SilverBride wrote: »
No, you can't. If you continue to stand in red and not move or dodge, you will suffer consequences.
If a player stands in red in overland they are likely to stand in red in veteran overland. Just making the mob stronger doesn't automatically make the player wiser.
SilverBride wrote: »Thechuckage wrote: »Are you familiar with the Heroes Journey narrative? (For anyone not familiar) It is extremely common in writing and story telling. And not in the modern sense. This predates (AFAIK) Greek and other ancient civilizations. The Hero must overcome some obstacle, trial, enemy what have you. Regardless of how powerful the hero is, the struggle remains.
Hercules( a demigod for cripes sake) taking on the 7 tasks which challenged him greatly. John Henry literally killing himself to beat a drilling machine. Spiderman going from weak nerd to superpowers and learning to control them, himself and take on new responsibilities. The common thread is they all have to work to succeed.
Now if you specifically SilverBride enjoy just being super OP. Fine, but the centuries of story telling has shown people like the hero to work for their success. Not have it handed to them.
That is all interesting from a story telling perspective, but it doesn't carry over to ESO. It's apples and oranges.
There is not enough interest in veteran overland to justify something that very few players would ever use. And since so few would be using it, it would soon become a ghost town. No one will be able to progress in a veteran difficulty overland with no one to group with for world bosses and harrowstorms and dragons etc.. And there would be no way you could solo them. Pretty soon everyone would be gone.
All that time and work for nothing.
Thechuckage wrote: »I find it funny that this thread is arguing for a harder overland, saying how so many players find it too easy. And that they want more complex overland mobs.
Yet at the same time there is another thread arguing that overland mobs have too many annoying abilities, in this case snares.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/570105/remove-all-snares-from-the-game#latest
And that mobs should no longer have snares. AND that thread’s OP has more likes then this one.
So we have two threads asking for overland to go in two different directions in terms of difficulty, and the one asking for easier overland is more popular.
Personally I don’t think it should be more difficult, AND I think the amount of snares mobs have currently is appropriate.
You mean there are multiple view points? Say it isn't so!
You have demonstrated three in your single post. Could you demonstrate a time when there has been a mass consensus for a feature or direction for the game to move? You'll pardon me if I don't hold my breath.
Yes. That the green CP tree have less slottable passives.
SilverBride wrote: »Thechuckage wrote: »@SilverBride Stories need weight. If the hero never has to struggle, never has to overcome challenges then it is a poor story. "Going to save the world from an evil god" loses all meaning when the difficulty curve makes the Great Plains look mountainous by comparison.
I don't need to struggle to enjoy the story. In fact I find the opposite to be true. I can only believe I am really a hero if I am strong enough to crush my enemies.
The story is fine just as it is.
Thechuckage wrote: »I find it funny that this thread is arguing for a harder overland, saying how so many players find it too easy. And that they want more complex overland mobs.
Yet at the same time there is another thread arguing that overland mobs have too many annoying abilities, in this case snares.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/570105/remove-all-snares-from-the-game#latest
And that mobs should no longer have snares. AND that thread’s OP has more likes then this one.
So we have two threads asking for overland to go in two different directions in terms of difficulty, and the one asking for easier overland is more popular.
Personally I don’t think it should be more difficult, AND I think the amount of snares mobs have currently is appropriate.
You mean there are multiple view points? Say it isn't so!
You have demonstrated three in your single post. Could you demonstrate a time when there has been a mass consensus for a feature or direction for the game to move? You'll pardon me if I don't hold my breath.
Yes. That the green CP tree have less slottable passives.
Thechuckage wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »Thechuckage wrote: »Are you familiar with the Heroes Journey narrative? (For anyone not familiar) It is extremely common in writing and story telling. And not in the modern sense. This predates (AFAIK) Greek and other ancient civilizations. The Hero must overcome some obstacle, trial, enemy what have you. Regardless of how powerful the hero is, the struggle remains.
Hercules( a demigod for cripes sake) taking on the 7 tasks which challenged him greatly. John Henry literally killing himself to beat a drilling machine. Spiderman going from weak nerd to superpowers and learning to control them, himself and take on new responsibilities. The common thread is they all have to work to succeed.
Now if you specifically SilverBride enjoy just being super OP. Fine, but the centuries of story telling has shown people like the hero to work for their success. Not have it handed to them.
That is all interesting from a story telling perspective, but it doesn't carry over to ESO. It's apples and oranges.
There is not enough interest in veteran overland to justify something that very few players would ever use. And since so few would be using it, it would soon become a ghost town. No one will be able to progress in a veteran difficulty overland with no one to group with for world bosses and harrowstorms and dragons etc.. And there would be no way you could solo them. Pretty soon everyone would be gone.
All that time and work for nothing.
Considering that the story is the crux of your argument, I'd say carries over. The story falls flat without the struggle.
Everything else is simply baseless assertions.
It's so comforting to know that even in these uncertain times, there will always be a thread on the front page asking for higher difficulty overland.
Keep it up, never stop dreaming! Maybe one day. ZOS will actually listen.
ZOS_MattF
Hello! We have no plans on implementing spears, but we have talked off and on about cool ways to do the one hand magic/one hand weapon thing. That's not on our roadmap anywhere, but we have been brainstorming.
There are so many cool things we could do! Seriously, we love these ideas too, but it all comes down to a matter of time and priorities.
EDIT: to respond to your edit. Yes, we've talked about this, in fact we tried to get that into the game as part of One Tamriel, but we just couldn't get it done. So we have ideas on how to have difficulty settings for overland content, but it's not currently planned. It's a great idea.
Hallothiel wrote: »It’s all about why you play the game. I like to do many things, from questing to housing to (attempting) vet trials; others I know do not quest but head straight to end game, dummy humping their dps to the max and knocking off trial achievements as that is what they enjoy.
But if you look at the game achievements on PlayStation, for instance, you would see that only a miniscule fraction of the player base has completed harder things; it is probably similar on xbox & even pc. Which suggests that it is a very small amount if players that want things harder.
SilverBride wrote: »Hallothiel wrote: »It’s all about why you play the game. I like to do many things, from questing to housing to (attempting) vet trials; others I know do not quest but head straight to end game, dummy humping their dps to the max and knocking off trial achievements as that is what they enjoy.
But if you look at the game achievements on PlayStation, for instance, you would see that only a miniscule fraction of the player base has completed harder things; it is probably similar on xbox & even pc. Which suggests that it is a very small amount if players that want things harder.
I couldn't agree more. This is one of the biggest reasons veteran overland is not feasible. There just aren't enough players who would actually use it to make it worth the cost.
what the developers had to say
From Reddit over 1 year ago
Link: https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/bwdb0r/comment/epwrb9x
"Yes, we've talked about this, in fact we tried to get that into the game as part of One Tamriel, but we just couldn't get it done. So we have ideas on how to have difficulty settings for overland content, but it's not currently planned. It's a great idea."
Then it shouldn’t be a problem if it was just the Main Story that got a Normal/Veteran setting for Boss encounters - since those are such a small part of the game.
Jeffrey530 wrote: »
SilverBride wrote: »
No one can be sure. But I do know they need a good reason and/or a wide audience wanting any change before they would consider it. There is neither with this request.
Hallothiel wrote: »But if you look at the game achievements on PlayStation, for instance, you would see that only a miniscule fraction of the player base has completed harder things; it is probably similar on xbox & even pc. Which suggests that it is a very small amount if players that want things harder.
SilverBride wrote: »what the developers had to say
From Reddit over 1 year ago
Link: https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/bwdb0r/comment/epwrb9x
"Yes, we've talked about this, in fact we tried to get that into the game as part of One Tamriel, but we just couldn't get it done. So we have ideas on how to have difficulty settings for overland content, but it's not currently planned. It's a great idea."
Elder Scrolls Online changed into "One Tamriel" mode in October 2016. That was almost 5 years ago. I seriously doubt it's a priority today, and in their own words "it's not currently planned".Then it shouldn’t be a problem if it was just the Main Story that got a Normal/Veteran setting for Boss encounters - since those are such a small part of the game.
Absolutely. I already agreed in another thread that it would be reasonable to implement a way to choose the difficulty of the quest bosses, with a scroll as was suggested, or some other means.
(As long as the boss fights were just once per character and not repeatable as had been proposed previously in another thread. Keeping the story intact would be a priority, and putting these bosses on farm would break immersion.)
This way wouldn't require a total rework of overland, but would still provide those who wish with a more challenging quest boss experience.
On this one thing... I think we agree.
martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »Why not let the Devs decide what is achievable rather than being "opposed" to your fellow gamers asking for something that would make their game play enjoyable again?
In other games this has been easily dealt with by using a debuff item.
I'm sure it is well within the Devs capabilities to develop the game with economies of scale in mind.
martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »My opposition to this idea has nothing to do with denying anyone something they would enjoy. It is just not feasible to put the time and manpower and resources into changing overland into something it was never intended to be. Especially since it would not be widely used.
Why not let the Devs decide what is achievable rather than being "opposed" to your fellow gamers asking for something that would make their game play enjoyable again?
In other games this has been easily dealt with by using a debuff item.
I'm sure it is well within the Devs capabilities to develop the game with economies of scale in mind.
The Scroll would be a half measure. At best.
1. ZOS does not invest time into developing interesting and engaging mechanics for fights that are not repeatable. Even Scrolls are only used for repeatable content.
2. An activity being repeatable is not nearly as immersion breaking as a boss being hyped up over the course of a storyline, or even up to a year, and presents no challenge or threat in gameplay.
As for splitting the player base, there is definitely a difference between what we are proposing which would split the player base only once as compared to the old system which split the player-base 9 different ways
So I'll ask the same question that I ask in every one of these threads, and will continue to ask, what happens when you master this vet level? Ask Zos for another? And another? And another?
You see this question has been posed by several different people, yet continually gets ignored. Oh they'll continually respond to the same lame suggestion of going naked over and over, that's an easy one to dismiss.
However, in their zeal to continually bash this suggestion, they've exposed their real issue, it's not the gear making the game easy, it's their gained knowledge of how the game works, which will never go away. It's probably burned into muscle memory like the rest of us vets.
So again, what happens when you're master of this new vet zone let's say 2 months after release? Is Zos now obligated to update/upgrade/release a vet version every other month?
What gets cut from the fixed budget to compensate for this new workload?
Edit- Scroll idea for story bosses is excellent. Even for overland, as long as players know it simply buffs the boss, not add in new mechanics. Someone who knows more correct me, but if they could do that, why not have that already in game for the bosses we have in the 2 different versions of dungeons <Real question, no trolling.
Thechuckage wrote: »Something I think we could agree on - lower the population of enemies running around overland. I would prefer them to be replaced with weightier enemies, but not having a pack of wolves or a bandit gang every few hundred feet would make things nicer.
SilverBride wrote: »The Scroll would be a half measure. At best.
1. ZOS does not invest time into developing interesting and engaging mechanics for fights that are not repeatable. Even Scrolls are only used for repeatable content.
2. An activity being repeatable is not nearly as immersion breaking as a boss being hyped up over the course of a storyline, or even up to a year, and presents no challenge or threat in gameplay.
And where is the proof that ZoS doesn't put time into developing mechanics for one time fights?
If the true issue is boredom, and the quest bosses anticlimactic, a scroll would provide a solution. But putting quest bosses on farm would completely break immersion. You beat the boss... the story is complete.
SilverBride wrote: »And where is the proof that ZoS doesn't put time into developing mechanics for one time fights?
- Mannimarco
- Barbas
- Shadow of Sotha Sil
- Nocturnal's Champion
- Kassandra
- Zunmog Phoom
- Mulaamnir
- Ra'khajin
- Laatvulon
- Kaalgrontiid
- High King Svargim
- Lady Belain
- Rada al-Saran
All bosses that had great set up but whose fights were a big let-down with their bare minimum mechanics & lack of ability to deal any real damage.
Edit: If that was not the case then these threads would not be as common as they are.
Thechuckage wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »Thechuckage wrote: »@SilverBride Stories need weight. If the hero never has to struggle, never has to overcome challenges then it is a poor story. "Going to save the world from an evil god" loses all meaning when the difficulty curve makes the Great Plains look mountainous by comparison.
I don't need to struggle to enjoy the story. In fact I find the opposite to be true. I can only believe I am really a hero if I am strong enough to crush my enemies.
The story is fine just as it is.
Are you familiar with the Heroes Journey narrative? (For anyone not familiar) It is extremely common in writing and story telling. And not in the modern sense. This predates (AFAIK) Greek and other ancient civilizations. The Hero must overcome some obstacle, trial, enemy what have you. Regardless of how powerful the hero is, the struggle remains.
Hercules( a demigod for cripes sake) taking on the 7 tasks which challenged him greatly. John Henry literally killing himself to beat a drilling machine. Spiderman going from weak nerd to superpowers and learning to control them, himself and take on new responsibilities. The common thread is they all have to work to succeed.
Now if you specifically SilverBride enjoy just being super OP. Fine, but the centuries of story telling has shown people like the hero to work for their success. Not have it handed to them.
Jeffrey530 wrote: »
Honestly this is so outdated. Popular ( especially) asian novels/ tv shows/anime these days are all about a new genre- insanely powerful protagonists right from the star. People don't care about progression or work to succeed anymore, it is simply about how the protagonist can crush enemies instantly, show off their power in different ways. You may not like it, but it is a fact that this genre is one of the most popular in Japan/korea/china at this moment.
SilverBride wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »And where is the proof that ZoS doesn't put time into developing mechanics for one time fights?
- Mannimarco
- Barbas
- Shadow of Sotha Sil
- Nocturnal's Champion
- Kassandra
- Zunmog Phoom
- Mulaamnir
- Ra'khajin
- Laatvulon
- Kaalgrontiid
- High King Svargim
- Lady Belain
- Rada al-Saran
All bosses that had great set up but whose fights were a big let-down with their bare minimum mechanics & lack of ability to deal any real damage.
Edit: If that was not the case then these threads would not be as common as they are.
Difficulty is subjective, and our perceptions of how challenging something is, or isnt, in no way indicates how much time ZoS put into developing mechanics.
It is very common for threads on the same subject to pop up multiple times. If a proposal garnered sufficient support the first time it was presented, there would be no need for further threads on the same subject.
I don't need to struggle to enjoy the story. In fact I find the opposite to be true. I can only believe I am really a hero if I am strong enough to crush my enemies.
The story is fine just as it is.