Urgent: Help new players pls zos, vets are speed running all normal dungeons 😣😣😣

EchoirVarsoj

That's why this game needs and LFG tool where one can advertise their forming group/raid or someone wanting to join a group would be able to post their preferences when looking for a group/raid.

It's feature already implemented on other popular MMOs out there.

NordSwordnBoard

Nezyr_Jezz wrote: »

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

Veteran 15 Crystals
Normal 10 Crystals

See if that diverts more of the vet players out of normal. I like the simple idea of the boss dropping the crystals, but zos wants to increase people grouping up, not discourage it with solo runs.

You will never balance out the speed factor simply because there is too much disparity between new players and experienced ones. There is not "but"s or "if"s. The reality is people are tied to those dungeons on daily basis and its required of them to do them multiple times to achieve the goals. And that my friend is where the speed factor comes in. Its not only transmutes, its also gear, leads, skill points for your 10th alt and so forth. You simply can't expect experienced players to do the content slower only because you can't keep up. It's like asking people to drop faster cars because you have a Ford T.

Did you quote the wrong person? Where did you get the assumption I can't keep up or I want slow runs? I don't, but I feel for the people who do. I've been helping new players I know from other games so I'm kind of seeing this from both sides.
I'm suggesting 2 vet base game dungeons equals the crystals from 3 normals.

Any good vet player can solo the normals for gear and leads can't be traded. If anybody is trying to speed level Undaunted skill line in normal they're doing it wrong. The same rewards for both (excluding the helmet) is what causes speed oriented vets to mix with newer players. I think the idea was to get vets to help inexperienced players, but it obviously causes more negativity than intended.
I'm suggesting that adjusting Crystal rewards will change the Most Efficient Tactic Available and divert some Vet farmers to Vet content. I've never had trouble doing the base game dungeons on vet almost as fast as the normal version anyway. You decide if 45 crystals for all 3 dailies on vet is worth the extra time spent vs 30 ASAP. Maybe have Vet DLC reward 20? Imagine 50/day for some effort versus 30 from face roll easiness.
As far as car analogies go, you're asking people to let your Mustang on the go cart track because its the fastest way to win the race. If you get a plastic trophy at the end instead of a gold one, you decide which division is more appropriate for your power level.
The rewards should be appropriate for the competition, and currently they are not disparate enough.

mairwen85

KaGaOri wrote: »

mairwen85 wrote: »

CaptainVenom wrote: »

As a 1000+ CP, I really, REALLY hate dungeon speedrunning.

I'll be straight on this issue: I play ESO to enjoy it, and I can't enjoy it if I rush things. Everytime I'm called to the dungeon and people start speedrunning, I simply get annoyed and want to quit... sometimes I really do quit, and knowing that I'm the healer, good luck.

It's time people start thinking why they play ESO.

For some people speed running is fun, though.

It's fun only if you can keep up. If you're lvl 20 left stumbling through mobs speedrunner agroed and skipped, with no stamina left, possibly repeatedly dying, while they solo boss somewhere you can't get to, it's opposite of fun. Had been in lot of speedruns which I've loved, both normal and vet. The difference about those compared to what lot of us here complain about was, that everyone made sure, that everyone else is able to keep up and there was comunication - "let's skip here" "let's run through these" etc.

One of the best speedruns was vet City of Ash II, with group where no one spoke same language and yet no one ditched anyone and person who knew the skip road led us through, including spot where we all had to sneak up from lava pool to not agro mobs and another one where we had to mount up to get uphill on a bridge. We went "monkey see, monkey do" (the person in the know went out of their way to show us) and comunicated by smiley faces in chat. Must have skipped half of the dungeon (not the bosses, though) and got achievements for about everything at the end. It was quick, it was fun, everyone was happy at the end.

Now imagine the "leader" player ditching us because they're slightly faster than rest of us and no one else knows where to skip, finished majority, if not all bosses alone and rest of us had to requeue for the pledge since we wouldn't get credit for final boss. That would be ... not as fun imho. But hey - he'd just saved whole two minutes of his own time, so that's cool.

As I said in a previous common sense post that people seem to ignore, the game gives you all the tools required to avoid that scenario and ensure you have the experience you want. When pugging, whatever side of the argument you're on, you relinquish that control. You get what you get, and ZOS can't enforce your enjoyment on others either. That you end up in a group of people with different expectations that may not marry up is pretty much what a group of unknown players means. You pug, you roll the dice. You call 3 friends or guild mates, you decide how it pans out.

The same is true for everyone in the game.

On a different note, enough people are commenting for both parties to friend up... Even if its just dungeon friends, no strings attached.

People are complaining out of a desire to prioritise their needs and experience, whilst chastising others for prioritising their own. ZOS don't need to fix this, they've given us the tools to avoid it. Choosing not to use them invalidates the argument. Bottom line, pugging is random.

svendf

LashanW wrote: »

CaptainVenom wrote: »

Some quests requires you to wait a NPC dialogue before I can interact with them (AKA Banished Cells I), but ppl can't simply wait, even when you say you're doing quest for your skillpoint. That is the point, and that's why I hate speedrunning.

That is a design flaw in base game dungeons, newer dungeons only require you to talk to npc at start and at the end of the dungeon, no waiting on npcs during the dungeon. Devs were smart enough to identify their design flaw and change it for future dungeons.

svendf wrote: »

Speedsters were few, player´s with MAW set blocking for tanks never happen.

Maw was updated to be the best performing single target monster set. Players had nothing to do with this decision. Can't blame players for using best performing items. Devs never did anything to change Maw's visual problems in group play no matter how many players complained. Thankfully Maw is no longer best.

As for the large increase of "speedsters" in normal dungeons lately, well there's a few reasons. PvP fellas already said their viewpoints. Let me add a few reasons from an endgame PvE standpoint.

• A fair amount of PvE endgamers used to get their transmute crystals from cyrodiil 30 day campaigns (myself included). We just went to cyro, typed LFG in chat and quickly got picked by a chill zerg (or healed some zerg without grouping) , in less than an hour we are eligible for 50 crystals at the end of the month per character and the process was quite fun for me personally, I'm not good at PvP but loved sieging/defending keeps with zergs against zergs. Devs made changes to cyrodiil and grouping now there's barely anybody picking up players and cyro feels like a place only for hardcore PvPer. And the performance in cyrodiil, jesus.
• Absurd RnG for drop rate of certain set items (mostly weapons) in dungeons, no system in place to account for extremely bad luck.
• Devs improved crystal sources from PvE but did it in a rather absurd manner. No such thing as higher the challenge/risk, higher the reward now. Crystal reward for weekly vet trial leaderboard is the same as a simple daily random normal dungeon .

"Speed runners" are maybe part of the blame, but a lot of these issues come from dev decisions and design flaws.

I´m a cp 1400+ and can run normals without being a speedsters or skip for that matter. People are responseble for their actions not zos. Many of us have the MAV set and don´t use it in dungeons for a reason.

Regarding Cyro. I haven´t use Cyro that much only for Warhorn and other skills like vigor so can´t comment on it, but do believe it could cause issues as you mention - believe you are right there.

Elvenheart

phileunderx2 wrote: »

ZOS get rid of randoms giving the most crystals.
We should get 10 on the competition of our first dungeon of the day no matter the mode.

Amen! This very easy step would solve almost everything!

Anotherone773

Jierdanit wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

Pevey wrote: »

It’s clear from some of the posts in this thread that some people’s definition of a speed run is anything where you can’t read all the quest dialogue. I think that is pretty extreme. You will be hard pressed to find 3 other people in the game who want to go that slow. That said, I have done it before because a guild-mate asked. They wanted to get all the lore books, etc, for a new dungeon and take their time. You will not find people willing to go below “normal” pace in the group finder. Normal is generally not sprinting to the last boss, but definitely burning through everything ASAP.

100% disagree and strongly disagree with the bolded part. I have been in loads of normal DF groups in which we went at a slower pace for quests. We have stopped to explain boss mechanics even if no one has asked, we even spend time socializing at times. I once spent 2 hours running white gold tower because the newbies struggled with mechanics. Some of the best tanks i have ever played with in this game have stopped and waited for new players and while we were waiting for the new player, he was tossing out tips and such almost all of which i already knew but the other person seemed to only know some of it.

Reward driven players say things like " normal is not sprinting but burning through everything ASAP. " These players cannot comprehend why you would want to take longer than absolutely necessary to do content. They then get annoyed when people take their time to do content.

Fun driven players don't care about hurrying up to get the reward, or being fast or the best. The journey is what they care about. A majority of players, not only in dungeons, but the game are fun driven, not reward driven.

The problem is that i really absolutely do not care about fun when doing a normal dungeon since i pretty much only do them to grind a specific gear set or get some fast XP.

So obviously im am trying to get through them as fast as possible, because i either want to waste as little time from my XP scroll as possible or have already done that same dungeon 5+ times earlier that day and dont want to waste any more time with it but just want to be done with it ASAP. (even though i will pretty much always wait when someone says he needs quest in chat).

So you are reward driven, which is fine. You should be doing the dungeon with other reward driven players because they will also care about how efficient they are at getting to the reward. So you would all benefit each other as your goals align. Stick a newbie in there or someone that just wants to have a relaxing stroll through the dungeon and they are going to slow you down and you are not going to make the experience pleasant for them.

This is why there needs to be two queues one for reward driven players that care about the destination not the journey and one for fun players that care about the journey. Then everyone can run the dungeon with a like minded group.

LashanW

svendf wrote: »

I´m a cp 1400+ and can run normals without being a speedsters or skip for that matter. People are responseble for their actions not zos.

Both parties are responsible imo. I know people who farmed base game dungeons 50+ times to get 1 staff and it just doesn't drop, I don't blame them for being impatient the next time they try the dungeon. I didn't even mention the leads because I'm not familiar with antiquity system.

Besides I'm not justifying anybody, just stating some possible reasons for why "speedsters" have increased in normal dungeons lately. Lot of reasons lead to that. And quite a few of them were thanks to the changes made to the game.

Anotherone773

Titansteele wrote: »

The problem here, as I see it is the slower runners are in a minority as the lifespan for the majority of slow runners is short.

The reasons why the majority approach these dungeons will become valid for those who are currently in the "slow" camp within a short period of time.
There are exceptions to this statement, I acknowledge that but they are not large in numbers.

It has been mentioned in this thread already but in my opinion the resolution to this is for people to join a likeminded guild. We have many vet players but anytime a member says "I am on the Quest" or "Can I see the story" we have gone at whatever pace suited. If you are on PC-EU and want an invite let me know.

That's not true at all. You are just making assumptions. Also there are a lot of people that you would call " slow runners" that refuse to do dungeons at all or rarely because of how toxic they are and they hate feeling like they have to sprint through them just to catch up.

I have been in many groups that do dungeons at slow to normal place. Usually its 1 person in my groups that tries to speed run ahead, pulls all the trash and either almost dies or the trash returns to their position only to swamp the guy that is furthest behind and he has to ghost run through it and miss out on a boss. That happens a lot. The only reason the two in the middle of the pack are going faster is they are trying to keep up with MR Blitz.

svendf

LashanW wrote: »

svendf wrote: »

I´m a cp 1400+ and can run normals without being a speedsters or skip for that matter. People are responseble for their actions not zos.

Both parties are responsible imo. I know people who farmed base game dungeons 50+ times to get 1 staff and it just doesn't drop, I don't blame them for being impatient the next time they try the dungeon. I didn't even mention the leads because I'm not familiar with antiquity system.

Besides I'm not justifying anybody, just stating some possible reasons for why "speedsters" have increased in normal dungeons lately. Lot of reasons lead to that. And quite a few of them were thanks to the changes made to the game.

I remember when I farmed the Undaunted Infill lightning staff in the ARX dungeon and it was a nightmare, as well to many others , but after a few month I got two - lucky me.

As end gamer/ trial score runner or progression group it´s different as you need some gear you are asked to require. For that yo have trial/ guild mates to help you out - I had. Regarding dungeons I never ran them as pugs only with guild mates as we had same goals.

Today away from all that except for some trials here and there to keep up in a comfi pace. There are so much out there you can craft, which will kick A... or even combined with overland, which will give you alot of power.

What I wanna to point out is many are not forced to or being asked to require gear. Many of those we group with in many pugs are not endgamers as in scorerunners and therefore don´need to. I believe it´s more about preasure from mates or guildies (hey you need this and that).

What some need to understand is, what you are after you will get somehow - it will come to you. There is no need to speed dungeons and make other´s suffer.

Maybe I´m lucky because I have a few year´s on my back and have alot of gear, which I don´t use lol.

Some believe the grass is more green on the other side. It´s not alway´s the case. Aall you need is there to craft really or buy - no reason to rush it will all arrive in time

caperb

Anotherone773 wrote: »

Titansteele wrote: »

The problem here, as I see it is the slower runners are in a minority as the lifespan for the majority of slow runners is short.

The reasons why the majority approach these dungeons will become valid for those who are currently in the "slow" camp within a short period of time.
There are exceptions to this statement, I acknowledge that but they are not large in numbers.

It has been mentioned in this thread already but in my opinion the resolution to this is for people to join a likeminded guild. We have many vet players but anytime a member says "I am on the Quest" or "Can I see the story" we have gone at whatever pace suited. If you are on PC-EU and want an invite let me know.

That's not true at all. You are just making assumptions. Also there are a lot of people that you would call " slow runners" that refuse to do dungeons at all or rarely because of how toxic they are and they hate feeling like they have to sprint through them just to catch up.

I have been in many groups that do dungeons at slow to normal place. Usually its 1 person in my groups that tries to speed run ahead, pulls all the trash and either almost dies or the trash returns to their position only to swamp the guy that is furthest behind and he has to ghost run through it and miss out on a boss. That happens a lot. The only reason the two in the middle of the pack are going faster is they are trying to keep up with MR Blitz.

He is right though.

Rudrani

yeah, i think it is very lame for ZoS to put 10 crystals on random normals. Now everyone wants to speed run MORE THAN EVER.

I do want 10 crystals, but not from random fungal grotto.

Give me like 2 crystals from random normal, 10 from random vet
give me 5 for normal pledge, 10 for vet pledge +5 for hardmode, 15 for dlc vet +10 for hardmode.

That will be FUN, and cure some of the insane random normal farming.

Grianasteri

I recall vividly experiencing this very problem when I was still low and mid level CP. It was infuriating. And for that reason, I NEVER run ahead and steam role the dungeon, even though I long ago reached max CP and am currently working my way through the vet dungeons solo.

I wait at each add pull or boss, until the whole group is ready, especially if I note that team mates are low level.

Personally, I find carrying and/or helping low level players really rewarding and satisfying.

svendf

Rudrani wrote: »

yeah, i think it is very lame for ZoS to put 10 crystals on random normals. Now everyone wants to speed run MORE THAN EVER.

I do want 10 crystals, but not from random fungal grotto.

Give me like 2 crystals from random normal, 10 from random vet
give me 5 for normal pledge, 10 for vet pledge +5 for hardmode, 15 for dlc vet +10 for hardmode.

That will be FUN, and cure some of the insane random normal farming.

There is no reason to change the 10 crystals gained in norm. People, who run normal have as much use for them as a vet runner have. If you lower the 10 crystals in normal you will get people in vet, who don´t belong there. I would say keep it as is or raise to 15 crystals in vet.

It doesn´t matter where you get the crystals from, it can be fungal 1 or nDOM the crystals are your´s. What matters is how you behave in those dungeons. Don´t punish player´s that behave and have a very good and delicate playingstyle, whitch result in very good and painless runs, without being a speedster.

There are a few rutten ones running around on all platforms. Don´t let them ruin it.

hamgatan

Sarannah wrote: »

And yes, this is an urgent matter. As more and more new players(and existing players) are running into this issue. Ruining their gaming experience. In turn causing them to quit, and leaving the game because they want to play for fun. Solo speedrunners and other types of groupdisfunctioning playertypes should be dealt with, as they do not belong in an MMO game. Despite of what excuse(s) they tell themselves, they are just selfish.

you're new to MMO's i see. we have been speed running for YEARS. don't tell us how to play the game, and that we should play it your way - when we have been here since the beginning - paying our sub, since day one in 2014..sinking hundreds, perhaps thousands into ZOS's pockets. this is like someone moving to some suburb under an airport flight path, and then complaining to the authorities about the flight noise. you're sounding like a Karen..

i get what you're saying - you want to do content and read the story, and all that stuff - that's what normal is for. you want to play it your way great, do so. its your first time in a dungeon? awesome. well for us its probably our 4000th+ time in that same dungeon - we are endgame players. this is what we do at endgame. we farm our transmutes and don't waste time that we don't have to. you're saying we're crippling your gameplay experience - but actually you're crippling ours, which is equally selfish.

however in the spirit of fairness, there is a fix to this where everyone can win.

1. Split the random group finder queues. Sub 300CP instance. Over 300CP instance. A 300CP buffer after reaching Level 50 is MORE than enough time to go through, do your story content, play your way through the game at an easier pace. Veterans will be locked out of this mode anyway due to CP restrictions.. so for us endgame speed runners, we wouldn't be interfering with your story mode. By this stage no vet will actually be wanting to bore themselves over content anyway - they're farming transmutes and helms for endgame content and preparing for vTrials.

2. DPS cap the over 300CP runs. This would work if you had a free trial atronach in each major city (instanced behind a door, call the room a 'training hall' or something). Yes okay that would infuriate everyone who spent a fortune getting trial atro's for their homes, me included - BUT, i would swallow my pride on that because it would have the following advantage.

i. DPS must hit a minimum 30K Parse in order to be able to join the over 300CP random group finder. This should be locked behind an achievement. Do a parse, you hit 30K, you get the achieve. The achieve is the golden ticket into over 300CP runs. No achieve, you're stuck in sub 300CP jail. 30K is easy. Helen Keller could hit 30K.
ii. Come up with some other tests for supports - i.e. HPS check on 'friendly' target dummies that have a DoT applied to them for healers? Etc. There are ways. Say a minimum 2K HPS. Then an achievement. Doesn't have to be about uptimes but things like a taunt test for tanks would be good.
iii. You would need to qualify for each role in order to be able to queue up as that - much like crafting certification!

It is a massive bugbear of vets, that doing random normals with pugs is torture because of low DPS or poor supports. Case in point one vBCII i did the other night, I was tanking 15 Daedroths by the time we wiped on a total group DPS of 12K. I was doing 5K of that as the tank. There should be suitable qualification required in order to be at this 300CP+ level and having that Achievement gateway in between will appease vets who just want to get on with it but are carrying low level players repeatedly.

3. Have a guild rank system in the guild finder based on player CP. Filter those guilds with a minimum CP requirement. If you are under CP160, only show guilds that accept members from that CP range (guild sets its own minimum CP to join, but player can indefinitely stay a guildie until they leave or are booted). This would ensure that the guilds you are joining are filled with players of the same level/capabilities as you and you are more likely to find players to do the content you want to do with. Your Guild is what is core in a MMO. Its your guild essentially what can keep you in the MMO.. not the game itself.

4. Much like Alliance War locking, lock a specific character to a specific role in 4 Man Dungeons over 300CP. I don't think this would irritate any vet honestly. Most of us have 12+ characters and will only play the one role on each character anyway. If you are a Tank, that char chooses its tank role, gets locked to that role for a period of 30 days or something. Due to the myriad of different combinations of gear/sets you couldn't lock this to having only certain abilities/gear slotted.. that just wouldn't work. I mean we have medium armor tanks, we have dual Ice Staff warden tanks, we have all sorts of combinations. So - Undaunted Lock it. There of course is one problem with this - faketanking/fakehealing. So if a player undaunted locks their character to a tank role, but is actually a DPS, there's not really a way to penalize this. Therefore needs more thought on how to fix that issue.

personally - i have 14 chars. and that's just on PC. imagine doing 14 x random normals. 14 x random battlegrounds, 14 x daily crafting writs... the list goes on. This is why we are speed running. you'll understand when you get to where we are.

mairwen85

Sarannah wrote: »

this is an urgent matter. As more and more new players(and existing players) are running into this issue. Ruining their gaming experience. In turn causing them to quit, and leaving the game because they want to play for fun.

I'd like to see the metrics on that

However, that "fun" element you speak of (speed running is fun for some, taking your time fun for others) is preserved by using the tools provided by ZOS already. Queueing with friends or guild mates, problem solved. What you see as a problem, is actually a complaint about random people in a group (pug); people with different expectations--you want ZOS to prioritize your needs over theirs, when you have everything you need to do that yourself. You also want to punish those people for prioritizing their needs over yours by demanding ZOS prioritize yours... see, when you boil it down and strip off the fluff, on either side of the argument, we come out at the same point, people who believe their needs trump other people's. Truth is, this is not urgent, as IDK says, you have all the tools to ensure your needs, but when you pug, you forgo that; you effectively moot your own complaint by choosing it over what you actually want.

p00tx

Easy solution: Make random vets give 12-15 transmutes. We'd never willingly suffer through a random normal pug again and you guys could have the normals all to yourselves.

Just a heads up, it's a pretty miserable experience for us too. We have to deal with players (who are usually only doing 5-10% of the group dps between them) who not only don't know the mechanics, but will often do things that end up making the fight harder for those of us who are doing the actual dps in the group. Or they immediately die, get rezzed, die again, repeat 4 times until we give up rezzing them and just finish the fight without them, then get to read the torrent of angry text from them in HUD chat for finally leaving them on the ground. All this for a measly 10 transmutes. Sometimes it just doesn't feel worth it.

KhajiitLivesMatter

p00tx wrote: »

Easy solution: Make random vets give 12-15 transmutes. We'd never willingly suffer through a random normal pug again and you guys could have the normals all to yourselves.

Just a heads up, it's a pretty miserable experience for us too. We have to deal with players (who are usually only doing 5-10% of the group dps between them) who not only don't know the mechanics, but will often do things that end up making the fight harder for those of us who are doing the actual dps in the group. Or they immediately die, get rezzed, die again, repeat 4 times until we give up rezzing them and just finish the fight without them, then get to read the torrent of angry text from them in HUD chat for finally leaving them on the ground. All this for a measly 10 transmutes. Sometimes it just doesn't feel worth it.

12-15 wouldnt be enought
expecilly if u have to do VET with RANDOMS imagine getting something like scallcaller and ur the only one who knows the mechanics ....

and even with easy vets normal dungons are 3x faster so the reward for vet should atleast be 3x higher

Faiza

KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »

p00tx wrote: »

Easy solution: Make random vets give 12-15 transmutes. We'd never willingly suffer through a random normal pug again and you guys could have the normals all to yourselves.

Just a heads up, it's a pretty miserable experience for us too. We have to deal with players (who are usually only doing 5-10% of the group dps between them) who not only don't know the mechanics, but will often do things that end up making the fight harder for those of us who are doing the actual dps in the group. Or they immediately die, get rezzed, die again, repeat 4 times until we give up rezzing them and just finish the fight without them, then get to read the torrent of angry text from them in HUD chat for finally leaving them on the ground. All this for a measly 10 transmutes. Sometimes it just doesn't feel worth it.

12-15 wouldnt be enought
expecilly if u have to do VET with RANDOMS imagine getting something like scallcaller and ur the only one who knows the mechanics ....

and even with easy vets normal dungons are 3x faster so the reward for vet should atleast be 3x higher

Which is exactly why the solution isn't to raise the amount of crystals for vet, it's to remove the crystals from the normal GF reward entirely. If the crystals become a drop from the last boss, like the undaunted rewards were, then these players who are too good to cooperate with players whose performance they feel is beneath them don't need to queue at all. Then they can solo FG1 for their crystals and instead of terrorizing the random GF queue.

NordSwordnBoard

p00tx wrote: »

Easy solution: Make random vets give 12-15 transmutes. We'd never willingly suffer through a random normal pug again and you guys could have the normals all to yourselves.

Just a heads up, it's a pretty miserable experience for us too. We have to deal with players (who are usually only doing 5-10% of the group dps between them) who not only don't know the mechanics, but will often do things that end up making the fight harder for those of us who are doing the actual dps in the group. Or they immediately die, get rezzed, die again, repeat 4 times until we give up rezzing them and just finish the fight without them, then get to read the torrent of angry text from them in HUD chat for finally leaving them on the ground. All this for a measly 10 transmutes. Sometimes it just doesn't feel worth it.

This.

You will motivate people with rewards much better than with penalties. If the co-mingling of players isn't having a positive result, just adjust the carrot on the stick that puts them there in the first place. They aren't handing out perfected gear on normal, are they?

hafgood

No.

Do not move the crystals to vet only. Why not? Because players who do not want to do vet dungeons do want crystals as well.

Why should they be excluded?

That doesn't feel fair to me

mairwen85

hafgood wrote: »

No.

Do not move the crystals to vet only. Why not? Because players who do not want to do vet dungeons do want crystals as well.

Why should they be excluded?

That doesn't feel fair to me

Because people can be narrow minded and don't properly consider the impact beyond their own little space.

KaGaOri

p00tx wrote: »

Easy solution: Make random vets give 12-15 transmutes. We'd never willingly suffer through a random normal pug again and you guys could have the normals all to yourselves.

Just a heads up, it's a pretty miserable experience for us too. We have to deal with players (who are usually only doing 5-10% of the group dps between them) who not only don't know the mechanics, but will often do things that end up making the fight harder for those of us who are doing the actual dps in the group. Or they immediately die, get rezzed, die again, repeat 4 times until we give up rezzing them and just finish the fight without them, then get to read the torrent of angry text from them in HUD chat for finally leaving them on the ground. All this for a measly 10 transmutes. Sometimes it just doesn't feel worth it.

The random queue is random - you can get long and / or hard DLC, like Lair of Maarselok, Scalecaller peak, etc., where everyone is at least lvl 45 and should be able to look after themselves. Or you can get Fungal Grotto 1, which is short and easy, but with high risk there will be lvl 10 players, stumbling over their feet and still figguring out they really should not stand in red. Just imagine that instead of having to wait 10 sec for quest npc to show up and rez couple times, you could be barely half way through Unhallowed grave by the time the run with beginner on board is finished. Fair trade-off, as far as I see it.

Are runs where everyone is high level and knows what their doing easier and faster? Yes, they are. The lowbies have to learn the very basics somewhere, though. If put into low tier dungeon with bunch of low level toons as a high CP player I don't see it as them encroaching on my playing-field, but me coming into theirs. Will I be the one dooing most damage - yes (it would be odd if I couldn't at 780 CP vs. lvl 10 - 20). Will they make mistakes and die - also yes (especially if there isn't real healer - lowbies still need healing in normals). Still shouldn't be excuse to ditch the group and run to the end alone, to reap the rewards only for myself (and cheat three other people of theirs). Just show bit of empathy, people - you were all beginners once!

hafgood

Which can be said of speed runners and questers. There is no solution that will suit everyone, we all need to face facts and accept that

Anotherone773

hafgood wrote: »

Which can be said of speed runners and questers. There is no solution that will suit everyone, we all need to face facts and accept that

There is a solution that fits everyone, i came up with it. Everyone gets something they want and it have little to no negatives for any other group. Most people don't want solutions to their problems, they just want to complain about them.

mairwen85

Anotherone773 wrote: »

hafgood wrote: »

Which can be said of speed runners and questers. There is no solution that will suit everyone, we all need to face facts and accept that

There is a solution that fits everyone, i came up with it. Everyone gets something they want and it have little to no negatives for any other group. Most people don't want solutions to their problems, they just want to complain about them.

But the solution already exist. Don't pug. That's literally it, and it works for everyone.

If you want to control who enters your group and how they play, don't pug. If you don't care about that, do pug.

hafgood

Anotherone773 wrote: »

There is a solution that fits everyone, i came up with it. Everyone gets something they want and it have little to no negatives for any other group. Most people don't want solutions to their problems, they just want to complain about them.

Except, as been explained many times by many people, your solution does not fit everyone, its as open to abuse as any other solution. Sorry but if people want to take their time in dungeons the best solution is for them to go into the dungeon in a premade group. I allow agree that that is the best solution for speed runners

PUG at your peril, you get what you get and all players in the group have to accept that not all of their needs will be met, unless one of the members is a skilled cat herder...

LashanW

Anotherone773 wrote: »

There is a solution that fits everyone, i came up with it. Everyone gets something they want and it have little to no negatives for any other group. Most people don't want solutions to their problems, they just want to complain about them.

Your solution will increase queue time and may potentially reduce success rate of some difficult dungeons (such as moon hunter keep). ZoS don't like to split queues I think, they said something like that for battlegrounds.

mairwen85

hafgood wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

There is a solution that fits everyone, i came up with it. Everyone gets something they want and it have little to no negatives for any other group. Most people don't want solutions to their problems, they just want to complain about them.

Except, as been explained many times by many people, your solution does not fit everyone, its as open to abuse as any other solution. Sorry but if people want to take their time in dungeons the best solution is for them to go into the dungeon in a premade group. I allow agree that that is the best solution for speed runners

PUG at your peril, you get what you get and all players in the group have to accept that not all of their needs will be met, unless one of the members is a skilled cat herder...

Exactly. There is no need to invent solutions to problems that only exist when people choose to create them.

Recent

hafgood wrote: »

I'm sick amd tired of these discussions. I really am, the ones who want to do dungeons at their own slow pace never ever seem to like the suggestion that they actually form a group before using the group finder because it seems its their right to run a dungeon at whatever pace they want.

I'm not condoning the speed runners but who can really blame them? Doing a random for 10 crystals on multiple characters takes time. As such they want to do each run quickly.

The solution? Accept that when you PUG you have a good chance of getting a speed freak.

I rarely PUG, I generally do premades, on the rare occasion we can only get 3 together we make sure the randoms needs are met, if they want to do the quest they do the quest.

But don't expect to take all night with it.

I respect your answer thank you i see your reasoning behind your reply. I apologise for complaining and i do see this from a new perspective now thank you

moo_2021

I never realized there is a group finder!

We could use a lot more in-game information in ESO, especially for players who come from Skyrim and never played MMO before. Most of time I don't have a clue about very basic things until someone in guild mentioned it.