rapids change

Elvenheart · August 2020

mareeelb16_ESO wrote: »

I went into BG, having never really gotten into them, to see about AP, as expected I was blasted for being a newb and a no load in the group tonight, very unpleasant experience. I went into Cyrodill only to find myself now playing horse riding simulator, this change has significantly impacted game-play for low level toons in a very negative way.

I don't think that anyone should be feeling apologetic for joining BGs to level rapids right now....

We warned of the consequences and pointed out the flaws before it went live. They ignored the logic and pushed it through anyway...

Time for us to do what we have to to regain the skill.. And tough for any pvp'ers who feel inconvenienced by our presence. We have as much right as anyone to be there and they should be expecting an influx of relatively inexperienced people on their teams.

Over the past few days I was one of these inexperienced people in battlegrounds. Sometimes I was lucky enough to be randomly placed with other players who could make up for my poor attempts to help, or ended up playing against teams who had players even more poorly equipped for pvp than I was, so we came in first or second place several times. Other times, I ended up on the losing team, and I am sure we lost at least in part due to my less than stellar performance. Some of those times some players said pretty nasty things in group chat. These experiences were no fun for me, and I’m sure they were not fun either for the players on my team. All because ZO$ wouldn’t listen to all of the people on the forums who for weeks have been begging them to handle this some other way. And now, I have several more characters I have to do this with to get rapid maneuvers back.

zaria · August 2020

Elvenheart wrote: »

mareeelb16_ESO wrote: »

I went into BG, having never really gotten into them, to see about AP, as expected I was blasted for being a newb and a no load in the group tonight, very unpleasant experience. I went into Cyrodill only to find myself now playing horse riding simulator, this change has significantly impacted game-play for low level toons in a very negative way.

I don't think that anyone should be feeling apologetic for joining BGs to level rapids right now....

We warned of the consequences and pointed out the flaws before it went live. They ignored the logic and pushed it through anyway...

Time for us to do what we have to to regain the skill.. And tough for any pvp'ers who feel inconvenienced by our presence. We have as much right as anyone to be there and they should be expecting an influx of relatively inexperienced people on their teams.

Over the past few days I was one of these inexperienced people in battlegrounds. Sometimes I was lucky enough to be randomly placed with other players who could make up for my poor attempts to help, or ended up playing against teams who had players even more poorly equipped for pvp than I was, so we came in first or second place several times. Other times, I ended up on the losing team, and I am sure we lost at least in part due to my less than stellar performance. Some of those times some players said pretty nasty things in group chat. These experiences were no fun for me, and I’m sure they were not fun either for the players on my team. All because ZO$ wouldn’t listen to all of the people on the forums who for weeks have been begging them to handle this some other way. And now, I have several more characters I have to do this with to get rapid maneuvers back.

This is why I don't do BG much outside on char, I will mostly end up ruin the experience for other.
However any warm body is welcome in an zerg group and you can get into fun stuff like then our pretty small group held an outpost for half an hour against another zerg, hint don't let your pets run into the breach it just let the other side charge up ulimate, no issue running with an alt I would not do vCoA1 with.
Well on one of these alts I solo defended an keep while EP and DC fought each other on the outer wall, I provided artillery support for both sides, then the other left they repaired the gate so I did counter siege on one who tried to break the door from inside

At the end one of the sided won and they took the keep, I ran away with 200K AP as all my artillery support was counted as solo kills, I selected to stay because I just needed 1000 AP to get 25K for an geode.
No this is not something you expect to see but it was an glorified bank alt but even an pvp build would not do better.

Dark_Lord_Kuro · August 2020

nukk3r wrote: »

SydneyGrey wrote: »

nukk3r wrote: »

SydneyGrey wrote: »

They only care about PvP, dungeons and trials. They really don't care about players who like to make a dozen alts for fun, or who roleplay. They want to force everyone to do PvP even if they don't want to. Looks like they've ignored all the suggestions people gave them that would work better for everyone.
They could have just added Rapids as the first unlock in the Soul Magic line, but noooo ....

PvP, dungeons and trials are the primary activities of this game, making alts and roleplay are not, that's why we get new dungeons and trials every patch. The majority of players create characters to actually achieve something in the game, no wonder the devs would make stuff convenient for them. Hanging out in Riften inn is irrelevant to any progression in the game.

Your way of playing is not any more valid than anyone else's way of playing, so stop with the condescending attitude. You are not more important than anyone else.
I don't do roleplay, but I DO enjoy making a lot of alts for fun. This change just killed my desire to make more characters.

I never said that PvE/P players are more important, I said that they play the actual game the way it was designed, not spend the time chatting to other players. Why these changes should mean anything to roleplayers is beyond me.

Ratinira wrote: »

nukk3r wrote: »

PvP, dungeons and trials are the primary activities of this game, making alts and roleplay are not, that's why we get new dungeons and trials every patch.

And that is why all in-game zones are pvp zones, and we are leaving pvp only to enter dungeon or trial... Oh, wait...

If that is how *you* play that does not mean everyone else play that way. And there are alot of other locations in game except Cyrodiil, dungeons and trials. It is easily seen just by opening the map

That's how everyone I know plays this game. Do people really do the same zone quests over and over with dozens of toons?

Yes i defenitly do the same quest over more than 1 character

Its not that different than doing the same dungeon over and over again, you may even argue that there is more variety at doing all the quest over again than dungeon as by the time you have redone all quest you will have redone all dungeon many time

nukk3r · August 2020

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

nukk3r wrote: »

SydneyGrey wrote: »

nukk3r wrote: »

SydneyGrey wrote: »

They only care about PvP, dungeons and trials. They really don't care about players who like to make a dozen alts for fun, or who roleplay. They want to force everyone to do PvP even if they don't want to. Looks like they've ignored all the suggestions people gave them that would work better for everyone.
They could have just added Rapids as the first unlock in the Soul Magic line, but noooo ....

PvP, dungeons and trials are the primary activities of this game, making alts and roleplay are not, that's why we get new dungeons and trials every patch. The majority of players create characters to actually achieve something in the game, no wonder the devs would make stuff convenient for them. Hanging out in Riften inn is irrelevant to any progression in the game.

Your way of playing is not any more valid than anyone else's way of playing, so stop with the condescending attitude. You are not more important than anyone else.
I don't do roleplay, but I DO enjoy making a lot of alts for fun. This change just killed my desire to make more characters.

I never said that PvE/P players are more important, I said that they play the actual game the way it was designed, not spend the time chatting to other players. Why these changes should mean anything to roleplayers is beyond me.

Ratinira wrote: »

nukk3r wrote: »

PvP, dungeons and trials are the primary activities of this game, making alts and roleplay are not, that's why we get new dungeons and trials every patch.

And that is why all in-game zones are pvp zones, and we are leaving pvp only to enter dungeon or trial... Oh, wait...

If that is how *you* play that does not mean everyone else play that way. And there are alot of other locations in game except Cyrodiil, dungeons and trials. It is easily seen just by opening the map

That's how everyone I know plays this game. Do people really do the same zone quests over and over with dozens of toons?

Yes i defenitly do the same quest over more than 1 character

Its not that different than doing the same dungeon over and over again, you may even argue that there is more variety at doing all the quest over again than dungeon as by the time you have redone all quest you will have redone all dungeon many time

You can do hard mode, no death, speedrun, and different challenges. You can go with different people, different amount of people, play a different role. The way that you do the dungeon differs from group to group. Also there are different ways to cheese through mechanics. The quests are linear and have the same predictable outcome every time.

Luckylancer · August 2020

Donny_Vito wrote: »

It's a trade-off. I've met Stam characters that despise PvP and were gimped because they could not use Vigor. They'll be very happy with this change because all they have to do is just enter PvP and they'll have it unlocked. So yeah, like everything else, pros and cons.

Killing a proffesor will save a lot of oxygen too. Just point of view differs.

wolonggong · August 2020

nukk3r wrote: »

Well, maybe these crowds of noobs will learn something and become interested in PvP. I, for myself, was never toxic to new players in PvP and, contrary to the popular belief, many PvP'ers aren't either.

Nothing will "make" people like PvP. All this change has done is *** people off and forcing someone to do something to get a thing they already had and SHOULD have will just make them hate PvP and PvPers more because they are being blamed for it.

Someone that PvPs all the time should not even be getting a speed boost that helps them even more. Its those just starting out that need it for more than a few reasons all of them listed already by others.

Believe me, if there is a way to get this easy, I will do it even if it means just getting into a match to stand there and lose, I hate PvP with a passion almost as much as I hate long travel times in a game that I am playing to have FUN, not travel.

nukk3r · August 2020

wolonggong wrote: »

nukk3r wrote: »

Well, maybe these crowds of noobs will learn something and become interested in PvP. I, for myself, was never toxic to new players in PvP and, contrary to the popular belief, many PvP'ers aren't either.

Nothing will "make" people like PvP. All this change has done is *** people off and forcing someone to do something to get a thing they already had and SHOULD have will just make them hate PvP and PvPers more because they are being blamed for it.

This "should" part sounds like entitlement to me. Just because you had something for free, doesn't mean it was your right. Consider it a freebie from ZOS, they had all rights to recall it and they gave you a five weeks notice about their intention to revert it.

You agreed to the terms of service when you installed the game.
"ZeniMax reserves the right to change and update Content without notice to You. ZeniMax also reserves the right to refuse Your request(s) to acquire Content, and to limit or block any request to acquire Content, including, but not limited to, Downloadable Content and Game Mods, for any reason."

johnebrown · August 2020

Floppyjo wrote: »

WoodenHeart wrote: »

I've lost rapids on 16 of 18 characters, and don't have the will to continue with this game. I feel like I'm trying to sprint in molasses now... and I refuse to play a game that lets me acquire skills, get used to using them EVERY DAY for YEARS, and then removes them for no apparent reason. Bye ESO.

This is exactly the same situation that occurred with World of Warcraft when they removed access to flight a few years ago, putting it behind a 1/12 year long reputation grinding time-gate system, that has now become the default offering in all WoW expansions. It was something that people had in the game, that they then had removed by Blizzard because they didn't want you to fly directly to quest NPC's they wanted to make you run around the same mountain on all your alts for 1 1/2 years to drain every second out of you on subscription revenue, LITERALLY, exactly the same move. It was also the same reason that I broke my WoW subscription and why I continue to only play for a month here or a month there, everything in WoW is time-gated, you can literally do 1 years worth of expansion content on a fresh alt in just over a month in WoW, I've timed it. The money you pay and time wasted just isn't worth it.

I believe it was the beginning of the massive subscription loss cascade that keeps rolling from expansion to expansion now, they removed the freedom to play by gating everything behind a reputation grind. Looks like ZoS want to go the same way ...

This is why I canceled & will redo my main account as month-to-month instead of keeping the six month sub I had. If things get too bad I won't feel so bad about walking away then.

johnebrown · August 2020

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

heaven13 wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

joerginger wrote: »

[They want to "persuade" us non-PvP-lovers with alts to buy the Assault skill line we unlocked on our main character on 17 alt characters. Yes, the riding lessons for newer characters are the other obvious choice, but I believe their monetizing engineers want even more right now. The skill lines are so ridiculously expensive, they promise ZoS an absurdly huge amount of money of course, so we're talking about a huge amount of money they look forward to grabbing by slowing our fully leveled characters down to the crawl ZoS considers normal speed.

Actually, those of us complaining can't buy the Assault skill line "right now" even if we want to.

If they change the rules so that you can buy that line without making Grand Overlord on another character, that will be very strong evidence for your theory. But as of now, your suggested explanation is almost the only one that can be ruled out.

Alliance War Skills at rank 10 =\= Grand Overlord.

Assault and Support 10 are unlocked at alliance War rank 13 (which requires a total of just over 1 mil AP). Grand Overlord requires almost 61 mil to get to rank 49. While I don't agree with the change, even though all my alts still have rapids, let's not overexaggerate the issue with dramatizations because it doesn't help your position.

Edit to add actual reference link. UESP is your friend.

I didn't realize that the Alliance skill line worked differently from, say, Undaunted, which you can't buy until you've maxed it out, even above the level where you've unlocked all the skills. Thanks for the clarification.

Thanks for the clarification. Many of us non-PVPers wouldn't know that as none of our other lines work like that.

johnebrown · August 2020

Serude wrote: »

Just want to say this is the dumbest change. Now I have to to 4 hours of pvp to make my new character move faster through the world bc stam people dont have a heal. *** ***!!!!!!!

That they didn't have a heal was a major issue for a long, long time, and it was a survivability issue.
I didn't have an issue when them fixing that. I have an issue with them borking rapids to do it!
There were lots of other solutions offered by many of the people in the forum.

4 hours is an irritant I'm sure, but at least you learned this *before* you made a gazillion alts that now seem to crawl.

johnebrown · August 2020

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

abigfishy wrote: »

So we PVE players should all look forward to many hours of hideous abuse, name calling and toxic insults one EACH character just so we can actually travel about at a decent speed on a new character? Who thought this was a good idea?

This is the same for PvP player that hate PvE one shots from bosses and PvE logic is not fun for PvP players. The toxic and ohh look I was kicked from group for not knowing City of Ash happens. PvP player that do as little PvE as possible face this when they are forced to PvE for bind on pick up gear.

tmbrinks wrote: »

Donny_Vito wrote: »

Eliahnus wrote: »

L_Nici wrote: »

It is such a minimal effort to get to the needed ranks in Assault. I never cared which was first had both anyway in less than 30 minutes.

Quite the opposite. For someone who does not PvP, rapids cannot be gained anymore.

Correct, which is also true about a lot of other skills... purge, barrier, vigor (at least it was), warhorn, etc...

I understand, people want to go as fast as possible and limit the exposure to ZoS environment, but pretty much like every other change its a learn to adapt issue. And let's not act like the crown store alternative for buying horse speed wasn't taken into consideration here, as there is obviously more cause to buy them now.

It is the first time they have actually directly taken away a skill when they made changes like this. Previously it was just "locked" but was still able to be put onto your bars until you took the skill point out yourself by respeccing.

It was unprecedented, a change from past practice.

Why was this one different? Because there's a way to monetize it.

I did PvP on a new alt and LITERALLY got rank 5 in like three hours that’s nothing compared to the mindless PvE grinding I have to do for powers, passives and gear. PvE is aggressively unfun.

I miss the point - what PVP ability was taken away from you? That's what the complaint is, not just that it's hard to get, but we already had it and they took it.... away. sniff.

johnebrown · August 2020

JoeCapricorn wrote: »

@ZOS_RichLambert

The developers should read what the players are saying.

I've posted numerous times over the past hour because I had just discovered this nasty little change (I wasn't aware of it being in the PTS because I don't use the PTS)

The way I play ESO is primarily as a trader and crafter. I also like to level new characters in my own way. I do this by finding all of the skyshards which is made easier with Rapid Maneuvers (although I do spend some time training their mount skill to around 30 before actually sending them off into the wilderness.

It is such a habitual part of my play that I have it on slot 5 on ALL characters on all bars unless I am playing them for more than casual reasons. It has been this way for the entirety of the life of the game, and I have been playing since the beta of November 2013. I love this game. I don't want to leave this game. I need this game, actually, to use as an escape from reality, and reality right now is a frightening place. The game that @ZOS_RichLambert and @ZOS_MattFiror created allowed me to survive episodes of severe depression, and in spite of all of the ***-ups I have always had the impression that the devs truly do listen to the playerbase. When the nerf on light attacks was proposed, they listened to the negative feedback. I would actually RATHER have that instead of the Rapid Maneuvers being maneuvered around.

I also understand the practical reason why Rapids were stolen from us: Vigor is easier to get.

So I propose a few changes that could be the best of both worlds: Rapids gets its old spot back. Vigor is second. Vigor requires Assault 3.

Or, Vigor and Rapids both require Assault 2.

Or Rapids stays in its current spot and requires Assault 3.

Assault 5 is just out of reach for some of my characters because they do not have the skill points to allocate to proper combat and armor skills! They are mules that only do crafting writs, that's all. But Assault 3 might be possible - some hand-me-down gear, no CP campaign, doing some of the town quests, or getting in a PVP group just to get Assault 3, that is doable. That can be done in a day. I won't have the spoons to do all 12 of my characters at the same time. Depression does not work that way. It would feel more like a chore. Not something fun.

Best way is to return Rapids to first spot and have Vigor easier to get. But not have Rapids require Assault 5, that is ridiculous and it is out of reach. It impacts a very basic part of my gameplay that is shared across all 12 of my characters, getting on a mount and riding with rapid maneuvers, even short distances to turn in writs. Sometimes I have to go to the bank NPC to sell stuff on a guild trader (although Vivec has a bank right there with all of the crafting stations)

I hope you will listen once more, just like in the past, and make the right decision to restore Rapid Maneuver.

I feel your pain brother - I play much the same as you, and I have 54 toons. About 48 now do not rapids anymore.

johnebrown · August 2020

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

Unsubscribe. Hit em in the pocket book where it counts!

I did - with three accounts no less (2 were 6 month subs). Though I will probably keep one, but def month- to-month as this has caused me to lose faith in their judgement. If they ruin the experience too much then at least I'll only lose the 1 month fee.

johnebrown · August 2020

DarcyMardin wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno, @ZOS_RichLambert,

Foxhearted wrote: »

I never considered to actually quit the game until now.
There have been some questionable changes, but this is the one that takes the cake.
Like... seriously?

Same. Closed beta person here, 3 accounts, dozens of characters on both NA and EU servers, *all* with rapids on their bars, even when they are so low level they have only 1 bar. A Bosmer nightblade from 2014 who is low level and strictly a crafting writ alt has been using rapids since 2014!

This change has had a HUGE quality of life impact on my gameplay, and for the first time ever, I feel like taking all the money I spend every year on multiple subscriptions and way-too-many crowns and walking away.

Try to at least keep one account. They may come to their senses or make it right somehow.

johnebrown · August 2020

mareeelb16_ESO wrote: »

I went into BG, having never really gotten into them, to see about AP, as expected I was blasted for being a newb and a no load in the group tonight, very unpleasant experience. I went into Cyrodill only to find myself now playing horse riding simulator, this change has significantly impacted game-play for low level toons in a very negative way.

I don't think that anyone should be feeling apologetic for joining BGs to level rapids right now....

We warned of the consequences and pointed out the flaws before it went live. They ignored the logic and pushed it through anyway...

Time for us to do what we have to to regain the skill.. And tough for any pvp'ers who feel inconvenienced by our presence. We have as much right as anyone to be there and they should be expecting an influx of relatively inexperienced people on their teams.

Please don't generalize - I'm def not PVP but I know a lot that are really nice & quite helpful. I understand how you feel, but In the end that does not help any of us.

Emmagoldman · August 2020

It's because for years, there were hard core pvers complaining about having to do the looooooong grind, aka a couple of hours, to get rapids. So this is what bitching gets. So for sure, pvers that want rapids to zip around, collect skyshards ect are impacted. It's almost like if peoples problems, aren't really problems at all......

ZOS_GregoryV · August 2020

Greetings all,

After review, we would like to remind everyone that all posts are to be kept civil, constructive, and within the guidelines of the rules we have in place. If there may be any questions in regards to those rules. please review them here.

Thank you for your understanding,
-Greg-

johnebrown · August 2020

nukk3r wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

abigfishy wrote: »

So we PVE players should all look forward to many hours of hideous abuse, name calling and toxic insults one EACH character just so we can actually travel about at a decent speed on a new character? Who thought this was a good idea?

This is the same for PvP player that hate PvE one shots from bosses and PvE logic is not fun for PvP players. The toxic and ohh look I was kicked from group for not knowing City of Ash happens. PvP player that do as little PvE as possible face this when they are forced to PvE for bind on pick up gear.

tmbrinks wrote: »

Donny_Vito wrote: »

Eliahnus wrote: »

L_Nici wrote: »

It is such a minimal effort to get to the needed ranks in Assault. I never cared which was first had both anyway in less than 30 minutes.

Quite the opposite. For someone who does not PvP, rapids cannot be gained anymore.

Correct, which is also true about a lot of other skills... purge, barrier, vigor (at least it was), warhorn, etc...

I understand, people want to go as fast as possible and limit the exposure to ZoS environment, but pretty much like every other change its a learn to adapt issue. And let's not act like the crown store alternative for buying horse speed wasn't taken into consideration here, as there is obviously more cause to buy them now.

It is the first time they have actually directly taken away a skill when they made changes like this. Previously it was just "locked" but was still able to be put onto your bars until you took the skill point out yourself by respeccing.

It was unprecedented, a change from past practice.

Why was this one different? Because there's a way to monetize it.

I did PvP on a new alt and LITERALLY got rank 5 in like three hours that’s nothing compared to the mindless PvE grinding I have to do for powers, passives and gear. PvE is aggressively unfun.

You're preaching to the wrong crowd. Judging by the comments I've read so far, these people don't seem to do dungeons either. Otherwise we would've heard from them when ZOS destroyed classes, races and popular sets every single patch.

I do & I have - and I would be right now about what they did to new moon (since I made a ton of them), and what they did beyond that I haven't really looked because I can only focus on complaining about one thing at a time. Perhaps later I'll see my folly.

johnebrown · August 2020

Sgrug wrote: »

nukk3r wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

abigfishy wrote: »

So we PVE players should all look forward to many hours of hideous abuse, name calling and toxic insults one EACH character just so we can actually travel about at a decent speed on a new character? Who thought this was a good idea?

This is the same for PvP player that hate PvE one shots from bosses and PvE logic is not fun for PvP players. The toxic and ohh look I was kicked from group for not knowing City of Ash happens. PvP player that do as little PvE as possible face this when they are forced to PvE for bind on pick up gear.

tmbrinks wrote: »

Donny_Vito wrote: »

Eliahnus wrote: »

L_Nici wrote: »

It is such a minimal effort to get to the needed ranks in Assault. I never cared which was first had both anyway in less than 30 minutes.

Quite the opposite. For someone who does not PvP, rapids cannot be gained anymore.

Correct, which is also true about a lot of other skills... purge, barrier, vigor (at least it was), warhorn, etc...

I understand, people want to go as fast as possible and limit the exposure to ZoS environment, but pretty much like every other change its a learn to adapt issue. And let's not act like the crown store alternative for buying horse speed wasn't taken into consideration here, as there is obviously more cause to buy them now.

It is the first time they have actually directly taken away a skill when they made changes like this. Previously it was just "locked" but was still able to be put onto your bars until you took the skill point out yourself by respeccing.

It was unprecedented, a change from past practice.

Why was this one different? Because there's a way to monetize it.

I did PvP on a new alt and LITERALLY got rank 5 in like three hours that’s nothing compared to the mindless PvE grinding I have to do for powers, passives and gear. PvE is aggressively unfun.

You're preaching to the wrong crowd. Judging by the comments I've read so far, these people don't seem to do dungeons either. Otherwise we would've heard from them when ZOS destroyed classes, races and popular sets every single patch.

Because others are not posting more about sets the opinion on rapids here does not matter?

I spent 6 hours in Cyridoll yesterday and I am only half way into level 4. A big problem was constantly trying to catch up to fights always watching other players run past me and those who are trying to grind rapids. I do not wish to spend the next 119 hours (7 hours x 17 toons) just to get rapids back, 3 weeks of game play (120 hours is 3 - 40 hr weeks) just running around hoping to catch up to a fight IS NOT FUN AND NOT ENGAGING. This is from a player who farms constantly. I am use to boredom but adding frustration into boredom is a recipe for disaster and this is what we have now.

If your not into PVP, do BGs - it seems to be the quickest way.

SteveCampsOut · August 2020

TESO_sb wrote: »

PC/Mac Patch Notes v6.1.5 - Stonethorn & Update 27
Vigor: This ability is now first in the skill line to unlock, and has swapped places with Rapid Maneuvers in efforts to help builds focused on Stamina to have a healthier leveling experience. Previous XP gained in both of these skills will be retained, but if your Assault skill line is too low to obtain the 3rd skill, you will have to level it in order to gain access to Rapid Maneuvers again.

It's a lie. Somehow I reached level 5, but the transformation that was chosen earlier and had rank 4 is now rank 1 and must be pumped again.

I'm not sure it's a lie. Several of my alts who are still at rank 4 didn't have their points refunded and the skill is still active but shows a white padlock icon imprinted over it. I was even able to add skill points to morph it on a couple of alts so far. The Icon still has the white padlock and still says it unlocks at Assault Rank 5 but it's working on them. Not all my alts unfortunately have this. I spent the last two days getting Assault 5 on one who lost all access to his rapids.

lucky_Sage · August 2020

It only takes 3 hours of BG’s to get from 1 to 10 Ava skill line. It takes way longer for a PvPers to lvl up undaunted. Not the only one force to do somthing you dont like

johnebrown · August 2020

Defilted wrote: »

I bet with just daily rewards AP you will get close to unlocking it.

I am not a trials person but if I had to do one enough times to unlock a skill it would be a no brainer.

No - the daily rewards give crap AP. You may want to do them for gear, but not AP. I know very little about PVP but I tried raising my AP once doing dailies and it clear that was not the way to go.

johnebrown · August 2020

[/quote]

You can do hard mode, no death, speedrun, and different challenges. You can go with different people, different amount of people, play a different role. The way that you do the dungeon differs from group to group. Also there are different ways to cheese through mechanics. The quests are linear and have the same predictable outcome every time.[/quote]

Valid point. Still I've done it many, many times as it gives a lot of sp for the time spent once you know how to fly through it.

ZaroktheImmortal · August 2020

Here's the thing rapid changes isn't going to help them in any way. It helps new players get into the game encourages new toons since even though you have a slow mount there is rapids. These changes will make it harder for new people and for new toons and make it to the point of why make more toons if we have to go through yet another grind. Not to mention you really need rapids for getting around cyrodil which is the main place people go to level alliance rank. I doubt many will pay 3 K crowns for alliance rank on all their toons. It won't make them more money it'll just discourage their playerbase from making toons or new people from getting into it. Making terrible decisions like this is only the kind of thing that will encourage killing your game. And no I'm not saying it'll be the end of ESO but it certainly will make it harder. The best way for them to both profit and keep a healthy playerbase is to make it easier for people to get into the game.

johnebrown · August 2020

nukk3r wrote: »

wolonggong wrote: »

nukk3r wrote: »

Well, maybe these crowds of noobs will learn something and become interested in PvP. I, for myself, was never toxic to new players in PvP and, contrary to the popular belief, many PvP'ers aren't either.

Nothing will "make" people like PvP. All this change has done is *** people off and forcing someone to do something to get a thing they already had and SHOULD have will just make them hate PvP and PvPers more because they are being blamed for it.

This "should" part sounds like entitlement to me. Just because you had something for free, doesn't mean it was your right. Consider it a freebie from ZOS, they had all rights to recall it and they gave you a five weeks notice about their intention to revert it.

You agreed to the terms of service when you installed the game.
"ZeniMax reserves the right to change and update Content without notice to You. ZeniMax also reserves the right to refuse Your request(s) to acquire Content, and to limit or block any request to acquire Content, including, but not limited to, Downloadable Content and Game Mods, for any reason."

What they can do, and what someone feels they should do is probably never going to match up. Entitlement? I don't think so. It seemed to me the op was merely saying what they thought should be done to be fair. Contracts aren't always fair - it's usually a take it or leave it type of thing, and when I agree to one I can only hope that I actually understood all the semantics in the legalize.

ZaroktheImmortal · August 2020

johnebrown wrote: »

nukk3r wrote: »

wolonggong wrote: »

nukk3r wrote: »

Well, maybe these crowds of noobs will learn something and become interested in PvP. I, for myself, was never toxic to new players in PvP and, contrary to the popular belief, many PvP'ers aren't either.

Nothing will "make" people like PvP. All this change has done is *** people off and forcing someone to do something to get a thing they already had and SHOULD have will just make them hate PvP and PvPers more because they are being blamed for it.

This "should" part sounds like entitlement to me. Just because you had something for free, doesn't mean it was your right. Consider it a freebie from ZOS, they had all rights to recall it and they gave you a five weeks notice about their intention to revert it.

You agreed to the terms of service when you installed the game.
"ZeniMax reserves the right to change and update Content without notice to You. ZeniMax also reserves the right to refuse Your request(s) to acquire Content, and to limit or block any request to acquire Content, including, but not limited to, Downloadable Content and Game Mods, for any reason."

What they can do, and what someone feels they should do is probably never going to match up. Entitlement? I don't think so. It seemed to me the op was merely saying what they thought should be done to be fair. Contracts aren't always fair - it's usually a take it or leave it type of thing, and when I agree to one I can only hope that I actually understood all the semantics in the legalize.

Exactly. It's not entitlement. 'here's something you had in your game to make it easier to get around cause we set up a system where each person starts with a really slow mount speed. Oh you liked having that? Too bad. Oh you're just entitiled we have the right to take it away from you' no here's the thing we're the customers. We pay them. Without the playerbase they wouldn't have a game or be making any profit so we have every right to be unhappy about these changes.

JoeCapricorn · August 2020

lucky_Sage wrote: »

It only takes 3 hours of BG’s to get from 1 to 10 Ava skill line. It takes way longer for a PvPers to lvl up undaunted. Not the only one force to do somthing you dont like

I will tell you, if I tried to do BGs on some of my alts, I'm gonna have a bad time. It is not going to take me "only 3 hours". They do not have skill points spent in weapons and armor, these are entirely crafting toons. In fact, the only thing they ever had on their bar was Rapids.

@ZOS_GregoryV Will the devs be commenting on this? That's something I'd like to see addressed. Clearly this is not helping the community, it might be best to roll out a patch later this week to reverse this change. That would be the best way to address this, instead of letting it fester.

Elvenheart · August 2020

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

Here's the thing rapid changes isn't going to help them in any way. It helps new players get into the game encourages new toons since even though you have a slow mount there is rapids. These changes will make it harder for new people and for new toons and make it to the point of why make more toons if we have to go through yet another grind. Not to mention you really need rapids for getting around cyrodil which is the main place people go to level alliance rank. I doubt many will pay 3 K crowns for alliance rank on all their toons. It won't make them more money it'll just discourage their playerbase from making toons or new people from getting into it. Making terrible decisions like this is only the kind of thing that will encourage killing your game. And no I'm not saying it'll be the end of ESO but it certainly will make it harder. The best way for them to both profit and keep a healthy playerbase is to make it easier for people to get into the game.

Hmmm, maybe you’ve hit on something. It might be that they’ve made this change because they don’t want new players in the game. Too many players may be the cause of all the lag people talk about, so driving away old players and discourage new players from playing via questionable decisions like this one and others people have mentioned may be part of their performance improvement plan. 🤣

JoeCapricorn · August 2020

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

Exactly. It's not entitlement. 'here's something you had in your game to make it easier to get around cause we set up a system where each person starts with a really slow mount speed. Oh you liked having that? Too bad. Oh you're just entitiled we have the right to take it away from you' no here's the thing we're the customers. We pay them. Without the playerbase they wouldn't have a game or be making any profit so we have every right to be unhappy about these changes.

I have been subscribed for nearly the entire history of the game and I have every chapter on top of that. I would think at the very least I should have something of a say when it comes to a major quality-of-life DOWNGRADE.

Taleof2Cities · August 2020

JoeCapricorn wrote: »

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

Exactly. It's not entitlement. 'here's something you had in your game to make it easier to get around cause we set up a system where each person starts with a really slow mount speed. Oh you liked having that? Too bad. Oh you're just entitiled we have the right to take it away from you' no here's the thing we're the customers. We pay them. Without the playerbase they wouldn't have a game or be making any profit so we have every right to be unhappy about these changes.

I have been subscribed for nearly the entire history of the game and I have every chapter on top of that. I would think at the very least I should have something of a say when it comes to a major quality-of-life DOWNGRADE.

If players want to play the “seniority” card, I can certainly do that too:

I have been subscribed for nearly the entire history of the game and I have every chapter on top of that. I would think at the very least I should have something of a say ... when I have absolutely NO PROBLEM with the change in Rapid Maneuvers.

As pointed out by other posters in the thread, PvP players have a much longer grind getting Undaunted Mettle than the walk in the park that is Assault 5.