Urgent: Help new players pls zos, vets are speed running all normal dungeons 😣😣😣

Titansteele

The problem here, as I see it is the slower runners are in a minority as the lifespan for the majority of slow runners is short.

The reasons why the majority approach these dungeons will become valid for those who are currently in the "slow" camp within a short period of time.
There are exceptions to this statement, I acknowledge that but they are not large in numbers.

It has been mentioned in this thread already but in my opinion the resolution to this is for people to join a likeminded guild. We have many vet players but anytime a member says "I am on the Quest" or "Can I see the story" we have gone at whatever pace suited. If you are on PC-EU and want an invite let me know.

KaGaOri

The crazy thing is, that this speedrunning toxic BS wasn't a thing until recently. Have started with dungeons only after Greymoor hit. Didn't ever plan to (prefer playing solo), but ZOS hid mount parts in couple of them and after soloing BC1, then Volenfel three times (no drop) and finding out there's no way I solo BC2 at that point, decided to give group runs a shot. Yes, there were some bad apples even then, but it happened like 1 run in 20 and wasn't tolerated / endorsed by far as much. Generally ppl were fine with waiting on lowbies and if someone asked to pls wait, since they are doing quest, even those who went off fast at the start, usually did. Done all normals for skill point with pug groups and had to requeue only for maybe four of them?

Now 9 out of 10 groups have at least one selfish entitled person ignoring group, ignoring chat and obviously there only for the goodies. Since they have no fun running a dungeon, they make sure no one else has any fun either. The facts, that this person usually queued as tank or healer (since they are obviously special cookie entitled to get priority queue) without any ability or intention to fulfill that role for the group, doesn't help either. There's obvious shift in player mentality from "let's do it together" to "thx for getting me inside dungeon - now sayonara, suckers" and I don't like it. Given how many posts there are about the same problem lately, a lot of others doesn't like it either. We can do better, you guys!

Nezyr_Jezz

URGENT!! ZENIMAX TEACH PEOPLE HOW TO PLAY THE GAME.

I will speedrun the dungeons every time, as most of the things i need from them are hidden behind farming necessity. Im not here for a unique experience every time i want some boots or pants from a dungeon, and because PVP viable gear is tied to dungeons you can thank the devs for people that want to get over with it fast to resume their favoured activity which might not be related to yours. Same thing comes with 10 transmutation stones per random normal dungeon. Because those points are tied to 1 tun per character i will do everything in my power to reduce the time spent on daily necessary activity to give me more "free playtime".

Abovementioned title of the post is as selfish as my own approach. Efficiency doesn't mean being mean or selfish. It means cutting time consuming requirements to minimum to resume meaningfull activities.

If your searching for a unique RP experience maybe you should get same minded people on the daily playlist and excercise those dungeons/activities with them at your own pace. Expecting an experienced player to bow down your speed? Expecting those players bear hours upon hours of item farming only because drop system is ultimately flawed and require multitudes of runs to get a specific item hidden behind a randomness? Maybe instead ask yourself how much farming you have to do to get the gear to be competitive every 3 months when new expansion releases... answer is: a lot.

Nordic__Knights

Nezyr_Jezz wrote: »

URGENT!! ZENIMAX TEACH PEOPLE HOW TO PLAY THE GAME.

I will speedrun the dungeons every time, as most of the things i need from them are hidden behind farming necessity. Im not here for a unique experience every time i want some boots or pants from a dungeon, and because PVP viable gear is tied to dungeons you can thank the devs for people that want to get over with it fast to resume their favoured activity which might not be related to yours. Same thing comes with 10 transmutation stones per random normal dungeon. Because those points are tied to 1 tun per character i will do everything in my power to reduce the time spent on daily necessary activity to give me more "free playtime".

Abovementioned title of the post is as selfish as my own approach. Efficiency doesn't mean being mean or selfish. It means cutting time consuming requirements to minimum to resume meaningfull activities.

If your searching for a unique RP experience maybe you should get same minded people on the daily playlist and excercise those dungeons/activities with them at your own pace. Expecting an experienced player to bow down your speed? Expecting those players bear hours upon hours of item farming only because drop system is ultimately flawed and require multitudes of runs to get a specific item hidden behind a randomness? Maybe instead ask yourself how much farming you have to do to get the gear to be competitive every 3 months when new expansion releases... answer is: a lot.

ask yourself this if we was in group would you go slow ? because you seem to think time played and CP means something i know well i have way more time in this then you so re thank your ways as some day they might hunt you thinking just because you farmed something 100xs gives you the right to push others around being good at the game or being here since day 1 gives you no more power then someone just starting out

Nezyr_Jezz

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Nezyr_Jezz wrote: »

URGENT!! ZENIMAX TEACH PEOPLE HOW TO PLAY THE GAME.

I will speedrun the dungeons every time, as most of the things i need from them are hidden behind farming necessity. Im not here for a unique experience every time i want some boots or pants from a dungeon, and because PVP viable gear is tied to dungeons you can thank the devs for people that want to get over with it fast to resume their favoured activity which might not be related to yours. Same thing comes with 10 transmutation stones per random normal dungeon. Because those points are tied to 1 tun per character i will do everything in my power to reduce the time spent on daily necessary activity to give me more "free playtime".

Abovementioned title of the post is as selfish as my own approach. Efficiency doesn't mean being mean or selfish. It means cutting time consuming requirements to minimum to resume meaningfull activities.

If your searching for a unique RP experience maybe you should get same minded people on the daily playlist and excercise those dungeons/activities with them at your own pace. Expecting an experienced player to bow down your speed? Expecting those players bear hours upon hours of item farming only because drop system is ultimately flawed and require multitudes of runs to get a specific item hidden behind a randomness? Maybe instead ask yourself how much farming you have to do to get the gear to be competitive every 3 months when new expansion releases... answer is: a lot.

ask yourself this if we was in group would you go slow ? because you seem to think time played and CP means something i know well i have way more time in this then you so re thank your ways as some day they might hunt you thinking just because you farmed something 100xs gives you the right to push others around being good at the game or being here since day 1 gives you no more power then someone just starting out

I was CP 810 within a month and i started march 2020. Did most of the endgame PVE vet trial content including some hardcore achievements and focused on PVP which in this game require constant adjustment due to release schedule and unnecessary nerfs/bufs to already established and well rounded sets. On top of that the game experience is hidden behind a farm wall on almost any activity requiring you to do even hundreds of runs to drop a specific item for your build. If i would have an option to exclude queuing with full team (so i could queue solo) for random normal or/and exclude players lower than 810 cp from that queue or/and create a separate one for just 810s i would do so, but its impossible due to declining population and lack of game mechanics which now will not be introduced due to ownership transfers. Game also lacks transparency for new players which is discouraging by itself.

On top of that i probably ran more new players to 810cp and helped them build their first complete pve/pvp build than i can count with no real expectations other than a job well done and a potatoe medal. I will not however spend more time on activities that are forced on me than i have to and that concludes my slow dungeon runs. Don't worry tho. Usually im only taking about one random player to a 3man fixed team that i have, so the chances you will be "forced" to be carried in a speed run are gladly limited.

Nezyr_Jezz

KaGaOri wrote: »

The crazy thing is, that this speedrunning toxic BS wasn't a thing until recently. Have started with dungeons only after Greymoor hit. Didn't ever plan to (prefer playing solo), but ZOS hid mount parts in couple of them and after soloing BC1, then Volenfel three times (no drop) and finding out there's no way I solo BC2 at that point, decided to give group runs a shot. Yes, there were some bad apples even then, but it happened like 1 run in 20 and wasn't tolerated / endorsed by far as much. Generally ppl were fine with waiting on lowbies and if someone asked to pls wait, since they are doing quest, even those who went off fast at the start, usually did. Done all normals for skill point with pug groups and had to requeue only for maybe four of them?

Now 9 out of 10 groups have at least one selfish entitled person ignoring group, ignoring chat and obviously there only for the goodies. Since they have no fun running a dungeon, they make sure no one else has any fun either. The facts, that this person usually queued as tank or healer (since they are obviously special cookie entitled to get priority queue) without any ability or intention to fulfill that role for the group, doesn't help either. There's obvious shift in player mentality from "let's do it together" to "thx for getting me inside dungeon - now sayonara, suckers" and I don't like it. Given how many posts there are about the same problem lately, a lot of others doesn't like it either. We can do better, you guys!

This is the summary list of arguments that validate the speedrun players.

• Transmutation stones tied to normal random run
• PVE dungeons containing PVP viable gear
• 3month DLC release cycle which makes huge changes to meta, which also includes new sets introduction
• Collections added recently to the game require all the items to get the most beneficial creation cost reduction which is not linear.
• Great degree of disparity between players that is mainly associated with convoluted game mechanics, lack of stat transparency and lack of proper ingame guides that would help new players to accomodate to the game.
• Lack of 810 only queue

Your above statement is like expecting a python coder to get back to fortran only because you can't keep up...

NordSwordnBoard

Veteran 15 Crystals
Normal 10 Crystals

See if that diverts more of the vet players out of normal. I like the simple idea of the boss dropping the crystals, but zos wants to increase people grouping up, not discourage it with solo runs.

JanTanhide

I always vote to kick speed runners.

Nezyr_Jezz

JanTanhide wrote: »

I always vote to kick speed runners.

And i kick slackers

mairwen85

If I need the dungeon quest for a skill point, I'll solo it or ask for people to join me from guild(s).
If I want to quickly smash and grab a random, I'll queue it.
If I notice players < 50, I'll ask if anyone is questing, and wait for npc babble.
If a player says in chat they are questing, I'll wait for npc babble.

I don't understand why that's hard to comprehend.

Nordic__Knights

Nezyr_Jezz wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Nezyr_Jezz wrote: »

URGENT!! ZENIMAX TEACH PEOPLE HOW TO PLAY THE GAME.

I will speedrun the dungeons every time, as most of the things i need from them are hidden behind farming necessity. Im not here for a unique experience every time i want some boots or pants from a dungeon, and because PVP viable gear is tied to dungeons you can thank the devs for people that want to get over with it fast to resume their favoured activity which might not be related to yours. Same thing comes with 10 transmutation stones per random normal dungeon. Because those points are tied to 1 tun per character i will do everything in my power to reduce the time spent on daily necessary activity to give me more "free playtime".

Abovementioned title of the post is as selfish as my own approach. Efficiency doesn't mean being mean or selfish. It means cutting time consuming requirements to minimum to resume meaningfull activities.

If your searching for a unique RP experience maybe you should get same minded people on the daily playlist and excercise those dungeons/activities with them at your own pace. Expecting an experienced player to bow down your speed? Expecting those players bear hours upon hours of item farming only because drop system is ultimately flawed and require multitudes of runs to get a specific item hidden behind a randomness? Maybe instead ask yourself how much farming you have to do to get the gear to be competitive every 3 months when new expansion releases... answer is: a lot.

ask yourself this if we was in group would you go slow ? because you seem to think time played and CP means something i know well i have way more time in this then you so re thank your ways as some day they might hunt you thinking just because you farmed something 100xs gives you the right to push others around being good at the game or being here since day 1 gives you no more power then someone just starting out

I was CP 810 within a month and i started march 2020. Did most of the endgame PVE vet trial content including some hardcore achievements and focused on PVP which in this game require constant adjustment due to release schedule and unnecessary nerfs/bufs to already established and well rounded sets. On top of that the game experience is hidden behind a farm wall on almost any activity requiring you to do even hundreds of runs to drop a specific item for your build. If i would have an option to exclude queuing with full team (so i could queue solo) for random normal or/and exclude players lower than 810 cp from that queue or/and create a separate one for just 810s i would do so, but its impossible due to declining population and lack of game mechanics which now will not be introduced due to ownership transfers. Game also lacks transparency for new players which is discouraging by itself.

On top of that i probably ran more new players to 810cp and helped them build their first complete pve/pvp build than i can count with no real expectations other than a job well done and a potatoe medal. I will not however spend more time on activities that are forced on me than i have to and that concludes my slow dungeon runs. Don't worry tho. Usually im only taking about one random player to a 3man fixed team that i have, so the chances you will be "forced" to be carried in a speed run are gladly limited.

gg on doing that grind in 1 month this being my 2nd run at game im taking this one slow but my 1st account i had 4 VR16 toons before they removed VR ranks from game turning them into cp , oh and VR ranks wasnt shared you had to earn them per toon then taking it up to 1411cp gave me many of 100s of runs in all parts of the game , but still that gives no player the right to deman something out an other just because their new or old when you que up for something and need an extra player you should treat that player better not trash them just because their not part of your inside group that you run with , but then again you do you , just hope tables dont get turn on you and your the lone man out being treated like trash

Curious_Death

JanTanhide wrote: »

I always vote to kick speed runners.

i always get vote kick by some slacker but others re very satified doing dung in 10 min not 30 - coz they can start another one and and get TWO loots in same time as one ... but today ppl re soo CLOSE MINDED that never see that they can do two dungs in time of 1 + get free carry run ... if u want to make a dungeon run with making screenshoots and doing 5k dps per second i think u needs to setup a group for this ...

or even better ! guys ! make a guild

DUNGEON TOURIST !

where u gather turtles that wants to tour thru dungeon making screenshoots and killing monsters one by one !

u can even make contests ! for best dungeon "photos" and rewards !

Nezyr_Jezz

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

Veteran 15 Crystals
Normal 10 Crystals

See if that diverts more of the vet players out of normal. I like the simple idea of the boss dropping the crystals, but zos wants to increase people grouping up, not discourage it with solo runs.

You will never balance out the speed factor simply because there is too much disparity between new players and experienced ones. There is not "but"s or "if"s. The reality is people are tied to those dungeons on daily basis and its required of them to do them multiple times to achieve the goals. And that my friend is where the speed factor comes in. Its not only transmutes, its also gear, leads, skill points for your 10th alt and so forth. You simply can't expect experienced players to do the content slower only because you can't keep up. It's like asking people to drop faster cars because you have a Ford T.

Auora

Princess_Kassiopeia wrote: »

Call me up. I'll walk through any dungeon with you. I hate being left behind especially when Im gathering a few supplies
en-route and turn around and everyones gone OR 50% of the nasties are avoided leaving me to run straight into them and fight alone OR when I get to the group the gate closes and I'm not allowed in and no one resets to allow me into the fight and when the gate DOES open I dont get the rewards. . :P

I see many "vets" whining about new players.... but in my oppinion "vets" leave alot to be desired. Keeping the fun element would be a good starter.

So, call me up and I'll help you through.
30% of my game enjoyment is enjoying the surrounds and scenery; inspiring to the digital artists ingenuity of much of the architecture. Charging about only promotes boredom.

Hit me up too, I would *love* to find a group of others to actually find out the story of dungeons... and trials! Everyone just RUNS through trials and I know they have stories but... I have no idea what they are, since I'm never able to talk to NPCs or wait to listen to dialogue or read notes/books/etc.

svendf

KaGaOri wrote: »

The crazy thing is, that this speedrunning toxic BS wasn't a thing until recently. Have started with dungeons only after Greymoor hit. Didn't ever plan to (prefer playing solo), but ZOS hid mount parts in couple of them and after soloing BC1, then Volenfel three times (no drop) and finding out there's no way I solo BC2 at that point, decided to give group runs a shot. Yes, there were some bad apples even then, but it happened like 1 run in 20 and wasn't tolerated / endorsed by far as much. Generally ppl were fine with waiting on lowbies and if someone asked to pls wait, since they are doing quest, even those who went off fast at the start, usually did. Done all normals for skill point with pug groups and had to requeue only for maybe four of them?

Now 9 out of 10 groups have at least one selfish entitled person ignoring group, ignoring chat and obviously there only for the goodies. Since they have no fun running a dungeon, they make sure no one else has any fun either. The facts, that this person usually queued as tank or healer (since they are obviously special cookie entitled to get priority queue) without any ability or intention to fulfill that role for the group, doesn't help either. There's obvious shift in player mentality from "let's do it together" to "thx for getting me inside dungeon - now sayonara, suckers" and I don't like it. Given how many posts there are about the same problem lately, a lot of others doesn't like it either. We can do better, you guys!

This is actual my take on it as well. Back in the day´s I started out (six month or so after release on PS). Speedsters were few, player´s with MAW set blocking for tanks never happen. People tend to get toxi, when provoked by speedsters and fakes, who ignor you and gives you the middle finger.

People are not gettting toxic because they are toxic by nature. What I se and hear is they are getting provoked and it´s often older player´s, who pug and remember the old day´s, who to some degree is trying to put a fot down and make people understand what effect their playing style have on the run.

I do se alot more griefing in dungeons now a day´s than before and not sure why. It can be a combination of different reasons, but the fact is, it have gotten worse and have to stop.

I know one thing though after running these dungeons fore many, many, many hundred times. I´m still not speedrunning and don´t skip. It´s all about attitude, self discipline I believe

If you are a high end player with alot of dps running norm dungeons, it do require alot of self discipline not to intetrrupt people´s enjoyment of the run and a non selfish attitude-

Some people do run dungeons alot of time in a row to farm a set or part of. This do have an impact on thier playingstyle and an negative so. I do farm, but draw a line and let the gear come to to me, so to speak. There is nothing more important than enjoyment and farming a dungeon or a few dungeons heavy will harm that enjoyment in the end - have being there and done ii.

When things becomes boring it´s time to take a step back and ease up a bit. That´s why I´m still playing ESO and enjoy it.

If I end up in a dungeon with trolls, speedsters ot fakes I will tell them in plain words what I think of them. That´s not being toxic.

Doc45

I see it as an issue of common courtesy while understanding different players have different goals and each person has a right to play as they want. I see some of the posts as selfish, but that's my perspective, and it doesn't make the views of those I see as selfish less valid. In the end, the best bet is to run dungeons with fellow guild members when possible. That way you have a much better chance of entering the dungeon with players that have similar goals. If you're in a guild where you can't find like minded players, keep looking, and let your intentions be known when asking for a group if you want to hear every word the NPCs say.

From my experience having run every dungeon countless times over the last 4.5 years, most players are willing to slow down if asked at least to allow anyone needing the quest to complete it, and those that want to hear every word and expect the other three to wait as well as those that want to rush ahead and try to solo are outliers. The former can simply ask in guild chat for that experience while asking for a group. The latter can similarly group with like minded people in a guild or easily be kicked if you enter GF needing only one spot filled.

That's not to suggest those that want to race ahead don't have valid reasons for doing so, but I've found the time saved from someone running ahead is no more than a minute or two in most dungeons. And there are times doing so actually slows things down for longer than a minute or two when all or some of the group is locked out of an area as they are still showing in combat due to rushing past adds. When that happens those players tend to hear crickets when asking for people to join 'em in guilds so they lose more time.

Nezyr_Jezz

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Nezyr_Jezz wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Nezyr_Jezz wrote: »

URGENT!! ZENIMAX TEACH PEOPLE HOW TO PLAY THE GAME.

snip...
gg on doing that grind in 1 month this being my 2nd run at game im taking this one slow but my 1st account i had 4 VR16 toons before they removed VR ranks from game turning them into cp , oh and VR ranks wasnt shared you had to earn them per toon then taking it up to 1411cp gave me many of 100s of runs in all parts of the game , but still that gives no player the right to deman something out an other just because their new or old when you que up for something and need an extra player you should treat that player better not trash them just because their not part of your inside group that you run with , but then again you do you , just hope tables dont get turn on you and your the lone man out being treated like trash

If i want to experience the story im going for a 50/50 and going offline on my friend list and just enjoying the game as it is. that being said its nothing personal or trashy about wanting to be efficient in things i dont want to do but have to in order to be "competitive" in the game. In all fairness we are talking about random normals which gladly are soloable so if someone leaves i will still complete the run without a problem. And you can thank devs for tying daily rewards to group queue where its a pure randomness of characters and cp levels competing for a slot. In all fairness i have no need for lowbies in that queue either. And if you dont agree with the speed of the team you can always leave or get your premade team going with the people that are your pace. I tend to run in a full premade or close to, so it's not a big deal for me, but im far from telling experienced players what to do only because casual players are not up for it.

CaptainVenom

As a 1000+ CP, I really, REALLY hate dungeon speedrunning.

I'll be straight on this issue: I play ESO to enjoy it, and I can't enjoy it if I rush things. Everytime I'm called to the dungeon and people start speedrunning, I simply get annoyed and want to quit... sometimes I really do quit, and knowing that I'm the healer, good luck.

It's time people start thinking why they play ESO.

mairwen85

CaptainVenom wrote: »

As a 1000+ CP, I really, REALLY hate dungeon speedrunning.

I'll be straight on this issue: I play ESO to enjoy it, and I can't enjoy it if I rush things. Everytime I'm called to the dungeon and people start speedrunning, I simply get annoyed and want to quit... sometimes I really do quit, and knowing that I'm the healer, good luck.

It's time people start thinking why they play ESO.

For some people speed running is fun, though.

CaptainVenom

mairwen85 wrote: »

For some people speed running is fun, though.

They should try Need for Speed fanchise then... or speedrun away from me a least.

mairwen85

CaptainVenom wrote: »

mairwen85 wrote: »

For some people speed running is fun, though.

They should try Need for Speed fanchise then.

I'm just saying "fun" is subjective. Neither you nor I can dictate how anyone else experiences that or what they should do to experience it. On the other hand, we can suggest that people look for like-minds who share their sense of fun, as they're less likely to have their fun ruined. The beauty of a game like ESO is that it gives you all the tools needed to solve this problem. If you don't like how other people play, or other people doing x spoils your fun, you can make friends, join guilds, etc. If, on the other hand, you decide instead that everyone should only have fun in a way which you deem appropriate, you actually have no base of argument as you are disregarding the tools to ensure your experience in favour of continuing to experience your complaint. The same goes for everyone. Speed runners, scenery watchers, rpers, and so on. We all have the tools to play as we want and experience our own fun--but when we pug, we relinquish control over that; it's kind of an implied understanding of what a group of unknown players is.

---

Just to add to this, the number of people in this thread who are complaining about this could have spent less time to friend one another in-game. Even if you only play overland solo and just have "dungeon friends", that solves your issue. The crux being that people who run dungeons fast want it over with quickly and efficiently and have other things to do beyond that one thing, those who do them slower or at a different pace want something else out of it, and those expectations don't always marry up in a random grouping.

The real issue here isn't people running content fast/slow, it's whether people choose be social to the point of grouping, or rather being mindful of others needs vs their own. Literally the same point of contention in many, many real world situations too.

---

Just noticed your edit.

CaptainVenom wrote: »

mairwen85 wrote: »

For some people speed running is fun, though.

They should try Need for Speed fanchise then... or speedrun away from me a least.

The problem with this is, your complaint is that they are doing just that.

spartaxoxo

Personally, I see the fun argument as irrelevant because fun is subjective. I have known people who love speedier runs and given me plenty of compliments. And there's also lots of people in this thread who clearly hate it. Fun is not a good argument for either going slower or faster; because everyone has a different idea of fun.

I also consider griefing to be a completely separate issue. People who kill bosses they know team members need without team members present are griefing, imo, and should be kicked from group. It should also be a reportable offense. It's unacceptable behavior, period. And I am pro-speedrunning. Verbal abuse from people who want to go slow is also an issue, but that's also griefing. These people shouldn't be painted as representative of these two groups and are their own problem.

That out of the way let's look at what both sides miss out on when they get a typical, reasonable run.

First we have to define what is a reasonable run. To me that is that all parties present get to kill and loot every needed boss, and get their end of dungeon and quest rewards at the end. Afterall, rewards are the only objective purpose of dungeons.

Speed Runners having to slow down miss out on: time, dungeon rewards, and the abilty to keep up with the demands of high end content.

Slow but steady Pacers having to speed ip miss out on: loot, quest dialogue. (They may get to turn in the quest if they choose, but only if they skip dialogue let's be real).

Now even before transmute crystals were added to the random rewards, people weren't going to wait for you to read all the dialogue. Those usually required multiple runs to hear everything or soloing it. It's the reason that people have requested a story mode for years and years. So blaming that on speed runners seems questionable.


So I think the solution here is two-fold

Make the 10 crystals part of killing the last boss of any dungeon rather than requiring the group finder. By doing this, less people will bother with queuing for normals. And then make Vet Boss 15 crystals and vet HM boss 20 crystals. This makes it so that Vets aren't unfairly wasting their time and ability to compete with other vets on endgame content to slow down for every random person they meet by moving their incentive and ability to do this to content they can complete solo.

And introduce a solo mode for dungeons where the bosses have no mechanics that require two people to do. These shouldn't be harder than a public dungeon. And should give no dropped loot, but will reward the skillpoint for the quest.

If those two solutions were implemented, the random dungeon finder would get much better.

Jierdanit

CaptainVenom wrote: »

As a 1000+ CP, I really, REALLY hate dungeon speedrunning.

I'll be straight on this issue: I play ESO to enjoy it, and I can't enjoy it if I rush things. Everytime I'm called to the dungeon and people start speedrunning, I simply get annoyed and want to quit... sometimes I really do quit, and knowing that I'm the healer, good luck.

It's time people start thinking why they play ESO.

Well i am a PvP player. I do absolutely not enjoy doing normal dungeons, but sometimes im still going to do them because i either want to level or get gear for a build i might have fun with in PvP.
I hope you understand that while you might want to go slowly through a dungeon, do the quest and maybe even read the dialogue, I simply cba to take 30 min for a dungeon when i could just as well finish it in 15 just because someone has to be extra slow.

I dont mind ppl who want the quest rewards and im going to do the dungeon so that they get the rewards and not just rush past everything. But if you really want to read the whole story inside the dungeon, i would seriously advice you to get some guildmates or friends who want to do the same thing, because the average player you meet in GF dungeons will not want to wait 10+ min just for you to read all the quest dialogues / books, etc.

CaptainVenom

Jierdanit wrote: »

Well i am a PvP player. I do absolutely not enjoy doing normal dungeons, but sometimes im still going to do them because i either want to level or get gear for a build i might have fun with in PvP.
I hope you understand that while you might want to go slowly through a dungeon, do the quest and maybe even read the dialogue, I simply cba to take 30 min for a dungeon when i could just as well finish it in 15 just because someone has to be extra slow.

I dont mind ppl who want the quest rewards and im going to do the dungeon so that they get the rewards and not just rush past everything. But if you really want to read the whole story inside the dungeon, i would seriously advice you to get some guildmates or friends who want to do the same thing, because the average player you meet in GF dungeons will not want to wait 10+ min just for you to read all the quest dialogues / books, etc.

I understand what you're saying. Thing is: I don't stop to read/hear dialogue/texts. I know that takes a lot of time and when in group.

My problem's with people who can't even wait for me to simply pick the quest, look for chest/hs or even finish opening a chest. By the time I finish lockpicking my team is already dying because I'm the busy healer getting my chest. Some quests requires you to wait a NPC dialogue before I can interact with them (AKA Banished Cells I), but ppl can't simply wait, even when you say you're doing quest for your skillpoint. That is the point, and that's why I hate speedrunning.

hexnotic

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

caperb wrote: »

KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

Ellimist_Entreri wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

How about speed runners "git gud" and run vets instead and leave the normal dungeons to those who want a casual/learning/questing experience???

Now there's an idea

The problem really sounds to me like it's the transmute crystal rewards from the random that incentivizes this sort of behavior - if the veteran content provided a higher reward or the normal contents transmute reward was lowered it might help to push many of these users into the higher tier content.

Before that though it was the pledges. I stayed away from pledge dungeons because that is when you always get the people that are like " I have 5 more toons to do pledges on and only 2 hours before bedtime!" Making 2H weapons count as 2 slots for sets changed a lot of builds so that monster sets werent the default go to for meta builds. They are still used sometimes but not like they were. Though having a single mythic once again to offset the balance.

They should just stop with the pledge system or give it its own queue, that would remove some toxic people from the dungeon queue.

porblem is

Faiza wrote: »

This is pointless because we're talking about being cheated out of exp, time, and skill points and yet you keep hammering on about experiencing the story which is a deflection from the actual issue.

i think u would describe me as one of these speedrunners too.,..

if i wanna farm something i dont care for story etc but if someone say somethink like wait 10sec i cant sprint that fast i can totaly wait 10sec but often this wont happen normaly these ones who complain about are either 1. not even trying to come to the boss fast 2. wait a year for npcs 3. fight alone 1add/skipped boss (this happens very often in bc 1 or fg 1 (and if they wouldnt know the way i would explain it if they ask)) or 4. are reading the quest
if i would wait for all of these 4 points above i would so far only be able to do half the runs i did now

maybe some say something like i mensioned above but i ve never met one of these

That is the best part. The people that need a little bit more time to get to the boss in a dungeon always ignore you when you ask them about it (for example when you see their low level).

ive used the LFG system an lot having 6 , 780cp toons and 4 non cp toons on PC/NA and from what ive seen is if your on an high cp toon others seem to care if you want to do slower run for skill point/s , but if your lower cp or non cp they can careless what you say and just say get good you got time to re run it crybaby and kick you ,
same seems to be about being the speed runner ( sorry to all i might have done wrong in testing how players act ) , but on cp toons i can hit adds running nonone says anything , yet on an non cp toon tho killing just as fast (due to low lvl buffing + cp , and right crafted gear ) everyone (810cp players mostly) starts asking for hold up or something ageist speed running , yet if i dont hit adds running high lvl cp players do . Even had one where i got placed with one from last run i done (Them cp toon / Me non cp where they was for an speed run ) that once i was on the same ground as him both cp toons wasnt for speed run and cried to me for an hr after run on how much an d i was because i made him look bad killing faster them him no one can do that you must let ME be #1 always lol some players just cant help but want EVERYTHING to be about them and if they cant get it from an guild they get it by force in LFG its funny that one gets an ego boost out of an game to where being an good player means more then being an good person

not everyone is this way. i only care to check the pug’s CP if we are doing a v dlc, bc at that point i’m curious to how experienced they are. most of the players i’ve come across are not dirt bags, but the ones who are definitely sour the experience for everyone involved.

KaGaOri

mairwen85 wrote: »

CaptainVenom wrote: »

As a 1000+ CP, I really, REALLY hate dungeon speedrunning.

I'll be straight on this issue: I play ESO to enjoy it, and I can't enjoy it if I rush things. Everytime I'm called to the dungeon and people start speedrunning, I simply get annoyed and want to quit... sometimes I really do quit, and knowing that I'm the healer, good luck.

It's time people start thinking why they play ESO.

For some people speed running is fun, though.

It's fun only if you can keep up. If you're lvl 20 left stumbling through mobs speedrunner agroed and skipped, with no stamina left, possibly repeatedly dying, while they solo boss somewhere you can't get to, it's opposite of fun. Had been in lot of speedruns which I've loved, both normal and vet. The difference about those compared to what lot of us here complain about was, that everyone made sure, that everyone else is able to keep up and there was comunication - "let's skip here" "let's run through these" etc.

One of the best speedruns was vet City of Ash II, with group where no one spoke same language and yet no one ditched anyone and person who knew the skip road led us through, including spot where we all had to sneak up from lava pool to not agro mobs and another one where we had to mount up to get uphill on a bridge. We went "monkey see, monkey do" (the person in the know went out of their way to show us) and comunicated by smiley faces in chat. Must have skipped half of the dungeon (not the bosses, though) and got achievements for about everything at the end. It was quick, it was fun, everyone was happy at the end.

Now imagine the "leader" player ditching us because they're slightly faster than rest of us and no one else knows where to skip, finished majority, if not all bosses alone and rest of us had to requeue for the pledge since we wouldn't get credit for final boss. That would be ... not as fun imho. But hey - he'd just saved whole two minutes of his own time, so that's cool.

hafgood

No point increasing the transmute on vet, I can run two or three random normals in the time it takes to run one vet. Think I'll stick with the normals.

LashanW

CaptainVenom wrote: »

Some quests requires you to wait a NPC dialogue before I can interact with them (AKA Banished Cells I), but ppl can't simply wait, even when you say you're doing quest for your skillpoint. That is the point, and that's why I hate speedrunning.

That is a design flaw in base game dungeons, newer dungeons only require you to talk to npc at start and at the end of the dungeon, no waiting on npcs during the dungeon. Devs were smart enough to identify their design flaw and change it for future dungeons.

svendf wrote: »

Speedsters were few, player´s with MAW set blocking for tanks never happen.

Maw was updated to be the best performing single target monster set. Players had nothing to do with this decision. Can't blame players for using best performing items. Devs never did anything to change Maw's visual problems in group play no matter how many players complained. Thankfully Maw is no longer best.

As for the large increase of "speedsters" in normal dungeons lately, well there's a few reasons. PvP fellas already said their viewpoints. Let me add a few reasons from an endgame PvE standpoint.

• A fair amount of PvE endgamers used to get their transmute crystals from cyrodiil 30 day campaigns (myself included). We just went to cyro, typed LFG in chat and quickly got picked by a chill zerg (or healed some zerg without grouping) , in less than an hour we are eligible for 50 crystals at the end of the month per character and the process was quite fun for me personally, I'm not good at PvP but loved sieging/defending keeps with zergs against zergs. Devs made changes to cyrodiil and grouping now there's barely anybody picking up players and cyro feels like a place only for hardcore PvPer. And the performance in cyrodiil, jesus.
• Absurd RnG for drop rate of certain set items (mostly weapons) in dungeons, no system in place to account for extremely bad luck.
• Devs improved crystal sources from PvE but did it in a rather absurd manner. No such thing as higher the challenge/risk, higher the reward now. Crystal reward for weekly vet trial leaderboard is the same as a simple daily random normal dungeon .

"Speed runners" are maybe part of the blame, but a lot of these issues come from dev decisions and design flaws.

Jierdanit

CaptainVenom wrote: »

Jierdanit wrote: »

Well i am a PvP player. I do absolutely not enjoy doing normal dungeons, but sometimes im still going to do them because i either want to level or get gear for a build i might have fun with in PvP.
I hope you understand that while you might want to go slowly through a dungeon, do the quest and maybe even read the dialogue, I simply cba to take 30 min for a dungeon when i could just as well finish it in 15 just because someone has to be extra slow.

I dont mind ppl who want the quest rewards and im going to do the dungeon so that they get the rewards and not just rush past everything. But if you really want to read the whole story inside the dungeon, i would seriously advice you to get some guildmates or friends who want to do the same thing, because the average player you meet in GF dungeons will not want to wait 10+ min just for you to read all the quest dialogues / books, etc.

I understand what you're saying. Thing is: I don't stop to read/hear dialogue/texts. I know that takes a lot of time and when in group.

My problem's with people who can't even wait for me to simply pick the quest, look for chest/hs or even finish opening a chest. By the time I finish lockpicking my team is already dying because I'm the busy healer getting my chest. Some quests requires you to wait a NPC dialogue before I can interact with them (AKA Banished Cells I), but ppl can't simply wait, even when you say you're doing quest for your skillpoint. That is the point, and that's why I hate speedrunning.

That are not all speedrunners though
I think the usual player is going to wait for you if you tell them that you are doing the quest, though ofc there certainly are people who do not at all care about what the other group members want to do.

etchedpixels

hafgood wrote: »

No point increasing the transmute on vet, I can run two or three random normals in the time it takes to run one vet. Think I'll stick with the normals.

That's ok - you make it a maximum of one drop per account per day if need be. The question is merely what sized stick and carrot are required. Maybe 5 for normal 10 for dlc normal 15 for vet.