Urgent: Help new players pls zos, vets are speed running all normal dungeons 😣😣😣

Recent

@ZOS_RichLambert I beg you to please change how dungeons work. Please offer a system where new beginner players can go through a dungeon at a normal pace, not running behind a vet player who can solo the dungeon. Every guild I have joined trying to find one that remembers what it was like to be a new player does the same thing....flex and speed leaving their newbie guild mates behind. There's no hope anymore...ive joined more guilds than i can say here looking for that one that will offer slower dungeons but nothing.

Ive discussed this issue with guild officers and guild masters and they say it's because they have run dungeons 50 times or more so they just want to get their transmute crystals and leave. But new players dont want to be dragged through dungeons like a ball and chain or be left so far behind that they miss out on looting final dungeon boss, especially with magicka players that run slower.

I get that vet players want their crystals but if zos can offer another way to get them then dungeons can go back to how they were intended to be played....I have 2 eso accounts which i pay for so i love eso more than any game and yes i have lots of 810 cp characters .....I still care about new beginner players and i have a new account and when i play my lowbies i get to see how unbalanced and unfair the game feels...how frustrating it is to not get to experience this dungeons , read books, finish quests ....

The only way is to get to vet and solo them which i can now do myself but it makes me mad and sad that this is the way.....zos you will lose new players when they become discouraged and frustrated in the earlier stages.

Even normal trials are now called ' fun runs'.... To quote my ex guildies " Normals are ezy ...too ezy...you dont even need to know what to do...just the tank needs to know what to do" .....

Then you go into a guild trial with vets in vet gear all drunk and being silly and flexing.....i prefer to pug in craglorn than do trials with these flexing drunk clowns...
I am here for the new beginner players that have expressed their frustrations in many guilds. Guilds that call
themselves beginner friendly...🤔😣

Faiza

I agree that something needs to be changed to deter olympic sprinters in dungeons

But it also sounds like you need new guilds

Faiza

I feel like if the bonus from Ring of the Wild Hunt was disabled in dungeons it would much harder to lock lower level/lower cp and new players out of bosses and the dungeon completion.

Recent

Faiza wrote: »

I agree that something needs to be changed to deter olympic sprinters in dungeons

But it also sounds like you need new guilds

Thank you for your reply...i left many guilds, non ive been in offer a reasonable dungeon experience i prefer to pug...at least then i sometimes get extremely lucky and get a group that dont speed or crawl either just move at a nice pace.

Like i said above i have 2 accou ts one vet one with lowbies i like to get on and enjoy being new again. I care a lot about new players they are the future of this game. I dont want them to think speed running is the right way.

Sarannah

ZOS should have addressed the fake roles situation a long time ago. This situation is only getting worse(expanding with speedrunners), and it getting worse was only a question of time. Since nothing is done to stop those types of players. My guess is, that pretty soon players like that will find yet another way to screw over regular players.

Just place heavy restrictions on roles to stop fake roles. Besides that: Do not allow bossfights to be skipped, and do not allow bossfights to start with less than 3 players in the boss arena. Speedrunner problem solved.

Faiza

Sarannah wrote: »

ZOS should have addressed the fake roles situation a long time ago. This situation is only getting worse(expanding with speedrunners), and it getting worse was only a question of time. Since nothing is done to stop those types of players. My guess is, that pretty soon players like that will find yet another way to screw over regular players.

Just place heavy restrictions on roles to stop fake roles. Besides that: Do not allow bossfights to be skipped, and do not allow bossfights to start with less than 3 players in the boss arena. Speedrunner problem solved.

Well, some bosses will teleport you into the boss fight if your group starts it without you, but it doesn't seem to work all the time and it happens in very few dungeons (I think Icereach is the only one I can recall atm).

In Neverwinter, all of the group players have to be present in on a flag outside the boss fight before everyone is allowed to enter, so that way someone max level can't queue for a bonus and leave lower level players behind.

nukk3r

How long does one plan to stay a "beginner"? All the beginners I've met were eager to jump into end game ASAP. They constantly asked "when I'm allowed to do this? when I'm allowed to do that?". I completed DLC hardmodes with a guy who was just a month into the game. We carried him through normal content for XP and he learned to play in vet, where you actually encounter the mechanics. IMO it has nothing to do with being a beginner, just the will to learn how to play the game in a most efficient way.

Faiza

nukk3r wrote: »

How long does one plan to stay a "beginner"? All the beginners I've met were eager to jump into end game ASAP. They constantly asked "when I'm allowed to do this? when I'm allowed to do that?". I completed DLC hardmodes with a guy who was just a month into the game. We carried him through normal content for XP and he learned to play in vet, where you actually encounter the mechanics. IMO it has nothing to do with being a beginner, just the will to learn how to play the game in a most efficient way.

Do you have any idea how many new players ESO gets in a month, a week or a day? How many people only log on once a week, or once a month? What the average ability of players are?

Also, not everyone has the same ideas about efficiency as you - speed isn't everything. I've said this before in these threads, it's absurd that you all want to blow through these dungeons as fast as possible, ignoring everything and skipping bosses, then are shocked when randoms are max CP or queue into veteran and don't know the mechanics, and think it's normal to just be able to run through them when it isn't.

Jeremy

Recent wrote: »

@ZOS_RichLambert I beg you to please change how dungeons work. Please offer a system where new beginner players can go through a dungeon at a normal pace, not running behind a vet player who can solo the dungeon. Every guild I have joined trying to find one that remembers what it was like to be a new player does the same thing....flex and speed leaving their newbie guild mates behind. There's no hope anymore...ive joined more guilds than i can say here looking for that one that will offer slower dungeons but nothing.

Ive discussed this issue with guild officers and guild masters and they say it's because they have run dungeons 50 times or more so they just want to get their transmute crystals and leave. But new players dont want to be dragged through dungeons like a ball and chain or be left so far behind that they miss out on looting final dungeon boss, especially with magicka players that run slower.

I get that vet players want their crystals but if zos can offer another way to get them then dungeons can go back to how they were intended to be played....I have 2 eso accounts which i pay for so i love eso more than any game and yes i have lots of 810 cp characters .....I still care about new beginner players and i have a new account and when i play my lowbies i get to see how unbalanced and unfair the game feels...how frustrating it is to not get to experience this dungeons , read books, finish quests ....

The only way is to get to vet and solo them which i can now do myself but it makes me mad and sad that this is the way.....zos you will lose new players when they become discouraged and frustrated in the earlier stages.

Even normal trials are now called ' fun runs'.... To quote my ex guildies " Normals are ezy ...too ezy...you dont even need to know what to do...just the tank needs to know what to do" .....

Then you go into a guild trial with vets in vet gear all drunk and being silly and flexing.....i prefer to pug in craglorn than do trials with these flexing drunk clowns...
I am here for the new beginner players that have expressed their frustrations in many guilds. Guilds that call
themselves beginner friendly...🤔😣

Other posters have suggested adding a "speed run" option to the queue where players who are just looking to get the dungeon over with as fast as possible can join. And honestly: I think that's probably the best option right now. It would probably increase queue times dramatically for new players. But at least they could enjoy the dungeon once they got in it.

Icy_Waffles

I think the answer is to provide vet players with a bigger backpack to be able to carry new players. Maybe an increased speed boost as well since sprinting can slow down the run.

In all seriousness. Who cares? It’s a random queue. You get what you get.

I’m not in there doing a random normal every day to slowly teach new players how to play.

Maybe the answer would be in formation of some sort of grouping for newer players? The answer is NOT <50 dungeon queue. I assure you, I can run a new character through just about as fast as a fully leveled one. Perhaps it had to do with some sort of grouping for newer players based on their account. Or an option for them to join a “new players” guild type grouping where they can learn.

Not all new players are going to be able to join a teaching guild.

Icy_Waffles

There’s nothing to stop. If you don’t like me running through queued as tank (with inner fire) on a dps character then feel free to leave the group. I don’t care either way.

nukk3r

Faiza wrote: »

nukk3r wrote: »

How long does one plan to stay a "beginner"? All the beginners I've met were eager to jump into end game ASAP. They constantly asked "when I'm allowed to do this? when I'm allowed to do that?". I completed DLC hardmodes with a guy who was just a month into the game. We carried him through normal content for XP and he learned to play in vet, where you actually encounter the mechanics. IMO it has nothing to do with being a beginner, just the will to learn how to play the game in a most efficient way.

Do you have any idea how many new players ESO gets in a month, a week or a day? How many people only log on once a week, or once a month? What the average ability of players are?

Also, not everyone has the same ideas about efficiency as you - speed isn't everything. I've said this before in these threads, it's absurd that you all want to blow through these dungeons as fast as possible, ignoring everything and skipping bosses, then are shocked when randoms are max CP or queue into veteran and don't know the mechanics, and think it's normal to just be able to run through them when it isn't.

Personally I'm not shocked, but that's the thing I'm talking about. Instead of learning the mechanics in vet people try to learn them in normal, where you don't even see half of them and get just a fraction of damage.

vamp_emily

Your best bet is to start a group with like minded players.

Jeremy

nukk3r wrote: »

Faiza wrote: »

nukk3r wrote: »

How long does one plan to stay a "beginner"? All the beginners I've met were eager to jump into end game ASAP. They constantly asked "when I'm allowed to do this? when I'm allowed to do that?". I completed DLC hardmodes with a guy who was just a month into the game. We carried him through normal content for XP and he learned to play in vet, where you actually encounter the mechanics. IMO it has nothing to do with being a beginner, just the will to learn how to play the game in a most efficient way.

Do you have any idea how many new players ESO gets in a month, a week or a day? How many people only log on once a week, or once a month? What the average ability of players are?

Also, not everyone has the same ideas about efficiency as you - speed isn't everything. I've said this before in these threads, it's absurd that you all want to blow through these dungeons as fast as possible, ignoring everything and skipping bosses, then are shocked when randoms are max CP or queue into veteran and don't know the mechanics, and think it's normal to just be able to run through them when it isn't.

Personally I'm not shocked, but that's the thing I'm talking about. Instead of learning the mechanics in vet people try to learn them in normal, where you don't even see half of them and get just a fraction of damage.

True. Normal Dungeons are basically useless as training grounds for Veteran Dungeons, mostly because you have experienced players speed running through them all the time. Which I can understand honestly because it can get tedious doing the same dungeon over and over and over again trying to get gear or a lead. But it also presents the irony of Veteran Players oft complaining about newer players joining Veteran Dungeons without understanding the mechanics when they are at least partly to blame for that because they have turned normal dungeons into mindless treadmills.

kain.winterhearteb17_ESO

@Recent, do not hesitate to initiate vote for kicking speedrunner out of the group, and if one fails - start another one immediately to maximize your chances. That's the only way I see to make them think before trying to ruin experience for others.

Araneae6537

I don’t think that most people mean to be rude when they do this but rather assume (perhaps correctly?) that most players want to do this and so it being to everyone’s benefit to group for a speedrun. So I think the problem then is lack of communication and misaligned expectations. While in my experience, most people will make sure you are able to do the quest, you can imagine from their perspective, if they grouped with the intention of doing a speedrun, that it would be frustrating if someone wanted to do the quest and listen to all the dialogue besides!

There are people who like to take their time, explore and do the quest fully, at least some of the time, and if you are on the PC NA server I could see about getting you an invite to the Slow Dungeons Discord channel.

I do think that even beginners are looking for different experiences and many appreciate being flown through content for their skillpoint or helmet. I think it’s all about communication and finding people with the same goals. And I too often enjoy PUGging in part because there are more likely to be people still learning and otherwise not OP (no slight meant to those who are!).

Wolfpaw

Recent wrote: »

@ZOS_RichLambert I beg you to please change how dungeons work. Please offer a system where new beginner players can go through a dungeon at a normal pace, not running behind a vet player who can solo the dungeon. Every guild I have joined trying to find one that remembers what it was like to be a new player does the same thing....flex and speed leaving their newbie guild mates behind. There's no hope anymore...ive joined more guilds than i can say here looking for that one that will offer slower dungeons but nothing.

Ive discussed this issue with guild officers and guild masters and they say it's because they have run dungeons 50 times or more so they just want to get their transmute crystals and leave. But new players dont want to be dragged through dungeons like a ball and chain or be left so far behind that they miss out on looting final dungeon boss, especially with magicka players that run slower.

I get that vet players want their crystals but if zos can offer another way to get them then dungeons can go back to how they were intended to be played....I have 2 eso accounts which i pay for so i love eso more than any game and yes i have lots of 810 cp characters .....I still care about new beginner players and i have a new account and when i play my lowbies i get to see how unbalanced and unfair the game feels...how frustrating it is to not get to experience this dungeons , read books, finish quests ....

The only way is to get to vet and solo them which i can now do myself but it makes me mad and sad that this is the way.....zos you will lose new players when they become discouraged and frustrated in the earlier stages.

Even normal trials are now called ' fun runs'.... To quote my ex guildies " Normals are ezy ...too ezy...you dont even need to know what to do...just the tank needs to know what to do" .....

Then you go into a guild trial with vets in vet gear all drunk and being silly and flexing.....i prefer to pug in craglorn than do trials with these flexing drunk clowns...
I am here for the new beginner players that have expressed their frustrations in many guilds. Guilds that call
themselves beginner friendly...🤔😣

If ZOS would make a ESO version of GW2 LFG system, the best LFG system I have ever used, this wouldn't be an issue.

You could also form a group/guild yourself and not have to deal with speed runs.

nukk3r

Jeremy wrote: »

nukk3r wrote: »

Faiza wrote: »

nukk3r wrote: »

How long does one plan to stay a "beginner"? All the beginners I've met were eager to jump into end game ASAP. They constantly asked "when I'm allowed to do this? when I'm allowed to do that?". I completed DLC hardmodes with a guy who was just a month into the game. We carried him through normal content for XP and he learned to play in vet, where you actually encounter the mechanics. IMO it has nothing to do with being a beginner, just the will to learn how to play the game in a most efficient way.

Do you have any idea how many new players ESO gets in a month, a week or a day? How many people only log on once a week, or once a month? What the average ability of players are?

Also, not everyone has the same ideas about efficiency as you - speed isn't everything. I've said this before in these threads, it's absurd that you all want to blow through these dungeons as fast as possible, ignoring everything and skipping bosses, then are shocked when randoms are max CP or queue into veteran and don't know the mechanics, and think it's normal to just be able to run through them when it isn't.

Personally I'm not shocked, but that's the thing I'm talking about. Instead of learning the mechanics in vet people try to learn them in normal, where you don't even see half of them and get just a fraction of damage.

True. Normal Dungeons are basically useless as training grounds for Veteran Dungeons, mostly because you have experienced players speed running through them all the time. Which I can understand honestly because it can get tedious doing the same dungeon over and over and over again trying to get gear or a lead. But it also presents the irony of Veteran Players oft complaining about newer players joining Veteran Dungeons without understanding the mechanics when they are at least partly to blame for that because they have turned normal dungeons into mindless treadmills.

That's what the guilds are for. Vet players help beginners with training runs, I did that, I know others that did that. Isolation from random people does wonders.

barney2525

Icy_Waffles wrote: »

There’s nothing to stop. If you don’t like me running through queued as tank (with inner fire) on a dps character then feel free to leave the group. I don’t care either way.

So your answer is : They get to waste their time and not get to finish the dungeon. If they don't like it, THEY have to leave.

thats wonderful

Jeremy

nukk3r wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

nukk3r wrote: »

Faiza wrote: »

nukk3r wrote: »

How long does one plan to stay a "beginner"? All the beginners I've met were eager to jump into end game ASAP. They constantly asked "when I'm allowed to do this? when I'm allowed to do that?". I completed DLC hardmodes with a guy who was just a month into the game. We carried him through normal content for XP and he learned to play in vet, where you actually encounter the mechanics. IMO it has nothing to do with being a beginner, just the will to learn how to play the game in a most efficient way.

Do you have any idea how many new players ESO gets in a month, a week or a day? How many people only log on once a week, or once a month? What the average ability of players are?

Also, not everyone has the same ideas about efficiency as you - speed isn't everything. I've said this before in these threads, it's absurd that you all want to blow through these dungeons as fast as possible, ignoring everything and skipping bosses, then are shocked when randoms are max CP or queue into veteran and don't know the mechanics, and think it's normal to just be able to run through them when it isn't.

Personally I'm not shocked, but that's the thing I'm talking about. Instead of learning the mechanics in vet people try to learn them in normal, where you don't even see half of them and get just a fraction of damage.

True. Normal Dungeons are basically useless as training grounds for Veteran Dungeons, mostly because you have experienced players speed running through them all the time. Which I can understand honestly because it can get tedious doing the same dungeon over and over and over again trying to get gear or a lead. But it also presents the irony of Veteran Players oft complaining about newer players joining Veteran Dungeons without understanding the mechanics when they are at least partly to blame for that because they have turned normal dungeons into mindless treadmills.

That's what the guilds are for. Vet players help beginners with training runs, I did that, I know others that did that. Isolation from random people does wonders.

I disagree. A person should not have to join a guild in order to experience a normal dungeon as was intended without having Veteran Players running all over the place because they are too powerful for the content - which is designed for newer players.

I would prefer that guilds get together and plan their own speed runs. That would honestly make more sense and wouldn't ruin the experience for new players in the process.

TheImperfect

Please add a story mode to dungeons so that you can play it both ways. Either doing the quests and dialogue, killing all the monsters etc (maybe add different achievements for dialogue completion, monster clearing and exploration) or the ordinary style of dungeon run that we currently have.
I have had this problem and GoonyGoat kindly made videos of the dungeons on another forum thread and watching them at least helps understand why you are in the dungeon and what the story is and the point of it because blink and you missed it. As for grouping for it, who has the time to get a group together in real life these days? An automated queue finder like we have for both types would be much better.

Everest_Lionheart

nukk3r wrote: »

Faiza wrote: »

nukk3r wrote: »

How long does one plan to stay a "beginner"? All the beginners I've met were eager to jump into end game ASAP. They constantly asked "when I'm allowed to do this? when I'm allowed to do that?". I completed DLC hardmodes with a guy who was just a month into the game. We carried him through normal content for XP and he learned to play in vet, where you actually encounter the mechanics. IMO it has nothing to do with being a beginner, just the will to learn how to play the game in a most efficient way.

Do you have any idea how many new players ESO gets in a month, a week or a day? How many people only log on once a week, or once a month? What the average ability of players are?

Also, not everyone has the same ideas about efficiency as you - speed isn't everything. I've said this before in these threads, it's absurd that you all want to blow through these dungeons as fast as possible, ignoring everything and skipping bosses, then are shocked when randoms are max CP or queue into veteran and don't know the mechanics, and think it's normal to just be able to run through them when it isn't.

Personally I'm not shocked, but that's the thing I'm talking about. Instead of learning the mechanics in vet people try to learn them in normal, where you don't even see half of them and get just a fraction of damage.

Wait there are actually mechanics on normal? Only half kidding here. The base game dungeons are a pushover even on vet HM. These are the ones most people are speeding through. It’s not until you start doing DLC dungeons on normal that you run into mechanics that are going to teach you something on vet and even then the most “punishing” mechanics barely tickle your character once you have a couple hundred CP under your belt.

At some point though the dungeons started to be full of gimmicks and tricks to force a slow down or some crazy mechanic like the rat race in FV which on vet has even more mechanics added to it. It’s fun the first couple times you do it, but on about run #15 you get a little tired of having to double back on yourself and wait around for doors to open or playing the crazy mouse game.

Or you get “lucky” and end up in Lair of Maarselok where even a speedrun takes a good 30 minutes.

Or my personal favourite MoS with all kinds of neat mechanics that can punish you on normal that require extreme coordination in vet. People aren’t speeding through there because you can’t, but people are bailing on that dungeon when it does pop on their queue often dragging out even normal runs even further.

Maybe if they tied transmute stones in PvE to something other than the GF the quality of the dungeon runs would improve. But for now that is by far the best source of them and people are determined to get in and out as fast as possible.

Icy_Waffles

barney2525 wrote: »

Icy_Waffles wrote: »

There’s nothing to stop. If you don’t like me running through queued as tank (with inner fire) on a dps character then feel free to leave the group. I don’t care either way.

So your answer is : They get to waste their time and not get to finish the dungeon. If they don't like it, THEY have to leave.

thats wonderful

They clearly do get to finish the dungeon... and then get on with their life.

This comes down to complaining “ransoms” aren’t playing the way you want to play. Group up with like minded players if you want this.

There’s nothing to STOP.

However-

I’m always for more options as people are different and have different preferences. Totally fine. Let me sign up for a speed running carnage run and let new players join a take time to smell the roses group. Lol

Perfectly fine. Neither of these types of players should be punished. Just more options. As of right now.... yeah. Leave if you don’t like it that’s your call.

defcon.dealer1b14_ESO

There are numerous players that do not jet off from the group. That goes for guild members and randoms alike.

There are some that do load....and are at a dead sprint the entire time.

Sometimes a simple group message asking them to slow down, can go a long way. I myself have hit the ground running when I see other 810's in the group......but I have been asked to wait as some are new toons and need the quest etc..

At that point, I just simply stop and reply np, my bad.

Voting to kick someone before attempting to communicate with them, is not the ideal way, imo.

Regardless, in my experiences over the years, the majority of players will work as a team.

Just my 2 cents.

graybeardII

You have said you have joined and quit multiple guilds maybe its time to start your own guild recruit like minded players and run as a premade group as of right now that's the only option I can see this thread is only going to get more salty from here

VampireLordLover99

I really think the urgency of this "issue" is highly...ah..not so urgent.

Also might want to consider just getting good enough to solo normal dungeons if this is that big of an issue for you.

Wolfpaw

defcon.dealer1b14_ESO wrote: »

There are numerous players that do not jet off from the group. That goes for guild members and randoms alike.

There are some that do load....and are at a dead sprint the entire time.

Sometimes a simple group message asking them to slow down, can go a long way. I myself have hit the ground running when I see other 810's in the group......but I have been asked to wait as some are new toons and need the quest etc..

At that point, I just simply stop and reply np, my bad.

Voting to kick someone before attempting to communicate with them, is not the ideal way, imo.

Regardless, in my experiences over the years, the majority of players will work as a team.

Just my 2 cents.

I do the same if someone says they need the story done...I pull out my phone & zone out, dropping a regen or LA once in awhile.

Once again a GW2 lfg system would fix fake roles, unwanted quest runs, & unwanted speed runs, it's such a great simple system.

redspecter23

If you don't like how someone is running in your group, initiate the vote kick.

If the vote kick doesn't pass, it appears that you may be the outlier, not them. Do the right thing and leave the group and try again.

It's not about fast and slow. It's about conforming to the group majority. If 3 players are slow and one is fast the fast one is subject to being kicked. If 3 are fast and one is slow, the slow one is on the chopping block.

In a random group, you adjust your playstyle to fit the group for the benefit of the run. If you want a specific group of players, form your own hand picked group. It's a pug. You get what you get.

VampireLordLover99

TheImperfect wrote: »

Please add a story mode to dungeons so that you can play it both ways. Either doing the quests and dialogue, killing all the monsters etc (maybe add different achievements for dialogue completion, monster clearing and exploration) or the ordinary style of dungeon run that we currently have.
I have had this problem and GoonyGoat kindly made videos of the dungeons on another forum thread and watching them at least helps understand why you are in the dungeon and what the story is and the point of it because blink and you missed it. As for grouping for it, who has the time to get a group together in real life these days? An automated queue finder like we have for both types would be much better.

Add an optional hard mode to the story bosses that make use of actual mechanics and deal.

If solo players are gonna step on the literal one thing group players have, then give an option for story bosses to be truly epic.

Faiza

defcon.dealer1b14_ESO wrote: »

There are numerous players that do not jet off from the group. That goes for guild members and randoms alike.

There are some that do load....and are at a dead sprint the entire time.

Sometimes a simple group message asking them to slow down, can go a long way. I myself have hit the ground running when I see other 810's in the group......but I have been asked to wait as some are new toons and need the quest etc..

At that point, I just simply stop and reply np, my bad.

Voting to kick someone before attempting to communicate with them, is not the ideal way, imo.

Regardless, in my experiences over the years, the majority of players will work as a team.

Just my 2 cents.

It's much more frequent that those asking to wait, or asking to complete quests or ignored, or verbally berated by the speed runner.

Or, even sometimes been votekicked themselves as I've witnessed.

idk

This is not urgent as Zos has already given every player the solution.

When we queue for a random group of players to run a dungeon with we are literally asking for randomness in the type of players to play with. There is little Zos can do to control players in dungeons.

Zos already provided us with the ability to take control of dungeon groups by forming the group ahead of time. Form it from guilds and your friends lists with everyone knowing the specific intent of the dungeon run. Not only will the run be the type you prefer, since you made it happen, but the dungeon runs will be more predictable and smoother since it avoids the random chance of getting someone that is not that good of a player.

This course of action is a win/win.