What an MMO is

kathandira

SilverBride wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

robertthebard wrote: »

DDO says "Hello". Hey, so does GW and GW 2, Neverwinter, Black Desert Online, Runes of Magic, Rappelz... I can stop here, every story driven MMO ever too. There's some blatant misinformation here, but I think it's more likely that I just quoted it, right? All of the games I listed here have group content as well, but a vast majority of their respective games can be played just fine solo.

That is a list of mmo's that are often regarded as, "Not good".

What about the ones I mentioned above? Ultima Online, Asheron's Call, Rift, WoW, Lord of the Rings Online, Guild Wars 2

Are you going to say that all of these are regarded as "Not good"? You can't seriously say WoW is "Not good", considering its ground breaking success.

No not at all. WoW, LOTRO, Ultima Online, Asheron's Call, and i'll add as well EQ are the founding fathers of MMOs.

robertthebard

kathandira wrote: »

robertthebard wrote: »

DDO says "Hello". Hey, so does GW and GW 2, Neverwinter, Black Desert Online, Runes of Magic, Rappelz... I can stop here, every story driven MMO ever too. There's some blatant misinformation here, but I think it's more likely that I just quoted it, right? All of the games I listed here have group content as well, but a vast majority of their respective games can be played just fine solo.

That is a list of mmo's that are often regarded as, "Not good".

Oh look, more misinformation. GW is so popular that it's been on maintenance mode for over a decade, and there are still people playing it. This of course discounts the fact that even when they were in their prime, "group required to play" wasn't an accurate descriptor. There sure seem to be a lot of people in GW 2 as well, for a game that's considered "Not good". Let me guess, you're going to be feeding my daedric prince, the Daedric Prince of Melodrama, and cite "but all of my friends" or "everyone I know"?

kathandira

robertthebard wrote: »

Oh look, more misinformation. GW is so popular that it's been on maintenance mode for over a decade

Maintenance mode = dead game.

If there is no further innovation, it is likely because there isn't a demand for it.

WhereArtThouVampires

SilverBride wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

robertthebard wrote: »

DDO says "Hello". Hey, so does GW and GW 2, Neverwinter, Black Desert Online, Runes of Magic, Rappelz... I can stop here, every story driven MMO ever too. There's some blatant misinformation here, but I think it's more likely that I just quoted it, right? All of the games I listed here have group content as well, but a vast majority of their respective games can be played just fine solo.

That is a list of mmo's that are often regarded as, "Not good".

What about the ones I mentioned above? Ultima Online, Asheron's Call, Rift, WoW, Lord of the Rings Online, Guild Wars 2

Are you going to say that all of these are regarded as "Not good"? You can't seriously say WoW is "Not good", considering its ground breaking success.

WoW encourages grouping, though. They even came back with WoW classic because people missed the old hard, challenging way of the game. WoW even encourages player interaction vs solo play LESS than ESO cause doing dungeons and trials in newer content by yourself is literally impossible.

Ultima Online also encouraged working with other players. Same with Asheron's Call. Guild Wars 2 also encourages grouping with other players in the overworld to get quests done.

Are you going to say that MMOs are meant for solo players for some reason still?

SilverBride

kathandira wrote: »

What about the ones I mentioned above? Ultima Online, Asheron's Call, Rift, WoW, Lord of the Rings Online, Guild Wars 2

Are you going to say that all of these are regarded as "Not good"? You can't seriously say WoW is "Not good", considering its ground breaking success.

No not at all. WoW, LOTRO, Ultima Online, Asheron's Call, and i'll add as well EQ are the founding fathers of MMOs. [/quote]

And all of these are MMOS, and are soloable on overland and storyline content. End game is where grouping comes into play.

WhereArtThouVampires

kathandira wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

robertthebard wrote: »

DDO says "Hello". Hey, so does GW and GW 2, Neverwinter, Black Desert Online, Runes of Magic, Rappelz... I can stop here, every story driven MMO ever too. There's some blatant misinformation here, but I think it's more likely that I just quoted it, right? All of the games I listed here have group content as well, but a vast majority of their respective games can be played just fine solo.

That is a list of mmo's that are often regarded as, "Not good".

What about the ones I mentioned above? Ultima Online, Asheron's Call, Rift, WoW, Lord of the Rings Online, Guild Wars 2

Are you going to say that all of these are regarded as "Not good"? You can't seriously say WoW is "Not good", considering its ground breaking success.

No not at all. WoW, LOTRO, Ultima Online, Asheron's Call, and i'll add as well EQ are the founding fathers of MMOs.

EQ also was extremely hard and encouraged players to work together and face challenge within the game.

All of the games mentioned are way harder and offer more difficulty than ESO. And that encourages grouping/working with other players that might be struggling.

kathandira

SilverBride wrote: »

And all of these are soloable on overland and storyline content. End game is where grouping comes into play.

And the same applies to ESO. Overland and Story Content is totally soloable. And will be even more so with Companions, which it in and of itself is part of the story content.

WhereArtThouVampires

SilverBride wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

What about the ones I mentioned above? Ultima Online, Asheron's Call, Rift, WoW, Lord of the Rings Online, Guild Wars 2

Are you going to say that all of these are regarded as "Not good"? You can't seriously say WoW is "Not good", considering its ground breaking success.

No not at all. WoW, LOTRO, Ultima Online, Asheron's Call, and i'll add as well EQ are the founding fathers of MMOs.

And all of these are MMOS, and are soloable on overland and storyline content. End game is where grouping comes into play.[/quote]

You'd find that grouping in Ultima, Asheron's, EQ, and WoW is very beneficial to players because the overland is HARDer than that of ESO. End of story.

robertthebard

kathandira wrote: »

robertthebard wrote: »

Oh look, more misinformation. GW is so popular that it's been on maintenance mode for over a decade

Maintenance mode = dead game.

If there is no further innovation, it is likely because there isn't a demand for it.

Nice snip job. Way to attempt to misrepresent what I actually said, right? The problem is that this isn't twitter, and nobody removed my post so that nobody could see what I actually said.

You are wrong. The majority of MMOs haven't encouraged grouping throughout the game, they have had content that a player could just log in and play with no other players required. Sorry that that flies in the face of what you want to believe, or are trying to convince others of, but some of us have actually played other MMOs, and know better.

WhereArtThouVampires

kathandira wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

And all of these are soloable on overland and storyline content. End game is where grouping comes into play.

And the same applies to ESO. Overland and Story Content is totally soloable. And will be even more so with Companions, which it in and of itself is part of the story content.

This is also true. Notice how none of the other MMOs mentioned have solo-able story mode dungeons? Because that derives from the main grouping aspect.

Not to mention that their overlands/stories are MILES harder than the overland in ESO.

WhereArtThouVampires

robertthebard wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

robertthebard wrote: »

Oh look, more misinformation. GW is so popular that it's been on maintenance mode for over a decade

Maintenance mode = dead game.

If there is no further innovation, it is likely because there isn't a demand for it.

Nice snip job. Way to attempt to misrepresent what I actually said, right? The problem is that this isn't twitter, and nobody removed my post so that nobody could see what I actually said.

You are wrong. The majority of MMOs haven't encouraged grouping throughout the game, they have had content that a player could just log in and play with no other players required. Sorry that that flies in the face of what you want to believe, or are trying to convince others of, but some of us have actually played other MMOs, and know better.

uhhhh

most MMOs tend to have pretty hard overland in comparison to ESO that encourages some form of working together or grouping. At least in the leveling faze in some cases.

Some of the world's most memorable and popular MMOs from the past are hard ones that encouraged working together early on cause of how hard things were for solo players.

SilverBride

WhereArtThouVampires wrote: »

WoW encourages grouping, though. They even came back with WoW classic because people missed the old hard, challenging way of the game. WoW even encourages player interaction vs solo play LESS than ESO cause doing dungeons and trials in newer content by yourself is literally impossible.

Ultima Online also encouraged working with other players. Same with Asheron's Call. Guild Wars 2 also encourages grouping with other players in the overworld to get quests done.

Are you going to say that MMOs are meant for solo players for some reason still?

I never said MMOs are meant for solo players. I said they are not meant for just grouping. The fact that I may not ever group with another player doesn't mean there aren't multiple players on line playing at the same time... which is the definition of an MMO.

Why do you think Craglorn was such a failure? Forced grouping does not work. That's why all zones before and since have been solo friendly.

kathandira

WhereArtThouVampires wrote: »

You'd find that grouping in Ultima, Asheron's, EQ, and WoW is very beneficial to players because the overland is HARDer than that of ESO. End of story.

Classic WoW made that very clear. For a while it was potentially due to rose tinted glasses that people recall how difficult soloing quests was. But then people got to revisit it, and boy oh boy did people remember.

If you were not wise in the ways of single pulling enemies, you were quite likely to get rocked. And what happens in WoW when you die? You go to a graveyard, and have to walk your failed butt back to your body, which might be surrounded by enemies still. Go at it with a friend though, and suddenly it becomes far more manageable. This applied while leveling, and at level cap.

ESO, while leveling your first character, it can be a little difficult to take on multiple enemies. But with the Newbie buff everyone gets, it is nowhere near the level of difficulty of older MMOs. Then once you have some CP under your belt, soloing overland content is a joke. Especially leveling with the Newbie buff AND some CP invested.

SilverBride

kathandira wrote: »

WhereArtThouVampires wrote: »

You'd find that grouping in Ultima, Asheron's, EQ, and WoW is very beneficial to players because the overland is HARDer than that of ESO. End of story.

Classic WoW made that very clear. For a while it was potentially due to rose tinted glasses that people recall how difficult soloing quests was. But then people got to revisit it, and boy oh boy did people remember.

And why do you think it didn't stay that way?

robertthebard

WhereArtThouVampires wrote: »

robertthebard wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

robertthebard wrote: »

Oh look, more misinformation. GW is so popular that it's been on maintenance mode for over a decade

Maintenance mode = dead game.

If there is no further innovation, it is likely because there isn't a demand for it.

Nice snip job. Way to attempt to misrepresent what I actually said, right? The problem is that this isn't twitter, and nobody removed my post so that nobody could see what I actually said.

You are wrong. The majority of MMOs haven't encouraged grouping throughout the game, they have had content that a player could just log in and play with no other players required. Sorry that that flies in the face of what you want to believe, or are trying to convince others of, but some of us have actually played other MMOs, and know better.

uhhhh

most MMOs tend to have pretty hard overland in comparison to ESO that encourages some form of working together or grouping. At least in the leveling faze in some cases.

Some of the world's most memorable and popular MMOs from the past are hard ones that encouraged working together early on cause of how hard things were for solo players.

Citations needed on "Most", because I've played the games I listed in a previous post, amongst others that I can't even remember any more, and none of them had these encouraged group play for overland. DDO doesn't even have "overland". Every quest in the game is instanced, including the wilderness zones.

kathandira

SilverBride wrote: »

I never said MMOs are meant for solo players. I said they are not meant for just grouping. The fact that I may not ever group with another player doesn't mean there aren't multiple players on line playing at the same time... which is the definition of an MMO.

Why do you think Craglorn was such a failure? Forced grouping does not work. That's why all zones before and since have been solo friendly.

Imo, an additional reason craglorn failed is due to trash sets that come from there. The rewards aren't worth the effort.

kathandira

SilverBride wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

WhereArtThouVampires wrote: »

You'd find that grouping in Ultima, Asheron's, EQ, and WoW is very beneficial to players because the overland is HARDer than that of ESO. End of story.

Classic WoW made that very clear. For a while it was potentially due to rose tinted glasses that people recall how difficult soloing quests was. But then people got to revisit it, and boy oh boy did people remember.

And why do you think it didn't stay that way?

The same reason ESO changed to One Tamriel. To make things easier for people. But how far should that go? ESO is on the same level as Swtor in my opinion. Questing and Overland is very easy to solo, and provides a really nice story experience that you can enjoy at your own pace.

But then there is group dungeons and raids, which are designed with groups in mind.

SilverBride

kathandira wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Why do you think Craglorn was such a failure? Forced grouping does not work. That's why all zones before and since have been solo friendly.

Imo, an additional reason craglorn failed is due to trash sets that come from there. The rewards aren't worth the effort.

I quit playing when Craglorn was introduced. I didn't want to have to group for every single quest.

If I did get in a group for questing, I often had to repeat quests I already did so others could catch up, or miss quests I didn't yet complete because others didn't want to wait for me to catch up. It had absolutely nothing to do with the rewards. It had to do with being locked into doing what the group wanted when and how the group wanted. It was very counterproductive in completing anything.

Yet there are those who claim this is exactly how we should all be playing because ESO is an MMO.

No.

kathandira

SilverBride wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Why do you think Craglorn was such a failure? Forced grouping does not work. That's why all zones before and since have been solo friendly.

Imo, an additional reason craglorn failed is due to trash sets that come from there. The rewards aren't worth the effort.

I quit playing when Craglorn was introduced. I didn't want to have to group for every single quest.

If I did get in a group for questing, I often had to repeat quests I already did so others could catch up, or miss quests I didn't yet complete because others didn't want to wait for me to catch up. It had absolutely nothing to do with the rewards. It had to do with being locked into doing what the group wanted when and how the group wanted. It was very counterproductive in completing anything.

Yet there are those who claim this is exactly how we should all be playing because ESO is an MMO.

No.

Nah, I don't agree with those people. Overland should be just how ESO is. Simple, and story driven. Though I know some struggle with the more difficult world bosses and events, I think that is enough group content for the overland. You don't actually need to be in a group, and you can just hang and wait, or reach out in Zone Chat for assistance. I can speak to the PS4 community and confidently say, more times than not, someone will be more than happy to help someone out on a World Boss or Event.

robertthebard

kathandira wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Why do you think Craglorn was such a failure? Forced grouping does not work. That's why all zones before and since have been solo friendly.

Imo, an additional reason craglorn failed is due to trash sets that come from there. The rewards aren't worth the effort.

I quit playing when Craglorn was introduced. I didn't want to have to group for every single quest.

If I did get in a group for questing, I often had to repeat quests I already did so others could catch up, or miss quests I didn't yet complete because others didn't want to wait for me to catch up. It had absolutely nothing to do with the rewards. It had to do with being locked into doing what the group wanted when and how the group wanted. It was very counterproductive in completing anything.

Yet there are those who claim this is exactly how we should all be playing because ESO is an MMO.

No.

Nah, I don't agree with those people. Overland should be just how ESO is. Simple, and story driven. Though I know some struggle with the more difficult world bosses and events, I think that is enough group content for the overland. You don't actually need to be in a group, and you can just hang and wait, or reach out in Zone Chat for assistance. I can speak to the PS4 community and confidently say, more times than not, someone will be more than happy to help someone out on a World Boss or Event.

It's the same on PC NA. Where help is needed, you can actually get it, pretty fast too, sometimes. It seems like there's a lot of people on some of these maps doing what I'm doing, looking for a quest they missed when they went through on story, or lorebooks/skyshards, etc.

Kiralyn2000

WhereArtThouVampires wrote: »

Having solo dungeons and trials would kill the literal only other group content in the game.

No, because the main people it'd be targeted at are the people who currently don't do any group content. Plus, as mentioned, it wouldn't have the loot that the group versions have. So all the "gotta gear up/be meta" crowd would still be happily running their groups.

WhereArtThouVampires wrote: »

You must not have played literally any other MMO out there except for, like, maybe SWTOR. As all other MMOs heavily encourage grouping/working together and are not nearly as solo friendly like ESO.

Pft. You clearly haven't played any Western MMOs in the past 10 years. Buckets of solo content & desperately begging/bribing people (outside the "MMOs are only for grouping" crew) to play your group stuff has been the name of the game for years.

WhereArtThouVampires wrote: »

MMOs are for playing with other players. Everybody knows that.

Except the devs, apparently, who keep tossing more solo content into their games.

If you aren't interacting and grouping up with other peeps then it isn't really an MMO is it?

And, as mentioned earlier, "interacting with other peeps" covers a much wider range of activities than just "grouping for dungeons & raids".



The basic fact of the matter is that MMO devs want to make As Much Money As Possible. The pool of "hardcore" EQ-style "must always group for everything" players is pretty small - there aren't nearly enough of them to support all the MMOs out there, let alone provide millions of players / Maximum Profit™. So, they need to get All The Players. How do you do that? You make your game accessible to as wide a range of playstyles as possible. Which includes lots of solo & semi-solo players.

"MMOs are only for grouping" hasn't been a thing since before WoW.
(and yes, I played WoW back in vanilla. 98% of the time solo.)

Goregrinder

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

WhereArtThouVampires wrote: »

Having solo dungeons and trials would kill the literal only other group content in the game.

No, because the main people it'd be targeted at are the people who currently don't do any group content. Plus, as mentioned, it wouldn't have the loot that the group versions have. So all the "gotta gear up/be meta" crowd would still be happily running their groups.

WhereArtThouVampires wrote: »

You must not have played literally any other MMO out there except for, like, maybe SWTOR. As all other MMOs heavily encourage grouping/working together and are not nearly as solo friendly like ESO.

Pft. You clearly haven't played any Western MMOs in the past 10 years. Buckets of solo content & desperately begging/bribing people (outside the "MMOs are only for grouping" crew) to play your group stuff has been the name of the game for years.

WhereArtThouVampires wrote: »

MMOs are for playing with other players. Everybody knows that.

Except the devs, apparently, who keep tossing more solo content into their games.

If you aren't interacting and grouping up with other peeps then it isn't really an MMO is it?

And, as mentioned earlier, "interacting with other peeps" covers a much wider range of activities than just "grouping for dungeons & raids".



The basic fact of the matter is that MMO devs want to make As Much Money As Possible. The pool of "hardcore" EQ-style "must always group for everything" players is pretty small - there aren't nearly enough of them to support all the MMOs out there, let alone provide millions of players / Maximum Profit™. So, they need to get All The Players. How do you do that? You make your game accessible to as wide a range of playstyles as possible. Which includes lots of solo & semi-solo players.

"MMOs are only for grouping" hasn't been a thing since before WoW.
(and yes, I played WoW back in vanilla. 98% of the time solo.)

Yeah there aren't very many of us golden-age MMORPG players left, or at least not enough of us left that care about the good ole days. The generation that came after us wants to be able to unlock everything they want or need by themselves, instantly with no effort other than a few clicks of a button.

kathandira

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

The basic fact of the matter is that MMO devs want to make As Much Money As Possible. The pool of "hardcore" EQ-style "must always group for everything" players is pretty small - there aren't nearly enough of them to support all the MMOs out there, let alone provide millions of players / Maximum Profit™. So, they need to get All The Players. How do you do that? You make your game accessible to as wide a range of playstyles as possible. Which includes lots of solo & semi-solo players.

"MMOs are only for grouping" hasn't been a thing since before WoW.
(and yes, I played WoW back in vanilla. 98% of the time solo.)

I'm in between the two. I feel like ESO has it's sweet spot just right. There is solo content for those who want it, and there is a group content for those who want it. But to make all content soloable, makes doing the same content in a group pointless.

If the rewards were less powerful, but still powerful enough to do every dungeon and trial in solo mode, then why bother with group mode? Further, at that point, why bother making this an online game at all?

SshadowSscale

SilverBride wrote: »

Eedat wrote: »

Heaven forbid people fight for the scraps. I swear people won't be happy until they hand out Godslayer mounts to players solo clearing vSS with 5k dps.

I've not seen a single person say there should be "Godslayer" rewards for solo content. People who want to play solo dungeons and trials want to do so for the experience, not the loot. If they want the best loot they will run vet content. You don't have to choose to play just one or the other.

Hold up..... let see.... Multiple dungeons needed over the years because it's too hard for solo players..... the special reward for completing dungeons on the hardest difficultys (vet hardmode ni death and speedrun) for example the skins no longer exists with newer dungeons and is instead given for just completing vet.... soon probs for doing it on normal or even just entering the dungeon...... Proc meta that has existed for half a year now in pvp legit exist to aid casual solo players against people who has spent years mastering their craft.... new syatems too purely make stuff even easier for solo players..... I could go on and on but everything is always adjusted for the casual solo player.... all of the new content is focused on solo casual players except trials and dungeons.... zos caters so much to the solo casual player yet you always feel like zos is somehow mistreating you.... you wanna see neglect look at bloody pvp.... it's been neglected for years yet you still want non pvp zones of pvp zones because you can't be bothered too group up...... even rewards are eventually made easier to obtain for solo casual players..... heaven forbid n small part of the game requires you too group up

Thealteregoroman

SilverBride wrote: »

MMO
noun
an online video game which can be played by a very large number of people simultaneously.

This is what it is. This is all it is.

I am honestly over the arguement that playing an MMO means you need to actively play with others all the time. Players may choose to group for dungeons, trials, world bosses, Harrowstorms, etc., but they are in no way obligated to do so. They have complete free will how they want to play.

If someone chooses to log on and spend the day playing solo that does not in any way diminish the fact that multiple others are playing at the same time, or make it any less of an MMO. Nor does it mean that those playing solo aren't playing the game right. Yet I see this being complained about over and over.

It's time to drop that attitude and stop trying to push your way of playing on others. And stop using a misconstrued idea of what playing an MMO means to try to justify it.

This gave me so much life as I was reading it drinking this hot tea. FINALLY a place to breathe and come up for air in the forums.

SilverBride

SshadowSscale wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Eedat wrote: »

Heaven forbid people fight for the scraps. I swear people won't be happy until they hand out Godslayer mounts to players solo clearing vSS with 5k dps.

I've not seen a single person say there should be "Godslayer" rewards for solo content. People who want to play solo dungeons and trials want to do so for the experience, not the loot. If they want the best loot they will run vet content. You don't have to choose to play just one or the other.

heaven forbid n small part of the game requires you too group up

I'm not going to respond to everything you said because almost all of your post has to do with things I never even mentioned. But not once have I ever said there should not be group content.

DarcyMardin

I’ve played many MMOs for as many years as there have been MMOs. I prefer games where other people are present and participating to games where I’m totally alone with a bunch of NPCs. Even so, I usually prefer to explore and adventure solo. That is due both to my personality and to my odd hours. I’m often online in the middle of the night or the pre-dawn morning.

In former games I’ve been somewhat more social than I am in ESO — I’ve been on hardcore raiding teams and regularly showed up every week to raid, which I don’t do here. In ESO, my husband and I can duo quite a few dungeons (probably even more when we get the new companions), and go at our own pace. Racing thru dungeons with the group finder, which I occasionally do, is never much fun for me. But if end up in a friendly, competent group, I do appreciate that. And I appreciate the *option* to group up when I have the time or am in the mood.

ESO offers different types of play for different people. For folks who enjoy socializing and teamwork, there are plenty of opportunities for that. For those of us who prefer to adventure alone, most of the game is accessible, too. (Maybe even more of it will be accessible with companions, which would be awesome).

robertthebard

SshadowSscale wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Eedat wrote: »

Heaven forbid people fight for the scraps. I swear people won't be happy until they hand out Godslayer mounts to players solo clearing vSS with 5k dps.

I've not seen a single person say there should be "Godslayer" rewards for solo content. People who want to play solo dungeons and trials want to do so for the experience, not the loot. If they want the best loot they will run vet content. You don't have to choose to play just one or the other.

Hold up..... let see.... Multiple dungeons needed over the years because it's too hard for solo players..... the special reward for completing dungeons on the hardest difficultys (vet hardmode ni death and speedrun) for example the skins no longer exists with newer dungeons and is instead given for just completing vet.... soon probs for doing it on normal or even just entering the dungeon...... Proc meta that has existed for half a year now in pvp legit exist to aid casual solo players against people who has spent years mastering their craft.... new syatems too purely make stuff even easier for solo players..... I could go on and on but everything is always adjusted for the casual solo player.... all of the new content is focused on solo casual players except trials and dungeons.... zos caters so much to the solo casual player yet you always feel like zos is somehow mistreating you.... you wanna see neglect look at bloody pvp.... it's been neglected for years yet you still want non pvp zones of pvp zones because you can't be bothered too group up...... even rewards are eventually made easier to obtain for solo casual players..... heaven forbid n small part of the game requires you too group up

While I agree that we don't need solo dungeons, other than the ones we already have in the stories, and the majority of Public Dungeons, well, at least solo for me, that's a bit off topic for this thread isn't it? Now I could have missed it somewhere, but the gist of this thread is that "MMO means that there's lots of people online playing at the same time, not that they have to always be grouped up, running group content". The discussion's all over the place, with false claims of "but MMOs have always encouraged grouping in overland content" to "most of them have lots of solo content, and always have", but that's got nothing to do with dungeons.

SshadowSscale

SilverBride wrote: »

SshadowSscale wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Eedat wrote: »

Heaven forbid people fight for the scraps. I swear people won't be happy until they hand out Godslayer mounts to players solo clearing vSS with 5k dps.

I've not seen a single person say there should be "Godslayer" rewards for solo content. People who want to play solo dungeons and trials want to do so for the experience, not the loot. If they want the best loot they will run vet content. You don't have to choose to play just one or the other.

heaven forbid n small part of the game requires you too group up

I'm not going to respond to everything you said because almost all of your post has to do with things I never even mentioned. But not once have I ever said there should not be group content.

yeah but still group content gets affected directly good example right now is pvp with proc meta.... end game pvp players who spent years learning pvp gets the middle finger because casual players cannot compete with the pvp players in the pvp zone....

SilverBride

SshadowSscale wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I'm not going to respond to everything you said because almost all of your post has to do with things I never even mentioned. But not once have I ever said there should not be group content.

yeah but still group content gets affected directly good example right now is pvp with proc meta.... end game pvp players who spent years learning pvp gets the middle finger because casual players cannot compete with the pvp players in the pvp zone....

That has absolutely nothing to do with the topic of this thread.