Normal and Veteran Overland

merpins · May 2021

Daraklus wrote: »

Agreed with your statements. It wouldn't divert much of their resources since this kind of addition to the game is primarily balancing, since the content already exists. Making a "Part 2" to ESO isn't a good idea. If they do that, they should just update the game's engine fundamentally, WoW has updated their engine once or twice and Maplestory has done it at least 4 times during the time those games have been alive without deleting everyone's accounts. Then, they could time skip some
years or something, but I don't find that to be necessary in this game. So yeah, your comments are well put.

Ergele · May 2021

what if they added vet overland as a rotation? Like one zone very week can be played as veteran overworld.

Iccotak · May 2021

Ergele wrote: »

what if they added vet overland as a rotation? Like one zone very week can be played as veteran overworld.

That sounds awful, in every sense of the word

crjs1 · May 2021

Ergele wrote: »

what if they added vet overland as a rotation? Like one zone very week can be played as veteran overworld.

That would be chaos and please no one. Imagine your new, low level, getting to know the game and in the middle of a zone storyline then all of a sudden it’s switched to vet… no thanks

Kingpindragon · May 2021

I personally would like Overland to be more challenging. But logically and in some cases, you can see how popular 'higher difficulty' would be today. Take transmute stones; you can get them on both random normal and random veteran. Yet, random normals queues pop significantly faster than veteran.

What is higher difficult? Is it more HP, harder hits, longer fights? Most players don't like harder content for the same reward.

The past has shown there is no financial or population benefit to ZOS making Overland harder, I'm sure if there was they would invest the right amount of resources to make those players happy. ZOS isn't tone-deaf when it comes to listening to the community as a whole. They have their flaws with overall PVP/PVE/gear/class balance; but overall they are by far not the worst, at least right now. Especially when it comes to content.

Agenericname · May 2021

Kingpindragon wrote: »

I personally would like Overland to be more challenging. But logically and in some cases, you can see how popular 'higher difficulty' would be today. Take transmute stones; you can get them on both random normal and random veteran. Yet, random normals queues pop significantly faster than veteran.

What is higher difficult? Is it more HP, harder hits, longer fights? Most players don't like harder content for the same reward.

The past has shown there is no financial or population benefit to ZOS making Overland harder, I'm sure if there was they would invest the right amount of resources to make those players happy. ZOS isn't tone-deaf when it comes to listening to the community as a whole. They have their flaws with overall PVP/PVE/gear/class balance; but overall they are by far not the worst, at least right now. Especially when it comes to content.

Random normal will always pop faster than veteran, even if the rewards weren't the same. There are simply more players in that skill range. For veteran players, randoms normals are a glorified fetch quest and they're there as a matter of expediency. It's just another grind. It's ruins the experience for quite a few. They really shouldn't be that way, but here we are. So there are one of 2 possibilities, either the speed runners and fake tanks only effect a small number of players, or ZOS is a little tone deaf about this.

ACamaroGuy · May 2021

This topic again. I view overland content as a place for beginners to level up. They complete quests, find sky shards and gain XP towards their end game content. The developers have a hard enough time keeping this game running smoothly, or as best as possible, with one mode for overland. Think of how fast the overland play is on this game. Do you honestly trust them to be able to give you a veteran version of overland along with normal and keep the game up and running it all?

Iccotak · May 2021

ACamaroGuy wrote: »

This topic again. I view overland content as a place for beginners to level up. They complete quests, find sky shards and gain XP towards their end game content. The developers have a hard enough time keeping this game running smoothly, or as best as possible, with one mode for overland. Think of how fast the overland play is on this game. Do you honestly trust them to be able to give you a veteran version of overland along with normal and keep the game up and running it all?

What do you mean "This Topic Again?" it hasn't been on the front page for nearly a week - the only thing bringing this thread back to life is is your reply.
As to your questions;

If Story is only for beginners then that makes the New Story content (which is most of the content in the year) effectively worthless & Boring to ongoing characters who are beyond level 50. (not the case for all players but enough to be a rising issue and a frequent topic)

Also It's one thing if you are a new player - but after you've quested through 5+ zones you're no longer a "New Player" which is irritating when Zones are basically ALL beginner level easy.

The entire story experience does not need to be beginner level easy - it's like being only allowed to play on Novice difficulty in Skyrim, I could make my questing experience more challenging in that game. (and NO purposeful self nerf does not solve the issue no matter how many times people bring it up)

Too Hard isn't Fun, I get that, but Too Easy is also equally not as fun, if not less so. Most of my irl friends who left game because overland gameplay experience was too simple and easy which made the overall questing/leveling experience boring.

This design choice has also had some negative long term consequences - which I noted in a separate thread Here

Sarannah wrote: »

PPS: I have noticed more and more extremely low dps players using the veteran dungeonfinder the last week(s), as they are not taught anything in normal dungeons anymore. Fake tanks actually cause 'fake dps'.

You can also thank the rest of Overland for that as it doesn't ever really ask the player to get better. It just hands them every victory on a silver platter and pats them on the head.

There are more and more people who are not good at the game because most of the game doesn't challenge them to get better and when it finally does it is a complete 180 from the rest of their experience in the game.

Overland content is TOO Simple and lacks any mechanics or damage that pushes the player to actually pay attention - for dodging or bashing/interrupting, avoid the red areas, etc. the game does NOT punish the player for not paying attention.

It's one thing if its mobs - it makes sense for them to be simple but the "Bigger NPCs", Story Bosses, Delve Bosses? All of them are too basic. Only the Group Content in Overland - WB & Dolmen's - are actually a threat to the player. There is never any point where a player is like "Oh Crap a Troll, I better be careful"

So it is no wonder that we have an ever increasing population of players who are incapable of playing in the harder content because nothing else in the Solo content experience is remotely like it.

(EDIT: btw I am saying this as someone who predominately plays a tank character. I make some adjustments when doing overland content, so I can tell you that the general enemies don't do much of anything which is part of what makes those fights sooo Boring.

Fact is that Tanks and Healers are most times the only ones who have to consider to change builds/tactics for the context of a situation)

As to your performance question - this is not some indie game that's struggling to stay afloat, this is a successful mmo running 7 years now, that brings in the big buck to ZOS and now Microsoft - I expect them to be able to do both this issue and improve performance

ACamaroGuy · May 2021

Iccotak wrote: »

ACamaroGuy wrote: »

This topic again. I view overland content as a place for beginners to level up. They complete quests, find sky shards and gain XP towards their end game content. The developers have a hard enough time keeping this game running smoothly, or as best as possible, with one mode for overland. Think of how fast the overland play is on this game. Do you honestly trust them to be able to give you a veteran version of overland along with normal and keep the game up and running it all?

What do you mean "This Topic Again?" it hasn't been on the front page for nearly a week - the only thing bringing this thread back to life is is your reply.
As to your questions;
If Story is only for beginners then that makes the New Story content (which is most of the content in the year) effectively worthless & Boring to ongoing characters who are beyond level 50. (not the case for all players but enough to be a rising issue and a frequent topic)

Also It's one thing if you are a new player - but after you've quested through 5+ zones you're no longer a "New Player" which is irritating when Zones are basically ALL beginner level easy.

The entire story experience does not need to be beginner level easy - it's like being only allowed to play on Novice difficulty in Skyrim, I could make my questing experience more challenging in that game. (and NO purposeful self nerf does not solve the issue no matter how many times people bring it up)

Too Hard isn't Fun, I get that, but Too Easy is also equally not as fun, if not less so. Most of my irl friends who left game because overland gameplay experience was too simple and easy which made the overall questing/leveling experience boring.

This design choice has also had some negative long term consequences - which I noted in a separate thread Here

Sarannah wrote: »

PPS: I have noticed more and more extremely low dps players using the veteran dungeonfinder the last week(s), as they are not taught anything in normal dungeons anymore. Fake tanks actually cause 'fake dps'.

You can also thank the rest of Overland for that as it doesn't ever really ask the player to get better. It just hands them every victory on a silver platter and pats them on the head.

There are more and more people who are not good at the game because most of the game doesn't challenge them to get better and when it finally does it is a complete 180 from the rest of their experience in the game.

Overland content is TOO Simple and lacks any mechanics or damage that pushes the player to actually pay attention - for dodging or bashing/interrupting, avoid the red areas, etc. the game does NOT punish the player for not paying attention.

It's one thing if its mobs - it makes sense for them to be simple but the "Bigger NPCs", Story Bosses, Delve Bosses? All of them are too basic. Only the Group Content in Overland - WB & Dolmen's - are actually a threat to the player. There is never any point where a player is like "Oh Crap a Troll, I better be careful"

So it is no wonder that we have an ever increasing population of players who are incapable of playing in the harder content because nothing else in the Solo content experience is remotely like it.
(EDIT: btw I am saying this as someone who predominately plays a tank character. I make some adjustments when doing overland content, so I can tell you that the general enemies don't do much of anything which is part of what makes those fights sooo Boring.

Fact is that Tanks and Healers are most times the only ones who have to consider to change builds/tactics for the context of a situation)

As to your performance question - this is not some indie game that's struggling to stay afloat, this is a successful mmo running 7 years now, that brings in the big buck to ZOS and now Microsoft - I expect them to be able to do both this issue and improve performance

LoL. The new stories tell the lore. I'm not for a veteran overland mode. At least until ZoS gets this version to run 100% first.

CP5 · May 2021

ACamaroGuy wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

ACamaroGuy wrote: »

This topic again. I view overland content as a place for beginners to level up. They complete quests, find sky shards and gain XP towards their end game content. The developers have a hard enough time keeping this game running smoothly, or as best as possible, with one mode for overland. Think of how fast the overland play is on this game. Do you honestly trust them to be able to give you a veteran version of overland along with normal and keep the game up and running it all?

What do you mean "This Topic Again?" it hasn't been on the front page for nearly a week - the only thing bringing this thread back to life is is your reply.
As to your questions;
If Story is only for beginners then that makes the New Story content (which is most of the content in the year) effectively worthless & Boring to ongoing characters who are beyond level 50. (not the case for all players but enough to be a rising issue and a frequent topic)

Also It's one thing if you are a new player - but after you've quested through 5+ zones you're no longer a "New Player" which is irritating when Zones are basically ALL beginner level easy.

The entire story experience does not need to be beginner level easy - it's like being only allowed to play on Novice difficulty in Skyrim, I could make my questing experience more challenging in that game. (and NO purposeful self nerf does not solve the issue no matter how many times people bring it up)

Too Hard isn't Fun, I get that, but Too Easy is also equally not as fun, if not less so. Most of my irl friends who left game because overland gameplay experience was too simple and easy which made the overall questing/leveling experience boring.

This design choice has also had some negative long term consequences - which I noted in a separate thread Here

Sarannah wrote: »

PPS: I have noticed more and more extremely low dps players using the veteran dungeonfinder the last week(s), as they are not taught anything in normal dungeons anymore. Fake tanks actually cause 'fake dps'.

You can also thank the rest of Overland for that as it doesn't ever really ask the player to get better. It just hands them every victory on a silver platter and pats them on the head.

There are more and more people who are not good at the game because most of the game doesn't challenge them to get better and when it finally does it is a complete 180 from the rest of their experience in the game.

Overland content is TOO Simple and lacks any mechanics or damage that pushes the player to actually pay attention - for dodging or bashing/interrupting, avoid the red areas, etc. the game does NOT punish the player for not paying attention.

It's one thing if its mobs - it makes sense for them to be simple but the "Bigger NPCs", Story Bosses, Delve Bosses? All of them are too basic. Only the Group Content in Overland - WB & Dolmen's - are actually a threat to the player. There is never any point where a player is like "Oh Crap a Troll, I better be careful"

So it is no wonder that we have an ever increasing population of players who are incapable of playing in the harder content because nothing else in the Solo content experience is remotely like it.
(EDIT: btw I am saying this as someone who predominately plays a tank character. I make some adjustments when doing overland content, so I can tell you that the general enemies don't do much of anything which is part of what makes those fights sooo Boring.

Fact is that Tanks and Healers are most times the only ones who have to consider to change builds/tactics for the context of a situation)

As to your performance question - this is not some indie game that's struggling to stay afloat, this is a successful mmo running 7 years now, that brings in the big buck to ZOS and now Microsoft - I expect them to be able to do both this issue and improve performance

LoL. The new stories tell the lore. I'm not for a veteran overland mode. At least until ZoS gets this version to run 100% first.

Hard to for some of us to get invested in a story when the 'big ancient evil threatening the world' couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag.

Iccotak · May 2021

ACamaroGuy wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

ACamaroGuy wrote: »

This topic again. I view overland content as a place for beginners to level up. They complete quests, find sky shards and gain XP towards their end game content. The developers have a hard enough time keeping this game running smoothly, or as best as possible, with one mode for overland. Think of how fast the overland play is on this game. Do you honestly trust them to be able to give you a veteran version of overland along with normal and keep the game up and running it all?

What do you mean "This Topic Again?" it hasn't been on the front page for nearly a week - the only thing bringing this thread back to life is is your reply.
As to your questions;
If Story is only for beginners then that makes the New Story content (which is most of the content in the year) effectively worthless & Boring to ongoing characters who are beyond level 50. (not the case for all players but enough to be a rising issue and a frequent topic)

Also It's one thing if you are a new player - but after you've quested through 5+ zones you're no longer a "New Player" which is irritating when Zones are basically ALL beginner level easy.

The entire story experience does not need to be beginner level easy - it's like being only allowed to play on Novice difficulty in Skyrim, I could make my questing experience more challenging in that game. (and NO purposeful self nerf does not solve the issue no matter how many times people bring it up)

Too Hard isn't Fun, I get that, but Too Easy is also equally not as fun, if not less so. Most of my irl friends who left game because overland gameplay experience was too simple and easy which made the overall questing/leveling experience boring.

This design choice has also had some negative long term consequences - which I noted in a separate thread Here

Sarannah wrote: »

PPS: I have noticed more and more extremely low dps players using the veteran dungeonfinder the last week(s), as they are not taught anything in normal dungeons anymore. Fake tanks actually cause 'fake dps'.

You can also thank the rest of Overland for that as it doesn't ever really ask the player to get better. It just hands them every victory on a silver platter and pats them on the head.

There are more and more people who are not good at the game because most of the game doesn't challenge them to get better and when it finally does it is a complete 180 from the rest of their experience in the game.

Overland content is TOO Simple and lacks any mechanics or damage that pushes the player to actually pay attention - for dodging or bashing/interrupting, avoid the red areas, etc. the game does NOT punish the player for not paying attention.

It's one thing if its mobs - it makes sense for them to be simple but the "Bigger NPCs", Story Bosses, Delve Bosses? All of them are too basic. Only the Group Content in Overland - WB & Dolmen's - are actually a threat to the player. There is never any point where a player is like "Oh Crap a Troll, I better be careful"

So it is no wonder that we have an ever increasing population of players who are incapable of playing in the harder content because nothing else in the Solo content experience is remotely like it.
(EDIT: btw I am saying this as someone who predominately plays a tank character. I make some adjustments when doing overland content, so I can tell you that the general enemies don't do much of anything which is part of what makes those fights sooo Boring.

Fact is that Tanks and Healers are most times the only ones who have to consider to change builds/tactics for the context of a situation)

As to your performance question - this is not some indie game that's struggling to stay afloat, this is a successful mmo running 7 years now, that brings in the big buck to ZOS and now Microsoft - I expect them to be able to do both this issue and improve performance

LoL. The new stories tell the lore. I'm not for a veteran overland mode. At least until ZoS gets this version to run 100% first.

New Lore is great - when the gameplay also supports it. Again, great thing about Skyrim and previous TES titles, End-of-World bad guys could actually feel like a threat. Enemies in the world could actually be a threat that made you have to think, thus engaged - which was definitely more fun for me than everyone being the same.

I apparently have to keep pointing out that this is NOT a point & click adventure, nor were the old TES games - this is an MMO centered around action oriented combat - killing & looting so then you can get better at killing, etc

Like it has been said over a hundred times, in a game like this story is not what solely matters - the gameplay is the other necessary half. When the gameplay is Too Simple & Easy then it makes it really hard to get invested in the storylines and therefore makes the experience LESS Fun overall.

The boss fights in Elsweyr were so bad and anti-climatic that it killed any momentum the story had built up. I seriously could not care less about the "Dark Heart of Skyrim" story because the Main Bad Guy was so simple and easy to beat, even with a lackluster build. Handing me my victories on a silver platter is not fun and it definitely is NOT something to look forward to.

It undermines the lore and makes them unmemorable. No one I know is like "But bro that Lore was so Good" - what I hear is "Who cares? That boss was easy" or "Let's just get this over with."

That is not just long time players saying this, but also the new players who eventually leave.

Jayroo · May 2021

I don't know why we cant at least make overland quest bosses 1shot like dungeons.

I can't think of a single time a new player has asked me "what the hell killed me" and I have to say, idk 1shot, and they go ?????. Because the game 9/10 doesnt tell you what killed you specifically, just a random monster and skill name which is useless. and usually the itsy bitsy tooltip in fine text says "dont die idiot" or something

ACamaroGuy · May 2021

Iccotak wrote: »

ACamaroGuy wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

ACamaroGuy wrote: »

This topic again. I view overland content as a place for beginners to level up. They complete quests, find sky shards and gain XP towards their end game content. The developers have a hard enough time keeping this game running smoothly, or as best as possible, with one mode for overland. Think of how fast the overland play is on this game. Do you honestly trust them to be able to give you a veteran version of overland along with normal and keep the game up and running it all?

What do you mean "This Topic Again?" it hasn't been on the front page for nearly a week - the only thing bringing this thread back to life is is your reply.
As to your questions;
If Story is only for beginners then that makes the New Story content (which is most of the content in the year) effectively worthless & Boring to ongoing characters who are beyond level 50. (not the case for all players but enough to be a rising issue and a frequent topic)

Also It's one thing if you are a new player - but after you've quested through 5+ zones you're no longer a "New Player" which is irritating when Zones are basically ALL beginner level easy.

The entire story experience does not need to be beginner level easy - it's like being only allowed to play on Novice difficulty in Skyrim, I could make my questing experience more challenging in that game. (and NO purposeful self nerf does not solve the issue no matter how many times people bring it up)

Too Hard isn't Fun, I get that, but Too Easy is also equally not as fun, if not less so. Most of my irl friends who left game because overland gameplay experience was too simple and easy which made the overall questing/leveling experience boring.

This design choice has also had some negative long term consequences - which I noted in a separate thread Here

Sarannah wrote: »

PPS: I have noticed more and more extremely low dps players using the veteran dungeonfinder the last week(s), as they are not taught anything in normal dungeons anymore. Fake tanks actually cause 'fake dps'.

You can also thank the rest of Overland for that as it doesn't ever really ask the player to get better. It just hands them every victory on a silver platter and pats them on the head.

There are more and more people who are not good at the game because most of the game doesn't challenge them to get better and when it finally does it is a complete 180 from the rest of their experience in the game.

Overland content is TOO Simple and lacks any mechanics or damage that pushes the player to actually pay attention - for dodging or bashing/interrupting, avoid the red areas, etc. the game does NOT punish the player for not paying attention.

It's one thing if its mobs - it makes sense for them to be simple but the "Bigger NPCs", Story Bosses, Delve Bosses? All of them are too basic. Only the Group Content in Overland - WB & Dolmen's - are actually a threat to the player. There is never any point where a player is like "Oh Crap a Troll, I better be careful"

So it is no wonder that we have an ever increasing population of players who are incapable of playing in the harder content because nothing else in the Solo content experience is remotely like it.
(EDIT: btw I am saying this as someone who predominately plays a tank character. I make some adjustments when doing overland content, so I can tell you that the general enemies don't do much of anything which is part of what makes those fights sooo Boring.

Fact is that Tanks and Healers are most times the only ones who have to consider to change builds/tactics for the context of a situation)

As to your performance question - this is not some indie game that's struggling to stay afloat, this is a successful mmo running 7 years now, that brings in the big buck to ZOS and now Microsoft - I expect them to be able to do both this issue and improve performance

LoL. The new stories tell the lore. I'm not for a veteran overland mode. At least until ZoS gets this version to run 100% first.

New Lore is great - when the gameplay also supports it. Again, great thing about Skyrim and previous TES titles, End-of-World bad guys could actually feel like a threat. Enemies in the world could actually be a threat that made you have to think, thus engaged - which was definitely more fun for me than everyone being the same.

I apparently have to keep pointing out that this is NOT a point & click adventure, nor were the old TES games - this is an MMO centered around action oriented combat - killing & looting so then you can get better at killing, etc

Like it has been said over a hundred times, in a game like this story is not what solely matters - the gameplay is the other necessary half. When the gameplay is Too Simple & Easy then it makes it really hard to get invested in the storylines and therefore makes the experience LESS Fun overall.

The boss fights in Elsweyr were so bad and anti-climatic that it killed any momentum the story had built up. I seriously could not care less about the "Dark Heart of Skyrim" story because the Main Bad Guy was so simple and easy to beat, even with a lackluster build. Handing me my victories on a silver platter is not fun and it definitely is NOT something to look forward to.

It undermines the lore and makes them unmemorable. No one I know is like "But bro that Lore was so Good" - what I hear is "Who cares? That boss was easy" or "Let's just get this over with."

That is not just long time players saying this, but also the new players who eventually leave.

So how about this then...you go write the code for a veteran overland play and sell it to ZoS. Just do a better job then they do. Problem solved.

ACamaroGuy · May 2021

CP5 wrote: »

ACamaroGuy wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

ACamaroGuy wrote: »

This topic again. I view overland content as a place for beginners to level up. They complete quests, find sky shards and gain XP towards their end game content. The developers have a hard enough time keeping this game running smoothly, or as best as possible, with one mode for overland. Think of how fast the overland play is on this game. Do you honestly trust them to be able to give you a veteran version of overland along with normal and keep the game up and running it all?

What do you mean "This Topic Again?" it hasn't been on the front page for nearly a week - the only thing bringing this thread back to life is is your reply.
As to your questions;
If Story is only for beginners then that makes the New Story content (which is most of the content in the year) effectively worthless & Boring to ongoing characters who are beyond level 50. (not the case for all players but enough to be a rising issue and a frequent topic)

Also It's one thing if you are a new player - but after you've quested through 5+ zones you're no longer a "New Player" which is irritating when Zones are basically ALL beginner level easy.

The entire story experience does not need to be beginner level easy - it's like being only allowed to play on Novice difficulty in Skyrim, I could make my questing experience more challenging in that game. (and NO purposeful self nerf does not solve the issue no matter how many times people bring it up)

Too Hard isn't Fun, I get that, but Too Easy is also equally not as fun, if not less so. Most of my irl friends who left game because overland gameplay experience was too simple and easy which made the overall questing/leveling experience boring.

This design choice has also had some negative long term consequences - which I noted in a separate thread Here

Sarannah wrote: »

PPS: I have noticed more and more extremely low dps players using the veteran dungeonfinder the last week(s), as they are not taught anything in normal dungeons anymore. Fake tanks actually cause 'fake dps'.

You can also thank the rest of Overland for that as it doesn't ever really ask the player to get better. It just hands them every victory on a silver platter and pats them on the head.

There are more and more people who are not good at the game because most of the game doesn't challenge them to get better and when it finally does it is a complete 180 from the rest of their experience in the game.

Overland content is TOO Simple and lacks any mechanics or damage that pushes the player to actually pay attention - for dodging or bashing/interrupting, avoid the red areas, etc. the game does NOT punish the player for not paying attention.

It's one thing if its mobs - it makes sense for them to be simple but the "Bigger NPCs", Story Bosses, Delve Bosses? All of them are too basic. Only the Group Content in Overland - WB & Dolmen's - are actually a threat to the player. There is never any point where a player is like "Oh Crap a Troll, I better be careful"

So it is no wonder that we have an ever increasing population of players who are incapable of playing in the harder content because nothing else in the Solo content experience is remotely like it.
(EDIT: btw I am saying this as someone who predominately plays a tank character. I make some adjustments when doing overland content, so I can tell you that the general enemies don't do much of anything which is part of what makes those fights sooo Boring.

Fact is that Tanks and Healers are most times the only ones who have to consider to change builds/tactics for the context of a situation)

As to your performance question - this is not some indie game that's struggling to stay afloat, this is a successful mmo running 7 years now, that brings in the big buck to ZOS and now Microsoft - I expect them to be able to do both this issue and improve performance

LoL. The new stories tell the lore. I'm not for a veteran overland mode. At least until ZoS gets this version to run 100% first.

Hard to for some of us to get invested in a story when the 'big ancient evil threatening the world' couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag.

LMAO! I know right. Level 12 new player comes in with jacked up armor sets and smashes the boss! What threat to Nirn were they really? LoL.

ACamaroGuy · May 2021

Jayroo wrote: »

I don't know why we cant at least make overland quest bosses 1shot like dungeons.

I can't think of a single time a new player has asked me "what the hell killed me" and I have to say, idk 1shot, and they go ?????. Because the game 9/10 doesnt tell you what killed you specifically, just a random monster and skill name which is useless. and usually the itsy bitsy tooltip in fine text says "dont die idiot" or something

I can agree with this. World bosses should be a tad harder to solo. If they should be soloed at all...

Iccotak · May 2021

ACamaroGuy wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

ACamaroGuy wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

ACamaroGuy wrote: »

This topic again. I view overland content as a place for beginners to level up. They complete quests, find sky shards and gain XP towards their end game content. The developers have a hard enough time keeping this game running smoothly, or as best as possible, with one mode for overland. Think of how fast the overland play is on this game. Do you honestly trust them to be able to give you a veteran version of overland along with normal and keep the game up and running it all?

What do you mean "This Topic Again?" it hasn't been on the front page for nearly a week - the only thing bringing this thread back to life is is your reply.
As to your questions;
If Story is only for beginners then that makes the New Story content (which is most of the content in the year) effectively worthless & Boring to ongoing characters who are beyond level 50. (not the case for all players but enough to be a rising issue and a frequent topic)

Also It's one thing if you are a new player - but after you've quested through 5+ zones you're no longer a "New Player" which is irritating when Zones are basically ALL beginner level easy.

The entire story experience does not need to be beginner level easy - it's like being only allowed to play on Novice difficulty in Skyrim, I could make my questing experience more challenging in that game. (and NO purposeful self nerf does not solve the issue no matter how many times people bring it up)

Too Hard isn't Fun, I get that, but Too Easy is also equally not as fun, if not less so. Most of my irl friends who left game because overland gameplay experience was too simple and easy which made the overall questing/leveling experience boring.

This design choice has also had some negative long term consequences - which I noted in a separate thread Here

Sarannah wrote: »

PPS: I have noticed more and more extremely low dps players using the veteran dungeonfinder the last week(s), as they are not taught anything in normal dungeons anymore. Fake tanks actually cause 'fake dps'.

You can also thank the rest of Overland for that as it doesn't ever really ask the player to get better. It just hands them every victory on a silver platter and pats them on the head.

There are more and more people who are not good at the game because most of the game doesn't challenge them to get better and when it finally does it is a complete 180 from the rest of their experience in the game.

Overland content is TOO Simple and lacks any mechanics or damage that pushes the player to actually pay attention - for dodging or bashing/interrupting, avoid the red areas, etc. the game does NOT punish the player for not paying attention.

It's one thing if its mobs - it makes sense for them to be simple but the "Bigger NPCs", Story Bosses, Delve Bosses? All of them are too basic. Only the Group Content in Overland - WB & Dolmen's - are actually a threat to the player. There is never any point where a player is like "Oh Crap a Troll, I better be careful"

So it is no wonder that we have an ever increasing population of players who are incapable of playing in the harder content because nothing else in the Solo content experience is remotely like it.
(EDIT: btw I am saying this as someone who predominately plays a tank character. I make some adjustments when doing overland content, so I can tell you that the general enemies don't do much of anything which is part of what makes those fights sooo Boring.

Fact is that Tanks and Healers are most times the only ones who have to consider to change builds/tactics for the context of a situation)

As to your performance question - this is not some indie game that's struggling to stay afloat, this is a successful mmo running 7 years now, that brings in the big buck to ZOS and now Microsoft - I expect them to be able to do both this issue and improve performance

LoL. The new stories tell the lore. I'm not for a veteran overland mode. At least until ZoS gets this version to run 100% first.

New Lore is great - when the gameplay also supports it. Again, great thing about Skyrim and previous TES titles, End-of-World bad guys could actually feel like a threat. Enemies in the world could actually be a threat that made you have to think, thus engaged - which was definitely more fun for me than everyone being the same.

I apparently have to keep pointing out that this is NOT a point & click adventure, nor were the old TES games - this is an MMO centered around action oriented combat - killing & looting so then you can get better at killing, etc

Like it has been said over a hundred times, in a game like this story is not what solely matters - the gameplay is the other necessary half. When the gameplay is Too Simple & Easy then it makes it really hard to get invested in the storylines and therefore makes the experience LESS Fun overall.

The boss fights in Elsweyr were so bad and anti-climatic that it killed any momentum the story had built up. I seriously could not care less about the "Dark Heart of Skyrim" story because the Main Bad Guy was so simple and easy to beat, even with a lackluster build. Handing me my victories on a silver platter is not fun and it definitely is NOT something to look forward to.

It undermines the lore and makes them unmemorable. No one I know is like "But bro that Lore was so Good" - what I hear is "Who cares? That boss was easy" or "Let's just get this over with."

That is not just long time players saying this, but also the new players who eventually leave.

So how about this then...you go write the code for a veteran overland play and sell it to ZoS. Just do a better job then they do. Problem solved.

I will reiterate what I said before when someone else said something along those lines - I am allowed to give feedback without having to be a developer. This is my feedback from the perspective of a consumer and a paying customer.

you can disagree with it, but just because I am not game developer does not invalidate my feedback on the issue.

ACamaroGuy wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

ACamaroGuy wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

ACamaroGuy wrote: »

This topic again. I view overland content as a place for beginners to level up. They complete quests, find sky shards and gain XP towards their end game content. The developers have a hard enough time keeping this game running smoothly, or as best as possible, with one mode for overland. Think of how fast the overland play is on this game. Do you honestly trust them to be able to give you a veteran version of overland along with normal and keep the game up and running it all?

What do you mean "This Topic Again?" it hasn't been on the front page for nearly a week - the only thing bringing this thread back to life is is your reply.
As to your questions;
If Story is only for beginners then that makes the New Story content (which is most of the content in the year) effectively worthless & Boring to ongoing characters who are beyond level 50. (not the case for all players but enough to be a rising issue and a frequent topic)

Also It's one thing if you are a new player - but after you've quested through 5+ zones you're no longer a "New Player" which is irritating when Zones are basically ALL beginner level easy.

The entire story experience does not need to be beginner level easy - it's like being only allowed to play on Novice difficulty in Skyrim, I could make my questing experience more challenging in that game. (and NO purposeful self nerf does not solve the issue no matter how many times people bring it up)

Too Hard isn't Fun, I get that, but Too Easy is also equally not as fun, if not less so. Most of my irl friends who left game because overland gameplay experience was too simple and easy which made the overall questing/leveling experience boring.

This design choice has also had some negative long term consequences - which I noted in a separate thread Here

Sarannah wrote: »

PPS: I have noticed more and more extremely low dps players using the veteran dungeonfinder the last week(s), as they are not taught anything in normal dungeons anymore. Fake tanks actually cause 'fake dps'.

You can also thank the rest of Overland for that as it doesn't ever really ask the player to get better. It just hands them every victory on a silver platter and pats them on the head.

There are more and more people who are not good at the game because most of the game doesn't challenge them to get better and when it finally does it is a complete 180 from the rest of their experience in the game.

Overland content is TOO Simple and lacks any mechanics or damage that pushes the player to actually pay attention - for dodging or bashing/interrupting, avoid the red areas, etc. the game does NOT punish the player for not paying attention.

It's one thing if its mobs - it makes sense for them to be simple but the "Bigger NPCs", Story Bosses, Delve Bosses? All of them are too basic. Only the Group Content in Overland - WB & Dolmen's - are actually a threat to the player. There is never any point where a player is like "Oh Crap a Troll, I better be careful"

So it is no wonder that we have an ever increasing population of players who are incapable of playing in the harder content because nothing else in the Solo content experience is remotely like it.
(EDIT: btw I am saying this as someone who predominately plays a tank character. I make some adjustments when doing overland content, so I can tell you that the general enemies don't do much of anything which is part of what makes those fights sooo Boring.

Fact is that Tanks and Healers are most times the only ones who have to consider to change builds/tactics for the context of a situation)

As to your performance question - this is not some indie game that's struggling to stay afloat, this is a successful mmo running 7 years now, that brings in the big buck to ZOS and now Microsoft - I expect them to be able to do both this issue and improve performance

LoL. The new stories tell the lore. I'm not for a veteran overland mode. At least until ZoS gets this version to run 100% first.

Hard to for some of us to get invested in a story when the 'big ancient evil threatening the world' couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag.

LMAO! I know right. Level 12 new player comes in with jacked up armor sets and smashes the boss! What threat to Nirn were they really? LoL.

you don't even need jacked up armor sets at low level to beat it. It's VERY beginner friendly because they don't hit hard and they have very simple mechanics

CP5 · May 2021

ACamaroGuy wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

ACamaroGuy wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

ACamaroGuy wrote: »

This topic again. I view overland content as a place for beginners to level up. They complete quests, find sky shards and gain XP towards their end game content. The developers have a hard enough time keeping this game running smoothly, or as best as possible, with one mode for overland. Think of how fast the overland play is on this game. Do you honestly trust them to be able to give you a veteran version of overland along with normal and keep the game up and running it all?

What do you mean "This Topic Again?" it hasn't been on the front page for nearly a week - the only thing bringing this thread back to life is is your reply.
As to your questions;
If Story is only for beginners then that makes the New Story content (which is most of the content in the year) effectively worthless & Boring to ongoing characters who are beyond level 50. (not the case for all players but enough to be a rising issue and a frequent topic)

Also It's one thing if you are a new player - but after you've quested through 5+ zones you're no longer a "New Player" which is irritating when Zones are basically ALL beginner level easy.

The entire story experience does not need to be beginner level easy - it's like being only allowed to play on Novice difficulty in Skyrim, I could make my questing experience more challenging in that game. (and NO purposeful self nerf does not solve the issue no matter how many times people bring it up)

Too Hard isn't Fun, I get that, but Too Easy is also equally not as fun, if not less so. Most of my irl friends who left game because overland gameplay experience was too simple and easy which made the overall questing/leveling experience boring.

This design choice has also had some negative long term consequences - which I noted in a separate thread Here

Sarannah wrote: »

PPS: I have noticed more and more extremely low dps players using the veteran dungeonfinder the last week(s), as they are not taught anything in normal dungeons anymore. Fake tanks actually cause 'fake dps'.

You can also thank the rest of Overland for that as it doesn't ever really ask the player to get better. It just hands them every victory on a silver platter and pats them on the head.

There are more and more people who are not good at the game because most of the game doesn't challenge them to get better and when it finally does it is a complete 180 from the rest of their experience in the game.

Overland content is TOO Simple and lacks any mechanics or damage that pushes the player to actually pay attention - for dodging or bashing/interrupting, avoid the red areas, etc. the game does NOT punish the player for not paying attention.

It's one thing if its mobs - it makes sense for them to be simple but the "Bigger NPCs", Story Bosses, Delve Bosses? All of them are too basic. Only the Group Content in Overland - WB & Dolmen's - are actually a threat to the player. There is never any point where a player is like "Oh Crap a Troll, I better be careful"

So it is no wonder that we have an ever increasing population of players who are incapable of playing in the harder content because nothing else in the Solo content experience is remotely like it.
(EDIT: btw I am saying this as someone who predominately plays a tank character. I make some adjustments when doing overland content, so I can tell you that the general enemies don't do much of anything which is part of what makes those fights sooo Boring.

Fact is that Tanks and Healers are most times the only ones who have to consider to change builds/tactics for the context of a situation)

As to your performance question - this is not some indie game that's struggling to stay afloat, this is a successful mmo running 7 years now, that brings in the big buck to ZOS and now Microsoft - I expect them to be able to do both this issue and improve performance

LoL. The new stories tell the lore. I'm not for a veteran overland mode. At least until ZoS gets this version to run 100% first.

New Lore is great - when the gameplay also supports it. Again, great thing about Skyrim and previous TES titles, End-of-World bad guys could actually feel like a threat. Enemies in the world could actually be a threat that made you have to think, thus engaged - which was definitely more fun for me than everyone being the same.

I apparently have to keep pointing out that this is NOT a point & click adventure, nor were the old TES games - this is an MMO centered around action oriented combat - killing & looting so then you can get better at killing, etc

Like it has been said over a hundred times, in a game like this story is not what solely matters - the gameplay is the other necessary half. When the gameplay is Too Simple & Easy then it makes it really hard to get invested in the storylines and therefore makes the experience LESS Fun overall.

The boss fights in Elsweyr were so bad and anti-climatic that it killed any momentum the story had built up. I seriously could not care less about the "Dark Heart of Skyrim" story because the Main Bad Guy was so simple and easy to beat, even with a lackluster build. Handing me my victories on a silver platter is not fun and it definitely is NOT something to look forward to.

It undermines the lore and makes them unmemorable. No one I know is like "But bro that Lore was so Good" - what I hear is "Who cares? That boss was easy" or "Let's just get this over with."

That is not just long time players saying this, but also the new players who eventually leave.

So how about this then...you go write the code for a veteran overland play and sell it to ZoS. Just do a better job then they do. Problem solved.

Because giving the enemies the ability to attack more than once every ten seconds is such an outlandish tech that they clearly don't have.

Psiion · May 2021

Greetings,

As this thread has run its course and is no longer constructive, we have decided to close it down. While we understand that disagreements may occur, provoking conflict, baiting, inciting, mocking, etc. is never acceptable in the official The Elder Scrolls Online community.

If there are any questions in regards to the rules, please feel free to review them here. Thank you for your understanding.