NordSwordnBoard wrote: »So, a player can debuff you with a no-cost ranged skill, or use puncture up close to debuff you of all you have going pretty quickly. Yikes.
Yep, I already have my debuff tank build ready to roll. Everyone near me will lost all their armor buffs, get all the armor debuffs, and most of the other debuffs in the game.sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »Set looks fine to me. You can remove debuffs so you should be able to remove buffs too. You can also re-apply buffs or play without them.
I completely disagree with “is there no one else’s” video. He claims that this is as good as a penetration set but it’s a totally bogus claim. You can debuff one major debuff every 2 seconds and there is no guarantee major resolve will be what you debuff. On top of which resolving vigor now rebuffs major resolve every time you use it to heal. It’s a fake narrative the same way cries about proc sets were a fake narrative years ago. Now days many players use procs and enjoy the interesting gameplay effects.
Sets like this that don’t do damage have to be good or Nobody will use them. Anytime a good set is put on PTS an army of cries ensue to try to get rid of it
But, everyone who raised the red flag about procs a few years ago were absolutely right. Procs were insane, and added a ton of damage to players who could stack health and defense.
And, as a result, procs were completely overhauled, with scaling. And now, you only hear about a few outlier sets that a problems and not procs as a whole.
So, procs are in a good spot now, absolutely because people raised a fit and Zos fixed things.
As they should with this set as well.
Really? Procs are in a good place? Just the last patch the forums were howling about how "OP" savage werewolf was. A set that procs a miniscule amount of damage. ZOS only targets the sets that make the most forum noise. You can build all sorts of overwhelming damage builds with all sorts of under-the-radar, low damage sets.
Personally, I like the idea of nocturnal's ploy. It's an entirely new mode of game play. It opens up new options and new things you have to worry about on your build. Debuff tank builds will be needed to give all the classes that got wrecked this patch something to do
sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »Set looks fine to me. You can remove debuffs so you should be able to remove buffs too. You can also re-apply buffs or play without them.
I completely disagree with “is there no one else’s” video. He claims that this is as good as a penetration set but it’s a totally bogus claim. You can debuff one major debuff every 2 seconds and there is no guarantee major resolve will be what you debuff. On top of which resolving vigor now rebuffs major resolve every time you use it to heal. It’s a fake narrative the same way cries about proc sets were a fake narrative years ago. Now days many players use procs and enjoy the interesting gameplay effects.
Sets like this that don’t do damage have to be good or Nobody will use them. Anytime a good set is put on PTS an army of cries ensue to try to get rid of it
NordSwordnBoard wrote: »So, a player can debuff you with a no-cost ranged skill, or use puncture up close to debuff you of all you have going pretty quickly. Yikes.
Yep, I already have my debuff tank build ready to roll. Everyone near me will lost all their armor buffs, get all the armor debuffs, and most of the other debuffs in the game.sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »Set looks fine to me. You can remove debuffs so you should be able to remove buffs too. You can also re-apply buffs or play without them.
I completely disagree with “is there no one else’s” video. He claims that this is as good as a penetration set but it’s a totally bogus claim. You can debuff one major debuff every 2 seconds and there is no guarantee major resolve will be what you debuff. On top of which resolving vigor now rebuffs major resolve every time you use it to heal. It’s a fake narrative the same way cries about proc sets were a fake narrative years ago. Now days many players use procs and enjoy the interesting gameplay effects.
Sets like this that don’t do damage have to be good or Nobody will use them. Anytime a good set is put on PTS an army of cries ensue to try to get rid of it
But, everyone who raised the red flag about procs a few years ago were absolutely right. Procs were insane, and added a ton of damage to players who could stack health and defense.
And, as a result, procs were completely overhauled, with scaling. And now, you only hear about a few outlier sets that a problems and not procs as a whole.
So, procs are in a good spot now, absolutely because people raised a fit and Zos fixed things.
As they should with this set as well.
Really? Procs are in a good place? Just the last patch the forums were howling about how "OP" savage werewolf was. A set that procs a miniscule amount of damage. ZOS only targets the sets that make the most forum noise. You can build all sorts of overwhelming damage builds with all sorts of under-the-radar, low damage sets.
Personally, I like the idea of nocturnal's ploy. It's an entirely new mode of game play. It opens up new options and new things you have to worry about on your build. Debuff tank builds will be needed to give all the classes that got wrecked this patch something to do
NordSwordnBoard wrote: »So, a player can debuff you with a no-cost ranged skill, or use puncture up close to debuff you of all you have going pretty quickly. Yikes.
Yep, I already have my debuff tank build ready to roll. Everyone near me will lost all their armor buffs, get all the armor debuffs, and most of the other debuffs in the game.sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »Set looks fine to me. You can remove debuffs so you should be able to remove buffs too. You can also re-apply buffs or play without them.
I completely disagree with “is there no one else’s” video. He claims that this is as good as a penetration set but it’s a totally bogus claim. You can debuff one major debuff every 2 seconds and there is no guarantee major resolve will be what you debuff. On top of which resolving vigor now rebuffs major resolve every time you use it to heal. It’s a fake narrative the same way cries about proc sets were a fake narrative years ago. Now days many players use procs and enjoy the interesting gameplay effects.
Sets like this that don’t do damage have to be good or Nobody will use them. Anytime a good set is put on PTS an army of cries ensue to try to get rid of it
But, everyone who raised the red flag about procs a few years ago were absolutely right. Procs were insane, and added a ton of damage to players who could stack health and defense.
And, as a result, procs were completely overhauled, with scaling. And now, you only hear about a few outlier sets that a problems and not procs as a whole.
So, procs are in a good spot now, absolutely because people raised a fit and Zos fixed things.
As they should with this set as well.
Really? Procs are in a good place? Just the last patch the forums were howling about how "OP" savage werewolf was. A set that procs a miniscule amount of damage. ZOS only targets the sets that make the most forum noise. You can build all sorts of overwhelming damage builds with all sorts of under-the-radar, low damage sets.
Personally, I like the idea of nocturnal's ploy. It's an entirely new mode of game play. It opens up new options and new things you have to worry about on your build. Debuff tank builds will be needed to give all the classes that got wrecked this patch something to do
NordSwordnBoard wrote: »So, a player can debuff you with a no-cost ranged skill, or use puncture up close to debuff you of all you have going pretty quickly. Yikes.
Yep, I already have my debuff tank build ready to roll. Everyone near me will lost all their armor buffs, get all the armor debuffs, and most of the other debuffs in the game.sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »Set looks fine to me. You can remove debuffs so you should be able to remove buffs too. You can also re-apply buffs or play without them.
I completely disagree with “is there no one else’s” video. He claims that this is as good as a penetration set but it’s a totally bogus claim. You can debuff one major debuff every 2 seconds and there is no guarantee major resolve will be what you debuff. On top of which resolving vigor now rebuffs major resolve every time you use it to heal. It’s a fake narrative the same way cries about proc sets were a fake narrative years ago. Now days many players use procs and enjoy the interesting gameplay effects.
Sets like this that don’t do damage have to be good or Nobody will use them. Anytime a good set is put on PTS an army of cries ensue to try to get rid of it
But, everyone who raised the red flag about procs a few years ago were absolutely right. Procs were insane, and added a ton of damage to players who could stack health and defense.
And, as a result, procs were completely overhauled, with scaling. And now, you only hear about a few outlier sets that a problems and not procs as a whole.
So, procs are in a good spot now, absolutely because people raised a fit and Zos fixed things.
As they should with this set as well.
Really? Procs are in a good place? Just the last patch the forums were howling about how "OP" savage werewolf was. A set that procs a miniscule amount of damage. ZOS only targets the sets that make the most forum noise. You can build all sorts of overwhelming damage builds with all sorts of under-the-radar, low damage sets.
Personally, I like the idea of nocturnal's ploy. It's an entirely new mode of game play. It opens up new options and new things you have to worry about on your build. Debuff tank builds will be needed to give all the classes that got wrecked this patch something to do
The thing is, this isn't a debuff set. It is a dispel set. What this set is doing is magnitudes more powerful than any debuff set in the entire game. Not only are you flat out removing buffs from your opponent, some of which are not re-obtainable as they are sourced from potions, but you are forcing them to spend resources trying to maintain those buffs aswell.
The 5 piece could effectively read: Once every two seconds, randomly remove 40% of your weapons WD/SD, 9k of your target's resistances, 15% of your target's % mitigation modifiers, 20% of your target's critical chance, 30% of your target's AOE mitigation (evasion), 45% of your target's movespeed (expeditions), 40% Of your targets magicka or stamina regen, etc.
It is so far beyond every debuff in the game that it is truly incomprehensible how it was able to make it onto the PTS. Again, even if this set had a 20 second cooldown it would still be in complete contrast to the existing buff/debuff system in the game, and it would fundamentally break how that system is supposed to function. This set needs to be scrapped.
NordSwordnBoard wrote: »So, a player can debuff you with a no-cost ranged skill, or use puncture up close to debuff you of all you have going pretty quickly. Yikes.
Yep, I already have my debuff tank build ready to roll. Everyone near me will lost all their armor buffs, get all the armor debuffs, and most of the other debuffs in the game.sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »Set looks fine to me. You can remove debuffs so you should be able to remove buffs too. You can also re-apply buffs or play without them.
I completely disagree with “is there no one else’s” video. He claims that this is as good as a penetration set but it’s a totally bogus claim. You can debuff one major debuff every 2 seconds and there is no guarantee major resolve will be what you debuff. On top of which resolving vigor now rebuffs major resolve every time you use it to heal. It’s a fake narrative the same way cries about proc sets were a fake narrative years ago. Now days many players use procs and enjoy the interesting gameplay effects.
Sets like this that don’t do damage have to be good or Nobody will use them. Anytime a good set is put on PTS an army of cries ensue to try to get rid of it
But, everyone who raised the red flag about procs a few years ago were absolutely right. Procs were insane, and added a ton of damage to players who could stack health and defense.
And, as a result, procs were completely overhauled, with scaling. And now, you only hear about a few outlier sets that a problems and not procs as a whole.
So, procs are in a good spot now, absolutely because people raised a fit and Zos fixed things.
As they should with this set as well.
Really? Procs are in a good place? Just the last patch the forums were howling about how "OP" savage werewolf was. A set that procs a miniscule amount of damage. ZOS only targets the sets that make the most forum noise. You can build all sorts of overwhelming damage builds with all sorts of under-the-radar, low damage sets.
Personally, I like the idea of nocturnal's ploy. It's an entirely new mode of game play. It opens up new options and new things you have to worry about on your build. Debuff tank builds will be needed to give all the classes that got wrecked this patch something to do
Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »Tbh. It is actually more broken than original Oakensoul on PTS could ever hope to be... and Oaken got adjusted... twice. On the last update PTS and on this update PTS.
It is actually not even sad at this point but rather kinda baffling & even funny that a set that provides a buff to your stats can't be OP, but sets that do ultimate - like damage is not getting a proper adjustment (DC set) or even gets a substantial buff (PB & Hrothgar sets). How is that fair ? On top of that this new proc sets seems to be even more powerful than Negate... it is crazy. Oaken was OP, but at least you still needed to play actively & do stuff yourself lol.
I guess the meta next patch is to run Nocturnal's Ploy & PB set (NPPB build ? ). People will dare to purge de-buffs - they go boom. And if they die because they could not cast speed-buff - they go boom too... And the worst part is that the only way to nerf this is to use this. Because devs do not seem to be listening to player feedback. They mostly look at statistics & metrics what is used and how often.
5 – When you apply a Major Debuff to an enemy, remove a Major Buff with a duration from the target. When you apply a Minor Debuff to an enemy, remove a Minor Buff with a duration from the target. These effects can both occur once every 2 seconds.
This set fundamentally breaks the combat system of ESO, and should never have even passed the drawing board to be allowed onto the PTS. Buff management is a core aspect of the game. Providing a set that allows people to completely negate their target's effort in maintaining their buffs is absurd. Not to mention that this set would fully nullify the target's potions - making things like spellpower/weapon power pots worthless, and severely harming everyone's sustain as their major regeneration buffs from potions are removed.
The concept of this set is flawed at it's base, and should not be allowed to enter the game. Even with a much longer cooldown it would be extremely problematic.
There is still room in no proc campaign.
Lots of proc sets are out of place if you ask me. This is just one more added to the collection.
NordSwordnBoard wrote: »So, a player can debuff you with a no-cost ranged skill, or use puncture up close to debuff you of all you have going pretty quickly. Yikes.
Yep, I already have my debuff tank build ready to roll. Everyone near me will lost all their armor buffs, get all the armor debuffs, and most of the other debuffs in the game.sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »Set looks fine to me. You can remove debuffs so you should be able to remove buffs too. You can also re-apply buffs or play without them.
I completely disagree with “is there no one else’s” video. He claims that this is as good as a penetration set but it’s a totally bogus claim. You can debuff one major debuff every 2 seconds and there is no guarantee major resolve will be what you debuff. On top of which resolving vigor now rebuffs major resolve every time you use it to heal. It’s a fake narrative the same way cries about proc sets were a fake narrative years ago. Now days many players use procs and enjoy the interesting gameplay effects.
Sets like this that don’t do damage have to be good or Nobody will use them. Anytime a good set is put on PTS an army of cries ensue to try to get rid of it
But, everyone who raised the red flag about procs a few years ago were absolutely right. Procs were insane, and added a ton of damage to players who could stack health and defense.
And, as a result, procs were completely overhauled, with scaling. And now, you only hear about a few outlier sets that a problems and not procs as a whole.
So, procs are in a good spot now, absolutely because people raised a fit and Zos fixed things.
As they should with this set as well.
Really? Procs are in a good place? Just the last patch the forums were howling about how "OP" savage werewolf was. A set that procs a miniscule amount of damage. ZOS only targets the sets that make the most forum noise. You can build all sorts of overwhelming damage builds with all sorts of under-the-radar, low damage sets.
Personally, I like the idea of nocturnal's ploy. It's an entirely new mode of game play. It opens up new options and new things you have to worry about on your build. Debuff tank builds will be needed to give all the classes that got wrecked this patch something to do
The thing is, this isn't a debuff set. It is a dispel set. What this set is doing is magnitudes more powerful than any debuff set in the entire game. Not only are you flat out removing buffs from your opponent, some of which are not re-obtainable as they are sourced from potions, but you are forcing them to spend resources trying to maintain those buffs aswell.
The 5 piece could effectively read: Once every two seconds, randomly remove 40% of your weapons WD/SD, 9k of your target's resistances, 15% of your target's % mitigation modifiers, 20% of your target's critical chance, 30% of your target's AOE mitigation (evasion), 45% of your target's movespeed (expeditions), 40% Of your targets magicka or stamina regen, etc.
It is so far beyond every debuff in the game that it is truly incomprehensible how it was able to make it onto the PTS. Again, even if this set had a 20 second cooldown it would still be in complete contrast to the existing buff/debuff system in the game, and it would fundamentally break how that system is supposed to function. This set needs to be scrapped.
A very simple example of this would be my current live Mag Sorc build. The build is admittedly not optimal as it is still a max mag shield sorc, but as that build it is viable.
The non-permanent buffs that build provides are:
Minor Prophecy (From casting a dark magic skill)
Major Expedition (From Boundless, only up 4 seconds)
Major Resolve (From Boundless)
Major Fortitude/Intellect/Endurace (Tri-stat potion)
Major Mending (Only after a restro heavy attack, not much of a factor or an occurrence)
So, of those, Minor Prophecy will be removed every 2 seconds. Meaning, unless I am spamming a dark magic skill, it is gone.
And then every 2 seconds I am losing Expedition, Resolve, Fortitude, Intellect or Endurance.
Well, I can only get the recovery buffs every 40 seconds or so, so within a minimum of 10 seconds, I will not have the recovery buffs. Unless, within that 10 seconds, if Expedition or Resolve are removed, I keep spamming Boundless Storm, a skill that costs 2500 mag. So, I either spend 2500 mag every 2 seconds to ensure that I keep the likelihood of not losing my Recovery buffs, or I lose all of my buffs within 10 seconds.
But, I also can't really afford to lose the Resolve Buff. As the armor provided is at least 1/4 of my total armor on the build. So, losing that is losing a ton of damage mitigation, and making my shields even more of a detriment. So, even after 10 seconds have passed, and I have likely lost my recovery buffs. I then have 30 seconds of my Resolve or Expedition being removed every two seconds.
Which means, that more likely than not, after 16 or so seconds, I have had all of my buffs removed, and, if I wanted to keep up resolve during that time, I have spent at least 10-15K mag on doing so, and still, it is likely going to be removed every 2 seconds now.
Sandman929 wrote: »"Nocturnal’s Ploy: Updated this set’s tooltip to better describe its requirements, such as its inability to trigger off delayed or ticking events."
Well...I guess we know what every one in PvP will be doing next update.
Sandman929 wrote: »"Nocturnal’s Ploy: Updated this set’s tooltip to better describe its requirements, such as its inability to trigger off delayed or ticking events."
Well...I guess we know what every one in PvP will be doing next update.
Oakensoul!Sandman929 wrote: »Well...I guess we know what every one in PvP will be doing next update.
Sandman929 wrote: »"Nocturnal’s Ploy: Updated this set’s tooltip to better describe its requirements, such as its inability to trigger off delayed or ticking events."
Well...I guess we know what every one in PvP will be doing next update.
Oakensoul + Nocturnal Ploy + Dark Convergence = Profit.
Sandman929 wrote: »"Nocturnal’s Ploy: Updated this set’s tooltip to better describe its requirements, such as its inability to trigger off delayed or ticking events."
Well...I guess we know what every one in PvP will be doing next update.
Oakensoul + Nocturnal Ploy + Dark Convergence = Profit.
Or just run Kynmarcher's and add an AoE Major debuff every 8 seconds on top of your skill based debuffs.
StarOfElyon wrote: »I'm really hoping my characters using Daedric Trickery and/or Wretched Vitality aren't nullified by Nocturnal's Ploy.
TechMaybeHic wrote: »They really are going to go through with this tripe; arent they?