Normal and Veteran Overland

Sanguinor2

SilverBride wrote: »

No, you can't. If you continue to stand in red and not move or dodge, you will suffer consequences.

If a player stands in red in overland they are likely to stand in red in veteran overland. Just making the mob stronger doesn't automatically make the player wiser.

If the consequences are irrelevant they dont matter. Look at normal trials vs veteran trials for example. In normal sunspire you can completely ignore the ice cages on the first boss, if they explode you only get like 2k damage which gets outhealed by one tick of any AoE heal of your healer. In vet they explode for 20k+ damage if you ignore them so the game really wants you to actually do them or die. Or normal banished cells vs vet banished cells. Do you think a player that gets knocked back by the last bosses single target "burst" in normal but doesnt get any damage cares to block or dodge it? But if someone gets oneshot by it in vet they might just pay attention the next time.

orion_1981usub17_ESO

Maybe old hands forget that there are still new players coming into the game. I met three in a spindle clutch random, all playing together at level 20. Because they exist the game must be scaled to 50 and the mobs capable of a new player defeating.

They can't give you a scroll to up the difficulty of a public mob because they might wander in. An there is no financial reason to gate an entire new overland just for old hands. Overland is the base public zone. And if you dont find it engaging, that's a personal problem not a mechanical problem. If you mastered vet maelstrom, then over land content can never be made safely more engaging just for you.

Your request should ask for vet new dlc area which new players aren't allowed into until much later. [snip]

[Edited to remove Rude Comments]

Thechuckage

SilverBride wrote: »

Thechuckage wrote: »

Are you familiar with the Heroes Journey narrative? (For anyone not familiar) It is extremely common in writing and story telling. And not in the modern sense. This predates (AFAIK) Greek and other ancient civilizations. The Hero must overcome some obstacle, trial, enemy what have you. Regardless of how powerful the hero is, the struggle remains.

Hercules( a demigod for cripes sake) taking on the 7 tasks which challenged him greatly. John Henry literally killing himself to beat a drilling machine. Spiderman going from weak nerd to superpowers and learning to control them, himself and take on new responsibilities. The common thread is they all have to work to succeed.

Now if you specifically SilverBride enjoy just being super OP. Fine, but the centuries of story telling has shown people like the hero to work for their success. Not have it handed to them.

That is all interesting from a story telling perspective, but it doesn't carry over to ESO. It's apples and oranges.

There is not enough interest in veteran overland to justify something that very few players would ever use. And since so few would be using it, it would soon become a ghost town. No one will be able to progress in a veteran difficulty overland with no one to group with for world bosses and harrowstorms and dragons etc.. And there would be no way you could solo them. Pretty soon everyone would be gone.

All that time and work for nothing.

Considering that the story is the crux of your argument, I'd say carries over. The story falls flat without the struggle.

Everything else is simply baseless assertions.

Thechuckage

BlueRaven wrote: »

Thechuckage wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

I find it funny that this thread is arguing for a harder overland, saying how so many players find it too easy. And that they want more complex overland mobs.

Yet at the same time there is another thread arguing that overland mobs have too many annoying abilities, in this case snares.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/570105/remove-all-snares-from-the-game#latest

And that mobs should no longer have snares. AND that thread’s OP has more likes then this one.

So we have two threads asking for overland to go in two different directions in terms of difficulty, and the one asking for easier overland is more popular.

Personally I don’t think it should be more difficult, AND I think the amount of snares mobs have currently is appropriate.

You mean there are multiple view points? Say it isn't so!

You have demonstrated three in your single post. Could you demonstrate a time when there has been a mass consensus for a feature or direction for the game to move? You'll pardon me if I don't hold my breath.

Yes. That the green CP tree have less slottable passives.

Touche.

At the same time, that one is hardly controversial.

Raegwyr

SilverBride wrote: »

Thechuckage wrote: »

@SilverBride Stories need weight. If the hero never has to struggle, never has to overcome challenges then it is a poor story. "Going to save the world from an evil god" loses all meaning when the difficulty curve makes the Great Plains look mountainous by comparison.

I don't need to struggle to enjoy the story. In fact I find the opposite to be true. I can only believe I am really a hero if I am strong enough to crush my enemies.

The story is fine just as it is.

[snip] For me engaging story in games needs to be challenging otherwise it is just dumb, especially when half of the quest npc is telling you how dangerous your enemy is only to be killed in 4s.
For you story don't need to be challenging to be interestinb and that is fine. But stop treating your way of playing as the only correct one as many players here already mentioned it is not true.
Most ppl who ask for harder overland search for solution that would not kill the fun for ppl like you. And you are repeating again and again that overland is fine and problem of those ppl is not relevant (instead of joining the discussion and provide some valuable feedback). [snip]
And please stop saying that idea of normal/veteran overland is going to split the population. Population is already fractured as most vets go and do the quest in new zone max once if even at all and dont show in overland because it is boring af.
Not only vets, I introduce eso to many ppl and most of them stop playing because of technical difficulties, combat which they found stale (yeah, ani ation definietely require some update and not only them) and overland which becomes boring to every player which is not sharing your mindset of challengeless story (i can assure you there are a plenty of ppl like that).
One of the reasons why wow classic was such a huge succes is because blizzard dumb down retail too much and ppl were looking for challenge during leveling, to struggle during progression.
ESO overland is good for you and thats fine but for many it is just dumb and boring experience because there is no struggle. Stop saying that ppl are wrong feeling that because they have different opinion then you regarding what engaging story is. [snip]

[Edited to remove Rude Comments]

Raegwyr

BlueRaven wrote: »

Thechuckage wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

I find it funny that this thread is arguing for a harder overland, saying how so many players find it too easy. And that they want more complex overland mobs.

Yet at the same time there is another thread arguing that overland mobs have too many annoying abilities, in this case snares.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/570105/remove-all-snares-from-the-game#latest

And that mobs should no longer have snares. AND that thread’s OP has more likes then this one.

So we have two threads asking for overland to go in two different directions in terms of difficulty, and the one asking for easier overland is more popular.

Personally I don’t think it should be more difficult, AND I think the amount of snares mobs have currently is appropriate.

You mean there are multiple view points? Say it isn't so!

You have demonstrated three in your single post. Could you demonstrate a time when there has been a mass consensus for a feature or direction for the game to move? You'll pardon me if I don't hold my breath.

Yes. That the green CP tree have less slottable passives.

Actually I met couple ppl who said they don't want more passives on the green tree as micromanagment makes it tedious enough for lazy ppl to not farming more which lead to highier price of materials for ppl who likes to farm and sell crafting goods.
So even on topic like that you can find different opinions

Hallothiel

Thechuckage wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Thechuckage wrote: »

Are you familiar with the Heroes Journey narrative? (For anyone not familiar) It is extremely common in writing and story telling. And not in the modern sense. This predates (AFAIK) Greek and other ancient civilizations. The Hero must overcome some obstacle, trial, enemy what have you. Regardless of how powerful the hero is, the struggle remains.

Hercules( a demigod for cripes sake) taking on the 7 tasks which challenged him greatly. John Henry literally killing himself to beat a drilling machine. Spiderman going from weak nerd to superpowers and learning to control them, himself and take on new responsibilities. The common thread is they all have to work to succeed.

Now if you specifically SilverBride enjoy just being super OP. Fine, but the centuries of story telling has shown people like the hero to work for their success. Not have it handed to them.

That is all interesting from a story telling perspective, but it doesn't carry over to ESO. It's apples and oranges.

There is not enough interest in veteran overland to justify something that very few players would ever use. And since so few would be using it, it would soon become a ghost town. No one will be able to progress in a veteran difficulty overland with no one to group with for world bosses and harrowstorms and dragons etc.. And there would be no way you could solo them. Pretty soon everyone would be gone.

All that time and work for nothing.

Considering that the story is the crux of your argument, I'd say carries over. The story falls flat without the struggle.

Everything else is simply baseless assertions.

There is a difference between a story one reads/listens to/watches, and one where one is the participant.

It’s all about why you play the game. I like to do many things, from questing to housing to (attempting) vet trials; others I know do not quest but head straight to end game, dummy humping their dps to the max and knocking off trial achievements as that is what they enjoy.

But if you look at the game achievements on PlayStation, for instance, you would see that only a miniscule fraction of the player base has completed harder things; it is probably similar on xbox & even pc. Which suggests that it is a very small amount if players that want things harder.

Yes, overland mobs can be boring. But I would prefer not having to wade through swarms of hard hitting npcs or whathaveyou when pootling around doing surveys etc. That would get tedious fast.

Rather than a whole separate overland, as this would take too much dev time & money for little reward, they should look at instancing things more, such as quest bosses - big bads should be big and bad, and so different instances of different difficulty could help with that, and not cost too much to implement.

As have said before, if an overland vet version was commercially viable & would add profit, it would be done/planned. I think players here do sometimes forget this game is not made for ‘fun’ but to make money.

Ergele

any chance for zos to surprise us in q4 like the stickerbook last year?

Iccotak

Faulgor wrote: »

It's so comforting to know that even in these uncertain times, there will always be a thread on the front page asking for higher difficulty overland.

Keep it up, never stop dreaming! Maybe one day. ZOS will actually listen.

Actually ZOS has acknowledged this issue some time ago. Even that they had worked on it.

what the developers had to say
From Reddit over 1 year ago
Link: https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/bwdb0r/comment/epwrb9x
Text of answer

ZOS_MattF
Hello! We have no plans on implementing spears, but we have talked off and on about cool ways to do the one hand magic/one hand weapon thing. That's not on our roadmap anywhere, but we have been brainstorming.

There are so many cool things we could do! Seriously, we love these ideas too, but it all comes down to a matter of time and priorities.

EDIT: to respond to your edit. Yes, we've talked about this, in fact we tried to get that into the game as part of One Tamriel, but we just couldn't get it done. So we have ideas on how to have difficulty settings for overland content, but it's not currently planned. It's a great idea.

At this point with companions and changes to CP, as well as talks about keeping things fresh & interesting - it would not surprise me if they were working on the idea again.

---

SilverBride

Hallothiel wrote: »

It’s all about why you play the game. I like to do many things, from questing to housing to (attempting) vet trials; others I know do not quest but head straight to end game, dummy humping their dps to the max and knocking off trial achievements as that is what they enjoy.

But if you look at the game achievements on PlayStation, for instance, you would see that only a miniscule fraction of the player base has completed harder things; it is probably similar on xbox & even pc. Which suggests that it is a very small amount if players that want things harder.

I couldn't agree more. This is one of the biggest reasons veteran overland is not feasible. There just aren't enough players who would actually use it to make it worth the cost.

Iccotak

SilverBride wrote: »

Hallothiel wrote: »

It’s all about why you play the game. I like to do many things, from questing to housing to (attempting) vet trials; others I know do not quest but head straight to end game, dummy humping their dps to the max and knocking off trial achievements as that is what they enjoy.

But if you look at the game achievements on PlayStation, for instance, you would see that only a miniscule fraction of the player base has completed harder things; it is probably similar on xbox & even pc. Which suggests that it is a very small amount if players that want things harder.

I couldn't agree more. This is one of the biggest reasons veteran overland is not feasible. There just aren't enough players who would actually use it to make it worth the cost.

Then it shouldn’t be a problem if it was just the Main Story that got a Normal/Veteran setting for Boss encounters - since those are such a small part of the game.

Sevn

So I'll ask the same question that I ask in every one of these threads, and will continue to ask, what happens when you master this vet level? Ask Zos for another? And another? And another?

You see this question has been posed by several different people, yet continually gets ignored. Oh they'll continually respond to the same lame suggestion of going naked over and over, that's an easy one to dismiss.

However, in their zeal to continually bash this suggestion, they've exposed their real issue, it's not the gear making the game easy, it's their gained knowledge of how the game works, which will never go away. It's probably burned into muscle memory like the rest of us vets.

So again, what happens when you're master of this new vet zone let's say 2 months after release? Is Zos now obligated to update/upgrade/release a vet version every other month?

What gets cut from the fixed budget to compensate for this new workload?

Edit- Scroll idea for story bosses is excellent. Even for overland, as long as players know it simply buffs the boss, not add in new mechanics. Someone who knows more correct me, but if they could do that, why not have that already in game for the bosses we have in the 2 different versions of dungeons <Real question, no trolling.

SilverBride

Iccotak wrote: »

what the developers had to say
From Reddit over 1 year ago
Link: https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/bwdb0r/comment/epwrb9x

"Yes, we've talked about this, in fact we tried to get that into the game as part of One Tamriel, but we just couldn't get it done. So we have ideas on how to have difficulty settings for overland content, but it's not currently planned. It's a great idea."

Elder Scrolls Online changed into "One Tamriel" mode in October 2016. That was almost 5 years ago. I seriously doubt it's a priority today, and in their own words "it's not currently planned".

Iccotak wrote: »

Then it shouldn’t be a problem if it was just the Main Story that got a Normal/Veteran setting for Boss encounters - since those are such a small part of the game.

Absolutely. I already agreed in another thread that it would be reasonable to implement a way to choose the difficulty of the quest bosses, with a scroll as was suggested, or some other means.

(As long as the boss fights were just once per character and not repeatable as had been proposed previously in another thread. Keeping the story intact would be a priority, and putting these bosses on farm would break immersion.)

This way wouldn't require a total rework of overland, but would still provide those who wish with a more challenging quest boss experience.

On this one thing... I think we agree.

martinhpb16_ESO

Jeffrey530 wrote: »

My opposition to this idea has nothing to do with denying anyone something they would enjoy. It is just not feasible to put the time and manpower and resources into changing overland into something it was never intended to be. Especially since it would not be widely used.[/quote]

Why not let the Devs decide what is achievable rather than being "opposed" to your fellow gamers asking for something that would make their game play enjoyable again?

In other games this has been easily dealt with by using a debuff item.

I'm sure it is well within the Devs capabilities to develop the game with economies of scale in mind.

martinhpb16_ESO

SilverBride wrote: »

No one can be sure. But I do know they need a good reason and/or a wide audience wanting any change before they would consider it. There is neither with this request.

In your opinion, this is actually pretty high on my request list.

skooma_dealer

Hallothiel wrote: »

But if you look at the game achievements on PlayStation, for instance, you would see that only a miniscule fraction of the player base has completed harder things; it is probably similar on xbox & even pc. Which suggests that it is a very small amount if players that want things harder.

If you look at the game achievements on PlayStation, for instance, you would see that only 15% of players have completed main story quest since the game release. I'm not even talking about other chapters. That seems pretty low to me, especially if we're talking about the most casual and noob-friendly content in the game.

Smile2342

I'd be happy if there were a few more random encounters where the monsters were tougher. It would make wandering doing overland stuff a lot less dull.

Iccotak

SilverBride wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

what the developers had to say
From Reddit over 1 year ago
Link: https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/bwdb0r/comment/epwrb9x

"Yes, we've talked about this, in fact we tried to get that into the game as part of One Tamriel, but we just couldn't get it done. So we have ideas on how to have difficulty settings for overland content, but it's not currently planned. It's a great idea."

Elder Scrolls Online changed into "One Tamriel" mode in October 2016. That was almost 5 years ago. I seriously doubt it's a priority today, and in their own words "it's not currently planned".

Iccotak wrote: »

Then it shouldn’t be a problem if it was just the Main Story that got a Normal/Veteran setting for Boss encounters - since those are such a small part of the game.

Absolutely. I already agreed in another thread that it would be reasonable to implement a way to choose the difficulty of the quest bosses, with a scroll as was suggested, or some other means.

(As long as the boss fights were just once per character and not repeatable as had been proposed previously in another thread. Keeping the story intact would be a priority, and putting these bosses on farm would break immersion.)

This way wouldn't require a total rework of overland, but would still provide those who wish with a more challenging quest boss experience.

On this one thing... I think we agree.

And like it has been said in other threads, the problem with the bosses is more so their mechanics then their stats.

They don’t need just one small tweak here or there, some of them do need a bit of an overhaul to actually make them engaging.

Because their mechanics right now are basically bare minimum, and would need more than just the addition of one or two mechanics.

The Scroll would be a half measure. At best.

1. ZOS does not invest time into developing interesting and engaging mechanics for fights that are not repeatable. Even Scrolls are only used for repeatable content.

2. An activity being repeatable is not nearly as immersion breaking as a boss being hyped up over the course of a storyline, or even up to a year, and presents no challenge or threat in gameplay.

Lich King from WoW as well as Taken King from Destiny are repeatable yet are still hailed as great & memorable boss fights.

World Bosses are repeatable, but does that stop them from being good boss fights?
——————————————————
I mean, you keep on saying how it has to be worth it financially for ZOS to invest in and develop it.

Which means it has to have a form of replay value that keeps the player base engaged frequently enough that justifies the money ZOS spent making it.

You could still beat it on normal just once, and leave it at that. But there still an awesome fight with engaging mechanics that actually provides a worthwhile time for players overall end justifies the cost to develop & implement it

@Sevn I have actually answered your question before. In my opinion a veteran overland would be adjusted for people at level 50 skill. Because let’s face it overland as it is right now is really adjusted for people at most of level 15.

You can use the slippery slope argument, but I think we can agree there has to be something better than enemies hitting you once every 4 to 6 seconds with maybe a snare ability. There has to be something better than all the enemies being as easy as a starter zone.

SilverBride

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

Why not let the Devs decide what is achievable rather than being "opposed" to your fellow gamers asking for something that would make their game play enjoyable again?

In other games this has been easily dealt with by using a debuff item.

I'm sure it is well within the Devs capabilities to develop the game with economies of scale in mind.

The developers are the only ones who can decide. It's all in their hands. But debating proposals, especially ones that would require such a large scale change, provides information on how many players back this or not, and why they do or don't.

Backing up or opposing proposals opens conversations that can lead to positive outcomes.

In this case there have been multiple threads about the same or similar issue from different angles. Finally someone proposed a solution that appears to be widely accepted by those on both sides of the debate. (An item that determines the quest story boss difficulty) This is a very positive outcome of players debating, and could be something that would receive a lot of support, and would only require a fraction of the resources to implement.

Iccotak

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

My opposition to this idea has nothing to do with denying anyone something they would enjoy. It is just not feasible to put the time and manpower and resources into changing overland into something it was never intended to be. Especially since it would not be widely used.

Why not let the Devs decide what is achievable rather than being "opposed" to your fellow gamers asking for something that would make their game play enjoyable again?

In other games this has been easily dealt with by using a debuff item.

I'm sure it is well within the Devs capabilities to develop the game with economies of scale in mind.

And other games have successfully addressed the issue by making a separate instance that is harder.
Like the Division.

SilverBride

Iccotak wrote: »

The Scroll would be a half measure. At best.

1. ZOS does not invest time into developing interesting and engaging mechanics for fights that are not repeatable. Even Scrolls are only used for repeatable content.

2. An activity being repeatable is not nearly as immersion breaking as a boss being hyped up over the course of a storyline, or even up to a year, and presents no challenge or threat in gameplay.

There is absolutely no way I would ever agree to putting quest bosses on farm. That idea was already proposed long ago which is why I made sure to include that distinction.

And where is the proof that ZoS doesn't put time into developing mechanics for one time fights?

If the true issue is boredom, and the quest bosses anticlimactic, a scroll would provide a solution. But putting quest bosses on farm would completely break immersion. You beat the boss... the story is complete.

Amottica

Iccotak wrote: »

As for splitting the player base, there is definitely a difference between what we are proposing which would split the player base only once as compared to the old system which split the player-base 9 different ways

I think that companies avoid splitting the player base such as this because it tends to be a waste of resources since older areas of games tend to have very small populations, not to mention that it caters to a small population of the game reducing the value even further. I have not played a major modern MMORPG with a challenging overland which seems to be purposely designed as such.

Thechuckage

Sevn wrote: »

So I'll ask the same question that I ask in every one of these threads, and will continue to ask, what happens when you master this vet level? Ask Zos for another? And another? And another?

You see this question has been posed by several different people, yet continually gets ignored. Oh they'll continually respond to the same lame suggestion of going naked over and over, that's an easy one to dismiss.

However, in their zeal to continually bash this suggestion, they've exposed their real issue, it's not the gear making the game easy, it's their gained knowledge of how the game works, which will never go away. It's probably burned into muscle memory like the rest of us vets.

So again, what happens when you're master of this new vet zone let's say 2 months after release? Is Zos now obligated to update/upgrade/release a vet version every other month?

What gets cut from the fixed budget to compensate for this new workload?

Edit- Scroll idea for story bosses is excellent. Even for overland, as long as players know it simply buffs the boss, not add in new mechanics. Someone who knows more correct me, but if they could do that, why not have that already in game for the bosses we have in the 2 different versions of dungeons <Real question, no trolling.

Has anyone asked for super vet trials? Mega Maelstrom Arena? I don't think it is unreasonable to have a vet version of overland considering every other activity has the same. (Counting CP pvp as vet)

Hallothiel - Low PS4 group completion is a single data point. And was pointed out that 15% had completed overland, which provides more context and a look at PS4 playerbase as a whole. Not to mention you cannot accurately extrapolate that to PC and/or XBox.

Something I think we could agree on - lower the population of enemies running around overland. I would prefer them to be replaced with weightier enemies, but not having a pack of wolves or a bandit gang every few hundred feet would make things nicer.

SilverBride

Thechuckage wrote: »

Something I think we could agree on - lower the population of enemies running around overland. I would prefer them to be replaced with weightier enemies, but not having a pack of wolves or a bandit gang every few hundred feet would make things nicer.

We need these mobs roaming around overland to make the world feel alive. They can be a nuisance if they are hanging around a node you want to harvest, but at least they are a minor nuisance rather than a major challenge.

Plus they add an additional obstacle to just gathering so many of this or that, because you often have to fight them to get to your quest objectives.

Reducing overland mobs would make overland questing even easier, and as some would say more boring, which is what this thread has presented as an issue.

Iccotak

SilverBride wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

The Scroll would be a half measure. At best.

1. ZOS does not invest time into developing interesting and engaging mechanics for fights that are not repeatable. Even Scrolls are only used for repeatable content.

2. An activity being repeatable is not nearly as immersion breaking as a boss being hyped up over the course of a storyline, or even up to a year, and presents no challenge or threat in gameplay.

And where is the proof that ZoS doesn't put time into developing mechanics for one time fights?

- Mannimarco
- Barbas
- Shadow of Sotha Sil
- Nocturnal's Champion
- Kassandra
- Zunmog Phoom
- Mulaamnir
- Ra'khajin
- Laatvulon
- Kaalgrontiid
- High King Svargim
- Lady Belain
- Rada al-Saran

All bosses that had great set up but whose fights were a big let-down with their bare minimum mechanics & lack of ability to deal any real damage.

---

Edit: If that was not the case then these threads would not be as common as they are.

---

If the true issue is boredom, and the quest bosses anticlimactic, a scroll would provide a solution. But putting quest bosses on farm would completely break immersion. You beat the boss... the story is complete.

I have never found the immersion ruined by a fight being repeatable - that problem is solved when the fight is Engaging.

It is only boring if the fight is boring. It being repeatable does not impact this.

World Bosses are repeatable, still good & engaging boss fights
Dungeons are repeatable, still some of the best combat in the game.
Trials are repeatable, still awesome & engaging.

Even though those stories for Dungeons & Trials were canonically beaten once - I am still immersed in these fights because they are well designed fights. Those are the fights that have real elbow work put into their design. They have both great gameplay and visuals.

---

SilverBride

Iccotak wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

And where is the proof that ZoS doesn't put time into developing mechanics for one time fights?

- Mannimarco
- Barbas
- Shadow of Sotha Sil
- Nocturnal's Champion
- Kassandra
- Zunmog Phoom
- Mulaamnir
- Ra'khajin
- Laatvulon
- Kaalgrontiid
- High King Svargim
- Lady Belain
- Rada al-Saran

All bosses that had great set up but whose fights were a big let-down with their bare minimum mechanics & lack of ability to deal any real damage.

Edit: If that was not the case then these threads would not be as common as they are.

Difficulty is subjective, and our perceptions of how challenging something is, or isnt, in no way indicates how much time ZoS put into developing mechanics.

It is very common for threads on the same subject to pop up multiple times. If a proposal garnered sufficient support the first time it was presented, there would be no need for further threads on the same subject.

Jeffrey530

Thechuckage wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Thechuckage wrote: »

@SilverBride Stories need weight. If the hero never has to struggle, never has to overcome challenges then it is a poor story. "Going to save the world from an evil god" loses all meaning when the difficulty curve makes the Great Plains look mountainous by comparison.

I don't need to struggle to enjoy the story. In fact I find the opposite to be true. I can only believe I am really a hero if I am strong enough to crush my enemies.

The story is fine just as it is.

Are you familiar with the Heroes Journey narrative? (For anyone not familiar) It is extremely common in writing and story telling. And not in the modern sense. This predates (AFAIK) Greek and other ancient civilizations. The Hero must overcome some obstacle, trial, enemy what have you. Regardless of how powerful the hero is, the struggle remains.

Hercules( a demigod for cripes sake) taking on the 7 tasks which challenged him greatly. John Henry literally killing himself to beat a drilling machine. Spiderman going from weak nerd to superpowers and learning to control them, himself and take on new responsibilities. The common thread is they all have to work to succeed.

Now if you specifically SilverBride enjoy just being super OP. Fine, but the centuries of story telling has shown people like the hero to work for their success. Not have it handed to them.

Honestly this is so outdated. Popular ( especially) asian novels/ tv shows/anime these days are all about a new genre- insanely powerful protagonists right from the star. People don't care about progression or work to succeed anymore, it is simply about how the protagonist can crush enemies instantly, show off their power in different ways. You may not like it, but it is a fact that this genre is one of the most popular in Japan/korea/china at this moment.

Smile2342

When I first started playing this game there was a quest that took you to Clockwork City. I remember there was a room that I kept on getting wiped. What I thought interesting was that it seemed to me that it was getting easier and easier to get the boss down in HP to the point from where I died last time. Basically it seem I was hitting harder each time I rez'd and tried again. It seemed that the game logic was made so that at some point it would be easy enough to make it passible so everyone could do the content.

Some of the story line is shared with other players and some is instanced. Why not have it where the instanced items start of harder and gets easier with each attempt?

Sanguinor2

Jeffrey530 wrote: »

Honestly this is so outdated. Popular ( especially) asian novels/ tv shows/anime these days are all about a new genre- insanely powerful protagonists right from the star. People don't care about progression or work to succeed anymore, it is simply about how the protagonist can crush enemies instantly, show off their power in different ways. You may not like it, but it is a fact that this genre is one of the most popular in Japan/korea/china at this moment.

Must´ve missed the announcement that ESO is produced for Japan/Korea/China now (despite not even having an asian server). Eh cant keep up with all the news I guess.

Iccotak

SilverBride wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

And where is the proof that ZoS doesn't put time into developing mechanics for one time fights?

- Mannimarco
- Barbas
- Shadow of Sotha Sil
- Nocturnal's Champion
- Kassandra
- Zunmog Phoom
- Mulaamnir
- Ra'khajin
- Laatvulon
- Kaalgrontiid
- High King Svargim
- Lady Belain
- Rada al-Saran

All bosses that had great set up but whose fights were a big let-down with their bare minimum mechanics & lack of ability to deal any real damage.

Edit: If that was not the case then these threads would not be as common as they are.

Difficulty is subjective, and our perceptions of how challenging something is, or isnt, in no way indicates how much time ZoS put into developing mechanics.

It is very common for threads on the same subject to pop up multiple times. If a proposal garnered sufficient support the first time it was presented, there would be no need for further threads on the same subject.

We have acknowledged that they may be difficult for some new and/or casual players. (EDIT: Note some, not all, clearly) They are not the only players here..

By the time you're level 50, no matter your CP, and even dabbled in dungeons & arenas - story bosses just don't make the cut.
(EDIT: Even before then, I have seen many players quit because they found the majority of the combat too stale, except for dungeons)

You yourself acknowledged that the Bosses are easy and said you like them that way.

I don't need to struggle to enjoy the story. In fact I find the opposite to be true. I can only believe I am really a hero if I am strong enough to crush my enemies.

The story is fine just as it is.

This is why people have proposed a separate instance with higher difficulty and adjustments to mechanics.