ZOS: Answer this question! Can only the picker of the lock get the lead?

Mithgil

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

Mithgil wrote: »

I can testify personally that I got the lead from a safebox when I was NOT the one to pick the lock. I was in a group and we were all doing our best just to open the safebox and see if the lead showed up. After we did our best to make sure everyone had a look, including those not in the group one of us would loot the safebox to despawn it.

Someone was using a Lootdrop addon and they were able to see that the lead showed for me. Not sure that made any difference in helping to ensure everyone had a chance to look.

So yeah, being in a group just for the sake of courtesy and control helps. And Autoloot functions will take away anyone else's chance to have a look.

It took a few people reminding others to turn off Autoloot and to allow others to have a look prior to looting it clean. For the most part everyone there was cooperating and it was great.

Thank you. Did the person grab a screenshot of that occurrence that can be posted here?

The more documented evidence we have the better.

But on a side note. Expecting this level of cooperation by zos among players is extreme.

If they wanted this type of cooperation just put the lead in a dungeon or trial

So I don't have a screenshot of the moment this happened for me. I suppose I could grab a screenshot with my DisplayLeads addon window open and it will show that I have dug this particular lead, proving only that I got the lead.

This occurred a few nights back. There wasn't one safebox I was even able to start to pick. Once this guy explained and insisted that they'd seen others get the lead without being the one to pick the lock I decided to give it a try with them.

Pevey

I have LootLog and LootDrop installed. I'm not sure which one it is that shows me group members' loot.

On the first day, when I was farming the lead and people were insisting on grouping and letting everyone else open the chest or you would be called out and called names, it was easier just to go with the flow. So I did. And no one I saw open the chest who was not the first opener ever got the lead. I saw several people get the lead, and they were all the first opener.

This is not a ton of data. And statistics can never prove a theory, only show the the opposite is unlikely. Until I see a video evidence, I believe it is very unlikely a person who is not the first opener can get the lead.

It's possible that you got the lead after the person who picked the lock was interrupted in some way. Making you the first opener.

SilverBride

If someone unlocks a chest and it contains 5 lockpicks, and 3 magicka potions, and a piece of blue quality armor, and a white quality bow and the player only takes the piece of blue quality armor and leaves the rest in the chest then the next person opening the chest will only find 5 lockpicks, and 3 magicka potions, and a white quality bow. The piece of blue quality armor won't regenerate just because someone different came along and opened the already unlocked chest.

Why would safeboxes be any different?

jaws343

SilverBride wrote: »

If someone unlocks a chest and it contains 5 lockpicks, and 3 magicka potions, and a piece of blue quality armor, and a white quality bow and the player only takes the piece of blue quality armor and leaves the rest in the chest then the next person opening the chest will only find 5 lockpicks, and 3 magicka potions, and a white quality bow. The piece of blue quality armor won't regenerate just because someone different came along and opened the already unlocked chest.

Why would safeboxes be any different?

But, as has literally been explained in this thread, if a lead drops from that same chest or resource node, the lead has a chance to generate for each player who looks in the chest or resource node.

You can go into shadowfen right now, turn off auto loot, and have 10 people interact with the same resource node, and each of those 10 people have an individual chance to drop a mythic lead. And all 10 of those player could possibly get that lead, or only 1, or 5, from the same node instance. Players have already accounted for chests being already unlocked in open world and them looking inside and having a lead drop. Leads are player instanced in a ton of cases, why safeboxes would be any different is the confusion.

SilverBride

jaws343 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

If someone unlocks a chest and it contains 5 lockpicks, and 3 magicka potions, and a piece of blue quality armor, and a white quality bow and the player only takes the piece of blue quality armor and leaves the rest in the chest then the next person opening the chest will only find 5 lockpicks, and 3 magicka potions, and a white quality bow. The piece of blue quality armor won't regenerate just because someone different came along and opened the already unlocked chest.

Why would safeboxes be any different?

But, as has literally been explained in this thread, if a lead drops from that same chest or resource node, the lead has a chance to generate for each player who looks in the chest or resource node.

You can go into shadowfen right now, turn off auto loot, and have 10 people interact with the same resource node, and each of those 10 people have an individual chance to drop a mythic lead. And all 10 of those player could possibly get that lead, or only 1, or 5, from the same node instance. Players have already accounted for chests being already unlocked in open world and them looking inside and having a lead drop. Leads are player instanced in a ton of cases, why safeboxes would be any different is the confusion.

This has never been proven, and there is evidence in this thread that it doesn't work that way. If this was really a sure thing there would be no need for this thread.

Seminolegirl1992

I can confirm that it works with multiple people opening it. I saw the original unlocker did not get it, but someone else who checked did get it. This way helps people, because safe boxes take too long to spawn and there's not nearly enough in Murkmire. To those saying it's not intended, there are a large number of people trying to get the lead and this helps reduce toxicity in those areas because people are sharing safeboxes and taking turns, rather than everyone rushing and spamming E to unlock a box before someone else. This reduces that, and people work together instead.

jaws343

SilverBride wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

If someone unlocks a chest and it contains 5 lockpicks, and 3 magicka potions, and a piece of blue quality armor, and a white quality bow and the player only takes the piece of blue quality armor and leaves the rest in the chest then the next person opening the chest will only find 5 lockpicks, and 3 magicka potions, and a white quality bow. The piece of blue quality armor won't regenerate just because someone different came along and opened the already unlocked chest.

Why would safeboxes be any different?

But, as has literally been explained in this thread, if a lead drops from that same chest or resource node, the lead has a chance to generate for each player who looks in the chest or resource node.

You can go into shadowfen right now, turn off auto loot, and have 10 people interact with the same resource node, and each of those 10 people have an individual chance to drop a mythic lead. And all 10 of those player could possibly get that lead, or only 1, or 5, from the same node instance. Players have already accounted for chests being already unlocked in open world and them looking inside and having a lead drop. Leads are player instanced in a ton of cases, why safeboxes would be any different is the confusion.

This has never been proven, and there is evidence in this thread that it doesn't work that way. If this was really a sure thing there would be no need for this thread.

People sat in shadowfen for weeks when kilt launched and did this successfully. That is why this thread exists, because leads have dropped from containers (resource nodes) for multiple people, with auto loot turned off. I literally got my own kilt lead from a partially looted water node. It is a thing, and it does appear that safeboxes may work differently, and asking for clarification isn't some crazy, out of the blue, thing here. This is the first time that safeboxes have been mass farmed for leads, and then suddenly, they don't seem to work the same as other, similar lead sources.

I truly don't get the need for derision here. All people are asking for is clarification from the devs on this, when things don't appear to be working as they have in other cases. Not that crazy.

spartaxoxo

SilverBride wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

If someone unlocks a chest and it contains 5 lockpicks, and 3 magicka potions, and a piece of blue quality armor, and a white quality bow and the player only takes the piece of blue quality armor and leaves the rest in the chest then the next person opening the chest will only find 5 lockpicks, and 3 magicka potions, and a white quality bow. The piece of blue quality armor won't regenerate just because someone different came along and opened the already unlocked chest.

Why would safeboxes be any different?

But, as has literally been explained in this thread, if a lead drops from that same chest or resource node, the lead has a chance to generate for each player who looks in the chest or resource node.

You can go into shadowfen right now, turn off auto loot, and have 10 people interact with the same resource node, and each of those 10 people have an individual chance to drop a mythic lead. And all 10 of those player could possibly get that lead, or only 1, or 5, from the same node instance. Players have already accounted for chests being already unlocked in open world and them looking inside and having a lead drop. Leads are player instanced in a ton of cases, why safeboxes would be any different is the confusion.

This has never been proven, and there is evidence in this thread that it doesn't work that way. If this was really a sure thing there would be no need for this thread.

Well yeah, because we'd know the answer. The question only exists because it's very up-in-the air. I'd have expected something more solid than the evidence we have to surfaced by now. But there is some small evidence that it works that way. And some it doesn't.

Personally to me it seems like it only works that way before the OG lockpicker gets the loot table presented to them. Which would likely be unintentional and a bug that needed to be fixed. It's probably supposed to work the way chest and other resource nodes already do, which allow for leads to be shared but not the other loot. I expect that's why the devs have to discuss it and how they intend to resolve the issues that this lead presents, rather than just giving a straight and easy answer instantly.

spartaxoxo

jaws343 wrote: »

This is the first time that safeboxes have been mass farmed for leads, and then suddenly, they don't seem to work the same as other, similar lead sources.

My guess is that is because you can be interrupted from looking in them by guards due to them being flagged as stolen. So there's a brief duration when leads are generated but the other loot hasn't been loaded in yet and flagged as yours yet, where you can be interrupted by a guard or a fast 2nd player can get the lead. This is probably also when the loot is flagged as stolen. Afterwards, the loot report generates and is fixed to where anyone who comes along will see fixed loot. Since the lead isn't generated during this process, no new lead would generate.

That's what it seems like to me based off what other playres have posted.

SilverBride

jaws343 wrote: »

People sat in shadowfen for weeks when kilt launched and did this successfully.

What I read about Shadowfen and the kilt lead is that players would find a node and stand on it, then harvest it every time it popped back up. I didn't hear that players were forming groups and taking turns checking the node.

James-Wayne

ZOS likes to give themselves more work with these updates hey, why not just let people get the lead easily, remove all the frustrations of players, reduce the legwork community managers need to do on the forums and let the dev teams work on future content... why create chaos for no gain?!?

It makes zero business sense to be doing highly requested leads this way.

Soraka

Eclipse318 wrote: »

drzycki_ESO wrote: »

I FINALLY got the lead after two plus days of mindlessly spamming interact. I hurt my hands trying to get a lead for a ring that would help me not hurt my hands. I was the picker.

Anela

This has been my concern since day one on this. People who play in pain, such as myself, having to continue hurting ourselves to get this piece.

At the end of the day this is a disability issue more than anything -- not everyone is fast enough to be the first one to hit E (and yes lag does matter), not everyone can successfully do lockpicking, especially if it's intermediate difficulty or above, due to hand strength or arthritis or nerve damage or fine motor ability or severe anxiety or any number of very real reasons.

One of the first things I did was enable my main character to be able to break open locks because I loathe lockpicking so so so so so much, because it causes me actual physical pain like nothing else in the game does.

I personally have never gone out of my way for a lead so I can't speak to the frustration, other than it sounds frustrating.
But, if what I've read is true and this mythic was made to help people with disabilities then this current method seems very tone deaf and these types of replies really need to be highlighted as a reason for a quicker resolution to this issue. Just my two cents.

Mithgil

Pevey wrote: »

I have LootLog and LootDrop installed. I'm not sure which one it is that shows me group members' loot.

On the first day, when I was farming the lead and people were insisting on grouping and letting everyone else open the chest or you would be called out and called names, it was easier just to go with the flow. So I did. And no one I saw open the chest who was not the first opener ever got the lead. I saw several people get the lead, and they were all the first opener.

This is not a ton of data. And statistics can never prove a theory, only show the the opposite is unlikely. Until I see a video evidence, I believe it is very unlikely a person who is not the first opener can get the lead.

It's possible that you got the lead after the person who picked the lock was interrupted in some way. Making you the first opener.

I definitely was not the first opener. I wasn't even on the safebox when the first person picked the lock and opened it. And there were several, at least four or five who were able to interact and look into the safebox in advance of me. I could see the player animations of them slightly bending, just as would occur for me when I was able to (finally) interact with the safebox. And all I did was gently spam the E key and moving slightly for the server to "recognize" that I could (finally) interact. I saw the message several times in the top right of my screen telling me that "Someone else is using that".

I was in a group and we coordinated letting each other know which box was being picked, etc. And yes there were those in the vicinity that had autoloot on and/or were ignoring the info not to clean-out the safebox. Yes, some took only the coins. If there was something still in the safebox then others can look and see if they get the lead. Again, I did not pick the lock, and I was several people "behind" before I could interact with the safebox.

I didn't have the forethought to think of videoing all this. I've never actually videoed game-play.

I'm telling you (all) by my first-hand experience it does work that all you need do is look into an opened safebox and you do have a chance to get the lead. You don't have to be first, and you don't have to pick the lock.

I have nothing to gain by lying about my in-game experience with this.

Jaraal

@ZOS_Kevin if you won’t answer the original question, can you at least tell us why you won’t answer the original question?

wolfie1.0.

Jaraal wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin if you won’t answer the original question, can you at least tell us why you won’t answer the original question?

I have just concluded that no on really knows the answer to the question and the devs are happily typing away at the patch that will make the lead drop from more sources and it will be released in Monday's patch notes...

N00BxV1

This isn't the first or only mythic that has a lead in a safebox. Just off the top of my head...

- Dov-rha Sabatons
- Oakensoul
- Pearls of Ehlnofey
- Spaulder of Ruin

So why is this such an uproar now and why are people so adamant about not clearing the safebox? Seems obvious that whoever opens the safebox first has the chance at the lead...

Well if I'm searching for a lead and get a chance to open a safebox then I'm clearing it, especially after years of everyone yelling to clear the chests when you loot them....

Hawkeye

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

@TPishek This isn't noise. We have been talking to the dev team daily on this issue. There is nothing to add right now because the team is working on a solution based on player feedback. The work does not happen overnight and we want to make sure we are keeping everyone in the loop as we understand this is an issue for the community. This will be a longer process.

This is what you call double talk. When they do not want to answer the actual question? They dance around it. The original question was never addressed. You danced around it by saying you are looking into it. How does that answer the question of who gets credit? It doesn't!

Jaraal

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin if you won’t answer the original question, can you at least tell us why you won’t answer the original question?

I have just concluded that no on really knows the answer to the question and the devs are happily typing away at the patch that will make the lead drop from more sources and it will be released in Monday's patch notes...

It would certainly be more helpful if they just said “No, we don’t want to answer that,” rather than continuing to allow players to argue about who is telling the truth and who is not.

I’m beginning to think you are correct about them not actually knowing. You’d think it wouldn’t be difficult to look at some numbers in the code and say yes or no only the opener can get the lead. But instead we are deflected with a statement about future discussions about a different subject.

jaws343

N00BxV1 wrote: »

This isn't the first or only mythic that has a lead in a safebox. Just off the top of my head...

- Dov-rha Sabatons
- Oakensoul
- Pearls of Ehlnofey
- Spaulder of Ruin

So why is this such an uproar now and why are people so adamant about not clearing the safebox? Seems obvious that whoever opens the safebox first has the chance at the lead...

Well if I'm searching for a lead and get a chance to open a safebox then I'm clearing it, especially after years of everyone yelling to clear the chests when you loot them....

Well, two of those are this patch.

And the two that aren't are in far larger zones (more lockbox spawns) and less sought after at release. So the demand for chest real estate for those two leads was much lower than the oakensoul lead, so far less (if any) people were competing over the chest spawns to even have the need to raise the question.

Ashtaris

It wouldn't be so bad if they decreased the spawn rate for the lockboxes, or if not guarantee a 100% drop rate, at least 50/50. But NOOOOOO, they have to make everyone as miserable as possible going after this stupid lead. The most poorly designed lead to acquire I've seen in the game so far.

oldbobdude

There are a lot of “someone else” got the lead without picking. How about is there anybody watching this thread that got the lead without picking the lock? Personally I mean. Not my friend or I heard.

Mithgil

oldbobdude wrote: »

There are a lot of “someone else” got the lead without picking. How about is there anybody watching this thread that got the lead without picking the lock? Personally I mean. Not my friend or I heard.

Me.

See my post above #194 and previous #179 and #182.

Hotdog_23

Oh my god ZOS, could you not yet be bothered to answer a basis question from your community in an over weeks’ time about something you just introduced.

Surely you know this is a hot button issue and leading to negative and toxic behavior by some people that you could at least help by answering a simple question but instead deflecting only and then wall of silence.

So much for better communication and transparency. What a failure on your part. Even if you change something Monday to help fix this issue you could have at least answered one simple question in the meantime.

Must say sorry to my PC brothers and sisters who have had to deal with this going on for 2 weeks. May the gods have mercy on me and the console community next week.


Stay safe and have a great day and even better weekend

SeaGtGruff

SilverBride wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

People sat in shadowfen for weeks when kilt launched and did this successfully.

What I read about Shadowfen and the kilt lead is that players would find a node and stand on it, then harvest it every time it popped back up. I didn't hear that players were forming groups and taking turns checking the node.

That was how it started out in Shadowfen-- everyone just looting the nodes as soon as they spawned-- but then there was a concerted effort by players to convince everyone not to loot the nodes, but just look at them and move on if they didn't get the lead. I spent a bit of time parked by a node and would check it but then stand there while other players came by and looked. Some of them would leave it behind, others would go ahead and loot it. If left alone, it would eventually despawn by itself and then respawn a short while later. There were people who swore they got the lead by checking nodes which had already been looked at by other players.

The same sort of thing went on during an event which included the Clockwork City zone, where people were telling everyone not to loot all of the resource nodes but just look at them to see if an event coffer was there, then leave the node unlooted for others to check. That would also apply to any event where event coffers could drop from resource nodes, but the Clockwork City event was the first one where I remember people urging everyone to turn their auto-loot off.

Jaraal

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

So much for better communication and transparency. What a failure on your part. Even if you change something Monday to help fix this issue you could have at least answered one simple question in the meantime.

Seminolegirl1992

N00BxV1 wrote: »

This isn't the first or only mythic that has a lead in a safebox. Just off the top of my head...

- Dov-rha Sabatons
- Oakensoul
- Pearls of Ehlnofey
- Spaulder of Ruin

So why is this such an uproar now and why are people so adamant about not clearing the safebox? Seems obvious that whoever opens the safebox first has the chance at the lead...

Well if I'm searching for a lead and get a chance to open a safebox then I'm clearing it, especially after years of everyone yelling to clear the chests when you loot them....

Because there aren't very many in Murkmire

Iselin

I finally grit my teeth and went to Murkmire yesterday to try to get that last lead I needed.

On PC NA there are still many, many players there trying to get it. I joined a raid group in Lilmoth and I was the 2-12th looter of several safeboxes with no luck. I was the lockpicker for 2 of them and I got the lead on my 2nd one.

When I picked that one there was no physical representation of the lead as a lootable item in the box so I thought it was also a dud. I didn't loot anything from it, closed it and was about to call out to the rest of the raid where this box was when I got the system message that I had the lead.

(EDIT: I did call it out to the raid and many came after me but no one else got it from that box.)

So for me anyway:

• no luck looting without being the picker
• no lead in the box itself that I could see
• Got it in 2 picking attempts

Good luck everyone!

darvaria

Well it seems something has been done! The lead is now available in Thieves Troves. AND someone said the drop rate had doubled. I can't find the official post in patch updates, but I hope this is true.

I've had the lead since day 2 but just seeing all those miserable ppl in Murkmire was not good for the community. Thanks if this is true.

Darv

Iselin

darvaria wrote: »

Well it seems something has been done! The lead is now available in Thieves Troves. AND someone said the drop rate had doubled. I can't find the official post in patch updates, but I hope this is true.

I've had the lead since day 2 but just seeing all those miserable ppl in Murkmire was not good for the community. Thanks if this is true.

Darv

"Antiquities

• Doubled the drop rate for many Antiquity Leads found in safeboxes, including the Petrified Oaken Loop.
• Introduced another source for the Petrified Oaken Loop Lead for you to discover."

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/608566/pc-mac-patch-notes-v8-0-6