Most efficient way? Are we getting paid for how much or how many times we complete content? Is there a list of posted requirements where you're only allowed to play if you do X amount of content in Y amount of time? When did the game get turned into a job that has to be completed in the "most efficient way"?
Princess_Kassiopeia wrote: »It would be good if DOORS were made 4 Lock sensitive. That is, unless all four players unlocked the door to the next system nobody would get through and everyone would stay safe together.
If you think about this and that everyone has paid to play this and all deserve progress in whatever format that comes in from fight victories...... it makes perfect sense..... and makes me wonder why it isnt implemented initially.
I do a lot of random normals when I have the time and I tend to go fast (not running past mobs tho, I kill them, I hate getting stuck in combat). I don't care about the xp I want the crystals. It's because I have 15 characters and I like to partake in end game stuff with all of them, so I want to clone the best gear for all of them. Even though endgame content doesn't change, it's still very refreshing to play that content with different classes and different builds. And that requires a ton of transmute crystals. I dislike pvp so getting crystals from there is not my preference. For better or for worse, that points people like me to random normal dungeons. Like you said, ZoS should've thought about these implications more.
You call players being unable to normally pug-group in an MMO, and being unable to normally learn mechanics in the content which was build for it, a win-win situation? ... Very odd. Not to mention destroying the game as more and more players leave due to that type of toxic behaviour, is not a win situation either.
ZOS should control this situation asap, as the MMO part of an MMO is very very important!
Tsar_Gekkou wrote: »I don't know why people are so scared of looking for like-minded players. You could form a guild for newer players who want to take things slow and advertise in zone chat. You could also ask for people to slow down a bit in dungeons, but I see people who stay behind to do a quest and never bother to say anything, and then wonder why everyone else is so far ahead. I myself like to stay behind the tank because I don't like giving free rides to tanks who just spam light attacks while i'm tanking most of the dungeon but not getting most of the tank's drops, gold, and xp.
etchedpixels wrote: »Princess_Kassiopeia wrote: »It would be good if DOORS were made 4 Lock sensitive. That is, unless all four players unlocked the door to the next system nobody would get through and everyone would stay safe together.
If you think about this and that everyone has paid to play this and all deserve progress in whatever format that comes in from fight victories...... it makes perfect sense..... and makes me wonder why it isnt implemented initially.
So every time someone quits, crashes, has to go attend to their child for 15 minutes you are stuffed ?
Princess_Kassiopeia wrote: »It would be good if DOORS were made 4 Lock sensitive. That is, unless all four players unlocked the door to the next system nobody would get through and everyone would stay safe together.
If you think about this and that everyone has paid to play this and all deserve progress in whatever format that comes in from fight victories...... it makes perfect sense..... and makes me wonder why it isnt implemented initially.
Princess_Kassiopeia wrote: »It would be good if DOORS were made 4 Lock sensitive. That is, unless all four players unlocked the door to the next system nobody would get through and everyone would stay safe together.
If you think about this and that everyone has paid to play this and all deserve progress in whatever format that comes in from fight victories...... it makes perfect sense..... and makes me wonder why it isnt implemented initially.
Having doors throughout the dungeon that required all so players to be at the door would create a nightmare.
Such a design would force groups to fail of they lost a member and could not get the spot filled. Groups wise enough to kick a fake tank would be hesitant since it could create an automatic group fail.
A “solution” that creates bigger problems than it solves is not a solution.
Again, pre-form the group is an amazing solution when wanting specific types of groups.
spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »MasterSpatula wrote: »The whole point of offering rewards for random dungeons is to incentivize people to use the Group Finder so they can help each other form groups. Keeping people out of the GF would be counterproductive.
Perhaps a good solution would be to reduce the reward for Random Normals to 5 crystals and keep the reward for Vet Randoms at 10. That way, people who are only running Randoms for themelves and are so irredeemably selfish as to behave this way will be filtered into the dungeons where it's a little harder for them to ruin it for everyone else.
But don't keep those of us who actually want to run a normal or two out. Just because I may be able to solo or nearly solo some of the non-DLC normals on my main doesn't mean I can do it on a baby alt that I have fewer skillpoints, gear, and personal experience invested in, even if that alt is a CP810 on paper.
If the only way you can run normals is to prevent other people in your group from completing the content, then you should absolutely be removed from GF
You're not prevented from completing the dungeon by slowing down and waiting for npcs to finish talking so a lowbie can turn in their quest. However someone speeding through the dungeon so that other players can't complete the requirements for their skill point, or locking them out of dungeons or loot is absolutely harmful.
Take the crystals out of the GF random reward and the speedrunners with it. That's literally all that needs to be done.
@Faiza
There is no need to act like all or even most speed runners are so inconsiderate that they would kill a boss without the group able to receive credit.
There is because that's exactly what's happening.
Everyone comes on the forums and claims to be the most upstanding player ever, but you know very well that this wouldn't be an issue if this wasn't happening.
During the undaunted event players couldn't even get their daily gold box because someone with Wild Hunt would queue up and run to the end of the dungeon before the rest of the group could catch up - there's threads about that here too.
It IS happening, but it's not that common. People remember bad experiences more than good ones, so the times someone screwed you out of loot and ruined everything will have increased significance over the many times it didn't happen. That's especially true if someone doesn't like speed runs to begin with.
I haven't been screwed out of the final boss once, and the one time someone killed the first needed boss without the group, that person was kicked.
spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »MasterSpatula wrote: »The whole point of offering rewards for random dungeons is to incentivize people to use the Group Finder so they can help each other form groups. Keeping people out of the GF would be counterproductive.
Perhaps a good solution would be to reduce the reward for Random Normals to 5 crystals and keep the reward for Vet Randoms at 10. That way, people who are only running Randoms for themelves and are so irredeemably selfish as to behave this way will be filtered into the dungeons where it's a little harder for them to ruin it for everyone else.
But don't keep those of us who actually want to run a normal or two out. Just because I may be able to solo or nearly solo some of the non-DLC normals on my main doesn't mean I can do it on a baby alt that I have fewer skillpoints, gear, and personal experience invested in, even if that alt is a CP810 on paper.
If the only way you can run normals is to prevent other people in your group from completing the content, then you should absolutely be removed from GF
You're not prevented from completing the dungeon by slowing down and waiting for npcs to finish talking so a lowbie can turn in their quest. However someone speeding through the dungeon so that other players can't complete the requirements for their skill point, or locking them out of dungeons or loot is absolutely harmful.
Take the crystals out of the GF random reward and the speedrunners with it. That's literally all that needs to be done.
@Faiza
There is no need to act like all or even most speed runners are so inconsiderate that they would kill a boss without the group able to receive credit.
There is because that's exactly what's happening.
Everyone comes on the forums and claims to be the most upstanding player ever, but you know very well that this wouldn't be an issue if this wasn't happening.
During the undaunted event players couldn't even get their daily gold box because someone with Wild Hunt would queue up and run to the end of the dungeon before the rest of the group could catch up - there's threads about that here too.
It IS happening, but it's not that common. People remember bad experiences more than good ones, so the times someone screwed you out of loot and ruined everything will have increased significance over the many times it didn't happen. That's especially true if someone doesn't like speed runs to begin with.
I haven't been screwed out of the final boss once, and the one time someone killed the first needed boss without the group, that person was kicked.
Yes, you've already told us that you are a speed runner and prefer it that way, you don't need to downplay everyone elses experiences to justify it.
It is common enough to be a problem that needs to be addressed.
spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »MasterSpatula wrote: »The whole point of offering rewards for random dungeons is to incentivize people to use the Group Finder so they can help each other form groups. Keeping people out of the GF would be counterproductive.
Perhaps a good solution would be to reduce the reward for Random Normals to 5 crystals and keep the reward for Vet Randoms at 10. That way, people who are only running Randoms for themelves and are so irredeemably selfish as to behave this way will be filtered into the dungeons where it's a little harder for them to ruin it for everyone else.
But don't keep those of us who actually want to run a normal or two out. Just because I may be able to solo or nearly solo some of the non-DLC normals on my main doesn't mean I can do it on a baby alt that I have fewer skillpoints, gear, and personal experience invested in, even if that alt is a CP810 on paper.
If the only way you can run normals is to prevent other people in your group from completing the content, then you should absolutely be removed from GF
You're not prevented from completing the dungeon by slowing down and waiting for npcs to finish talking so a lowbie can turn in their quest. However someone speeding through the dungeon so that other players can't complete the requirements for their skill point, or locking them out of dungeons or loot is absolutely harmful.
Take the crystals out of the GF random reward and the speedrunners with it. That's literally all that needs to be done.
@Faiza
There is no need to act like all or even most speed runners are so inconsiderate that they would kill a boss without the group able to receive credit.
There is because that's exactly what's happening.
Everyone comes on the forums and claims to be the most upstanding player ever, but you know very well that this wouldn't be an issue if this wasn't happening.
During the undaunted event players couldn't even get their daily gold box because someone with Wild Hunt would queue up and run to the end of the dungeon before the rest of the group could catch up - there's threads about that here too.
It IS happening, but it's not that common. People remember bad experiences more than good ones, so the times someone screwed you out of loot and ruined everything will have increased significance over the many times it didn't happen. That's especially true if someone doesn't like speed runs to begin with.
I haven't been screwed out of the final boss once, and the one time someone killed the first needed boss without the group, that person was kicked.
Yes, you've already told us that you are a speed runner and prefer it that way, you don't need to downplay everyone elses experiences to justify it.
It is common enough to be a problem that needs to be addressed.
@Faiza
When people are painting everyone with a preferred playstyle with a toxic brush, yes you do need to remind me that it's the minority that are really toxic about it.
If people claimed everyone that went slow were afk'ing a lot, constantly going through their inventories, and picking up every sack and barrel, people who prefer to go slow would rightfully point out that is the minority of people going slower. And yet, it's perfectly okay to act like everyone or most everyone who goes fast intentionally kill bosses before anyone else can get there. When that is a minority of fast runs. And a lot of abusive language is being hurled at everyone who goes fast, over a toxic minoriry.
So yes, it does need to be stated that the majority of fast runs everyone gets the bosses they need. And majority of people who don't wait for their team to kill the bosses end up kicked well before the final boss.
spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »MasterSpatula wrote: »The whole point of offering rewards for random dungeons is to incentivize people to use the Group Finder so they can help each other form groups. Keeping people out of the GF would be counterproductive.
Perhaps a good solution would be to reduce the reward for Random Normals to 5 crystals and keep the reward for Vet Randoms at 10. That way, people who are only running Randoms for themelves and are so irredeemably selfish as to behave this way will be filtered into the dungeons where it's a little harder for them to ruin it for everyone else.
But don't keep those of us who actually want to run a normal or two out. Just because I may be able to solo or nearly solo some of the non-DLC normals on my main doesn't mean I can do it on a baby alt that I have fewer skillpoints, gear, and personal experience invested in, even if that alt is a CP810 on paper.
If the only way you can run normals is to prevent other people in your group from completing the content, then you should absolutely be removed from GF
You're not prevented from completing the dungeon by slowing down and waiting for npcs to finish talking so a lowbie can turn in their quest. However someone speeding through the dungeon so that other players can't complete the requirements for their skill point, or locking them out of dungeons or loot is absolutely harmful.
Take the crystals out of the GF random reward and the speedrunners with it. That's literally all that needs to be done.
@Faiza
There is no need to act like all or even most speed runners are so inconsiderate that they would kill a boss without the group able to receive credit.
There is because that's exactly what's happening.
Everyone comes on the forums and claims to be the most upstanding player ever, but you know very well that this wouldn't be an issue if this wasn't happening.
During the undaunted event players couldn't even get their daily gold box because someone with Wild Hunt would queue up and run to the end of the dungeon before the rest of the group could catch up - there's threads about that here too.
It IS happening, but it's not that common. People remember bad experiences more than good ones, so the times someone screwed you out of loot and ruined everything will have increased significance over the many times it didn't happen. That's especially true if someone doesn't like speed runs to begin with.
I haven't been screwed out of the final boss once, and the one time someone killed the first needed boss without the group, that person was kicked.
Yes, you've already told us that you are a speed runner and prefer it that way, you don't need to downplay everyone elses experiences to justify it.
It is common enough to be a problem that needs to be addressed.
@Faiza
When people are painting everyone with a preferred playstyle with a toxic brush, yes you do need to remind me that it's the minority that are really toxic about it.
If people claimed everyone that went slow were afk'ing a lot, constantly going through their inventories, and picking up every sack and barrel, people who prefer to go slow would rightfully point out that is the minority of people going slower. And yet, it's perfectly okay to act like everyone or most everyone who goes fast intentionally kill bosses before anyone else can get there. When that is a minority of fast runs. And a lot of abusive language is being hurled at everyone who goes fast, over a toxic minoriry.
So yes, it does need to be stated that the majority of fast runs everyone gets the bosses they need. And majority of people who don't wait for their team to kill the bosses end up kicked well before the final boss.
Ever heard that saying, If it doesn't apply, let it fly?
Or...a hit dog hollers?
It would be nice if ZOS in 2021 focused on game systems that cause a divide/conflict within the community.
Anotherone773 wrote: »Princess_Kassiopeia wrote: »It would be good if DOORS were made 4 Lock sensitive. That is, unless all four players unlocked the door to the next system nobody would get through and everyone would stay safe together.
If you think about this and that everyone has paid to play this and all deserve progress in whatever format that comes in from fight victories...... it makes perfect sense..... and makes me wonder why it isnt implemented initially.
Having doors throughout the dungeon that required all so players to be at the door would create a nightmare.
Such a design would force groups to fail of they lost a member and could not get the spot filled. Groups wise enough to kick a fake tank would be hesitant since it could create an automatic group fail.
A “solution” that creates bigger problems than it solves is not a solution.
Again, pre-form the group is an amazing solution when wanting specific types of groups.
I am pretty sure you misunderstood what was said. It would only apply to members in group not max group size. so if you have 3 people in the dungeon all 3 people would need to be present not a full group of 4.
Regardless i disagree with the idea because it is the opposite of speed runners forcing everyone to speed up. Now we are forcing everyone to slow down to the slowest person. "No (player) left behind" where have we seen that before and it failed miserably?
The groups pace should be set by the majority of the players, not the fastest or slowest person. Maybe a better idea is that a majority of the active players in group have to be in the boss trigger area? 3 out of 4 people in a full group or 2 out of 3 people in a group with someone disconnected or an empty spot. A disconnected person would be treated as an empty spot, so you don't have to kick them just because they had a connection issue. This middle road option would be a much better solution.
It would be nice if ZOS in 2021 focused on game systems that cause a divide/conflict within the community.
Zos solved this issue years ago by giving us the ability to form our own group. It works marvelously well and thousands of players do this every day. What is amazing about this solution is the group tends to have smoother runs overall than a random GF group of players.
Icy_Waffles wrote: »barney2525 wrote: »Icy_Waffles wrote: »There’s nothing to stop. If you don’t like me running through queued as tank (with inner fire) on a dps character then feel free to leave the group. I don’t care either way.
So your answer is : They get to waste their time and not get to finish the dungeon. If they don't like it, THEY have to leave.
thats wonderful
They clearly do get to finish the dungeon... and then get on with their life.
This comes down to complaining “ransoms” aren’t playing the way you want to play. Group up with like minded players if you want this.
There’s nothing to STOP.
However-
I’m always for more options as people are different and have different preferences. Totally fine. Let me sign up for a speed running carnage run and let new players join a take time to smell the roses group. Lol
Perfectly fine. Neither of these types of players should be punished. Just more options. As of right now.... yeah. Leave if you don’t like it that’s your call.
It would be nice if ZOS in 2021 focused on game systems that cause a divide/conflict within the community.
Zos solved this issue years ago by giving us the ability to form our own group. It works marvelously well and thousands of players do this every day. What is amazing about this solution is the group tends to have smoother runs overall than a random GF group of players.
& yet here we're.
Tools like a global lfg channel or a lfg system similar to GW2 would be beneficial to the community.
Allowing players to form their group is harldy "marvelous", or much effort on ZOS part.
Anotherone773 wrote: »Princess_Kassiopeia wrote: »It would be good if DOORS were made 4 Lock sensitive. That is, unless all four players unlocked the door to the next system nobody would get through and everyone would stay safe together.
If you think about this and that everyone has paid to play this and all deserve progress in whatever format that comes in from fight victories...... it makes perfect sense..... and makes me wonder why it isnt implemented initially.
Having doors throughout the dungeon that required all so players to be at the door would create a nightmare.
Such a design would force groups to fail of they lost a member and could not get the spot filled. Groups wise enough to kick a fake tank would be hesitant since it could create an automatic group fail.
A “solution” that creates bigger problems than it solves is not a solution.
Again, pre-form the group is an amazing solution when wanting specific types of groups.
I am pretty sure you misunderstood what was said. It would only apply to members in group not max group size. so if you have 3 people in the dungeon all 3 people would need to be present not a full group of 4.
Regardless i disagree with the idea because it is the opposite of speed runners forcing everyone to speed up. Now we are forcing everyone to slow down to the slowest person. "No (player) left behind" where have we seen that before and it failed miserably?
The groups pace should be set by the majority of the players, not the fastest or slowest person. Maybe a better idea is that a majority of the active players in group have to be in the boss trigger area? 3 out of 4 people in a full group or 2 out of 3 people in a group with someone disconnected or an empty spot. A disconnected person would be treated as an empty spot, so you don't have to kick them just because they had a connection issue. This middle road option would be a much better solution.
@Anotherone773
Nope. They were very clear in what they stated. They clearly stated all four members of the group would need to be at the door and they mentioned nothing about exceptions nor pre-made groups. Further, the GF does not distinguish any difference between a pre-made group or random players when the GF is used.
I did not misunderstand the post nor did I edit anything out.
Also, it takes a while for a DCed player to be recognized as not in the group anymore. Additionally, if a player leaves a group before they leave the instance the instance still considers that the player is still in the instance for several minutes. This happens in both trials and dungeons and prevents players from filling the vacancy from entering which should also prevent the group from going forward as well.
Additionally, if Zos tried to implement such an idea and complicated the design by having it change by having it adjust to the number of players in the group at that time would merely complicate it and increase the likelihood it would bug out. Anyone who has played ESO lately knows the chances of new systems bugging out is very high.
Again, pre-form the group is an amazing solution when wanting specific types of groups.
Anotherone773 wrote: »Anotherone773 wrote: »Princess_Kassiopeia wrote: »It would be good if DOORS were made 4 Lock sensitive. That is, unless all four players unlocked the door to the next system nobody would get through and everyone would stay safe together.
If you think about this and that everyone has paid to play this and all deserve progress in whatever format that comes in from fight victories...... it makes perfect sense..... and makes me wonder why it isnt implemented initially.
Having doors throughout the dungeon that required all so players to be at the door would create a nightmare.
Such a design would force groups to fail of they lost a member and could not get the spot filled. Groups wise enough to kick a fake tank would be hesitant since it could create an automatic group fail.
A “solution” that creates bigger problems than it solves is not a solution.
Again, pre-form the group is an amazing solution when wanting specific types of groups.
I am pretty sure you misunderstood what was said. It would only apply to members in group not max group size. so if you have 3 people in the dungeon all 3 people would need to be present not a full group of 4.
Regardless i disagree with the idea because it is the opposite of speed runners forcing everyone to speed up. Now we are forcing everyone to slow down to the slowest person. "No (player) left behind" where have we seen that before and it failed miserably?
The groups pace should be set by the majority of the players, not the fastest or slowest person. Maybe a better idea is that a majority of the active players in group have to be in the boss trigger area? 3 out of 4 people in a full group or 2 out of 3 people in a group with someone disconnected or an empty spot. A disconnected person would be treated as an empty spot, so you don't have to kick them just because they had a connection issue. This middle road option would be a much better solution.
@Anotherone773
Nope. They were very clear in what they stated. They clearly stated all four members of the group would need to be at the door and they mentioned nothing about exceptions nor pre-made groups. Further, the GF does not distinguish any difference between a pre-made group or random players when the GF is used.
I did not misunderstand the post nor did I edit anything out.
Also, it takes a while for a DCed player to be recognized as not in the group anymore. Additionally, if a player leaves a group before they leave the instance the instance still considers that the player is still in the instance for several minutes. This happens in both trials and dungeons and prevents players from filling the vacancy from entering which should also prevent the group from going forward as well.
Additionally, if Zos tried to implement such an idea and complicated the design by having it change by having it adjust to the number of players in the group at that time would merely complicate it and increase the likelihood it would bug out. Anyone who has played ESO lately knows the chances of new systems bugging out is very high.
Again, pre-form the group is an amazing solution when wanting specific types of groups.
@idk
Apologies. I somehow mixed up what princess said and what another commenter said. You are correct in the way it was said. I think it would be fine as long a majority of the group was present. It would be a rare occasion someone disconnected from the group at least in my experience. I might see it one every fifty dungeons. It would help make sure that turtles and hares dont hinder the group which is a huge benefit to me that outweighs any negatives.
It would be nice if ZOS in 2021 focused on game systems that cause a divide/conflict within the community.
Zos solved this issue years ago by giving us the ability to form our own group. It works marvelously well and thousands of players do this every day. What is amazing about this solution is the group tends to have smoother runs overall than a random GF group of players.
& yet here we're.
Tools like a global lfg channel or a lfg system similar to GW2 would be beneficial to the community.
Allowing players to form their group is harldy "marvelous", or much effort on ZOS part.
I was not suggesting it was a lot of effort and was merely noting it solves the issue being complained about.
I do not know what GW2 has, but if the person is not willing to use guild chat or zone then it is doubtful they will use a LFG channel. I have no idea why people avoid forming their own group when they seem so unhappy with the groups they get via the GF.
UGotBenched91 wrote: »Icy_Waffles wrote: »barney2525 wrote: »Icy_Waffles wrote: »There’s nothing to stop. If you don’t like me running through queued as tank (with inner fire) on a dps character then feel free to leave the group. I don’t care either way.
So your answer is : They get to waste their time and not get to finish the dungeon. If they don't like it, THEY have to leave.
thats wonderful
They clearly do get to finish the dungeon... and then get on with their life.
This comes down to complaining “ransoms” aren’t playing the way you want to play. Group up with like minded players if you want this.
There’s nothing to STOP.
However-
I’m always for more options as people are different and have different preferences. Totally fine. Let me sign up for a speed running carnage run and let new players join a take time to smell the roses group. Lol
Perfectly fine. Neither of these types of players should be punished. Just more options. As of right now.... yeah. Leave if you don’t like it that’s your call.
Nah don't leave my friend. Vote to kick and enjoy an agreed upon speed while the speed runner sits in a 10-15 minute que.
SupremeRissole wrote: »Some players have limited time to play, so if they can get it done in 10 minutes why would they deliberately slow down and do it in 40 minutes because someone wants to read every dialogue. Even if you kick them for being too fast they can just re-queue and probably still get it done faster than the initial group.
The argument that those players should find like minded players to pre-group, can be said for the slower players as well.
My point being, there is equal validity and reasoning for both slow and fast players, neither group likes the other.
Either way, you can't complain about random pug groups, you may get a really skilled and understanding tank, you may get a nightblade spamming bow light attacks and kiting the boss out of AOE's... it's random and if you dont like it you need to either leave group, kick the guy you don't like, or get on with it.
You think the casual / new player doesn't have limited playing time either...?
Real talk. Are you honestly in favor of screwing other players via wasting their time in a 20+minute long queue, when the current game structure / mechanics doesn't allow them to take part / gain the benefits of the quests or loot simply bc 1 inconsiderate d-bag with no thought for others sprinted ahead without even the slightest bit of courtesy?
The PUG excuse be damned. This is just dumb outdated game mechanics that doesn't take into account the new reality of a diminished player base and power creep. An update is required.
Cmon now.