, and making my shields even more of a detriment. So, even after 10 seconds have passed, and I have likely lost my recovery buffs. I then have 30 seconds of my Resolve or Expedition being removed every two seconds.

Which means, that more likely than not, after 16 or so seconds, I have had all of my buffs removed, and, if I wanted to keep up resolve during that time, I have spent at least 10-15K mag on doing so, and still, it is likely going to be removed every 2 seconds now.

Once again I'm asking ZOS how we on console are meant to know what buffs have been removed, when all we have is a bunch of little squares at the bottom of the screen. I have no doubt some enterprising sort on PC will make an addon that'll say when a buff has been removed but on console I guess we're all just meant to micromanage our squares.

Tbh. It is actually more broken than original Oakensoul on PTS could ever hope to be... and Oaken got adjusted... twice. On the last update PTS and on this update PTS.

It is actually not even sad at this point but rather kinda baffling & even funny that a set that provides a buff to your stats can't be OP, but sets that do ultimate - like damage is not getting a proper adjustment (DC set) or even gets a substantial buff (PB & Hrothgar sets). How is that fair ? On top of that this new proc sets seems to be even more powerful than Negate... it is crazy. Oaken was OP, but at least you still needed to play actively & do stuff yourself lol.

I guess the meta next patch is to run Nocturnal's Ploy & PB set (NPPB build ? ). People will dare to purge de-buffs - they go boom. And if they die because they could not cast speed-buff - they go boom too... And the worst part is that the only way to nerf this is to use this. Because devs do not seem to be listening to player feedback. They mostly look at statistics & metrics what is used and how often.

jaws343 wrote: »

React wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

So, a player can debuff you with a no-cost ranged skill, or use puncture up close to debuff you of all you have going pretty quickly. Yikes.

Yep, I already have my debuff tank build ready to roll. Everyone near me will lost all their armor buffs, get all the armor debuffs, and most of the other debuffs in the game.

jaws343 wrote: »

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Set looks fine to me. You can remove debuffs so you should be able to remove buffs too. You can also re-apply buffs or play without them.

I completely disagree with “is there no one else’s” video. He claims that this is as good as a penetration set but it’s a totally bogus claim. You can debuff one major debuff every 2 seconds and there is no guarantee major resolve will be what you debuff. On top of which resolving vigor now rebuffs major resolve every time you use it to heal. It’s a fake narrative the same way cries about proc sets were a fake narrative years ago. Now days many players use procs and enjoy the interesting gameplay effects.

Sets like this that don’t do damage have to be good or Nobody will use them. Anytime a good set is put on PTS an army of cries ensue to try to get rid of it

But, everyone who raised the red flag about procs a few years ago were absolutely right. Procs were insane, and added a ton of damage to players who could stack health and defense.

And, as a result, procs were completely overhauled, with scaling. And now, you only hear about a few outlier sets that a problems and not procs as a whole.

So, procs are in a good spot now, absolutely because people raised a fit and Zos fixed things.

As they should with this set as well.

Really? Procs are in a good place? Just the last patch the forums were howling about how "OP" savage werewolf was. A set that procs a miniscule amount of damage. ZOS only targets the sets that make the most forum noise. You can build all sorts of overwhelming damage builds with all sorts of under-the-radar, low damage sets.

Personally, I like the idea of nocturnal's ploy. It's an entirely new mode of game play. It opens up new options and new things you have to worry about on your build. Debuff tank builds will be needed to give all the classes that got wrecked this patch something to do

The thing is, this isn't a debuff set. It is a dispel set. What this set is doing is magnitudes more powerful than any debuff set in the entire game. Not only are you flat out removing buffs from your opponent, some of which are not re-obtainable as they are sourced from potions, but you are forcing them to spend resources trying to maintain those buffs aswell.

The 5 piece could effectively read: Once every two seconds, randomly remove 40% of your weapons WD/SD, 9k of your target's resistances, 15% of your target's % mitigation modifiers, 20% of your target's critical chance, 30% of your target's AOE mitigation (evasion), 45% of your target's movespeed (expeditions), 40% Of your targets magicka or stamina regen, etc.

It is so far beyond every debuff in the game that it is truly incomprehensible how it was able to make it onto the PTS. Again, even if this set had a 20 second cooldown it would still be in complete contrast to the existing buff/debuff system in the game, and it would fundamentally break how that system is supposed to function. This set needs to be scrapped.

A very simple example of this would be my current live Mag Sorc build. The build is admittedly not optimal as it is still a max mag shield sorc, but as that build it is viable.

The non-permanent buffs that build provides are:

Minor Prophecy (From casting a dark magic skill)
Major Expedition (From Boundless, only up 4 seconds)
Major Resolve (From Boundless)
Major Fortitude/Intellect/Endurace (Tri-stat potion)
Major Mending (Only after a restro heavy attack, not much of a factor or an occurrence)

So, of those, Minor Prophecy will be removed every 2 seconds. Meaning, unless I am spamming a dark magic skill, it is gone.

And then every 2 seconds I am losing Expedition, Resolve, Fortitude, Intellect or Endurance.

Well, I can only get the recovery buffs every 40 seconds or so, so within a minimum of 10 seconds, I will not have the recovery buffs. Unless, within that 10 seconds, if Expedition or Resolve are removed, I keep spamming Boundless Storm, a skill that costs 2500 mag. So, I either spend 2500 mag every 2 seconds to ensure that I keep the likelihood of not losing my Recovery buffs, or I lose all of my buffs within 10 seconds.

But, I also can't really afford to lose the Resolve Buff. As the armor provided is at least 1/4 of my total armor on the build. So, losing that is losing a ton of damage mitigation, and making my shields even more of a detriment. So, even after 10 seconds have passed, and I have likely lost my recovery buffs. I then have 30 seconds of my Resolve or Expedition being removed every two seconds.

Which means, that more likely than not, after 16 or so seconds, I have had all of my buffs removed, and, if I wanted to keep up resolve during that time, I have spent at least 10-15K mag on doing so, and still, it is likely going to be removed every 2 seconds now.

the sets cooldown is not on targets. you can have 5 people running the set and have all of them hit you at once with a skill that provides a major and minor debuff. and 5 of each are gone instantly. big groups with 4+ of these sets on them can single people out and instantly strip them of every buff they have. people are thinking too small with this set. if any more than 2 people are using this set you cant reapply buffs fast enough to keep even 1 buff up. you will just permanently be without any time based buffs. and may aswell never run a single buff.

if they make the cooldown per target, then cast one Aoe ability that takes both like wardens Corrupting pollen. and everyone in that 15m radius gets a set of buffs removed. the set as a concept should have either existed from day 1 or never exist at all. simple as that

Sandman929 wrote: »

"Nocturnal’s Ploy: Updated this set’s tooltip to better describe its requirements, such as its inability to trigger off delayed or ticking events."

Well...I guess we know what every one in PvP will be doing next update.

Sandman929 wrote: »

Well...I guess we know what every one in PvP will be doing next update.

Oakensoul!

jaws343 wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

"Nocturnal’s Ploy: Updated this set’s tooltip to better describe its requirements, such as its inability to trigger off delayed or ticking events."

Well...I guess we know what every one in PvP will be doing next update.

Oakensoul + Nocturnal Ploy + Dark Convergence = Profit.

Or just run Kynmarcher's and add an AoE Major debuff every 8 seconds on top of your skill based debuffs.

RIP Outnumbered PvP, 2014-2022. It was a good time while it lasted. There's no point in even trying next patch thanks to this set.

I feel bad for all of the streamers that will be streamsniped and targeted by people spamming this set to make sure they can't showcase PvP content, if they haven't uninstalled already due to gankers doing the same thing to them. Nocturnals is an extremely problematic set that destroys build diversity and playstyle identity for a whole swathe of players, and ZOS is wholehandedly ignoring feedback concerning it.

They're forcing everyone to zerg, or wear Oakensoul. Lol

Jaraal wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

"Nocturnal’s Ploy: Updated this set’s tooltip to better describe its requirements, such as its inability to trigger off delayed or ticking events."

Well...I guess we know what every one in PvP will be doing next update.

Oakensoul + Nocturnal Ploy + Dark Convergence = Profit.

Or just run Kynmarcher's and add an AoE Major debuff every 8 seconds on top of your skill based debuffs.

Yeah, that'll be solid too.

I like the idea of using DC because you can use the pull effect from the proc to prevent them being able to re-buff.
Basically debuff>they lose their buffs>drop ground AOE>pulls them before they can recast buffs>DC proc has a chance of hitting them with essentially 11K pen> execute.

They really are going to go through with this tripe; arent they?

Just like with Dark Convergence, they are incapable of realizing the disruptive nature of such sets and the reason why mechanics like these have no place in the game's combat system.

As Mazio have said, they are either ignorant and trolling, or are completely incompetent with combat mechanics - non of which is helpful by any means.