KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »Anotherone773 wrote: »Ellimist_Entreri wrote: »Anotherone773 wrote: »How about speed runners "git gud" and run vets instead and leave the normal dungeons to those who want a casual/learning/questing experience???
Now there's an idea
The problem really sounds to me like it's the transmute crystal rewards from the random that incentivizes this sort of behavior - if the veteran content provided a higher reward or the normal contents transmute reward was lowered it might help to push many of these users into the higher tier content.
Before that though it was the pledges. I stayed away from pledge dungeons because that is when you always get the people that are like " I have 5 more toons to do pledges on and only 2 hours before bedtime!" Making 2H weapons count as 2 slots for sets changed a lot of builds so that monster sets werent the default go to for meta builds. They are still used sometimes but not like they were. Though having a single mythic once again to offset the balance.
They should just stop with the pledge system or give it its own queue, that would remove some toxic people from the dungeon queue.
porblem isThis is pointless because we're talking about being cheated out of exp, time, and skill points and yet you keep hammering on about experiencing the story which is a deflection from the actual issue.
i think u would describe me as one of these speedrunners too.,..
if i wanna farm something i dont care for story etc but if someone say somethink like wait 10sec i cant sprint that fast i can totaly wait 10sec but often this wont happen normaly these ones who complain about are either 1. not even trying to come to the boss fast 2. wait a year for npcs 3. fight alone 1add/skipped boss (this happens very often in bc 1 or fg 1 (and if they wouldnt know the way i would explain it if they ask)) or 4. are reading the quest
if i would wait for all of these 4 points above i would so far only be able to do half the runs i did now
maybe some say something like i mensioned above but i ve never met one of these
KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »Anotherone773 wrote: »Ellimist_Entreri wrote: »Anotherone773 wrote: »How about speed runners "git gud" and run vets instead and leave the normal dungeons to those who want a casual/learning/questing experience???
Now there's an idea
The problem really sounds to me like it's the transmute crystal rewards from the random that incentivizes this sort of behavior - if the veteran content provided a higher reward or the normal contents transmute reward was lowered it might help to push many of these users into the higher tier content.
Before that though it was the pledges. I stayed away from pledge dungeons because that is when you always get the people that are like " I have 5 more toons to do pledges on and only 2 hours before bedtime!" Making 2H weapons count as 2 slots for sets changed a lot of builds so that monster sets werent the default go to for meta builds. They are still used sometimes but not like they were. Though having a single mythic once again to offset the balance.
They should just stop with the pledge system or give it its own queue, that would remove some toxic people from the dungeon queue.
porblem isThis is pointless because we're talking about being cheated out of exp, time, and skill points and yet you keep hammering on about experiencing the story which is a deflection from the actual issue.
i think u would describe me as one of these speedrunners too.,..
if i wanna farm something i dont care for story etc but if someone say somethink like wait 10sec i cant sprint that fast i can totaly wait 10sec but often this wont happen normaly these ones who complain about are either 1. not even trying to come to the boss fast 2. wait a year for npcs 3. fight alone 1add/skipped boss (this happens very often in bc 1 or fg 1 (and if they wouldnt know the way i would explain it if they ask)) or 4. are reading the quest
if i would wait for all of these 4 points above i would so far only be able to do half the runs i did now
maybe some say something like i mensioned above but i ve never met one of these
That is the best part. The people that need a little bit more time to get to the boss in a dungeon always ignore you when you ask them about it (for example when you see their low level).
Sounds like ZOS could solve this problem by allowing us to queue solo for random normals.
alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »this should change next year with ne cp' trees
I think many people are right when they point out reducing the incentive because that will win 9/10 times.
if the incentive for normal completion was lowered by half or more than I think we could see a drop in speed runners rushing through normal dungeons.
putting in separate queues, making more filters, etc. all arbitrary and more likely to punish others than the speed runners as they will likely do whatever is most convenient for themselves with no regard for others - if you want to reduce their participation then reduce their incentive,
I think many people are right when they point out reducing the incentive because that will win 9/10 times.
if the incentive for normal completion was lowered by half or more than I think we could see a drop in speed runners rushing through normal dungeons.
putting in separate queues, making more filters, etc. all arbitrary and more likely to punish others than the speed runners as they will likely do whatever is most convenient for themselves with no regard for others - if you want to reduce their participation then reduce their incentive,
The transmute crystals 100% need to be removed from the GF reward and placed as a drop on the last boss instead. That is the solution.
Sounds like ZOS could solve this problem by allowing us to queue solo for random normals.
It’s clear from some of the posts in this thread that some people’s definition of a speed run is anything where you can’t read all the quest dialogue. I think that is pretty extreme. You will be hard pressed to find 3 other people in the game who want to go that slow. That said, I have done it before because a guild-mate asked. They wanted to get all the lore books, etc, for a new dungeon and take their time. You will not find people willing to go below “normal” pace in the group finder. Normal is generally not sprinting to the last boss, but definitely burning through everything ASAP.
ZOS should have addressed the fake roles situation a long time ago. This situation is only getting worse(expanding with speedrunners), and it getting worse was only a question of time. Since nothing is done to stop those types of players. My guess is, that pretty soon players like that will find yet another way to screw over regular players.
Just place heavy restrictions on roles to stop fake roles. Besides that: Do not allow bossfights to be skipped, and do not allow bossfights to start with less than 3 players in the boss arena. Speedrunner problem solved.
kain.winterhearteb17_ESO wrote: »@Recent, do not hesitate to initiate vote for kicking speedrunner out of the group, and if one fails - start another one immediately to maximize your chances. That's the only way I see to make them think before trying to ruin experience for others.
Hapexamendios wrote: »I'll go as fast as I can and kill everything on the way. If someone can't keep up with no enemies around, that is their problem. If you're doing the story, catching up is easy and up to you. Reverse is also true, if I'm doing the quest it incumbent on me to catch up.
Nordic__Knights wrote: »Hapexamendios wrote: »I'll go as fast as I can and kill everything on the way. If someone can't keep up with no enemies around, that is their problem. If you're doing the story, catching up is easy and up to you. Reverse is also true, if I'm doing the quest it incumbent on me to catch up.
do you know there is npcs that take 2-3 mins to talk before player can even talk to the npc (DSC1&2) so theres no catch up time if others go ahead even without adds being around
Hapexamendios wrote: »Nordic__Knights wrote: »Hapexamendios wrote: »I'll go as fast as I can and kill everything on the way. If someone can't keep up with no enemies around, that is their problem. If you're doing the story, catching up is easy and up to you. Reverse is also true, if I'm doing the quest it incumbent on me to catch up.
do you know there is npcs that take 2-3 mins to talk before player can even talk to the npc (DSC1&2) so theres no catch up time if others go ahead even without adds being around
Been on both sides of that. It's irrelevant and doesn't change anything.
Hapexamendios wrote: »Nordic__Knights wrote: »Hapexamendios wrote: »I'll go as fast as I can and kill everything on the way. If someone can't keep up with no enemies around, that is their problem. If you're doing the story, catching up is easy and up to you. Reverse is also true, if I'm doing the quest it incumbent on me to catch up.
do you know there is npcs that take 2-3 mins to talk before player can even talk to the npc (DSC1&2) so theres no catch up time if others go ahead even without adds being around
Been on both sides of that. It's irrelevant and doesn't change anything.
Once again it is NOT irrelevant.
A very short, non complete list of dungeons where you are REQUIRED to clear mobs, packs, or wait for npcs in order to get the skill points for completion:
Banished Cells - YOU MUST Talk to Keeper Cirion after each encounter and engage with him in order to meet him at the final boss for the skill point. Don't do this, or your group runs ahead without you (and him)? No skill point.
Tempest Island - YOU MUST clear EVERY group of lamias on the first beach in order to progress the skill point quest. AND THEN you MUST talk to the quest giver in order to advance the quest. Don't do this or your group runs ahead and skips them? No skill point
Elden Hollow - YOU MUST clear the area in front of each of the alters in order to receive the skill point after the final boss. If your group runs past the trash mobs in front of the 2nd alter, you cannot progress the quest and you will NOT receive a skill point. Additionally, after clearing the trash there is a 30 second timer, a literal timer on the screen that counts down until the npc moves on.
Arx Corinium - No Nereids? No skill point, you fought a crocodile for nothing.
Direfrost Keep - No speaking stones activated? No skill points.
It goes on and on and on.
So what does that mean?
It means the speed runner who decided that the rest of the group could go to Oblivion is wasting everyones time. Because you have to not only return to the dungeon, but also the quest starts over from the beginning. You can't go back to where you left off, you have to redo it in its entirety. Because you didn't want to wait 60 seconds.
Just like another poster said...if the tables were turned and pledge bosses were being skipped, you lot would absolutely lose your minds.
KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »Hapexamendios wrote: »Nordic__Knights wrote: »Hapexamendios wrote: »I'll go as fast as I can and kill everything on the way. If someone can't keep up with no enemies around, that is their problem. If you're doing the story, catching up is easy and up to you. Reverse is also true, if I'm doing the quest it incumbent on me to catch up.
do you know there is npcs that take 2-3 mins to talk before player can even talk to the npc (DSC1&2) so theres no catch up time if others go ahead even without adds being around
Been on both sides of that. It's irrelevant and doesn't change anything.
Once again it is NOT irrelevant.
A very short, non complete list of dungeons where you are REQUIRED to clear mobs, packs, or wait for npcs in order to get the skill points for completion:
Banished Cells - YOU MUST Talk to Keeper Cirion after each encounter and engage with him in order to meet him at the final boss for the skill point. Don't do this, or your group runs ahead without you (and him)? No skill point.
Tempest Island - YOU MUST clear EVERY group of lamias on the first beach in order to progress the skill point quest. AND THEN you MUST talk to the quest giver in order to advance the quest. Don't do this or your group runs ahead and skips them? No skill point
Elden Hollow - YOU MUST clear the area in front of each of the alters in order to receive the skill point after the final boss. If your group runs past the trash mobs in front of the 2nd alter, you cannot progress the quest and you will NOT receive a skill point. Additionally, after clearing the trash there is a 30 second timer, a literal timer on the screen that counts down until the npc moves on.
Arx Corinium - No Nereids? No skill point, you fought a crocodile for nothing.
Direfrost Keep - No speaking stones activated? No skill points.
It goes on and on and on.
So what does that mean?
It means the speed runner who decided that the rest of the group could go to Oblivion is wasting everyones time. Because you have to not only return to the dungeon, but also the quest starts over from the beginning. You can't go back to where you left off, you have to redo it in its entirety. Because you didn't want to wait 60 seconds.
Just like another poster said...if the tables were turned and pledge bosses were being skipped, you lot would absolutely lose your minds.
yea if speedrunner are to fast for the group they maybe waste time of others
but if speedrunner slow down they lose there own time
and for me i follow a simple rule
my time > stranger's time
KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »Hapexamendios wrote: »Nordic__Knights wrote: »Hapexamendios wrote: »I'll go as fast as I can and kill everything on the way. If someone can't keep up with no enemies around, that is their problem. If you're doing the story, catching up is easy and up to you. Reverse is also true, if I'm doing the quest it incumbent on me to catch up.
do you know there is npcs that take 2-3 mins to talk before player can even talk to the npc (DSC1&2) so theres no catch up time if others go ahead even without adds being around
Been on both sides of that. It's irrelevant and doesn't change anything.
Once again it is NOT irrelevant.
A very short, non complete list of dungeons where you are REQUIRED to clear mobs, packs, or wait for npcs in order to get the skill points for completion:
Banished Cells - YOU MUST Talk to Keeper Cirion after each encounter and engage with him in order to meet him at the final boss for the skill point. Don't do this, or your group runs ahead without you (and him)? No skill point.
Tempest Island - YOU MUST clear EVERY group of lamias on the first beach in order to progress the skill point quest. AND THEN you MUST talk to the quest giver in order to advance the quest. Don't do this or your group runs ahead and skips them? No skill point
Elden Hollow - YOU MUST clear the area in front of each of the alters in order to receive the skill point after the final boss. If your group runs past the trash mobs in front of the 2nd alter, you cannot progress the quest and you will NOT receive a skill point. Additionally, after clearing the trash there is a 30 second timer, a literal timer on the screen that counts down until the npc moves on.
Arx Corinium - No Nereids? No skill point, you fought a crocodile for nothing.
Direfrost Keep - No speaking stones activated? No skill points.
It goes on and on and on.
So what does that mean?
It means the speed runner who decided that the rest of the group could go to Oblivion is wasting everyones time. Because you have to not only return to the dungeon, but also the quest starts over from the beginning. You can't go back to where you left off, you have to redo it in its entirety. Because you didn't want to wait 60 seconds.
Just like another poster said...if the tables were turned and pledge bosses were being skipped, you lot would absolutely lose your minds.
yea if speedrunner are to fast for the group they maybe waste time of others
but if speedrunner slow down they lose there own time
and for me i follow a simple rule
my time > stranger's time
Anotherone773 wrote: »It’s clear from some of the posts in this thread that some people’s definition of a speed run is anything where you can’t read all the quest dialogue. I think that is pretty extreme. You will be hard pressed to find 3 other people in the game who want to go that slow. That said, I have done it before because a guild-mate asked. They wanted to get all the lore books, etc, for a new dungeon and take their time. You will not find people willing to go below “normal” pace in the group finder. Normal is generally not sprinting to the last boss, but definitely burning through everything ASAP.
100% disagree and strongly disagree with the bolded part. I have been in loads of normal DF groups in which we went at a slower pace for quests. We have stopped to explain boss mechanics even if no one has asked, we even spend time socializing at times. I once spent 2 hours running white gold tower because the newbies struggled with mechanics. Some of the best tanks i have ever played with in this game have stopped and waited for new players and while we were waiting for the new player, he was tossing out tips and such almost all of which i already knew but the other person seemed to only know some of it.
Reward driven players say things like " normal is not sprinting but burning through everything ASAP. " These players cannot comprehend why you would want to take longer than absolutely necessary to do content. They then get annoyed when people take their time to do content.
Fun driven players don't care about hurrying up to get the reward, or being fast or the best. The journey is what they care about. A majority of players, not only in dungeons, but the game are fun driven, not reward driven.