ZOS: Answer this question! Can only the picker of the lock get the lead?

kindnuguz

In the same sense , how many of us have been looting treasure chests and it's already picked, look inside and the gold is removed and trash left behind (mostly lower level loot (I do think the level of gear was changed) , aka new players learning or other things). We continue and keep finding the treasure chest already opened.

I highly doubt these chest are coded differently with how the loot spawns.

I looked in 5-10 (knew it wasn't going to be there) and no lead, got lucky and a box spawned with only my self around and I picked it and the lead was there. 1st picked box.

ectoplasmicninja

When I pick the lock on a safebox, find a lead, and loot only the lead, the next person checking the box sees the exact same loot I left behind, the same way regular chests work. If the content of the safebox remains the same, that seems to indicate that noone else but the first person to open the box is going to have the chance to see anything other than what I left there. The only instances where people are providing documentary evidence that they got a lead without picking the lock are these really niche split second occurrences where someone picks the lock but doesn't actually open the box, and someone snipes the box-opening and sees the lead.

If we add those two data points together it seems like the contents of the box are generated upon its first opening. Unless something really weird has been coded in regarding leads specifically, if you open the chest you've already locked the contents so you should loot all and let it reset.

Hopefully the devs get back to us soon with a definitive answer that we can apply to similarly sourced leads moving forward.

Pevey

This is what some of us have been trying to explain all along. Anyone who has spent time farming lockboxes/thieves troves/treasure chests in the game can (and has been trying to) explain how this works. People didn't want to hear it because of wishful thinking.

ZOS's silence has resulted in mass hysteria and witch hunts in Murkmire of people trying to explain the truth. Everyone peeking in the box after it has already been opened is an absolute waste of time.

Community resources that jumped on the bandwagon without evidence have contributed to this issue. We have amazing content creators in the community, and I am very grateful for their time. But in this particular instance, some have poured gas on the fire by suggesting mechanics work in a certain way (e.g., by stating to turn off autoloot) with zero actual proof. People then cite these guides as the authority. It is a lesson in journalistic integrity.

jaws343

Pevey wrote: »

This is what some of us have been trying to explain all along. Anyone who has spent time farming lockboxes/thieves troves/treasure chests in the game can (and has been trying to) explain how this works. People didn't want to hear it because of wishful thinking.

ZOS's silence has resulted in mass hysteria and witch hunts in Murkmire of people trying to explain the truth. Everyone peeking in the box after it has already been opened is an absolute waste of time.

Community resources that jumped on the bandwagon without evidence have contributed to this issue. We have amazing content creators in the community, and I am very grateful for their time. But in this particular instance, some have poured gas on the fire by suggesting mechanics work in a certain way (e.g., by stating to turn off autoloot) with zero actual proof. People then cite these guides as the authority. It is a lesson in journalistic integrity.

The disconnect is that this is exactly how resource nodes work. You open the node, but don't loot it. Another player opens the same node after you. Both players see the same loot.

However, both players have a chance to get their own lead from that same node if one drops from it. This is proven, as it was the exact method of lead farming people used, successfully, in shadowfen.

So, there is precedence for leads working exactly like this, hence an appropriate need for clarification.

Rogue_WolfESO

So a simple yes or no question is avoided by ZoS. "do you have to actually pick this box to get this lead, or can you collect on a secondary basis"?
It's baffling that this has been allowed to go on all week without clarification.

Jaraal

Rogue_WolfESO wrote: »

So a simple yes or no question is avoided by ZoS. "do you have to actually pick this box to get this lead, or can you collect on a secondary basis"?
It's baffling that this has been allowed to go on all week without clarification.

It's possible that no one there actually knows. The original coders from 2013 are probably long gone.

Avishag

SilverBride wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Leaving items in a safebox solely to keep it from closing so multiple players can try to get a rare lead from one box should not be allowed in my opinion.

Why? Who does it hurt to share?

In my opinion it is not sharing, but rather taking advantage of something that I seriously doubt was intended for personal gain.

But bugs become features all the time if they help the playerbase in video games. Why shouldn't they simply adjust things so it's easier to share rather than prevent sharing? Because that's the reason people turned off their auto-loot, was to share with others.

I think it's bordering on exploitation and I do not agree with it.

So cold rules come before empathy? sorry for asking but I just don't get the indignation.

Skjaldbjorn

I'm not sure why this is so complicated. When the box is picked, the loot table is spawned. Or perhaps when the chest itself spawns - one or the other. If a lead is contained within and looted, there won't be another. If the box is left with the lead still inside, entirely plausible the next person could loot it, but ONLY if it's left behind.

Once the box has been opened and no lead revealed, one won't suddenly appear later.

kargen27

Jaraal wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Cameryn wrote: »

I still don't understand why these developers haven't fixed this. Just reduce the spawn time of these safeboxes, even temporarily. It doesn't take testing or lengthy development time (and if it does, then that's a design flaw of the game.)

I mean, is that REALLY a more costly solution than all the bad blood you're creating with your player community? Honestly.

I'm guessing the spawn time is universal across all the zones so reducing spawn time would have an impact in other areas of the game.

Spawn times are not universal. Go into a delve and harvest materials, open treasure chests, and use fishing holes. You will find that everything respawns much faster than in large zones.

I said across all zones. So not delves. We are talking about chests so none of that other stuff matters towards this conversation especially so as you are talking about in delves. From zone to zone I am guessing the chests all use the same timer table to respond. Why wouldn't they?

WrathOfInnos

I have not done the Oakensoul leads, but I can confirm chests in overland and public dungeons (shared loot, not individually instanced) can give leads to subsequent looters, not just the lockpicker. I don't see why these lockboxes would behave differently.

People seem to be unaware that opening a container starts its respawn timer, it does not need to be emptied. Checking for leads without taking the other junk seems like the play here. I don't see any reason to leave autoloot on during this farm, the "treasure" is not worth potentially wasting other peoples' time.

Alinhbo_Tyaka

Jaraal wrote: »

Rogue_WolfESO wrote: »

So a simple yes or no question is avoided by ZoS. "do you have to actually pick this box to get this lead, or can you collect on a secondary basis"?
It's baffling that this has been allowed to go on all week without clarification.

It's possible that no one there actually knows. The original coders from 2013 are probably long gone.

The current coders should be able to look at the code and figure it out pretty quickly.

drzycki_ESO

I FINALLY got the lead after two plus days of mindlessly spamming interact. I hurt my hands trying to get a lead for a ring that would help me not hurt my hands. I was the picker.

Anela

darvaria

Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Rogue_WolfESO wrote: »

So a simple yes or no question is avoided by ZoS. "do you have to actually pick this box to get this lead, or can you collect on a secondary basis"?
It's baffling that this has been allowed to go on all week without clarification.

It's possible that no one there actually knows. The original coders from 2013 are probably long gone.

The current coders should be able to look at the code and figure it out pretty quickly.

^That. Just please give us an answer. It does seem the picker usually gets the lead.

Jaraal

kargen27 wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Cameryn wrote: »

I still don't understand why these developers haven't fixed this. Just reduce the spawn time of these safeboxes, even temporarily. It doesn't take testing or lengthy development time (and if it does, then that's a design flaw of the game.)

I mean, is that REALLY a more costly solution than all the bad blood you're creating with your player community? Honestly.

I'm guessing the spawn time is universal across all the zones so reducing spawn time would have an impact in other areas of the game.

Spawn times are not universal. Go into a delve and harvest materials, open treasure chests, and use fishing holes. You will find that everything respawns much faster than in large zones.

I said across all zones. So not delves. We are talking about chests so none of that other stuff matters towards this conversation especially so as you are talking about in delves. From zone to zone I am guessing the chests all use the same timer table to respond. Why wouldn't they?

Delves are not zones? What are they, then?

SeaGtGruff

ectoplasmicninja wrote: »

The only instances where people are providing documentary evidence that they got a lead without picking the lock are these really niche split second occurrences where someone picks the lock but doesn't actually open the box, and someone snipes the box-opening and sees the lead.

I don't think that's even possible, is it? If I pick the lock on a chest, the chest opens automatically and-- as far as I know-- no one else can use the chest because I'm already using it. The only exception that I know of would be if something interrupts me just after I finish picking the lock, causing my interaction with the chest to get cancelled.

evymyu233

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

ectoplasmicninja wrote: »

The only instances where people are providing documentary evidence that they got a lead without picking the lock are these really niche split second occurrences where someone picks the lock but doesn't actually open the box, and someone snipes the box-opening and sees the lead.

I don't think that's even possible, is it? If I pick the lock on a chest, the chest opens automatically and-- as far as I know-- no one else can use the chest because I'm already using it. The only exception that I know of would be if something interrupts me just after I finish picking the lock, causing my interaction with the chest to get cancelled.

guard

Holycannoli

It's the 14th and no update on their discussions?

I somehow got lucky last night and logged in next to a safebox with nobody around and got the lead. Must be RNG related to instancing. But it doesn't change the fact that this is a severe bottleneck.

ectoplasmicninja

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

I don't think that's even possible, is it? If I pick the lock on a chest, the chest opens automatically and-- as far as I know-- no one else can use the chest because I'm already using it. The only exception that I know of would be if something interrupts me just after I finish picking the lock, causing my interaction with the chest to get cancelled.

Yep, guard or other NPC attacking just as you complete the unlock. I got the lead a couple days ago on the second safebox I picked. I was in Murkmire for about 3 hours running around checking safebox spawns and killing WBs and such, and everyone in zone chat was saying that the drop rate was extremely high and you were almost sure to get it as long as you were the one that picked the lock. Getting to actually pick the lock was the hard part. People were announcing when they got the lead and all of them had been the picker. Anecdotal, but still.

This sort of mechanic for leads also facilitates a lot of trolling. People were dropping questionable meat sacks on the safeboxes to interfere with others' ability to interact with them, throwing lots of bright AOEs, opening a box and then just staying in the menu so it couldn't reset and noone else could interact with it, etc. Something needs to be changed about this going forward IMO.

Eclipse318

drzycki_ESO wrote: »

I FINALLY got the lead after two plus days of mindlessly spamming interact. I hurt my hands trying to get a lead for a ring that would help me not hurt my hands. I was the picker.

Anela

This has been my concern since day one on this. People who play in pain, such as myself, having to continue hurting ourselves to get this piece.

At the end of the day this is a disability issue more than anything -- not everyone is fast enough to be the first one to hit E (and yes lag does matter), not everyone can successfully do lockpicking, especially if it's intermediate difficulty or above, due to hand strength or arthritis or nerve damage or fine motor ability or severe anxiety or any number of very real reasons.

One of the first things I did was enable my main character to be able to break open locks because I loathe lockpicking so so so so so much, because it causes me actual physical pain like nothing else in the game does.

Jaraal

Holycannoli wrote: »

It's the 14th and no update on their discussions?

They said they were "looking into some changes to be discussed at a later date. We'll follow up once more information is available." So since we have no follow up yet, it's safe to assume they are still trying to figure out what to discuss at some point in the future.

KlauthWarthog

It might be the cynic in me, but... "at a later date" encompasses a rather broad spectrum of possibilities, from "later this week" to "next geologic age" and beyond. So, I am not really expecting any meaningful updates from the developers on this subject in the near future.

wolfie1.0.

At this point since it has been so long since we got a reply from ZOS and they have yet to actually answer the question...

I think it's safe to assume one of two conclusions, either they don't know or they don't want to tell us.

Both conclusions are concerning

FlopsyPrince

Requiring auto-loot to be turned off makes playing really poor.

Sorry if I mess it up for others, but I don't have time for that interruption. Not that I am trying for these leads on purpose now.

Pevey

They have a very hand-off approach to the game. They moderate the forums like mad, but the game not at all. It's Lord of the Flies level of hands off. They generally let/make players figure things out on their own. They don't comment on drop rates, cooldowns, etc. Mechanics are rarely discussed outside of official patch notes.

Renan

the saddest time I've ever spent in game. with 200 ping I'll only have the lead next year

Reaver999

Dear @ZOS Solution: Stop making some leads boring to get and don't have them drop from extremely limited and long spawning containers. Some people buy the new chapter for certain mythics, then find they can't even get the lead until the said item is nerfed. Just stop making the game suck so bad. ZOS knows making things drop from spawable nodes/containers etc just encourages people to camp and not even play the effing game. Make getting the leads a fun part of the game. Here is an idea, maybe make the lead drop from halfway through the main questline, or world boss dailies, or something that actually encourages playing the game and bringing back life into dead zones.

Jaraal

KlauthWarthog wrote: »

It might be the cynic in me, but... "at a later date" encompasses a rather broad spectrum of possibilities, from "later this week" to "next geologic age" and beyond. So, I am not really expecting any meaningful updates from the developers on this subject in the near future.

It's also possible that they are waiting for the new item crush to die down. It's logical that as the "gotta have it now" crowd gets lucky and gets the drop, that they will move on and the "really want it" and "sorta want it" folks will have more opportunities as time goes by.

Being silent this long when there are so many simple changes that they could make, but are choosing not to seems more like a wait and see approach rather than a I have no idea/can't agree on what to do scenario.

Mithgil

I can testify personally that I got the lead from a safebox when I was NOT the one to pick the lock. I was in a group and we were all doing our best just to open the safebox and see if the lead showed up. After we did our best to make sure everyone had a look, including those not in the group one of us would loot the safebox to despawn it.

Someone was using a Lootdrop addon and they were able to see that the lead showed for me. Not sure that made any difference in helping to ensure everyone had a chance to look.

So yeah, being in a group just for the sake of courtesy and control helps. And Autoloot functions will take away anyone else's chance to have a look.

It took a few people reminding others to turn off Autoloot and to allow others to have a look prior to looting it clean. For the most part everyone there was cooperating and it was great.

wolfie1.0.

Mithgil wrote: »

I can testify personally that I got the lead from a safebox when I was NOT the one to pick the lock. I was in a group and we were all doing our best just to open the safebox and see if the lead showed up. After we did our best to make sure everyone had a look, including those not in the group one of us would loot the safebox to despawn it.

Someone was using a Lootdrop addon and they were able to see that the lead showed for me. Not sure that made any difference in helping to ensure everyone had a chance to look.

So yeah, being in a group just for the sake of courtesy and control helps. And Autoloot functions will take away anyone else's chance to have a look.

It took a few people reminding others to turn off Autoloot and to allow others to have a look prior to looting it clean. For the most part everyone there was cooperating and it was great.

Thank you. Did the person grab a screenshot of that occurrence that can be posted here?

The more documented evidence we have the better.

But on a side note. Expecting this level of cooperation by zos among players is extreme.

If they wanted this type of cooperation just put the lead in a dungeon or trial

kargen27

Jaraal wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Cameryn wrote: »

I still don't understand why these developers haven't fixed this. Just reduce the spawn time of these safeboxes, even temporarily. It doesn't take testing or lengthy development time (and if it does, then that's a design flaw of the game.)

I mean, is that REALLY a more costly solution than all the bad blood you're creating with your player community? Honestly.

I'm guessing the spawn time is universal across all the zones so reducing spawn time would have an impact in other areas of the game.

Spawn times are not universal. Go into a delve and harvest materials, open treasure chests, and use fishing holes. You will find that everything respawns much faster than in large zones.

I said across all zones. So not delves. We are talking about chests so none of that other stuff matters towards this conversation especially so as you are talking about in delves. From zone to zone I am guessing the chests all use the same timer table to respond. Why wouldn't they?

Delves are not zones? What are they, then?

They are different. You know exactly what I am talking about but I'll clarify anyway. Overland zones I'm guessing all use the same timer configuration. Delves may or may not be on different timers.