ZOS: Answer this question! Can only the picker of the lock get the lead?

PeacefulAnarchy · June 2022

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

Ok real question: how do the devs not know the answer to this? Aren't they the ones that code it?

What they wanted to code and what they ended up coding may not be the same. They don't want to say "it does x" if they accidentally bugged it to do y instead. I'm sure they know what the answer is supposed to be, but want to confirm that it's actually what is happening to avoid more confusion.

Jaraal · June 2022

PeacefulAnarchy wrote: »

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

Ok real question: how do the devs not know the answer to this? Aren't they the ones that code it?

What they wanted to code and what they ended up coding may not be the same. They don't want to say "it does x" if they accidentally bugged it to do y instead. I'm sure they know what the answer is supposed to be, but want to confirm that it's actually what is happening to avoid more confusion.

Are any of the original coders from 2013 still there? It's possible that they don't actually know.

kindnuguz · June 2022

After standing around and waiting, and getting so many trolls and it feels like "entitled" players (including my self) coming up to the boxes.
I can't do it, it feels so awkward and unnatural.
I didn't deal with Shadowfen situation cause I quit playing for over a year.

But a quick solution (band aid if you will)

30 second respawn timer (on the boxes)
100% drop rate (on the lead)

This would only require changing numbers and not recoding where or how it drops.
Then after all this settles down it can be changed back but in the current state, it's a mess.
idk just my suggestion.

I don't know if GM's monitor the game live or zone chat, but even if they logged on and went and looked at what is going on.
I tried at 4-5am when normally it's dead time and it was still 5-8 people at each box.

Anyways

Hotdog_23 · June 2022

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi All, we are working on clarifying this issue with the Dev team. We probably won't have an answer until tomorrow. The team has been chatting about this throughout the day, hence the delay in response. So please hang tight while we work through this.

Lastly, please do not jump on each other here please. We understand the frustration, but it isn't helpful for anyone involved. The last thing we want is for moderations to have to constantly snip or remove comments.

Console player here so I have not had to deal with this mess yet but think it is funny that after no answer was given and no further communication except telling everyone to follow the rules. You could have at least given an update after 24 hrs. that you are still talking about it and figuring out how your game is supposed to work. Rather than leaving everyone with resentment, angry and frustration growing more and more.

You could at least own up to the fact that you like and believe this is fun and engaging game play and you are happy with it. Or hey I think we messed up and didn’t listen to our players again and need to address and fix this. Or continue what you are doing and leaving up the wall of silence since it seems to be the usual means of communication and ordinary standard of practice.

Heads up if you didn’t know it but your attempt at improved communication is failing, hard.

Stay safe everyone

Yasha · June 2022

kindnuguz wrote: »

After standing around and waiting, and getting so many trolls and it feels like "entitled" players (including my self) coming up to the boxes.
I can't do it, it feels so awkward and unnatural.
I didn't deal with Shadowfen situation cause I quit playing for over a year.

But a quick solution (band aid if you will)

30 second respawn timer (on the boxes)
100% drop rate (on the lead)

This would only require changing numbers and not recoding where or how it drops.
Then after all this settles down it can be changed back but in the current state, it's a mess.
idk just my suggestion.

I don't know if GM's monitor the game live or zone chat, but even if they logged on and went and looked at what is going on.
I tried at 4-5am when normally it's dead time and it was still 5-8 people at each box.

Anyways

Same here, I have tried at various different times day/night and there is always a small crowd. I do all the things my friends have done to get it, but for some reason (probably high ping) I never get to even open a chest.

Rogue_WolfESO · June 2022

I got the lead last night , I was the picker, 2nd locking attempt, looted the lead only and left the other items to see if anyone else in the stack would also get a chance at the lead. Nobody else got it at that time.

Amottica · June 2022

Pevey wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Lord_Nikon wrote: »

belial5221_ESO wrote: »

You get it unlocking safeboxes and it'll appear,others won't see it if you left it there.Already tried with my bro a few times to testif we both get it,so is tied to account that opened it as far as we can tell.

So grouping of any sort won't help then? Wow... Way to promote community and friendship...

Nothing about antiquities is shared so far. No reason to expect it would have started with this update.

Heck, even leads that are in group content are still individual drops.

While the leads themselves are not shared, container instances can be. Plenty of people turned off auto-loot and shared spawns during the shadowfen lead hunt, because only looting the lead left the container open for other players to check for a lead. As long as no-one looted the other items in the node, it stayed open for everyone to check for a lead.

Do you have an example where a lead was shared in this manner?

I am not aware of any which goes back to my statement that leads have always been an individual thing.

I very clearly stated the leads are not shared.

The container is shared.

Just like any treasure chest for example. Pick the lock, open the chest, don't take anything. And then the next player can come along and open the same chest and see the loot that you left.

However, with leads, if you open the chest and see a lead and take the lead, but leave everything else, the second player will open the same chest, see the loot you left behind, and have their own chance at a lead dropping for them.

This is literally what people did in shadowfen. So to your point, do I have an example? Yes, tons of people did this while farming the lead in shadowfen water nodes. Tons of players did this and it worked.

So asking if it works for this lead is a pretty valid question, because the precedent has already been set that it would work with other loot containers.

Thx but that is not an example of the lead being one of the items that can be shared. In that, there is no need or reason for the lead to be an item that can be left behind for someone else to pick up.

There is a timer for the chest to disappear after it has been tampered with.

But no one is even talking about the lead being left behind. This entire thread is about not completely looting the container, so that it remains in places and other people have a chance to proc the lead drop by viewing it.

If you looked at the history of what you quoted you would find I was replying to the following sentence.

So grouping of any sort won't help then? Wow... Way to promote community and friendship.

And that I pointed out that nothing about antiquities is shared and that there was no reason to think it would begin now.

And for some reason, people are taking issue with my comment there which is an obviously very much a fact, not an opinion,

But, in my comment, I outlined how a chest could be shared. Which, would be a benefit to a group as that group could communicate their success or failure, or even whether they've had a chance to view the chest.

Plenty of people grouped in shadowfen to do this very same thing, to great success.

But if the lead only drops for the player who picks the lock, then none of that is useful and it's first come first serve.

To add to that, my literal first sentence in that initial response agreed that the lead itself cannot be shared. And then you asked me to prove that it could for some reason. When the entirety of my comment was that other container sources could be shared amongst players for chances to drop a lead for a player.

Chests in group dungeons are instances to each player. Everyone gets different loot. Chests and safe boxes in the overland do not work like that. So the example you have is not relevant.

I know people would like to believe otherwise, but only the person who opens the box first can get the lead. Anyone is welcome to believe whatever, but it is false hope.

Thank you for pointing this out.

As I originally said in reply to a statement about how the design of this lead does not promote community and friendship, getting leads has always been an individual thing. Even when the activity is a group activity getting the lead is still an individual dice roll.

Good luck to everyone still seeking this lead.

KKolly · June 2022

I've spoken to 9 different people (10 if you include myself) who have the ring, and every single one of us got it from picking the lock. Its possible this is coincidence, but its unlikely.

Hamiltonmath · June 2022

They could do any of these things : Lead percentage up, respawn timer down, number of instances up. I've camped for about two hours and I haven't had the opportunity to open a single box. Tried getting up at 3am and still had at least five players at each spawn. I know that people say to be just patient, but I worry that I'll get it and then they'll immediately nerf it into the ground and I won't get to have fun with it at all.

ZOS_Kevin · June 2022

Hi All, wanted to provide an update here. We have passed feedback to the dev team and they are looking into some changes to be discussed at a later date. We'll follow up once more information is available.

We have passed this thread along specifically, so the team is going through comments here as well.

TPishek · June 2022

That isn't helpful.

ApoAlaia · June 2022

TPishek wrote: »

That isn't helpful.

We ask them to comment even if there isn't anything concrete to report, they do that, we complain that they comment when there isn't anything concrete to report.

Making this a 'can't win' situation is not helping anyone either.

TPishek · June 2022

ApoAlaia wrote: »

TPishek wrote: »

That isn't helpful.

We ask them to comment even if there isn't anything concrete to report, they do that, we complain that they comment when there isn't anything concrete to report.

Making this a 'can't win' situation is not helping anyone either.

It's not that, he literally posted nearly word for word the same thing they already posted. It's not telling us anything, it's noise.

ZOS_Kevin · June 2022

@TPishek This isn't noise. We have been talking to the dev team daily on this issue. There is nothing to add right now because the team is working on a solution based on player feedback. The work does not happen overnight and we want to make sure we are keeping everyone in the loop as we understand this is an issue for the community. This will be a longer process.

Jaraal · June 2022

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

@TPishek This isn't noise. We have been talking to the dev team daily on this issue. There is nothing to add right now because the team is working on a solution based on player feedback. The work does not happen overnight and we want to make sure we are keeping everyone in the loop as we understand this is an issue for the community. This will be a longer process.

This still completely avoids the question of the original post. Does only the lock picker get the lead, or can others loot it?

Why would you be "looking into some changes to discuss at a later date" to answer it?

acastanza_ESO · June 2022

It is noise. We asked a simple question about the mechanics as they currently are not about what you might or might not be planning to change just how this (unacceptable) experience currently functions. The inability to unambiguously answer that question is baffling and, frankly, insulting at this point.

SilverBride · June 2022

Leaving items in a safebox solely to keep it from closing so multiple players can try to get a rare lead from one box should not be allowed in my opinion.

Amottica · June 2022

Jaraal wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

@TPishek This isn't noise. We have been talking to the dev team daily on this issue. There is nothing to add right now because the team is working on a solution based on player feedback. The work does not happen overnight and we want to make sure we are keeping everyone in the loop as we understand this is an issue for the community. This will be a longer process.

This still completely avoids the question of the original post. Does only the lock picker get the lead, or can others loot it?

Why would you be "looking into some changes to discuss at a later date" to answer it?

@Jaraal

The posts where players are explaining their experience seems to provide a very solid answer that only the player that opens the box can get the lead.

And to the second question, Zenimax would need to look at different options to change to and decide which one. They work out the solution and when to launch it. That is what Kevin is speaking to.

@ZOS_Kevin Thank you for communicating with us about this. It is much appreciated.

Jaimeh · June 2022

It reminded me of that time we had to read a letter on a table in nighthollow castle for something, and there was a crowd of people all pressing buttons frantically because only one person could read it per spawn...

Navarril · June 2022

Jaimeh wrote: »

It reminded me of that time we had to read a letter on a table in nighthollow castle for something, and there was a crowd of people all pressing buttons frantically because only one person could read it per spawn...

Hey bro, this mechanic is tried and true. Roll with it.

kargen27 · June 2022

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

It is noise. We asked a simple question about the mechanics as they currently are not about what you might or might not be planning to change just how this (unacceptable) experience currently functions. The inability to unambiguously answer that question is baffling and, frankly, insulting at this point.

I'm kind of thinking they did answer it by responding that they are working on a solution. By not telling us the mechanic we can be mostly certain it works by unlocking the chest not looking in the chest. That we have zero evidence otherwise is also a good indication that you have to pick the lock to get the lead.

kindnuguz · June 2022

@ZOS_Kevin Thank you for the continued feedback , what you have done in the past few days is head and shoulders above what has happened in the past. So Thank you

Side note: for me is feels so awkward to be in game standing around waiting \ fighting \ competing over something like this.
I truly hope something positive comes from this.

I'm on day 4 of going there , looking and maybe trying a box or 2 but I can't do it for long as again it feels strange with so many players going for the same thing. I would rather give it up and let others have at it than get aggressive and compete for it .

wolfie1.0. · June 2022

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi All, we are working on clarifying this issue with the Dev team. We probably won't have an answer until tomorrow. The team has been chatting about this throughout the day, hence the delay in response. So please hang tight while we work through this.

Lastly, please do not jump on each other here please. We understand the frustration, but it isn't helpful for anyone involved. The last thing we want is for moderations to have to constantly snip or remove comments.

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi All, wanted to provide an update here. We have passed feedback to the dev team and they are looking into some changes to be discussed at a later date. We'll follow up once more information is available.

We have passed this thread along specifically, so the team is going through comments here as well.

@ZOS_Kevin thank you... but it would be nice if we had an answer to the question while they are working on changes...

wolfie1.0. · June 2022

kargen27 wrote: »

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

It is noise. We asked a simple question about the mechanics as they currently are not about what you might or might not be planning to change just how this (unacceptable) experience currently functions. The inability to unambiguously answer that question is baffling and, frankly, insulting at this point.

I'm kind of thinking they did answer it by responding that they are working on a solution. By not telling us the mechanic we can be mostly certain it works by unlocking the chest not looking in the chest. That we have zero evidence otherwise is also a good indication that you have to pick the lock to get the lead.

I agree with you. But it would be very helpful and nice to have some official comment that we could reference insistant players to for reference. Something concrete, specific, and clear. Not just for this lead but for ALL similar and future leads.

@ZOS_Kevin this is really what we need some clarity. Even if the devs change it in a few weeks. Some clarity now will settle a lot of fighting, TOS, and code of conduct violations going on over this issue.

Mr_Stach · June 2022

darvaria · June 2022

I do appreciate the continued feedback. I did manage to get the lead and I was the looter. I set Interact with environment to mouse scroll. I was the picker. I told ppl around me I got it and to let everyone look in the box. No one else got it. From zone chat, it seems that "most" leads come to the ppl that picks the lock. Of course, I can not make that 100% generalization.

Just please let people around loot the box, just for the sake of the community. It has been said others can get the lead without picking. I really dislike the toxic environment this has created.

After mouse wheeling, I picked all of the locks, with about 5 to 7 on my box. I left every box there but a few got auto looted after I closed them. It caused rumbling. I hated to see players think they had been robbed of the chance. One ppl there was slow and had yet to pick a box. This really dampened my joy at receiving the lead. One person even said in zone chat their husband was disabled and this ring would be a game changer. Now, that really breaks my heart to think I took something that a less fortunate person than myself might really need.

We need an official answer, to stop the horrible environment this has caused.

WHY couldn't you just let everyone that opened the box get that lead? It's not really something that is being "earned". Just please give it to all, if the lead is in there and don't let the box disappear.

I am pleading with you to do something like the above suggestion. How wonderful would it be to see 7 or 8 people all getting the lead at the same box? I really can't stand the way this has affected the community. And please don't bring about this situation again. It makes nice players wonder if they belong here. It even makes nice players become "mean girls".

Darv

Jaraal · June 2022

darvaria wrote: »

WHY couldn't you just let everyone that opened the box get that lead? It's not really something that is being "earned". Just please give it to all, if the lead is in there and don't let the box disappear.

The coding for this is already in place with treasure maps. If you open a chest and already have one, you have to destroy yours to loot the new one, or else walk away and let someone else loot the map. ZOS could very easily itemize each safebox with 10-20 leads, which would be unique to the character (like maps) and only be lootable one per person. Everybody wins.

But they are 'planning to have discussions' about it at some point in the future. Doesn't sound like any sort of sense of urgency, to be honest. Perhaps Joe the Coder is on vacation and they are waiting for them to get back so they can edit the code, I don't know. All we can do is speculate as to why they're in no hurry to disperse the current zone toxicity.

EvilAutoTech · June 2022

The thing is, the contents of a shared resource like a treasure chest, thieves trove or node are generated when it's first opened. Anything taken by the first player is gone when subsequent players look into it. Later players only see what the original player left behind.

Pyr0xyrecuprotite · June 2022

Just a reminder that there are a lot of game mechanics that ZOS made purposefully opaque, so that players feel that there is an element of chance - and maybe they got the reward for reasons completely different than why they think they did. I don't think it's correct to *EXPECT* ZOS to explain to the players exactly how something works; only if there is actually a bug or not (for any specific described behaviour).

maxjapank · June 2022

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

@TPishek This isn't noise. We have been talking to the dev team daily on this issue. There is nothing to add right now because the team is working on a solution based on player feedback. The work does not happen overnight and we want to make sure we are keeping everyone in the loop as we understand this is an issue for the community. This will be a longer process.

To be perfectly honest, this is just terrible game design. Players want to be doing something. Not sitting at one spot, spamming a key, trying to be the first to lockpick. At least when killing a boss, many people can get a chance. And except for waiting for the boss to spawn again, at least we are engaged in something when the boss does spawn. And that helps break up the monotony.