What an MMO is

SilverBride

MMO
noun
an online video game which can be played by a very large number of people simultaneously.

This is what it is. This is all it is.

I am honestly over the arguement that playing an MMO means you need to actively play with others all the time. Players may choose to group for dungeons, trials, world bosses, Harrowstorms, etc., but they are in no way obligated to do so. They have complete free will how they want to play.

If someone chooses to log on and spend the day playing solo that does not in any way diminish the fact that multiple others are playing at the same time, or make it any less of an MMO. Nor does it mean that those playing solo aren't playing the game right. Yet I see this being complained about over and over.

It's time to drop that attitude and stop trying to push your way of playing on others. And stop using a misconstrued idea of what playing an MMO means to try to justify it.

thorwyn

SilverBride wrote: »

MMO
noun
an online video game which can be played by a very large number of people simultaneously.

This is what it is. This is all it is.

I am honestly over the arguement that playing an MMO means you need to actively play with others all the time. Players may choose to group for dungeons, trials, world bosses, Harrowstorms, etc., but they are in no way obligated to do so. They have complete free will how they want to play.

If someone chooses to log on and spend the day playing solo that does not in any way diminish the fact that multiple others are playing at the same time, or make it any less of an MMO. Nor does it mean that those playing solo aren't playing the game right. Yet I see this being complained about over and over.

It's time to drop that attitude and stop trying to push your way of playing on others. And stop using a misconstrued idea of what playing an MMO means to try to justify it.

Cause and effect...
The complaining you are refering to is just a reply to those people, who demand the game to be tweaked so it fits their expectations and play style, i.e. "I don't want to group, give us solo versions of trials!!!"
This is when the MMO mantra kicks in...and rightly so.

Danikat

I was just saying on another forum that I like MMOs where a lot of stuff can be done solo because my free time is erratic so I can't commit to being online at the same time every day (or even every week) to go through everything with a regular group and when I am online I can't always be sure how long I'll have so I don't always want to join a PUG in case I have to leave in the middle.

For a long time after I gave up on Ultima Online I just thought MMOs weren't for me and I'd never be able to play them even though I liked the idea. But newer games like ESO where there's a lot of stuff that can be done solo (or with anyone who happens to be around, since there's no kill or loot stealing) work for me. I still get the fun of seeing other people in the game, chatting to them etc. and can plan ahead to do group content when I know I'll have time, but I'm not entirely reliant on those rare times to get things done.

SilverBride

thorwyn wrote: »

Cause and effect...
The complaining you are refering to is just a reply to those people, who demand the game to be tweaked so it fits their expectations and play style, i.e. "I don't want to group, give us solo versions of trials!!!"
This is when the MMO mantra kicks in...and rightly so.

The MMO mantra as you call it has one major flaw. It's based on the misinterpretation that people playing simultaneously means people playing together. While they can play together, that is not what playing simultaneously means.

Starlock

thorwyn wrote: »

Cause and effect...
The complaining you are refering to is just a reply to those people, who demand the game to be tweaked so it fits their expectations and play style, i.e. "I don't want to group, give us solo versions of trials!!!"
This is when the MMO mantra kicks in...and rightly so.

Not really rightly so, no.

"I don't want to group up, give us solo versions of trials!"

- is not -

"I don't want to group up, get rid of all the group versions of trials and make them solo only!"

ZOS_Volpe

Greetings,

After removing a few off-topic posts, we would like to ask everyone to keep posts on the subject at hand, as well as keeping things civil and constructive.

Thank you for your understanding.

SilverBride

What I don't understand is why it bothers anyone if someone else chooses to play solo. We aren't stopping you from grouping or complaining that you do. What we do doesn't affect how you play in the least.

And what if there were solo versions of dungeons and trials, with rewards that fit the difficultly level? This isn't going to stop those who group for vet content from doing so, and obtaining the best rewards in the process.

So why all the conflict?

Kiralyn2000

As I said in that other thread

As for "MMO" - as long as there are many other players in the world, that you interact with in any way, it's "massively multiplayer". Nothing about that term requires your to be grouped with them for activities. Chatting in channels, interacting economically in the auction house, running into each other while ungrouped in the world and competing over spawns or assisting each other with a harder mob? That's all "massively multiplayer", and they're all things I've done in MMOs while playing "solo".

Eedat

Legit 95% of the entire game is casual/solo focused

Heaven forbid people fight for the scraps. I swear people won't be happy until they hand out Godslayer mounts to players solo clearing vSS with 5k dps.

SilverBride

Eedat wrote: »

Heaven forbid people fight for the scraps. I swear people won't be happy until they hand out Godslayer mounts to players solo clearing vSS with 5k dps.

I've not seen a single person say there should be "Godslayer" rewards for solo content. People who want to play solo dungeons and trials want to do so for the experience, not the loot. If they want the best loot they will run vet content. You don't have to choose to play just one or the other.

Kiralyn2000

SilverBride wrote: »

Eedat wrote: »

Heaven forbid people fight for the scraps. I swear people won't be happy until they hand out Godslayer mounts to players solo clearing vSS with 5k dps.

I've not seen a single person say there should be "Godslayer" rewards for solo content. People who want to play solo dungeons and trials want to do so for the experience, not the loot. If they want the best loot they will run vet content. You don't have to choose to play just one or the other.

Yeah. "Story mode" is so that (DUH) you can see the story. And the level design/artwork/etc. It's been vaguely annoying to me, since the days of WoW, to quest through all these epic stories, only to never see the payoff because it was locked in dungeons/trials/raids. Hell, back when I was playing WoW, I'd periodically wish for a "tour" mode for those instances - no monsters, no loot, nothing... just so I could look around all the dramatic architecture that my subscriptions & expansion purchases were paying for.

Sarannah

I do almost everything in this game solo. Except for crafting writs, I always get a full raid team for those.

Adaarye

I imagine there are a significant number of solo players playing ESO. A significant number of solo players get frustrated by not being able to play solo and they will move on. There are many solo titles (and some MMO titles) available currently and on the horizon that don't require $14.99 a month subscription.

Perhaps it hasn't occurred to many that the companion feature is being introduced in order to enrich the game experience for all players but also for retention of players with a more casual playstyle.

There is nothing to feel threatened about. ZoS has never handed anything out to players as a reward for pressing an easy button. I don't believe they will start now.

kathandira

It's nice to try to have something for everyone. But really, it only serves to create balancing issues.

ESO is plagued with imbalance issues, which we see attempt after attempt to resolve. Adding another variable only makes it even more complicated.

Banana

Solo only for me to

SilverBride

kathandira wrote: »

It's nice to try to have something for everyone. But really, it only serves to create balancing issues.

ESO is plagued with imbalance issues, which we see attempt after attempt to resolve. Adding another variable only makes it even more complicated.

Having solo dungeons and trials wouldn't create any type of imbalance because the drops would be comparable to the difficulty. Solo players would get a lesser reward for playing on a lesser difficulty.

The players who are asking that overland content be more difficult are asking to have another variable added because they want everyone to have to group for everything... which brings us back to my original post.

SeaGtGruff

I'm primarily a solo player, and I don't mind that there is some content which is specifically geared toward a group of players rather than solo players. I don't think the entire game should require grouping, but it seems like a good reflection of the real workd that there are some things that can be done by oneself and other things that cannot be done by one person alone.

But trying to use the term "MMO" as an excuse for why there should not be in-game NPC companions, or any other assists designed to help a solo player get through the same content that OP players like to solo-- such as group bosses, or dungeons, or other content designed for groups that doesn't specifically require being in a group-- is just silly.

robertthebard

I'm currently playing solo, completely. I'm not guilded, because guilds have this expectation that you're going to be around to play consistently, even if that means simply logging in fairly regularly, and I don't. I was absent for about 7 months this last time out. I also don't have any issues at all with that philosophy, in fact, I expect it to be a thing.

Eedat

SilverBride wrote: »

Eedat wrote: »

Heaven forbid people fight for the scraps. I swear people won't be happy until they hand out Godslayer mounts to players solo clearing vSS with 5k dps.

I've not seen a single person say there should be "Godslayer" rewards for solo content. People who want to play solo dungeons and trials want to do so for the experience, not the loot. If they want the best loot they will run vet content. You don't have to choose to play just one or the other.

What vet content? Solo /casual play gets the lions share of all new content while they literally nerf vet content to make it more casual friendly.

PVP performance has been inexcusably garbage for years on end and is getting worse. The only new content in PVP has been IC and battlegrounds. Then they quite literally destroy large groups because coordinated PvPers in the coordinated PVP area is unfair to casual players. So the knee bends. Yet they magically make performance great for when the casual players flock in during events. Then it magically turns back to trash when it's just the PvPers again.

Vet PvE content that poses a challenge eventually gets nerfed. There are like 10 dungeons and a handful of trials left that are actually difficult. You can't even reliably go for challenges anymore because of all the random crashes. Looks like late game PvEers are finally getting the PVP treatment.

Meanwhile every new system ends up being a casual/solo grind. PvPers and late game PvEers are forced to grind through hours upon hours upon hours of causal content fighting mobs that couldn't kill you if you afked for 5 minutes to grind out skill trees and skill points so they can do the thing they actually want to do. Or doing repetitive fetch quests.

Now the new system we get this year isn't just the casual grind which engame players have come to expect to be forced into. No, a system entirely useless to them and wholey catered for casual players to limp through group content.

And people don't get why endgame players are getting so frustrated? Engame has been absolutely gutted to cater to casual play already. This game is no longer an MMO. It's TES6 with multi-player.

WhereArtThouVampires

Having solo dungeons and trials would kill the literal only other group content in the game.

If y'all were given this people would demand overland and story bosses be given options for proper difficulty, then. Lest we get to the point to where there is literally no reason to group or interact with anyone.

The minute dungeons become solo-able (they already are, just the ones asking for this aren't good enough to solo current dungeons) by casual players is the minute this game's grouping and "multiplayer" aspect dies.

ESO is already insane with how much it caters to solo players. Can't y'all ever just be happy?

But another news flash: y'all wanna solo dungeons? Then get good enough to do such. Every single dungeon can be solo'd if you're really good.

Faylestar

Oh man, I've missed the "Water is a soft drink because it fits the technical definition of the words soft and drink, even though thats a label designed to be used on a specific subset of beverages to differentiate them in conversation" argument.

Technically, yes, Water is a soft drink.

Water, however, is not a soft drink, and everyone knows that.

SilverBride

Eedat wrote: »

This game is no longer an MMO. It's TES6 with multi-player.

It absolutely is an MMO because multiple people are playing simultaneously. Simultaneously doesn't mean together... it means at the same time. It has always meant this and every MMO I've ever played has been exactly this same way.

But for some reason there are players who think an MMO is a group game that should be played by grouping with others for everything. It's not.

WhereArtThouVampires

SilverBride wrote: »

Eedat wrote: »

This game is no longer an MMO. It's TES6 with multi-player.

It absolutely is an MMO because multiple people are playing simultaneously. Simultaneously doesn't mean together... it means at the same time. It has always meant this and every MMO I've ever played has been exactly this same way.

But for some reason there are players who think an MMO is a group game that should be played by grouping with others for everything. It's not.

You must not have played literally any other MMO out there except for, like, maybe SWTOR. As all other MMOs heavily encourage grouping/working together and are not nearly as solo friendly like ESO.

Grouping and interacting with other players goes hand in hand with the MMO experience, I'm sorry to say.

Even old MMOs were extremely difficult to encourage players to work with one another. That is the very foundation MMOs were built upon. Saying otherwise is blatant misinformation.

DaveMoeDee

It is a shame that people feel like they need to support their reasonable requests with poor logic along the lines of "it has to be this way and any other way makes no sense."

Part of this is probably people panicking over the thought that if everyone doesn't adopt their approach, something else might eclipse what they want.

WhereArtThouVampires

Faylestar wrote: »

Oh man, I've missed the "Water is a soft drink because it fits the technical definition of the words soft and drink, even though thats a label designed to be used on a specific subset of beverages to differentiate them in conversation" argument.

Technically, yes, Water is a soft drink.

Water, however, is not a soft drink, and everyone knows that.

This is probably the best argument I've seen used against these people.


MMOs are for playing with other players. Everybody knows that. If you aren't interacting and grouping up with other peeps then it isn't really an MMO is it? Similar to how if you start to add stuff to water, it no longer becomes 'water'

robertthebard

WhereArtThouVampires wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Eedat wrote: »

This game is no longer an MMO. It's TES6 with multi-player.

It absolutely is an MMO because multiple people are playing simultaneously. Simultaneously doesn't mean together... it means at the same time. It has always meant this and every MMO I've ever played has been exactly this same way.

But for some reason there are players who think an MMO is a group game that should be played by grouping with others for everything. It's not.

You must not have played literally any other MMO out there except for, like, maybe SWTOR. As all other MMOs heavily encourage grouping/working together and are not nearly as solo friendly like ESO.

Grouping and interacting with other players goes hand in hand with the MMO experience, I'm sorry to say.

Even old MMOs were extremely difficult to encourage players to work with one another. That is the very foundation MMOs were built upon. Saying otherwise is blatant misinformation.

DDO says "Hello". Hey, so does GW and GW 2, Neverwinter, Black Desert Online, Runes of Magic, Rappelz... I can stop here, every story driven MMO ever too. There's some blatant misinformation here, but I think it's more likely that I just quoted it, right? All of the games I listed here have group content as well, but a vast majority of their respective games can be played just fine solo.

SilverBride

WhereArtThouVampires wrote: »

You must not have played literally any other MMO out there except for, like, maybe SWTOR. As all other MMOs heavily encourage grouping/working together and are not nearly as solo friendly like ESO.

Grouping and interacting with other players goes hand in hand with the MMO experience, I'm sorry to say.

I played the original Diablo, which you could play with a small group or solo. I played Ultima Online, Asheron's Call, Rift, WoW, Lord of the Rings Online, Guild Wars 2 and now ESO. I was able to play solo on all of these, and/or group for content that required grouping.

I play ESO solo most of the time, but I do group for World Boss groups, Harrowstorms, and to help others when they are asking for help in zone. So grouping and interacting with other players is part of my MMO experience. It's just not the main part of my experience.

WhereArtThouVampires wrote: »

Even old MMOs were extremely difficult to encourage players to work with one another. That is the very foundation MMOs were built upon. Saying otherwise is blatant misinformation.

You don't know that the foundation of MMOs is built on players working with one another. That is just speculation on your part. But if grouping was their main goal then why do all of these MMOs tailor their overland content for solo play? End game is where grouping comes into play, and there is plenty of that for those who wish for a further challenge.

WhereArtThouVampires wrote: »

MMOs are for playing with other players. Everybody knows that. If you aren't interacting and grouping up with other peeps then it isn't really an MMO is it?

I will say this as many times as I need to. MMOs are not group games. They are games that many players can play simultaneously. Simultaneous does not mean together.

There are a lot of people playing ESO at any given moment that will never even run into each other, let alone group up. This doesn't change the fact this is an MMO.

pelle412

I am personally not in favor of spending development time and resources to create solo trials and dungeons. The triple constraint of project management applies here so that if time, money, and resources are allocated to producing this, other content or improvements that I and many others look forward to will be scrapped or delayed. There is already a way for everyone to experience the stories in dungeons and trials, and that, god forbid, means finding people to group with.

kathandira

robertthebard wrote: »

DDO says "Hello". Hey, so does GW and GW 2, Neverwinter, Black Desert Online, Runes of Magic, Rappelz... I can stop here, every story driven MMO ever too. There's some blatant misinformation here, but I think it's more likely that I just quoted it, right? All of the games I listed here have group content as well, but a vast majority of their respective games can be played just fine solo.

That is a list of mmo's that are often regarded as, "Not good".

Minyassa

Making solo versions of things would not kill group content. Obviously there are always going to be a LOT of people who:

1. Want the better rewards that come from doing harder content,
2. LIKE grouping, and actually enjoy the coordination of a team effort, and
3. Like more than one thing.

People who say "allowing solo versions of X would kill grouping"--do you hate grouping yourself? Are you saying that if there was an alternative, YOU wouldn't be doing group content? If that's the case, remember that not everyone is like you.

I mostly play solo because I don't have the time or energy to commit to a group most of the time. But when I do have that time and energy I *love* doing group content. I can like both. I'm not unusual in this. More options = more players finding something they have time for and will stay for. It doesn't mean people will have to choose one or the other, forever.

SilverBride

kathandira wrote: »

robertthebard wrote: »

DDO says "Hello". Hey, so does GW and GW 2, Neverwinter, Black Desert Online, Runes of Magic, Rappelz... I can stop here, every story driven MMO ever too. There's some blatant misinformation here, but I think it's more likely that I just quoted it, right? All of the games I listed here have group content as well, but a vast majority of their respective games can be played just fine solo.

That is a list of mmo's that are often regarded as, "Not good".

What about the ones I mentioned above? Ultima Online, Asheron's Call, Rift, WoW, Lord of the Rings Online, Guild Wars 2

Are you going to say that all of these are regarded as "Not good"? You can't seriously say WoW is "Not good", considering its ground breaking success.