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PTS Update 35 - Feedback Thread for Combat Balance Changes

ZOS_GinaBruno
ZOS_GinaBruno
Community Manager
This is the official feedback thread for the combat changes in Update 35. After you have a chance to try out different combat scenarios, let us know what you think of the current balance and changes. Specific feedback that the team is looking for includes the following:
  • Light and Heavy Attacks
    • Did you notice these adjustments on the PTS while playing?
      • If you did, was it better or worse in your experience?
      • What activities did you primarily feel the differences in, if any (parsing, dungeons, overland, dueling)? Please feel free to include before and after images of metrics on data, such as combat logs, to showcase your point.
    • Do you feel like Light and Heavy Attacks still provide meaningful impact to your play experience after the adjustments? Please explain your reasoning.
  • Damage over Time
    • Did you notice these adjustments on the PTS while playing?
      • If you did, was it better or worse in your experience?
      • What activities did you primarily feel the differences in, if any (parsing, dungeons, overland, dueling)? Please feel free to include before and after images of metrics on data, such as combat logs, to showcase your point.
    • After the balance changes, did you make changes to the amount of Damage over Time abilities your build utilized? Please explain any reasoning.
    • While using Damage over Time effects, did you notice any other impacts on your play experience?
  • Healing over Time
    • Did you notice these adjustments on the PTS while playing?
      • If you did, was it better or worse in your experience?
      • What activities did you primarily feel the differences in, if any (parsing, dungeons, overland, dueling)? Please feel free to include before and after images of metrics on data, such as combat logs, to showcase your point.
    • After the balance changes, did you make changes to the amount of Healing over Time abilities your build utilized? Please explain any reasoning.
    • While using Healing over Time effects, did you notice any other impacts on your play experience?
    • How do you feel about the healing experience and its overall impact in your primary activities (PvP/Dungeons/Solo/Trials)? Has your sentiment changed based on these PTS adjustments?
Edited by ZOS_Volpe on July 14, 2022 2:23PM
Gina Bruno
Senior Community Manager
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Staff Post
  • acastanza_ESO
    acastanza_ESO
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    We' ve told you resoundingly no to these changes.

    Edit: LOL there isn't even a Sorc class left after this. This is a joke.
    Edited by acastanza_ESO on July 11, 2022 9:15PM
  • Chilly-McFreeze
    Chilly-McFreeze
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    At least you are thorough with your changes. Nerfed LA dmg, nerfed crystal weapons by 41,5% and bound armaments by 38% as well.
    Nice Job.
    Sincerely, a former stam sorc main
  • Remathilis
    Remathilis
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    Warden's are mad. Sorcs are mad. Templars are mad. Necros are mad. DKs are furious. And NBs would be mad if there were any.

    I'd say good job. When nobody's happy, everyone wins.
  • acastanza_ESO
    acastanza_ESO
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    At least you are thorough with your changes. Nerfed LA dmg, nerfed crystal weapons by 41,5% and bound armaments by 38% as well.
    Nice Job.
    Sincerely, a former stam sorc main

    StamSorc was definitely too strong, but this completely gutted it, it also took a dump on MagSorc which was already underperforming. Now there aren't even any good StamSkills for MagSorc to pull from - which were the only things keeping MagSorc viable.
  • Faulgor
    Faulgor
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    With damage frequency lowered, all proc chances should be adjusted.

    All AoE DoTs and lots of heals have had their tick frequency lowered, from once per second to every 2 seconds.
    This is a staggering 50% reduction of all effects that proc off this damage.

    For many sets and skills, this is a significant nerf. E.g., every set that procs on crit damage, like Briarheart. Or skills like Sorcerer's Surge. Even something like the Ring of the Pale Order is affected, because you can no longer count on getting healed every second as long as a DoT is running. Not to mention simple proc sets like Storm-Cursed's Revenge which proc on Shock Damage - with virtually all shock damage being from DoTs, this is an absolutely monumental nerf to an already mediocre set.

    If this frequency nerf goes through, all, absolutely all proc effects in the game have to re-evaluated, and probably buffed. Unless you are prepared to do this, I beg you to reconsider.

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/611086/with-damage-frequency-lowered-all-proc-chances-should-be-adjusted
    Alandrol Sul: He's making another Numidium?!?
    Vivec: Worse, buddy. They're buying it.
  • Thretion
    Thretion
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    Dear ZoS, try to play your game yourself. After all, only a person who has never launched the game at a high level can do this...
  • Vertun
    Vertun
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    Pls just no... All i love is much action and high apm... APM is just dope for me :/
  • IronWooshu
    IronWooshu
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    Can someone explain to me why Dragonknight lost damage over time per tick on their abilities to account for the new changes meanwhile the Necromancer dot per tick got buffed?
  • Firstmep
    Firstmep
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    Remathilis wrote: »
    Warden's are mad. Sorcs are mad. Templars are mad. Necros are mad. DKs are furious. And NBs would be mad if there were any.

    I'd say good job. When nobody's happy, everyone wins.

    Yeah i mean the team were only able to cram a measly 6 nightblade buffs into this patch, surely NB mains are malding.
    "how dare zos make suprise attack always crit" nb mains are thinking right about now XD
  • CameraBeardThePirate
    CameraBeardThePirate
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    Necro Changes:

    While intensive mender was certainly overtuned, I think the "fix" to Spirit Guardian is pretty bad. Your ghost being able to die while not offering pretty much any amount of useful healing means that both morphs are now a little underwhelming.

    Additionally, I find it kind of a slap in the face that Surprise Attack, one of the stronger spammables in the game, got a buff but neither morph of Skulls got any sort of change. Skulls are currently the blandest spammable out there, and neither extra effect is particularly good. Cliff Racer was given fun and unique effects, why not do the same for Skulls? They're practically unusable in PvP because they're super easy to dodge and don't really provide anything special when compared to other spammables.
  • EnderSouth2468
    EnderSouth2468
    Soul Shriven
    It is going to be hard to determine true differences between live and PTS when adjustments have been made to the target dummies. Is there any possibility of the dummy being adjusted to the same settings as live for a period of time so that we can better understand the impact of changes on our live dps vs dps with the changes? Changing combat systems and the standards of measuring their impact at the same time could obfuscate data and confuse players.
  • Malthorne
    Malthorne
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    Lava Whip
    Molten Whip (morph):
    This morph now causes the ability to split the cost to half Stamina and half Magicka

    Stamina DKs are halfway to getting the stam whip we’ve requested since 2015. Hang in there bois, we’ll get there eventually. Just a few more years of asking and we will surely wear them down.
  • Stamicka
    Stamicka
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    Increasing DOT duration will allow players to use their spammables much more often. So yes, the game may feel less "micromanagey", but it will only become more spammy which is much less fun in my opinion. Spamming the same button 14+ times in a row isn't the gameplay many people want. The combat at least feels more dynamic and engaging with shorter DOT durations.
  • TyrickEU
    TyrickEU
    Soul Shriven
    Yes, everything is great.
    I'd do everything to get rid of <snip>"weaving".
    Hopefully one day my friends can also come back to the game. Most of them left because of the combat.

    <snipped for baiting>
    Edited by ZOS_Hadeostry on July 11, 2022 7:33PM
    "Do I care for the lives of mortals? No. Do you care for the lives of ants that crawls beneath your feet?"
  • Dragonlord573
    Dragonlord573
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    Patch notes shouldn't be met with dread, this is awful.
  • Tommy_The_Gun
    Tommy_The_Gun
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    I don't know if this is the right place to post, but I would like to say something about Plaguebreak set:

    The main issue with this set is not the DOT damage, bu rather the fact that this set effect is triggered (proced) when target dies. From the description of this item, it sound like it should only proc when the effect was removed early (purged). Dying, does not remove negative effects. If I have a sorc's Haunting Curse on me, and I die - then the effect is not removed. It still explodes.

    The way Plaguebreak is coded, makes it act more like "a better version" of Vicious Death. It punishes dying. It is not punishing purge-spamming.
  • acastanza_ESO
    acastanza_ESO
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    It is going to be hard to determine true differences between live and PTS when adjustments have been made to the target dummies. Is there any possibility of the dummy being adjusted to the same settings as live for a period of time so that we can better understand the impact of changes on our live dps vs dps with the changes? Changing combat systems and the standards of measuring their impact at the same time could obfuscate data and confuse players.

    No because they did this on purpose so we can't give them apples-to-apples comparisons of how bad these changes are.
    It's a joke.
  • SiAScORCH
    SiAScORCH
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    It's like you guys are incapable of balancing PvE and PvP separate. It's ridiculous.

    Oakensoul was perfectly fine for PvE, and all you had to do to adjust it for PvP, was make it so when battle spirit was active all major buffs are minor buffs, it's not hard.
  • Breakwell
    Breakwell
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    Throw this whole patch in the garbage you people are embarrassing yourselves
  • Zekka
    Zekka
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    Necro Changes:

    While intensive mender was certainly overtuned, I think the "fix" to Spirit Guardian is pretty bad. Your ghost being able to die while not offering pretty much any amount of useful healing means that both morphs are now a little underwhelming.

    Additionally, I find it kind of a slap in the face that Surprise Attack, one of the stronger spammables in the game, got a buff but neither morph of Skulls got any sort of change. Skulls are currently the blandest spammable out there, and neither extra effect is particularly good. Cliff Racer was given fun and unique effects, why not do the same for Skulls? They're practically unusable in PvP because they're super easy to dodge and don't really provide anything special when compared to other spammables.

    It's cool though, Grave Grasp, one of the biggest meme skills in the game got buffed. Longer maim duration, just what it needed yay!
    Also stamcro damage dealers are really strong in PvE so the class is fine.

    And no Carryluurion nerfs in sight while Dark Convergence got a 10 s longer cooldown.
  • Necrotech_Master
    Necrotech_Master
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    reading through the notes, i think the light and heavy changes will probably be OK, since everything that buffs those adds raw dmg now instead of a floating value like weapon and spell dmg

    i am extremely disappointed in the changes for DoTs, that is going to be make them feel incredibly slow

    ticks every 2 sec is VERY slow and on top of that reducing the avg dmg per tick by 33% is going to make them feel incredibly weak
    plays PC/NA
    handle @Necrotech_Master
    active player since april 2014
  • Stncold
    Stncold
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    Remathilis wrote: »
    Warden's are mad. Sorcs are mad. Templars are mad. Necros are mad. DKs are furious. And NBs would be mad if there were any.

    I'd say good job. When nobody's happy, everyone wins.

    What the hell are NBs mad about? Surprise attack being an auto crit when flanking or killer's blade finally rivaling weapon executes? Two things they've wanted forever?
  • helios777
    helios777
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    I have yet to see a positive thing said about these changes and they’ve been out for hours lmao
    Grand Warlord HAXERUS. One of the last OG Mag DKs.
    Mag DK through Thick and Thin.
    Retired from Cyrodiil until they finally decide to fix the performance, which is probably never.
  • Troodon80
    Troodon80
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    Patch notes shouldn't be met with dread, this is awful.
    TyrickEU wrote: »
    Yes, everything is great.
    I'd do everything to get rid of the exploit that many people call "weaving".
    Hopefully one day my friends can also come back to the game. Most of them left because of the combat.
    Well, this certainly isn't a polarised response. :D

    @Troodon80 PC | EU
    Guild: N&S
    Hand of Alkosh | Dawnbringer | Immortal Redeemer | Tick Tock Tormentor | Gryphon Heart
    Deep Dive into Dreadsail Reef Mechanics
  • acastanza_ESO
    acastanza_ESO
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    Give the Mage's Wrath the same execute scaling that Killer's Blade got. Come on, you've completely killed Sorcerer as a class, give us SOMETHING.
    Troodon80 wrote: »
    Patch notes shouldn't be met with dread, this is awful.
    TyrickEU wrote: »
    Yes, everything is great.
    I'd do everything to get rid of the exploit that many people call "weaving".
    Hopefully one day my friends can also come back to the game. Most of them left because of the combat.
    Well, this certainly isn't a polarised response. :D

    Tyrick is clearly trolling. Calling weaving an "exploit" is a classic troll move.
    Edited by acastanza_ESO on July 11, 2022 7:30PM
  • prof_doom
    prof_doom
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    helios777 wrote: »
    I have yet to see a positive thing said about these changes and they’ve been out for hours lmao

    There's a couple decent changes, but they're buried in the skyscraper sized pile of really bad ideas.
  • TyrickEU
    TyrickEU
    Soul Shriven
    Give the Mage's Wrath the same execute scaling that Killer's Blade got. Come on, you've completely killed Sorcerer as a class, give us SOMETHING.
    Troodon80 wrote: »
    Patch notes shouldn't be met with dread, this is awful.
    TyrickEU wrote: »
    Yes, everything is great.
    I'd do everything to get rid of the exploit that many people call "weaving".
    Hopefully one day my friends can also come back to the game. Most of them left because of the combat.
    Well, this certainly isn't a polarised response. :D

    Tyrick is clearly trolling. Calling weaving an "exploit" is a classic troll move.

    I'm not trolling. I really hate weaving.
    And I really hope that they will change maybe the CD's of LA or something so it won't even be possible to do it.
    OR... if they leave everything like this at least make the animations fit the 'weaving'.
    Currently because of the animation cancelling it looks like a bugged combat mechanic.
    "Do I care for the lives of mortals? No. Do you care for the lives of ants that crawls beneath your feet?"
  • prof_doom
    prof_doom
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    The change to molten whip just makes it useless for both Stamina and Magicka builds.
    Should just have the cost be in whatever resource the player has the most of.
  • SickleCider
    SickleCider
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    I worry about Crit Surge's healing potential after this patch. Crit Surge is the crutch that keeps magsorc limping along. Could this please be addressed?
    ✨🐦✨ Blackfeather Court Commission ✨🐦✨
  • Blackbird_V
    Blackbird_V
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    Revert all changes and go again.

    Lowering LA damage because of under-preforming players ARE GOING TO UNDERPREFORM MORE. These changes are actually really really bad. We keep saying don't go through with this change or that, but you always go ahead anyway. You've gutted a lot of classes and yeah, nah. More DOT/AOE nerfs on top of the massive nerfs years ago that were so bad you had to buff them... and you've gone and nerfed them harder again.


    I already did not enjoy doing dungeons with players LA spamming etc. and maybe doing 1 or 2 more dots, and now it's gna be depressing as hell. Please. Just don't


    Oh and lets not forget, a LOT of bosses move and people re-position, so they have to re-apply dots/aoes...... Oh and again lets not forget about how bad it will be in PvP. I just do not understand. Catering to the lower-end players underperforming makes this game dull for a lot more people, and these changes affect everyone, including who you are catering to. I just cannot understand.
    Edited by Blackbird_V on July 11, 2022 8:14PM
    Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 25 DLCs. 41 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game.
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