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Remove all snares from the game
pleximus
✭✭✭✭✭
This is my biggest gripe with the game BY FAR: snares! Remove them all from the game. They disrupt the game flow in a horrible manner. EVERY SINGLE NPC has a snare ability and they just draw out the fight unnecessarily. Note that I'm NOT referring to shield bash, teleport strikes or other "abilities" that are native to the npc class/playstyle. I'm talking about, for instance, enemies who "blow up" and have a snare pool the size of the Pacific Ocean! I don't want to spend the next 10-20 seconds trying to get out of the damn snare pool! ANYTHING that hinders the battle flow is NOT a good thing!
I understand the need to make the fights more challenging but an npc with 30k-60k health will not pose a threat of any kind no matter what skills you give it. You're just drawing out the fight with snares and it's extremely frustrating to be spam snared by group mobs. I've lost count of how many snare forms there are in this game but some that come to mind are: snare pools, roots/thorns, chilled, "rune cage", THE WOLF, etc. I don't know the names of all snares but I have the visuals are very much alive and well in my brain.
Snares are the main reason why I've been playing PvE less and less. I DESPISE stupid mechanics that destroy the battle flow and ZOS has taken snares to beyond space and infinity. PLEASE REMOVE SNARES FROM THE GAME!! I want to play PvE again without experiencing the frustration that makes me toxic beyond belief and makes me want to b*** m* b***** o**!
I understand the need to make the fights more challenging but an npc with 30k-60k health will not pose a threat of any kind no matter what skills you give it. You're just drawing out the fight with snares and it's extremely frustrating to be spam snared by group mobs. I've lost count of how many snare forms there are in this game but some that come to mind are: snare pools, roots/thorns, chilled, "rune cage", THE WOLF, etc. I don't know the names of all snares but I have the visuals are very much alive and well in my brain.
Snares are the main reason why I've been playing PvE less and less. I DESPISE stupid mechanics that destroy the battle flow and ZOS has taken snares to beyond space and infinity. PLEASE REMOVE SNARES FROM THE GAME!! I want to play PvE again without experiencing the frustration that makes me toxic beyond belief and makes me want to b*** m* b***** o**!
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Ackwalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Agree to a point. I hate it when you are moving around and you don't even realize you are being chased, until they do their parting shot (which hinders movement) then run away.2 -
Klad✭✭✭✭
It was a joke no need to be angry...but since you asked passives can be irritating to a certain type of player, but not to everyone If they legitimately make you that mad, maybe you should take a break...The slow snares should be shorter, but that doesn't mean getting rid of the entire system.
The goal should be make them more challenging and less irritating.3 -
Goregrinder✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Snares, roots, stuns, CC in general have been a staple part of MMORPG's since the 90's, and ESO is an MMORPG. The game offers players ways to hard and soft counter CC's, and is a contributing factor to the player skill ceiling in PVP.6 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I am generally going to be in the camp of "leave core combat mechanics alone", but I could get on bored with vastly reducing the number of snares in this game. There is nothing worse than feeling like you are playing in quicksand.
Another solution would be to give a more of a direct counter to a snare in base combat similar to break free. Yes there are things to remove snares, but all come at the cost of gear, potions, class skills, etc, that arent always realistic have. One thought would be that dodge roll would give an immunity, but it would come at more cost depending on how much you are snared. Dodge roll is already insanely powerful, so maybe not the best idea, but its something. You could even do something with sprint. Allow sprint to remove snares while sprinting, but come at a significantly increased cost if you are snared. That would allow you to get out of those pesky snare AOEs for some stamina.
Lets also not forgot that Imov pots are about as reliable as a khajiit guarding your skooma supply. I cant tell you how many times I have cast an imov pot then been immediately stunned or snared, or popped one while snared and NOTHING happens.Edited by Oreyn_Bearclaw on April 16, 2021 9:15PM4 -
pleximus✭✭✭✭✭Goregrinder wrote: »Snares, roots, stuns, CC in general have been a staple part of MMORPG's since the 90's, and ESO is an MMORPG. The game offers players ways to hard and soft counter CC's, and is a contributing factor to the player skill ceiling in PVP.
I'm not talking about pvp, I'm talking about npc's using snares or blowing up into a snare. And just because games have implemented this demented feature does NOT make it a good one! Again, disrupting the battle flow is never a good thing. There has to be other ways to make fights actually challenging instead of aggravating.6 -
pleximus✭✭✭✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »I am generally going to be in the camp of "leave core combat mechanics alone", but I could get on bored with vastly reducing the number of snares in this game. There is nothing worse than feeling like you are playing in quicksand.
Another solution would be to give a more of a direct counter to a snare in base combat similar to break free. Yes there are things to remove snares, but all come at the cost of gear, potions, class skills, etc, that arent always realistic have. One thought would be that dodge roll would give an immunity, but it would come at more cost depending on how much you are snared. Dodge roll is already insanely powerful, so maybe not the best idea, but its something. You could even do something with sprint. Allow sprint to remove snares while sprinting, but come at a significantly increased cost if you are snared. That would allow you to get out of those pesky snare AOEs for some stamina.
Lets also not forgot that Imov pots are about as reliable as a khajiit guarding your skooma supply. I cant tell you how many times I have cast an imov pot then been immediately stunned or snared, or popped one while snared and NOTHING happens.
I hate Immovable pots. I hate hate HATE them! Those things work maybe 3 out of 10 times ffs! You take the damn pot and you STILL get snared or trapped in all kinds of cc's! What in the actual hell is that?!?
There has to be ways to make fights more challenging that does NOT involve the player playing in actual slowmotion.3 -
pleximus✭✭✭✭✭dinokstrunz wrote: »remove pets/Blastbones hamstring and make dragon leap snare cleansable. Done.
I'm not talking about players, I'm referring to PvE npc's.0 -
pleximus✭✭✭✭✭Also, LOGIC; this one is the most bizarre beauty of them all: FEAR.
I killed Molag Bal, A DAEDRA LORD, so what in the actual living hell makes you think that an npc Fear should work on me?? I hate hate hate that snare/cc!1 -
Goregrinder✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Goregrinder wrote: »Snares, roots, stuns, CC in general have been a staple part of MMORPG's since the 90's, and ESO is an MMORPG. The game offers players ways to hard and soft counter CC's, and is a contributing factor to the player skill ceiling in PVP.
I'm not talking about pvp, I'm talking about npc's using snares or blowing up into a snare. And just because games have implemented this demented feature does NOT make it a good one! Again, disrupting the battle flow is never a good thing. There has to be other ways to make fights actually challenging instead of aggravating.
It's not actually disrupting the flow of combat, it's simply just part of the flow of combat. Getting interrupted or temporarily stopped is just the nature of NPC's. Since they can't ever be as smart as a human character, they have to have some sort of action that can counter what the player is doing.3 -
pleximus✭✭✭✭✭Goregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »Snares, roots, stuns, CC in general have been a staple part of MMORPG's since the 90's, and ESO is an MMORPG. The game offers players ways to hard and soft counter CC's, and is a contributing factor to the player skill ceiling in PVP.
I'm not talking about pvp, I'm talking about npc's using snares or blowing up into a snare. And just because games have implemented this demented feature does NOT make it a good one! Again, disrupting the battle flow is never a good thing. There has to be other ways to make fights actually challenging instead of aggravating.
It's not actually disrupting the flow of combat, it's simply just part of the flow of combat. Getting interrupted or temporarily stopped is just the nature of NPC's. Since they can't ever be as smart as a human character, they have to have some sort of action that can counter what the player is doing.
So this is acceptable to you: an npc blowing up, creating a snare pool the size of an ocean which takes you 10-20 seconds to get out of? Or when you're about to fight some npc's and you get snared. 3-6 seconds later when you're out of it, you get snared again. You view this as a natural flow of the battle system? Really?3 -
Goregrinder✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Goregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »Snares, roots, stuns, CC in general have been a staple part of MMORPG's since the 90's, and ESO is an MMORPG. The game offers players ways to hard and soft counter CC's, and is a contributing factor to the player skill ceiling in PVP.
I'm not talking about pvp, I'm talking about npc's using snares or blowing up into a snare. And just because games have implemented this demented feature does NOT make it a good one! Again, disrupting the battle flow is never a good thing. There has to be other ways to make fights actually challenging instead of aggravating.
It's not actually disrupting the flow of combat, it's simply just part of the flow of combat. Getting interrupted or temporarily stopped is just the nature of NPC's. Since they can't ever be as smart as a human character, they have to have some sort of action that can counter what the player is doing.
So this is acceptable to you: an npc blowing up, creating a snare pool the size of an ocean which takes you 10-20 seconds to get out of? Or when you're about to fight some npc's and you get snared. 3-6 seconds later when you're out of it, you get snared again. You view this as a natural flow of the battle system? Really?
Yeah, I don't really find it to be a big inconvenience. I usually just dodge roll out or break-free, or pre cast HoTs when I expect to take a lot of spike damage, etc. It's very similar to getting mezzed in DAoC, or hard stunned in SWG. I guess I am just used to it at this point.1 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Goregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »Snares, roots, stuns, CC in general have been a staple part of MMORPG's since the 90's, and ESO is an MMORPG. The game offers players ways to hard and soft counter CC's, and is a contributing factor to the player skill ceiling in PVP.
I'm not talking about pvp, I'm talking about npc's using snares or blowing up into a snare. And just because games have implemented this demented feature does NOT make it a good one! Again, disrupting the battle flow is never a good thing. There has to be other ways to make fights actually challenging instead of aggravating.
It's not actually disrupting the flow of combat, it's simply just part of the flow of combat. Getting interrupted or temporarily stopped is just the nature of NPC's. Since they can't ever be as smart as a human character, they have to have some sort of action that can counter what the player is doing.
So this is acceptable to you: an npc blowing up, creating a snare pool the size of an ocean which takes you 10-20 seconds to get out of? Or when you're about to fight some npc's and you get snared. 3-6 seconds later when you're out of it, you get snared again. You view this as a natural flow of the battle system? Really?
A roll dodge will get you out of the area of affect of most the snares that happen on NPC death. Other snares can you can interrupt. Can get annoying when the perfect storm of back to back to back snares happen but that is just part of doing battle.and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."3 -
Sanctum74✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Goregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »Snares, roots, stuns, CC in general have been a staple part of MMORPG's since the 90's, and ESO is an MMORPG. The game offers players ways to hard and soft counter CC's, and is a contributing factor to the player skill ceiling in PVP.
I'm not talking about pvp, I'm talking about npc's using snares or blowing up into a snare. And just because games have implemented this demented feature does NOT make it a good one! Again, disrupting the battle flow is never a good thing. There has to be other ways to make fights actually challenging instead of aggravating.
It's not actually disrupting the flow of combat, it's simply just part of the flow of combat. Getting interrupted or temporarily stopped is just the nature of NPC's. Since they can't ever be as smart as a human character, they have to have some sort of action that can counter what the player is doing.
So this is acceptable to you: an npc blowing up, creating a snare pool the size of an ocean which takes you 10-20 seconds to get out of? Or when you're about to fight some npc's and you get snared. 3-6 seconds later when you're out of it, you get snared again. You view this as a natural flow of the battle system? Really?
It doesn’t take 10-20 seconds, just 1 second to activate shuffle, forward momentum, race against time, mist form, purge, or use a potion or poison.
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pleximus✭✭✭✭✭Goregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »Snares, roots, stuns, CC in general have been a staple part of MMORPG's since the 90's, and ESO is an MMORPG. The game offers players ways to hard and soft counter CC's, and is a contributing factor to the player skill ceiling in PVP.
I'm not talking about pvp, I'm talking about npc's using snares or blowing up into a snare. And just because games have implemented this demented feature does NOT make it a good one! Again, disrupting the battle flow is never a good thing. There has to be other ways to make fights actually challenging instead of aggravating.
It's not actually disrupting the flow of combat, it's simply just part of the flow of combat. Getting interrupted or temporarily stopped is just the nature of NPC's. Since they can't ever be as smart as a human character, they have to have some sort of action that can counter what the player is doing.
So this is acceptable to you: an npc blowing up, creating a snare pool the size of an ocean which takes you 10-20 seconds to get out of? Or when you're about to fight some npc's and you get snared. 3-6 seconds later when you're out of it, you get snared again. You view this as a natural flow of the battle system? Really?
It doesn’t take 10-20 seconds, just 1 second to activate shuffle, forward momentum, race against time, mist form, purge, or use a potion or poison.
Have you been in the Sewers? You're in the middle of a fight where npc's are dragged in, killed and blows up into a massive pool that covers the entire area. Good luck surviving when your stamina is drained from roll dodging your way out from the center of it. Also, like another one mentioned, Immovable pots are useless. The rest of the skills, not all of us have room in our skill bar for them. We actually use other skills? And why would I use a poison to get out of poison?0 -
pleximus✭✭✭✭✭Goregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »Snares, roots, stuns, CC in general have been a staple part of MMORPG's since the 90's, and ESO is an MMORPG. The game offers players ways to hard and soft counter CC's, and is a contributing factor to the player skill ceiling in PVP.
I'm not talking about pvp, I'm talking about npc's using snares or blowing up into a snare. And just because games have implemented this demented feature does NOT make it a good one! Again, disrupting the battle flow is never a good thing. There has to be other ways to make fights actually challenging instead of aggravating.
It's not actually disrupting the flow of combat, it's simply just part of the flow of combat. Getting interrupted or temporarily stopped is just the nature of NPC's. Since they can't ever be as smart as a human character, they have to have some sort of action that can counter what the player is doing.
So this is acceptable to you: an npc blowing up, creating a snare pool the size of an ocean which takes you 10-20 seconds to get out of? Or when you're about to fight some npc's and you get snared. 3-6 seconds later when you're out of it, you get snared again. You view this as a natural flow of the battle system? Really?
Yeah, I don't really find it to be a big inconvenience. I usually just dodge roll out or break-free, or pre cast HoTs when I expect to take a lot of spike damage, etc. It's very similar to getting mezzed in DAoC, or hard stunned in SWG. I guess I am just used to it at this point.
I don't know how you can get used to it. Been playing the game for years and the snares keep getting worse and worse. Every bloody npc has a snare! I'm just not enjoying PvE any longer because of it. Haven't even done the main quest lines of the expansions. If something bothers/frustrates me then it makes me toxic which makes me avoid the thing that makes me toxic, i.e. PvE.1 -
maxjapank✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭This is my biggest gripe with the game BY FAR: snares! Remove them all from the game. They disrupt the game flow in a horrible manner. EVERY SINGLE NPC has a snare ability and they just draw out the fight unnecessarily.
Interestingly, the game actually added more snares to some mobs early on to keep people from grinding too fast.0 -
marshill88✭✭✭✭No!
[snip]
After further thought, I agree with the OP, 100%. Overland PVE is already too easy, and I think snares are ZOE's way of adding challenge to PVE. But its a cop-out way to do it.
I mean, think about it, if you remove snares, imagine how much easier PVE would be. And this is the problem. PVE is poorly implemented by ZOS. AI is just no-good. Snares are a cheap way to add challenge to an already way too easy combat system.
I think PVE enemies indeed need an overhaul in how they fight us.
Snares are a weak, feeble attempt to add challenge to PVE. Make smarter enemies, make combat challenging without annoying snares, which are a debacle to me. I agree that running through a red circle at 1/100 speed is just horrid.
[Edited to remove Baiting]Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on April 17, 2021 1:20PM1 -
Sanctum74✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Goregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »Snares, roots, stuns, CC in general have been a staple part of MMORPG's since the 90's, and ESO is an MMORPG. The game offers players ways to hard and soft counter CC's, and is a contributing factor to the player skill ceiling in PVP.
I'm not talking about pvp, I'm talking about npc's using snares or blowing up into a snare. And just because games have implemented this demented feature does NOT make it a good one! Again, disrupting the battle flow is never a good thing. There has to be other ways to make fights actually challenging instead of aggravating.
It's not actually disrupting the flow of combat, it's simply just part of the flow of combat. Getting interrupted or temporarily stopped is just the nature of NPC's. Since they can't ever be as smart as a human character, they have to have some sort of action that can counter what the player is doing.
So this is acceptable to you: an npc blowing up, creating a snare pool the size of an ocean which takes you 10-20 seconds to get out of? Or when you're about to fight some npc's and you get snared. 3-6 seconds later when you're out of it, you get snared again. You view this as a natural flow of the battle system? Really?
It doesn’t take 10-20 seconds, just 1 second to activate shuffle, forward momentum, race against time, mist form, purge, or use a potion or poison.
Have you been in the Sewers? You're in the middle of a fight where npc's are dragged in, killed and blows up into a massive pool that covers the entire area. Good luck surviving when your stamina is drained from roll dodging your way out from the center of it. Also, like another one mentioned, Immovable pots are useless. The rest of the skills, not all of us have room in our skill bar for them. We actually use other skills? And why would I use a poison to get out of poison?
Just pointing out there are many counters, I don’t think Zos is going to change it just because you don’t want to use them.
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Athan1✭✭✭✭✭
✭The problem with CC is that it's bugged. I have a stamina and with full stamina he often can't break free. Also I can't swap bar to use my purge. So I'm stuck there taking it like an idiot while I can't do anything.
Also CC is used whenever they want to make a mechanic "fun". It's everywhere and definitely not fun!Athan Atticus Imperial Templar of Shezarr1 -
Redguards_Revenge✭✭✭✭I just love that boss guar in deshaan that makes me sit down 24/7. No CC cool down whatsoever...Just me being sat down 24/7. Breaking free I think ramps up cost...roll dodging ramps up cost.
As a templar redguard ...I would want all immovabilites, snares, roots, etc. (Except stuns) to be removed from the game.
I grow tired of zos ruining templar. First they removed snare from templar circle....ok...Then they removed the healing from it....All while keeping paid classes overpowered.
In hopes of nerfing Magplar, they destroy stamplar and put nothing as a replacement. Templar has no CC immovabilites or snares. Only that worthless sphere circle that last for 4 seconds. They removed the sit down from the shards.
TEMPLAR NEEDS A OVERHAUL NOW! But knowing zos they'll nerf it some more and come out with another templar class and rename it something else.4 -
pleximus✭✭✭✭✭This is my biggest gripe with the game BY FAR: snares! Remove them all from the game. They disrupt the game flow in a horrible manner. EVERY SINGLE NPC has a snare ability and they just draw out the fight unnecessarily.
Interestingly, the game actually added more snares to some mobs early on to keep people from grinding too fast.
I don't know, maybe people prefer the snares... For me personally, it's made me UGH. Yup, that's the correct "word" - UGH. I prefer a more dynamic battle system and flow to the lazy mechanic that is snare.1 -
Jeffrey530✭✭✭✭The rest of the skills, not all of us have room in our skill bar for them. We actually use other skills? And why would I use a poison to get out of poison?
There are so many counters to snares in the game as others mentioned, but you chose not to use them.
What's next? I don't wanna slot heal so please remove all damage dealing skills from enemies?3 -
pleximus✭✭✭✭✭marshill88 wrote: »No!
[snip]
After further thought, I agree with the OP, 100%. Overland PVE is already too easy, and I think snares are ZOE's way of adding challenge to PVE. But its a cop-out way to do it.
I mean, think about it, if you remove snares, imagine how much easier PVE would be. And this is the problem. PVE is poorly implemented by ZOS. AI is just no-good. Snares are a cheap way to add challenge to an already way too easy combat system.
I think PVE enemies indeed need an overhaul in how they fight us.
Snares are a weak, feeble attempt to add challenge to PVE. Make smarter enemies, make combat challenging without annoying snares, which are a debacle to me. I agree that running through a red circle at 1/100 speed is just horrid.
I completely agree with every word.Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on April 17, 2021 1:21PM0 -
pleximus✭✭✭✭✭Jeffrey530 wrote: »The rest of the skills, not all of us have room in our skill bar for them. We actually use other skills? And why would I use a poison to get out of poison?
There are so many counters to snares in the game as others mentioned, but you chose not to use them.
What's next? I don't wanna slot heal so please remove all damage dealing skills from enemies?
So I should slot all skills that makes the game bearable? Is that your solution? The thing that could solve this gripe are Immovable pots (which don't require a slot) but they are as reliable as, like someone said, a khajit watching over your skooma. I don't want to feel like I'm stuck in glue, trying to claw my way out after a fight is done.2
