spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »Base game vet "1" dungeons 15k
Base game vet "2" dungeons 25k
Early dlc dungeon 30k
Late dlc dungeons 35k
Still leaves a lot of room but ensures a minimum requirement group can pass a clear. HM is another story.
You don't need 35k to run any dungeon that I'm aware of. That seems way too high. Most of the playerbase is sitting at 25k or less.
There are plenty of people who have out the time and effort into hitting reasonable DPS numbers. No reason other people can't do the same.
I disagree with that. As a Playstation user, the number of people that can hit those numbers and get clears in that content is already very low. And I know that from the trophies. And you're not gonna incentivize anyone to get better by not giving them a chance to work through content that's a challenge. Getting your behind handed to you and wanting to come back stronger is a very common motivation in gamers. I wouldn't want to deny people that.
I think the number shouldn't be set at something comfortable and fast that caters to the like 1% that have the time or ability to constantly push forward. The cream will always rise to the top anyway.
It should just be high enough that the content is doable if people are willing to put in the time and energy to learn mechanics of the dungeon. It shouldn't be done on the premise you should be skipping mechanics.
And I honestly can't think of any dungeon that needs more than 25k for that.
spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »Base game vet "1" dungeons 15k
Base game vet "2" dungeons 25k
Early dlc dungeon 30k
Late dlc dungeons 35k
Still leaves a lot of room but ensures a minimum requirement group can pass a clear. HM is another story.
You don't need 35k to run any dungeon that I'm aware of. That seems way too high. Most of the playerbase is sitting at 25k or less.
There are plenty of people who have out the time and effort into hitting reasonable DPS numbers. No reason other people can't do the same.
I disagree with that. As a Playstation user, the number of people that can hit those numbers and get clears in that content is already very low. And I know that from the trophies. And you're not gonna incentivize anyone to get better by not giving them a chance to work through content that's a challenge. Getting your behind handed to you and wanting to come back stronger is a very common motivation in gamers. I wouldn't want to deny people that.
I think the number shouldn't be set at something comfortable and fast that caters to the like 1% that have the time or ability to constantly push forward. The cream will always rise to the top anyway.
It should just be high enough that the content is doable if people are willing to put in the time and energy to learn mechanics of the dungeon. It shouldn't be done on the premise you should be skipping mechanics.
And I honestly can't think of any dungeon that needs more than 25k for that.
Ok then let's go with lower values.
10k
15k
20k
25k
spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »Base game vet "1" dungeons 15k
Base game vet "2" dungeons 25k
Early dlc dungeon 30k
Late dlc dungeons 35k
Still leaves a lot of room but ensures a minimum requirement group can pass a clear. HM is another story.
You don't need 35k to run any dungeon that I'm aware of. That seems way too high. Most of the playerbase is sitting at 25k or less.
There are plenty of people who have out the time and effort into hitting reasonable DPS numbers. No reason other people can't do the same.
I disagree with that. As a Playstation user, the number of people that can hit those numbers and get clears in that content is already very low. And I know that from the trophies. And you're not gonna incentivize anyone to get better by not giving them a chance to work through content that's a challenge. Getting your behind handed to you and wanting to come back stronger is a very common motivation in gamers. I wouldn't want to deny people that.
I think the number shouldn't be set at something comfortable and fast that caters to the like 1% that have the time or ability to constantly push forward. The cream will always rise to the top anyway.
It should just be high enough that the content is doable if people are willing to put in the time and energy to learn mechanics of the dungeon. It shouldn't be done on the premise you should be skipping mechanics.
And I honestly can't think of any dungeon that needs more than 25k for that.
Ok then let's go with lower values.
10k
15k
20k
25k
spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »Base game vet "1" dungeons 15k
Base game vet "2" dungeons 25k
Early dlc dungeon 30k
Late dlc dungeons 35k
Still leaves a lot of room but ensures a minimum requirement group can pass a clear. HM is another story.
You don't need 35k to run any dungeon that I'm aware of. That seems way too high. Most of the playerbase is sitting at 25k or less.
There are plenty of people who have out the time and effort into hitting reasonable DPS numbers. No reason other people can't do the same.
I disagree with that. As a Playstation user, the number of people that can hit those numbers and get clears in that content is already very low. And I know that from the trophies. And you're not gonna incentivize anyone to get better by not giving them a chance to work through content that's a challenge. Getting your behind handed to you and wanting to come back stronger is a very common motivation in gamers. I wouldn't want to deny people that.
I think the number shouldn't be set at something comfortable and fast that caters to the like 1% that have the time or ability to constantly push forward. The cream will always rise to the top anyway.
It should just be high enough that the content is doable if people are willing to put in the time and energy to learn mechanics of the dungeon. It shouldn't be done on the premise you should be skipping mechanics.
And I honestly can't think of any dungeon that needs more than 25k for that.
Ok then let's go with lower values.
10k
15k
20k
25k
That's what pugs are currently hitting lol. If you wanna implement dps check and they are required to pull 20k on dummy that doesn't move and no mechanics to deal with then in actual dungeon t6he will be doing 10k lmao. Sounds about right.
Prof_Bawbag wrote: »"I'm happy to teach people mechanics"
There's a sentence that makes me shudder. A huge number of people who spout this lack the social ability to pull it off. I've heard a lot during my nigh on 6 years in this game. The folk handing out that advice wondering why the person they were trying to "teach" told them to go shove their head up a dead bear's ass or completely ignored them. Always themselves blowing their own trumpet when it comes to how good they are when dealing with others because others won't.
The advice isn't even aimed at me, yet it gets my back up too most of the time. There's a fine line between being a patronizing gobshite and being good at communicating with folk. Half the people who claim to be happy to explain things to others only spout that when outside of dungeons. They're usually the first ones to bail or lose their rag. Not saying all, because there are some damn decent folk in this game, but the majority who take to forums or in game chat and claim to be a shining beacon of reason are anything but. Quite frankly, I'd rather be stuck in vet content with someone struggling to hit the dizzy heights than some of the folk that participate in these sort of conversations. Suck any iota of enjoyment out of the game for most folk. Folk who do the most complaining should use pre mades exclusively and leave the rest of us be.
SilverBride wrote: »I voted no because I had flashbacks of WoW, and having to complete solo simulated dungeon fights before you could queue for random higher level dungeons. It was stressful and I think they finally did away with the requirement.
BUT... I would love to see something similar here. Not as a requirement, but as a way for players to guage what level dungeon they are ready for. It could also help players to train for boss mechanics similar to what they will encounter.
LordSarevok wrote: »LordSarevok wrote: »CaffeinatedMayhem wrote: »A nanny state is not needed. Players need to have a decent estimate of their own capabilities, and/or communicate with the group they are stuck with. If it's your first time in a dungeon admit you don't know the mechanics - if you do not want to teach a noob, don't kick them - YOU leave. If you only want to run with certain level/skill of players - don't queue.
People being decent humans would go a long way.
You cannot teach a player to be a good dps in a dungeon run. It's literally impossible. It takes gear, skill, and a practiced rotation to be good.
You can teach a player to be a better DPS/tank/healer in a dungeon run. Maybe even teach them to be good if you have enough patience. All it takes it a person willing to learn and a person willing to teach. You can't teach them to be great but you can help them on their way to getting good. If a player is simply spamming heavy attack you can ask what skills they have on their bar and suggest they hit a few in between each heavy and that will help get things going the right direction. You need to find out where they are at and help them to the next step instead of overwhelming them with a bunch of stuff they are not ready for.
We have a player in our guild that likes to help new players but he panics them because he starts talking about keeping procs up and what gear works best with what skills before they even know to bar swap.
With a random in a dungeon if you see they are struggling ask a question or two and then give some simple advice if they seem open to it. When you get through the run (or when you decide it isn't going to happen) spend a bit of time with them explaining what comes next compared to where they are at. Don't go straight to end game hard mode speed no death set-ups. Keep it closer to where they are. It doesn't take long at all with someone who wants to learn to get a noticeable improvement in a really short time.
When you get those players that refuse to learn that is when you leave the group.
So in the dungeon run, I'm to help farm actual dps gear, help level the good dps abilities up, and help them practice the rotation till they become semi proficient? Sounds reasonable... Should only take 2 to 3 weeks.
LordSarevok wrote: »LordSarevok wrote: »CaffeinatedMayhem wrote: »A nanny state is not needed. Players need to have a decent estimate of their own capabilities, and/or communicate with the group they are stuck with. If it's your first time in a dungeon admit you don't know the mechanics - if you do not want to teach a noob, don't kick them - YOU leave. If you only want to run with certain level/skill of players - don't queue.
People being decent humans would go a long way.
You cannot teach a player to be a good dps in a dungeon run. It's literally impossible. It takes gear, skill, and a practiced rotation to be good.
You can teach a player to be a better DPS/tank/healer in a dungeon run. Maybe even teach them to be good if you have enough patience. All it takes it a person willing to learn and a person willing to teach. You can't teach them to be great but you can help them on their way to getting good. If a player is simply spamming heavy attack you can ask what skills they have on their bar and suggest they hit a few in between each heavy and that will help get things going the right direction. You need to find out where they are at and help them to the next step instead of overwhelming them with a bunch of stuff they are not ready for.
We have a player in our guild that likes to help new players but he panics them because he starts talking about keeping procs up and what gear works best with what skills before they even know to bar swap.
With a random in a dungeon if you see they are struggling ask a question or two and then give some simple advice if they seem open to it. When you get through the run (or when you decide it isn't going to happen) spend a bit of time with them explaining what comes next compared to where they are at. Don't go straight to end game hard mode speed no death set-ups. Keep it closer to where they are. It doesn't take long at all with someone who wants to learn to get a noticeable improvement in a really short time.
When you get those players that refuse to learn that is when you leave the group.
So in the dungeon run, I'm to help farm actual dps gear, help level the good dps abilities up, and help them practice the rotation till they become semi proficient? Sounds reasonable... Should only take 2 to 3 weeks.
Yeah that is what I said.
Actually I said almost the exact opposite of that. You are talking about making them great, not good. I said look at where they are at and help them go to the next step. If they are in mismatched gear suggest easily obtainable gear so they will be better on their next run. Maybe explain the benefits of equipping a full set. You don't have to go help them farm it but put the idea in their head. If you are in a guild that helps new or inexperienced players invite them to join. Ask them where they put their attribute points. A simple adjustment there can make a big difference. Of course it will not help the current run but it will help for future runs. That is the goal of helping inexperienced players. Making them better for next time.
A big problem is in normal dungeons when a player says this is my first time we might wait for them to do the quest but rarely do we take the time to explain mechanics because we can burn right through them. I don't see that changing though.
Basically I am saying point them in the right direction.
This is not needed because Zos already gives us the ability to set requirements for those we group with if we so choose.
Not getting into the statement in the OP blatantly biases the poll. BTW, I have something else in mind but this thread was only designed to speak to one specific topic.
LordSarevok wrote: »LordSarevok wrote: »LordSarevok wrote: »CaffeinatedMayhem wrote: »A nanny state is not needed. Players need to have a decent estimate of their own capabilities, and/or communicate with the group they are stuck with. If it's your first time in a dungeon admit you don't know the mechanics - if you do not want to teach a noob, don't kick them - YOU leave. If you only want to run with certain level/skill of players - don't queue.
People being decent humans would go a long way.
You cannot teach a player to be a good dps in a dungeon run. It's literally impossible. It takes gear, skill, and a practiced rotation to be good.
You can teach a player to be a better DPS/tank/healer in a dungeon run. Maybe even teach them to be good if you have enough patience. All it takes it a person willing to learn and a person willing to teach. You can't teach them to be great but you can help them on their way to getting good. If a player is simply spamming heavy attack you can ask what skills they have on their bar and suggest they hit a few in between each heavy and that will help get things going the right direction. You need to find out where they are at and help them to the next step instead of overwhelming them with a bunch of stuff they are not ready for.
We have a player in our guild that likes to help new players but he panics them because he starts talking about keeping procs up and what gear works best with what skills before they even know to bar swap.
With a random in a dungeon if you see they are struggling ask a question or two and then give some simple advice if they seem open to it. When you get through the run (or when you decide it isn't going to happen) spend a bit of time with them explaining what comes next compared to where they are at. Don't go straight to end game hard mode speed no death set-ups. Keep it closer to where they are. It doesn't take long at all with someone who wants to learn to get a noticeable improvement in a really short time.
When you get those players that refuse to learn that is when you leave the group.
So in the dungeon run, I'm to help farm actual dps gear, help level the good dps abilities up, and help them practice the rotation till they become semi proficient? Sounds reasonable... Should only take 2 to 3 weeks.
Yeah that is what I said.
Actually I said almost the exact opposite of that. You are talking about making them great, not good. I said look at where they are at and help them go to the next step. If they are in mismatched gear suggest easily obtainable gear so they will be better on their next run. Maybe explain the benefits of equipping a full set. You don't have to go help them farm it but put the idea in their head. If you are in a guild that helps new or inexperienced players invite them to join. Ask them where they put their attribute points. A simple adjustment there can make a big difference. Of course it will not help the current run but it will help for future runs. That is the goal of helping inexperienced players. Making them better for next time.
A big problem is in normal dungeons when a player says this is my first time we might wait for them to do the quest but rarely do we take the time to explain mechanics because we can burn right through them. I don't see that changing though.
Basically I am saying point them in the right direction.
And how exactly does that help the group today? 3 people have now wasted their time, because someone couldn't be bothered to do even a modicum of research.
GrimTheReaper45 wrote: »Vet dungeons need to be more pug friendly.
Nomadic_Atmoran wrote: »If you want that kind of toxic in your gameplay there are other MMOs that will gladly accommodate you.