Claiming those who want to solo are selfish is bunk, at least in the implications it gives.

I am in several quite good guilds, but still tend to solo, just chipping in a fair bit of gold each week.

This sounds like the arguments from the hardcore group crowd in WoW that argued against PUGs and such, because it didn't build "community" whatever that is.

The bus has long left that station. Give it a rest. Many (most?) of us would not be here if grouping was forced and truly required.

I play games to enjoy myself, not to stress myself out. I am more of a loner in real life and online. Forcing me to change that would just get me to spend my time and money on something else.

Do all the hardcore "you must group" players think losing all the income from those of us who solo (I am and ESO+ player and will be until I stop playing) really be a good thing? I am not as old as some in the thread, but I am closer to the end of life than the beginning (unless some massive medical breakthroughs happen).

I have gamed since Pong, so I have experienced many different things. Forcing grouping will not pull my interest or money. Yes, I look out for myself, but so does everyone else, even if they work with a group.

I don't believe I have done a single raid in ESO. Perhaps I will in the future, but I am not holding my breath waiting for that.

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't want to give the wrong idea with this thread. I absolutely think that some aspects of the game should require groups. A lot of players want an increased challenge and rewards and that's what veteran content is for.

On the same hand though I don't think it would be bad to have solo dungeons and trials with scaled down drops so everyone can enjoy every aspect of the game.

The players who play solo will continue to play solo, and the end game players will continue to group for veteran content. I see no downside to this.

Less people for queues, for one. (not a good idea)

Nowa133 wrote: »

Less people for queues, for one. (not a good idea)

I have a feeling many, many players who want solo dungeons for the story do not join the queues anyway, so I don't see why there would be fewer people in the queues, especially if the loot isn't all that great.

I mean, isn't the loot the main reason people join groups and do dungeons over and over?

The loot isn't what's important to most of those who want solo dungeons. If it was, they would be joining the queues and running the dungeons now and not asking for a solo version.

I know I have never had interest in grouping up and running dungeons. Nothing has ever changed that. I don't care what kind of loot they put in there (mounts, houses, etc.). I still wouldn't run them because they just don't interest me.

Solo version with crappy loot? I'd jump on that.

Zorgon_The_Revenged wrote: »

Wait...are we getting solo dungeons?

No. It was just something that was brought up and debated a bit while part of the overall conversation about MMO versus solo players.

Nowa133 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't want to give the wrong idea with this thread. I absolutely think that some aspects of the game should require groups. A lot of players want an increased challenge and rewards and that's what veteran content is for.

On the same hand though I don't think it would be bad to have solo dungeons and trials with scaled down drops so everyone can enjoy every aspect of the game.

The players who play solo will continue to play solo, and the end game players will continue to group for veteran content. I see no downside to this.

Less people for queues, for one. (not a good idea)

About an hour in some of the Zone chats will give you a better example of why there are less people for queues. Fake tanks, fake healers, subpar DPS, all things you're likely to see in some zone chats. Just the other day, now that I mention it, I saw a healer player going on and on about a fake tank in the queue. I say on and on because I left the zone for a delve, and when I came back 10 minutes later, he was still going.

Then there's "what are you hitting the queue as". Aside from the disproportionate number of DPS that are likely in the queue, there's a scarcity of tanks and heals, or of one or the other that, as a general rule of thumb, will increase wait times for those DPS players.

My favorite example of this is from swtor, but the basic philosophy is the same. My guild leader and I hit a queue grouped as DPS. After 45 minutes of waiting, I swapped to my tank, and he to his healer, and the pop was almost instant. We didn't get it, however, because one of the DPS in the group evidently fell asleep while waiting, and missed the pop. The second pop took less than a minute. Same game, same night, the only thing that changed were the classes we registered as in the queue.

That situation isn't unique to swtor. My DPS spec'd chanter in Aion was thrust into a dredge group as the healer, for the same reason. No clerics hitting the queue for a PuG. There's some videos on YouTube by the HiveMinded, I think, "So you've decided to play a (insert trinity role here), Congratulations". They were posted in or around 2013, that covers a list of reasons why some people may not be doing PuGs on their tanks and healers, albeit in a more comedic frame of reference, but none the less accurate for the general MMO crowd.

laurajf wrote: »

Nowa133 wrote: »

Less people for queues, for one. (not a good idea)

I have a feeling many, many players who want solo dungeons for the story do not join the queues anyway, so I don't see why there would be fewer people in the queues, especially if the loot isn't all that great.

I mean, isn't the loot the main reason people join groups and do dungeons over and over?

The loot isn't what's important to most of those who want solo dungeons. If it was, they would be joining the queues and running the dungeons now and not asking for a solo version.

I know I have never had interest in grouping up and running dungeons. Nothing has ever changed that. I don't care what kind of loot they put in there (mounts, houses, etc.). I still wouldn't run them because they just don't interest me.

Solo version with crappy loot? I'd jump on that.

While I agree that players who want solo dungeons are already not in the queues (as I am, for example, as I do dungeons on rare cases only with the guild or solo), I am not that convinced about loot. The thing is DLC dungeons are a payed content. Would I want to buy DLC dungeon for the same price as it is now and get only 5-minute quest and no meaningful loot? Definitely not. For a price 5 times less? Maybe, depending on the dungeon.

I said it before, but it didn't catch.

If all content in the game was designed to accessible to solo players, then why are they playing an online game to begin with? If they do not want to group with people, then why not just play a single player offline game?

robertthebard wrote: »

Olauron wrote: »

laurajf wrote: »

Nowa133 wrote: »

Less people for queues, for one. (not a good idea)

I have a feeling many, many players who want solo dungeons for the story do not join the queues anyway, so I don't see why there would be fewer people in the queues, especially if the loot isn't all that great.

I mean, isn't the loot the main reason people join groups and do dungeons over and over?

The loot isn't what's important to most of those who want solo dungeons. If it was, they would be joining the queues and running the dungeons now and not asking for a solo version.

I know I have never had interest in grouping up and running dungeons. Nothing has ever changed that. I don't care what kind of loot they put in there (mounts, houses, etc.). I still wouldn't run them because they just don't interest me.

Solo version with crappy loot? I'd jump on that.

While I agree that players who want solo dungeons are already not in the queues (as I am, for example, as I do dungeons on rare cases only with the guild or solo), I am not that convinced about loot. The thing is DLC dungeons are a payed content. Would I want to buy DLC dungeon for the same price as it is now and get only 5-minute quest and no meaningful loot? Definitely not. For a price 5 times less? Maybe, depending on the dungeon.

The problem I have with this is that each package tells you exactly what's in it. If you look at something and see value in it, and buy it, there's no obligation to provide any value outside of what was provided, and there shouldn't be. Some may see this as inconsistent, but I really see no reason to make solo instances of group content.

Well, if players have not bought content yet, they see no value.
Though for now I don't actually see a reason to specifically make solo instances of group content, if a companion would be at least as good as a bad player. That would be a 2 time increase in "solo power" and that would likely be enough for most dungeons.

kathandira wrote: »

I said it before, but it didn't catch.

If all content in the game was designed to accessible to solo players, then why are they playing an online game to begin with? If they do not want to group with people, then why not just play a single player offline game?

Because they like the world? Quests? Lore? The ability to socialize if they want, and solo when they don't? Why should an online game be different than a single player? Do you equate online with everyone having to hold hands to take 3 steps like EQ did 20 years ago? Does online mean forced grouping to you? MMO is simply that. We're all in the same world at the same time. Grouping/solo/crafting/housing all are optional

Olauron wrote: »

robertthebard wrote: »

Olauron wrote: »

laurajf wrote: »

Nowa133 wrote: »

Less people for queues, for one. (not a good idea)

I have a feeling many, many players who want solo dungeons for the story do not join the queues anyway, so I don't see why there would be fewer people in the queues, especially if the loot isn't all that great.

I mean, isn't the loot the main reason people join groups and do dungeons over and over?

The loot isn't what's important to most of those who want solo dungeons. If it was, they would be joining the queues and running the dungeons now and not asking for a solo version.

I know I have never had interest in grouping up and running dungeons. Nothing has ever changed that. I don't care what kind of loot they put in there (mounts, houses, etc.). I still wouldn't run them because they just don't interest me.

Solo version with crappy loot? I'd jump on that.

While I agree that players who want solo dungeons are already not in the queues (as I am, for example, as I do dungeons on rare cases only with the guild or solo), I am not that convinced about loot. The thing is DLC dungeons are a payed content. Would I want to buy DLC dungeon for the same price as it is now and get only 5-minute quest and no meaningful loot? Definitely not. For a price 5 times less? Maybe, depending on the dungeon.

The problem I have with this is that each package tells you exactly what's in it. If you look at something and see value in it, and buy it, there's no obligation to provide any value outside of what was provided, and there shouldn't be. Some may see this as inconsistent, but I really see no reason to make solo instances of group content.

Well, if players have not bought content yet, they see no value.
Though for now I don't actually see a reason to specifically make solo instances of group content, if a companion would be at least as good as a bad player. That would be a 2 time increase in "solo power" and that would likely be enough for most dungeons.

I agree, if they're not buying it, it hasn't got anything they want. I'm cool with that, and I don't buy everything I see for that very reason.

Maybe it will encourage more to shoot for at least a duo. I missed an invitation to a group yesterday, not because I was ignoring the player, but because I'm sub 300 CP, and so, when I'm soloing, I have to pay close attention to what's going on. Too bad, really, that's how I've gotten into a lot of guilds over the years, including the one I used to be in here, before I became Captain Sporadic logging in.

I thought the whole point of MMO's is cooperative gameplay. I think solo content is fine but it becomes a problem when the multiplayer part is neglected and solo becomes the focus. It's like playing Solitaire with UNO cards.

Alurria wrote: »

Let's be honest, those who want dungeons to remain group content only are the ones who go to the town square to show off their shiny new armor or weapon. It's about loot for them. Here's a news flash most soloers don't care about the newest shiny armor or weapon. You see not everyone's goals are the same in these games.

By denying a soloers a chance to experience group content gains a person who soley groups nothing. As for my belief having scaling content would be a better solution with scaling rewards. A MMO does not have to linear in it's depth and scope. It shouldn't be because then it would become stale. Options are a good thing.

OK, I'm going to be honest: I don't have any shiny armor or weapons to show off that can't be crafted through overland sets.

Alurria wrote: »

Let's be honest, those who want dungeons to remain group content only are the ones who go to the town square to show off their shiny new armor or weapon. It's about loot for them. Here's a news flash most soloers don't care about the newest shiny armor or weapon. You see not everyone's goals are the same in these games.

By denying a soloers a chance to experience group content gains a person who soley groups nothing. As for my belief having scaling content would be a better solution with scaling rewards. A MMO does not have to linear in it's depth and scope. It shouldn't be because then it would become stale. Options are a good thing.

Well, let's be honest, solo players are different. I am a solo player, but I like my altmer templar with Siroria - Galerion - Earthgore. I don't do dungeons, but it is good to proc Earthgore with jabs in some public dungeon or on geyser, and the best thing is these sets are completely within the theme of the character.

A_Silverius wrote: »

I thought the whole point of MMO's is cooperative gameplay.

Cooperative gameplay is an option, but it's not the only option. Overland content is tailored to solo play because most players want to experience the storyline at their own pace. When is the last time you grouped up for overland quests?

Cooperative gameplay comes into play with harder content, like World Bosses, Harrowstorms, Dungeons and Trials. It's still there and still relevant, but not the main focus unless that is your personal focus. Not everyone is into that aspect of the game.