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My thoughts on the recent outrage about ESO's monetization practices

Firstmep
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Hello everyone!

Recently i have seen a growing trend amount certain content creator(mainly on YouTube, not sure if it's also prevalent on Twitch), where people make exposé videos about the game monetization practices, and use answers from Rich Lambert's personal stream as a way to rail against the company.

I would like to state right now, to take everything I'm about to write here with a grain of salt. I am long time ESO player, and so I can't 100% accurately put myself in the shoes of new ESO players, and most of what I am about to write is my OPINION.
That being said, I constantly try out new games, especially rpgs and mmos, so I have a pretty good idea about the new player mindset in general.

With that being said I wanted to discuss a few points that have been brought against the crown store and the overall monetization practices of the game.

1. Certain "Pay for convenience" items are too expensive and predatory towards newer players.

a: One of the main concerns seems to be that things like respec scrolls, soul gems and other convenience items are sold at too high a premium, and essentially pray on the lack of information about the game's systems new players may have.
One of the points Rich made on his stream is him showing off how the respective respec shrine locations are available from the help menu after a quick search. I do think this was kind of an ill advised answer, since most people typically look for outside sources for game related information, whether it's friends, guildmates, websites, videos etc. Most people are pretty unlikely to rummage through Help menu for answers on how to respec.
Sadly the contra point to this in one of the YouTube exposé videos was to show off how hard it is to find this information inside the console help menu, since it doesn't actually have a search function.
However just as Rich's answer was ill advised, this video also completely fails to acknowledge the fact that most people wouldn't even be looking at the help menu for this information anyway, so the lack of accessibility on this topic is kinda moot anyway. Also the console help menu not having a search bar is likely an oversight due to consoles not typically coming with a keyboard, whilst PCs do. Still its a valid point so any dev reading please do add a searchbar for the console help menu kthx.

b: Like i already pointed out, most people will usually get there information from sources other than the ingame help menu, but i want to take this a step further.
I have been playing video games, mostly rpgs for over 20 year. I can count on one hand the amount of games, where the only way to respec a character was by spending real money in a cash shop.
This idea that new players coming in somehow believe that the only way to respec or obtain items like soul gems is through real money from the Crown Store, just seems insane to me.
I know there are eastern games out there, that actually do this, but most western developed games don't, and even eastern games adopted in the west usually do away with some of the most blatant P2W practices(or they go bust, almost always).

2. Crown store items, especially the aforementioned convenience items are too expensive.

a: First of all, just as Rich pointed out correctly on his stream, you don't just pay for the items themselves, but for the convenience to have access to those items and services anywhere, any time.
You don't just buy a respec, you buy yourself the time it would take for you to go to a major city, find the respec shrine and do it there. Suddenly the pricing starts to makes more sense.

b: One of the videos stipulated that respec scrolls cost 1 million gold, due to conversion rates. "It's costing them a million gold" .
Sorry but what?? Do you honestly believe that there are players out there, that know about how gold to crown conversion works, have a million gold or more, but don't know how to respec at a Rededication shrine?
You know what, I fully support ZOS "exploiting" this insanely large portion of the player base.

Not to mention, 1:1 comparing crown and gold prices is beyond stupid even without my previous argument, because gold to crown exchange rates change vary widely depending(typically seller side) on the source and channels which we use to convert. It's different per server, per person, per transaction. And yes this includes dedicated discord groups that help make these transactions happen.
I will say this though, I do think that many of these items are too expensive, I base their relative value, on how much time and effort purchasing them would save me, and paying half of a monthly Netflix subscription for a handful of soul gems definitely feels excessive pricing. But that's my point here, most of these items aren't particularly difficult to obtain outside the crown store, and it's likely that ZOS would make more money if they were cheaper(due to higher volume).

3. We already pay so much for the game and ESO+ is mandatory.
This a sentiment I have seen echoed not necessarily just recently, but ever since the game dropped it's original monetization model.
First of all, I want to say that ESO+ is absolutely perfect for I how play the game: When I play the game i play long hours and do a variety of activities, and when I don't, well I cancel my eso+ and the game cost me exactly nothing when I am not actually playing it.
I often hear how the craft bag is predatory, I'd say it absolutely is necessary if you plan on crafting your own items, gather materials for profit etc.
However those activities are all associated with long playtimes, and general dedication to playing the game. A single cinema ticket for a couple of hours of entertainment will cost you more than eso+.
Oh and btw, all those items you store in your super expensive crafting bag actually use data. Data that has to be stored and indexed physically somewhere else, on top of providing you access to said data any time you want to. And that costs money. And yes the company makes a profit off of it. So what? I swear people act like they have never worked for a business or owned one themselves.
In business you have to be profitable, just to justify the existence of the very business you run/work for. If this game wasn't profitable, than this game wouldn't exist.
That's how the real world works. This game provides hundreds, even thousands of hours of entertainment, for a fraction of the cost as most other entertainment media does.
Seriously, look at cinema tickets nowadays, and see how much it would cost you to spend even a hundred hours watching movies at a theatre. Yeah..
There's a reason why video streaming services are so popular nowadays, after all.

4. My last point is using Rich's personal stream and statements to rail against company policies that you don't like.
Rich Lambert is the creative director at ZOS, if you think that he is personally responsible for what's inside the crown store and how much it costs, you need a healthy dose of reality.
Please stop using someone's personal stream, which they do for fun btw, to create outrage against company policy. Rich is not a one man ZOS developer team, and just because you can't find the people personally responsible for the issues you have with the game, that doesn't mean you have the right to pin your anger on the first person you can find.
I see this behavior happen against the community managers on a daily basis, usually on subjects they have no control over, and it's just as bad.
It's basically the equivalent of calling a customer service of a company, and shouting at and degrading the CS agent, because you have and issue with the company itself.
It's called misplaced anger, and yall need look the definition up.


As a final word, if anyone thinks I am trying whiteknight or shill for ZOS: please look at my post history, I have never been afraid to criticize the company or even certain parts of the dev team if I felt like it.
I made this post, because I feel like a lot of the recent outrage about these crown store items were either badly argued, due to lack of information, or seeing the big picture, or in some cases were outright malicious looking to grab those sweet juicy outrage views.(Fact is, these items have been in the crown store for years, but never before I have seen such a concentrated effort from multiple content creators to pile up on the subject matter.)

I hope this post adheres all the community rules, etc etc bla bla.

Have a good one everyone!
  • SkaraMinoc
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    I personally need ZOS to make more money so they can provide a quality gaming experience. Currently PvP does not meet my quality expectations and I would like to see more revenue steered toward improving that experience.This means I need the crown store to exist and I need whales to support ZOS. The limited availability and relatively high cost of items does mean some players will be unhappy.

    If there was a way for ZOS to generate more revenue while keeping everyone happy, I would support that.

    Edited by SkaraMinoc on December 12, 2021 2:52PM
    PC NA
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  • Firstmep
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    SkaraMinoc wrote: »
    I personally need ZOS to make more money so they can provide a quality gaming experience. Currently PvP does not meet my quality expectations and I would like to see more revenue steered toward improving that experience.This means I need the crown store to exist and I need whales to support ZOS. The limited availability and relatively high cost of items does mean some players will be unhappy.

    If there was a way for ZOS to generate more revenue while keeping everyone happy, I would support that.

    I completely agree.

    If some people are too unhappy with the pricing, I can understand the argument for lowering them, but I think people need to look at their own personal spending practices first and foremost before condemning the company.

    I can only speak for myself and my friends, but most of us are completely unaffected by the expensive convenience items in the Crown Store.
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  • Sylvermynx
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    I didn't know until your post Firstmep that there WAS outrage by "content creators" - because I have zero interest in and therefore no use for "them".

    I bought crates off and on the first year I played, got a LOT of nice stuff on both accounts, and since then I've pretty much never bought any of them again. Once in a while there will be a crate season I really love so I'll buy one or two, but that's it.

    My SOE are going bye-bye on this season....
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  • Firstmep
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    Sylvermynx wrote: »
    I didn't know until your post Firstmep that there WAS outrage by "content creators" - because I have zero interest in and therefore no use for "them".

    I bought crates off and on the first year I played, got a LOT of nice stuff on both accounts, and since then I've pretty much never bought any of them again. Once in a while there will be a crate season I really love so I'll buy one or two, but that's it.

    My SOE are going bye-bye on this season....

    Like I said it's a growing trend. I watch a lot of ESO related content on YouTube so stuff like this might pop up in my recommended videos more than it would for the average player.
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  • Lady_Galadhiel
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    There will always be happy customers and unhappy costumers.
    It is just a buisness like every other and therefor there will be also more disapproval or approval pointed out on the medias.
    And? Everyone is free to express their thoughts and opinions no matter of people like it or find it justified or not.
    Total ESO playtime: 8325 hours
    ESO plus status: Cancelled
    ESO currently uninstalled.
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  • mickeyx
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    God forbid some content creators are calling out companies for going a bit overboard with their monetization and cash shops. At least some are speaking about it and trying to keep companies in check.
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  • Kiralyn2000
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    I don't even watch official dev videos. There's only so much time in a day, if I watched videos about games, I wouldn't have time to play them. Honestly just don't get this whole "content creator" thing.

    (also find it a bit ironic for "content creators" to be moaning about monetization, since the entire drive of the streaming/youtube/'content' scene seems to be "but how can I monetize this"?)
    Edited by Kiralyn2000 on December 12, 2021 3:26PM
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  • Pevey
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    mickeyx wrote: »
    God forbid some content creators are calling out companies for going a bit overboard with their monetization and cash shops. At least some are speaking about it and trying to keep companies in check.

    Nothing they say will keep companies in check. People will either buy or they will not buy, and that will keep companies in check.

    Games are large endeavors. These companies have real people working for them. They have to find a way to pay them somehow.
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  • Bradyfjord
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    I have no problem with cash shops. There is little pay to win here, but a lot of cosmetic customization and convenience. I do have an issue with things in crates never being purchasable outside of buying crates. While I do occasionally buy a pack of crates here and there, I shouldn't have to if I want certain things out of the cash shop. That said, I rarely open the shop except once a season to see what's up.
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  • Tandor
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    A lot of people these days don't want to pay subscriptions, so they get an alternative business model. There isn't any other option, a game of this type and scale can never be truly "Free to Play", that just isn't remotely realistic. It has to be paid for one way or another, and this game has the option of a subscription or the alternative of the Crown Store. That's fine by me in that there's very little in the Crown Store of interest to me and anything I do want is covered by the Crowns I get for subscribing. However, if others don't want to pay a subscription and then complain about the Crown Store then I have no sympathy.

    I wasn't aware of any "outrage", but then I just play the game and visit this forum. Things like streamers, You Tube videos, Twitch, Reddit and Discord are of as much interest to me as Zone Chat - and I disabled that the day I installed the game!
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  • The3sFinest
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    SkaraMinoc wrote: »
    I personally need ZOS to make more money so they can provide a quality gaming experience. Currently PvP does not meet my quality expectations and I would like to see more revenue steered toward improving that experience.This means I need the crown store to exist and I need whales to support ZOS. The limited availability and relatively high cost of items does mean some players will be unhappy.

    If there was a way for ZOS to generate more revenue while keeping everyone happy, I would support that.

    Well, sorry, but none of that money goes towards performance, bugs, etc improvements.
    Edited by The3sFinest on December 12, 2021 4:21PM
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  • Firstmep
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    SkaraMinoc wrote: »
    I personally need ZOS to make more money so they can provide a quality gaming experience. Currently PvP does not meet my quality expectations and I would like to see more revenue steered toward improving that experience.This means I need the crown store to exist and I need whales to support ZOS. The limited availability and relatively high cost of items does mean some players will be unhappy.

    If there was a way for ZOS to generate more revenue while keeping everyone happy, I would support that.

    Well, sorry, but none of that money goes towards performance, bugs, etc improvements.

    Yeah instead it goes towards creating new content, server upkeep costs etc.
    [snip]

    [edited for trolling]
    Edited by ZOS_Icy on December 12, 2021 7:24PM
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  • VaranisArano
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    The only pay-for-convience item that bugs me is the vampire/werewolf cure.

    It costs me 600 gold to have an NPC in the capital cities cure me. Putting that in the Crown Store for 800 crowns is just preying on player ignorance, not merely impatience.

    What I would like to see is a disclaimer on it directing players to Prelate Sabinus for an in-game cure. Then we could say it wasn't preying on ignorance. But then ZOS would also make less money as even impatient players are reminded "Hey, you know you can get this cure for literally pocket change in game, right?"
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  • Brrrofski
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    The only pay-for-convience item that bugs me is the vampire/werewolf cure.

    It costs me 600 gold to have an NPC in the capital cities cure me. Putting that in the Crown Store for 800 crowns is just preying on player ignorance, not merely impatience.

    What I would like to see is a disclaimer on it directing players to Prelate Sabinus for an in-game cure. Then we could say it wasn't preying on ignorance. But then ZOS would also make less money as even impatient players are reminded "Hey, you know you can get this cure for literally pocket change in game, right?"

    [snip]

    It's so cheap in game. It's actually shocking that they sell it on the crown store.

    [edited for bashing]
    Edited by ZOS_Icy on December 12, 2021 5:46PM
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  • Grandchamp1989
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    I don't want to sound critical, but I don't really care much about someone on the forum answering questions on behalf of Zenimax Online or the Youtube community.

    While some of your points are valid, I don't think this is for the forum to solve.
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  • Nanfoodle
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    Funny, Zeni has a good balance of play for free, pay to access what you want, sub to get access to just about everything and save up your store currency to buy whatever you want.

    Or you can be that guy that spends RL cash because they can't wait and want it all. You really get to 100% pick how you support this game.

    IMO I'm sick of people think companies that make games should not be business focused. Like they are running some kind of charity for fun. I get people getting upset with a game that only sets up whales to win. ESO is not that game. I sub and rarely feel the desire to buy more crowns. And when I do, it's because I'm impatient to wait.
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  • Casul
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    Nanfoodle wrote: »
    Funny, Zeni has a good balance of play for free, pay to access what you want, sub to get access to just about everything and save up your store currency to buy whatever you want.

    Or you can be that guy that spends RL cash because they can't wait and want it all. You really get to 100% pick how you support this game.

    IMO I'm sick of people think companies that make games should not be business focused. Like they are running some kind of charity for fun. I get people getting upset with a game that only sets up whales to win. ESO is not that game. I sub and rarely feel the desire to buy more crowns. And when I do, it's because I'm impatient to wait.

    Personally I am just annoyed by the constant decline of quality they offer. Last sub I had was Nov. 2017, after they stopped the crown crates for subs during ESO+ trial and gave out a whopping 10-15% discount on specific crown items I was done.

    Now the current prices are going up and the value is going down.

    Moving to PC I am going to buy a stock of crowns on sale eventually but I cannot justify supporting a sub that I knew used to be much more enticing.

    No disrespect to people who do sub, I am happy it still has value to them. But to me it is not enough to stop my protest.
    PvP needs more love.
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  • Raideen
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    The outrage is real, and for good reason.

    People fundamentally do not like having companies always reaching into their wallet/purse. And this is exactly what ESO does, its designed to.

    Nowhere is it stated when someone purchases ESO that the majority of collectables are locked behind a pay wall, collectables that in the most popular MMORPG's in history are obtained for simply playing the game. And not just that, but collectables that can and often go beyond the price of an entire base game/expansion.

    Nowhere is it stated when someone purchases ESO that the game by design manufacturers 'problems' and then sells solutions in the crown store. For example. The 420+ crafting mats that eat up storage. Rich Lambert himself said recently "though I would say I don't know how people live without craftbag" meaning the crafting bag as part of ESO+, a 15 dollar a month "subscription". If Rich believes the 'craft bag' is mandatory for gameplay, this mirrors what many have aid for years that its "mandatory" to enjoy the game and shuts down opposing commentary that "it's not mandatory".

    People do not expect to buy a game, and then pay 15 bucks a month for a game only to be told that if they want a mount, a pet, a costume etc, that these are only obtainable for money, on top of the money already spent. It feels like double dipping.

    TLDR: When people purchase a game, they expect to play that game and be able to obtain items in the game by playing the game that they see in promotional videos.

    Consider this, as Einstein would say "a thought experiment". Imagine what ESO would look like in game, if you removed every mount, pet, skin, outfit, emote, memento, dye, personality, hairstyle, adornments, markings, facial hairs, polymorphs, houses, furnishings that are only obtainable in the crown store. These items showcase how little there is in the base game/chapters and how much additional money must be spent by the consumer to have "nice things".

    People expect content when they buy a game, they dont expect to buy a game, then have to buy everything in game separately.

    EDITED to finalize thoughts in some paragraphs above.


    Edited by Raideen on December 12, 2021 6:04PM
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  • Gaebriel0410
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    The moment I feel exploited playing a game, is the moment I will stop playing it. I can't remember ever feeling like that while playing ESO. I always find the whole take that new players are utterly clueless and easily tricked into stores a bit weird.

    Putting disclaimers on those items would be good though, more info never hurts.

    I think 'predatory' is just one of those gaming buzzwords, just like 'anti-consumer', 'disingenuous' and 'pay to win'.

    Whenever they're thrown around on the internet, those terms all seem to translate to 'something I dislike a lot and everyone who doesn't dislike it is part of the problem and <insertname> + followers think that too, and by the way they have x views/likes on y'.
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  • Nanfoodle
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    BuildMan wrote: »
    Nanfoodle wrote: »
    Funny, Zeni has a good balance of play for free, pay to access what you want, sub to get access to just about everything and save up your store currency to buy whatever you want.

    Or you can be that guy that spends RL cash because they can't wait and want it all. You really get to 100% pick how you support this game.

    IMO I'm sick of people think companies that make games should not be business focused. Like they are running some kind of charity for fun. I get people getting upset with a game that only sets up whales to win. ESO is not that game. I sub and rarely feel the desire to buy more crowns. And when I do, it's because I'm impatient to wait.

    Personally I am just annoyed by the constant decline of quality they offer. Last sub I had was Nov. 2017, after they stopped the crown crates for subs during ESO+ trial and gave out a whopping 10-15% discount on specific crown items I was done.

    Now the current prices are going up and the value is going down.

    Moving to PC I am going to buy a stock of crowns on sale eventually but I cannot justify supporting a sub that I knew used to be much more enticing.

    No disrespect to people who do sub, I am happy it still has value to them. But to me it is not enough to stop my protest.

    Value is why I sub. Look around the industry and no game gives so much for their monthly sub. Adjusting business to their needs is as I said above. This is a business and they need to do what they need to, to keep deep into the black. For us to have the game we want, they need to make real profits. We cant get upset at them for that, when Zeni has been fair, letting us pick how we support this game.

    I have been MMOing for 22+ years. I have never been mmore happy with the value I get for my monthly sub. Great thing is you don't see that value and still get to play ESO the way you want. That seems really fair.
    Edited by Nanfoodle on December 12, 2021 5:46PM
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  • agingerinohio
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    In here to say as a long time MMO player and player of this game, I thoroughly agree Nanfoodle. Just last night in game all I spent was 6,750 gold to respec my skills at the shrine in Elden Root-Grahtwood. Then another 3,000 gold to redistribute my CP. The ability to respec is that cheap already in game.
    The existence of the crown store is to supplement income going towards ZOS so they can continue to produce content for the game. I do not believe it is “pay to win” like I’ve seen with other games. People always want to cling onto something to complain about and demonize others based off their inability to look up a game guide online and settle down a bit with this ever growing need of instant gratification.
    For the record, I believe the game is in a better state then I’ve seen it in the past which is why I have returned after a break and am sticking around.
    As for these streamers complaining, it gets them views. Views go up? They’ll continue on the same topic that got them views.
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  • The3sFinest
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    Firstmep wrote: »
    SkaraMinoc wrote: »
    I personally need ZOS to make more money so they can provide a quality gaming experience. Currently PvP does not meet my quality expectations and I would like to see more revenue steered toward improving that experience.This means I need the crown store to exist and I need whales to support ZOS. The limited availability and relatively high cost of items does mean some players will be unhappy.

    If there was a way for ZOS to generate more revenue while keeping everyone happy, I would support that.

    Well, sorry, but none of that money goes towards performance, bugs, etc improvements.

    Yeah instead it goes towards creating new content, server upkeep costs etc.
    [snip]

    [snip]They have said before, and it is well known that crown store sales do not contribute to anything other than artistic development.

    [edited for baiting & to remove quote]
    Edited by ZOS_Icy on December 12, 2021 7:22PM
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  • SilverBride
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    These "content creators" are nothing more than gamers giving their opinions, and what they think or say is no more valid than any other gamers' opinions. Just being on YouTube does not instantly make them an authority on anything they choose to talk about.
    PCNA
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  • Amottica
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    As a new player, started earlier this year, I never once looked to the cash shop for things like respecing. I never even considered it. I merely asked how to undo selecting a skill and for my answer. It was easy.

    I have respected more than a few times and never found it inconvenient to go to a shrine and take care of business. I do respect that each of us have our opinions and different perspectives. I’m just posting this from the perspective of a new player.
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  • Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo
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    Hi OP,

    I find these marketing practices abusive too, (monetary shortcuts in relation to the long haul passives)
    In general, I find that the game is over priced and I'm quite certain 1/5 people find it to be the case too.

    I just came out of Greyhost Cyrodiil PvP and well...let's just say it was for the geode's sake. I'm subbed, I purchased Blackwood, but I'm still pushed into something that is broken/unlooked at in regards to set/build abuse to be able to transmute my gear/or I have the choice of running dungeons with pugs over and over...So in that regard, no. I'm not satisfied with my hefty monthly and DLC based payments.

    We were also speaking about everyday/week payments we make in guild last night and everyone moaned about it, finding it rather ridiculous.

    In game currency:
    Champion points are to be paid (Thousands)
    Costumes/Outift styles and colours are to be paid (Thousands)
    Skill re-morphs are to be paid (Thousands)

    It all seems rather chaotic to us.

    PS: To reply to the comment above mine: Content creators can go two ways: Either extremely biased as they have been called upon by a game producer or very critical as they have no agenda or just don't like the game in regard to the others they may have played.
    Edited by Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo on December 12, 2021 6:17PM
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  • colossalvoids
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    I'd just say that it's well deserved, surely there are better ways to present ones opinion without getting personal or overly sarcastic but we all know that without an actual "outrage" there's no chance for a change, whatever it might be.
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  • sionIV
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    SkaraMinoc wrote: »
    I personally need ZOS to make more money so they can provide a quality gaming experience. Currently PvP does not meet my quality expectations and I would like to see more revenue steered toward improving that experience.This means I need the crown store to exist and I need whales to support ZOS. The limited availability and relatively high cost of items does mean some players will be unhappy.

    If there was a way for ZOS to generate more revenue while keeping everyone happy, I would support that.

    While it makes me sad to say this, PvP is the last area of the game to receive any time, support or love from ZOS. ESO could get thousands of new whales, and there are areas of the game that still wouldn't get the attention it deserves.
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  • Mushroomancer
    Mushroomancer
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    So, I haven't read most of the comments in this thread, and I haven't been keeping too much up to date with the whole Rich Lambert stream shenanigans, as that seems like kinda overblown drama bs to me. That said, here's my unprompted two cents on your considerations.

    1. Certain "Pay for convenience" items are too expensive and predatory towards newer players.

    I'm gonna lump the two points you make here together, since they are pretty much the continuation of one another.
    So, yes, I think we can objectively say that stuff like respec scrolls or ww/vamp cures/bites are genuinely predatory. First of all, and you're free to disagree, I think most of the stuff in the CS is overpriced (looking at you Outfit and Armory slots), secondly, as you mention, people don't go looking in the help section for information about mechanics that are so specific. To be honest I don't see why they don't just put a tooltip within the crown store section for these items just letting players know that all these services can be accessed for free through gameplay or in-game currency; actually I do see why, and it's because, of course, if a new player stumbles upon one of those services in the CS they're gonna be clueless, and that's gonna be a free sale of a frankly completely useless paid-for item.
    Also, I get what you're saying about players getting information from outside sources, but at the same time, not everyone might be savvy enough to be able to find that information, or have the foresight and experience to know to check for that stuff. Also, with how rampant micro-transactions are in pretty much every online game (not saying it's a bad thing, they have to keep the lights on after all), why would it be so wild to think that paying for respec with real money would be the only option? What if a player's only experience with MMOs is with one of the more mtx-heavy MMOs you mention?

    2. Crown store items, especially the aforementioned convenience items are too expensive.

    a. Yeah, no, I'm sorry, this is pure, unadulterated BS. You're meaning to tell me I'm supposed to pay for the convenience of avoid wasting a couple of minutes porting to any major city and getting to a respec shrine? And even if I don't know where to find the shrine, or that they even exist, that doesn't warrant people spending real money for a free mechanic.

    b. I have no idea what this is getting at, and I agree, I think the only people who would use gold to buy CS items, would most likely know about respec shrines, so that seems like a moot point.

    3. We already pay so much for the game and ESO+ is mandatory.

    I somewhat agree with the fact that ESO+ is geared towards longer playtimes/sessions, so it shouldn't really be a problem for people that play every once in a while, and maybe even get to make use of the occasional free ESO+ periods to store their stuff in the craft bag. This however, makes me wonder if so many people would create "storage" characters if they didn't need to pay for a craft bag. I think the main problem with ESO+ is that it just doesn't feel that much of a great deal anymore, yeah sure, you get a bunch of QoL stuff like the craft bag, and access to all DLCs, but that is pretty much it, it doesn't really feel like something that is worth €15/month, especially when it IS REQUIRED, if you plan on playing at even a moderately decent level or frequency.
    Also, I think people are not really mad about ZOS asking for money for stuff like ESO+, I think they are more concerned with the fact that the money doesn't seem to be going into making the game better. Now, don't get me wrong, of course you have to pay your employees, and the creative and coding process for new content is most likely not cheap, but I think people are at least slightly entitled to being a bit miffed if you promise performance upgrades, and you don't seem to deliver, not to mention the fact that, to me, the amount and quality of most content seems to be going downhill as time goes on.
    Also, also, I don't think comparing ESO+ to something like a movie ticket, or streaming services really applies, they're different kinds of media, with different modes of consumption and interaction, and, therefore, different expectations on what a paid-for subscription would entail.

    4. My last point is using Rich's personal stream and statements to rail against company policies that you don't like.

    I completely agree with this, as you say, I think it's just people misplacing their anger and directing it towards "the big man", kinda like what happens with Bethesda and Todd Howard getting all kinds of claims thrown at him, even though he is the head of one of the biggest development studios out there.

    In conclusion, I think you make some good point, some less so, I appreciate you expressing your opinion on the matter, and I hope I made some decent counterpoints that you're free to dismantle. In the end, I think this time the outrage feels much more homogenous partly because, as Nefas pointed in a video, it was boldly advertised on Twitter, and partly because it just seems to be a matter of a "repeat offense" going over the threshold of what many people can stand.
    Edited by Mushroomancer on December 13, 2021 8:53AM
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  • SeaGtGruff
    SeaGtGruff
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    I don't think Rich was ill-advised to show viewers the help system and how to use it to find help with things in the game. And if most players tend to look for help outside the game itself, or from other players in zone and guild chat, in my opinion that sort of reinforces why it's a good idea for someone to show them the game's help system. Note, I'm saying that as someone who's barely ever used the help system and who tends to turn to the UESP wiki for information about the game. From now on, I'll try to remember to look in the help system for help.

    As far as how the functionality and design of the help system varies from one platform to the other, that might make it harder to find information as quickly and easily on some platforms, but if the information is still there then that makes it all the more important for players on those platforms to learn how best to use whatever functions they do have available. That's not to say that improvements shouldn't be considered by the devs.

    I wasn't aware of any recent complaints about the game from streamers, and complaints about the Crown Store have probably been a thing since the day the Crown Store first became available. But speaking in general, I've found that streamers can be a bad source of information about a game. Some of them are very knowledgeable about a game and give good information, but others can spout off bad information about a game. I don't think the majority who do are being malicious; they're probably just repeating what they've read or been told and don't realize their information is wrong. The average streamer is a casual gamer with no in-depth knowledge about the games they're streaming, which is fine, especially if the viewers know enough to be able to separate the misconceptions from the facts. But a lot of viewers don't know much, either, in which case it can be the blind leading the blind.
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  • carlos424
    carlos424
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    Why can’t zos put a little disclaimer on crown store items that can be obtained in-game? “This item can also be obtained in-game. For more information see the help menu.” Or something to that effect.

    One of the big issues is that very few things are explained. There is no guide that I know of. You just get a few information blurbs during load screens.
    Edited by carlos424 on December 12, 2021 9:46PM
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