Is ZOS trying to annoy players and drive them away?

renne

VaranisArano wrote: »

But really:
TL;DR
The Devs listen, but they don't always do exactly what the playerbase or indeed what any individual player wants. Nor should they.

The number of reported bugs on the PTS - not things that people don't like or don't think that work right - the number of BUGS reported on the PTS that still get pushed through to live content without any kind of acknowledgement kind of disproves this.

Unless you're talking about the playerbase wanting bugs fixed, not pushed into live content unacknowledged (I do recognise it takes time to fix things, but let us know if that is the case) then I guess you're 100% right. The devs don't do what the playerbase wants.

FlopsyPrince

renne wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

But really:
TL;DR
The Devs listen, but they don't always do exactly what the playerbase or indeed what any individual player wants. Nor should they.

The number of reported bugs on the PTS - not things that people don't like or don't think that work right - the number of BUGS reported on the PTS that still get pushed through to live content without any kind of acknowledgement kind of disproves this.

Unless you're talking about the playerbase wanting bugs fixed, not pushed into live content unacknowledged (I do recognise it takes time to fix things, but let us know if that is the case) then I guess you're 100% right. The devs don't do what the playerbase wants.

Exactly.

It may not be true, but this kind of behavior gives the impression they don't care, even for comments on things on the test server. Why even have that if you are going to ignore feedback?

joerginger

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

renne wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

But really:
TL;DR
The Devs listen, but they don't always do exactly what the playerbase or indeed what any individual player wants. Nor should they.

The number of reported bugs on the PTS - not things that people don't like or don't think that work right - the number of BUGS reported on the PTS that still get pushed through to live content without any kind of acknowledgement kind of disproves this.

Unless you're talking about the playerbase wanting bugs fixed, not pushed into live content unacknowledged (I do recognise it takes time to fix things, but let us know if that is the case) then I guess you're 100% right. The devs don't do what the playerbase wants.

Exactly.

It may not be true, but this kind of behavior gives the impression they don't care, even for comments on things on the test server. Why even have that if you are going to ignore feedback?

They need the PTS not for any actual testing, but as a tool for promotion. Streamers can then generate hype for the next thing ZOS is about to release.

EdmondDontes

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

corrosivechains wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Gamerscape2007 wrote: »

Of course, Eso will continue to go on. Idk where you get the thriving part, but it doing good. If it is thriving, Good. You like the game? Awesome. [snip]

The game has grown every year for the past few years and turned it's reputation around from one of the worst MMOs at launch, to one of the best. It's also making plenty of money with people eager to make purchases and items people want to see in the cash shop commonly requested.

You may not like it, but I think most would describe this game as thriving by any metric. [snip]

[edited for baiting & to remove quote]

this is objectively false:

https://mmo-population.com/r/elderscrollsonline/stats

As you can see the game is in a steady decline in player base again. It was climbing for awhile and saw some spikes with new content, but it's back to dropping.

Edit: Also, performance is more than just how much FPS you get while sitting in your personal house. This IS NOT a single-player game.

Something seems off on that page.

Look at the graph near the top of the page.

Then scroll down and look at the list of monthly numbers.

They don't jive with each other.

SilverBride wrote: »

corrosivechains wrote: »

https://mmo-population.com/r/elderscrollsonline/stats

As you can see the game is in a steady decline in player base again. It was climbing for awhile and saw some spikes with new content, but it's back to dropping.

This is the second thread that linked to those stats as proof that ESO is losing players but it actually shows the exact opposite.

You can't pull out a small section of a graph and get an accurate picture. Take a look at the graph from 2016 to today and you see the numbers steadily rising for the past 5 years. You also see normal fluctuations, but the general direction is up.

The numbers in the list below the graph also show a consistent increase in subscribers and active players for the past 5 years.

Except that's not what the graph and the numbers show. The numbers show that the active player base is less than 1/2 today compared to 3 months ago.

This whole discussion has arisen in response to new and recent declines in performance arising on top of the old issues. This is not a discussion about the entire history of player activity in ESO. You keep trying to change the subject.

VaranisArano

joerginger wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

renne wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

But really:
TL;DR
The Devs listen, but they don't always do exactly what the playerbase or indeed what any individual player wants. Nor should they.

The number of reported bugs on the PTS - not things that people don't like or don't think that work right - the number of BUGS reported on the PTS that still get pushed through to live content without any kind of acknowledgement kind of disproves this.

Unless you're talking about the playerbase wanting bugs fixed, not pushed into live content unacknowledged (I do recognise it takes time to fix things, but let us know if that is the case) then I guess you're 100% right. The devs don't do what the playerbase wants.

Exactly.

It may not be true, but this kind of behavior gives the impression they don't care, even for comments on things on the test server. Why even have that if you are going to ignore feedback?

They need the PTS not for any actual testing, but as a tool for promotion. Streamers can then generate hype for the next thing ZOS is about to release.

Which is not entirely true - they do use the PTS for testing as well as hype.

Last time I actively tested was back in Summerset. One of the things I checked out was the spawn rate of the new jewelry nodes and left feedback about it.

While I don't know if ZOS listened to me in particular, but they did increase the spawn rate in a later PTS patch.


We've seen it plenty of times where ZOS tests out an idea on the PTS and then later reverts it. We've also seen plenty of times where players want something reverted, but apparently testing shows something the Devs are okay with going Live (even if they revert it the next patch.)

So no, it's not all about streaming and hype.

SeaGtGruff

corrosivechains wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

corrosivechains wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Gamerscape2007 wrote: »

Of course, Eso will continue to go on. Idk where you get the thriving part, but it doing good. If it is thriving, Good. You like the game? Awesome. [snip]

The game has grown every year for the past few years and turned it's reputation around from one of the worst MMOs at launch, to one of the best. It's also making plenty of money with people eager to make purchases and items people want to see in the cash shop commonly requested.

You may not like it, but I think most would describe this game as thriving by any metric. [snip]

[edited for baiting & to remove quote]

this is objectively false:

https://mmo-population.com/r/elderscrollsonline/stats

As you can see the game is in a steady decline in player base again. It was climbing for awhile and saw some spikes with new content, but it's back to dropping.

Edit: Also, performance is more than just how much FPS you get while sitting in your personal house. This IS NOT a single-player game.

Something seems off on that page.

Look at the graph near the top of the page.

Then scroll down and look at the list of monthly numbers.

They don't jive with each other.

You mean monthly averages?

(1) Nowhere on that list of monthly numbers does the word "averages" appear.

(2) Supposing that it's obvious that those numbers represent averages, and that there is therefore no need to put that word anywhere on that list, let's look at the graph and think about it, taking a specific portion of it as an example.
(2a) The highest portion of that graph is between the two lines labelled "2021-02" and "2021-04." There are three circles-- a bit hard to make out on my iPad, but they're there-- presumably representing the numbers of "Active Players" (according to the heading above the graph) for the months 2021-02, 2021-03, and 2021-04. There are many peaks and valleys on the graph, but that 3-month period represents the highest peak. The graph drops off sharply from the circle for 2021-04 and the circle for 2021-05, rises up a bit to 2021-07, and then drops off steadily after that. But more to the point, 2021-04 is the highest point, and everything after that is lower.
(2b) Now look at the list of numbers below the graph-- the one that says "ACTIVE PLAYERS" above the third column. The list shows that the numbers of both "SUBSCRIBERS" and "ACTIVE PLAYERS" have been steadily growing since 2016-10. More to the point, the numbers for 2021-09 are higher than the numbers for 2021-04.

(3) Hence my comment, "They don't jive with each other."

Jeffrey530

CSose wrote: »

Jeffrey530 wrote: »

Gamerscape2007 wrote: »

Want my advice OP? Do what make you happy. Don't let anyone here tell you, you're wrong, because you're not. Like I said, the people who actually care, are gone, and stopped caring, or banned and didn't bother coming back.

I think you meant those who thought they were mmo experts demanded changes because they bought a few crown packs but did not get the game to be tailored for themselves left. Back in 2014-2015 I saw many who demanded changes and claimed if zos did not follow they would drive customers away and the game would shut down. But hey here we are still up and running after 8 yrs.

Edit Formating

They mean the players that have played since Beta and spent literally thousands of dollars on the game over the years. Myself I'm over $3,500 paid to play this game total. So ya, people like us do expect to be listened to when things aren't working as advertised.

Imagine thinking $3500 is a lot lol spanning over 8 years. Most of us who played for 5-8+ years would have spent similar or even more than that. Tell me again if they haven't listened to you after you pump in billions to get some shares, then I'll feel for you. When I find eso not enjoyable anymore I'll just leave and find another game, I honestly don't understand the ' I need to reveal how much one spent in a game thus the gaming company has to listen to me' logic

Using your logic, McDonalds' burger has never looked like what is being advertised nor is it as tasty as it described in the ads, but yet I keep buying their meals for 8 years and now I am 'qualified' to make any demands and I expect them to listen and respond to me! That just sounds foolish.

EdmondDontes

Jeffrey530 wrote: »

CSose wrote: »

Jeffrey530 wrote: »

Gamerscape2007 wrote: »

Want my advice OP? Do what make you happy. Don't let anyone here tell you, you're wrong, because you're not. Like I said, the people who actually care, are gone, and stopped caring, or banned and didn't bother coming back.

I think you meant those who thought they were mmo experts demanded changes because they bought a few crown packs but did not get the game to be tailored for themselves left. Back in 2014-2015 I saw many who demanded changes and claimed if zos did not follow they would drive customers away and the game would shut down. But hey here we are still up and running after 8 yrs.

Edit Formating

They mean the players that have played since Beta and spent literally thousands of dollars on the game over the years. Myself I'm over $3,500 paid to play this game total. So ya, people like us do expect to be listened to when things aren't working as advertised.

Imagine thinking $3500 is a lot lol spanning over 8 years. Most of us who played for 5-8+ years would have spent similar or even more than that. Tell me again if they haven't listened to you after you pump in billions to get some shares, then I'll feel for you. When I find eso not enjoyable anymore I'll just leave and find another game, I honestly don't understand the ' I need to reveal how much one spent in a game thus the gaming company has to listen to me' logic

Using your logic, McDonalds' burger has never looked like what is being advertised nor is it as tasty as it described in the ads, but yet I keep buying their meals for 8 years and now I am 'qualified' to make any demands and I expect them to listen and respond to me! That just sounds foolish.

I sure hope you come across my business and do some shopping. Nothing I could ever do would upset you even if you spent $5k or more.

FlopsyPrince

joerginger wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

renne wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

But really:
TL;DR
The Devs listen, but they don't always do exactly what the playerbase or indeed what any individual player wants. Nor should they.

The number of reported bugs on the PTS - not things that people don't like or don't think that work right - the number of BUGS reported on the PTS that still get pushed through to live content without any kind of acknowledgement kind of disproves this.

Unless you're talking about the playerbase wanting bugs fixed, not pushed into live content unacknowledged (I do recognise it takes time to fix things, but let us know if that is the case) then I guess you're 100% right. The devs don't do what the playerbase wants.

Exactly.

It may not be true, but this kind of behavior gives the impression they don't care, even for comments on things on the test server. Why even have that if you are going to ignore feedback?

They need the PTS not for any actual testing, but as a tool for promotion. Streamers can then generate hype for the next thing ZOS is about to release.

Then it is not a "Test" server. It is a "promotion" server.

Jeffrey530 wrote: »

CSose wrote: »

Jeffrey530 wrote: »

Gamerscape2007 wrote: »

Want my advice OP? Do what make you happy. Don't let anyone here tell you, you're wrong, because you're not. Like I said, the people who actually care, are gone, and stopped caring, or banned and didn't bother coming back.

I think you meant those who thought they were mmo experts demanded changes because they bought a few crown packs but did not get the game to be tailored for themselves left. Back in 2014-2015 I saw many who demanded changes and claimed if zos did not follow they would drive customers away and the game would shut down. But hey here we are still up and running after 8 yrs.

Edit Formating

They mean the players that have played since Beta and spent literally thousands of dollars on the game over the years. Myself I'm over $3,500 paid to play this game total. So ya, people like us do expect to be listened to when things aren't working as advertised.

Imagine thinking $3500 is a lot lol spanning over 8 years. Most of us who played for 5-8+ years would have spent similar or even more than that. Tell me again if they haven't listened to you after you pump in billions to get some shares, then I'll feel for you. When I find eso not enjoyable anymore I'll just leave and find another game, I honestly don't understand the ' I need to reveal how much one spent in a game thus the gaming company has to listen to me' logic

Using your logic, McDonalds' burger has never looked like what is being advertised nor is it as tasty as it described in the ads, but yet I keep buying their meals for 8 years and now I am 'qualified' to make any demands and I expect them to listen and respond to me! That just sounds foolish.

That is a poor view. Most of us do not have enough money to buy enough shares to make an impact, yet they would have a major problem if their lack of concern for customers caused many to leave. The same would be true of McDonalds, your example. They have clearly made some missteps, but they regularly seek to appeal to their customers. I don't see that in ESO.

EdmondDontes wrote: »

Jeffrey530 wrote: »

CSose wrote: »

Jeffrey530 wrote: »

Gamerscape2007 wrote: »

Want my advice OP? Do what make you happy. Don't let anyone here tell you, you're wrong, because you're not. Like I said, the people who actually care, are gone, and stopped caring, or banned and didn't bother coming back.

I think you meant those who thought they were mmo experts demanded changes because they bought a few crown packs but did not get the game to be tailored for themselves left. Back in 2014-2015 I saw many who demanded changes and claimed if zos did not follow they would drive customers away and the game would shut down. But hey here we are still up and running after 8 yrs.

Edit Formating

They mean the players that have played since Beta and spent literally thousands of dollars on the game over the years. Myself I'm over $3,500 paid to play this game total. So ya, people like us do expect to be listened to when things aren't working as advertised.

Imagine thinking $3500 is a lot lol spanning over 8 years. Most of us who played for 5-8+ years would have spent similar or even more than that. Tell me again if they haven't listened to you after you pump in billions to get some shares, then I'll feel for you. When I find eso not enjoyable anymore I'll just leave and find another game, I honestly don't understand the ' I need to reveal how much one spent in a game thus the gaming company has to listen to me' logic

Using your logic, McDonalds' burger has never looked like what is being advertised nor is it as tasty as it described in the ads, but yet I keep buying their meals for 8 years and now I am 'qualified' to make any demands and I expect them to listen and respond to me! That just sounds foolish.

I sure hope you come across my business and do some shopping. Nothing I could ever do would upset you even if you spent $5k or more.

He obviously doesn't dislike Big Macs and such as much as claimed if he keeps buying them!

SeaGtGruff

joerginger wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

renne wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

But really:
TL;DR
The Devs listen, but they don't always do exactly what the playerbase or indeed what any individual player wants. Nor should they.

The number of reported bugs on the PTS - not things that people don't like or don't think that work right - the number of BUGS reported on the PTS that still get pushed through to live content without any kind of acknowledgement kind of disproves this.

Unless you're talking about the playerbase wanting bugs fixed, not pushed into live content unacknowledged (I do recognise it takes time to fix things, but let us know if that is the case) then I guess you're 100% right. The devs don't do what the playerbase wants.

Exactly.

It may not be true, but this kind of behavior gives the impression they don't care, even for comments on things on the test server. Why even have that if you are going to ignore feedback?

They need the PTS not for any actual testing, but as a tool for promotion. Streamers can then generate hype for the next thing ZOS is about to release.

I think that allowing streamers to stream unreleased content from the PTS is a new-ish thing.

A few years ago, when I got an email inviting me to log in on the PTS, they used to have watermarks all over the screen which, IIRC, had your account name faintly plastered all over the screen, and you had to agree that you wouldn't post any screenshots or video from the PTS, or otherwise reveal any details about gameplay on the PTS. This was back on April 16, 2018, and was for testing the new ESO:Summerset chapter before its launch. Looking back at that email, I see I actually had to redeem an authorization code before being able to access the PTS.

Sometime after that-- I'm not sure when-- they removed the watermarking from the screen and seemingly made it possible for anyone to access the PTS without needing an authorization code-- although I'm not sure about that second part. Presumably there's no longer a need to agree not to divulge anything about gameplay and content on the PTS, since they now let players stream from the PTS-- although I'm not sure about how that works, either.

Jameson18

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

(1) Nowhere on that list of monthly numbers does the word "averages" appear.

(2) Supposing that it's obvious that those numbers represent averages, and that there is therefore no need to put that word anywhere on that list, let's look at the graph and think about it, taking a specific portion of it as an example.
(2a) The highest portion of that graph is between the two lines labelled "2021-02" and "2021-04." There are three circles-- a bit hard to make out on my iPad, but they're there-- presumably representing the numbers of "Active Players" (according to the heading above the graph) for the months 2021-02, 2021-03, and 2021-04. There are many peaks and valleys on the graph, but that 3-month period represents the highest peak. The graph drops off sharply from the circle for 2021-04 and the circle for 2021-05, rises up a bit to 2021-07, and then drops off steadily after that. But more to the point, 2021-04 is the highest point, and everything after that is lower.
(2b) Now look at the list of numbers below the graph-- the one that says "ACTIVE PLAYERS" above the third column. The list shows that the numbers of both "SUBSCRIBERS" and "ACTIVE PLAYERS" have been steadily growing since 2016-10. More to the point, the numbers for 2021-09 are higher than the numbers for 2021-04.

(3) Hence my comment, "They don't jive with each other."

None of which you have highlighted or counterpointed is actually how consumer based reporting works in market categories that are still considered "perishable items and/or purchases". This includes most software and subscription based products.

All the data from Jan-18 @ 10mil vs Jan-21 @ 19mil displays is that they have sold that many chapters and/or first subscription fees. Which also gets bolstered thanks to Covid and people being stuck at home for so long. Most my crew are Covid newbies, for example. Many got the game in 3/20 when things went on lockdown. Which you can see in their own posted trend the uptick in those single sales of 4mil copys/subs in a 1 yr period.

"Active" players and calculations are as simple as someone leaving their subscription active or an account having as little as 1 login per 30 day (or often 28 day) fiscal reporting period.

It doesn't actually mean people are playing the game.

I'm just sharing info about how these things work. Take it or leave it.


Edit: An example - If anyone remembers some years back. WoW claims its growth, from 2mil, to 7mil, to breaking 15mil. All the while shutting down and consolidating servers because those numbers don't actually portray real active logging information.

Even in ESO's case it would be hard to get an "active" count. The shear percentage of people that simply log in to get their dailies/stablemaster/maybe some writs and then log off is pretty unheard of. - I have 6 friends minimum on my list alone that do just this. They'll check out a chapter or DLC, then go back to being inactive.

SeaGtGruff

So you're suggesting that when both the graph and the numerical list on that page use the phrase "active players" to describe what's being graphed and listed, it might be lying? I'm confused. All I did was point out that the values that were graphed don't match up with the values that were listed below. I'm not trying to suggest that either one is bogus or deceptive, merely saying that they don't jive with each other even though they share the same descriptive phrase-- "active players."

SimonThesis

Definitely seems to be no accountability for the bug fixers. We shouldn't have so many bugs in cyrodiil and endgame pve that have been reported for years that still haven't been fixed or even acknowledged to exist.

Jameson18

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

So you're suggesting that when both the graph and the numerical list on that page use the phrase "active players" to describe what's being graphed and listed, it might be lying? I'm confused. All I did was point out that the values that were graphed don't match up with the values that were listed below. I'm not trying to suggest that either one is bogus or deceptive, merely saying that they don't jive with each other even though they share the same descriptive phrase-- "active players."

Nah, what I'm simply detailing is that every product classified in a similar nature can and will always post or portray growth in numbers when within the ruleset or bilaws in which they are given to work. Which, I apologize, I should have also noted, then lends to explaining the "why" in many cases due to sub categorization in reporting, that the numbers don't, and won't ever, match up.

In summary - Here's why they can/will say they're numbers have grown. Here's also why they don't match up on any remotely official consumer market report or even internal reports submitted publicly. It's a combination of what they're allowed to do and what they're entering in systemically in order to do it.

proteinexe

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Many things in the game push players away from the game:

- Inflexible handling of many in game issues.
[snip]
- Not fixing long-term bugs.
- Not adding small and obvious quality of life issues. (Such as multi-fillet).

Yes, the obvious reply that will come is to stop playing, but that doesn't mean it is good to continually poke at the players and those involved with this forum.

Does any MMO provider really listen to its players? Not doing everything they want of course, but listening to them in a clear and relevant manner?

[Edited for Discussion of Moderation Action]

It’s not a stop playing, it’s a ‘you dont know what’s happening behind the scenes’. They are probably trying to fix things, and it’s infuriating having an issue which isn't solved, but it’s a gigantic game and they’re team realistically isn't that big.

Kidgangster101

proteinexe wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Many things in the game push players away from the game:

- Inflexible handling of many in game issues.
[snip]
- Not fixing long-term bugs.
- Not adding small and obvious quality of life issues. (Such as multi-fillet).

Yes, the obvious reply that will come is to stop playing, but that doesn't mean it is good to continually poke at the players and those involved with this forum.

Does any MMO provider really listen to its players? Not doing everything they want of course, but listening to them in a clear and relevant manner?

[Edited for Discussion of Moderation Action]

It’s not a stop playing, it’s a ‘you dont know what’s happening behind the scenes’. They are probably trying to fix things, and it’s infuriating having an issue which isn't solved, but it’s a gigantic game and they’re team realistically isn't that big.

But you do know what's happening behind the scenes...... They have shown you over and over again. They have no problem pushing out new content you need to buy. That is time they could spend fixing these bugs. They could easily skip 1 cycle of new content and fix a lot of bugs that have been in game since day 1........

They also release broken stuff with their new content as well. Necro was released with moves being bugged for literally 9 months before they got fixed. Pts notes reported it over and over again and it was ignored but still released.

So yes it falls right on them as a company and they show you what they are focused on. They make sure if the store goes down or has a bug that the server is shut down and it is fixed, why not the rush to do it with other bugs/glitches? Don't worry that $100 house will be there for you to buy! Sure a dungeon might have you get stuck in a wall..... But who cares right?

SimonThesis

I also wish bugs wouldn't take years to get fixed and I wish the company acknowledged their existence before they had a fix ready to go.

FlopsyPrince

proteinexe wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Many things in the game push players away from the game:

- Inflexible handling of many in game issues.
[snip]
- Not fixing long-term bugs.
- Not adding small and obvious quality of life issues. (Such as multi-fillet).

Yes, the obvious reply that will come is to stop playing, but that doesn't mean it is good to continually poke at the players and those involved with this forum.

Does any MMO provider really listen to its players? Not doing everything they want of course, but listening to them in a clear and relevant manner?

[Edited for Discussion of Moderation Action]

It’s not a stop playing, it’s a ‘you dont know what’s happening behind the scenes’. They are probably trying to fix things, and it’s infuriating having an issue which isn't solved, but it’s a gigantic game and they’re team realistically isn't that big.

No, some bugs would be very simple to fix and have not been. Too many examples to list.

=====

[snip]
[edited for discussing moderation action]

Hlaaluna

I've been playing on an off since 2014 but there has never been any incident that made me consider leaving the game. Sure, some things have bugged me mightily and my interest waxes and wanes at times, but yeah I am still here and expect to be here for a good while longer.

tmbrinks

I am wondering if/hoping we'll get an update on this considering the massive amounts of QoL updates that ZoS just covered in their ESO Live stream today.

kargen27

Jameson18 wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

(1) Nowhere on that list of monthly numbers does the word "averages" appear.

(2) Supposing that it's obvious that those numbers represent averages, and that there is therefore no need to put that word anywhere on that list, let's look at the graph and think about it, taking a specific portion of it as an example.
(2a) The highest portion of that graph is between the two lines labelled "2021-02" and "2021-04." There are three circles-- a bit hard to make out on my iPad, but they're there-- presumably representing the numbers of "Active Players" (according to the heading above the graph) for the months 2021-02, 2021-03, and 2021-04. There are many peaks and valleys on the graph, but that 3-month period represents the highest peak. The graph drops off sharply from the circle for 2021-04 and the circle for 2021-05, rises up a bit to 2021-07, and then drops off steadily after that. But more to the point, 2021-04 is the highest point, and everything after that is lower.
(2b) Now look at the list of numbers below the graph-- the one that says "ACTIVE PLAYERS" above the third column. The list shows that the numbers of both "SUBSCRIBERS" and "ACTIVE PLAYERS" have been steadily growing since 2016-10. More to the point, the numbers for 2021-09 are higher than the numbers for 2021-04.

(3) Hence my comment, "They don't jive with each other."

None of which you have highlighted or counterpointed is actually how consumer based reporting works in market categories that are still considered "perishable items and/or purchases". This includes most software and subscription based products.

All the data from Jan-18 @ 10mil vs Jan-21 @ 19mil displays is that they have sold that many chapters and/or first subscription fees. Which also gets bolstered thanks to Covid and people being stuck at home for so long. Most my crew are Covid newbies, for example. Many got the game in 3/20 when things went on lockdown. Which you can see in their own posted trend the uptick in those single sales of 4mil copys/subs in a 1 yr period.

"Active" players and calculations are as simple as someone leaving their subscription active or an account having as little as 1 login per 30 day (or often 28 day) fiscal reporting period.

It doesn't actually mean people are playing the game.

I'm just sharing info about how these things work. Take it or leave it.


Edit: An example - If anyone remembers some years back. WoW claims its growth, from 2mil, to 7mil, to breaking 15mil. All the while shutting down and consolidating servers because those numbers don't actually portray real active logging information.

Even in ESO's case it would be hard to get an "active" count. The shear percentage of people that simply log in to get their dailies/stablemaster/maybe some writs and then log off is pretty unheard of. - I have 6 friends minimum on my list alone that do just this. They'll check out a chapter or DLC, then go back to being inactive.

An increase in subscriptions and decrease in active players can be attributed to several things but a couple in particular are probable. There is a poll here about player age. I know forums are not representative of the game but let's say they kind of are just for fun. We have a lot of college age people playing the game. Going back to school maybe they shelve the game for a while but their sub is still active. Another thing to consider is the backside of what you mentioned with people subbing because of Covid. Now we get to go out and play again. So maybe the game is taking a back seat to concerts and movies? What we are seeing could be a one month anomaly. Numbers are going to have to continue down for a few more months before we can start talking trend.
On your other point, logging in just for the dailies, I have a friend with ten accounts. He stores gear on those accounts and as new people come into the guild he will give them any gear they need. He might only log into an account a couple of times a month so is that active? Will also add with the sticker book he hasn't had to provide gear for others like he used to so he might not have been logging onto all those accounts now.
The active numbers have dropped the past month but there is no way we can assign that decline to the game becoming less popular just by looking at the lines on a graph.

hands0medevil

not all the players, just some players... if you know what I mean

VaranisArano

tmbrinks wrote: »

I am wondering if/hoping we'll get an update on this considering the massive amounts of QoL updates that ZoS just covered in their ESO Live stream today.

Sure we're getting the armory system to let us swap between two builds on the same character, like my PVP healer and PVE tank...but did we get Multi-fillet?



All joking aside, the armory system is a great example of ZOS taking addon functionalities and making them part of the base game.

tmbrinks

VaranisArano wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

I am wondering if/hoping we'll get an update on this considering the massive amounts of QoL updates that ZoS just covered in their ESO Live stream today.

Sure we're getting the armory system to let us swap between two builds on the same character, like my PVP healer and PVE tank...but did we get Multi-fillet?



All joking aside, the armory system is a great example of ZOS taking addon functionalities and making them part of the base game.

I'm more excited for the curated drops for stickerbook... what an absolutely monumental change in "grind" for those that have some poor RNG w/ drops

Psiion

Greetings,

As we have had to remove and edit a few posts, we would like to remind everyone that Discussing Disciplinary Actions both from In-Game, and on the Forums, is against the Forum's Community Rules. If you have questions or concerned over an action taken on the Forums, feel free to reach out to a moderator, or submit a ticket to the Support team here.

Moving forward, please keep discussion within the Community Rules.

FlopsyPrince

ZOS_KageW wrote: »

Greetings,

As we have had to remove and edit a few posts, we would like to remind everyone that Discussing Disciplinary Actions both from In-Game, and on the Forums, is against the Forum's Community Rules. If you have questions or concerned over an action taken on the Forums, feel free to reach out to a moderator, or submit a ticket to the Support team here.

Moving forward, please keep discussion within the Community Rules.

You will not get an answer with either approach.

SimonThesis

That is true! Every time I've contacted customer support I've had a bad experience. I emailed them about the status of my bug report with my ticket number and they first sent me a solution to a different problem than the one I reported and then they could not tell me if my ticket had been received or not.

Customer support's exact words were "We appreciate you providing Feedback regarding this issue. Please be aware that Feedback may be provided to the Development Team but does not receive a response. Our forum page and social media sites are the best way to get up- to- date information on patches and bug fixes."

There seems to be no way to tell if our tickets have even been received let alone looked at. Why should we keep sending in bug reports if they're not getting fixed and there's no way to tell if they have even been looked at or not? @ZOS_GinaBruno

Ps. We should not be forced to turn into Karens in order for us to get our bugs fixed.

aussie500

ZOS has been doing their best to drive players away for years, they do not seem to be doing that good a job of it, they are always open to new ways to try though.

I have been waiting 4 odd years to get all the books in the game on my main character, but they just keep adding more bugged books, or just removing a quest reward book completely from the game in order to prevent you getting all of them. How many years did we have to wait for them to make it possible to get all the Cyrodill books, such a simple thing it seems was impossible to fix? And then they go bananas and add yet another book we cannot all get. I do not see that AD lot inviting our EP and DC characters all over to the local Inn at their home base so we can catch up on the latest book. What were they thinking when they made it an AD exclusive?

My main character got removed from use 3 times due to bugs, first time she was my only character, I was not happy waiting weeks for her to be released from Coldharbor, it was a close call, rage quit ESO or create a new character I did not want. The third time she was returned she was never the same again, I think ZOS lost her for good and gave me a pale imitation back. Certainly the stamina nerf that came after that terminated any plans of her being an effective stamina nightblade, I have given up chasing DPS, no matter what I come up with, they will nerf it.

My characters these days just seem to struggle to even draw their weapons before their first skill dies unused. The bow users just forget by the time they knock that arrow, what they were using the bow for. It looks good, but is annoying. I have no idea what the staff users are up to with all their fancy moves, what happened to point and SHOOT! No need to juggle the thing behind their back!

Well at least my characters usually no long fall through the scenery into never never land so easily. A couple of times in the last week an NPC pushed them out of the game world, a few days ago I got ripped off the enchanting table as I was innocently doing my writs and embedded in a wall, getting out of that dropped my character through the floor, the water and right into never never land, there was no way to get back into the real world. Just travel to someone on the guild list so you can finish your writs, nothing to worry about.

I am a pro these days, no invisible weapons for me, they never actually seemed to fix that glitch, they just expect us to work around the problem of not being sure what invisible weapons you were currently armed with, if you could see under your feet to see the visible but not equipped weapon you would know. Why is it so hard just to allow us to see the weapons?

They fixed most of the glitches with the mounts, not all of them but it is rare these days to run on top of your mount, underneath it or just run along the ground with no mount visible. THE ESO circus acts are not as frequent. These days they are more likely to just tell you you cannot mount at all, despite being in a place you are pretty sure you can use mounts, you will eventually get your mount to appear, might be a bit of steam coming out of the ears by then, but just keep trying

Cyrodill, or was that SillyDill strange land of mystery where you will be lucky sometimes to get anything to work, they adjust something you can forget about ever using it again. A bugfest to try the patience of a saint, I try to avoid the place since I am usually dead before I even know I am under attack. The Aussie lag I blame for that.

There are many many bugs in the game, most I have forgotten, best that way. Many bugs will never be fixed, many they will not even try to fix, seems standard for any ESO game, just do not expect you will ever be without those essential bugs to try and drive us nuts.

There are many good reasons to play ESO, the bugs are not one of them. Recently I cannot even send a bug report ingame, they just seem to have greyed out the submit option, must be getting sick of us reporting too many bugs!

Malprave

corrosivechains wrote: »

MS should probably take a pretty hard look at this company and clean things up a bit from the ground up.

[snip]

[Edited for Discussion of Moderation Action]

So you figure the giant multinational corporation getting involved and meddling with Zenimax and the game directly is going to be an improvement?

Lmao!

FlopsyPrince

aussie500 wrote: »

ZOS has been doing their best to drive players away for years, they do not seem to be doing that good a job of it, they are always open to new ways to try though.

I have been waiting 4 odd years to get all the books in the game on my main character, but they just keep adding more bugged books, or just removing a quest reward book completely from the game in order to prevent you getting all of them. How many years did we have to wait for them to make it possible to get all the Cyrodill books, such a simple thing it seems was impossible to fix? And then they go bananas and add yet another book we cannot all get. I do not see that AD lot inviting our EP and DC characters all over to the local Inn at their home base so we can catch up on the latest book. What were they thinking when they made it an AD exclusive?

Maybe they were making up for the fact that pathing for quests in IC route through another alliance's base for AD!

No quest indicators on the ladders for AD. Got to throw a bone here and there, better than fixing bugs!