Weaving nerf : good or bad ?

Bealeb319 · July 2022

I think weaving need change, but not like this

The only thing this will do is lower overall dps. You will still need to weave to reach your full potential weather it is more or less impactful doesn't change the fact that it is indeed impactful

Azyle1 · July 2022

No, weaving doesn't need any changes

Faulgor wrote: »

On paper I think it's a good change. Of course things could change on PTS what with all the changes to skills and gear coming along.

I'm just baffled how many people think the sky is falling because LA damage was nerfed. LA weaving isn't any less important for top DPS, it's just a damage nerf, the likes of which we've seen over and over and over again.

Yes. It is just a damage nerf seemingly.

So HOW does this help the less skilled? Isn't that the point? They come out saying there are people who struggle and can't weave/don't have the ability. This does nothing to help them.

Jpk0012 · July 2022

No, weaving doesn't need any changes

Azyle1 wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

On paper I think it's a good change. Of course things could change on PTS what with all the changes to skills and gear coming along.

I'm just baffled how many people think the sky is falling because LA damage was nerfed. LA weaving isn't any less important for top DPS, it's just a damage nerf, the likes of which we've seen over and over and over again.

Yes. It is just a damage nerf seemingly.

So HOW does this help the less skilled? Isn't that the point? They come out saying there are people who struggle and can't weave/don't have the ability. This does nothing to help them.

It doesn't. Just like the CP nerf did nothing, but hurt casual players. The DPS gap is exactly the same.

Unknown_Redemption · July 2022

Yes, it's a great change

LashanW wrote: »

It's just 5 days for PTS update. Better hold your horses until we see the changes in action.

Given your avatar; shouldnt it be hold your guars?

BahometZ · July 2022

No, weaving doesn't need any changes

Would just like zos to fix what they started before moving on to changing what is unnecessary. Hybrid system is still unfinished; many sets are still based on old system and/or made pointless by hybridisation, class passives and potions are still based on old system, classes haven't been adjusted for hybridisation, classes are still chained to skills to stay competitive, sorcs have to use pets, templars have to use jabs to proc burning light, wardens have to use Bear ult or their dps suffers.

The system of normal > vet > hm does not prepare players to progress to difficult content. Weaving will not change the capacity for players to complete challenging content. Players inability to master the game will continue to hold them back. Zos are making changes that will not fix the problems they've invented. Apm is a meaningless buzz word.

How can zos seriously complain about the power creep that they themselves create with increasingly powerful sets each patch. Also, if they are going to reduce high end damage, what are their plans for players chances of getting planesbreaker moving forward?

I lament the one step forward two steps backward approach rather Zos continuously make. They continuously chip away at sections of the community who put thought and effort into playing the game all to appease low effort players who won't even read patch notes.

Tornaad · July 2022

Waiting for PTS / natch potes

If it were just by itself, then I would say it was a bad idea, but taken in context with the rest of the changes, I think the real answer is to be determined.

MikeSkyrim333 · July 2022

I think weaving need change, but not like this

So those who just LA in normal dungeons will do even less dmg now

Supreme_Atromancer · July 2022

Yes, it's a great change

Azyle1 wrote: »

So this is just lowering the ceiling because other players cannot do something? Is that it?

You're halfway there, but no. Its about what it means for the health of the game if people cannot do something. Or wont do something. ZOS can't afford to ignore that, and if they did, you'd be soon complaining about a dead game and how ZOS ruined everything and how the entitled generation ruined everything.

Weaving is the red-headed step-elephant in the MMO lobby. It is awkward, looks awkward, divides the community in many undesirable ways and is a genuine barrier to engagement.

If they are changing it, we can infer that it isn't great for the health of the game. Despite this, the announcement is a strong indication that ZOS wants to hold onto it regardless. Because people like you enjoy it.

Remathilis · July 2022

Waiting for PTS / natch potes

CaptainVenom wrote: »

Let's wait and see how it changes during PTS cycle before jumping to conclusions, shall we?

"But the pts goes live in 5 days and I'm Angry NOW!"

prof_doom · July 2022

No, weaving doesn't need any changes

It's not going to fulfill the stated goal of "closing the gap".
So long as weaving exists, so will the gap.

Didgerion · July 2022

No, weaving doesn't need any changes

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

I'm very neutral about it, and I have to actually test and see how it is on PTS. It may sound scary to other DPS mains and they'll freak out, but that usually seems to be the trend with big changes in ESO. Rather than wait and test, sit there and scream over text when the PTS patch isn't even up yet.

I think it is the tank mains who need to worry. PUG groups will do way less damage and they can do nothing to help.

SirLeeMinion · July 2022

Waiting for PTS / natch potes

I expect a buff to the people running around with a gold non-set sword and purple unmatched WhateverDroppedWherever armor.

As usual, everyone else will be nerfed.

Trials bosses will remain unchanged, and related Vet clears & achievements will be harder for everyone.

Copious testing results and suggestions will be given on the PTS forum. All will be ignored.

The winter 2022 patch will, include a radical correction in some new direction. The new DLCs will include OP gear that allows some to grind out somewhat viable alternative builds.

Three months later, those sets will get nerfed.

I'd grab some popcorn, but this pattern is so old it's gone stale.

Holycannoli · July 2022

LA and HA will really only be used to generate ultimate and maybe procs after this.

I'm gonna hold off on judging until I see the effects, but it's about time they addressed what was originally a bug or oversight.

Oh, and the completely OP 30k+ damage inferno heavy attacks...could that be what prompted this? Crystal Weapon will be nerfed too, maybe not as drastically but those two light attacks will be mainly that skill's damage instead of that skill + LA damage. This might not be a bad change even if it might make my stam sorc main cry lol. Depends on how drastic the damage nerf is.

Marquestion · July 2022

No, weaving doesn't need any changes

weav is the thing why I enjoy this game

Didgerion · July 2022

No, weaving doesn't need any changes

davidtk wrote: »

I'd rather wait for the PTS patch. Rather than jumping to conclusions...

The conclusion is they are adjusting things that don't need adjusted.

And their argument for doing it is a nonsense. They are raising the floor they say? How about the new players that do 5 light attacks and one skill (ex: new NBs with merciless resolve) or new players that do 2 light attacks and one skill (ex: new sorcs with crystal weapon) or new players that are out of resources....there is no raising the floor for them isn't it?

Parasaurolophus · July 2022

Waiting for PTS / natch potes

I wouldn't be so dramatic. Weaving and rotation will continue to be an element of l2p and an indicator of the player's skill. It's just that combat content will become available to more players. I would like to hope that this will be some kind of start for what we usually call vet overland.

d.schaerb16_ESO2 · July 2022

No, weaving doesn't need any changes

only way to close the gap is make light attacks to autoattacks, like wow. or let them do 1 dmg. but this does nothing

Bat · July 2022

No, weaving doesn't need any changes

JMadFour wrote: »

EnerG wrote: »

And yes thats a fault of zos for not really acknowledging this mechanic of their games in any real in game capacity,

The thing about this, is...it's not a mechanic. Not an intended one anyway. It never has been. It's a bug that ZOS has never been able to fix, so they just stopped acknowledging it, and the players took it and ran with it.

Wrong! There is even a loading screen tool tip that explains weaving! They fully embraced it and made damng well sure to design some of the game's hardest content with weaving damage output possibilities in mind. This falsehood needs to stop being regurgitated.

Bat · July 2022

No, weaving doesn't need any changes

This idea is so dumb I can't believe they're even considering it.

propertyOfUndefined · July 2022

Yes, it's a great change

I honestly feel like weaving turns off many potential dedicated players. They buy the base game, reach max level, queue for dungeons, then get told they aren’t good enough. Some decide to limit their focus to other aspects of the game that don’t require weaving - e.g. RP, furnishing, or even tanking / healing. Most probably just quit.

These players have experience with tracking cooldowns from other games, which is far less stressful and allows them to focus more on learning dungeon mechanics.

I think the game will benefit greatly from this change.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · July 2022

Waiting for PTS / natch potes

Gonna need to see how it plays out. If they do the same thing to HA and LAs, you run the risk that you simultaneously lower both the ceiling and the floor. The Floor uses HA for damage, the Ceiling uses them for sustain (occasionally).

Not the first and probably wont be the last time they adjust LA damage. I currently do nothing specifically to build for it, so simply put, the DPS number on LAs is likely going to drop. It will likely give the biggest nerf to players with a perfect weave, and the less skilled you are at weaving, the less you will feel the nerf. Makes sense in theory, but we will need to see how the numbers play out.

That said, I dont see it having the impact the floor is going to hope for. Sure weaving adds DPS, but the real art to high parses is about pace (maintaining GCDs) and casting duration skills as they expire. Weaving LAs is the easy part.

colossalvoids · July 2022

No, weaving doesn't need any changes

Obviously waiting for pts as more things would also have its ripple effect but it's still funny remembering Summerset patch notes saying that they want to bring the bottom closer to the top by boosting the hell out of light attacks and now see this same thing vice versa for some unknown reasons. It wasn't a problem before that the top was able to also utilise said buff as the reason was to up the very bottom and it was successful.

Fact that pug damage gone up at this time, at it would probably drop significantly after the changes as light and heavy attacks are like bigger half of what they generally do.

Top DPS would still get all the good group support and will have knowledge and rotation so nothing would change at all in a bigger picture. People who can't do rotation won't become more welcomed just because they can slack more whilst weaving, I'd even say people would look even closer to the LA's in parses to see if they can squeeze more out of their rotation rather than today's free good chunk of damage.

Navras · July 2022

Yes, it's a great change

I'm a 100k+ dps pve player who is still spending a lot of time mastering weaving and builds because I love this part of the game.
Weaving is a toxic behaviour, it won't be missed if it is somehow wholly replaced. It's just a stupid mechanic that should have not been here in the first place.
I'm positive about the upcoming changes, let's see how they play out on pts and on content.
gl devs

imno007b14_ESO · July 2022

I think weaving need change, but not like this

I imagine a lot of people will take this as good news, but be careful what you wish for. Will this make higher end content more available to more people? I doubt it. With this continuous nerf to dps, it just means that people will have to be that much more familiar with the mechanics and, if anything, this could mean inexperienced players being excluded even more. Also, I imagine that it will translate into more content taking longer to complete, and most people would probably agree that trials and harder dungeons are enough of a time-sink as is. This could mean fewer people wanting to make the effort, because of that time investment, especially if they themselves don't need any of the rewards from doing the content.

the1andonlyskwex · July 2022

I think weaving need change, but not like this

I suppose in some perverse way this change could encourage more people to weave, because weaving will be a bigger percentage of DPS for people with bad/leveling gear.

Ittrix · July 2022

I think weaving need change, but not like this

I posted this on the change thread itself, but here's a parse of someone using just one skill (no light attacks whatsoever) to pull 60k from last year.

Unless we're gonna start arguing that pressing a button once every second is a skillful thing not everyone can do, skill clearly has nothing to do with getting a decent parse that can do most content.

Nerfing light attack weaving and buffing other stuff isn't gonna help anyone get into a group they couldn't get in before.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · July 2022

Waiting for PTS / natch potes

Ittrix wrote: »

I posted this on the change thread itself, but here's a parse of someone using just one skill (no light attacks whatsoever) to pull 60k from last year.

Unless we're gonna start arguing that pressing a button once every second is a skillful thing not everyone can do, skill clearly has nothing to do with getting a decent parse that can do most content.

Nerfing light attack weaving and buffing other stuff isn't gonna help anyone get into a group they couldn't get in before.

I think that is a VERY true statement. Weaving just isn't the hardest or most skillful component to a high end parse. It will certainly lower the ceiling, but I am not sure it raises the floor in any meaningful way.

I look at parses all the time. The number of missed LAs is not what is holding most people back. It's the pace of their rotation. Now of course, weaving can make maintaining pace more difficult, but I have done parses both ways. My pace doesn't really go up when I stop weaving, in fact, I have found that when I don't weave, my pace becomes more erratic.

You can absolutely break 100k in todays meta without weaving at all.

imno007b14_ESO · July 2022

I think weaving need change, but not like this

Ittrix wrote: »

I posted this on the change thread itself, but here's a parse of someone using just one skill (no light attacks whatsoever) to pull 60k from last year.

Unless we're gonna start arguing that pressing a button once every second is a skillful thing not everyone can do, skill clearly has nothing to do with getting a decent parse that can do most content.

Nerfing light attack weaving and buffing other stuff isn't gonna help anyone get into a group they couldn't get in before.

It obviously IS a thing that not everyone can do, because if everyone could do it then everyone would be parsing over a 100k. Also, that's a parse using what might be the only skill in the game you could do that with. In any case, if 60-80k is what you consider ideal, just expect a lot of content to take a long time. Hope you have at least a few hours set aside for that vet trial you might have in mind.

Jaimeh · July 2022

No, weaving doesn't need any changes

LA weaving will do less damage, so it won't matter as much for those who can't do it well anyway, and longer dots will make rotations slower, so basically they are trying to make combat involve less APM. For me that's not a good change, I don't think it goed with the combat in this game. And it's very much driven by financial decisions not balance decisions, because they want to appeal to the majority of playerbase.

Grandchamp1989 · July 2022

Waiting for PTS / natch potes

Getting the ceiling down and raising the floor is IMO a good idea.
But lets see how far the ceiling is being lowered because their recent hardmode content is exceptionally hard.

However I fear this will make it so easy in regular vet - it'll be like bringing overland content to regular vet group content.
20-30 second combat prayer.. What are healer's to do while they wait for their 20-30 seconds abilities to run out? Heavy attack?

I'm a bit confused.
This will be a massive shift.. I'm not sure about this.