ZOS: Answer this question! Can only the picker of the lock get the lead?

Ishtarknows

Stx wrote: »

People are saying that if you pick the lock, loot ONLY the lead, then exit, that other players can loot the box and have a chance to get the lead.

Personally, I am the type of person who trusts evidence, so the fact that I haven't seen a single video or picture showing a lead being obtained by a non-picker makes me think these claims are false.

I'd agree. The lead for the Aldmeri music box which comes from a safe box couldn't be shared in this way either.

Jaraal

Pyr0xyrecuprotite wrote: »

Just a reminder that there are a lot of game mechanics that ZOS made purposefully opaque, so that players feel that there is an element of chance - and maybe they got the reward for reasons completely different than why they think they did. I don't think it's correct to *EXPECT* ZOS to explain to the players exactly how something works; only if there is actually a bug or not (for any specific described behaviour).

Well, they're quick to explain the details to us when it benefits them, like telling us they have to change a glyph that was fine in the game for 8 years because it has to check a list of x number of enemy types to work. But when a little knowledge might ease some recently introduced toxic zone chat, they remain silent.

What is the benefit to either them or us to refuse to answer a question about how looting safeboxes works?

merevie

Have not played since last Sept. Saw the one bar ring and a few other things that livened the game up and thought, hey, I'll give it a go, be good to see old friends again..

Then I went to Murkmire.
People have been standing in the same spot spamming lockboxes for TWO DAYS.
Now they have created elaborate queues and rules about who can open and when. It's kinda obvious only the first person in gets it.

You guys were told this when, launch day?

Kisakee

Jaraal wrote: »

What is the benefit to either them or us to refuse to answer a question about how looting safeboxes works?

There is no benefit not telling anyone anything but the uproar and commotion they fear when they actually state that only the first person opening the box can get the lead as they know that there will be way too many selfish players ruining other peoples days. So they stay silent as things have managed in a way they can live with for now even if this means that lots of people are wasting their time.

Jaraal

merevie wrote: »

You guys were told this when, launch day?

This is a perfect example of what's wrong with the PTS. ZOS could have provided lead acquisition testing, by explaining how they wanted us to get them. Keeping the lead locations "secret" has put us in the current unpopular and dysfunctional situation. The easter egg hunt portion of discovering leads was fun for like what, 10 mins when the DLC dropped before someone (undoubtedly by accident) stumbled upon the method to get the loop lead? But if they had given players the heads up when the PTS first dropped this massive discussion would have taken place months ago and been resolved before High Isle went live.

Jaraal

Kisakee wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

What is the benefit to either them or us to refuse to answer a question about how looting safeboxes works?

There is no benefit not telling anyone anything but the uproar and commotion they fear when they actually state that only the first person opening the box can get the lead as they know that there will be way too many selfish players ruining other peoples days. So they stay silent as things have managed in a way they can live with for now even if this means that lots of people are wasting their time.

Conversely, if the selfish players realize that keeping the box open is NOT preventing anyone else from getting the lead, then maybe they will move on and troll elsewhere.

Knowledge (which ZOS is withholding) is power. But speculation and confusion (of which there is plenty) is only empowering the trolls and creating bad blood in zone chat.

Kisakee

Jaraal wrote: »

Conversely, if the selfish players realize that keeping the box open is NOT preventing anyone else from getting the lead

It is as no new box can spawn as long as the old one doesn't dissappear.

wolfie1.0.

@ZOS_Kevin are there any updates?

imno007b14_ESO

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin are there any updates?

Since he posted yesterday? Think you need to reread that. That did not sound like someone talking about a fix that's likely to be implemented in a day or two. Sounded to me like a fix that will likely come after most people who want the lead have already got it. In other words, as horrible as the experience is - and it is - most people who really want it will persevere to get it as soon as they can rather than wait for possibly weeks or months for the devs to get around to improving it.

Dietche

imno007b14_ESO wrote: »

That did not sound like someone talking about a fix that's likely to be implemented in a day or two. Sounded to me like a fix that will likely come after most people who want the lead have already got it.

I tend to agree. However, I'm holding out a teeny tiny glimmer of hope they put in a hotfix for mon/tues maintenance coming this week, since this is such a "hot topic".

I mean, really, several solutions are super simple for them to implement, such as:
--adjust the respawn timer to, say, 30 seconds, which is a single variable change in the database
--add in other spawn locations, such as pickpocketing & world bosses, for that area & lead
--put in 20 copies of the lead per box per spawn. Although I admit I'm not sure that is do-able with this system. If it was an "actual item" it would be, but, well, leads are wierd
--let the lead come from any strongbox in any area, which is also a minor change to the loot table database, since I'm quite sure they have an "everywhere" tag/macro/subroutine for that data value field

So, I'm holding out hope we see progress on this come maintenance day. But I'm not holding my breath either.

Insignia91

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin are there any updates?

They can't even give an update on if it's only the picker that gets it or not.
All research and proof points to it's only the picker but would be nice to have confirmation.
Now that it's the weekend the definitely are not responding.

wolfie1.0.

imno007b14_ESO wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin are there any updates?

Since he posted yesterday? Think you need to reread that. That did not sound like someone talking about a fix that's likely to be implemented in a day or two. Sounded to me like a fix that will likely come after most people who want the lead have already got it. In other words, as horrible as the experience is - and it is - most people who really want it will persevere to get it as soon as they can rather than wait for possibly weeks or months for the devs to get around to improving it.

Oh I know. But you see asking for updates keeps the issue top of mind. Besides they havn't exactly answered the original question.

wolfie1.0.

Dietche wrote: »

imno007b14_ESO wrote: »

That did not sound like someone talking about a fix that's likely to be implemented in a day or two. Sounded to me like a fix that will likely come after most people who want the lead have already got it.

I tend to agree. However, I'm holding out a teeny tiny glimmer of hope they put in a hotfix for mon/tues maintenance coming this week, since this is such a "hot topic".

I mean, really, several solutions are super simple for them to implement, such as:
--adjust the respawn timer to, say, 30 seconds, which is a single variable change in the database
--add in other spawn locations, such as pickpocketing & world bosses, for that area & lead
--put in 20 copies of the lead per box per spawn. Although I admit I'm not sure that is do-able with this system. If it was an "actual item" it would be, but, well, leads are wierd
--let the lead come from any strongbox in any area, which is also a minor change to the loot table database, since I'm quite sure they have an "everywhere" tag/macro/subroutine for that data value field

So, I'm holding out hope we see progress on this come maintenance day. But I'm not holding my breath either.

Maintenance for regular patches won't happen until week of June 20th. Have to remember that it's at least a 2 week cycle for anything other than hot fixes. And that is the soonest.

Till then keep on posting.

imno007b14_ESO

Insignia91 wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin are there any updates?

They can't even give an update on if it's only the picker that gets it or not.
All research and proof points to it's only the picker but would be nice to have confirmation.
Now that it's the weekend the definitely are not responding.

Unless I hear differently from an official source, I'm going to assume that once the picker takes everything from the safebox, there's nothing left in it, and it does not instantly respawn further leads for other players. I suppose they could work like chests in dungeons/trials, but that would imply you'd have to be grouped; and since I've never been grouped while opening them, I can't confirm or deny it.

wolfie1.0.

Insignia91 wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin are there any updates?

They can't even give an update on if it's only the picker that gets it or not.
All research and proof points to it's only the picker but would be nice to have confirmation.
Now that it's the weekend the definitely are not responding.

I realize that we are likely to not get a response today. Nor I expect a fix or change to roll out in the near future. What I would like is a statement on exactly how leads like this work. This is not the first time that there has been extensive discourse on the subject and untold amounts of drama. I just want some clarity and clarification.
Something that can be referenced here on the forums or in game about it.

So i ask, how leads acquired from public nodes, chests, safeboxes, thieves tropes, psijic portals, etc work. Is it the first person to access that only gets the lead or if it's left unlocked except the lead do others also get a chance at one?

@ZOS_Kevin I just want an answer to the question above. Then I can wait for whatever fixes the dev team wants to make.

Jaraal

Kisakee wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Conversely, if the selfish players realize that keeping the box open is NOT preventing anyone else from getting the lead

It is as no new box can spawn as long as the old one doesn't dissappear.

Anecdotal evidence shows that a certain percentage of boxes/troves/chests/nodes will be spawned at any given time. The number is not 100%. Meaning, if there are 20 possible safebox spawn locations in a zone, they will never all be up at one time. The exact percentage, and whether it varies, is unknown. It has also been player documented that once a shared container is opened, it triggers a decay timer and will disappear after a certain interval of time, if the contents are not completely looted immediately. Holding the box open will NOT cause the container to stay materialized beyond it's set timer. Opening the container causes an unspawned node/chest/etc of a similar type to spawn elsewhere in the zone.

Staying on a chest or leaving partial contents in it does not delay the spawning of it's replacement elsewhere in the zone! And this is exactly why Kevin needs to state the facts, so that rumor is not dividing the player base.

Arunei

Let's just hope that whatever they choose to do, they won't make mistakes like this in the future. They KNEW this sort of approach doesn't work after the chaos in Shadowfen. Why they thought it would work with an even smaller number of 'nodes' baffles me to no end. And now they're having to discuss what to do and what to change, which they wouldn't have to be doing if they'd just not made this exact same mistake again.

Alinhbo_Tyaka

Arunei wrote: »

Let's just hope that whatever they choose to do, they won't make mistakes like this in the future. They KNEW this sort of approach doesn't work after the chaos in Shadowfen. Why they thought it would work with an even smaller number of 'nodes' baffles me to no end. And now they're having to discuss what to do and what to change, which they wouldn't have to be doing if they'd just not made this exact same mistake again.

It wasn't just Shadowfen and mythic items where they've made this type of mistake. I recall a quests form Greymoor (maybe) where players were required to read a note as a quest target item. The thing is once the item was picked up other players had to wait for it to respawn then play who can click the fastest. ZOS eventually fixed it but they seem to repetitively ignore or not think about large numbers of players being at the same point in the game at the same time and set things up like ESO is a single player game. It is like there is no institutional memory or player overlap is downplayed to the point it does not become a consideration in design. I don't know the underlying cause but as often as it occurs management really needs to look at why they continue to make the same mistakes time and again then make some changes to their processes.

RevJJ

Those who think this was not done intentionally and who think that lessons will be learned from this…

Arunei

Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

Let's just hope that whatever they choose to do, they won't make mistakes like this in the future. They KNEW this sort of approach doesn't work after the chaos in Shadowfen. Why they thought it would work with an even smaller number of 'nodes' baffles me to no end. And now they're having to discuss what to do and what to change, which they wouldn't have to be doing if they'd just not made this exact same mistake again.

It wasn't just Shadowfen and mythic items where they've made this type of mistake. I recall a quests form Greymoor (maybe) where players were required to read a note as a quest target item. The thing is once the item was picked up other players had to wait for it to respawn then play who can click the fastest. ZOS eventually fixed it but they seem to repetitively ignore or not think about large numbers of players being at the same point in the game at the same time and set things up like ESO is a single player game. It is like there is no institutional memory or player overlap is downplayed to the point it does not become a consideration in design. I don't know the underlying cause but as often as it occurs management really needs to look at why they continue to make the same mistakes time and again then make some changes to their processes.

Oh yeah, there are multiple cases of quest items not being instanced. Wrothgar is bad about that. You'd think they would stop doing that, since plenty of other quests in the game have their items instanced. There's nothing like dashing for X item or Y ingredient to try and beat a dozen other people doing the same thing.

SeaUnicorn

Leads from safeboxes, fishing nodes, material nodes, rare nodes and other limited availability mechanics were a thing ever since antiquities were released and there was overwhelming feedback that farming leads like this with a low drop chance where you had to fish 500 nodes before getting lead or open 20-30 safeboxes to get it is not fun. End game raiders and PVPers have been submitting this feedback for 2 years now, yet ZOS proceeded with adding a high demand leads to such mechanics over and over. They knew what would happen if you add lead for a mythic widely popular among end game PVE, PVP, and casual players - there will be HUGE demand and very little supply, yet they proceeded with it. It is definitely not lack of testing and was a conscious decision, because such mechanics of lead drops were tested with thrassian, harpooners, death dealers fete and etc in previous patches. Massive demand, lack of supply, days of camping the node of interest, competition, toxicity around stealing nodes, all of it happened before.

yoyo420232

I guess I’m the lucky one when high isle dropped I started farming my leads for the mythics as soon as I heard about the safe box I went in search for it and quickly realized it was gonna be a head beating against the wall of a time so I went and completed the sea serpents coil and the other 4 oakensoul leads today like an hour ago I went to murkmire in the northern area there was a group of 4 at the box I bonded my interact to mouse scroll and luckily I got the pick first got it first box I picked so if your struggling for the lead try what I did it worked for me and I hope it works for you aswell

Jaraal

Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

Let's just hope that whatever they choose to do, they won't make mistakes like this in the future. They KNEW this sort of approach doesn't work after the chaos in Shadowfen. Why they thought it would work with an even smaller number of 'nodes' baffles me to no end. And now they're having to discuss what to do and what to change, which they wouldn't have to be doing if they'd just not made this exact same mistake again.

It wasn't just Shadowfen and mythic items where they've made this type of mistake. I recall a quests form Greymoor (maybe) where players were required to read a note as a quest target item. The thing is once the item was picked up other players had to wait for it to respawn then play who can click the fastest. ZOS eventually fixed it but they seem to repetitively ignore or not think about large numbers of players being at the same point in the game at the same time and set things up like ESO is a single player game. It is like there is no institutional memory or player overlap is downplayed to the point it does not become a consideration in design. I don't know the underlying cause but as often as it occurs management really needs to look at why they continue to make the same mistakes time and again then make some changes to their processes.

Perhaps they should make the lead drop from deconstructing a Burning Spellweave inferno staff!

Cameryn

I still don't understand why these developers haven't fixed this. Just reduce the spawn time of these safeboxes, even temporarily. It doesn't take testing or lengthy development time (and if it does, then that's a design flaw of the game.)

I mean, is that REALLY a more costly solution than all the bad blood you're creating with your player community? Honestly.

ChunkyCat

The team that designed, then implemented, this lead… they’re the real trolls.

Just imagine how that conversation went:

“We’re going to totally load up this one item. Everyone is going to want it!”

“Great idea! But wait… make sure only ten people can get it tho. That way thousands of people will only be able to stare at the lucky ones in a jealous rage.”

“Perfect. Make it happen.”

Lmaoooo.

kindnuguz

Personally I wish there was more action \ reaction from the other side. ( meaning hotfix asap )
As someone stated and I did in another thread , 30 sec timer, or change to treasure chest or something simple.

I really do appreciate Kevin at least trying to keep us in the loop. ( honestly thank you )

But sadly as more time goes by, more players get it, less of a issue it is and rinse and repeat.

I remember the ring of pale order and the note on the table.
( Pale Order's Golden Band - lead )
Nov 2nd 2020 released
Nov 16th 2020
Fixed an issue where the sourcing of the Lead for the Pale Order’s Golden Band could cause you to have to wait longer than intended; this time factor has been reduced by multiple orders of magnitude.

I can't see the patch notes stating - "you may only acquire leads once and may no longer re-acquire them"
But I do know this was a thing as I went back to this lead and sat there and players came up and grabbed it and I didn't see it.
I waited and logged out and back in and I could see it but couldn't grab it. ( but of course I already had 2 or 3 rings at this point lol )

Also the newer leads may not have this in place as I got a lead for an item I already have last night.
Mindcleaver Loop

Dalsinthus

The could encourage cooperation on these leads, even if it is a grind. For example putting the lead in a four person dungeon, battlegrounds, or even a trial with a low drop chance. That would encourage team work and returning to older content. But instead they set it up in a way that pits players against each other. And they selected a mindless task that doesn’t involve any engaging game play. It’s incredibly frustrating.

This keeps happening so it’s either ignorance on the dev team that designs antiquities or actual intentional design.

Eiregirl

Dalsinthus wrote: »

The could encourage cooperation on these leads, even if it is a grind. For example putting the lead in a four person dungeon, battlegrounds, or even a trial with a low drop chance. That would encourage team work and returning to older content. But instead they set it up in a way that pits players against each other. And they selected a mindless task that doesn’t involve any engaging game play. It’s incredibly frustrating.

This keeps happening so it’s either ignorance on the dev team that designs antiquities or actual intentional design.

I would rather think of it as an oversight of the devs in anticipating the actions of the players and how they would react to this situation.

If it is an intentional design by the devs it is a very bad design. One thing MMOs should not do is intentionally create frustration in the player base. Continually doing so will cause people to quit the game.

For an instance such as this, it would be fine to have a quest line that is a week-long in order to get this lead. Make it so that the player can only complete one quest a day or have an item that drops off a random zone mob with a low drop rate that increases each day.

There are dozens of ways they could have done this where players are not all huddled around a very few safeboxes trying to get a single lead.

Melivar

Personal experience was I picked 5 locks myself on the 3rd got the purple zone lead and on the 5th was lucky enough to get the lead. I had auto loot turned off by the way so that at least has no impact on things.

Over the previous days I looted 20-30 already picked chests and didn't see a lead of either color.

Now that doesn't mean you can't get it that way at least until ZOS confirms one way or another just what I saw over about 3 hours of attempting to get the lead.

It harms no-one but perhaps your gold reserves to give people a chance but you do you as it is your right to take all the spoils if you want to or leave a chance for others.

spartaxoxo

SilverBride wrote: »

Leaving items in a safebox solely to keep it from closing so multiple players can try to get a rare lead from one box should not be allowed in my opinion.

Why? Who does it hurt to share?