Normal and Veteran Overland

Sahidom

HalfRain216 wrote: »

The world would be empty on Xbox NA if that was the case.

They could place the toggle in gameplay settings that requires reboot of client to resync with server for the increased difficulty.

Rebel_Rose

I do tend to agree the overland game is too easy for veterans, a harder or veteran overland instance would be most welcome.

HalfRain216

Daraklus wrote: »

HalfRain216 wrote: »

I’m sorry but I believe you are in a minority like most in this forum.
I also went into craglorn with my girlfriend the other night CP200 & CP 500 and it is definitely harder than normal overland especially the delves. The mobs are stronger and if we’re not paying attention doing rotations we would easily die. To say you can just heavy attack through it is untrue.

I’m not against vet overland but normal overland is pretty difficult to most players in the harder areas. I can guarantee most players can not solo any world boss without dying a few times if it all.

It seems like people are pretty split down the middle when it comes to the Overland. I highly doubt I am in "The minority".

The only places that jolt us awake are the Group Delves and the Group Quests, where the enemies do actually pose a threat and aren't pushovers. If you and your girlfriend are having a hard time, then you're likely in one of those areas.

Because as we're doing the main quest, it takes us in to the regular delves, and I can tell you that they are truly mind-numbingly easy. Even the story bosses are complete pushovers. We just killed Progenitor Mantikorat in two seconds, didn't even need to do a full rotation, and that was supposed to be a big scary monster.

"Most players can't solo world bosses!"
Really? It's almost like World Bosses are intended to be tackled by a group of players, rather than a solo. Akin to how other MMO games have world events that have bosses that need more than one player to tackle.

ESO is the only game that requires me to make myself a cup of coffee (And I hate coffee), while making my girlfriend lean against me to go to sleep. I'm pretty sure there is a flaw in the game's design if it makes people fall asleep.

Really, if there were a Veteran Overland setting, that made enemies be a bit more of a threat by upping their damage output, making them not be complete pushovers, I would be a very happy man indeed.

On the forums yes it is split down the middle but I think the amount of people who frequent the forums would easily be under 10% of the actual player base just a guess.

You are right about main story quests and zone quests the bosses are easy.
Everyone has different tastes when it comes to the game but in my experience by the time the story boss rolls around I’ve already been running back and forth between towns talking to 10 different npcs I just want him to die already so I can get my skill point get out and do something fun.

If there was this big difficult battle at the end that a lot of players would struggle with or die many times they just wouldn’t get completed.
In saying that I couldn’t see why the actual main quest and not zone story couldn’t have a vet option as it’s solo anyways.

In regards to your world bosses comment I don’t understand what your saying at all not sure if it was a bit of sarcasm or not and I haven’t played other mmos to know but what you want by the sounds of it is harder bosses in quests which is different to what it seems most on here want which is a harder overall overland because they can take out world bosses in a few shots with there eyes closed apparently.

Yes it was craglorn group delves.

We did dragonstar arena duo the other day and it was a thrill died a lot but was really fun and we made it through after a hour or so.

It’s just nostalgia bro like when you use to play a game as a kid it was exciting, you go do it now and after 5 minutes your over it.

You miss the feeling off when you were still learning to play the game it was new and everything is exciting and hard. Doesn’t matter how hard you make it the feels are gone you just have to accept and move on.

Iccotak

HalfRain216 wrote: »

Daraklus wrote: »

HalfRain216 wrote: »

I’m sorry but I believe you are in a minority like most in this forum.
I also went into craglorn with my girlfriend the other night CP200 & CP 500 and it is definitely harder than normal overland especially the delves. The mobs are stronger and if we’re not paying attention doing rotations we would easily die. To say you can just heavy attack through it is untrue.

I’m not against vet overland but normal overland is pretty difficult to most players in the harder areas. I can guarantee most players can not solo any world boss without dying a few times if it all.

It seems like people are pretty split down the middle when it comes to the Overland. I highly doubt I am in "The minority".

The only places that jolt us awake are the Group Delves and the Group Quests, where the enemies do actually pose a threat and aren't pushovers. If you and your girlfriend are having a hard time, then you're likely in one of those areas.

Because as we're doing the main quest, it takes us in to the regular delves, and I can tell you that they are truly mind-numbingly easy. Even the story bosses are complete pushovers. We just killed Progenitor Mantikorat in two seconds, didn't even need to do a full rotation, and that was supposed to be a big scary monster.

"Most players can't solo world bosses!"
Really? It's almost like World Bosses are intended to be tackled by a group of players, rather than a solo. Akin to how other MMO games have world events that have bosses that need more than one player to tackle.

ESO is the only game that requires me to make myself a cup of coffee (And I hate coffee), while making my girlfriend lean against me to go to sleep. I'm pretty sure there is a flaw in the game's design if it makes people fall asleep.

Really, if there were a Veteran Overland setting, that made enemies be a bit more of a threat by upping their damage output, making them not be complete pushovers, I would be a very happy man indeed.

On the forums yes it is split down the middle but I think the amount of people who frequent the forums would easily be under 10% of the actual player base just a guess.

You are right about main story quests and zone quests the bosses are easy.
Everyone has different tastes when it comes to the game but in my experience by the time the story boss rolls around I’ve already been running back and forth between towns talking to 10 different npcs I just want him to die already so I can get my skill point get out and do something fun.

If there was this big difficult battle at the end that a lot of players would struggle with or die many times they just wouldn’t get completed.
In saying that I couldn’t see why the actual main quest and not zone story couldn’t have a vet option as it’s solo anyways.

In regards to your world bosses comment I don’t understand what your saying at all not sure if it was a bit of sarcasm or not and I haven’t played other mmos to know but what you want by the sounds of it is harder bosses in quests which is different to what it seems most on here want which is a harder overall overland because they can take out world bosses in a few shots with there eyes closed apparently.

Yes it was craglorn group delves.

We did dragonstar arena duo the other day and it was a thrill died a lot but was really fun and we made it through after a hour or so.

It’s just nostalgia bro like when you use to play a game as a kid it was exciting, you go do it now and after 5 minutes your over it.

You miss the feeling off when you were still learning to play the game it was new and everything is exciting and hard. Doesn’t matter how hard you make it the feels are gone you just have to accept and move on.

Here's the thing though - this criticism is not just made by long time players. This is also a point of criticism made by people getting into the game. This was actually something my IRL friends told me when they got into the game. This is pretty common critique of the game in other online communities like Reddit, Discord, Steam, and Youtube. So I disagree with the "10%" assertion.

While the point you made about nostalgia may be one variable - it certainly is not the root cause of the issue nor does it account for everything.

The point @Daraklus made about Overland is that there is a difference between a group activity like a Dolmen & World Boss as opposed to the rest of Overland which is something a player can do solo.

The Solo questing experience is what they are directly criticizing because they, as well as others, find the overall questing experience not fun primarily due to the gameplay. The writing is fine but gameplay does not keep us engaged.

Story bosses are one aspect, they are the destination that we would like to be worth the journey - but the overland also matters because it is most of the journey. It is not a matter of one or the other, they both need work. We simply cannot get into a story that is a breeze to beat. This is an Action mmorpg, not a point & click adventure.

What people here are asking for is that both the Destination & the Journey be fun for more than just the very new or very casual player. It is the majority of the story content in an Action mmorpg, they could certainly make the combat more enjoyable for those that made the criticism. Especially when considering the hundreds of hours of questing content there is in ESO.

HalfRain216

Iccotak wrote: »

HalfRain216 wrote: »

Daraklus wrote: »

HalfRain216 wrote: »

I’m sorry but I believe you are in a minority like most in this forum.
I also went into craglorn with my girlfriend the other night CP200 & CP 500 and it is definitely harder than normal overland especially the delves. The mobs are stronger and if we’re not paying attention doing rotations we would easily die. To say you can just heavy attack through it is untrue.

I’m not against vet overland but normal overland is pretty difficult to most players in the harder areas. I can guarantee most players can not solo any world boss without dying a few times if it all.

It seems like people are pretty split down the middle when it comes to the Overland. I highly doubt I am in "The minority".

The only places that jolt us awake are the Group Delves and the Group Quests, where the enemies do actually pose a threat and aren't pushovers. If you and your girlfriend are having a hard time, then you're likely in one of those areas.

Because as we're doing the main quest, it takes us in to the regular delves, and I can tell you that they are truly mind-numbingly easy. Even the story bosses are complete pushovers. We just killed Progenitor Mantikorat in two seconds, didn't even need to do a full rotation, and that was supposed to be a big scary monster.

"Most players can't solo world bosses!"
Really? It's almost like World Bosses are intended to be tackled by a group of players, rather than a solo. Akin to how other MMO games have world events that have bosses that need more than one player to tackle.

ESO is the only game that requires me to make myself a cup of coffee (And I hate coffee), while making my girlfriend lean against me to go to sleep. I'm pretty sure there is a flaw in the game's design if it makes people fall asleep.

Really, if there were a Veteran Overland setting, that made enemies be a bit more of a threat by upping their damage output, making them not be complete pushovers, I would be a very happy man indeed.

On the forums yes it is split down the middle but I think the amount of people who frequent the forums would easily be under 10% of the actual player base just a guess.

You are right about main story quests and zone quests the bosses are easy.
Everyone has different tastes when it comes to the game but in my experience by the time the story boss rolls around I’ve already been running back and forth between towns talking to 10 different npcs I just want him to die already so I can get my skill point get out and do something fun.

If there was this big difficult battle at the end that a lot of players would struggle with or die many times they just wouldn’t get completed.
In saying that I couldn’t see why the actual main quest and not zone story couldn’t have a vet option as it’s solo anyways.

In regards to your world bosses comment I don’t understand what your saying at all not sure if it was a bit of sarcasm or not and I haven’t played other mmos to know but what you want by the sounds of it is harder bosses in quests which is different to what it seems most on here want which is a harder overall overland because they can take out world bosses in a few shots with there eyes closed apparently.

Yes it was craglorn group delves.

We did dragonstar arena duo the other day and it was a thrill died a lot but was really fun and we made it through after a hour or so.

It’s just nostalgia bro like when you use to play a game as a kid it was exciting, you go do it now and after 5 minutes your over it.

You miss the feeling off when you were still learning to play the game it was new and everything is exciting and hard. Doesn’t matter how hard you make it the feels are gone you just have to accept and move on.

Here's the thing though - this criticism is not just made by long time players. This is also a point of criticism made by people getting into the game. This was actually something my IRL friends told me when they got into the game. This is pretty common critique of the game in other online communities like Reddit, Discord, Steam, and Youtube. So I disagree with the "10%" assertion.

While the point you made about nostalgia may be one variable - it certainly is not the root cause of the issue nor does it account for everything.

The point @Daraklus made about Overland is that there is a difference between a group activity like a Dolmen & World Boss as opposed to the rest of Overland which is something a player can do solo.

The Solo questing experience is what they are directly criticizing because they, as well as others, find the overall questing experience not fun primarily due to the gameplay. The writing is fine but gameplay does not keep us engaged.

Story bosses are one aspect, they are the destination that we would like to be worth the journey - but the overland also matters because it is most of the journey. It is not a matter of one or the other, they both need work. We simply cannot get into a story that is a breeze to beat. This is an Action mmorpg, not a point & click adventure.

What people here are asking for is that both the Destination & the Journey be fun for more than just the very new or very casual player. It is the majority of the story content in an Action mmorpg, they could certainly make the combat more enjoyable for those that made the criticism. Especially when considering the hundreds of hours of questing content there is in ESO.

Yeah I hear what your saying, the 10% was a stab in the dark could be higher though definitely not the majority or close. I never even thought about the issue till coming on the forums.

In my opinion they make the quests harder they will become even longer and more tedious the 100s of hours of questing you mentioned would double some may like that most would get over it quick knowing every battle is going to be hard or a grind.

Obviously if it was split into normal and vet it could be avoided but it’s just asking to much of the developers.

A complete re work of the game new server or whatever.

Splitting the player base now making new players not be able to complete group content.

Huge amount of time and money for something they don’t know would even be remotely popular.

Everyone on here already complains about the bugs and wanting to introduce another version of the game would exacerbate it 10 fold.

The easy majority will complete a quest and never look back never think about doing it again on the one character they have.
This will be made I’m assuming for veteran players who like to replay quests.

Let them fix the game we have before introducing something that could make things a lot worse for everyone.

wolfie1.0.

Overland is easy, i don't think that this is really up for debate. but honestly i think its buy design and properly so. Honestly, Overland is supposed to be the content for the casuals and people that love lore to consume. its basic, story and quest based. It used to be that each Zone was level locked, but that didn't turn out so well.

I don't see ZOS going back and changing this in all honesty. not unless they do it as a biproduct of nerfing ALL combat to make it harder. I DO see them incorporating such a mechanic in a future chapter or DLC though.

PigofSteel

Imagine veteran harrowstorms xD

Iccotak

wtlonewolf20 wrote: »

Overland is easy, i don't think that this is really up for debate. but honestly i think its buy design and properly so. Honestly, Overland is supposed to be the content for the casuals and people that love lore to consume. its basic, story and quest based. It used to be that each Zone was level locked, but that didn't turn out so well.

I don't see ZOS going back and changing this in all honesty. not unless they do it as a biproduct of nerfing ALL combat to make it harder. I DO see them incorporating such a mechanic in a future chapter or DLC though.

Why does engaging story & lore have to be mutually exclusive from engaging gameplay? Why should zones ONLY be for one type of player?

From a gameplay standpoint ESO is centered around action combat & progression - so why should the 500+ hours of questing play like a point & click adventure?

Sure, 2 quarters of the year are dungeon drops but the majority of the Questing content is in overland - not dungeons or any kind of endgame content. So let's not frame it like "Veteran Players" have the most content because that is disingenuous for the topic at hand. I don't want to spam dungeons and Arenas ad nauseum just because they stimulate me. I want to do quests and be stimulated while doing so.

I also love lore and storytelling but I definitely do NOT love it when a Big Bad is a Big Joke after the story spent 10-20 hours, or even up to a year, hyping them up.

I enjoyed the story in Oblivion and Skyrim but the combat was also challenging (on an appropriate difficulty setting) - you can do both

The Story Content should not just be for the Very New or the Very Casual player. It's accessible sure but it's not fun for everyone to do. Key word being Fun, the story & questing is not fun for a lot of people because of the gameplay -- which is important because this is an mmo that is also heavily centered around action combat.

People go on and on about all the good writing and all the exploration and how that should be fun enough. There's a ton of content that I'd like to do, but the gameplay is so unbelievably boring and I cannot get excited for a New "Year Long Adventure" that I know is going to be incredibly easy.

The journey becomes a walking simulator and the destination is very underwhelming

It doesn't matter how many hours there are of questing and exploring if the gameplay experience in that content is too trivial and easy to the point that it is NOT Engaging or Fun.

Yes that can happen. Things can be too easy to a point that it is no longer fun.

Sure there are group activities - but we would also like to be able to enjoy the Solo Questing Story experience, or maybe even enjoy it with one friend, but as it is we find it incredibly difficult to get immersed in a story that is a breeze to beat.
I don't want another Craglorn with the forced grouping - but - I don't want everything to be as easy as Bleakrock either.

And so far the only solution the opposing side has offered is essentially: "Don't play the game the way it was designed" - btw that is also very immersion breaking.

Interesting how people have no issue with complaints when something is too hard but when people say it is too easy the reply is always "It's Fine the way it is".

If it was really fine the way it is then this wouldn't keep being brought up by old and new players alike.

Engaging Story & Engaging Gameplay should not be mutually exclusive.

---

Daraklus

Say @Iccotak , some things you said sound very familiar, did you take inspiration from me?

"Why does engaging story & lore have to be mutually exclusive from engaging gameplay? Why should zones ONLY be for one type of player?"
The explanation seems to be that it is for those type of player because "It is by design" or "Because they outnumber everyone else"... Which I find to be a falsehood, because there is no such data to confirm this. Only Zenimax would know for certain, and they're tight-lipped as ever.

I suppose you could take data off of polls and what have you, but I don't think they're entirely accurate, given that a poll on a forum attracts only people who are active on said forums, usually slanted heavily in favor of the "Dedicated Fanbase" rather than anyone who plays the game but isn't active on any social platform.

Best thing to do in that case is to reach out to EVERY single possible player with a survey on their thoughts on the game. Only then you'd get a bit more of an accurate assessment, rather than a poll on Reddit with a single yes or no question.

Stevie6

SilverBride wrote: »

Stevie6 wrote: »

This mmo has gotten off track. DPS, CMX, and the CP trees should be removed.

And it would no longer be ESO. I don't know what it would be, but I do know it wouldn't be anything I'd want to play.

CP5 wrote: »

So, issue not solved and ZOS has the tools to fix it.

There is no issue to solve. Overland is working exactly as intended.

All I'm getting is people want things a little harder. If dps numbers weren't available and encounters were based on random dam/

Sorbin wrote: »

Anecdotal, but literally every IRL friend I've had that's played this game has quit because overworld is just completely, utterly brainless. Even casual players can steamroll everything in their path by the time they've hit the 20s at most. So they wind up in a place where the story and PvE content is completely mindless and boring, yet they're still many hours away from being able to really participate in endgame group content.

So what happens? Well, they quit, by and large. The game is a snooze, and they don't feel engaged. And the few that carry on to veteran content are so woefully unprepared for the insane spike in difficulty that they struggle immensely and begin to feel like they've got a 1000+ CP delta to bridge before they can have a handle on things.

Well some of us disabled players are locked out of higher content and you want overland harder? So umm what do you recommend for us? Git gud and practice is not happening. If overland gets harder, I will have to leave and thus no income for ZOS or Microsoft. That would also include the casual Joe player base. You can’t have it one sided. If you want harder overland, then we want easy mode for all hard content with rewards. [snip]

[edited for baiting]

Sanguinor2

Stevie6 wrote: »

Well some of us disabled players are locked out of higher content and you want overland harder? So umm what do you recommend for us? Git gud and practice is not happening. If overland gets harder, I will have to leave and thus no income for ZOS or Microsoft. That would also include the casual Joe player base. You can’t have it one sided. If you want harder overland, then we want easy mode for all hard content with rewards.

OP is asking for a second difficulty, not for the current difficulty to be replaced so your prefered difficulty would still be just as it is now.
Easy mode for all hard content already exists. Its called normal.

SilverBride

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

OP is asking for a second difficulty, not for the current difficulty to be replaced so your prefered difficulty would still be just as it is now.
Easy mode for all hard content already exists. Its called normal.

It has been explained multiple times why this idea won't work. But let's look at this from an industry standard.

How many MMOs do you know of that have multiple difficulty levels of their base game? It is the standard in MMOs that the base game is for questing and leveling and telling the story, and the challenging content is in dungeons and raids or trials.

It is not reasonable that a completely new version of the base game be created and maintained on 4 different servers/ platforms just because some players don't want to play the challenging content that the game provides.

Stevie6

SilverBride wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

OP is asking for a second difficulty, not for the current difficulty to be replaced so your prefered difficulty would still be just as it is now.
Easy mode for all hard content already exists. Its called normal.

It has been explained multiple times why this idea won't work. But let's look at this from an industry standard.

How many MMOs do you know of that have multiple difficulty levels of their base game? It is the standard in MMOs that the base game is for questing and leveling and telling the story, and the challenging content is in dungeons and raids or trials.

It is not reasonable that a completely new version of the base game be created and maintained on 4 different servers/ platforms just because some players don't want to play the challenging content that the game provides.

I think this is reasonable to have a few servers with different modes of play. Easy, normal, and vet 1 level for all content on a server and hard mode set for all content on another. PvP will be on its own server.

Sanguinor2

SilverBride wrote: »

It has been explained multiple times why this idea won't work. But let's look at this from an industry standard.

How many MMOs do you know of that have multiple difficulty levels of their base game? It is the standard in MMOs that the base game is for questing and leveling and telling the story, and the challenging content is in dungeons and raids or trials.

It is not reasonable that a completely new version of the base game be created and maintained on 4 different servers/ platforms just because some players don't want to play the challenging content that the game provides.

How many MMOs do you know that allow you to pull 40+ mobs at once, when they are at your level, without there being any threat to you? And how many MMOs do you know where soloing group events is trivial?
Where does the idea of multiple servers being needed come from? Different instances/shards of all zones etc. already exist.
Where does the idea that people want vet overland because they dont want to do challenging content come from? I have cleared every vet hm, most trifectas included, played high MMR bgs, got emperor more than once and still would like a veteran overland.
I´ll be fine if there will never be vet overland, I will just not play overland unless I want to farm a set there, I´d still like it as an option tho.

BlueRaven

Stevie6 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

OP is asking for a second difficulty, not for the current difficulty to be replaced so your prefered difficulty would still be just as it is now.
Easy mode for all hard content already exists. Its called normal.

It has been explained multiple times why this idea won't work. But let's look at this from an industry standard.

How many MMOs do you know of that have multiple difficulty levels of their base game? It is the standard in MMOs that the base game is for questing and leveling and telling the story, and the challenging content is in dungeons and raids or trials.

It is not reasonable that a completely new version of the base game be created and maintained on 4 different servers/ platforms just because some players don't want to play the challenging content that the game provides.

I think this is reasonable to have a few servers with different modes of play. Easy, normal, and vet 1 level for all content on a server and hard mode set for all content on another. PvP will be on its own server.

Budget and time is a real thing. What gets cut for all of this money they are spending on servers and extra workers to pump out this bonus content in a timely fashion?

Malthorne

BlueRaven wrote: »

Stevie6 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

OP is asking for a second difficulty, not for the current difficulty to be replaced so your prefered difficulty would still be just as it is now.
Easy mode for all hard content already exists. Its called normal.

It has been explained multiple times why this idea won't work. But let's look at this from an industry standard.

How many MMOs do you know of that have multiple difficulty levels of their base game? It is the standard in MMOs that the base game is for questing and leveling and telling the story, and the challenging content is in dungeons and raids or trials.

It is not reasonable that a completely new version of the base game be created and maintained on 4 different servers/ platforms just because some players don't want to play the challenging content that the game provides.

I think this is reasonable to have a few servers with different modes of play. Easy, normal, and vet 1 level for all content on a server and hard mode set for all content on another. PvP will be on its own server.

Budget and time is a real thing. What gets cut for all of this money they are spending on servers and extra workers to pump out this bonus content in a timely fashion?

An obvious suggestion would be to cut out one of the two yearly dungeon DLCs. Let the devs experiment with something a little different with a veteran overland difficulty while allowing time for bug fixes and general improvements to performance, gameplay and quality of life.

Raegwyr

SilverBride wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

OP is asking for a second difficulty, not for the current difficulty to be replaced so your prefered difficulty would still be just as it is now.
Easy mode for all hard content already exists. Its called normal.

It has been explained multiple times why this idea won't work. But let's look at this from an industry standard.

How many MMOs do you know of that have multiple difficulty levels of their base game? It is the standard in MMOs that the base game is for questing and leveling and telling the story, and the challenging content is in dungeons and raids or trials.

It is not reasonable that a completely new version of the base game be created and maintained on 4 different servers/ platforms just because some players don't want to play the challenging content that the game provides.

Wow even bring back classic in which overland and gear farming is much more difficult. Star trek have couple difficulties. GW2 have automatic debuf put on players in overland to bring them down to zone level. FFXIV had private servers with highier difficulty.
Also zos can just implement difficulty toggle for one zone and see how popular it would be. I know there area ton of ppl who want that feature, amount of requests should tell you that there is a demand for that.
You don't need it, okay. But for a love of god, stop telling other ppl that they shouldn't ask for things they want because it is not something that you want to see

Sanguinor2

BlueRaven wrote: »

There is an interesting thread about people who are having a hard time with the more challenging parts of the game. And they want dungeons (etc.) made easier.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/572936/casual-disabled-player-input

Now the budget for adding this extra level of difficulty has to come from somewhere. That means something gets cut, like the amount of story length, and the game area size of the dlc gets smaller.

Go to that thread and explain to them that you want to give even LESS of a gaming experience because the amount of difficult content right now is not enough for you.

The thread in question wants vet content to be made easier, not normal content. Their gaming experience wont change.
People that have a hard time with vet content always have normal to fall back to if they find that for whatever reason they are not capable of clearing vet.

SilverBride

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

How many MMOs do you know that allow you to pull 40+ mobs at once, when they are at your level, without there being any threat to you? And how many MMOs do you know where soloing group events is trivial?

I've never seen anyone pull 40+ mobs. The mobs only follow you so far before they turn and go back. It would be next to impossible to get even close to that many at once in a group in overland. And soloing group events? I've seen that done in other games, like WoW for example. If a player in ESO is wearing all veteran level gear and has a high CP, of course it's not going to be much of a challenge to them.

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Where does the idea of multiple servers being needed come from? Different instances/shards of all zones etc. already exist.

Different instances exist depending on how many players are on at once. During busy times there will be more instances of the same zone to handle the increased player load. This is very different than a server with completely different difficulty and mechanics.

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Where does the idea that people want vet overland because they dont want to do challenging content come from?

I'm not going to search back through the multiple threads on this subject, but some players who want veteran overland have mentioned they no longer participate in, or have never been interested in, vet end game content.

Sanguinor2

SilverBride wrote: »

I've never seen anyone pull 40+ mobs. The mobs only follow you so far before they turn and go back. It would be next to impossible to get even close to that many at once in a group in overland. And soloing group events? I've seen that done in other games, like WoW for example. But if a player in ESO is wearing all veteran level gear and has a high CP, of course its not going to be as much of a challenge to them.

You can do that in either spellscar or skyreach for example. In skyreach you can pull half of the delve, probably even the whole delve without anything running back and without being in any danger even tho literally the whole delve is hitting you.

SilverBride wrote: »

Different instances exist depending on how many players are on at once. During busy times there will be more instances of the same zone to handle the increased player load. This is very different than a completely different server with completely different difficulty and mechanics.

Vet and normal instances of the same content aswell as different rulesets of cyro/ic campaigns exist on the same server already. I would assume the same is possible for zones but since I obviously dont know how the servers Zos uses work I might be wrong.

BlueRaven

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

There is an interesting thread about people who are having a hard time with the more challenging parts of the game. And they want dungeons (etc.) made easier.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/572936/casual-disabled-player-input

Now the budget for adding this extra level of difficulty has to come from somewhere. That means something gets cut, like the amount of story length, and the game area size of the dlc gets smaller.

Go to that thread and explain to them that you want to give even LESS of a gaming experience because the amount of difficult content right now is not enough for you.

The thread in question wants vet content to be made easier, not normal content. Their gaming experience wont change.
People that have a hard time with vet content always have normal to fall back to if they find that for whatever reason they are not capable of clearing vet.

I said specifically:

“There is an interesting thread about people who are having a hard time with the more challenging parts of the game.”

Meaning that these people feel that the overland content is not enough for them. Making a vet version of overland means something else gets cut because of time and budget.

SilverBride

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Different instances exist depending on how many players are on at once. During busy times there will be more instances of the same zone to handle the increased player load. This is very different than a completely different server with completely different difficulty and mechanics.

Vet and normal instances of the same content aswell as different rulesets of cyro/ic campaigns exist on the same server already. I would assume the same is possible for zones but since I obviously dont know how the servers Zos uses work I might be wrong.

The only things I know of that have different difficulty levels are dungeons and raids. I believe Cyrodiil does have different campaigns for those under or above level 50, but not different levels of difficulty for the players to choose from.

But my point is that overland is easy, and that is by design and is the standard in most MMOs. And there just isn't enough support for creating a veteran overland to justify the time and cost.

Sanguinor2

BlueRaven wrote: »

I said specifically:

“There is an interesting thread about people who are having a hard time with the more challenging parts of the game.”

Meaning that these people feel that the overland content is not enough for them. Making a vet version of overland means something else gets cut because of time and budget.

But they are not limited to overland. They have all the normal version of every dungeon, trial and arena aswell as IC, cyro, bgs if they want to do those.
We´ve also had a rebalance of all overland content in the game at the time with one tamriel while still getting new systems, and abilities, doesnt mean it wont happen again obviously but it is theoretically possible.

Thechuckage

SilverBride wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Different instances exist depending on how many players are on at once. During busy times there will be more instances of the same zone to handle the increased player load. This is very different than a completely different server with completely different difficulty and mechanics.

Vet and normal instances of the same content aswell as different rulesets of cyro/ic campaigns exist on the same server already. I would assume the same is possible for zones but since I obviously dont know how the servers Zos uses work I might be wrong.

The only things I know of that have different difficulty levels are dungeons and raids. I believe Cyrodiil does have different campaigns for those under or above level 50, but not different levels of difficulty for the players to choose from.

But my point is that overland is easy, and that is by design and is the standard in most MMOs. And there just isn't enough support for creating a veteran overland to justify the time and cost.

Every other MMO also ramps up overland difficulty level as you progress and has a dedicated zone for newbies. Sure the overland starts easy but get progressively harder as you advance. This is the only one that treats all of overland as a starter zone.

W/ Cyro, there are different rule sets for CP / noCP campaigns. Shows the two can co-exist without impacting the other. Considering the difficulty in pvp is the other player you face, there isn't a means for the game to adjust the difficulty. Unless you want to talk about ranked matches and that only goes so far.

SilverBride

Thechuckage wrote: »

Every other MMO also ramps up overland difficulty level as you progress and has a dedicated zone for newbies. Sure the overland starts easy but get progressively harder as you advance. This is the only one that treats all of overland as a starter zone.

Some MMOs do it that way, but not all. And the ones that do have a linear path that you follow that makes that possible. I know WoW has zones in a low level range, then some in the next higher level range, and so on. But they don't create multiple difficulties of low level zones so it will be a challenge for the high level players.

ESO is not linear, so it would require completely separate overland zones to accommodate this request.

Ravensilver

Thank the Gods that we're back to one thread for this... >.>

I keep reading 'people want this', 'people want that'...

But what I'm really hearing is: *I* want this! And *I* want it now!

So I wonder... am I, too, 'people'? Because I *don't* want what you want.

Maybe 20 or 30 years ago, I might have written a similar thread. Before things like 'adulting' happened. Before things like family and house and obligations and my own business came along. Before 8 hours gameplay days morphed into 14 hour workdays.

For me, overland is absolutely perfect, just the way it is. I don't need to fight my way through wb strength mobs just to get from the wayshrine to the resource node 2 m away. I very much enjoy spending an evening wandering through all the myriad lands to collect flowers, open treasure chests, dig up antiquities and just basically think nothing and do as little as possible. Then there are the evenings where friends will ask me to join them and I'll do a few undaunted vet dungeon runs for fun.

I love the quests. I love the story. I still remember, during beta and the first months/years of ESO, when you couldn't finish a story endboss alone, because they were too strong. It was one of the reasons why I left ESO. It was also one of the reasons why I left EQ2 (there were a lot more, but I'll just pick this one because it fits). I had a whole questbook *full* of unfinished quests in EQ2, because the last steps were always elite dungeons/bosses that could only be conquered with a full group, geared to the max. Even if the mobs were 30 lvls below me, I couldn't solo them. It frustrated me to no end, because there was no reward in what I was doing, in what I was spending my precious hours on.

I can imagine there were a lot of other players that felt like I did. We enjoyed the game play, we loved the quests and the story - and we couldn't finish, because the opponents were simply too strong.

Someone mentioned WoW Classic here, the current appeal of it, because it's difficult and tedious. I played WoW when it *was* classic... I don't want to do it again. But I can understand the nostalgic appeal and the lure of 'I've done something, others can't do. I've mastered this and that.' But did you notice that not all WoW players switched over to Classic? Now why would that be? Perhaps those of us who *started* with classic no longer have the time or the energy for it? We've moved on in years and our free time has become very precious, so that we are happy that things are a bit easier now and we can actually achieve our daily goals in a reasonable time frame.

I understand that some players are interested in a more challenging version of overland. You want to feel that you've accomplished something if you've managed to fight your way from wayshrine to wayshrine within an hour's time instead of being a wuss (like me) and just walking around the mobs, so that I can pick the next flower...

You want to feel that your time was well spent, that you've set your adrenaline to racing, that you've bested the biggest enemies of tamriel, despite the fact that they tried (or succeeded) to kill you 15 times or more. You want the rush! The acclaim! The prizes!

I... don't.

And the idea of having a difficulty option...? In theory it sounds great. And if I could wave a wand and make it happen for you, I would. You'd never see me in that shard, but that's fine.

But all the arguments that have been brought up against a vet option/version so far are valid, too. Even if it makes you mad to read them.

What would happen to friends or guilds, if there are two versions of the game? What if you want to spend the evening together, doing quests, dailies, even? Which shard do you choose? You can't do both. Will 'easy' players be forced into the vet shard, because their guildies or friends want to play that way? Or the other way around? What would you do if your friend/partner/guildmember wanted to group with you, but was only interested in the 'easy' version?
You've heard the loot argument... and that's valid, too. Right now, if I want Perfected weapons, I have to do vet trials. I don't want to, so I don't have them and I can still hold my own just fine in a vet dungeon. So how do you balance that?

How much development energy and money would have to be put into making extra versions of the game for 'elite' players? ZOS already can't guarantee that the *current* setup works without a hitch (see the login problems on the EU server this week). So what will happen if they set up several versions? Will cross-server play even be possible?

There is so much that would have to be adjusted and added and changed and developed to make this possible. Personally, I'd rather they finally fix all the bugs in the game than add more.

Truly, the only way to find out who *really* wants this vet version, would be to add a mandatory survey to the login process, that *all* players would have to fill out before they can enter the game. Then ZOS would have a truly representative answer to the question of whether 'most/all people/players' want this.

So, for now, all that ZOS knows is that there are a *few* players (the ones that keep opening the same thread over and over and over again), that want harder overland content. And another *few* that say they don't. And the majority on the English, French, German and Russian forums hasn't weighed in one way or the other.

And the rest doesn't even know there's a discussion about this...

Iccotak

How much development energy and money would have to be put into making extra versions of the game for 'elite' players?

it's not just the "Elite Players" asking for this and I am tired of it being framed like it is.

Frozenskye

I really can't believe these threads keep popping up.

The crux of the issue is pretty simple. Even if ZoS were to make a veteran overland, it would still be less difficult than vet dungeons and trials, meaning vets will still end up steam rolling through overland content.

In the short term, sure, it'd 'feel' difficult. 6 months from now, they'll all be back here clamoring for more difficulty.

Ravensilver

Iccotak wrote: »

How much development energy and money would have to be put into making extra versions of the game for 'elite' players?

it's not just the "Elite Players" asking for this and I am tired of it being framed like it is.

Hm... but that is the impression that I'm getting here.

Did you take the time to make similar threads over on the other forums? On the German one? The French and Russian one? You do assume that everyone that plays is automatically here in the US English forum.
And so you also assume that *all* players want this.

*You* are asking for this. Not me. Not the people *I* play with. Not the players that have contradicted you on this and all the other threads that you opened on this subject.

I understand that it's hard to let go of a beloved idea. Of something that you *really, really, REALLY* want to see in a game...

I want to see smaller houses and an item cap of at least 2000 in each house. It ain't happening. I don't like it. I don't *have* to like it. But there is is...

Thechuckage

SilverBride wrote: »

Thechuckage wrote: »

Every other MMO also ramps up overland difficulty level as you progress and has a dedicated zone for newbies. Sure the overland starts easy but get progressively harder as you advance. This is the only one that treats all of overland as a starter zone.

Some MMOs do it that way, but not all. And the ones that do have a linear path that you follow that makes that possible. I know WoW has zones in a low level range, then some in the next higher level range, and so on. But they don't create multiple difficulties of low level zones so it will be a challenge for the high level players.

ESO is not linear, so it would require completely separate overland zones to accommodate this request.

So what are some that don't? I can't think of any. And of course WoW doesn't make multiple tiers of lowbie zones...the whole of overworld there is NOT a lowbie zone.

GW actually has a better system for this. Squash a player down to the zones level. You are still more powerful by simply having more skills and stats on gear but not a walking forest fire.