What an MMO is

Elvenheart

SilverBride wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

robertthebard wrote: »

DDO says "Hello". Hey, so does GW and GW 2, Neverwinter, Black Desert Online, Runes of Magic, Rappelz... I can stop here, every story driven MMO ever too. There's some blatant misinformation here, but I think it's more likely that I just quoted it, right? All of the games I listed here have group content as well, but a vast majority of their respective games can be played just fine solo.

That is a list of mmo's that are often regarded as, "Not good".

What about the ones I mentioned above? Ultima Online, Asheron's Call, Rift, WoW, Lord of the Rings Online, Guild Wars 2

Are you going to say that all of these are regarded as "Not good"? You can't seriously say WoW is "Not good", considering its ground breaking success.

As someone who has really enjoyed almost ALL of these games, if this is a list of games that are considered “not good” I would like to see the list that is considered “good.” Dark Souls perhaps? 🤣

Nowa133

SilverBride wrote: »

Nowa133 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Are you really saying that solo players should change the way they play their game, and group up whether they like it or not, so there are more people for your queues?

I'm saying that giving this option, people that usually goes off the way to enter a queue would not do it anymore and we'll have a decrease in the numbers.

The players who want the better rewards will still queue. Those who just want to see the content probably will stop queuing, but most of those players don't queue now anyway. The biggest problem with queues is a huge deficit of tanks and healers, not solo players.

Yes, but that would increase the deficit anyways.

adriant1978

Nowa133 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Nowa133 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Are you really saying that solo players should change the way they play their game, and group up whether they like it or not, so there are more people for your queues?

I'm saying that giving this option, people that usually goes off the way to enter a queue would not do it anymore and we'll have a decrease in the numbers.

The players who want the better rewards will still queue. Those who just want to see the content probably will stop queuing, but most of those players don't queue now anyway. The biggest problem with queues is a huge deficit of tanks and healers, not solo players.

Yes, but that would increase the deficit anyways.

Do you really want your tank or healer to be someone who hates grouping but felt forced into it in order to see the story? They probably wouldn't be very good.

Most solo story type players probably either go without seeing the dungeons or if they are very lucky might be in good lore/story focused guild which matches their interests. Either way I doubt many of them queue for the dungeon finder, and the number of solo story players who both feel forced to queue and are actually good in their role once they grit their teeth is probably vanishingly small.

A_Silverius

SilverBride wrote: »

A_Silverius wrote: »

I thought the whole point of MMO's is cooperative gameplay.

Cooperative gameplay is an option, but it's not the only option. Overland content is tailored to solo play because most players want to experience the storyline at their own pace. When is the last time you grouped up for overland quests?

Cooperative gameplay comes into play with harder content, like World Bosses, Harrowstorms, Dungeons and Trials. It's still there and still relevant, but not the main focus unless that is your personal focus. Not everyone is into that aspect of the game.

In my opinion Solo content should be the option not Cooperative play since ESO is supposed to be a Multiplayer game therefore Multiplayer should be the main focus. Which is why I also prefer if Overland content had an increase in difficulty for veteran players at least when it comes to quest bosses.

Cooperative gameplay should be the main focus in an MMO, and cooperative gameplay doesn't need to be applied solely to difficulty level, bosses and dungeons/raids.

Like I said before: Solo content is fine but it becomes a problem when the multiplayer part is neglected and solo becomes the focus. It's like playing Solitaire with UNO cards. The least they could do is release Multiplayer content that works properly https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7085062/#Comment_7085062

Kilnerdyne wrote: »

Just a normal day in the ESO Time Trials raiding community.

Random players crashing on last boss, usually in execute, and another few hours wasted thanks to a system of game development where the shareholders have much more fun than the people paying for subscriptions, buying crowns/items in crown store & actually playing the game.

At this point you have to wonder what the point of releasing your DLCs & Chapters on the PTS server is when any feedback received from the players is completely ignored immediately & for 80 days afterwards.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joK6NJpIk7U

robertthebard

A_Silverius wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

A_Silverius wrote: »

I thought the whole point of MMO's is cooperative gameplay.

Cooperative gameplay is an option, but it's not the only option. Overland content is tailored to solo play because most players want to experience the storyline at their own pace. When is the last time you grouped up for overland quests?

Cooperative gameplay comes into play with harder content, like World Bosses, Harrowstorms, Dungeons and Trials. It's still there and still relevant, but not the main focus unless that is your personal focus. Not everyone is into that aspect of the game.

In my opinion Solo content should be the option not Cooperative play since ESO is supposed to be a Multiplayer game therefore Multiplayer should be the main focus. Which is why I also prefer if Overland content had an increase in difficulty for veteran players at least when it comes to quest bosses.

Cooperative gameplay should be the main focus in an MMO, and cooperative gameplay doesn't need to be applied solely to difficulty level, bosses and dungeons/raids.

Like I said before: Solo content is fine but it becomes a problem when the multiplayer part is neglected and solo becomes the focus. It's like playing Solitaire with UNO cards. The least they could do is release Multiplayer content that works properly https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7085062/#Comment_7085062

Actually, the focus should be as much on the "Massively". So, you get what you want, and 80%ish of the population leaves. How long does the game last? Are you going to dip into your wallet to try to make up for that lost revenue? I know I don't have that kind of money. MP content should be getting some love, and it seems like it does, with new trials and dungeons every year, or at least every update?

amapola76

WhereArtThouVampires wrote: »

Faylestar wrote: »

Oh man, I've missed the "Water is a soft drink because it fits the technical definition of the words soft and drink, even though thats a label designed to be used on a specific subset of beverages to differentiate them in conversation" argument.

Technically, yes, Water is a soft drink.

Water, however, is not a soft drink, and everyone knows that.

This is probably the best argument I've seen used against these people.


MMOs are for playing with other players. Everybody knows that. If you aren't interacting and grouping up with other peeps then it isn't really an MMO is it? Similar to how if you start to add stuff to water, it no longer becomes 'water'

These are very bad and illogical arguments, actually, and you'd be laughed out of a 1L law school class for making them.

A_Silverius

robertthebard wrote: »

Actually, the focus should be as much on the "Massively". So, you get what you want, and 80%ish of the population leaves. How long does the game last? Are you going to dip into your wallet to try to make up for that lost revenue? I know I don't have that kind of money. MP content should be getting some love, and it seems like it does, with new trials and dungeons every year, or at least every update?

Yes. Why would anyone leave if there was a focus on multiplayer? I'm not saying solo content should be removed at all, I'm just saying multiplayer should be the main focus in a multiplayer game and the least they could do is fix the server performance for players who participate in multiplayer. In fact, I myself enjoy solo content in ESO although it needs a difficulty increase. I just do not enjoy the Multiplayer part which should be the focus of an MMO. Saying 80% of the population would leave because of this is a bit farfetched. And if 80% of the population are indeed solo players, then I think there is something that isn't quite right with the game. Maybe year after year of empty promises to fix server performance has finally driven off players who participate in multiplayer and what we have now are all solo players?

We only get 1 Trial a year and a few dungeons, and as you can read the post I quoted above. They do not work properly, here is another one by the same author:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7095621/#Comment_7095621

Kilnerdyne wrote: »

Kilnerdyne wrote: »

We will be doing Kyne's Aegis again tomorrow night with full raid group so will probably be posting another crash filled video clip for you to enjoy then.

As soon as we entered the last boss arena with 36/36 vitality one of our healers Crashed to Desktop immediately at the start of the fight. By the grace of Talos and the Nine we were able to keep him alive until he went offline as you can see below.

https://clips.twitch.tv/SillyShinyClintmullinsDxCat

And after that one sacrifical crash we were able to complete Dawnbringer on Stamina DDs for the first time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iae8zVHYwdw

But come on guys. The hardest part of this game for the last 2-3 years has just been how to work around all the bugs in trials, the mechanical problems with skill-usage, crashes to desktop or to crash report, or massive latency & fps problems.

So many more players would be enjoying your game right now if you had just put more effort in from the very beginning in 2014.

SshadowSscale

SilverBride wrote: »

SshadowSscale wrote: »

end game players gets affected a lot by casual players.... unlike you stated where endgame is not affected at all..... the truth is endgame gets hurt the most usually.... that being the reason end game players are getting more and more frustrated....

I don't see how someone logging on and playing solo could possibly hurt an end game player. Please give a specific example so I can understand where you are coming from.

very easy.... let's talk animation cancling... a lot of end game players love this feature but solo and casual players want it removed because they consider it an exploit/ bug even though zos states its a feature..... second pvp meta atm the proc meta exists purely so casual and solo players can have a chance at being decent in pvp from the get go by just wearing the correct set and having no pvp knowledge.... pvp players hates this meta because your sets do all your damage for you.... thirdly continues dungeon nerfs because dungeons are too hard for casual solo players..... good example is ruins of mazatun used to be a bit of a challenge with made it fun.... now it's just a snore fest with no real chance of actually dying(this coming from n pvp player who only ever does dungeon if he wants a skin or armor from the dungeon)..... talking about skins.... used to be the reward for hardmode no death and speedrun achievement.... solo and casual player complained that it's too hard now it's granted for just completing the dungeon on vet.... I can go on but I have a question for you.... why is it fine for solo players to ask for a solo version for dungeons trials ic cyrodil etc but it's not ok for end game players to ask for a optional vet overland for those who wants a bit of a challenge?

Lumenn

A_Silverius wrote: »

robertthebard wrote: »

Actually, the focus should be as much on the "Massively". So, you get what you want, and 80%ish of the population leaves. How long does the game last? Are you going to dip into your wallet to try to make up for that lost revenue? I know I don't have that kind of money. MP content should be getting some love, and it seems like it does, with new trials and dungeons every year, or at least every update?

Yes. Why would anyone leave if there was a focus on multiplayer? I'm not saying solo content should be removed at all, I'm just saying multiplayer should be the main focus in a multiplayer game and the least they could do is fix the server performance for players who participate in multiplayer. In fact, I myself enjoy solo content in ESO although it needs a difficulty increase. I just do not enjoy the Multiplayer part which should be the focus of an MMO. Saying 80% of the population would leave because of this is a bit farfetched. And if 80% of the population are indeed solo players, then I think there is something that isn't quite right with the game. Maybe year after year of empty promises to fix server performance has finally driven off players who participate in multiplayer and what we have now are all solo players?

We only get 1 Trial a year and a few dungeons, and as you can read the post I quoted above. They do not work properly, here is another one by the same author:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7095621/#Comment_7095621

Kilnerdyne wrote: »

Kilnerdyne wrote: »

We will be doing Kyne's Aegis again tomorrow night with full raid group so will probably be posting another crash filled video clip for you to enjoy then.

As soon as we entered the last boss arena with 36/36 vitality one of our healers Crashed to Desktop immediately at the start of the fight. By the grace of Talos and the Nine we were able to keep him alive until he went offline as you can see below.

https://clips.twitch.tv/SillyShinyClintmullinsDxCat

And after that one sacrifical crash we were able to complete Dawnbringer on Stamina DDs for the first time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iae8zVHYwdw

But come on guys. The hardest part of this game for the last 2-3 years has just been how to work around all the bugs in trials, the mechanical problems with skill-usage, crashes to desktop or to crash report, or massive latency & fps problems.

So many more players would be enjoying your game right now if you had just put more effort in from the very beginning in 2014.

You keep saying multiplayer like it actually means forced grouping while others claim it means multiple players sharing the same world.

SilverBride

A_Silverius wrote: »

In my opinion Solo content should be the option not Cooperative play since ESO is supposed to be a Multiplayer game therefore Multiplayer should be the main focus.

I will repeat this again. MMO means multiple people can play simultaneously. It does not mean multiple people are expected to play together.

A_Silverius wrote: »

Which is why I also prefer if Overland content had an increase in difficulty for veteran players at least when it comes to quest bosses.

Why is it ok for you to ask for increased difficulty that would force veteran players into grouping, but not ok for the majority of the players to ask for solo dungeons and trials so they can experience something they may otherwise miss out on?

A_Silverius wrote: »

I'm just saying multiplayer should be the main focus in a multiplayer game

The main focus of a multiplayer game is whatever the player wants it to be. I interact with others around me all the time. I join their guilds, I talk to them, I help them when people call out in zone, I give free Vampire bites. That is multiplayer to me.

A_Silverius

Lumenn wrote: »

You keep saying multiplayer like it actually means forced grouping while others claim it means multiple players sharing the same world.

Actually I think it's the other way round, people keep thinking multiplayer means forced grouping. Multiplayer shouldn't necessarily need a group at all, it's the interaction with other players that share the same world that makes the MMO.

Lumenn

SshadowSscale wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

SshadowSscale wrote: »

end game players gets affected a lot by casual players.... unlike you stated where endgame is not affected at all..... the truth is endgame gets hurt the most usually.... that being the reason end game players are getting more and more frustrated....

I don't see how someone logging on and playing solo could possibly hurt an end game player. Please give a specific example so I can understand where you are coming from.

very easy.... let's talk animation cancling... a lot of end game players love this feature but solo and casual players want it removed because they consider it an exploit/ bug even though zos states its a feature..... second pvp meta atm the proc meta exists purely so casual and solo players can have a chance at being decent in pvp from the get go by just wearing the correct set and having no pvp knowledge.... pvp players hates this meta because your sets do all your damage for you.... thirdly continues dungeon nerfs because dungeons are too hard for casual solo players..... good example is ruins of mazatun used to be a bit of a challenge with made it fun.... now it's just a snore fest with no real chance of actually dying(this coming from n pvp player who only ever does dungeon if he wants a skin or armor from the dungeon)..... talking about skins.... used to be the reward for hardmode no death and speedrun achievement.... solo and casual player complained that it's too hard now it's granted for just completing the dungeon on vet.... I can go on but I have a question for you.... why is it fine for solo players to ask for a solo version for dungeons trials ic cyrodil etc but it's not ok for end game players to ask for a optional vet overland for those who wants a bit of a challenge?

Animation cancelling


A lot of casual and solo players love this feature because it allows them to....solo

PvP meta proc sets

Is simply the latest king of the Hill after every other nerf that's been screamed about by PvP(wings, shields, streak, everything nightblade, take flight, vamps, werewolves, dawnbreaker, necromancer period, Templars just to name a few off the top of my head. PvP always has a new meta, and always scream x is unfair)

Dungeons

The whole concept I've read is to have solo version and die hards have their version, not nerf it. Solo doesn't do the hardest content(unless they enjoy a challenge) I think that's why it got brought up to begin with.

It's easy to claim x is so because of y. I like this game!

SshadowSscale

Lumenn wrote: »

SshadowSscale wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

SshadowSscale wrote: »

end game players gets affected a lot by casual players.... unlike you stated where endgame is not affected at all..... the truth is endgame gets hurt the most usually.... that being the reason end game players are getting more and more frustrated....

I don't see how someone logging on and playing solo could possibly hurt an end game player. Please give a specific example so I can understand where you are coming from.

very easy.... let's talk animation cancling... a lot of end game players love this feature but solo and casual players want it removed because they consider it an exploit/ bug even though zos states its a feature..... second pvp meta atm the proc meta exists purely so casual and solo players can have a chance at being decent in pvp from the get go by just wearing the correct set and having no pvp knowledge.... pvp players hates this meta because your sets do all your damage for you.... thirdly continues dungeon nerfs because dungeons are too hard for casual solo players..... good example is ruins of mazatun used to be a bit of a challenge with made it fun.... now it's just a snore fest with no real chance of actually dying(this coming from n pvp player who only ever does dungeon if he wants a skin or armor from the dungeon)..... talking about skins.... used to be the reward for hardmode no death and speedrun achievement.... solo and casual player complained that it's too hard now it's granted for just completing the dungeon on vet.... I can go on but I have a question for you.... why is it fine for solo players to ask for a solo version for dungeons trials ic cyrodil etc but it's not ok for end game players to ask for a optional vet overland for those who wants a bit of a challenge?

Animation cancelling


A lot of casual and solo players love this feature because it allows them to....solo

PvP meta proc sets

Is simply the latest king of the Hill after every other nerf that's been screamed about by PvP(wings, shields, streak, everything nightblade, take flight, vamps, werewolves, dawnbreaker, necromancer period, Templars just to name a few off the top of my head. PvP always has a new meta, and always scream x is unfair)

Dungeons

The whole concept I've read is to have solo version and die hards have their version, not nerf it. Solo doesn't do the hardest content(unless they enjoy a challenge) I think that's why it got brought up to begin with.

It's easy to claim x is so because of y. I like this game!

nope it's casuals and solo that is rooting for animation canceling to get rid of.... end game players love this feature way too much to nuke it.... rip block canceling...... the proc meta exists because of buffs too proc sets because guess what... casual and solo said that zos needs to address the the players who 1v2 1v3 etc because they are abusing the game so proc sets got buffed to help solo casuals

and the dungeon part.... thing is many of them already got nerfed and newer dungeons are released way easier than dungeons that came. before that.... end game players are always asking for harder dungeons so it is not the end game players that asked for nerfs

Brenticus12

SilverBride wrote: »

Eedat wrote: »

Heaven forbid people fight for the scraps. I swear people won't be happy until they hand out Godslayer mounts to players solo clearing vSS with 5k dps.

I've not seen a single person say there should be "Godslayer" rewards for solo content. People who want to play solo dungeons and trials want to do so for the experience, not the loot. If they want the best loot they will run vet content. You don't have to choose to play just one or the other.

It comes eventually lmao. I recall back when vMoL was difficult there were plenty of people complaining about having to do group content in order to get the skin. There was someone asking for the content to be nerfed because progging with a group was too hard for them. This wasn't a one off either because there were multiple people that agreed with him at the time (And plenty of arguing in those threads).

There were also arguments over the fact that you could only get the silver skin from vAS by doing +2.

[snip]

[Edited to Remove Rude/Insulting comment]

A_Silverius

SilverBride wrote: »

I will repeat this again. MMO means multiple people can play simultaneously. It does not mean multiple people are expected to play together.

And I'm saying that the point of multiple people playing simultaneously is engage in multiplayer activities. I'm totally fine if people want to play solo in a multiplayer game, but ESO is an MMORPG not a Singleplayer game with a Multiplayer lobby.

SilverBride wrote: »

Why is it ok for you to ask for increased difficulty that would force veteran players into grouping, but not ok for the majority of the players to ask for solo dungeons and trials so they can experience something they may otherwise miss out on?

Actually, I'm one of those players that ask for solo "story mode" dungeons and trials. And I don't think I said no one can ask for solo content, I said Mutiplayer should be the main focus for an MMO. And no, I do not want to force players into grouping that's why I would suggest a difficulty toggle that would send players to a separate Veteran Zone Channel or maybe a toggle that would scale the player's stats.

SilverBride wrote: »

The main focus of a multiplayer game is whatever the player wants it to be. I interact with others around me all the time. I join their guilds, I talk to them, I help them when people call out in zone, I give free Vampire bites. That is multiplayer to me.

Yes, this is what I am asking for and want more of.

SilverBride

A_Silverius wrote: »

Lumenn wrote: »

You keep saying multiplayer like it actually means forced grouping while others claim it means multiple players sharing the same world.

Actually I think it's the other way round, people keep thinking multiplayer means forced grouping. Multiplayer shouldn't necessarily need a group at all, it's the interaction with other players that share the same world that makes the MMO.

I see statements all the time like "If you want to play solo why are you playing a multiplayer game?" which is what prompted me to start this thread in the first place. All multiplayer means is that multiple people can play at the same time. No focus is implied.

I play solo almost all the time, but I think I have a much more social and rewarding experience because of the other ways I choose to interact with those around me.

In my opinion, players who only jump into a queue, or run a dungeon or trial with players they don't speak a single word to or ever see in game again, are the ones who are missing the whole point.

SshadowSscale

Brenticus12 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Eedat wrote: »

Heaven forbid people fight for the scraps. I swear people won't be happy until they hand out Godslayer mounts to players solo clearing vSS with 5k dps.

I've not seen a single person say there should be "Godslayer" rewards for solo content. People who want to play solo dungeons and trials want to do so for the experience, not the loot. If they want the best loot they will run vet content. You don't have to choose to play just one or the other.

It comes eventually lmao. I recall back when vMoL was difficult there were plenty of people complaining about having to do group content in order to get the skin. There was someone asking for the content to be nerfed because progging with a group was too hard for them. This wasn't a one off either because there were multiple people that agreed with him at the time (And plenty of arguing in those threads).

There were also arguments over the fact that you could only get the silver skin from vAS by doing +2.

[snip]

[Edited to Remove Rude/Insulting comment]

yup always haooens... they claim they don't care if they do not get rewards but then complain afterwards because what's the point if they cannot event get the shiny reward....

volkeswagon

I'm not sure who you are talking about but i think 99% of the people see this game the way you pointed out. That one doesn't have to play in groups all the time. That you play by yourself most of the time if you choose. The game was designed for both group and solo play. Zenimaz designed it that way and everyone views it that way. So I don't understand the point of the post.

SilverBride

volkeswagon wrote: »

I'm not sure who you are talking about but i think 99% of the people see this game the way you pointed out. That one doesn't have to play in groups all the time. That you play by yourself most of the time if you choose. The game was designed for both group and solo play. Zenimaz designed it that way and everyone views it that way. So I don't understand the point of the post.

Everyone doesn't view it that way, and I am tired of the complaints. That is the point of this thread. Here is an example of what I am talking about:

kathandira wrote: »

If all content in the game was designed to accessible to solo players, then why are they playing an online game to begin with? If they do not want to group with people, then why not just play a single player offline game?

A_Silverius

SilverBride wrote: »

I play solo almost all the time, but I think I have a much more social and rewarding experience because of the other ways I choose to interact with those around me.

In my opinion, players who only jump into a queue, or run a dungeon or trial with players they don't speak a single word to or ever see in game again, are the ones who are missing the whole point.

Then why would it be a problem to focus on that part of Multiplayer that you enjoy? That's what I'm trying to say. Maybe you misunderstood me when I said "Cooperative Gameplay" I did not mean Boss, Dungeons and Trials alone.

SilverBride

A_Silverius wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I play solo almost all the time, but I think I have a much more social and rewarding experience because of the other ways I choose to interact with those around me.

In my opinion, players who only jump into a queue, or run a dungeon or trial with players they don't speak a single word to or ever see in game again, are the ones who are missing the whole point.

Then why would it be a problem to focus on that part of Multiplayer that you enjoy? That's what I'm trying to say. Maybe you misunderstood me when I said "Cooperative Gameplay" I did not mean Boss, Dungeons and Trials alone.

Yes, I believe I may have misunderstood you. Thank you for clarifying.

But I still don't agree that anyone has to have any interaction with another player ever if that's not what they enjoy.

SeaGtGruff

kathandira wrote: »

If all content in the game was designed to accessible to solo players, then why are they playing an online game to begin with? If they do not want to group with people, then why not just play a single player offline game?

I prefer to play solo for various reasons, but that does not mean that I never want to group up nor interact with other players.

Conversely, sometimes I enjoy grouping up or interacting with other players, but that does not mean that I want to do that all the time when I log in to play the game.

amapola76

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

If all content in the game was designed to accessible to solo players, then why are they playing an online game to begin with? If they do not want to group with people, then why not just play a single player offline game?

I prefer to play solo for various reasons, but that does not mean that I never want to group up nor interact with other players.

Conversely, sometimes I enjoy grouping up or interacting with other players, but that does not mean that I want to do that all the time when I log in to play the game.

Exactly. I think most of us who consider ourselves solo players could better be described as free players or flexible players. We want to play the content in the way we want to play it at any given moment, not forced into socialization or group content. It doesn't mean we don't like those things, just that we want to choose whether to engage in them in a particular situation.

robertthebard

SshadowSscale wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

SshadowSscale wrote: »

end game players gets affected a lot by casual players.... unlike you stated where endgame is not affected at all..... the truth is endgame gets hurt the most usually.... that being the reason end game players are getting more and more frustrated....

I don't see how someone logging on and playing solo could possibly hurt an end game player. Please give a specific example so I can understand where you are coming from.

very easy.... let's talk animation cancling... a lot of end game players love this feature but solo and casual players want it removed because they consider it an exploit/ bug even though zos states its a feature..... second pvp meta atm the proc meta exists purely so casual and solo players can have a chance at being decent in pvp from the get go by just wearing the correct set and having no pvp knowledge.... pvp players hates this meta because your sets do all your damage for you.... thirdly continues dungeon nerfs because dungeons are too hard for casual solo players..... good example is ruins of mazatun used to be a bit of a challenge with made it fun.... now it's just a snore fest with no real chance of actually dying(this coming from n pvp player who only ever does dungeon if he wants a skin or armor from the dungeon)..... talking about skins.... used to be the reward for hardmode no death and speedrun achievement.... solo and casual player complained that it's too hard now it's granted for just completing the dungeon on vet.... I can go on but I have a question for you.... why is it fine for solo players to ask for a solo version for dungeons trials ic cyrodil etc but it's not ok for end game players to ask for a optional vet overland for those who wants a bit of a challenge?

I guess it depends on how you go about it? You see, nowhere have I stated, or implied, that people shouldn't ask for it, I've just stated that I'm against it, and why. In doing so, however, I've never presumed to put words in anyone's mouth, such as "solo and casual players want animation cancelling removed". Hi, I'm a solo player, and I have never asked for this to be removed. I don't consider it a bug, or an exploit, and will even use it, on occasion. It's becoming quite a problem lately that a free exchange of ideas is taboo, because some people can't handle, or don't want to deal with their ideas being challenged.

spartaxoxo

kathandira wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

The basic fact of the matter is that MMO devs want to make As Much Money As Possible. The pool of "hardcore" EQ-style "must always group for everything" players is pretty small - there aren't nearly enough of them to support all the MMOs out there, let alone provide millions of players / Maximum Profit™. So, they need to get All The Players. How do you do that? You make your game accessible to as wide a range of playstyles as possible. Which includes lots of solo & semi-solo players.

"MMOs are only for grouping" hasn't been a thing since before WoW.
(and yes, I played WoW back in vanilla. 98% of the time solo.)

I'm in between the two. I feel like ESO has it's sweet spot just right. There is solo content for those who want it, and there is a group content for those who want it. But to make all content soloable, makes doing the same content in a group pointless.

If the rewards were less powerful, but still powerful enough to do every dungeon and trial in solo mode, then why bother with group mode? Further, at that point, why bother making this an online game at all?

An easy fix to that is make the solo versions of those places not drop gear or non-quest related achievements. That way there is a reason to do group content, which is the current real reason anyone does that stuff, and that is gear.

volkeswagon

SilverBride wrote: »

volkeswagon wrote: »

I'm not sure who you are talking about but i think 99% of the people see this game the way you pointed out. That one doesn't have to play in groups all the time. That you play by yourself most of the time if you choose. The game was designed for both group and solo play. Zenimaz designed it that way and everyone views it that way. So I don't understand the point of the post.

Everyone doesn't view it that way, and I am tired of the complaints. That is the point of this thread. Here is an example of what I am talking about:

kathandira wrote: »

If all content in the game was designed to accessible to solo players, then why are they playing an online game to begin with? If they do not want to group with people, then why not just play a single player offline game?

Fortunately for me i don't know anyone like that so I don't have to bother getting upset over it. Shouldn't worry about other peoples opinions. Opinions are often misinformed and are just that, opinions. I play the game how I want. If I want to do a trial I will join a group cause I would like to not die at the first mob. I could try doing it solo but It won't work. But I don't need a tank and healer to do crating writs, decorate my house or farm mats.

SilverBride

volkeswagon wrote: »

Fortunately for me i don't know anyone like that so I don't have to bother getting upset over it.

I'm not upset over it. I just see so many comments like I mentioned, and threads saying overland should be harder so people will have to group because it's an MMO, and honestly I'm tired of hearing it. Especially when they have the wrong idea of what an MMO is.

That is why I started this thread. To get the fact across that playing a game others are also playing doesn't mean we need to play together in groups.

SshadowSscale

SilverBride wrote: »

volkeswagon wrote: »

Fortunately for me i don't know anyone like that so I don't have to bother getting upset over it.

I'm not upset over it. I just see so many comments like I mentioned, and threads saying overland should be harder so people will have to group because it's an MMO, and honestly I'm tired of hearing it. Especially when they have the wrong idea of what an MMO is.

That is why I started this thread. To get the fact across that playing a game others are also playing doesn't mean we need to play together in groups.

clearly you misunderstood those threads because most of them is asking for a more difficult(vet) option for overland content.... not here the word option... meaning it's up to the player if they want the easy overland or the vet overland.... not forcing anyone into harder overland

SilverBride

SshadowSscale wrote: »

clearly you misunderstood those threads because most of them is asking for a more difficult(vet) option for overland content.... not here the word option... meaning it's up to the player if they want the easy overland or the vet overland.... not forcing anyone into harder overland

I didn't misunderstand anything. I know the thread you are talking about wanting optional vet overland content and repeatable storyline bosses in vet level with vet rewards. That isn't what I am referring to here.

You may not have noticed comments like the ones I mentioned, but I have. They are out there.

Lumenn

SilverBride wrote: »

volkeswagon wrote: »

Fortunately for me i don't know anyone like that so I don't have to bother getting upset over it.

I'm not upset over it. I just see so many comments like I mentioned, and threads saying overland should be harder so people will have to group because it's an MMO, and honestly I'm tired of hearing it. Especially when they have the wrong idea of what an MMO is.

That is why I started this thread. To get the fact across that playing a game others are also playing doesn't mean we need to play together in groups.

You have to keep in mind a lot of this is still NEW! Many of us remember playing Friday night board games, with FRIENDS, before the first NINTENDO came out, much less online games like EQ. MMOs were an extension of that.(who plays D&D solo right?) I was lucky enough to play hard core for years but not everyone gets that. So more demands for solo content came up. As the years went by and more people started working, kids, LIFE the demand gets higher.(WOW was one example as a casual friendly game back then) but even with us old farts we're divided on whether MMO meaning forced grouping or shared world. If you have the time, it's great. Zos isn't stupid, they know there's a greater demand for casual friendly, and cater to it(it's honestly the only thing that got me back into an MMO after years of quitting EQ) but they've got a FAIRLY decent balance going. Solo can solo. Can even challenge some group content. Groups have trials, PvP guilds etc. Ignore the "forced grouping" crowd as it's a leftover from WAY back (one generation lol) and isn't as profitable as the working Joe that wants an hour to him/her/(they?)self and can afford the new shiny.