Is ZOS trying to annoy players and drive them away?

Roztlin45 · September 2021

Each patch the players warn of issues with changes and it seems to always go live. I don't think they play the game or at least as a mortal like us on the live server. .30 min in pvp is enough to tell anyone how bad it is and what needs to be done. [snip] The sticker book was a great add such a small thing made a lot of people happy.

[edited for bashing]

NupidStoob · September 2021

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Many things in the game push players away from the game:

- Inflexible handling of many in game issues.
[snip]
- Not fixing long-term bugs.
- Not adding small and obvious quality of life issues. (Such as multi-fillet).

Yes, the obvious reply that will come is to stop playing, but that doesn't mean it is good to continually poke at the players and those involved with this forum.

Does any MMO provider really listen to its players? Not doing everything they want of course, but listening to them in a clear and relevant manner?

[Edited for Discussion of Moderation Action]

Longterm bugs okay I can agree since some things are really around since forever.

However QoL I can't agree with at all. We basically get QoL improvements every major patch, it's just not the highest priority so it's always a few small changes. However it's mostly things people have been asking for. Waking flames brought mail replies and Interaction Priority changes so pets don't block crafting stations/wayshrines anymore and people can't troll doors with anniversary cakes. The latter is huge and something we've been asking for forever.

If you happen to play on PC you can use Votans Fish Fillet addon which saves you all the clicking. Sooner or later we'll also get mass fillet.

SeaGtGruff · September 2021

Another small QoL improvement I noticed has to do with Notifications about new Styles you've learned. This probably slipped under the radar of anyone who isn't obsessive-compulsive about checking those Notifications so they go away and the little exclamation marks also go away.

Example: You learn a new Crafting Motif for Chest. This gives you four Notifications-- Robe, Jerkin, Jack, and Cuirass. If you click on a Notification, you used to have to scroll the display of Light, Medium, and Heavy Chest styles to get to the one for that particular Notification and move the mouse pointer across it to get rid of the exclamation mark. Now, clicking on a Notification automatically scrolls to the correct area of the display such that the row with the given piece is centered in the display, so there's no need for you to scroll manually to hunt for it. Probably missed by, and unappreciated by, players who couldn't care less about such Notifications, but a much-appreciated minor QoL improvement as far as I'm concerned.

EF321 · September 2021

During one of big stream last year we were promised new servers this year. Where are those?

JKorr · September 2021

EF321 wrote: »

During one of big stream last year we were promised new servers this year. Where are those?

You mean the new servers they said are unlikely to improve performance? Again, what was stated and what people read into, between the lines of, and created their own interpretation of might not be the same thing.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/559165/new-servers-are-coming-thank-you/p1

VaranisArano · September 2021

EF321 wrote: »

During one of big stream last year we were promised new servers this year. Where are those?

https://mobile.twitter.com/tesonline/status/1364970532622458884

"The new servers will be added throughout the year, but please keep in mind this is not likely to have a direct impact on in-game performance but will instead ensure that outdated hardware failures do not occur."

I don't think this is a one-and-done process.

CSose · September 2021

JKorr wrote: »

EF321 wrote: »

During one of big stream last year we were promised new servers this year. Where are those?

You mean the new servers they said are unlikely to improve performance? Again, what was stated and what people read into, between the lines of, and created their own interpretation of might not be the same thing.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/559165/new-servers-are-coming-thank-you/p1

If I remember correctly they never claimed we would get new servers. They said we'd get different servers, whatever that means.

Tandor · September 2021

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Another small QoL improvement I noticed has to do with Notifications about new Styles you've learned. This probably slipped under the radar of anyone who isn't obsessive-compulsive about checking those Notifications so they go away and the little exclamation marks also go away.

Example: You learn a new Crafting Motif for Chest. This gives you four Notifications-- Robe, Jerkin, Jack, and Cuirass. If you click on a Notification, you used to have to scroll the display of Light, Medium, and Heavy Chest styles to get to the one for that particular Notification and move the mouse pointer across it to get rid of the exclamation mark. Now, clicking on a Notification automatically scrolls to the correct area of the display such that the row with the given piece is centered in the display, so there's no need for you to scroll manually to hunt for it. Probably missed by, and unappreciated by, players who couldn't care less about such Notifications, but a much-appreciated minor QoL improvement as far as I'm concerned.

Another QoL improvement recently added relates to the crafting tutorial which you used to have to run around the Mages and Fighters Guilds to pick up. In Blackwood I was delighted to see the NPCs in the crafting area.

As a more general comment on this topic, when players complain that "they never do anything people want" they usually mean "they never do anything I want". Whenever they complain about ZOS as Z$S I lose interest in their point, similarly when they make some cheap jibe about how their point would be addressed if it related to the crown store. If the topic headline is all in caps I don't bother to read it at all. I wouldn't be at all surprised if any developers lurking on the forum took the same approach. Life is never simply about what you ask for, it's also about how you ask for it.

FlopsyPrince · September 2021

CSose wrote: »

WhyMustItBe wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

What evidence do you see of this caring? I can't think of a single example.

People see what they want to see. ZOS has recently invested significant time and resources into implementing multithreaded rendering and other performance improvements which DO make a difference. They may not address the specific problem you personally are concerned about, but saying there is not one single example is just disingenuous.

Beyond that, the whole way you go about expressing your concerns comes off as rude, accusatory, and confrontational. How can you expect ANY rational person to want to engage you when you present your arguments like someone LOOKING for a fight?

This goes to what I stated previously:

...only cares only about what they have to say and how they feel, also often without really making any effort to understand why they feel that way, and without any consideration HOW they go about conveying those feelings to others...

I'd say work on your presentation and practice presenting your concerns without being so rude and confrontational. You will get more flies with honey than vinegar. Also, don't fall into the trap where you ASSUME that presenting your concerns calmly and reasonably will just be ignored. That is a farce. It is when comments are rude and accusatory that they get ignored.

In this case, you are your own worst enemy. It is basic people skills 101.

Except the OP is not out of line or being overly rude or demanding. They're mostly just stating facts. Nothing wrong with that. Mischaracterizing their actions is a straw man.

Exactly. You have identified the normal response to any change. Merely asking is viewed as offensive by some.

Tandor wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Another small QoL improvement I noticed has to do with Notifications about new Styles you've learned. This probably slipped under the radar of anyone who isn't obsessive-compulsive about checking those Notifications so they go away and the little exclamation marks also go away.

Example: You learn a new Crafting Motif for Chest. This gives you four Notifications-- Robe, Jerkin, Jack, and Cuirass. If you click on a Notification, you used to have to scroll the display of Light, Medium, and Heavy Chest styles to get to the one for that particular Notification and move the mouse pointer across it to get rid of the exclamation mark. Now, clicking on a Notification automatically scrolls to the correct area of the display such that the row with the given piece is centered in the display, so there's no need for you to scroll manually to hunt for it. Probably missed by, and unappreciated by, players who couldn't care less about such Notifications, but a much-appreciated minor QoL improvement as far as I'm concerned.

Another QoL improvement recently added relates to the crafting tutorial which you used to have to run around the Mages and Fighters Guilds to pick up. In Blackwood I was delighted to see the NPCs in the crafting area.

As a more general comment on this topic, when players complain that "they never do anything people want" they usually mean "they never do anything I want". Whenever they complain about ZOS as Z$S I lose interest in their point, similarly when they make some cheap jibe about how their point would be addressed if it related to the crown store. If the topic headline is all in caps I don't bother to read it at all. I wouldn't be at all surprised if any developers lurking on the forum took the same approach. Life is never simply about what you ask for, it's also about how you ask for it.

I didn't notice the crafting change and that is hard to see. I skip most in Alinor, my normal location for that, and go to Auridon or such instead. Some note of that would give better credit (and adding it to Alinor).

It is also incorrect to say "my changes don't happen so it bothers me." That is not what I said. It is the lack of feeling any level of input. [snip]

I don't know what I will do, but this is another pin making the game (and these forums) quite annoying.

I decided not to go cold turkey, yet, but I may. I know many here would say "go ahead and do that" but these things add up to possibly explain why this game gets so little positive press while FF XIV is getting great press. [snip]

Though this is not really allowed to be discussed, which only serves to make things even more annoying. It isn't any one thing, it is the overall straws that can break the camels back.

[edited for bashing & discussing moderator actions]

FlopsyPrince · September 2021

I have walked from significant money in other games in the past. I don't want to do it here, especially since I just bought 3 top end Crown packs (though the ones stuck on the PS4 continue to annoy me).

I also had to buy the base game, current expansion and ESO+ for a year.

They will likely ignore me anyway, but this is not a good idea if others really do feel the same ways.

Disturbed_One · September 2021

I get the game may not cater to what everybody wants...

But this is a "take my ball and go home" thread and try and make other feel guilty about it thread if there ever was one.

Enjoy your break from ESO OP

spartaxoxo · September 2021

Absolutely not. That makes literally zero sense. No legitimate company is going around trying to lose customers. They may prefer you do one activity over another but they obviously want you to keep playing and spending money. That's just like the rules of capitalism.

Gamerscape2007 · September 2021

I think I should say this, because lord knows if anyone else did, This little echochamber will burst into rage.

OP, Understand that the people who were once here would have agreed with you. However, they have moved on. People like myself are just waiting for new world now, while others are playing other games. The people who left stopped caring, or didn't want to deal with the game anymore, and that's the truth of the matter.

You're wasting your time even making a thread like this, because all you get are forum warriors coming out of the wood works, just to say you're wrong. They don't care if you have problems no matter how valid, or you are taking a break or whatever. As long you are out of their echochamber, they're happy.

Want my advice OP? Do what make you happy. Don't let anyone here tell you, you're wrong, because you're not. Like I said, the people who actually care, are gone, and stopped caring, or banned and didn't bother coming back.

Jeffrey530 · September 2021

Gamerscape2007 wrote: »

Want my advice OP? Do what make you happy. Don't let anyone here tell you, you're wrong, because you're not. Like I said, the people who actually care, are gone, and stopped caring, or banned and didn't bother coming back.

I think you meant those who thought they were mmo experts demanded changes because they bought a few crown packs but did not get the game to be tailored for themselves left. Back in 2014-2015 I saw many who demanded changes and claimed if zos did not follow they would drive customers away and the game would shut down. But hey here we are still up and running after 8 yrs.

Edit Formating

spartaxoxo · September 2021

Gamerscape2007 wrote: »

Want my advice OP? Do what make you happy. Don't let anyone here tell you, you're wrong, because you're not. Like I said, the people who actually care, are gone, and stopped caring, or banned and didn't bother coming back.

Just because someone doesnt share your opinion, doesn't mean they don't care. I think some of the points OP brought are valid, but I also think is one of the best MMOs on the market and that I like this game more than I don’t like it.

You can have problems with things you like. OP seems like he just doesn't like this game. That what are minor issues to me (like multi-fileting) are deal breakers for him. That's fine. Perhaps he'd be happier with another game, same as anyone else who are fed up with the game.

And "they want to drive away customer" is such a bad, overly hyperbolic framing device for his argument. It's easy to dismiss and frankly invited people to disagree with something they may have agreed with otherwise.

spartaxoxo · September 2021

Jeffrey530 wrote: »

Back in 2014-2015 I saw many who demanded changes and claimed if zos did not follow they would drive customers away and the game would shut down. But hey here we are still up and running after 8 yrs.

Edit Formating

And not just around, but thriving.

Gamerscape2007 · September 2021

Jeffrey530 wrote: »

Gamerscape2007 wrote: »

Want my advice OP? Do what make you happy. Don't let anyone here tell you, you're wrong, because you're not. Like I said, the people who actually care, are gone, and stopped caring, or banned and didn't bother coming back.

I think you meant those who thought they were mmo experts demanded changes because they bought a few crown packs but did not get the game to be tailored for themselves left. Back in 2014-2015 I saw many who demanded changes and claimed if zos did not follow they would drive customers away and the game would shut down. But hey here we are still up and running after 8 yrs.

Edit Formating

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Gamerscape2007 wrote: »

Want my advice OP? Do what make you happy. Don't let anyone here tell you, you're wrong, because you're not. Like I said, the people who actually care, are gone, and stopped caring, or banned and didn't bother coming back.

Just because someone doesnt share your opinion, doesn't mean they don't care. I think some of the points OP brought are valid, but I also think is one of the best MMOs on the market and that I like this game more than I don’t like it.

You can have problems with things you like. OP seems like he just doesn't like this game. That what are minor issues to me (like multi-fileting) are deal breakers for him. That's fine. Perhaps he'd be happier with another game, same as anyone else who are fed up with the game.

And "they want to drive away customer" is such a bad, overly hyperbolic framing device for his argument. It's easy to dismiss and frankly invited people to disagree with something they may have agreed with otherwise.

A MMO lasting 8 years does not mean those "Mmo Expert" Were wrong. Hell, if that's your logic, by your definition, World of warcraft should still be fine, despite, oh I don't know.... Bleeding Players to final fantasy 14? And yes, Wow is still doing fine. It will continue to be fine, I wager. But here's the reality, The Reason Wow is bleeding players is because People have been Burned. CONSTANTLY. Time and time again. Eventually, people don't care if a game is amazing. If all they experience is awful game design, bugs, and constant silence from the game devs, they'd want to leave, and they lose any interest in coming back. Why should they? If they just gonna get screwed over again?

That's where eso Is at right now. People are getting tired of the silence, the game breaking bugs, no consideration, people are just done. Burned out of it all. These "Minor" As one of you call it can add up over time, especially when there is enough of them to disrupt gameplay. And he's the damnest thing of all. I do like the game. I do enjoy it. When it works. But when I am clipping though walls, gap closing into a loading screen, my skill not working half the time, the dreadful balance? There is so much I can take before I say, "There gotta be something better then this." Of course, Eso will continue to go on. Idk where you get the thriving part, but it doing good. If it is thriving, Good. You like the game? Awesome. [snip]

And no, they don't want to drive people away. Of course they don't, they want to make money. But it's clear, to me at least, that they'd rather fix tiny error on the crown store, then to actually fix the game. The crown store is FAR more important then the game. You wonder why threads like this exist? This is why.

[edited for baiting]

neferpitou73 · September 2021

Whether they're doing it intentionally or not the effect is the same.

Gamerscape2007 wrote: »

Jeffrey530 wrote: »

Gamerscape2007 wrote: »

Want my advice OP? Do what make you happy. Don't let anyone here tell you, you're wrong, because you're not. Like I said, the people who actually care, are gone, and stopped caring, or banned and didn't bother coming back.

I think you meant those who thought they were mmo experts demanded changes because they bought a few crown packs but did not get the game to be tailored for themselves left. Back in 2014-2015 I saw many who demanded changes and claimed if zos did not follow they would drive customers away and the game would shut down. But hey here we are still up and running after 8 yrs.

Edit Formating

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Gamerscape2007 wrote: »

Want my advice OP? Do what make you happy. Don't let anyone here tell you, you're wrong, because you're not. Like I said, the people who actually care, are gone, and stopped caring, or banned and didn't bother coming back.

Just because someone doesnt share your opinion, doesn't mean they don't care. I think some of the points OP brought are valid, but I also think is one of the best MMOs on the market and that I like this game more than I don’t like it.

You can have problems with things you like. OP seems like he just doesn't like this game. That what are minor issues to me (like multi-fileting) are deal breakers for him. That's fine. Perhaps he'd be happier with another game, same as anyone else who are fed up with the game.

And "they want to drive away customer" is such a bad, overly hyperbolic framing device for his argument. It's easy to dismiss and frankly invited people to disagree with something they may have agreed with otherwise.

A MMO lasting 8 years does not mean those "Mmo Expert" Were wrong. Hell, if that's your logic, by your definition, World of warcraft should still be fine, despite, oh I don't know.... Bleeding Players to final fantasy 14? And yes, Wow is still doing fine. It will continue to be fine, I wager. But here's the reality, The Reason Wow is bleeding players is because People have been Burned. CONSTANTLY. Time and time again. Eventually, people don't care if a game is amazing. If all they experience is awful game design, bugs, and constant silence from the game devs, they'd want to leave, and they lose any interest in coming back. Why should they? If they just gonna get screwed over again?

That's where eso Is at right now. People are getting tired of the silence, the game breaking bugs, no consideration, people are just done. Burned out of it all. These "Minor" As one of you call it can add up over time, especially when there is enough of them to disrupt gameplay. And he's the damnest thing of all. I do like the game. I do enjoy it. When it works. But when I am clipping though walls, gap closing into a loading screen, my skill not working half the time, the dreadful balance? There is so much I can take before I say, "There gotta be something better then this." Of course, Eso will continue to go on. Idk where you get the thriving part, but it doing good. If it is thriving, Good. You like the game? Awesome. [snip]
And no, they don't want to drive people away. Of course they don't, they want to make money. But it's clear, to me at least, that they'd rather fix tiny error on the crown store, then to actually fix the game. The crown store is FAR more important then the game. You wonder why threads like this exist? This is why.

Exactly. When you upend the game every 3 months, repeatedly ignore feedback from people who've taken the time to test things on PTS, leave game-breaking bugs in the game for months, allow performance to deteriorate over a span of years and respond to any criticism of the above with platitudes or outright silence you're going to dive people away. Which sucks because when ESO works it's some of the best times I've had in a game.

There's a difference between complaining to complain and expecting a product you subscribe(d) to, to be functional and supported by the devs.

[edited to remove quote]

SimonThesis · September 2021

ESO is a great game but the never ending bugs that don't get fixed and the awful performance is driving people away and rapidly disbanding guilds. As a community, a lot of people feel like they seem to be pretty apathetic and disconnected from the live game. We are tired of the lack of transparency, the lack of honesty, the silence on most things 99% of the time. All the bugs that were reported on the PTS from several patches ago still haven't been fixed.
One thing I would recommend is having them secretly join in-game guilds and actually learn from their community and see what people are experiencing first hand.
They all may be part of the problem except for kevin, who is way too good to be working for them.

Jaimeh · September 2021

neferpitou73 wrote: »

Whether they're doing it intentionally or not the effect is the same.

Gamerscape2007 wrote: »

Jeffrey530 wrote: »

Gamerscape2007 wrote: »

Want my advice OP? Do what make you happy. Don't let anyone here tell you, you're wrong, because you're not. Like I said, the people who actually care, are gone, and stopped caring, or banned and didn't bother coming back.

I think you meant those who thought they were mmo experts demanded changes because they bought a few crown packs but did not get the game to be tailored for themselves left. Back in 2014-2015 I saw many who demanded changes and claimed if zos did not follow they would drive customers away and the game would shut down. But hey here we are still up and running after 8 yrs.

Edit Formating

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Gamerscape2007 wrote: »

Want my advice OP? Do what make you happy. Don't let anyone here tell you, you're wrong, because you're not. Like I said, the people who actually care, are gone, and stopped caring, or banned and didn't bother coming back.

Just because someone doesnt share your opinion, doesn't mean they don't care. I think some of the points OP brought are valid, but I also think is one of the best MMOs on the market and that I like this game more than I don’t like it.

You can have problems with things you like. OP seems like he just doesn't like this game. That what are minor issues to me (like multi-fileting) are deal breakers for him. That's fine. Perhaps he'd be happier with another game, same as anyone else who are fed up with the game.

And "they want to drive away customer" is such a bad, overly hyperbolic framing device for his argument. It's easy to dismiss and frankly invited people to disagree with something they may have agreed with otherwise.

A MMO lasting 8 years does not mean those "Mmo Expert" Were wrong. Hell, if that's your logic, by your definition, World of warcraft should still be fine, despite, oh I don't know.... Bleeding Players to final fantasy 14? And yes, Wow is still doing fine. It will continue to be fine, I wager. But here's the reality, The Reason Wow is bleeding players is because People have been Burned. CONSTANTLY. Time and time again. Eventually, people don't care if a game is amazing. If all they experience is awful game design, bugs, and constant silence from the game devs, they'd want to leave, and they lose any interest in coming back. Why should they? If they just gonna get screwed over again?

That's where eso Is at right now. People are getting tired of the silence, the game breaking bugs, no consideration, people are just done. Burned out of it all. These "Minor" As one of you call it can add up over time, especially when there is enough of them to disrupt gameplay. And he's the damnest thing of all. I do like the game. I do enjoy it. When it works. But when I am clipping though walls, gap closing into a loading screen, my skill not working half the time, the dreadful balance? There is so much I can take before I say, "There gotta be something better then this." Of course, Eso will continue to go on. Idk where you get the thriving part, but it doing good. If it is thriving, Good. You like the game? Awesome. But the dismissive attitude I have seen in this thread is just laughable at best.

And no, they don't want to drive people away. Of course they don't, they want to make money. But it's clear, to me at least, that they'd rather fix tiny error on the crown store, then to actually fix the game. The crown store is FAR more important then the game. You wonder why threads like this exist? This is why.

Exactly. When you upend the game every 3 months, repeatedly ignore feedback from people who've taken the time to test things on PTS, leave game-breaking bugs in the game for months, allow performance to deteriorate over a span of years and respond to any criticism of the above with platitudes or outright silence you're going to dive people away. Which sucks because when ESO works it's some of the best times I've had in a game.

There's a difference between complaining to complain and expecting a product you subscribe(d) to, to be functional and supported by the devs.

Agreed, and it's evident in how quiet communities have gotten, not just for end-game, but even casual communities are not active as much anymore. I was in a raid group that took a break after the chapter launched, but most members unsubbed and not playing anymore, so it won't be coming back. This seems to be the general sentiment across many groups and discord servers. Cyrodiil is also quiet, it's hard to find any fights on non-prime time, even on the main campaign.

It's not just the bugs, it's the lack of communication and involvement by the devs. We should be getting regular updates concerning current bugs, not having the treatment of them sweeping them under the carpet and hoping we'll just learn to play with them (as it's the case with many bugs over the years). Right now, synergies seem to be broken and only prompt for the same people in a group, alerts are malfunctioning and sounding off randomly, game suddenly asks for authentificaiton codes every log in, anc countless others things always introduced after a maintenance that's supposed to fix other errors.

Hopefully, devs will respect how much love players have for this game to put all this effort in testing and reporting the bugs again and again, and will do better with the game's coding.

Artanisul · September 2021

WhyMustItBe wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

What evidence do you see of this caring? I can't think of a single example.

People see what they want to see. ZOS has recently invested significant time and resources into implementing multithreaded rendering and other performance improvements which DO make a difference. They may not address the specific problem you personally are concerned about, but saying there is not one single example is just disingenuous.

Beyond that, the whole way you go about expressing your concerns comes off as rude, accusatory, and confrontational. How can you expect ANY rational person to want to engage you when you present your arguments like someone LOOKING for a fight?

This goes to what I stated previously:

...only cares only about what they have to say and how they feel, also often without really making any effort to understand why they feel that way, and without any consideration HOW they go about conveying those feelings to others...

I'd say work on your presentation and practice presenting your concerns without being so rude and confrontational. You will get more flies with honey than vinegar. Also, don't fall into the trap where you ASSUME that presenting your concerns calmly and reasonably will just be ignored. That is a farce. It is when comments are rude and accusatory that they get ignored.

In this case, you are your own worst enemy. It is basic people skills 101.

This post really kinda struck me as odd....

This guy seems to be the most polite "complainer" I have seen in years, given the state of the game stopper bugs i found.
Does anyone know you cant complete Clockwork City right now? Because one object is not interactable?....Stuff like that should not take weeks to fix....

Thanks OP for bringing up your concerns.

spartaxoxo · September 2021

Gamerscape2007 wrote: »

Of course, Eso will continue to go on. Idk where you get the thriving part, but it doing good. If it is thriving, Good. You like the game? Awesome. [snip]

The game has grown every year for the past few years and turned it's reputation around from one of the worst MMOs at launch, to one of the best. It's also making plenty of money with people eager to make purchases and items people want to see in the cash shop commonly requested.

You may not like it, but I think most would describe this game as thriving by any metric. [snip]

[edited for baiting & to remove quote]

CSose · September 2021

Jeffrey530 wrote: »

Gamerscape2007 wrote: »

Want my advice OP? Do what make you happy. Don't let anyone here tell you, you're wrong, because you're not. Like I said, the people who actually care, are gone, and stopped caring, or banned and didn't bother coming back.

I think you meant those who thought they were mmo experts demanded changes because they bought a few crown packs but did not get the game to be tailored for themselves left. Back in 2014-2015 I saw many who demanded changes and claimed if zos did not follow they would drive customers away and the game would shut down. But hey here we are still up and running after 8 yrs.

Edit Formating

They mean the players that have played since Beta and spent literally thousands of dollars on the game over the years. Myself I'm over $3,500 paid to play this game total. So ya, people like us do expect to be listened to when things aren't working as advertised.

Jameson18 · September 2021

I watch a lot more TV these days.

1mirg · September 2021

CSose wrote: »

They mean the players that have played since Beta and spent literally thousands of dollars on the game over the years. Myself I'm over $3,500 paid to play this game total. So ya, people like us do expect to be listened to when things aren't working as advertised.

alright look, I spent alot more then that over the years I played this game (not gonna say how much) but that ultimately doesn't mean anything to me if I simply don't find enjoyment in the entertainment product anymore. yea sure, i won't be getting all that scrap of cash back and that's fine to me as it's just a staple of the time I did play the game.

Here's the cold hard truth of the matter:
there's plenty of other games out there now and being "loyal" and "hoping things will get better" usually amounts to things only getting worse since at the end of the day all Video Games are products that are being sold in favor for scraps of cash and the company will usually side with whatever gives them the most profits (which makes perfect sense) and having things like a cash shop in a Video Game is a prime example of this, which to remind everyone here that in this product (eso) has only gotten worse overtime.

It's fine to be hopeful and wish things get better for a product but the fact is here is that having a "Sunkcost" mindset is not healthy in the stretch of things. If you don't find enjoyment in the product anymore then simply go find your entertainment elsewhere like I did in May 2020. you do not need to stay in a product you don't find enjoyment anymore and doing so will only worsen the game for those that still find the game enjoyable. if you need a example of how this is like then look no further then Blizzard Entertainments MMORPG where for years a majority of players remained despite not enjoying the product.

Providing feedback and concerns is fine but when you clearly aren't enjoying the game anymore then it's time to move on from it, forcing yourself to play something you don't enjoy is simply not healthy for you or those that like it. The amount of money you spent or the amount of hours you spent ingame should not sway you from jumping to other pastures as it were.

That's all I have to say here.

WhyMustItBe · September 2021

Artanisul wrote: »

This post really kinda struck me as odd....

This guy seems to be the most polite "complainer" I have seen in years, given the state of the game stopper bugs i found.
Does anyone know you cant complete Clockwork City right now? Because one object is not interactable?....Stuff like that should not take weeks to fix....

Thanks OP for bringing up your concerns.

First of all, when you premise your thread with sarcasm or a persecution complex positing a company in business to make money is possibly chasing their own customers away on purpose out of spite, you set the tone for a shaky conversation from the start. Also the actual content of the OP was heavily edited by the moderators and was not near so "polite" as you imply.

I completely understand wanting to draw attention to any game breaking bugs you might encounter, which exist in all games. Personally I have not have this problem in Clockwork City but I don't doubt the people who say it exists. So, putting in an actual ticket or posting a thread in the bug section that specifically talks about that bug would seem the most likely way to go about actually getting it looked at.

Posting sarcastic and accusatory threads about "game breaking bugs" with no specific details is NOT an effective way to go about drawing attention to or actually solving these things. That was my point, and it stands.

I get the IDEA but the way the OP chose to go about it will not have any positive result, simply because they did not bother to make the minimal effort necessary to actually describe what these "game breaking bugs" actually were, how to reproduce them, video of them happening, or ANYTHING WHATSOEVER that might actually aid the human beings looking into fixing said unspecified issues to actually do so.

It comes across more as a wall of complaints without any information that would be useful to addressing them, or even identifying what specifically they were even referring to.

Change is a two way street. If you want to see change, BE change. Make the effort instead of assuming the worst as a justification not to even try. You might be surprised.

neferpitou73 · September 2021

WhyMustItBe wrote: »

Artanisul wrote: »

This post really kinda struck me as odd....

This guy seems to be the most polite "complainer" I have seen in years, given the state of the game stopper bugs i found.
Does anyone know you cant complete Clockwork City right now? Because one object is not interactable?....Stuff like that should not take weeks to fix....

Thanks OP for bringing up your concerns.

First of all, when you premise your thread with sarcasm or a persecution complex positing a company in business to make money is possibly chasing their own customers away on purpose out of spite, you set the tone for a shaky conversation from the start. Also the actual content of the OP was heavily edited by the moderators and was not near so "polite" as you imply.

I completely understand wanting to draw attention to any game breaking bugs you might encounter, which exist in all games. Personally I have not have this problem in Clockwork City but I don't doubt the people who say it exists. So, putting in an actual ticket or posting a thread in the bug section that specifically talks about that bug would seem the most likely way to go about actually getting it looked at.

Posting sarcastic and accusatory threads about "game breaking bugs" with no specific details is NOT an effective way to go about drawing attention to or actually solving these things. That was my point, and it stands.

I get the IDEA but the way the OP chose to go about it will not have any positive result, simply because they did not bother to make the minimal effort necessary to actually describe what these "game breaking bugs" actually were, how to reproduce them, video of them happening, or ANYTHING WHATSOEVER that might actually aid the human beings looking into fixing said unspecified issues to actually do so.

It comes across more as a wall of complaints without any information that would be useful to addressing them, or even identifying what specifically they were even referring to.

Change is a two way street. If you want to see change, BE change. Make the effort instead of assuming the worst as a justification not to even try. You might be surprised.

So the game is full of bugs, performance is has been deteriorating for years and ZOS has been almost completely silent about these issues...but the real problem is we didn't ask them to fix the game nicely enough?

VaranisArano · September 2021

neferpitou73 wrote: »

WhyMustItBe wrote: »

Artanisul wrote: »

This post really kinda struck me as odd....

This guy seems to be the most polite "complainer" I have seen in years, given the state of the game stopper bugs i found.
Does anyone know you cant complete Clockwork City right now? Because one object is not interactable?....Stuff like that should not take weeks to fix....

Thanks OP for bringing up your concerns.

First of all, when you premise your thread with sarcasm or a persecution complex positing a company in business to make money is possibly chasing their own customers away on purpose out of spite, you set the tone for a shaky conversation from the start. Also the actual content of the OP was heavily edited by the moderators and was not near so "polite" as you imply.

I completely understand wanting to draw attention to any game breaking bugs you might encounter, which exist in all games. Personally I have not have this problem in Clockwork City but I don't doubt the people who say it exists. So, putting in an actual ticket or posting a thread in the bug section that specifically talks about that bug would seem the most likely way to go about actually getting it looked at.

Posting sarcastic and accusatory threads about "game breaking bugs" with no specific details is NOT an effective way to go about drawing attention to or actually solving these things. That was my point, and it stands.

I get the IDEA but the way the OP chose to go about it will not have any positive result, simply because they did not bother to make the minimal effort necessary to actually describe what these "game breaking bugs" actually were, how to reproduce them, video of them happening, or ANYTHING WHATSOEVER that might actually aid the human beings looking into fixing said unspecified issues to actually do so.

It comes across more as a wall of complaints without any information that would be useful to addressing them, or even identifying what specifically they were even referring to.

Change is a two way street. If you want to see change, BE change. Make the effort instead of assuming the worst as a justification not to even try. You might be surprised.

So the game is full of bugs, performance is has been deteriorating for years and ZOS has been almost completely silent about these issues...but the real problem is we didn't ask them to fix the game nicely enough?

It's usually far more helpful to provide specific info on the bug fixes that bother you.

Here's one that bothers me because it breaks the Main Quest of ESO.

"ZOS, one of the recurring bugs that frustrates me is that since you introduced the Elsweyr Prologue Quest, having either "The Demon Weapon" or "The Halls of Colossus" prevents players from starting the Main Quest "The Tharn Speaks."

The solution, as was discovered by players, is to finish or abandon the Prologue Quests. Only then will Abnur Tharn's banekin appear, allowing players to continue the Main Quest.

Devs, this bug happens fairly frequently, judging by the number of times people post about getting stuck on "The Tharn Speaks" on the forums. Moreover, this is the Main Quest of ESO. Clearly, the Main Quest should be more important than the Elsweyr Prologues if you need to change something. Players should not be forced to go to the forums to discover how to fix a bug preventing them from progressing the Main Quest of ESO.

I realize there was an incremental patch to address this back in 2019, but it's still happening. Please fix this, or at least consider how to inform players of what the problem is if you cannot fix it. Perhaps you should consider having an official "Known Issues" note for it somewhere, since this impacts the Main Quest. Or else please ask if ESO Support would consider adding a topic for what to do if you get stuck with "The Tharn Speaks" not starting.

@ZOS_Kevin, thank you for your consideration.

Threads with this issue:
From 2020:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/519199/main-quest-problem
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/543241/main-quest-confusion
From 2021, still bugged: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/468317/how-to-continue-main-quest-problem

_adhyffbjjjf12 · September 2021

Just for the record, i joined beta then left for years specifically due to performance, came back last year and i'm seeing a huge improvement in performance, in part due to optimisations , in part due to a better PC (modest clocked I7) for e.g i get a solid 60fps everywhere including cyrodlil with everything either maxed out or on high. In cyro I used to get 20 with low shadows etc. Considering the increase in game popularity and increase of procs etc, I think the game performance is getting there and levelling off with the likes of GW2.

WhyMustItBe · September 2021

neferpitou73 wrote: »

So the game is full of bugs, performance is has been deteriorating for years and ZOS has been almost completely silent about these issues...but the real problem is we didn't ask them to fix the game nicely enough?

It is A problem, yes. Just because a bank maybe conducted some corrupt trades doesn't make a person in the right to rob them at gunpoint. Two wrongs don't make a right ring a bell?

People are too hung up today on WHO is right that they have forgotten WHAT is right. Maybe it is social media that has conditioned people to be more concerned about hearing themselves speak to "win an argument" than they are with thinking rationally about HOW is best to go about actually solving things.

People would rather fight than fix things. That is the regressive state of our culture. It is appealing, because it is easier, and we are naturally lazy creatures.

If the OP had approached the problem rationally and actually taken the time to describe the SPECIFIC problem, steps to reproduce it, video footage of the circumstance of it occurring, ANYTHING, and had they put in an actual ticket, or posted in the bug forum so the eyes that need to be would see it, that at least would contribute anything constructive to the situation.

Making a sarcastic post without evidence just to complain for the sake of it? That helps nothing. If you cannot see WHY that helps nothing, perhaps you should go back and read some of my previous posts.