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Urgent: Help new players pls zos, vets are speed running all normal dungeons 😣😣😣
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hafgood✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm sick amd tired of these discussions. I really am, the ones who want to do dungeons at their own slow pace never ever seem to like the suggestion that they actually form a group before using the group finder because it seems its their right to run a dungeon at whatever pace they want.
I'm not condoning the speed runners but who can really blame them? Doing a random for 10 crystals on multiple characters takes time. As such they want to do each run quickly.
The solution? Accept that when you PUG you have a good chance of getting a speed freak.
I rarely PUG, I generally do premades, on the rare occasion we can only get 3 together we make sure the randoms needs are met, if they want to do the quest they do the quest.
But don't expect to take all night with it.7 -
validifyedneb18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭I feel bad for all players in this regard. I don't want to spend an hour in a dungeon I could do alone in 20 mins, any more than some poor new player wants to run to catch up with a group while trying to learn the ropes of the game.EU: Magden, Magknight, Stamsorc(*2), Magsorc
NA: Magplar, Magden, PotatoBlade3 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It would be nice if ZOS in 2021 focused on game systems that cause a divide/conflict within the community.
Zos solved this issue years ago by giving us the ability to form our own group. It works marvelously well and thousands of players do this every day. What is amazing about this solution is the group tends to have smoother runs overall than a random GF group of players.
& yet here we're.
Tools like a global lfg channel or a lfg system similar to GW2 would be beneficial to the community.
Allowing players to form their group is harldy "marvelous", or much effort on ZOS part.
I was not suggesting it was a lot of effort and was merely noting it solves the issue being complained about.
I do not know what GW2 has, but if the person is not willing to use guild chat or zone then it is doubtful they will use a LFG channel. I have no idea why people avoid forming their own group when they seem so unhappy with the groups they get via the GF.
Rewards maybe? Convenience? No Global lfg chat (would be abused though).
I would agree since the OP seems to have found their group both reading and convenient. /s
Thousands of players manage queue for dungeons via the GF with pre-made groups even though ESO does not have a LFG chat. Having up to five guilds that can have up to 500 players each works well. Though I would suggest finding one or two truly active guilds for both faster and better quality results.
Tanks, like myself, find doing so is significantly more rewarding and convenient than having the GF pair us up with random players. Most decent tanks ceased having the GF form a group for us because we got tired of the random skill levels of players in the GF.
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MasterSpatula✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭One thing getting overlooked in all these discussions is that GF dungeons is a major part of how people find guilds. A friend and guildie of mine ran a random normal with three new players two days ago, the kind of players who need to respect the mechanics even in a normal dungeon but had never had anyone explain them to them. He took his time with them, saw them listen and pick up new and better ways of doing their roles. And after they completed the dungeon, our guild had three new members who are in guild chat asking questions, getting taken on gear runs, and making friends.
The problem isn't high-level players at all, so blanket actions affecting high-level players aren't solutions at all. The problem is selfish jerks and a system that currently incentivizes selfish jerks to play with people their behavior can screw over."A probable impossibility is preferable to an improbable possibility." - Aristotle6 -
KaGaOri✭✭✭✭SupremeRissole wrote: »How is carrying a group of lowbies in fungal 1 and getting them the complete in 5 minutes screwing over their waited queue time.
Vice versa, are you in favour of screwing over someone who has waited 20+ minutes to get a group only to drag the dungeon out for a further 20 minutes?
Once again seeing as you seem to have missed my point, there's equal arguments both for and against speedrunning.
Zos have tried fixing it before (we used to be able to queue for all three roles) and based on these threads, the problem still isnt fixed.
This discussion isn't about "going through dungeon fast = bad", it's about single speedrunner ditching the group, namely group who can't possibly follow at that speed (low level, mag build with less stamina, needs quest npc to turn up, etc.), cheeting the group out of boss loot, quest completion and chance to actually run the dungeon (and learn it).
For example: Just finished RND on my low level healer - Elden Hollow I. One dd and me were doing the quest and sure enough - tank took off right of the gate and disapeared into distance with no comunication what's so ever. The other dd spent whole run going back and forth between tank and the two of us like a ping pong. Was trying to heal, but eventually someone died when two of us fought boss, tank ran off into next tunel alone and was coming back with all the mobs dragging behind and other dd, who went after him, ran from these mobs and agroed different mobs on opposite side of the room (which we skiped while trying to catch up with tank moments before). Better / more experienced healer might be able to heal on three different places at once, but obviously not there yet (kinda the point of going to low level content first). Speedruner didn't make run faster, didn't carry us (even if they could likely solo the dungeon themselves), it was just stressful mess.5 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It would be nice if ZOS in 2021 focused on game systems that cause a divide/conflict within the community.
Zos solved this issue years ago by giving us the ability to form our own group. It works marvelously well and thousands of players do this every day. What is amazing about this solution is the group tends to have smoother runs overall than a random GF group of players.
& yet here we're.
Tools like a global lfg channel or a lfg system similar to GW2 would be beneficial to the community.
Allowing players to form their group is harldy "marvelous", or much effort on ZOS part.
I was not suggesting it was a lot of effort and was merely noting it solves the issue being complained about.
I do not know what GW2 has, but if the person is not willing to use guild chat or zone then it is doubtful they will use a LFG channel. I have no idea why people avoid forming their own group when they seem so unhappy with the groups they get via the GF.
Rewards maybe? Convenience? No Global lfg chat (would be abused though).
Example of GW2 LFG system in ESO.
1. Pick your dungeon norm/vet
2. Post/type a description or scroll through posts to join.
examples:
Lfm 3dps speed run
Lfm story run
Lfm 810cp plus only
Lf2dps & 1tank no cp run
Lfm achievement run
You get the idea~
3. Join group of your choice
4. When 4th (ESO) person joins group finder places group in dungeon.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Looking_For_Group
So, I play GW2, but I only use LFG for world events. But this is essentially the same as using chat (either guild or zone) to form a group with specific objectives.
People form groups for randoms in my guilds all the time so they can go at whatever speed they want.
The thing is, GW2 doesn't give you any reward for joining a random group. Their system lets you form a group for a specific purpose, which we can easily do as well. But there is no "put me in any group and I'll help out so I get a Revive Orb" for example.
And the fact that people can get 10 transmute crystals per character per day by queuing for a random encourages some people to run as many randoms as they can fit into their playtime with as many characters as possible.
The Moot Councillor1 -
SupremeRissole✭✭✭✭SupremeRissole wrote: »How is carrying a group of lowbies in fungal 1 and getting them the complete in 5 minutes screwing over their waited queue time.
Vice versa, are you in favour of screwing over someone who has waited 20+ minutes to get a group only to drag the dungeon out for a further 20 minutes?
Once again seeing as you seem to have missed my point, there's equal arguments both for and against speedrunning.
Zos have tried fixing it before (we used to be able to queue for all three roles) and based on these threads, the problem still isnt fixed.
This discussion isn't about "going through dungeon fast = bad", it's about single speedrunner ditching the group, namely group who can't possibly follow at that speed (low level, mag build with less stamina, needs quest npc to turn up, etc.), cheeting the group out of boss loot, quest completion and chance to actually run the dungeon (and learn it).
For example: Just finished RND on my low level healer - Elden Hollow I. One dd and me were doing the quest and sure enough - tank took off right of the gate and disapeared into distance with no comunication what's so ever. The other dd spent whole run going back and forth between tank and the two of us like a ping pong. Was trying to heal, but eventually someone died when two of us fought boss, tank ran off into next tunel alone and was coming back with all the mobs dragging behind and other dd, who went after him, ran from these mobs and agroed different mobs on opposite side of the room (which we skiped while trying to catch up with tank moments before). Better / more experienced healer might be able to heal on three different places at once, but obviously not there yet (kinda the point of going to low level content first). Speedruner didn't make run faster, didn't carry us (even if they could likely solo the dungeon themselves), it was just stressful mess.
Understandably that can be frustrating. What Im saying is you run the gauntlet when you use the GF tool. In that instance you just kick the tank or get on with it. Its an MMO with (apparently) millions of players so the chances of you grouping with someone who plays differently to how you like is pretty high. Engage with like minded people in guilds or deal with other people's playstyles in the GF.2 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MasterSpatula wrote: »One thing getting overlooked in all these discussions is that GF dungeons is a major part of how people find guilds. A friend and guildie of mine ran a random normal with three new players two days ago, the kind of players who need to respect the mechanics even in a normal dungeon but had never had anyone explain them to them. He took his time with them, saw them listen and pick up new and better ways of doing their roles. And after they completed the dungeon, our guild had three new members who are in guild chat asking questions, getting taken on gear runs, and making friends.
The problem isn't high-level players at all, so blanket actions affecting high-level players aren't solutions at all. The problem is selfish jerks and a system that currently incentivizes selfish jerks to play with people their behavior can screw over.
I have met a few players in dungeons that I ended up recruiting but it was due to what set us apart from what they normally experienced, and that they played well enough to give them a chance. Running with my guild they became a pretty good player.
As such nothing needs to change.0 -
KaGaOri✭✭✭✭SupremeRissole wrote: »Understandably that can be frustrating. What Im saying is you run the gauntlet when you use the GF tool. In that instance you just kick the tank or get on with it. Its an MMO with (apparently) millions of players so the chances of you grouping with someone who plays differently to how you like is pretty high. Engage with like minded people in guilds or deal with other people's playstyles in the GF.
Fully expect to get from dungeon finder: questers, low lvl toons, inexperienced players, players with suboptimal / downright bad builds, ppl not knowing mechs and making (sometimes stupid) mistakes, and yes - ppl wanting to go at different pace. That's all fine by me. What I don't expect to get is player totally disregarding a group, basically using three other ppl as a ticket into 10 transmutes queue with no intention of having anything to do with them from the moment they successfully land inside a dungeon. That's not "difference in playstyle", that is sociopathic / toxic behaviour.6 -
Silaf✭✭✭✭✭SammyKhajit wrote: »For those who like to speed run, why don’t you do it solo instead of going through a GF? It’s like going along to a social event where the point is to interact a little bit (in this case, work as a team), but instead you just grab some food and leave 😕
Anyhow, give us a story mode with NPCs to pick from to form a team. Pointless creating a speed run mode as such people wouldn’t be considerate enough to use it.
You are assuming the correct way to play is yours and the rest must adapt.
Sorry but no rule say you have the right to tell a speedrunner he is wrong.
Simply you have different interests.
I'm a sorcerer dps i can let you imagine how fast my runs are
Oh and if you try to do optional bosses with me around i hope you don't care about killing the last boss because i'm not following you.
Still if someone ask me in chat instead of pretending to choose for me how to play i generally follow.
About the second part you are absolutly right. I'm a 1500cp+ playing since beta and still have no idea about what's going on with the story in some dungeons.
Why? Because i fell bad slowing down the group for my personal interest and because you can do the dungeon quest only once.
And trials are even worse.Edited by Silaf on December 31, 2020 5:41AM0 -
RageKing✭✭✭✭vets like speed runs, new players dont, thats it.
Only way to solve this is for zos to make seperate ques which has been asked many times. so dont blame speedrunners trying to farm gear or crystals, blame zos for the grouping tool.
Just as many others have said in here, if you want to do story mode, form your own group. or let people know at the start that you want to read everything. which has happened to me a few times in which case i just leave group. because i dont want to constantly stop and wait while you read all the dialogue in a dungeon i have ran a thousand times.3 -
Wolfshead✭✭✭✭I total agree I have around since beta and I have never stop playing this game but yes the attitude/culture in the dungeon have a total chance last 2 years it feels more like you play WoW everyone just rush to complete the daily undaunted quest which I'm total fine that people do.
But again if people have time to log in to MMO to play the do have time to not speed dungeon as well but I think this whole attitude/culture dungeon atm it is really messing that is why I most of the time don't do random dungeon or dungeon run at all for I don't want to get *** of on people do speed run in the dungeon.If you find yourself alone, riding in green fields with the sun on your face, do not be troubled; for you are in Elysium, and you're already deadWhat we do in life, echoes in eternity3 -
Faiza✭✭✭✭✭vets like speed runs, new players dont, thats it.
Only way to solve this is for zos to make seperate ques which has been asked many times. so dont blame speedrunners trying to farm gear or crystals, blame zos for the grouping tool.
Just as many others have said in here, if you want to do story mode, form your own group. or let people know at the start that you want to read everything. which has happened to me a few times in which case i just leave group. because i dont want to constantly stop and wait while you read all the dialogue in a dungeon i have ran a thousand times.
Literally no one is asking to stop and read every book in the dungeon.
We're talking about waiting 15 seconds for npcs to arrive/stop talking so people can advance their quests, like in Banished Cells, or not skipping entire bosses that players need for loot/exp like in Fungal Grotto, or not skipping entire groups of enemies that are required to advance the quest for the skill point in Tempest Island, or not killing entire bosses while someone is still loading into the dungeon, not ripping into low level and low cp players who you feel aren't pulling their weight because they don't have mythics equipped or aren't fully built yet in normal dungeons, not locking players out of dungeon and event completion. You know...basic courtesy type things.10 -
validifyedneb18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭I guess by speed running you mean running past trash. I used to do this a lot more but most players don't get the message that you are supposed to follow, even if you.slow down to heal them as you go, and even if you explain. So they sit at the back as soon as they see an enemy, get loads of aggro, and then I as tank have to come back and save their ass
EU: Magden, Magknight, Stamsorc(*2), Magsorc
NA: Magplar, Magden, PotatoBlade1 -
Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SupremeRissole wrote: »Some players have limited time to play, so if they can get it done in 10 minutes why would they deliberately slow down and do it in 40 minutes because someone wants to read every dialogue. Even if you kick them for being too fast they can just re-queue and probably still get it done faster than the initial group.
The argument that those players should find like minded players to pre-group, can be said for the slower players as well.
My point being, there is equal validity and reasoning for both slow and fast players, neither group likes the other.
Either way, you can't complain about random pug groups, you may get a really skilled and understanding tank, you may get a nightblade spamming bow light attacks and kiting the boss out of AOE's... it's random and if you dont like it you need to either leave group, kick the guy you don't like, or get on with it.
Real talk. Are you honestly in favor of screwing other players via wasting their time in a 20+minute long queue, when the current game structure / mechanics doesn't allow them to take part / gain the benefits of the quests or loot simply bc 1 inconsiderate d-bag with no thought for others sprinted ahead without even the slightest bit of courtesy?
You realize that what I’ve bolded could be applied to those who dawdle their way through a dungeon, expecting everyone else to slow down to their pace and getting angry when that doesn’t happen, right? Why are slow dungeon runners the only ones who are capable of getting “screwed over” in your eyes? Why are fast dungeon runners the “inconsiderate” party?
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Snowy_Wyndra_Karn✭✭✭✭✭COPY FROM ANOTHER POST...
delenn35delenn35
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I HATE the speed racers... and I am almost max CP... well, I've been playing for 4 years and would be max CP but transferred from console to PC about 6 months ago.
I hate teleporting into a dungeon and before you even have the chance to say "hello" you notice 2 or 3 players have just taken off and are nowhere to be found on your mini-map.
If this happens I just end up leaving but the crappy thing is... I get penalised!
It sucks!!!
There are dungeons I could solo as well, but I don't because the reason for queuing in a group finder is... I don't know, so you can work as a group???
I called someone out on this recently and they explained that, yes they could solo but they don't because with 4 other players there is 4 x the chance of getting the item you need. I understand this and can appreciate it, but other than this isolated time, I have had no one ask me for a specific item as they have raced through.
I HATE SPEED-RACERS!!!5 -
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Sarannah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
As a vet I hate speedruns too, especially since I am the tank. And always have to pick up where the dead speeding DPS left off. Meaning the run is always going to be slower for me.kain.winterhearteb17_ESO wrote: »
Not to mention, I like the group to kill everything to get all the exp/loot.
Edit: I do agree with some posts here. The general playerbase for games/MMO's is nowadays all about completion. Without looking at the journey. Fast fast fast seems to be the motto, which I am not for. I like fast, but not fast fast fast, if you get what I mean. Games are about fun.Edited by Sarannah on December 31, 2020 1:38PM5 -
TwiceBornStar✭✭✭✭I usually take my sweet time when playing. Wanna team up with me and form a guild? (EU server!)1 -
Snowy_Wyndra_Karn✭✭✭✭✭kain.winterhearteb17_ESO wrote: »
YES... yes... it's not just a vet thing.
I HATE speed racers... dungeons are so much more satisfying when you have worked together with others rather than racing ahead to show/prove how good you are.
I know how good you are, you know how good you are... who the hell cares?
Who cares how much DPS I have or how quickly I can take out the mob/boss if I'm not with the people I have queued up with?
Group dungeons are supposed to be done together... as part of a group.3 -
Anotherone773✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭kain.winterhearteb17_ESO wrote: »
I agree. I am also a vet and i have speedruns. I don't fund blitzing dungeons to be fun at all. It's not a job to me. I am not trying to be efficient. I play to relax and i enjoy running with newbies, teaching dungeon mechanics, looting containters, and such. The only thing i don't enjoy in trying to do a dungeon in 10 minutes or less.
As a vet I hate speedruns too, especially since I am the tank. And always have to pick up where the dead speeding DPS left off. Meaning the run is always going to be slower for me.kain.winterhearteb17_ESO wrote: »
Not to mention, I like the group to kill everything to get all the exp/loot.
Edit: I do agree with some posts here. The general playerbase for games/MMO's is nowadays all about completion. Without looking at the journey. Fast fast fast seems to be the motto, which I am not for. I like fast, but not fast fast fast, if you get what I mean. Games are about fun.
I don't know why everyone suddenly got in a hurry to turn gaming into a job. They do it with events, dungeons, anything that gives a limited reward. Its like they are addicted to " if i miss this chance to get it, i will never get it again because i can only get it once today!" I guess this is why all of our housing is limited time offer. They fall for the "Limited time to complete/purchase" every single time. They do it with pledge keys. I just do what i want and then when the item comes up on the golden i just buy it. Way easier than grinding out 5,10,20 dungeons a day for a key everyday.3 -
Galarthor✭✭✭✭✭
✭Here is an innovative solution for you: Create your own guild and only invite like-minded people.
Alternative: Git gud like those players you complain about and then solo the dungeon at your own pace.
This game has bigger issues that the devs should focus on - e.g. constant game crashes, poor server performance, class imbalance.4 -
Snowy_Wyndra_Karn✭✭✭✭✭Here is an innovative solution for you: Create your own guild and only invite like-minded people.
Alternative: Git gud like those players you complain about and then solo the dungeon at your own pace.
This game has bigger issues that the devs should focus on - e.g. constant game crashes, poor server performance, class imbalance.
I can already solo those dungeons... why don't they?
I queue for a dungeon because I like working with others.
They obviously don't, hence why they take off as soon as teleport in.5 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭vets like speed runs, new players dont, thats it.
I'm a vet and it really depends on why I'm running a dungeon.
Doing pledges with guildies where nobody needs the quest? Let's run it as fast as possible.
Doing a dungeon for Undaunted event chest? I start soloing and invite guildies along if they want, but we're getting this done asap.
One of my characters or one of my group needs a quest in the dungeon? We're taking our time and making sure all readable texts are added to Eidetic Memory, all bosses are taken care of and the quest is being followed.
Joining a random group via group finder? What does the group want to do? Does anyone need the quest/achievement? Let's get it done!The Moot Councillor8 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭phileunderx2 wrote: »ZOS get rid of randoms giving the most crystals.
We should get 10 on the competition of our first dungeon of the day no matter the mode.
The unpopular solution would be limit the random dungeon reward to only the first run PER ACCOUNT, so people don't feel rushed to finish the daily random on as many characters as possible.The Moot Councillor1 -
Anotherone773✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Here is an innovative solution for you: Create your own guild and only invite like-minded people.
Alternative: Git gud like those players you complain about and then solo the dungeon at your own pace.
This game has bigger issues that the devs should focus on - e.g. constant game crashes, poor server performance, class imbalance.
I normally would run a guild. I have in every game ive played but this one including raiding guilds in WoW and Rift. But i am at a point in my life where i own a business, have to take care of my elderly mother, and do a lot of traveling( normally). I don't have the hours a day to exhaust on guild management/recruitment. Maybe speedrunners should make a guild for speedrunners? So they don't have us slow people holding them up.
I am GUD, i just like doing group content with you know... a group. Also, most of us are talking about normals where the inexperienced, story runners, and lowbies lurk. How about speed runners "git gud" and run vets instead and leave the normal dungeons to those who want a casual/learning/questing experience???
This is a big issue for a lot of people as you might have noticed by multiple multipage threads. Just because its not important to YOU doesn't mean its not important to a bunch of other people. My priorities and your priorities for fixes are not the same and that is ok. Don't belittle us for having different priorities than you.
Constant crashes are not an issue for me. I have crashed once in the entire year.
Server performance barely affects me. I get short lag spikes and slightly longer load times. But i always do during popular events because a lot of people always log in during those events. When the event is over people will be bored for a couple of weeks until the big announcement and then they will be hyped again.
Class imbalance also not a big issue for me. I do BGs with randoms sometimes but class imbalance doesn't really affect my gameplay in PVE.
None of YOUR issues are important to me but i am not going to belittle you for caring about them and telling you how we have more important things to focus on.Edited by Anotherone773 on December 31, 2020 2:57PM2 -
Ellimist_Entreri✭✭✭Anotherone773 wrote: »How about speed runners "git gud" and run vets instead and leave the normal dungeons to those who want a casual/learning/questing experience???
Now there's an idea
The problem really sounds to me like it's the transmute crystal rewards from the random that incentivizes this sort of behavior - if the veteran content provided a higher reward or the normal contents transmute reward was lowered it might help to push many of these users into the higher tier content.
Edited by Ellimist_Entreri on December 31, 2020 3:01PM1 -
Anotherone773✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Ellimist_Entreri wrote: »Anotherone773 wrote: »How about speed runners "git gud" and run vets instead and leave the normal dungeons to those who want a casual/learning/questing experience???
Now there's an idea
The problem really sounds to me like it's the transmute crystal rewards from the random that incentivizes this sort of behavior - if the veteran content provided a higher reward or the normal contents transmute reward was lowered it might help to push many of these users into the higher tier content.
Before that though it was the pledges. I stayed away from pledge dungeons because that is when you always get the people that are like " I have 5 more toons to do pledges on and only 2 hours before bedtime!" Making 2H weapons count as 2 slots for sets changed a lot of builds so that monster sets werent the default go to for meta builds. They are still used sometimes but not like they were. Though having a single mythic once again to offset the balance.
They should just stop with the pledge system or give it its own queue, that would remove some toxic people from the dungeon queue.1 -
KhajiitLivesMatter✭✭✭✭ZOS should have addressed the fake roles situation a long time ago. This situation is only getting worse(expanding with speedrunners), and it getting worse was only a question of time. Since nothing is done to stop those types of players. My guess is, that pretty soon players like that will find yet another way to screw over regular players.
Just place heavy restrictions on roles to stop fake roles. Besides that: Do not allow bossfights to be skipped, and do not allow bossfights to start with less than 3 players in the boss arena. Speedrunner problem solved.
if u do that restrict dps to not only healer an tank
atleast 40k should be enought that nobody would use fake roles but who wants to wait 30min for a dungon and than another hour cause dds dont do dmg1
